28 Gamestop policies (good read)

[ecresto]

G, a shift supervisor at GameStop, is tired of all the GameStop bashing that goes on on the internet, and has written us a very lengthy guide to shopping at his store. Some of it is useful. Some of it is a defense of GameStop's unpopular policies. All in all, if don't enjoy being harassed for reservations or sold opened, "gutted" games, you should probably just shop somewhere else.

If not, read on:

Here's the skinny with company policies, what's written in stone, and what a friendly employee may/may not actually be able to help you with. I'd going to be as frank as possible, because, honestly, the constant Gamestop-bashing on most newsblogs really hurts sometimes.

GUTTED GAMES

1 ) First off, the biggest thing, the 'opened new games' issue. While I admit the practice is messy, I can't stress this enough; to remain a browsable, accessible small shop, 'gutting' a single copy is essentially unavoidable. As many UK commentors on such articles tend to point out, all small game shops over there have done this for years and they don't expect otherwise.

Store policy is to gut one copy for display, occasionally two or more for new releases. We're encouraged to keep as many unopened as possible, and at all stores I've worked at this is a is strongly maintained; we only gut multiples of a game if we have MANY copies to go around. The harsh side is the 'checkout' policy. Gamestop policy is, for better or worse, that employees may check out new games that are more than two weeks past their original release so long as they are returned in mint condition. I don't agree with this, personally, as many part-timers and less-dedicated employees simply can't be trusted to take decent care of products. Typically most good stores encourage employees to check out used, even though company policy gives used more weight than new.

The fact is, though, that checking out titles isn't at the top of most employee's to-do lists, and 98% of 'gutted' games have literally never been touched, only slid into a paper or plastic sleeve and put away. If you cannot tolerate an opened case, then insist on a copy in original wrap. This really is overzealous and impractical if you plan to open it yourself; the PRACTICAL thing to do is, if you see you are getting a 'gut', ask outright to see the disc first. Any decent employee will comply, and they have no valid excuse not to show you.

2) If there is anything justifiably wrong with the condition of the disc, ask about a shopworn discount; this used to be a regular (but not advertised) option that was recently taken out of our systems, giving 10% off a product that is in poorer shape than it ought be. This can technically be done manually but is not encouraged, but a seasoned or understanding employee (especially managers) generally shouldn't mind if they see that the product is not in new condition.

3) The biggest misconception regarding gutted games is that we do not allow them returned as new. This is not accurate. A store following CORRECT policy puts a clear adhesive seal on all gutted game cases that are sold, allowing it to be returned as if it were entirely unopened for a full refund so long as the seal is undisturbed. This is sometimes substituted with other stickers or forms of seals, but ALL new games with open cases are meant to be sealed in some way to allow the customer their right to return it as unopened. If you buy a gutted game and they do not put any kind of seal on it, insist on one. They shouldn't be sending you out the door with an unsealed game if it was rung up as new.

With only a few exceptions, the stores I've worked at are staffed by very careful people who know better than to take poor care of any new products. I have been a customer at stores that weren't so gracious or careful, admittedly. There are better stores and some poorer ones; make a point of patronizing the good ones to send a message to the bad. It's simple consumerism.

4) The return policy for games is straightforward. New, UNOPENED products are returnable within 30 days for full refund. An 'opened' new game with an untampered gamestop seal is counted as unopened (emphasis on untampered; its easy to tell if its been peeled back and reapplied.) Opened new merchandise can be replaced for an identical item within 7 days if defective. Used games and game systems can be replaced within 30 days if defective. Used games, though we don't advertise this, can also be exchanged within 7 days for another title if it's simply not what you wanted; it's essentially a 7-day trial period. This is very useful for parents with small children who get picky with games or have trouble with varying difficulty levels. Doing it three or more times without making real new purchases tends to get that privilege taken away (and marked as such on the receipt,) so don't abuse it.

5) Don't lose your receipt and expect us to find records for you, it is quite difficult. If you lose your receipt but need to make a return or exchange, the ONLY way we are likely to pick it out of records is if you know the date you bought it on, which register rang it in, and you can confirm your means of payment and/or other details. This is NOT policy and not all employees have clearance to access register journals, so you can't count on this.

6) Gift receipts are always available at the end of your transaction. Now that all EBs and Gamestops are corporate-managed, your returns can be taken at any Gamestop as long as you have the original receipt and it is within the permitted dates.


RESERVES

There are two sides to the reserve issue, one more valid than the other, but both important.

7) Everybody decries the nature of the Gamestop employee to push reserves on the uninterested consumer. Please understand, no matter how dedicated an employee may be, on the district level and higher, he is of no value beyond his reserves and Game Informer subscriptions. Nearly any employee is the sum of their reserves, and unfortunately good people who treat customers well will see their job fade away because of poor numbers. A Gamestop worker pushing a reserve on you is trying to keep their job, literally.

The other half is much more important to you, the customer, however. Gamestop is a massive company, yes, but every individual store is a very small niche. A store's allotments are based on its net sales figures and, among other things, reserves. A particular title that isn't guaranteed to fly off shelves may not be sent to a store at ALL if no interest is shown in it. A simple example is Odin Sphere, a fantastic title that slipped under the radar but got rave reviews. My own store at the time got about a half-dozen copies of the game, as I had preordered it myself along with one friend and one regular customer. Other stores adjacent to us got a single copy or, at most, two. This is not some faceless abusive policy, this is fair business; video games are expensive, and no company wants to order excess stock for a store that seems disinterested in it.

Preorders are only taken when their allotment can be guaranteed. I cannot stress this enough. There are burps in the system here and there, but for every one or two preorder gaffes you read about online there are literally thousands of beneficial ones. Preorders do not cost any additional fee (only a base 5 dollar deposit) and are fully (though reluctantly) refundable for cash at any time. Yes, cancelled preorders count against the employee ringing it in and they will be reluctant, but it is your right to cancel for cash refund if you choose to and they can't decline it.

On another hand, preorders really do save stress. Guitar Hero bundles in particular cause trouble because people assume that, as a hot title, they will be in mass supply. It's true that Halo 3 was easy to find and perhaps not really worth preordering, but when Guitar Hero II came out for Xbox360, at most stores it was a nightmare. In my home area in particular, the common attitude is 'I'll just come in the day it comes out,' but the large GH bundles were not in huge supply, and those that we DID have were all reserved out by people who had paid deposits on them. We accepted preorders on the game for months and plenty of people passed on it and got angry with us afterwards.

It's as simple as this. If you know you plan to buy Game X, then place a deposit on it. It will
A) ingratiate that employee to you, whether or not they show it immediately
B) guarantee that store gets sent at least a few copies as opposed to one or none
C) keep one copy held with your name on it when it arrives.
8) Policy is to hold preorders for 48 hours after the title's release, and then we are ordered by corporate to start selling unclaimed ones to the public. Most stores are compassionate enough that they will readily hold yours longer if you cannot make it within the first two days. If you know you won't be there within 48 hours to pick up your order, call ahead and ask for a manager to earmark it for you. Tell them when you intend to get it if possible, so they can mark it as such.

9) Preorder gaffes are a big deal to us. It does help to keep your receipt from your deposit, although all information is stored on the store computers and should be safe from issue. If you have multiple reserves you can have a list reprinted with your current deposits at any time. If the company loses your preorder or accidentally (or stupidly) sells it, raise issue with it immediately. Talk to the store manager or, if they are unwilling to assist, get contact information for the district manager. We take preorders seriously and stores that do NOT need to be called to our attention.

10) As shameful as it may sound, regular customers that preorder often earn employee gratitude quickly. We can't help but appreciate them! Customers that order and pick up titles regularly are very likely to get extra help or attention from employees and managers when they have a problem or need help finding difficult items.

SUBSCRIPTION / DISCOUNT CARD

11) The card is really a matter of personal utility, but, like reserves, are part of what determines an employee's worth to the company.

The discount card is, in full, a hand-in-hand offer with one year of Game Informer magazine. If gives you a 10 percent bonus on trade-ins of games, accessories, and (at some stores) DVDs, and 10 percent off the purchase of used games, accessories, and DVDs. Customers buying a strategy guide at time of the game's purchase get 20% off the guide with the card as well. The card is only good if you have it with you! It is not locked to your name or phone number and we do not yet have a means of retrieving it. Most directly, it's actually a service of the GI magazine and can be replaced by them. It is 14.99 for one year of the card and magazine. Officially, you are buying the magazine and the card is a bonus.

The card is useful if you buy used games or trade them in often. It's that simple. Admittedly, used game prices are geared towards cardholders; a typical recent release is 60 new and 55 used, but 10 percent off means 49.50, which is a palpable difference (and recoups a third of the original price of the card.)

