The gloves are off this holiday for portables...which one has the upper hand?

[swlovinist]

With the holidays coming around the corner, it is time for the portables to rain out games and fill stockings. What is your favorite portable pick for the holiday and why? This is not a flame war, but just a question. For me and my opinion, I give the nod to the PSP this year. Price drop, console revision, and some sweet packins, this will finally be the year I pick one up. In the other corner you have the DS, with a BIZILLION games coming out and very solid lineup. Which one is your pick for the holidays?

[PallarAndersVisa]

DS is the way to go. Portable gaming is all about ease of use and quick access. When I had my PSP, the load times were atrocious and made it pretty much irrelevant for quick minute gaming on the go.

Plus , the DS battery life KILLLLLS the psp's.

But that new Castlevania game.......ugh. PSP wins.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Here's my standby short short on the portable gaming situation.

Nintendo has had a near-monopoly over the handheld gaming business in the US for over 15 years. Any competitor that entered the playing field with them ultimately failed.

Some were marginally successfull and managed to stay in the market long enough to make a small impact (Game Gear, LYNX) and others crashed and burned in about a years time give or take (Turbo Express, Nomad, NGPC, Game.Com, N-Gage).

Within Nintendo's monopoly of the handheld gaming industry, the consumer has been trained to not only accept, but also EMBRACE a previous-gen set of graphics, sound, and gameplay styles on each of their systems. That is to say - for each Nintendo console introduced, it's portable counterpart would have the graphical limitations of the previous console geneation from Nintendo. (Gameboy had NES quality graphics during the SNES, GBA had SNES quality graphics during the N64 / Gamecube, DS has N64 quality graphics during the Gamecube / Wii, and so on and soforth) Whether or not this is a good thing for the industry is debatable.

I own a DS and a PSP, and while the DS (the lite version anyway) is an excellent evolution of the GBA ... I'm faced with an issue every time I walk into a game store and look at the selection of software. That issue is complete and total detachment from the TYPES of games being produced for the system. There's a relative bar of quality in the games produced ... but the more I become involved with current gen consoles, the more detached I feel about DS games in general. They're either distincly of a high 16-bit quality, or struggling to produce 32-bit quality gameplay.

Since the introduction of PSP - I've found that Sony and the 3rd party developers have done something in the face of Nintendo's "standard reverse-generational portable formula" ... they've given us current gen quality console gaming on a portable. And in doing so - they've made it even harder for me to enjoy playing with my DS for anything other than puzzle/mini type games.

Now, it's NO SECRET that the DS is dominating sales worldwide ... PSP doesn't even come close ... but there are two things to take into account, Sony has proved that even without leading in sales - they've got SOME type of staying power. They've done something that Nintendo was never prepared to do - give gamers a current gen console experience on a portable (the closest thing Nintendo has done in regard to that is port GBA games to Gamecube and Wii.)

But what does all that mean?

Well, not much of anything when it comes to holiday sales. Sure, PSP's library is bigger and better than it's ever been, and it's still got some heavy hitters for the next year or so in the chamber ... but having a monopoly for as long as Nintendo has ... simply existing in the marketplace is enough to have people continue to purchase your portables in an almost Pavlovian way. (Soccer mom sees DS, buys for soccer kid. Bell rings, soccer mom salivates.)

Now, again, I'm not saying that there's not quality in the DS, it's a great great system, and the touch screen thing ... well, it doesn't do much for me (I'm WAY too anal about the condition of my systems to ENJOY rubbing a plastic thing all over the screen), but it's undeniably neat. I'm just saying that these types of things are relative, and when I hear the ever present claim that the "DS IS MORE FUN!" ... I wonder if the people saying that realize that "fun" is a relative term.

Christ, sorry, did I say "short short"? I mean "long long".

DS wins another year in the sales figures and hearts and minds of gamers worldwide, but PSP is here to stay, and I think the bar has been raised technologically-speaking for it.

[SkiDragon]

When I look at the PSP all I see are ports or games that I would rather just play on a large screen. Even a normal TV has a higher resolution than the PSP screen. I hope they make a "Super PSP" device for it.

The DS, for better or worse, has games that cannot be experienced any other way.

This didn't really answer the question but it's how I look at two systems.

[Snapple]

Doesn't matter what time of year it is. The DS has the upperhand past, present, and forever into the future as far as sales go. As far as subjective opinion on which is better, I'd also give that to the DS. The PSP is the biggest waste of money I ever purchased. I can play almost all of its good games on a Playstation 2.

I agree with Frankie that there's a detachment between the DS and next-gen consoles, but that detachment is a good thing for me, because I really don't like that many current console games. The DS for me is the best thing to come out since the PS2, and it's the library I keep adding to the most.

[boatofcar]

I think it's been proven by the best-selling titles that people play portable games for different reasons than they play console games. Sony trying to give people a console game-like experience with a portable device isn't going to make them much progress. In the end, you only ask yourself, why aren't I just playing this on a console and having a better time?

