October sales for North America

[j_factor]

The numbers are out...

Hardware:

* Wii -- 519,000
* Nintendo DS -- 458,000
* Xbox 360 -- 366,000
* PlayStation Portable -- 286,000
* PlayStation 2 -- 184,000
* PlayStation 3 -- 121,000

Software (top 10):

* Halo 3 (Xbox 360) -- 433,800
* Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock w/ guitar (Xbox 360) -- 383, 200
* Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock w/ guitar (Wii) -- 286,300
* Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock w/ guitar (PlayStation 2) -- 271,100
* The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass (Nintendo DS) -- 262,800
* Wii Play w/ remote (Wii) -- 239,700
* The Orange Box (Xbox 360) -- 238,400
* Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock w/o guitar (PlayStation 2) -- 231,700
* FIFA Soccer 08 (PlayStation 2) -- 129,700
* Brain Age 2: More Training in Minutes a Day (Nintendo DS) -- 116,900

[swlovinist]

Gosh the PS3 is still getting a black eye....

[gum_drops]

It will be more interesting to see the November numbers. The 399 ps3 system and new ad campaign will drive numbers up. How close the ps3 can close the gap on the 360 is the question.

[swlovinist]

I just dont see the PS3 gaining ground. The Xbox 360 has one heck up a holiday lineup, alongside the Wii with Mario Galaxy in its corner. I think that the PS3 will sell more in November, but I think that the other systems will sell ALOT more.

[smokehouse]

I’m surprised to see the PS3 doing so poorly. I knew from the start that a console with that price point would sag in sales but not to this extent. On the flip side, I knew the Wii would do well but not THIS well. The problem with the PS3 is that it’s too advanced (yes, I just said TOO advanced). The fact that it relies heavily on HD coupled with the fact that many if not most gamers do not have a HD set is killing it.

A Blu Ray player is useless without a HD set. I know this is no amazing piece of information but figuring that the PS2 having a DVD player pushed it so well, Sony was banking on this happening again but they forgot to look at the HD set market saturation (which is tiny). They also forgot to notice that a majority of their market is gamers without a ton of $$ to spend. Think of haw many PS2s are scattered about hooked up to secondary older TV’s and in kids rooms. This market is completely null with the PS3 as few homes have HD sets and the majority that do have only one…NOT in the kid’s room/den/basement.

This truly has been an interesting round in gaming…

[neuropolitique]

Top 10 seems pretty evenly distibuted amongst the players. I'm guessing one of the Guitar Hero III's is for PS3, otherwise every console has 2 games, along with the DS. The PS2 will never die, it seems.

*edit* nevermind, just saw the other guitar hero is without the guitar. I'm abit surprised the PS3 has no showing in the top ten. As has been said previously, I'd expecct that to change next month.

[Policenaut]

Do you guys know from which site the info was taken? Anyway, the future don't seem so bright for the PS3.

[j_factor]

I'm surprised to see Guitar Hero dominating the charts like that. I know Guitar Hero is popular, but they've been cranking them out really fast.

I'm also surprised that 360 took such a dive compared to the previous month. I know its September sales were only high because of Halo 3, but I thought Halo 3 would have longer coattails. It's at the top of the charts for October but its effect on 360 sales seems to have already disappeared. It seems Microsoft fired their only clip and have no more ammo.

[j_factor]

Do you guys know from which site the info was taken?

Here (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3164417) and here (http://www.joystiq.com/2007/11/15/october-npd-wii-ds-dethrone-xbox-360/) and here (http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/11/npd-october-wii.html).

[diskoboy]

It will be more interesting to see the November numbers. The 399 ps3 system and new ad campaign will drive numbers up. How close the ps3 can close the gap on the 360 is the question.

Actually, I don't think alot of people will go for the 40GB PS3. Because people that didn't own a PS2 will want backwards compatibility. And I still think most people will think the 80GB model is still way overpriced.

Now about the Wii.... I'm having a hard time believing they are selling so many systems, when there are practically no software titles on the charts. I'm sure Mario Galaxy will be a different story, but now that Nintendo has released all their big guns, what's next? My Wii hardly ever gets touched.

[j_factor]

Now about the Wii.... I'm having a hard time believing they are selling so many systems, when there are practically no software titles on the charts.

I think Wii Sports (and maybe Wii Play) sells a lot of Wiis. Beyond that, I imagine that Wii owners aren't all gravitating to the same games or something. There's a lot of niche games.


I'm sure Mario Galaxy will be a different story, but now that Nintendo has released all their big guns, what's next?