12) If you don't own a next-gen system, don't trade in often, or simply never buy used, the card isn't for you and you can tell an employee so. Game Informer is still a fairly good magazine and offers occasional bonus coupons that stack with the card, so don't write it off entirely.

TRADE-INS

13) This is a really harsh point to people. This is the source of more shouting and anger (and even threats) than any hot-title shortage ever. All of our trade-in values boil down to two factors; sellability and demand for that title.

The Gamestop trade-in business is based on on key tenet; we hardly turn down ANYTHING. For all the rage and screaming we take from people getting one dollar for years-old Madden games, you need to remember one key fact; we are taking in games that are often unlikely to EVER resell.

Most trade-ins we ever receive are not recent or desirable games. We take games in awful shape, without original cases, and that are years-old and so saturated that they will never, ever sell. Every gamestop is drowning in used Madden NFL 2001-2007's as we speak. Old sports titles have no resale value, and we offer a small amount for them with the understand that we will probably never make that back on its sale. The point here is, simply, that there is no sense in decrying Gamestop's trade-in values for games that you are unlikely to sell anywhere else.

Not all trade-ins are like this, however. Games in high demand are, appropriately, worth much more. This doesn't just mean RECENT games like Bioshock and Halo 3. Super Smash Bros for the Gamecube is still trading in for fifteen dollars at the time of this writing; much more than any other Gamecube game. Games or items we are likely to resell are worth far more than ones that are incomplete, in poor shape, unpopular, or overly plentiful. Always bear this in mind. Some tips for trading in;

14) Many Gamestops don't take DVDs any more, and the company as a whole is phasing them out. DVDs are worth very little and you shouldn't bother.

15) Used accessories are split into two values; one for the official first-party versions (Sony, Nintendo, etc official controllers and parts) and one for off-brand models. First-party accessories and parts are always worth much more; they are generally higher quality, always more compatible and faster to sell. Some name-brand controllers are worth up to twice as much trade-in value as their off-brand counterparts.

16) Sports games come out annually and decline in value instantly. Never count on a good value from them.

17) Outdated consoles are traded in every day. Almost every gamestop literally has fifty or more used Xboxes and Gamecubes in stock at any time. They do not sell and we get one at least every day, so they are worth very little. The new slim PSP is in much higher demand than the original, and so the trade-in value on the old model has since dropped. If you want the hot new version of anything, trade in as far before its release as you can stand so you can get the peak value.

18) We can't simply 'trade' one game for another in stock. I know it sounds silly, but its a very very common misconception from children to adults that we simply swap one for another of your choosing. It simply can't work that way.

19) Don't be afraid to sell things on your own! The going resell rates for any current games or accessories online is usually close to what we resell for. If its a much newer title and you don't mind listing and shipping it, you could make a small handful more selling it online yourself. Ebay and Amazon.com are obvious choices, but you may find other outlets that work for you.

20) Most importantly, take good care of your games! We simply can't take mangled games, and games with some damage or no cases generally aren't worth as much because they either need repairs or will be unlikely to sell without case/manual. I'm always grateful to anyone who brings in a trade of good products in good condition, because it always nets them more value and is better for the store all around.

OTHER TIPS

Here's a few tips to get the most out of your local Gamestop;

21) When buying used accessories, always go first-party. Official accessories are consistently more durable and longer-lasting, even when pre-owned. Off-brand PS2 memory cards, even if licensed by Sony, are notoriously unstable. Pay the extra money for Sony or Microsoft brand, it's worth it in the long run.

22) When buying NEW accessories, off-brand or Gamestop-branded accessories can be reliable and much cheaper alternatives. While I'd still recommend official first-party controllers, some products, like Gamestop universal AV cables / AC adapters are very convenient and incredibly cheap by comparison. When buying ANYTHING wireless, go for first-party or Logitech brand; all other brand wireless controllers are simply inferior in response and durability.

23) Many Gamestop employees are good at what they do and are knowledgeable enough to help you out of the occasional technical snafu, but we simply are not tech support and can't be counted on as such. This sounds condescending, but you really need to read the instructions for new merchandise in full before calling for assistance or declaring it defective. We lose plenty of good product every week from people buying wireless Xbox 360, Wii, and PS3 controllers, not bothering to sync them to their systems at home, and returning them as 'defective.' It seems silly but it's a constant, almost daily problem. If you bought a used item that does not have instructions, inquire at the time of purchase if there is any information or documentation that you may need.

24) Courtesy-wise, please, bring in your trades before 8pm if at all possible! A game or two here and there isn't hard to organize, but all too often a person will carry a duffel bag of every game they ever owned into the store ten minutes before closing. Sorting out sellable/defective games, relabeling them, making new cases, alphabetizing them into displays and all other work requires time and effort that we don't muster well when we're trying to close our store without going over our allotted payroll! If you have a lot to trade in, save it for a day that you can go in earlier. You'll get better, less rushed service and your cashier will be more likely to help you find the best offers or promotions to bring up your trade values.

25) We ID for M-rated games. Typically we ID anyone who appears to be under 30, but I have seen managers who ID any and all customers for M and R rated products. You need to accept when doing business with Gamestop that we have to enforce the ratings for safety of our own jobs and the industry as a whole. An employee will likely refuse sale if you can't provide picture ID with date of birth for an age 17+ title. We are all warned regularly by corporate and the punishment for slip-ups is generally immediate termination.

26) If we don't have an item you're looking for, we can pretty easily check in with nearby stores so long as they are within our district. Some Gamestops even have an "On-hand Lookup" function that will allow them to search a larger area of stores for hard-to-find items. Ask if your store has this and take advantage of ones that do when trying to find specific games. The Gamestop website's locater is also useful, but limited to items in the online catalog.

27) Wiis sell out within hours of shipments arriving consistently. If you want a Wii from Gamestop, contact the nearest and most convenient shops to you and ask what time of day they receive their weekday shipments. Call them around that time every weekday, and when they have one, get there promptly, because we cannot hold them for anyone. We rarely get more than one shipment of Wiis in a week, but it never hurts to call every weekday. We'd rather get multiple phone calls than see you waste a trip out to the store or, even worse, miss a shipment because you didn't call that day!

28) More important than anything else I've said, a Gamestop is its employees, not its company or policies. This is capitalism, so vote with your patronage! Some Gamestops are definitely better than others, and they deserve to be rewarded with your business. If any one Gamestop is consistently poor, avoid them. Word spreads fast, and bad stores learn to shape up if pressed.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I managed a Funcoland from around 1996 to 2001.

It's amazing how little has changed.

The biggest difference between then and now is that Funcoland, prior to being purchased by Barnes & Noble / Software Etc. (Gamestop) used to provide it's employees with commission on Game Informer Subscriptions (The magazine began it's publication with Funcoland) system warranties, and cartridge / CD cleaning kits.

One of many reasons I parted ways with the company was the removal of commission, however, as a now consumer with the same stores I see that store employees still have the same pressures and the same criticisms.

Of all the annoyances that the business in general provides the consumer - "Gutted" games rank highest on my list.

Regardless of any excuse that any employee at any level of the Gamestop family of stores provides to me, I simply can't agree that a NEW sealed game is the same as a opened game, ESPECIALLY when the package has been handled by countless consumers, has retail stickers (which are usually impossible to remove without leaving residue) all over it, and is sealed with another large, gaudy, sticky sticker across the entire case at the time of purchase.

No matter how "careful" an employee is with the disc at the time of gutting - sealed new is sealed new, anything else is used, and semantics won't change that.

A "USED" game coming from my personal collection that's 5 years old often has been handled less than a "gutted" game that's spent a week in a Gamestop location.

If the problem is "games need to be accessible" to the browsing consumer - then Gamestop should provide it's stores with fake empty cases with copies of the actual retail sleeves the same way Toys R Us does with every single new game. Sure, it's costly in terms of printing, but it would provide consumers who hold this frustration in the highest regard of major frustrations a reason to once again champion the company.

OR

They can simply provide the 10% shop-worn discount to all games that have been gutted as a permanent policy.

I make every effort to avoid purchasing gutted games ... and when it comes down to it - if it's the only way I can get it, and I mean the absolute only way I can get it, I'll take the gutted game and pay full retail ... but I die a little bit inside every time I do. :(

[norkusa]

This guy sounds like a shill for corporate.

And I love #24: "please, bring in your trades before 8pm". They constantly pester you about bringing in games to trade but bring some in one hour before close, and the employee's whine because they won't get out of work early. Sorry, but as long as the sign on the door says "Open", I'll bring as many games as I want to trade, whenever I want.

[neuropolitique]

I love these "articles" from game store employees that try to tell customers how to shop their stores. If a policy makes a customer unhappy, the customer is not shopping right. Bite me.