[G-Boobie]

The answer for me is the PSP, based purely on the strength of four titles being released over this holiday season: Final Fantasy Tactics, Silent Hill Origins, Castlevania Dracula X Chronicles, and Disgaea: Afternoon of Darkness. I do the bulk of my gaming on the go lately, and those four franchises are basically my four favorite franchises in the first place. That makes the question a no-brainer for me :)

Other than Phantom Hourglass, my DS hasn't seen much service as of late, more's the pity.

[S-Wind]

Hardware wise, I think the DS will beat the PSP by a significant margin. Software wise, I think the DS will multilate the PSP by an obscene margin.

And I wish people would stop including the NOMAD in the list of portables that failed to beat the Gameboy, or even in the list of failed systems. It was never meant to be anything else other than a novelty item!

[Maxx]

And I wish people would stop including the NOMAD in the list of portables that failed to beat the Gameboy, or even in the list of failed systems. It was never meant to be anything else other than a novelty item!

A novelty item I wish I could get my hands on at a decent price.

[fishsandwich]

I wonder how ye olde Game Boy Advance will do this season... it's still selling in surprisingly respectible numbers but the new software releases have slowed to a near halt and all the games you see at Best Buy and Circuit City are all kiddie games. The last new game I've seen is "Unfabulous" and I hear the next one will be Barbie. You can still get some decent games at Gamestop and the like but the GBA section is shrinking fast.

[heybtbm]

The PSP has the best games this holiday season. There is no debate. However, the DS will still sell double of whatever the PSP manages to do.

[Daria]

They've done something that Nintendo was never prepared to do - give gamers a current gen console experience on a portable... PSP is here to stay, and I think the bar has been raised technologically-speaking for it.

Are we playing the same system? The PSP thrives on ports of PSOne games.

[mailman187666]

Other than Zelda, I haven't seen many games on the DS comming out lately that I want to buy. PSP has a couple games I want from here to x-mas. Gotta get that Castlevania game today, can't wait at all.

[Aussie2B]

I agree with Daria. When I think PSP, I think PS1 games, games that LOOK like PS1 games, and games that look like suped up PS1 games. At its very BEST, the PSP can produce games that look like sub-par PS2 games, but if you're talking keeping up with home consoles, the PS2 is going to be dead soon anyway.

I'll be getting the PSP myself this holiday season. I actually like that its titles feel like PS1 games, although I can do without all the ports. Most of the games that interest me are ports, and I don't regard that as a good thing nor a system-seller. But for games that previously haven't received US releases, I can't complain too much. What's finally making me cave in, though, is the remake of the first Star Ocean. An original game would be better, but at least it's a complete overhaul and not a direct port. It comes out a couple days after Christmas in Japan, and that's precisely when I'll be picking one up. In the meantime, I've already gathered together a few other PSP games to have a small library right from the get-go.

As for the DS, it's an infinitely more appealing system, but while there are loads of games that interest me, there's nothing yet that's forcing me to get one this very instant. I'm sure I could go beyond Christmas without one, although it's always possible I might end up with one as a gift or my boyfriend might get one for himself, which in turn essentially means that I have one as well. :P

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Are we playing the same system? The PSP thrives on ports of PSOne games.

Any occurrence of PSP games looking / playing like PS1 games is no more an indication of what the system is capable of than a DS game that's crafted to play like a port of an SNES game.

I'm sorry but I have to categorically disagree with your assessment.

PS1 games do NOT look like:

Tekken 5 Dark Resurrection
Metal Gear Solid Portable Ops
Syphon Filter Dark Mirror/Logan's Shadow
Ratchet and Clank
Daxter
Burnout Dominator
Socom
Medal of Honor Heroes
Powerstone Collection
MLB 07
Smackdown vs. Raw 07
heck, even the PS1 versions of Street Fighter Alpha 3 and Darkstalkers don't have half the framerates that are present on the PSP versions
etc.
etc.
and so on and soforth

You ask if we're "playing the same system" ... but I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you don't own one at all much less play with it on a daily.

Yes, there are ports (a common strike against the system, but since this is the first time that a portable has truly been capable of handling current gen "ports", one that's to be expected) and maybe a handfull of familliar titles from the PS1 era, but it's best games can certainly stand up to their PS2 counterparts both online and off.

[MegaDrive20XX]

I tell ya one thing, that PSP is one sexy mother right now. However DS is really sporting off some solid titles this Holiday season. Yet after playing FF1 and FF Tactics remake, it's really hard to pull away. Plus when we got CastleVania & Silent Hill right around the corner, especially when they release MGS Portable Ops PLUS as well. I just got to say, that the PSP hands down, finally woke up, it's pissed, kickin' ass and it's takin' names this holiday season. Sure it's PS1 ports galore it seems on the PSP, but how many people can deny that some of those remakes are sweet? After playing MediEvil Ressurection especially.