Mario Galaxy will easily carry into December (along with, perhaps, to a lesser extent, RE Umbrella Chronicles and Mario & Sonic Olympics). Early next year, Smash Bros. and Wii Fit will be huge. Personally, I don't give a damn about either, but I think they will both be really popular. Wii Fit could be for the Wii what Brain Age was for the DS.


My Wii hardly ever gets touched.

Mine gets lots of use... maybe you need to acquire more games.

[Hep038]

I think Wii Sports (and maybe Wii Play) sells a lot of Wiis. Beyond that, I imagine that Wii owners aren't all gravitating to the same games or something. There's a lot of niche games.



Mario Galaxy will easily carry into December (along with, perhaps, to a lesser extent, RE Umbrella Chronicles and Mario & Sonic Olympics). Early next year, Smash Bros. and Wii Fit will be huge. Personally, I don't give a damn about either, but I think they will both be really popular. Wii Fit could be for the Wii what Brain Age was for the DS.



Mine gets lots of use... maybe you need to acquire more games.


Funny because I have seen quite a few threads with people saying they are not playing their Wii as much. And these are DP members who I would think being collectors whould have more games than the average user.

[mezrabad]

I'm using my Wii to watch anime online via the Internet Channel more than I use it to play games. My family and I use the Everybody Votes channel, just because it's fun and my kids keep making and revising their collection of Miis. How much software do we have? Sports. Play. Twighlight Princess. That's it. Of course, there's Wii software out there that we want, but we're just not up to paying the prices for the new software for current gen systems. When the software starts hitting between $15 and $25 we'll probably get more, though we're really not looking very hard. Is it possible that the Wii's pack-in is too good? That it's satisfying and fun enough that more people aren't bothering to get other software because of it?

Thanks for posting the figures, btw.

[Policenaut]

Here (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3164417) and here (http://www.joystiq.com/2007/11/15/october-npd-wii-ds-dethrone-xbox-360/) and here (http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/11/npd-october-wii.html).

Thanks,Thanks and Thanks!

[notoriusvig]

I like my Wii and play it the most out of all my consoles. I share the same opinion that the games are too expensive but gamefly helps out with that. I just don't really get the hate for the software on the Wii at all. With all the 1st party games that have come out recently and 3rd party games like Resident Evil:UC, Zack and Wiki, Table Tennis, and Victorious Boxers, among others, what's not to like?

[Melf]

I'm also surprised that 360 took such a dive compared to the previous month. I know its September sales were only high because of Halo 3, but I thought Halo 3 would have longer coattails. It's at the top of the charts for October but its effect on 360 sales seems to have already disappeared. It seems Microsoft fired their only clip and have no more ammo.

Just about everyone who was going to buy Halo 3 did so at launch. It dropped so much because it made the bulk of its sales in the first three days, and I don't think we'll see any game save GTA 4 match those kinds of numbers for the next year or so.

As for MS not having any more ammo, do they really need it? The 360 outsold both the Wii and PS3 COMBINED (http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/news/microsoft-hypes-xbox-360-momentum/18566/) in software last month. MS has to be pretty happy with those numbers. First party games like Halo 3, PGR 4, and Mass Effect will continue to sell well into the holidays, and the lower priced 360s should sell well if there's a Wii shortage as has been reported. The lower end PS3 should fare well too.

[Cobra Commander]

I don't understand something. The Wii is totally hot shit now right? It looks to me like the Wii has already passed the 'Cube sales or getting near that point. So why isn't it getting games like RE5 or any other 3rd party title that's appearing on both the 360 and PS3? I only have 3 games for my Wii, and they're all made by Nintendo.
Are 3rd parties just not taking it seriously or what? I mean really why is the best selling console, the one that MORE PEOPLE OWN, not getting the BIG games? It just seems elementary to me.

[j_factor]

I don't understand something. The Wii is totally hot shit now right? It looks to me like the Wii has already passed the 'Cube sales or getting near that point. So why isn't it getting games like RE5 or any other 3rd party title that's appearing on both the 360 and PS3? I only have 3 games for my Wii, and they're all made by Nintendo.
Are 3rd parties just not taking it seriously or what? I mean really why is the best selling console, the one that MORE PEOPLE OWN, not getting the BIG games? It just seems elementary to me.

RE5 started development a really long time ago. You'll see (and we have seen, recently) with the newer announcements that the Wii is getting more. As of June the Wii had more exclusive games in development (http://www.eontarionow.com/science/2007/07/25/wii-has-most-exclusive-games-in-pipeline/) than the other consoles. I don't think that's changed, and if anything the Wii has widened its lead a little -- but new game announcements in general (like, across the whole industry) have been pretty slow lately. I think we'll be seeing more big game announcements for the Wii (relative to other consoles) in the near future.