[Kitsune Sniper]

3) The biggest misconception regarding gutted games is that we do not allow them returned as new. This is not accurate. A store following CORRECT policy puts a clear adhesive seal on all gutted game cases that are sold, allowing it to be returned as if it were entirely unopened for a full refund so long as the seal is undisturbed. This is sometimes substituted with other stickers or forms of seals, but ALL new games with open cases are meant to be sealed in some way to allow the customer their right to return it as unopened. If you buy a gutted game and they do not put any kind of seal on it, insist on one. They shouldn't be sending you out the door with an unsealed game if it was rung up as new.

(Relevant part bolded for clarity.)

I have never. EVER. Seen this be done in ANY GAMESTOP STORE I'VE BEEN TO. I've been to stores in Texas, Tennessee, and California. NONE OF THEM DID THIS.

Also, I took like 40 DVDs I had lying around today to my local store. I got 40 cents for most of them. I feel cheated, but I wasn't going to watch them and most of them were freebies or dollar DVDs anyway...

[misfits859]

Agreed. An open game simply can not be considered new and the consumer should not have to pay new price...This practice should be investigated by 60 Minutes...

[boatofcar]

Agreed. An open game simply can not be considered new and the consumer should not have to pay new price...This practice should be investigated by 60 Minutes...

That's definitely the kind of investigative journalism 60 Minutes needs to was-I mean, spend their time doing. Just let Andy Rooney cover it.

[roushimsx]

I LOVE the 7 day swap policy on used games. Got me out of a tight pickle with Ghost Recon 2: 2007 on Gamecube (AKA "Titanic Pile of Shit: 2FPS"). I believe it was the only time I had to invoke the policy (there might have been one more....I honestly don't remember and I'm pretty sure there hasn't...), but god damn was I happy it was there.

God, the sting I felt after paying $17 for THAT and realizing how much of a piece of shit it was must have been nothing compared to the people that bought it brand new on GC/PS2 and expected something on par with the Xbox version (which was completely different and a sequel to the PS2/GC version)...

(and people wonder why I actively boycott Ubisoft Shanghai)

But hey, the article was a hell of a lot more interesting to read than that bitchfest that was posted the other day ("WWAAAAAAHHH, we want more obscure games!").

Oh, and something I hate about gutted games: It's like they gave the box cutter to Michael J Fox and had him open up the games half the time. Sweet jesus, how hard is it to trace the crack while cutting off the cellophane & security sticker? I'm sure a number of you have done it before on games and DVDs...it's pretty god damn easy to do it without damaging the case...yet for some damn reason half the time I buy a gutted game, there's deep gouges running along the seam (which reminds me that I need to replace the cases on Xyanide and Cubivore sometime).

[stuffedmonkey]

The manager is a complete tool. In one section he says that a opened "gutted" game is identical to new, in the next he goes to great length to describe that returns can only be accepted if a seal is not broken.

I enjoy that he is going to ahve a really shitty holiday season - filled with idiot parents asking for the "new nintendo"

[djbeatmongrel]

as a past employee of game stop i agree with the article completely. There are good Gamestops/EBs around. unfortunately shitty ones outway the good ones.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

as a past employee of game stop i agree with the article completely. There are good Gamestops/EBs around. unfortunately shitty ones outway the good ones.

So ... what are your thoughts on "gutted" games (that potentially have been "checked out" by employees) being sold at 100% full new retail price?

[DreamTR]

I hate to say it, I don't agree with the whole 1st party/3rd party accessory thing completely. Logitech Wireless stuff is great IF it is PS2/XBOX.

Also, he is saying buy first party stuff, but buy GameStop (3rd party stuff just different brand name)? How hypocritical is that??????

SOme of the factories that are used by SOny and Microsoft and NIntendo are utilized by 3rd party companies for some accessories, so it really depends.

[djbeatmongrel]

So ... what are your thoughts on "gutted" games (that potentially have been "checked out" by employees) being sold at 100% full new retail price?

again its an issue of shitty gamestops and good gamestops. i'll only buy gutted if i see the disc first but its usually from one i frequent.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

again its an issue of shitty gamestops and good gamestops. i'll only buy gutted if i see the disc first but its usually from one i frequent.

Do you think they should be charging full retail for something that may have been taken home and played in an employees home system?

I'm just curious, as we seem to be the only ex-employees chiming in.

[djbeatmongrel]

seeing as i have done so myself (signed out a new game) i don't think its an issue as long as its kept in peak condition. i had only scratched one game that i had signed out but i did buy promptly afterwards.

Think of it this way, would you complain that a new car has a few miles on it becuase the salesman was making sure they knew about the car from first hand experience?

[Trebuken]

I have had them use the seal several times, but they do seem to need quite a bit of training on that score. The managers usually know this happens and will take a return anyways.

You are not required to buy gutted games, why the complaining, simply go somewhere else. They should offer the 'shopworn' discount on gutted games.

I believe the coupons in Game Informer are not supposed to be stackable though the computer seems to allow it (for now).

Remember that the edge card is meant to track customer loyalty and collect data on your purchases so as to enhance their profits -- I suspect this data is why we haven't seen a Buy2Get1 sale lately.

Good read, but has the 'what best for us' attitude. Gamestop has a lack of competition in many areas and high employee turn-over so they do not have to drive customer service as much to get customers...you think Walmart, their nearest competitor, is doing any better?

[vgc]

I feel if the game is opened, it's USED and should be sold as such. If its MINT and was truly only used for a short term demo, maybe they should sell it for a price somewhere between NEW and USED. 7 day FREE Return on a Used game is more than fair. We only offer a 2 day FREE Return if the customer doesn't like the game, but we also let the customer try out any USED Games first. Mike : )

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

seeing as i have done so myself (signed out a new game) i don't think its an issue as long as its kept in peak condition. i had only scratched one game that i had signed out but i did buy promptly afterwards.

Think of it this way, would you complain that a new car has a few miles on it becuase the salesman was making sure they knew about the car from first hand experience?

I understand what you're saying ... but there are so many different analogies that can be made ... I'll just avoid any comparisons to other types of merchandise and reiterate my original feelings on the matter.

As an ex manager of the company, and a longtime game collector - I personally feel that once a game is opened, and the case, instructions, and disc/cartridge have been handled (and potentially used in a system) it is undeniably by definition "used".

And while the consumer does have a choice to simply "not buy it" and look elsewhere for a sealed copy of the game ... I think that Gamestop has a responsibility as a company to at least offer a minor discount on games in that condition. Regardless of how well handled the merchandise is, it's really no longer a "new" product, it's simply an "opened, un-sold & complete" one.

And if you ask somebody who's job it is to "grade condition" on a game, there are distinct differences between "new, un-opened" and "complete"...with no real distinction for "un-sold".

If they don't want to change their business practices - they should at least compensate the most important people in their company : the consumers.

[Jorpho]

7) Everybody decries the nature of the Gamestop employee to push reserves on the uninterested consumer. Please understand, no matter how dedicated an employee may be, on the district level and higher, he is of no value beyond his reserves and Game Informer subscriptions. Nearly any employee is the sum of their reserves, and unfortunately good people who treat customers well will see their job fade away because of poor numbers. A Gamestop worker pushing a reserve on you is trying to keep their job, literally.

I don't get it. Is this not clear and unambiguous justification for a substantial amount of Gamestop bashing? Is it not unreasonable to decry this corporate policy at every opportunity such that it might one day be changed? Wouldn't it be much more pleasant to shop there if the level of courtesy you get shown was independent of the number of preorders you made?

I'm thinking about this too hard.

[Bojay1997]

The fact that this poster confirmed that corporate policy allows employees to "check out" new games is not only interesting, but frankly places them in clear violation of the law in several states including California. These are no longer new items if they have by definition been used for their intended purpose by someone other than the purchaser.

[ChronoTriggaFoo]

I don't get it. Is this not clear and unambiguous justification for a substantial amount of Gamestop bashing? Is it not unreasonable to decry this corporate policy at every opportunity such that it might one day be changed? Wouldn't it be much more pleasant to shop there if the level of courtesy you get shown was independent of the number of preorders you made?

I'm thinking about this too hard.

Oh, no you're not. You've hit it on the head. There's a culture at Gamestop starting from the top down that really stinks. The corporate big-wigs have their employees treading on thin needles constantly. The employees are in constant fear of losing their jobs. So they push these pre-orders on the customers incessantly. And if you're not one of those customers that give in on a regular basis then you are likely not to be serviced favorably as the writing above suggested. This model may be successful for them in the logistics department as far as game orders are concerned, but it fails miserably at creating an inviting and healthy environment for its consumers AND employees.