[mailman187666]

my friend just recently bought a DS off of me about 6 months ago. He has played it non stop all the way up till I sold him a PSP and let him borrow some games for it. Comming from somebody who loves games but isn't a collector or really hardcore for that matter, he says he has not turned his DS on since he got PSP. He is more into RPGs and Grand Theft Auto games so maybe for him the system has a bit more of what he wants. He doesn't own any other systems except x-box so any PS1 ports or any remakes is giving him the chance to get what he wants without having to buy an older system.

Speaking of PS1 ports, I thought it to be a great idea to come out with Valkyrie Profile on the PSP. The only other option is to buy the $100 copy on E-bay. I never really got around to playing the original FF Tactics either. I own a copy but never really got into it until it came out for PSP. The downloadable SYmphony of the Night off the PSN is a plus, I honestly have no complaints about the ports comming to the system. They've all been re-mastered in some way and all the ones I'm not interested in, I don't buy.

[S-Wind]

A novelty item I wish I could get my hands on at a decent price.

Yup, it was an relatively expensive novelty item with a limited one-time production run.

I heard that SEGA didn't even want to make it but Toys R Us strongly encouraged them to, but I haven't been able to get any confirmation on that.

[Trebuken]

The PSP has drawn more interest for me, espeacially the hardware revision with TV-Out.

I think most of the 'ported' games count as ports, but rather remakes and seems to be irrelevant if you look at how often Nintendo has done the same thing (Final Fantasy III for example).

They're both looking good at the moment. My only concern is the quantity over quality that Nintendo (and developers) seem to be spewing across it's platforms...

[Rob2600]

Within Nintendo's monopoly of the handheld gaming industry, the consumer has been trained to not only accept, but also EMBRACE a previous-gen set of graphics, sound, and gameplay styles on each of their systems.

I've always thought that was because of battery life.

Sure, a portable console could produce cutting-edge graphics and sound, but the battery would only last two or three hours (Lynx, PSP, etc.). On the other hand, the Game Boy, Game Boy Color, Game Boy Advance, and DS have a battery life of 15 to 20 hours. Nintendo balances processing power with battery life, which is very important for portable consoles.

[Rob2600]

My only concern is the quantity over quality that Nintendo (and developers) seem to be spewing across it's platforms...

I'm shocked at the amount of people who suffer from amnesia.

Ten years ago, people favored the PlayStation because of its constant stream of new releases, even tough the vast majority of them were garbage. Now, ten years later, people are complaining about Nintendo's constant stream of new releases. Why?

[7th lutz]

For Hardware sales I have to say the ds. Contra 4 is a big game and I expect to be a big seller. Psp doesn't have a bad line up. I have to call it pretty good.

[7th lutz]

I've always thought that was because of battery life.

Sure, a portable console could produce cutting-edge graphics and sound, but the battery would only last two or three hours (Lynx, PSP, etc.). On the other hand, the Game Boy, Game Boy Color, Game Boy Advance, and DS have a battery life of 15 to 20 hours. Nintendo balances processing power with battery life, which is very important for portable consoles.

You are 100% correct. Nintendo is following what the "father of portable video games" approach to handhelds. Gunpei always believed battery life was very important and the price of a handheld system was important to.

Gunpei was why the orginal gameboy lasted as long as it did. When he was at Nintendo, the technology was not there for battery life and price back in 1993.

[le geek]

The DS will continue to sell more, but the PSP will hold it's own...

Cheers,
Ben

[7th lutz]

I'm shocked at the amount of people who suffer from amnesia.

Ten years ago, people favored the PlayStation because of its constant stream of new releases, even tough the vast majority of them were garbage. Now, ten years later, people are complaining about Nintendo's constant stream of new releases. Why?

I can't disagree with you there towards the people suffering from amnesia. You can say most game consoles that was sucessful had a lot of garbage as games like the ps 2 and the nes.

I can explain what happened 10 years ago. People looked at the good for the system only. You also have to remember 10 years ago also Sega and nintendo had a part why consumers favored sony. The playstation was a cd based system unlike Nintendo. The games were cheaper then the n64.

The consumers didn't favor the saturn for a 5reasons: Sega released two flops as add-ons. The 2nd is The playstation 1 was cheaper. The 3rd reason is marketing. The lack of 3rd parties games. The 5th is because the Saturn was thought of by the public as a 2d system for the most part.

[udisi]

I'm of the belief that the PSP is actually getting better. They're releasing more good titles now. gam

That being said, I'll agreed that the DS will still be the dominant handheld for 2 reasons.

1). The DS is still more kid friendly and kids still make up the majority of handheld players. The DS carts are more durable than UMDs, the system is cheaper, and has more kid friendly titles.

2) They already are the leader in the market and they like the PSP continue to release a solid lineup of games. Nintendo has had the Handheld market for nearly 20 years and I don't see them doing anything wrong to allow the PSP to over take them.

I do however believe that the PSP will now survive along side the DS because like the wii is doing with the 360/PS3, the PSP is catering to a different group of handheld users than the DS. The PSP is cartering to those who want better graphics and more new gen gaming in a handheld along with the other extras such as music, video, etc.

