Starting on the Commodore 64

[Nz17]

Well it feels like it is time for me to get a new game system. But the Wii, X360, and PS3 all feel wrong to me. So what's a gamer to do? Go to the older systems, of course!

Currently having a 14 inch television screen (36 cm), I decided that it would be best to have something 16-bit or older. And since the Commodore 64 has been getting a lot of love on the Internet lately, I thought this would be a great system to start collecting for. After all, there seems to be very few "games for adults" on the Nintendo DS (the newest game system I have), but the C64, being a true computer system at heart, has a bevy of games that can hold the interest of someone over the age of mandatory schooling.

But having only one friend who ever owned a C64, and that being a friend I only made in high school years ago, I never grew up with the Commodores. Thus I have no idea where to start. So I thought I would ask my fellows on the Retrogaming Roundtable.

So then, what is the hardware and software I should start with? I don't have a big budget, so common yet fun games are the order of the day. I think that a keyboard is built into the system, so are the only external things necessary a power adapter and a television cable? Do the TV cables come in coaxial or RCA/AV? Are the floppy disks and drives still functional today, or should I stick with cartridges or tapes? If I want to "get a taste of Commodore," should I get the plug-and-play version first, or dive right into the classic hardware?

Any help with my ignorance and questions is greatly appreciated. Thanks, fellow DP followers, and game on!

[Scream And Fly]

Myself, I was an Atari computer person, but the C64 is awesome. The floppy drives are fairly reliable, and you'll definitely need one. The C64 consoles are very cheap and they are literally everywhere - I have several myself. The 64C model will get more money (new, updated model, but functionally the same). Also, pick up the Epyx Fast Load cart while you're at it.

On another note, have a look at the Atari 8-bit machines, which had most of the same games (I think the Atari versions were mostly better, but that's a big debate). With the Atari, you also have the option of using the SIO2PC interface, which really makes it kick ass.

Greg

[KeyserSoze61]

Get the base Commodore 64, a 1541 disk drive, and an atari 9 pin joystick and go to town. It's been a while since I've played with the Commodore, but I cannot tell you how many hours I put into Arkanoid and a few other select titles in my childhood.

Incidentally, I'm in the process of cleaning up the basement and I just uncovered a ton of C64 stuff to go through. Should be fun.

[Wraith Storm]

My friend had a C-64 years ago and we had a blast with it. So last year I decided to start my own C-64 collection. It was quite confusing because there are many models of the C-64, disk drives, etc. and I didnt know where to start. But after researching everything and making some good and not so good decisions I will try to head you in the right direction.

First off you need a Commodor. There are 3 solid choices
The "Bread box" C-64 is easy to find and pretty cheap. The problem here is the early "Bread box" models werent made to well. I have 3 of these and only 1 works correctly. The other 2 I am keeping for spare parts. But later models had board revisions, some chips were soldered some socketed and they seemed to put out less heat. So if you can find a late model "Bread box" you should have no worries.

Choice number 2 would be the C-64 C.
This is the Cadillac of C-64's. They took the C-64 and placed it in a case that looks like a mini C-128. It looks nicer, cleaner, and you know you are not going to get a model with an old board. But on the down side these tend to be a bit pricy in comparison the the "Bread Box" models.

The final choice would be a Commoder 128.
I dont have one of these but they can boot in C-64 mode. Because of this they are compatible with all (or most) C-64 programs, utilities and peripherals. This way you are getting 2 computers in one and from what my brother told me (He had a 128 years ago) they are very reliable.

Once you decide on a computer you need a disk drive. The tape drive isnt neccissary. Almost everything that was on tape had a disk or cartridge version. Besides the tape drive is slooooowwwww. There are 2 main drives to consider.

The 1571 drive is my favorite. It has an internal power supply so it reduces clutter and eleminates the power brick. Because the power supply is internal it makes the drive casing bigger than some of the other drives and it puts out a bit of heat at the rear but Its always been reliable. They only game I cant run on it is Ultima 1 (which Ultima 1 specifies in the manual) so in rare cases that I cant run something on this drive I use my other.