I've made some "friends" at Gamestops without giving in to their pre-orders pressures in the past, but I eventually found out that they were being friendly so they could take advantage of me later on (trade-in credit converted to a pre-order without my approval SEVERAL TIMES) or guilt trip me into helping them meet their quota. After those kinds of experiences I really haven't been back to Gamestop on a regular basis. I hope the big-wigs in Grapevine are listening to feedback. It's time for a new business model.

[Daria]

(Relevant part bolded for clarity.)

I have never. EVER. Seen this be done in ANY GAMESTOP STORE I'VE BEEN TO. I've been to stores in Texas, Tennessee, and California. NONE OF THEM DID THIS.

Also, I took like 40 DVDs I had lying around today to my local store. I got 40 cents for most of them. I feel cheated, but I wasn't going to watch them and most of them were freebies or dollar DVDs anyway...

I've seen the seal. And I've always requested that they not use it. Generally the employee was cool with it, if not the manager would tell them to pass on the seal. But I did get into a loud verbal argument at one store when they refused to not put the damn sticker on my game. I quit going to that store after the incident.

[Promophile]

The fact that this poster confirmed that corporate policy allows employees to "check out" new games is not only interesting, but frankly places them in clear violation of the law in several states including California. These are no longer new items if they have by definition been used for their intended purpose by someone other than the purchaser.

Exactly. I've been saying this all along. Any aspiring lawyers wanna start a class action?

[ReaXan]

I have always had a sort of resentment from the FuncoLand/Gamestop corporate model. I understand they are trying to make a dollar and I dont mind them wanting to do that,but for goodness sakes they feed off kids who really dont have alot of income coming in living off their parents and know that they will easily sell their games for 10 cents on the dollar in order to get a Halo 3/Gears of War type game because they have no choice.

Its true that kids normally dont take care of games that well and that scratches are always a concern, but if you get a 5 dollar trade in value on a fairly new game because of certain scratches,when its still playable only to learn that they use their buffer machine and then set it out the next day for 24.99 is what really pisses most people off and their buisness model. You feel you were fed a line of bullshit because they know your vulnerable to trade something in when you have played it a million times and become tired of it and to act like the game is worth alot less than scratches even though it doesnt skip a beat. I THINK EVERYONE HERE HAS SCRATCHES ON THEIR DISKS, ITS JUST A WAY OF LIFE


I believe the system trading in policy needs serious work.I understand they have an abundance of xbox's, but why the hell won't they go down on it in price if they can't sell them, I mean its like 70 bucks still when its really worth the 39.99 price the gamecube is. No one wants to buy a used xbox when they can easily spend like 30 or 40 more and get a brand new ps2 slimeline.

Also it pisses me off that they jack up the prices on games that are dirt common, but happen to be really fun. A game like FF7 is dirt common yet they still charge out the frame for it. They take the fun of finding a gem for 5 to 10 bucks that is the appeal to most collectors

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

You know, while I think it could be labeled as a "trivial" news story by most people, and for the most part, it would be ...

... most local television news stations have departments dedicated to doing exposees on businesses that have "unfair business practices".

If the right person compiled the right information and presented it to a local news station (preferably in a major market like NYC) in a mature, professional way (read : NOT a 12 year old calling a news tip-line) ... they might be able to get it on the air, and the non-traditional-game-consumer (AKA the kind of people that companies like Gamestop Inc. DON'T like taking note of business practices like selling used product at full retail price) might actually take note of what the company is doing.

Now, I'm not interested in seeking any type of damages, retribution, or serious damage to the company, as I really don't have any hard feelings for my former employers ... and whether or not a news report would even change anything is anybody's guess ... but I know companies like Game Stop don't like negative news ... especially when it could result in lost sales around the holiday season.

Anybody up to the task?

[PallarAndersVisa]

I'd rather shop for games at K-mart.

"Hey you should pre-order Madden 2010! Hey do you like shooters? Well Halo 4 will probably never come out, but if it does, you can pre-order it right here! Hey you're wearing all blue, do you like Mega Man? Did you hear about Mega Man Battle Network Emissions v. 6.9? Well you know that if you don't pre-order it, we don't get it. thats just the way it works. Do you want to buy an extended warranty on all these games? For just 5 dollars, we will replace this game for two years, even if you break it up into pieces, eat it, shit it out in a cd case and return it to us? Its a steal!"

fuck off game stop.

[Porksta]

I remember pre ordering Madden 2005. I got the automated machine saying they have it and come get it. I drove down to get it and lo and behold, the truck was delayed, making me wait until the next day. No phone call letting me know not to come get it, no automated machine saying "forget everything the last machine said", nope, I was never told. I now make sure I call ahead before buying new.

[Oobgarm]

As another former employee, I fully understand everything this guy is saying.

But the harsh reality is, IT DOESN'T MATTER. GameStop makes 98% of their money from casual and non-hardcore folk.

If people are OK with their policy, let them shop there. THey're obviously fine with whatever policies GameStop is implementing.

If people aren't fine with it, they'll take their business elsewhere. It's going to take a whole shit-ton of people to make any sizeable dent in GameStop's earnings, but if it makes you feel better as a consumer to not do business with them, then so be it, as that's all that really matters in the long run.

[digitalpress]

We only offer a 2 day FREE Return if the customer doesn't like the game, but we also let the customer try out any USED Games first. Mike : )

Mike, how on Earth do you manage that? I've considered it and would love to do it but it would mean a line of kids "trying out" every used game that they're "going to buy". I don't really expect you to share your trade secret but God bless you for pulling that one off.

[heybtbm]

Gamestop policy is, for better or worse, that employees may check out new games that are more than two weeks past their original release so long as they are returned in mint condition.

...and sold as "new"?

Absolutely unacceptable.

[fcw3]

I would probably preorder more if there was a price match policy in place. I get bent out of shape when I preorder a game and find it elsewhere cheaper. I don't care if it is on sale or not.

I especially hate when I'm asked to preorder and the price of the game is unknown.

Best example I can think of was the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon. We preordered a copy at a local Gamestop. (I don't think there was an incentive for it, but I could be wrong). The day it comes out, we go pick it up and the price is $35 ($30 with our deposit). I drive a mile away and Toys R Us has the same game for $30 with a free case (big deal). I bought the game at TRU and promptly drove back to Gamestop and returned my $35 copy.

If you are going to want me to preorder, you need me to feel like I'm not being taken advantage of by appearing to jack up the price. I gave you my money to reserve the game (potentially) months in advance. Don't tell me that $5 is the cost to save my spot in line or some such nonsense.


FRED

[MonoTekETeA]

As another former employee, I fully understand everything this guy is saying.

But the harsh reality is, IT DOESN'T MATTER. GameStop makes 98% of their money from casual and non-hardcore folk.

If people are OK with their policy, let them shop there. THey're obviously fine with whatever policies GameStop is implementing.

If people aren't fine with it, they'll take their business elsewhere. It's going to take a whole shit-ton of people to make any sizeable dent in GameStop's earnings, but if it makes you feel better as a consumer to not do business with them, then so be it, as that's all that really matters in the long run.

Ditto.

Hell, work retail anywhere and the ones that don't pay commission, the employees would rather see you go and get some ice cream next door and just forget about shopping their store entirely. For Gamestop, subs or not, with the general understanding of how people view the company, I wouldn't want people coming into the store if all they are going to do is give you crap.

I like window shopping, just browsing. Stuff that retailers hate. The only reason I still shop at stores is so I can still window shop other days. Something about getting the item by hand and not through mail.

[vgc]

Mike, how on Earth do you manage that? I've considered it and would love to do it but it would mean a line of kids "trying out" every used game that they're "going to buy". I don't really expect you to share your trade secret but God bless you for pulling that one off.


Hello, let me rephrase that. We let people try games they are interested in buying. We ask if they are planning on purchasing that day. You get to know which customeres are real customers and which are just Playing Games pretty quickly. We have had times when people try out games a little too much but thats OK. They dont need alot of attention while playing and you can help out others. We do have a time limit and cut off the game after they get enough time to try it out. Customers don't need to try out games they have already played before either just games they haven't played. Mike : )

[mailman187666]

I've been to a gamestop an hour before they closed. A couple of kids had a Halo 3 on reserve and they had some kind of deal where if you traded games in toward your purchase of halo 3, you get an extra 20% or something like that. Well, the employee working there turned the kids away with the trade-ins (after already explaining they wanted to get the reserve credit) and told them to go to a different gamestop. This is a perfect example of one of the bad gamestops. You should have to go by thier rules of getting good customer service. "Oh if you don't pre-order and buy the magazine, then we will treat you like shit". Not buying that at all so they can fuck themselves on that. "come in at 8 instead of 9 to trade in games or we'll tell you to fuck off" hey, I'm here shopping at your store and you're telling me to fuck off?