[Fuzzball24]

PSP doesn't have crap like the DS has...

"Nancy Drew"
"Solitaire Overload"
"Hannah Montana: Music Jam"
"Crayola Treasure Adventures"
"Imagine: Babyz"
"Hamsterz Life"


The PSP is less cluttered with crap. Even if they're ports...at least they're portable and not crap.

[udisi]

that crap sells to parents and kids.

[Fuzzball24]

that crap sells to parents and kids.

Obviously, but I just hate shit that tries to "appeal to everybody", like the DS.


-________-

[Rob2600]

I just hate shit that tries to "appeal to everybody", like the DS.

You must hate classics like Pac-Man, Breakout, Centipede, Donkey Kong, and Super Mario Bros., too.

[Frica89]

The PSP doesn't appeal to me very much. Like others have said, a lot of its big games I can get in a better form on the PS2. There are certainly a handful of exceptions, and I'll probably pick one up someday, but the DS has so much more going for it.

I can't wait for Contra 4......

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I've seen more than a few responses along the lines of "I'm not interested in PSP because I can play games found in PSP's library on the PS2."

And, while I'd like to avoid this becoming an anti-DS sentiment even in the slightest (because, honestly I love both systems) ...

... simply put - where's the logic in that statement? Or, where is the logic when looking at the relative similarity to the DS and PSP's respective software lineups?

A MAJORITY of the top selling games for DS are franchises that started (and still exist) on Nintendo consoles.

Super Mario Brothers
Mario Kart
Zelda
Star Fox
Final Fantasy
Metroid Prime

Sure, there are a handfull of original IP's for the DS, some by way of GB or GBA (Nintendogs, Brain Age, Advance Wars, Pokemon, etc.) but, seriously, come on ...

... to use the "I can play those games on the PS2" excuse just doesn't hold water.

I have a much easier time buying the "portable games should be designed for bite-sized gaming sessions" than the "too many console ports" argument/defense.

[Aussie2B]

You're comparing apples and oranges here. There is a BIG difference between completely original games in old franchises and games that are intentionally designed as portable versions of console games. The types of PSP games we're talking about here are designed to be just about exactly the same as their home counterparts. The DS games, while similar just for the fact of being in the same franchise, still offer a completely brand new experience.

[importaku]

I belive the ds will have the upper hand as it all comes down to games.

Only games that im still after on psp are silent hill & the parodius collection & taiko no tatsujin portable 2 thats pretty much it as nothing else on the psp interests me at all. The problem is with most psp games is that they are the kind of games that dont just appeal to me. I like the quirky games.

I have owned my psp for nearly a year & in that time i have only got.....
Lumines
Baito hell 2001
Loco roco
Guitaroo man
Taiko no tatsujin
Katamari damashii

I have owned my ds probably double that of the psp but im already at 65 games & theres at least another 7 i want before the end of the year. The ds just seems to have a more diverse selection of stuff out for it, well in japan anyways not sure about the west.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

You're comparing apples and oranges here. There is a BIG difference between completely original games in old franchises and games that are intentionally designed as portable versions of console games. The types of PSP games we're talking about here are designed to be just about exactly the same as their home counterparts. The DS games, while similar just for the fact of being in the same franchise, still offer a completely brand new experience.

New games in a franchise yes.

"completely brand new experience"?

I've got Mario Kart DS, and Metroid Prime Hunters, and I've played New Super Mario Bros. ... and personally I'd feel a bit silly using "completely brand new experience" as a descriptor.

But, I've had these types of discussions before - and it usually just results in frustration, so, I'll just agree to disagree and continue to enjoy both portables for what I enjoy them for respectively. (Good mini games and puzzlers on DS and respectable console type experiences on the PSP)

[Rob2600]

I've got Mario Kart DS, and Metroid Prime Hunters, and I've played New Super Mario Bros. ... and personally I'd feel a bit silly using "completely brand new experience" as a descriptor.

There's a difference between sequels and direct ports.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

There's a difference between sequels and direct ports.

(sigh)

Yes, you're right.

But, to say that games like Star Fox DS or Metroid Prime Hunters are "completely brand new experiences" from their Gamecube/N64/SNES counterparts ... I mean, come on. They're great games, but as an alleged statement of fact - that's a stretch.

[Aussie2B]

The point is no matter how similar in style and play they may be they are still built from the ground up. Even if they seem derivative for their series, they are still made from scratch, and the intent is to make a new game for DS, not "let's rework this PS2 game so we can stick it on PSP." The PSP is designed to replicate the home experience, while the DS is meant to be a brand new experience. You've already essentially agreed to this concept yourself, so I don't understand why you're contradicting yourself just to take a jab at the DS, trying to make an unfounded claim that the DS possesses the same flaws that people bring up about the PSP.

[S-Wind]

The PSP is less cluttered with crap. Even if they're ports...at least they're portable and not crap.