This is the 1541-II. This seems to be the choice of many and thus it will fetch a bit more, but it is a nice drive. It is much smaller than the 1571 because it has an external power supply. So you will have to deal with the powerbrick. Like I said before, I like the 1571 because it is all self contained. There are some other drives like the 1541 which was the first floppy drive they made. long spans of loading can cause these to overheat and some can go out of alignment. There is also the 1581 which is the only Commodore 64/128 3" floppy drive. These go for a lot of money but seeing as how almost everything came on 5" floppy disks you will probably have no immediate use for one.

So hopefully you now an idea of what Coomodore 64 computer and what disk drive to get. All you need now are some games. Hope you have as much fun C-64 collecting as I do.

Also as Scream and Fly stated above. The Epyx Fast Load cart makes life MUCH easier. It speeds things up and has file/disk management programs built in that are a slow and painfull process to do without this cart.

[Flack]

So then, what is the hardware and software I should start with? I don't have a big budget, so common yet fun games are the order of the day. I think that a keyboard is built into the system, so are the only external things necessary a power adapter and a television cable? Do the TV cables come in coaxial or RCA/AV? Are the floppy disks and drives still functional today, or should I stick with cartridges or tapes? If I want to "get a taste of Commodore," should I get the plug-and-play version first, or dive right into the classic hardware?

I spent a lot of time typing these up:

http://www.digitpress.com/livefaq/index.php?action=show&cat=22

[icbrkr]

I think it's pretty much already been summed up here but I'll throw in my few cents.

I prefer a C64C to a standard breadbin, more or less due to the angle of the keys seem to be a bit better. Pick up a 1541/1571 drive and a fastloader of *any* sort is a must. Epyx Fastloader is great for a beginner and if you find yourself really loving the system, go for a Super Snapshot or equivalent. Besides fastloading, they can do file copies, sprite editing, ML dumping and more. Plus they'll fastboot a 1581 if you ever get one.

Lastly, pick up an MMC64 if you can find one for making real 1541 disks from readily available D64 images. There are faster ways of doing it, but this way is very unmessy.

[coinheaven]

use an emulator. i know its not the same, but trust me. i forgot how hard some of those games are and to be able to save is really nice. the emulator CCS64 works great. i have a commodore, but dont use it anymore because i am so spoiled with the emulator.

[Ze_ro]

So then, what is the hardware and software I should start with? I don't have a big budget, so common yet fun games are the order of the day. I think that a keyboard is built into the system, so are the only external things necessary a power adapter and a television cable? Do the TV cables come in coaxial or RCA/AV? Are the floppy disks and drives still functional today, or should I stick with cartridges or tapes? If I want to "get a taste of Commodore," should I get the plug-and-play version first, or dive right into the classic hardware?
As people have mentioned, all you really need is the C64 itself and a 1541. There are a lot of other drive models out there, but the 1541 is the best choice for compatibility. What model of C64 you get is largely irrelevant, as they all work the same. The older brown ones are generally a bit cheaper. You may want to get a fastload cartridge later on, but see if you like the system before you start adding stuff like that to your wishlist.

Forget about tapes. They were pretty much dead in North America by the time the C64 came out, and 99.9% of the software came on disk instead. Cartridges are nice for a quick fix, but the library of cartridges are relatively small, and most of the cartridge games are a bit primitive in comparison to the disk-based offerings. (Europe was a different matter, but I won't get into that).

As for video, the C64 has both RF and composite... it also offers S-Video in the form of what Commodore called "seperated video"... though you'd need to build your own cable to take advantage of that.

Be careful about buying disk-based games these days as a lot of the disks may have deteriorated to the point of being unplayable... especially in the conditions of J. Random Ebayer's damp basement for 20 years. I'd recommend finding some blank double density 5.25" disks (don't use high density!) and building/buying an X1541 cable (http://sta.c64.org/xcables.html) or an MMC64 in order to write your own disks.