I went to a gamestop going to get Eternal Sonata. The kid went to pull the gutted copy without asking if I even minded a gutted copy. I asked "do you have any that are still sealed?" and he replies with, "would I be walking over here if I did?" oohhhh sorry buddy but that bitch ass remark lost your company a $60 sale.

Its not the pre-orders or any of the extra stuff they try to push on me that makes me mad, its policies like "oh I can't take your trade ins" fuck you, you're open till 9, you fucking take those trade-ins.

as far as the gutted games. Go to Best Buy and look at some of thier products. If it is a floor display, they give a discount. If a box has been opened, they sell it as open item for a reasonable discount. Many other retail stores do this as well. I went to buy a 5.1 surround system and they were going to discount $300 off the price tag. Reguardless of what any of the managers or anybody tells you, the gutted games are used, take $5 off, no two ways around that.

[kaedesdisciple]

Solution:

1: Remove discs, manuals and cases from all old used sports titles that aren't selling
2: Recycle paper from inserts and manuals, dispose of discs
3: Send adequate number of each type of blank case to each store
4: Print paper inserts for "display" cases
5: Send paper inserts to each store
6: Instruct store employees to use paper inserts in blank cases
7: Instruct store employees to remove blank display case when no more new copies are / will be available
8: Recycle paper inserts

I know it sounds rather simplistic, but that's one potential way of solving the gutted games problem. The company finds a new use for all of those cases cluttering up their warehouses as well. I also know this won't fly as it would cost money and the company sees so little profit from new game sales anyway. Furthermore, the company doesn't see it as a "problem", the gamers do. As long as the games keep selling through, the policy will not change. Meh, it's nice to dream...

[Rob2600]

Do you think they should be charging full retail for something that may have been taken home and played in an employees home system?

I'm just curious, as we seem to be the only ex-employees chiming in.

I am an ex-employee. I worked at a major video game chain for several years in the late 1990s and early 2000s, before the big merger. I worked my way up the ranks and was eventually offered a store manager position by the district manager. She was a nice woman and we got along well, but the salary she offered me was horrible...only $3,000 more per year than I was already making as an assistant manager...so I declined and left the company shortly afterwards.

Gutting:

My coworkers and I gutted games every day, but we were extremely careful when cutting open the shrink wrap. We'd slice open the bottom, slide the plastic game case out of it, and carefully open the bottom of the game case to take the disc out...without damaging the security seal at the top of the case. Then, we'd snap the bottom of the case shut and slide it back into the shrink wrap.

We'd immediately put the disc in a Ziploc-style bag and alphabetize it in a drawer. In my store, we did not allow game borrowing, so all of our gutted games were not used and were in perfect condition.

If a customer wanted to buy a gutted game, we'd slide the game case out of the shrink wrap, open the bottom part (again, being careful not to damage the security seal at the top), inset the disc, slide the game case back into the shrink wrap, and seal the bottom with a sticker from the home office that stated something like "non-refundable if seal is broken."

99.9% of our customers didn't mind buying gutted games or paying full price for gutted games. Even when I worked at a different location where the games were gutted in the normal, non-anal way, 99.9% of the customers still didn't have a problem with it. The few people who preferred buying factory sealed games either waited for us to get a sealed copy in or bought the game at a different store. We'd suggest trying Sam Goody across the hall or our competitor on the second floor. We didn't mind losing a sale from time to time because we knew the customer would be happy and would come back to us because of that (which they did).

Trade-ins:

My coworkers and I always loved getting trade-ins, even if they were five minutes before we closed. The district manager kept track of our trade-ins, so we looked at it as a nice, easy last-minute boost for our store. My coworkers and I were so good and efficient that we'd have an entire duffel bag worth of trade-ins processed, tagged, organized, and on the shelf within ten minutes. We knew how to search for products in the POS computer system using different department codes, whereas employees from other stores didn't even know what that feature was.

We had no problems taking in consoles from the previous generations (Nintendo 64, PlayStation, original Game Boy, Game Gear, etc.). Other store employees would treat that stuff like useless garbage and throw it somewhere in the back room, believing that it will never sell. That is a horrible attitude. My coworkers and I paid attention to the type of customers who'd shop at our store. Many of them were Latino and would scour our bin of inexpensive PlayStation games every day...so we knew a decent percentage of our customers wanted cheap, fun games and didn't care about hot new releases.

We'd take an old PlayStation or Game Boy that someone just traded in, clean it off, make it look really nice, and package it with used controllers, used memory cards, and a couple of cheap, decent used games. We'd shrink wrap the whole thing into one neat package, put it in the bin for whatever the total price was at the time ($50, $60, whatever), and it would always sell within an hour or two. Other store employees, like the guy who wrote the original post, saw older consoles as junk, but we saw them as a gold mine.

Sales goals:

Our district manager pressured us with Shopper Track, trade-ins, pre-owned sales, player's guides, extended warranties, pre-orders, and Game Doctors. This was before Game Informer subscriptions.

Shoper Track was a sensor that the home office installed in the doorway of every store to track how many people were entering the store vs. how many sales we were making. If 100 people entered the store within an hour and only 10 transactions were made within that time, that was bad. If 20 transactions were made within that time, that was better.

The more trade-ins we took in, the better. The more pre-owned games we sold, the better. (Profit on used games is much, much higher than on new games.) The more Game Doctors we sold, the better. The profit margin on them must've been so high that the company actually gave us a $1 or $2 commission on them. The other stores in my district struggled to sell one or two Game Doctors a week, while my coworkers and I had no problem selling 20 or 30. My store was always at the top in the district with this type of stuff. It was just a matter of talking to our customers like normal people, making them feel comfortable, and...most importantly...giving them what they wanted.

For example, several months after the PlayStation 2 was released, PS2 memory cards were selling like crazy. Every other store in the mall was sold out of them, but once in a while we'd get some in. We knew people were going to buy them no matter what, so we used our brains to boost our store's numbers and included a one-year extended warranty in the price. We'd sell the $30 memory cards for $35. That's $5 of pure profit on top of the profit we were already making on the memory card itself. Customers would come in and ask if we had any in stock, expecting us to say no. We'd say yes and the customers would be amazed and excited. It might sound sneaky and tricky, but they were happy to pay $35 and were even happier that their memory cards were insured for a year. They wanted a memory card very badly and we wanted to boost our store's numbers very badly. It was a win-win situation.

Within six months, we were able to turn one of the lowest ranked stores in the region into one of the highest ranked stores in the region. It was a combination of creative thinking and being really, really friendly to our customers. We'd greet them, ask them what they're currently playing, ask them their opinions about games, ask them what future releases they're excited about, etc. In turn, they'd ask us for our thoughts and opinions too, and took us seriously.

[GrandAmChandler]

Several months after the PlayStation 2 was released, PS2 memory cards were selling like crazy. Every other store in the mall was sold out of them, but we'd get some in. Our trick was to include a one-year extended warranty in the price...so we'd sell the $30 memory cards for $35. Customers would come in and ask if we had any in stock, expecting us to say no. We'd say yes and the customers would be amazed and excited. It might sound sneaky and tricky, but they were happy to pay $35 and were even happier that their memory cards were insured for a year. They wanted a memory card and we wanted to boost our store's numbers. It was a win-win situation.




Sounds like you deceived the customer. A big no-no if the higher ups knew that.

Right

"We have Playstation 2 memory cards in stock! They are $29.99, and for only $5.00 more you can extend the warranty of the product to a full year in case something goes wrong!"

Wrong

"Playstation 2 memory cards are $34.99 and come with a 1 year warranty." :shameful:

"If you want to purchase a Playstation 2 memory card, you have to purchase the $5.00 1-year extended warranty with the memory card." :shameful:

Both wrong ways are deceitful and harmful to the customer. I have caught EBs and Gamestop employees try to add that extra price on before. Guess what, every time they were reported, they no longer worked for the company.

Honesty is the best policy. Now THAT's a Win-Win situation.

http://warnerkirby.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/the_more_you_know775718.jpg

[Rob2600]

Sounds like you deceived the customer. A big no-no if the higher ups knew that.

I understand and agree with you, but the reality of the situation was that our customers didn't mind us doing that. I know, I know...that doesn't mean it was right. Of course, we stopped doing that once the memory cards were plentiful.

You call it deceitful; we called it creative thinking. :)

Keep in mind, it's easy for you or me to sit in front of our computer monitors and state that something like that is wrong, but when district managers are keeping track of each store's sales data and sending out emails every week comparing stores to each other and calling every day asking about sales goals and threatening to cut hours if the profit margin doesn't pick up, we had to do what we had to do.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I am an ex-employee. I worked at a major video game chain for several years in the late 1990s and early 2000s, before the big merger. I worked my way up the ranks and was eventually offered a store manager position by the district manager. She was a nice woman and we got along well, but the salary she offered me was horrible...only $3,000 more per year than I was already making as an assistant manager...so I declined and left the company shortly afterwards.