Unless you are only speaking to completists, that's an embarassingly weak argument against the DS, just like it is a lousy argument against the PS2.

Who cares if there is a lot of shovelware in a system's library? As long as there is a satisfactory number of good games!

Provided one is satisfied with the number of good games, why should one give a damn about the number of bad games? People don't seek to intentionally buy bad games! Unless they are completists.

When judging which system has the superior library, it is the absolute number of good games that counts, not the number of bad games.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

The point is no matter how similar in style and play they may be they are still built from the ground up. Even if they seem derivative for their series, they are still made from scratch, and the intent is to make a new game for DS, not "let's rework this PS2 game so we can stick it on PSP." The PSP is designed to replicate the home experience, while the DS is meant to be a brand new experience. You've already essentially agreed to this concept yourself, so I don't understand why you're contradicting yourself just to take a jab at the DS, trying to make an unfounded claim that the DS possesses the same flaws that people bring up about the PSP.

I agreed to the PSP having a significant amount of ports, and that there is a difference between ports and sequels.

I do not, never did and will not agree that franchise games as "derivative" as Nintendo's 1st party franchise top-sellers are "completely brand new experiences". Period.

There's no jabs being taken. I never even said ports are bad! Personally I enjoy ports ... PORTABLE GAMING at it's core - to me - should be a gamer being able to replicate their favorite AT-HOME, CONSOLE experience on the go.

I don't have a probelm with Nintendo bringing their entire NES, SNES, N64, and GC catalog to the DS ... I just have an issue with people who use a certain flawed logic set to criticize the PSP and it's library but give the DS a pass for nearly the same reason.

But, like I said, these types of discussions always end like this. People who are ultra supportive of the DS can't seem to handle ANY criticism regarding the system or it's software library (even though this wasn't even criticism) so, I'm done with my opinions on this matter. They're only my opinions, not fact, not law, don't take them personally. Move along, nothing more to see here.

[Aussie2B]

I'm not taking anything personal and I'm not ultra supportive of anything. I'm probably one of the most neutral persons in this topic considering I own neither a DS nor a PSP, yet have a fair amount of experience with both. I don't think either offers me a pressing reason to purchase, but there is stuff I'm interested in on both that I'll get someday down the road.

I'm just pointing out how you're making this broad, sweeping judgment to make an analogy that just doesn't hold water, and now you're doing the exact opposite by nitpicking over details.

The only thing I said you agreed with is what you're reiterating right now - PSP replicates the experience of playing home games. And, in turn, DS doesn't. You can't then turn it around and say "Oh wait, but the DS does have the same problem!" It seems like when it's about the PSP, it's to praise it, but when you attempt to apply it to the DS, it becomes a negative which can be canceled out if both possess the same negative.

Now matter how you spin it you can't compare a PSP game that's a port or designed to be as similar to a home game as feasibly possible to a DS franchise sequel that's an entirely new game with new areas, enemies, graphics, music, characters, etc. etc. That would be like suggesting Super Mario Sunshine couldn't have been regarded as a completely new game because just because it reused the franchise elements in Super Mario 64 such as jumping into pictures in a hub to reach other areas and collecting 120 shines/stars. What do you expect, every new game to completely break the mold? Even with their similarities, these games are at a completely different level of originality from certain PSP titles that offer a near exact console experience. You could easily take the DS games at hand in this topic and release them on a home console and people would just regard them as just another sequel. If you released the PSP games we're talking about on PS2, consumers would question why nearly the same game is being released again. Nobody is going to confuse New Super Mario Bros. with any other Mario or Mario Kart DS with any other Mario Kart or Phantom Hourglass with Wind Waker or what have, despite any gameplay and aesthetic similarities.

[Daria]

You ask if we're "playing the same system" ... but I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you don't own one at all much less play with it on a daily.

My PSP was a self purchased birthday present. But then I loved PSOne era gaming. My favorite titles by far as PoPoLoCrois and Legend of Heroes. But you are right, I don't play it on a daily basis.

However the PS2 is on it's way out the door, and saying the PSP is capable of current-gen games is much the same as saying the DS is capable of playing GameCube titles. They're both fun handhelds for different reasons, but I don't see the PSP outclassing the DS from the overwhelming technical standpoint that you're claiming.

[swlovinist]

I am happy to see that Sony is offering a solid lineup with the PSP this holiday. I do not see them outselling the DS. Either one you pick up, there are fun games to played.

[DigitalSpace]

I am happy to see that Sony is offering a solid lineup with the PSP this holiday. I do not see them outselling the DS. Either one you pick up, there are fun games to played.

I fully agree.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I'm not taking anything personal and I'm not ultra supportive of anything. I'm probably one of the most neutral persons in this topic considering I own neither a DS nor a PSP, yet have a fair amount of experience with both. I don't think either offers me a pressing reason to purchase, but there is stuff I'm interested in on both that I'll get someday down the road.