--Zero

[Juganawt]

As the hardware aspect is covered, here is a very long list of some of the brilliant games on C64

IK+
the Last V8
Viz
Antiriad
Ikari Warriors
Monty Mole Series
StarQuake
N.O.M.A.D.
Last Ninja Series (especially remix)
Impossible Mission 1 & 2
Seymour
Airborne Ranger
Barbarian 1 & 2 (Palace Versions)
Batman - Caped Crusader
Beach Head 1 2 & 3
Bubble Bobble
Cauldron II
Buggy Boy
California Games
Cobra
Choplifter
Commando
Combat School
Shadowfire
Hobbit
Lord of the Rings
The Pawn
Supercars
Creatures 1 &2
Dan Dare 1 & 2
Denaris
Dizzy series
Dropzone
Driller
Mercenary 1 & 2
Druid 1 & 2
Dynamite Dan
Elite
Mutant Camels
E-Motion
Escape from the Planet of the Robot Monsters
Everyone's a Wally
Exolon
Friday the 13th
Nightmare on Elm Street
Frankie goes to Hollywood
Frightmare
Game Over 1 & 2
Gryzor (AKA Contra / Probotector)
Hacker 1 & 2
Hammerfist
Head over Heels
Jack the Nipper 1 & 2
Hungry Horace
Hunchback `1 & 2
JET SET WILLY 1 & 2
MANIC MINER
Kikstart 2
Kokotoni Wilf
License to Kill
Little Computer People
Locomotion
Mikie
Myth
Army / Navy Moves
Paradroid
Platoon
Thing on a Spring 1 & 2
Rastan
LED Storm
Rick Dangerous 1 & 2
Run The Gauntlet
Saboteur 1 & 2
Hostages
Silkworm
Sentinel
Skool Daze / Back to Skool
Sly Spy
Spy Hunter
Spy Vs Spy Trilogy
Stunt Bike Sim
Super Pipeline 1 & 2
Super Scramble Sim
Battle Valley
Turrican 1 & 2
Tau Ceti
Thundercats
Uridium+
V
Exploding Fist 1 & 2
Wizardry
Wizball
Yie Ar Kung Fu 1 & 2
Zaxxon
Zoids
Zynaps

That lot ought to keep you busy, but thats just the tip of the C64 iceberg

[Soviet Conscript]

As for video, the C64 has both RF and composite... it also offers S-Video in the form of what Commodore called "seperated video"... though you'd need to build your own cable to take advantage of that.
--Zero

why didn't commodore ever make a cable since they built the unit to support it?

[Ze_ro]

why didn't commodore ever make a cable since they built the unit to support it?
S-Video didn't exist back then... at least, the connector didn't. Commodore's "proprietary" separated video outputs luma and chroma through two RCA jacks, and it just happens to be electrically compatible with S-Video. Making an adapter is very easy.

I've actually made the reverse of this adapter, so I could hook S-Video compatible game systems to my 1084S, which has separated L/C jacks.

--Zero

[boatofcar]

I spent a lot of time typing these up:

http://www.digitpress.com/livefaq/index.php?action=show&cat=22

I'd love it if there were a sticky to the Technical Knowledge Base at the top of the Classic Gaming forum. So much of that info is never found by DP members.

[Nz17]

Thanks for all the information, everyone.

I still do wonder, though, if the plug and play unit gives a good approximation of the "real" C64 experience. Does anyone have this modern release and can tell us about it? I'm thinking about trying the world of Commodore through it before I invest in the older, authentic hardware.

(And as it is important to me), what are the best adventure and story-based games for the system?

Oh, and I second the motion to have a sticky thread for the Knowledge Base.

[Nes]

A list of great Commodore 64 games without Super Cycle? *shakes head in shame*

[Flack]

I still do wonder, though, if the plug and play unit gives a good approximation of the "real" C64 experience. Does anyone have this modern release and can tell us about it? I'm thinking about trying the world of Commodore through it before I invest in the older, authentic hardware.

(And as it is important to me), what are the best adventure and story-based games for the system?

The Plug and Play unit doesn't do a real system justice. It does have some good games on there, but many of them are just mini-games that were part of bigger games, and it's missing a LOT of classics. That's not to say it wasn't a neat product -- it was, and I own one -- but it doesn't even break the surface of the C64 experience, especially if (as you said) you are interested in adventure and story based games.

You could probably pick up a used C64 and disk drive for around the same price as the retail price on a C64 30-in-1 stick.

[xfrumx]

So I moved and haven't been able to find my commodore to disk drive cable. Does anyone know what I need or where to get one?!