Gutting:

My coworkers and I gutted games every day, but we were extremely careful when cutting open the shrink wrap. We'd slice open the bottom, slide the plastic game case out of it, and carefully open the bottom of the game case to take the disc out...without damaging the security seal at the top of the case. Then, we'd snap the bottom of the case shut and slide it back into the shrink wrap.

We'd immediately put the disc in a Ziploc-style bag and alphabetize it in a drawer. In my store, we did not allow game borrowing, so all of our gutted games were not used and were in perfect condition.

If a customer wanted to buy a gutted game, we'd slide the game case out of the shrink wrap, open the bottom part (again, being careful not to damage the security seal at the top), inset the disc, slide the game case back into the shrink wrap, and seal the bottom with a sticker from the home office that stated something like "non-refundable if seal is broken."

99.9% of our customers didn't mind buying gutted games or paying full price for gutted games. Even when I worked at a different location where the games were gutted in the normal, non-anal way, 99.9% of the customers still didn't have a problem with it. The few people who preferred buying factory sealed games either waited for us to get a sealed copy in or bought the game at a different store. We'd suggest trying Sam Goody across the hall or our competitor on the second floor. We didn't mind losing a sale from time to time because we knew the customer would be happy and would come back to us because of that (which they did).



I'm not sure if by quoting me if you were focusing on the "ex-employee" part of my statement, or the "gutted games" portion ...

... but if you were trying to share your opinion on the "gutted games" issue - I feel like again, it has come down to "our customers didn't mind" mentality.

And while you have good first hand experience of the situation, and fortunately didn't have to experience going against your personal feelings of participating in "unfair/dishonest business practices" (like myself for so many years) - you also seem to be missing the point of my issue.

I suppose I'll have to go into "generalizations" here to clarify my point, but I'll try to avoid comparing apples to oranges.

In any retail environment a product that comes from the manufacturer in a "sealed" state with security stickers and factory shrink-wrap that, in the instance of modern game case shrink-wraps, can NOT be duplicated by retail stores with shrink-wrap machines should ONLY be considered "new" if it is sold in that exact state.

If a game has it's shrink-wrap seal broken, and security stickers cut or removed, it is no longer in "new" condition.

Whether the game is handled by human hands for a fraction of a second before being dumped into a paper envelope, or for an entire weekend at a GameStop employee's house - REGARDLESS of the fact that it has not gone through the process of being "rung up", it is no longer a "new" product - and to sell it to a consumer as one, is an unfair business practice.

Since you commented on Sam Goody, let's take a look at a contemporary company along the lines of Sam Goody (who are now defunct as a corporation) - Suncoast Video.

Suncoast stores (a subsidiary of FYE stores) deal primarily with DVD movies. And in some cases, Suncoast stores carry NEW video games, much like Sam Goody did.

For the most part, Suncoast stores do not have much larger retail square footage than the typical GameStop store, and in the case of DVD "movies" they carry a MUCH larger stock of titles "new" on DVD than most GameStops do "new" DVD -case games.

(The potential argument for "not enough store space for new titles on display" should be squashed here ... as most GameStop employees and managers should be able to verify - in the case of "NEW" product, it rarely ever fills a single glass display area behind the counter.)

Do they "gut" movies at Suncoast? No. They do not. New movies are available in a display area - complete in new, original factory shrink wrap most times with no additional security devices.

Would you tolerate the "gutting" of new DVD's that you're purchasing from a retail environment like Suncoast (perhaps on a weekly basis)?

Can you think of any other retail chain that practices this procedure in part or in whole (opening a factory new product, potentially using it for days or weeks, and then selling it to consumers at FULL RETAIL PRICE) with virtually NO compensation / discount to the consumer?

I can't.

(And I'd love to get Joe's two cents on this issue, as I can't recall ever seeing this kind of thing happen at the Digital Press store ... granted it might happen, I've just never been witness to it.)

I think a major problem here is that GameStop inc. has developed an "unfair, yet tolerated retail culture". In most cases - people who want that "gutted" game, and can't find it anywhere else are left with little to no alternative but to buy it - and when they're offered NO compensation for buying what is essentially a no-longer-new product - they simply cave. This act of caving has happened so often, and happens on such a regular basis, that GameStop inc. had decided that they can simply employ it as a "practice".

And, another a major problem is that no "business standards/practices" organization is looking into the practice and/or levying any type of punitive actions on them for creating this type of retail culture...

How many times as an employee have you proceeded to sell a "gutted" game to a consumer who explains "but this is for a birthday/holiday present, I need it to be NEW." ... that statement should be all the evidence that one needs as to what the general consumer EXPECTS of a new product (and that part of the general game-buying-public may either be completely ignorant to the practice of selling not-new as new OR they may have actually purchased a "gutted" game in the past and been dissatisfied with the condition/quality of the product).

I digress.

The short short is that what's going on here is in fact an unfair business practice, it's simply one that's been TOLERATED for years because Sally and Johnny gamer simply MUST have their copy of "Nintendogs : Rabies Edition" or "Halo 4" DAY AND DATE of release, and GameStop inc has built a culture of misinformation around it.

There is NO legitimate reason for "gutting" games. There are several clear alternatives to get packages out on the retail sales floor for customers to "handle" (dummy game boxes with inserts and/or security plastic covers, or both), and no other major game retailer handles their quote-unquote "new" products like the GameStop family of stores does.

[heybtbm]

Keep in mind, it's easy for you or me to sit in front of our computer monitors and state that something like that is wrong, but when district managers are keeping track of each store's sales data and sending out emails every week comparing stores to each other and calling every day asking about sales goals and threatening to cut hours if the profit margin doesn't pick up, we had to do what we had to do.

Weak.

[xfrumx]

Gamestop always have the "Not For Resale" cases promoting games before the come out. They could just use those but half the time if they get a NFR DS game they wil throw it in that box and sell it as used.

[Rob2600]

If a game has it's shrink-wrap seal broken, and security stickers cut or removed, it is no longer in "new" condition.

I understand your point. I really do. But on the other hand, it comes down to the customers' needs. If the majority of customers demand that games not be gutted, GameStop would stop doing it. However, the reality is that the majority of customers don't mind.

If a customer were buying a gutted game as a gift for someone, I'd always offer to shrink wrap the game and make it look perfect (clean case, no ugly stickers, etc.). Most of the time, the customer was happy with that. If not, then I'd recommend he or she try a few different stores in the mall while I kept the gutted copy on hold. If none of the other stores had it in stock, my perfect-condition gutted game was there as a backup.

I know this might sound silly, but people don't mind paying over $20,000 for a car that's been test driven numerous times by numerous people. Then again, most people aren't hard core car collectors or hard core video game collectors.

I think the easiest, simplest solution for hard core video game collectors is to not buy gutted games. Problem solved. Why raise hell over something that 99% of customers are fine with?

Overall though, I must admit that I hate shopping at GameStop or most retail stores (Best Buy, Circuit City, etc.). It seems like the vast majority of retail employees...at least in NYC...goof off, talk to each other, ignore the customers, act grumpy, and know nothing about the products they sell. Just once, I'd like a store employee to ask me what I'm looking for and to show me exactly where it is instead of just grunting and pointing down an aisle.

[esquire]

Two things that stuck out for me:

1. Although I am not bothered by buying opened new games as others here are, I cannot for the life of me figure out how they can sell the game as new if they are letting their employees take the game home after two weeks on the shelf. I am sorry but that game is no longer "new". THAT PRACTICE NEEDS TO STOP IMMEDIATELY, AND IS ASKING FOR A CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT TO BE BROUGHT.

2. 30 days to return a sealed game, no questions asked,while only 7 days if opened and defective? Anyone else see the problem here? What if you don't open your game until after 7 days (but before 30 days) and discover a defect at that point? You are screwed. This can be a problem where the game is being bought as a gift. I personally would never buy from Gamestop a game as a gift for another person simply for that reason alone. Why not go 30/30 on the returns?

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I understand your point. I really do. But on the other hand, it comes down to the customers' needs. If the majority of customers demanded that games not be gutted, GameStop would stop doing it. However, the reality is that the majority of customers don't mind.

If a customer were buying a gutted game as a gift for someone, I'd offer to shrink wrap the game and make it look perfect (clean case, no ugly stickers, etc.). Most of the time, the customer was fine with that. If not, I'd then recommend he or she try a few different stores in the mall.

I know this might sound silly, but people don't mind paying over $20,000 for a car that's been test driven numerous times by numerous people. Then again, most people aren't hard core car collectors or hard core video game collectors.

I think the easiest, simplest solution for hard core video game collectors is to not buy gutted games. Problem solved. Why raise hell over something that 99% of customers are fine with?