I'm just pointing out how you're making this broad, sweeping judgment to make an analogy that just doesn't hold water, and now you're doing the exact opposite by nitpicking over details.

The only thing I said you agreed with is what you're reiterating right now - PSP replicates the experience of playing home games. And, in turn, DS doesn't. You can't then turn it around and say "Oh wait, but the DS does have the same problem!" It seems like when it's about the PSP, it's to praise it, but when you attempt to apply it to the DS, it becomes a negative which can be canceled out if both possess the same negative.

Now matter how you spin it you can't compare a PSP game that's a port or designed to be as similar to a home game as feasibly possible to a DS franchise sequel that's an entirely new game with new areas, enemies, graphics, music, characters, etc. etc. That would be like suggesting Super Mario Sunshine couldn't have been regarded as a completely new game because just because it reused the franchise elements in Super Mario 64 such as jumping into pictures in a hub to reach other areas and collecting 120 shines/stars. What do you expect, every new game to completely break the mold? Even with their similarities, these games are at a completely different level of originality from certain PSP titles that offer a near exact console experience. You could easily take the DS games at hand in this topic and release them on a home console and people would just regard them as just another sequel. If you released the PSP games we're talking about on PS2, consumers would question why nearly the same game is being released again. Nobody is going to confuse New Super Mario Bros. with any other Mario or Mario Kart DS with any other Mario Kart or Phantom Hourglass with Wind Waker or what have, despite any gameplay and aesthetic similarities.

I really tried to drop this, but I'm not going out on this topic with you or anybody else putting words in my mouth.

Since my first reply on the topic, I never said anything intended to be negative about the DS.

There are a few things that I either said or quoted from other users that may have been perceived as jabs or negative statements, but just pointing out that the PSP was designed to create a more console-quality portable gaming experience (and, yes, AS it was pointed out, that WAS during the PS2 being "current gen") than other handhelds on the market past and present does not mean that I am saying that the DS is a LESSER QUALITY SYSTEM.

You (and others) are only taking my personal assessments of both systems as negative statements about the DS.

What I DID do was DEFEND the PSP in the face of the standard (and what I believe to be unfounded) criticisms about the system. Which again, and often in these types of discussions any pro-PSP statements are usually misconstrued as inherently anti-DS statements (which in this case is utterly false).

I simply don't, and will never understand why a handheld system "having lots of ports" is a valid criticism.

Especially when:

A.) In the past - current gen console ports were a near impossibility (i.e. SNES games could NOT be ported with any degree of quality to the GB or GBC, but they have found welcome homes on the GBA and DS - but games across most late last-gen and some current gen platforms like Tomb Raider Legend or Madden 07 can now be ported with a near exact standard on the PSP)

B.) there are a faction of portable gamers out there that want nothing more than to experience console gaming on the go.

As far as the "completely brand new experiences" statement - sure, (for the sake of example) New Super Mario Brothers is a "different" game than Super Mario Brothers on the NES. And if you feel that it's a "completely brand new experience" - that's your prerogative and your opinion on the matter. I don't see it as a "completely. brand. new. experience." I see it as a re-worked version of a game that I've played before. I'm not and never did say that a pixel-for-pixel port of a game like Tomb Raider Legend or Madden 07' on the PSP IS a "completely new experience" either! I don't expect sequels to be entirely new games - but the fact that they're sequels make them (in most cases) "derivative" in their own rights. You can have a "derivative" yet progressive sequel like God of War to God of War II or Mario 64 to Mario Sunshine and NOT have that be a bad thing ... but you can't deny that a certain instance of "derivativeness" still exists. And then of course there are sequels like Resident Evil 4, Final Fantasy 12, etc. that re-boot or re-write the entire structure of a game - leaving as little "derivative-ness" as possible.

But, I digress. I was JUST expressing that I disagreed with the statement that franchise sequels are "completely new blah blah blahs" when in order to be "completely new" I PERSONALLY feel that they need to genuinely be a completely new game. I think a franchise sequel that doesn't totally re-structure - in it's nature just CAN'T be "completely new".

I never said that PSP ports are ALL "completely new" or that re-worked franchise sequels like Ultimate Ghosts N' Goblins aren't "derivative" in their own right.

So, I don't know what else to say to you. You're only seeing what you want to see in my posts, and ignoring the rest.

Standing in defense of the PSP (I did NOT criticize the DS I only made observations based on my personal experience with both systems. Yet several others posters DID DIRECTLY criticize the PSP and I simply responded to those criticisms) does not mean a person does not own, enjoy or respect the DS.

[heybtbm]

Since my first reply on the topic, I never said anything intended to be negative about the DS.

It's worthless to even try and explain yourself. The Nintendo fan-boys never let facts or reason get in the way of a good flaming. You dared suggest that there might be other (non-DS) handhelds worthy of playing...and for that you will be punished. Blasphemer.

[boatofcar]

It's worthless to even try and explain yourself. The Nintendo fan-boys never let facts or reason get in the way of a good flaming. You dared suggest that there might be other (non-DS) handhelds worthy of playing...and for that you will be punished. Blasphemer.