[Zap!]

Funny because I have seen quite a few threads with people saying they are not playing their Wii as much. And these are DP members who I would think being collectors whould have more games than the average user.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I am 35, have been playing video games since 1979, was on Tv Pixxx at the age of 6, own 35+ systems and 1,000's of games and magazines, had my own classic gaming fanzine (Zap!) in the early 90's, have been featured in EGM and Electronic Games, and hold a world record (Monster Lair). With that gaming resume, let me just say that I can't stop playing my Wii, and I've had it since 11-19-06. There are several must-have games out, and even more very good games. The controller IS the future. I personally would never even touch a Sony or Microsoft machine. I don't play games on systems unless they have been making games for 30 years, like Nintendo (and Sega before it).

[Sothy]

Glad to see Orange box up there. Great compilation of games for that price point.


Honestly... surprised a ps2 game wasnt #1

Honestly...Not suprised a ps3 game isnt on the list.

[Sothy]

Oh by the way j factor... What is the deal witha picture of Colonel Sanders in Pajamas jumping over fireworks saying "ITS OK TO BE GAY!" Im not disagreeing... just wondering.

[swlovinist]

I think that we only have to go back to the 360 on year one to see that quality games take time, epically 3rd party games. On that note, Zack and Wikki is an example of a top quality third party game on the Wii. On the note that many around here have stopped playing their Wii, I am one who is still going strong. I play it differently thank my 360, but I than that will change when Smash comes out.

To clarify a couple of things: Mass Effect is a 3rd party game done by Bioware, not done by Microsoft themselves, although there was alot of in-house support.

The 360 has an impressive holiday lineup as it should have....it has been around a full year longer.

Next year, I see all three systems having a "crazy" software lineup for the holidays. On the PS3 note, I have talked to many stores and game shops locally, and they all say the same thing...The PS3 40 gig is not selling that great versus the Wii and the 360. I think that the PS3 is still new enough to still reestablish itself possibly this next year, but I think that the average consumers is still waiting on a cheaper price point and more AAA titles. Personally it is not a bad system, but it has some fierce competition, something Sony is not really used to(like 10 years domination?) I definately think that a soft economy and family image is going to help the Wii......alot. I see the 360 as the "all around system' that will do pretty good as well this holiday. All three are trying hard to get their user bases up, and I am sure that the battle will wage on this next year.

[smokehouse]

Not to totally derail the topic but right now, my Wii sees more game time than any of my other consoles. I guess at this point in my life I'm looking for the quick fix...a few games of bowling, a few jams on GH III, some VC action (Love SUper Mario World and now I can play it without dragging out the SNES...still waiting for NES Contra)...I'll sit down and play for 30 min than walk away. I love it.

[Zap!]

But...But...But...PS3 sales have doubled!

[smokehouse]

But...But...But...PS3 sales have doubled!

Meh...2 is double of 1 but it's only 2...

I do get the joke though...

[Rob2600]

It will be more interesting to see the November numbers. The 399 ps3 system and new ad campaign will drive numbers up.


I think that the PS3 is still new enough to reestablish itself possibly next year

Sure.

Sony fanatics have been saying "Wait until next month! You'll see!" every month since the PlayStation 3 launched. Face it: its sales aren't going to pick up.

Sony, like the record industry, has been doing everything wrong. Keep holding your breath though.

[Rob2600]

I don't understand something. The Wii is totally hot shit now right? ... So why isn't it getting games like RE5 or any other 3rd party title that's appearing on both the 360 and PS3? ... Are 3rd parties just not taking it seriously or what?

Here's something I don't understand. Why do people like you insist that the Wii has hardly any third-party support?

Look at a list of Wii games; there has been tons of third party support. Zack & Wiki, Resident Evil 4, The Godfather, Medal of Honor Heroes 2, Madden NFL, Guitar Hero III, Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles, Elebits, Rayman Raving Rabbids, Scarface, Lego Star Wars, Naruto, etc.

Is every third party Wii game A+? No. Is every third party Xbox 360 or PlayStation 3 game A+? No. But there are plenty of third party Wii games that are great.

[UniHamachi]

The problem with the Wii isn't that there is no 3rd party support. Nor is it that there isn't any A+ Trd party support. The problem is there isn't even any announced A+ 3rd party support. Compared to the XBox, the quality of 3rd party software is uniformly awful. RE4 is great, but after that, the best stuff is in the 7-8 out of 10 range (and you can count the number of those on one hand).