I also understand where you're coming from, however -

A portion of my initial point is that what goes/went on in your particular GameStop store is not a litmus test for company's consumer base as a whole.

I think your estimation of 99% of the customers being "okay" with it is over-reaching.

If it were possible to take some type of non-biased at-the-register poll of the entire company, and every time a gutted game were sold, the consumer reaction was noted -

with reactions ranging from but not limited to:

1. didn't purchase due to gutted condition
2. needed concept of "gutted" game explained to them/was hesitant to purchase
3. had absolutely NO reaction to being sold an open product as "new"

I'd venture to guess that you'd have very few instances of ZERO hesitation.

I was with the company for close to 5 years in a SM role, and I worked in several stores in my market.

If I were to estimate to the best of my memory and multiply the amount of consumers over a five year period who took issue with a "gutted" game being sold to them at full retail price, and make an educated assumption that this is not a reaction/trend isolated to Northern New Jersey (read: gamers are pretty much the same all over the country, with the exception of NASCAR and Cabella Hunting games being more popular the further south one goes of the Mason/Dixon line)...

... I'd say at the very least, I'm going to have a company-wide consumer dissatisfaction percentage of more than ONE percent.

It really is a matter of corporate culture. GameStop says it's okay, so regardless of what anybody says - it must be okay.

I went to several manager conferences in Tennessee, I vividly remember that it was a sore subject that couldn't be avoided, yet also couldn't really be discussed at private meetings with the higher-ups.

At this point, what it's really going to take is for the "right" customer (i.e. one with a strong legal presence in business law) to get burned by the "gutted games" policy and take action in terms of "false advertising" laws.

And I bet it will happen at some point. We live in a country obsessed with legality, frivolous or otherwise. Until then ... I'll just have to continue being frustrated with what I clearly see to be unfair and dishonest business.

And, for the record, I'd be completely satisfied with Gamestop making it a company-wide policy to offer (with no hastle of speaking with a Manager and begging for a manual shop-worn discount) consumers as little as 10% off on a "gutted" game.

[fcw3]

Why raise hell over something that 99% of customers are fine with?


I think the problem here isn't what people will tolerate. It is that 99% of the customers are ignorant of this process and the inherent flaws of it. Most of them do not know that employees can sign-out those games.

With what other products would you tolerate this practice ?
Clothing ?
People buy clothes and return them after wearing them once. If they are well maintained, should a retailer sell them as "new" ? Would you buy a shirt as new that you KNEW was previously worn ? Would it be OK if it was just an employee that wore it ? What about clothes that were other customer's tried on, reracked and sold as new ? Is that similiar to Gamestop's practice ?
Food ?
"I carefully removed the Snickers bar from the wrapper and placed it in a ziploc baggie. This is so I can leave the wrapper on the shelf and I don't have to worry about the candy bar being stolen."
DVDs?
Someone already commented on this using Suncoast as an example.
Video Game Hardware?
Demo models and open boxes of hardware are often sold at a discount. Would you buy a "new" XBox 360 or PS3 at full price that an employee had taken home and played ?

Show me another major retailer that has this same practice for another sealed product.

FRED

[Dingo]

As a current GameStop employee, I understand where the guy who wrote that is coming from but I was a customer long before I was an employee so I can understand why people dislike some of the company policies. While I won't comment on every single point he mentions, I will share my thoughts on some of it:

- Gutted new games: Personally, I've never checked out a new game for three reason; one, I take a long time to play through games and would never have a chance to progress in the game, I prefer owning the game just because I like collecting, and last but not least I think about how the customer would feel about buying a pre-played game at full price. I understand where everyone comes from about wanting a discount if the game is the gutted copy you buy, but there has to be a display copy, but I do understand the point there.

- Pre-orders: I maintain decent pre-order and discount card sales numbers, but I have been in game stores that really hound you for either one (Funcoland did this very badly when I was younger) and I can agree that it gets annoying. What we do at our store is, if you're buying a game for the PlayStation 2, we will grab the list of games coming out for the PS2 and let you look through the list while we grab the game(s) for you. I'll usually ask if the customer seen anything they're interested in, ask if they've ever reserved with us (if no I give a run down of how the policy works), and then ask if they'd like to pre-order; if the answer is no, I respect it and move on.

- Discount card: This is pretty much the same case as the pre-orders but I just wanted to keep this seperate. Our store is fairly small so most of our customers have a discount card already, but if someone is buying a fairly high priced game or trading in some games that amount to a decent amount of store credit (and if they don't have the card), I'll run down how it works etc. etc. and ask if they'd like to get it. As with pre-orders, if the answer is no, I move on.

- Trading in games before closing: This is pretty sad for the writer to say, but I'll address it. It is true that the stores are alloted a set amount of hours each week for payroll, and if they are under or over I assume the manager gets in trouble (I'm only a Game Advisor, I'm unsure as to what happens); but if someone brings in 50 trades five minutes before closing we take them in. It doesn't take that long to takes some trade ins and get the customers done with their transaction, but if we see that we just don't have enough time to put the game cases up or something, we will put them in order and leave them for the next day employees.

That's the main highlights of my feelings towards the article. All the other points I found to not be that big of a deal and just didn't mention them. As for some employees saying that you "Will not get *insert game name here* if you do not reserve", that's just bad practice and I would personally never say that (as far as I go is just saying that it makes sure we get a copy for you so you will not have to worry if we do sell out). I hope my opinions didn't come off as bias in anyway, and I appologize if there are any grammar errors or typos in my opinions as I really didn't take time to proof read.

[Porksta]

I understand and agree with you, but the reality of the situation was that our customers didn't mind us doing that. I know, I know...that doesn't mean it was right. Of course, we stopped doing that once the memory cards were plentiful.

You call it deceitful; we called it creative thinking. :)

Keep in mind, it's easy for you or me to sit in front of our computer monitors and state that something like that is wrong, but when district managers are keeping track of each store's sales data and sending out emails every week comparing stores to each other and calling every day asking about sales goals and threatening to cut hours if the profit margin doesn't pick up, we had to do what we had to do.

I also am sure customers wouldn't mind you having a 50% off the whole store sale, so you should have one of those as well.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Dingo,

yes, there should be a display copy, however "gutting" is not the only alternative.

Gamestop is the one of the only major game retail companies that takes part in this practice.

Since all of your POS systems can monitor how many of a current game is "in stock" - there's no reason why you can't have dummy boxes on the shelves and just remove them when you've sold the last copy of any given game.

Or, since most Gamestop stores have security sensor door walk-throughs, simply place new copies on the shelves with plastic security box tags over them.

Of course I'm not actually telling "you" to take these actions within your company, I'm simply illustrating other industry standard alternatives that would 100% eliminate the issue of "gutted" games and unfair business practices.

However, you're proving my point of it being "created/taught/learned" "corporate culture" (i.e. it's the way we do things, the way we've always done things, and the way that we'll continue to do things) within a company, and how it's defended to non-employees of said company.

[Snapple]

I don't get it. Is this not clear and unambiguous justification for a substantial amount of Gamestop bashing? Is it not unreasonable to decry this corporate policy at every opportunity such that it might one day be changed? Wouldn't it be much more pleasant to shop there if the level of courtesy you get shown was independent of the number of preorders you made?

I'm thinking about this too hard.

I think they're saying that on this point, be mad at the policy if you want, but don't be mad at the employee for doing their job by encouraging reservations.


I'm not that anal about the gutted games personally, because I rarely if ever buy new, sealed games. I'd rather have a near-mint, used, complete copy, and the extra ten bucks in my pocket.

[fcw3]

I'm not that anal about the gutted games personally, because I rarely if ever buy new, sealed games. I'd rather have a near-mint, used, complete copy, and the extra ten bucks in my pocket.

And I think that is the point. When you buy a gutted game you are buying a near-mint, used, complete copy but you aren't getting the extra ten bucks in your pocket !

FRED

[Dingo]

Frankie,

You are right that there should be a different way about it; and you're also right about the fact about it being "corporate culture" since that's the way it has always been done in the GameStop stores. As a small collector of games/genres I enjoy I really wish they would change over to a simple "display box" instead of having a gutted case of the game. If I could do something to change it, I would try, but being only a Game Advisor all I can do is hope along with the rest of you.

[Rob2600]

With what other products would you tolerate this practice ?
Clothing ?
People buy clothes and return them after wearing them once. If they are well maintained, should a retailer sell them as "new" ? Would you buy a shirt as new that you KNEW was previously worn ? Would it be OK if it was just an employee that wore it ? What about clothes that were other customer's tried on, reracked and sold as new ? Is that similiar to Gamestop's practice ?
Food ?
"I carefully removed the Snickers bar from the wrapper and placed it in a ziploc baggie. This is so I can leave the wrapper on the shelf and I don't have to worry about the candy bar being stolen."