O_O

I'm pretty sure there hasn't been anything like that in this thread. Most of the people who had negative things to say about the PSP also own PSPs. I did, but I sold mine because it made my hands hurt and the load times were atrocious. I had the old version, of course. If I'd bought the new version now, I'd' probably be much happier with the console itself and the game selection.

[Aussie2B]

Uh... yeah.... So now I'm a DS fanboy when I don't even own one and have no intention of getting one in the near future. o_O This topic has now officially degraded into idiocy. But I guess it's to be expected based on the starting point of the topic which just begs for fans of the two portables to get all worked up if they don't like everything they hear.

Frankie, I think you're getting too flustered, and you're starting to make absolutely no sense anymore. You're accusing me of doing this and saying that, when all I ever said was that I took an issue with your analogy. I found it be be unfounded and designed only in purpose to bring about a flaw for the DS and in turn negate the same flaw for the PSP that others have brought up. Since you don't like them making the complaint that they can get the same experiences on PS2, which you yourself stated as a positive trait of the PSP, you attempted to construe the idea that the DS is the same, which is completely untrue. Nobody cares how you define "completely new;" the point is that DS games that are new entries in old franchises are still standalone games specifically designed for DS, thus making them far more original and far more different from their home console siblings than PSP games that strive to be identical or nearly so to PS2 games.

But I think at this point, no matter how many times and ways I point out your flaw in logic, you're going to be stubborn and stick to your analogy, even if the entire gaming world disagrees since it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that the DS offers a much fresher experience from the home consoles than the PSP, which as you clearly demonstrated can be both a positive and a negative trait, so there's really nothing to get all worked up about.

[boatofcar]

Frankie, I think people just hate on you because you destroyed a Dig Dug cabinet. I know I do.















And if you don't recognize the sarcasm in that statement, then there's something wrong.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Frankie, I think people just hate on you because you destroyed a Dig Dug cabinet. I know I do.















And if you don't recognize the sarcasm in that statement, then there's something wrong.

Yeah, I know. I'll never live that one down.

And I knew that even getting on the topic of discussing the PSP and the DS in one coherent post would be a self-fulfilling prophecy of people turning ANYTHING I said into "You like PSP, therefore you don't like DS.".

I've explained myself ad nauseum at this point, cited specific game examples to illustrate what I'm explaining, and defended my own personal opinions (not the opinions of the "entire rest of the gaming world") to an end.

And yet, there still needs to be one of those "you won't change your personal opinions therefore you're STUBBORN / get the last word in" type of posts continuing to try to illustrate me as some type of un-educated portable gamer. Where others just say "PSP sucks because it has too many ports." and they just get some type of free pass on the matter.

(sigh) Whatever.

I'll be back later ... I need to go gut a mint condition Tron cabinet, throw out the black-light assembly and paint out the side art.



Just kidding. ;)

Seriously. Just kidding.

[Daria]

"You like PSP, therefore you don't like DS.".



I don't think that's what Aussie's saying at all. She's arguing one point of your post, and afterall forums are a place for disscussion. However you've flipped that statement around stated because I didn't agree with you that I musn't own a PSP. A little hypocritical don'tcha think? I think you just need to relax and stop trying so hard to read in between the lines. We all just want to talk about games here. Not attack you personally.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I don't think that's what Aussie's saying at all. She's arguing one point of your post, and afterall forums are a place for disscussion. However you've flipped that statement around stated because I didn't agree with you that I musn't own a PSP. A little hypocritical don'tcha think? I think you just need to relax and stop trying so hard to read in between the lines. We all just want to talk about games here. Not attack you personally.

Lol, nice. Call me a hypocrite, and then claim that you're not personally attacking me.

(Also noteworthy, when people are in an exchange with me and claim that the topic has "degraded into idiocy", they shouldn't be surprised when I take that ever so slightly personally as well. One doesn't need to be "reading between" any lines to feel like they've been called an idiot in that fashion.)

While you're at it, please, enlighten me as to what opinion(s) I've "flipped" on.

As all I can see in re-reading every one of my responses is me standing steadfast on every opinion that I've illustrated (to an EXHAUSTING end) regarding both systems, defending my PERSONAL OPINIONS (which are clearly stated as), and people continuing to badger me on the issue because they A.) Don't agree with said personal opinions (and apparently neither does the "rest of the entire gaming world" and B.) Are frustrated that they can't "change/fix/modify/score a personal mental victory over" my personal opinions.

And, in regards to this so called "flip" of stance/opinions, at what point did I change my tune about PSP or DS being good, bad, or otherwise? (You'll need to give me a very specific example if you'd like to back up the hypocrite statement.) I just can't seem to find the point where I made the turn and reversed on my feelings for either.

[Daria]

I didn't say you flipped your stance or opinion. But I did provide my example of the "If you like A then you must not like B" senario. To reiterate, you stated because I didn't agree with your opinion on the PSP then I mustn't own a PSP. A false assumption. And it's the same thing as you feeling as though everyone's accusing you of disliking the DS because you're supporting the PSP in your debate.

See my point now?

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I didn't say you flipped your stance or opinion. But I did provide my example of the "If you like A then you must not like B" senario. To reiterate, you stated because I didn't agree with your opinion on the PSP then I mustn't own a PSP. A false assumption. And it's the same thing as you feeling as though everyone's accusing you of disliking the DS because you're supporting the PSP in your debate.

See my point now?

I see that contrary to my assumption - you own a PSP. That was a correction you made and if I didn't acknowledge it then, then I "stand corrected" now.

However, I still categorically disagree that it's on a machine on par with/limited to the PS1 in terms of it's processing/technological prowess. Which was I believe your initial opinion on the matter - that we weren't "playing the same system".

There's simply no way that a PS1 could pull off a technical feat like Tekken 5, or Syphon Filter Logan's Shadow.

And I think that if not a matter of non-ownership, perhaps it's your limited exposure to the current, modern (if you will) software library that exists on the system that causes you to associate the system with a PS1 level of overall quality, as it's early library did have a handful of titles that were directly ported from the PS1 era (Ape Escape being the most obvious one that comes to mind).

But, I'm sorry, I still feel that all I've done is throw my two cents in on the whole matter, and I've been, if not directly attacked due to differences of personal opinion, then "subtly poked for defensive reaction" over it.

I don't think that assuming that you don't own something based on your assessment of it is the same thing (or hypocritical) as claiming that people are seeing a lot of anti DS sentiment in my pro PSP conversation and responding in an aggressive fashion over it.

[Aussie2B]

Deep breaths, Frankie, deep breaths. :P

Daria is right, you're desperately trying to read between the lines and are coming to all these outlandish conclusions. I fail to see how I was ever "aggressive" just by trying to point out a flaw in the logic of your analogy, and just because I said you were pointing out (or, in my perspective, making up) a negative about the DS by saying it had the same problem that other people were pointing out about the PSP doesn't mean I think there's all this "anti DS sentiment" coming from you. Nor did I or anyone else once take your positive PSP comments as being something negative about the DS. You're just pulling that one completely out of your butt. And the "degraded into idiocy" comment wasn't even directed at you. o_O Nor was it even intended to be taken in such a way that I'm calling anyone an idiot. I'm sure just about anyone realizes how ridiculous it is when this topic degrades to a point where I'm called a Nintendo fanboy and accused of flaming people because non-DS handhelds are praised, especially when I don't even own a DS and am just as indifferent to it as the PSP.

[Jimid2]

Well, I've gone through this thread and I'd like to add my 2¢... first, on the original question, I'm sure the DS will out sell the PSP in both hardware and software this year, but as others have mentioned, the PSP is far from a failed system - with more than 20 Million units sold worldwide, it's an extremely successful portable, and there will be some great games released for it over the next few months. And I really think that the new lighter form factor and the increased memory are going to help it gain a broader audience. Sure, it will never be a "pick-up-'n'-go" system to the same degree as the DS, but it's got a lot going for it, and one of its strengths, imho, is its library...

For the record, I live in a household with 1 DS Phat, 3 DS Lites, 3 PSP Phats and a PSP Slim... All told, we have in excess of 200 games for the two systems, and I don't think we tend to favour one over the other... Sure, my wife uses her DS far more than she uses her PSP, and I use my PSP daily and only pull out my DS on occaision, but over-all, the two systems see about equal use between the four of us. However, I do want to go on record as stating that I think the accusation that the PSP library is comprised predominantly of PS2 and Game Cube ports is utter bullocks! Metal Gear Solid Portable Ops, Metal Gear Acid 1 & 2, the two new Syphon Filter games, Killzone Liberation, Wipeout Pure and many other titles are as clearly "new, original" additions to their franchises as New Super Mario Bros. or Metroid Prime Hunters ever were! Sure the PSP gets some nearly direct ports - but only because IT CAN! Developers are looking to maximize their profit and want to get their game on as many systems as possible... But take Tomb Raider Legend and Anniversary for example; they play GREAT on the PSP, and I'm happy to have them available in a portable format - that's an asset imho... Have you tried playing Tomb Raider Legend on the DS? Geezus it's crap! Well, mediocre at best, and when directly compared to the PSP version it's relatively crap... give me the system with the hardware to handle the ports over the one that gets the ugly crippled versions any day ;)

[Ed Oscuro]

For Hardware sales I have to say the ds. Contra 4 is a big game and I expect to be a big seller. Psp doesn't have a bad line up. I have to call it pretty good.
Agreed, even though I'm biased. :D That said, I still don't know what games will be a draw when C4 is "done with." I feel like I might have bought a DS ($121 brand new, shipped) for one game - hopefully not.

[boatofcar]

Do you think the new tv-out on the PSP is influencing a lot of buyers?