That happens with clothing all the time. I have no idea who or how many people have tried on a pair of pants, shoes, or a shirt before I buy it...yet, it's still considered new! Should we file a class action lawsuit?

That also happens with books and magazines. People go to Barnes and Noble, read the books and magazines, and put them back on the shelves. They are used, yet Barnes and Noble has the nerve to sell them as new! Should we file a class action lawsuit?

That also happens with cars. People test drive cars all the time. That means they're used, but dealerships still sell them as new! Should we file a class action lawsuit?

Food is a different story because it is perishable. An unsealed snack can have bacteria on it and make people ill. However, an unsealed video game can't cause illness.

[Rob2600]

I also am sure customers wouldn't mind you having a 50% off the whole store sale, so you should have one of those as well.

I'm talking about things that benefit both the customer and the company.

Keep in mind, I'm not defending or promoting GameStop. Like I wrote in a previous post, I can't stand most retail employees or stores. I'm just sharing my experiences from several years ago. For better or worse, I was paid to do a job and good things happen to stores that consistently rank at the top every week.


I'd be completely satisfied with Gamestop making it a company-wide policy to offer (with no hastle of speaking with a Manager and begging for a manual shop-worn discount) consumers as little as 10% off on a "gutted" game.

I agree. That would make sense and would be a good solution. I bet if that were implemented, many GameStop stores would stop gutting games. 10% off a new game is a decent chunk of profit margin that store managers probably wouldn't want to sacrifice. As a result, I'm sure they'd come up with other ways of displaying games.

[Bojay1997]

That happens with clothing all the time. I have no idea who or how many people have tried on a pair of pants, shoes, or a shirt before I buy it...yet, it's still considered new! Should we file a class action lawsuit?

That also happens with books and magazines. People go to Barnes and Noble, read the books and magazines, and put them back on the shelves. They are used, yet Barnes and Noble has the nerve to sell them as new! Should we file a class action lawsuit?

That also happens with cars. People test drive cars all the time. That means they're used, but dealerships still sell them as new! Should we file a class action lawsuit?

Food is a different story because it is perishable. An unsealed snack can have bacteria on it and make people ill. However, an unsealed video game can't cause illness.

There are certain classifications of goods exempted under the laws of many states which allow certain classes of goods to be returned without changing their classification to used. Unsoiled clothing and cars are two of those goods. In the case of cars, however, if the dealer takes you on a test drive in California and forgets to put on a dealer plate and someone catches it, the car becomes classified as used under California law. You might think it's a joke, but I used to represent manufacturers and dealers and it happened at least twice that I can recall when overzealous police officers decided to pull over a car on a test drive as the result of a ticketable offense and triggered the whole issue. Similarly, if someone buys a car and it gets repo'ed, it has to be disclosed to the subsequent buyer, even if the initial buyer didn't have the chance to drive the vehicle in the time they had it.
Video games are not exempt from any state law regarding the classification of new goods that I'm aware of.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

There are certain classifications of goods exempted under the laws of many states which allow certain classes of goods to be returned without changing their classification to used.

Video games are not exempt from any state law regarding the classification of new goods that I'm aware of.

And this is at the core of what I'm talking about. There are already laws in place to protect consumers from this type of practice ... they're just being ignored by GameStop, and violations are not being reported to the proper consumer law authorities by GameStop customers ... because, well, as long as they get their copy of whatever game they want, it becomes a non-issue.

GameStop relies on a tremendous level of apathy by consumers nationwide for it to operate thousands of stores which utilize the "gutted" games practice.

As it's been said by some, "most" gamers don't care about "gutted" games ... and "most" probably don't. But as long as "some" do care, that's all it takes. I've worked for companies that have changed entire company policies due to just the threat of one single lawsuit for improper business practices.

All it's going to take is an educated, motivated person in the area of consumer law to somehow get burned by this policy, and subsequently take action, and I can almost guarantee that we'll see a drastic change in business by GameStop Inc.

[Promophile]

Bojay, you seem to have professional legal training. Do you have the time and energy to file a class action? At the very least it will get you on the evening news :)

[G-Boobie]

You know, I went to buy Silent Hill 0rigins and Call of Duty 4 today at my local GameStop. They had sold my goddamn preorder for Silent Hill to someone else, and apparently got NO extra copies of CoD 4. The dumb fuck behind the counter told me I should have preordered it. I told him that took some balls to say to me, cancelled all my preorders, and went to Best Buy... You know, where they actually carry new fucking games.

I argue that even if I HAD preordered CoD 4, they would have sold my fucking preorder anyway.

Fuck GameStop. It's the internet and Best Buy for me.

[Daria]

Wasn't Gamestop already sued for selling used product as new?

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17910&highlight=gamestop+lawsuit

What was the final outcome of this suit?

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Wasn't Gamestop already sued for selling used product as new?

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17910&highlight=gamestop+lawsuit

What was the final outcome of this suit?

http://www.gamestop.com/gs/help/classaction.asp

Wow, there was a lawsuit.

Full disclosure on their website ...

... and ... the ... proposed settlement ...

... wait.

what?

is that some kind of JOKE?

If you were sold a used game as a new game, you were eligible for a ...

COUPON FOR FIVE FREAKING PERCENT OFF A PURCHASE?!?!?

FIVE PERCENT?!?!

OMG, that's just ridiculous. They might as well just give them a free issue of Game Informer and call it a day.

I wonder if this lawsuit being settled has caused a legal precedent for the company that pretty much allows them to LEGALLY continue the heinous business practice of "gutted" games being sold at full new retail price.

Any legal experts in the house?

[Icarus Moonsight]

The whole mess boils down to how the company treats people. They don't value their employees nor their customers -- they only value their stock price/grade and the money you can either fork over (as a customer) or tap into (as an employee) for them. Hence their customers and workers are completely disposable. Many large companies practice this as well, but most try and at least obscure or skirt the issue. Unlike GS, who are so blasé and unconcerned about it. I guess that bothers me the most. That and the guy who wrote this is an obvious mouthpiece spewing forth the corporate spin in an attempt to relate. Such bullshit.

Games
Gear
Knowledge
Anal Rape

[Daria]

You know... I could forgive the whole preorder/stickers/gutted games crap. And I have for years. But what I really hate about Gamestop is ever since they bought up all their competition, particuarily EB games, is that their used prices suck. Once Upon a time I could walk into GameStop and find a decent game in the $15 to $30 range. I know I'm cheap... but when buying used product that's my budget, anything more and I might as well have bought a brand new copy. But now every game is $40 at the lowest. Of course there's a bin for $10 and up (wft? Up?) games in every store but they're always littered with XboX and launch PS2 titles in really poor condition.

I haven't bothered to buy anything from GameStop in the longest time... if I'm going to pay top dollar I may as well buy the game brand new from Best Buy/Circut City/TRU or if it's remotely uncommon, online. At least those stores occasionally mark down their games.

[The 1 2 P]

You know, while I think it could be labeled as a "trivial" news story by most people, and for the most part, it would be ...

... most local television news stations have departments dedicated to doing exposees on businesses that have "unfair business practices".

If the right person compiled the right information and presented it to a local news station (preferably in a major market like NYC) in a mature, professional way (read : NOT a 12 year old calling a news tip-line) ... they might be able to get it on the air, and the non-traditional-game-consumer (AKA the kind of people that companies like Gamestop Inc. DON'T like taking note of business practices like selling used product at full retail price) might actually take note of what the company is doing.

Now, I'm not interested in seeking any type of damages, retribution, or serious damage to the company, as I really don't have any hard feelings for my former employers ... and whether or not a news report would even change anything is anybody's guess ... but I know companies like Game Stop don't like negative news ... especially when it could result in lost sales around the holiday season.

Anybody up to the task?

As soon as I pass the BAR exam--I'm all over this!!

[kaedesdisciple]

The whole mess boils down to how the company treats people. They don't value their employees nor their customers -- they only value their stock price/grade and the money you can either fork over (as a customer) or tap into (as an employee) for them. Hence their customers and workers are completely disposable. Many large companies practice this as well, but most try and at least obscure or skirt the issue. Unlike GS, who are so blasé and unconcerned about it. I guess that bothers me the most. That and the guy who wrote this is an obvious mouthpiece spewing forth the corporate spin in an attempt to relate. Such bullshit.

Games
Gear
Knowledge
Anal Rape

You forgot another one of their core values: Buying out all of their competition so they can set used game prices as high as they want and their trade in prices as low as they want without any fear of retribution.

[Icarus Moonsight]

No, I didn't forget that. Rather neglected to mention it for brevity. Plus, it falls under the "treat folks like shit" umbrella anyway so it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. lol