[j_factor]

Oh by the way j factor... What is the deal witha picture of Colonel Sanders in Pajamas jumping over fireworks saying "ITS OK TO BE GAY!" Im not disagreeing... just wondering.

It's a Johnny Turbo reference (as is my avatar and custom title). Specifically it's an alteration of a frame from the final "episode". I lifted it from the semi-famous site that has full scans followed by very amusing commentary. I think the guy that did that site writes for Hardcore Gamer Magazine now.

In case you don't know what Johnny Turbo is, it's a very weird ad campaign run by TTI in support of their Turbo Duo system. In it, they ridicule the Sega CD, which the ads indirectly imply was selling like hotcakes (although it did outsell the Duo still). It stars this mild-mannered "computer expert" who loves his Turbo Duo and "the arcade feel!" it provides, while he hates the Sega CD because it "doesn't even compare!!" His name is Jonathan Brandstetter, but he is secretly Johnny Turbo, the Turbo Duo superhero who battles the evil Feka Corporation. Anyway, the guy pictured is his ambiguously gay sidekick/roommate.

I highly recommend you visit this site (http://sardius.team-coti.com/reviews/jturbo/index.htm) for The Johnny Turbo Story. It's long, but it's really funny.

[Gentlegamer]

What is the deal witha picture of Colonel Sanders in Pajamas jumping over fireworks saying "ITS OK TO BE GAY!" Im not disagreeing... just wondering.It is a pic from the saga of Johnny Turbo. Click this link (http://sardius.team-coti.com/reviews/jturbo/index.htm) to learn about an important part of video game history.

Edit: j_factor already explained it. Seriously, though, click the link and learn about the glory of Johnny Turbo.

[Rob2600]

Compared to the XBox, the quality of 3rd party software is uniformly awful. RE4 is great, but after that, the best stuff is in the 7-8 out of 10 range (and you can count the number of those on one hand).

So according to you, there are a maximum of six good third party Wii games? Really?

Instead of making things up, I chose to look at actual scores. These are averaged from metacritic.com, gamestats.com, and gamerankings.com:

Zack & Wiki: Quest for Barbaros' Treasure - 8.7
Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock - 8.5
Trauma Center: New Blood - 8.5
MLB Power Pros - 8.4
Medal of Honor Heroes 2 - 8.2
Madden NFL 07 - 8.1
Geometry Wars: Galaxies - 8.0
Lego Star Wars: The Complete Saga - 8.0
Trauma Center: Second Opinion - 8.0
Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles - 7.8
The Godfather: Blackhand Edition - 7.8
Mercury Meltdown Revolution - 7.7
Rayman Raving Rabbids - 7.7
Madden NFL 08 - 7.6
The Sims 2: Castaway - 7.6
Elebits - 7.5
Marvel: Ultimate Alliance - 7.5
Naruto: Clash of the Ninja Revolution - 7.5

That's 18 third party Wii games that rate 7.5 or higher, which is quite a bit more than can be counted on one hand...unless one of your hands has 18 fingers.

[UniHamachi]

Yes Rob, you got me. I didn't bother to check gamefaqs. Although, if you don't count multi-platform and DS ports, the number is actually 6. So yes, I would need polydactylism to count them on one hand, but it's not a lot.

Also, I may have set the bar too low with a 7 rating.

Don't get me wrong, I have the Wii and I'm not wanting for games, but the lack of big time 3rd party exclusives points to a system with a limited lifespan.

Also note that the Wii is also missing out on PS3/Xbox 360 multi-platform games. The lack of power is preventing the 3rd parties from putting first tier games on the system.

[Zap!]

Meh...2 is double of 1 but it's only 2...

I do get the joke though...

Yeah, I'm a Nintendo fanboy, I admit it. :)

[j_factor]

Don't get me wrong, I have the Wii and I'm not wanting for games, but the lack of big time 3rd party exclusives points to a system with a limited lifespan.

Also note that the Wii is also missing out on PS3/Xbox 360 multi-platform games. The lack of power is preventing the 3rd parties from putting first tier games on the system.

Rayman Raving Rabbids is a big time 3rd party exclusive. Guitar Hero 3 is the highest of top-tier multi-platform games.

Things are changing. The importance (and the number being produced) of big-budget, graphically intense games is diminishing greatly due to the budgets getting higher and higher and the risk involved. Remember Namco's big-budget Gundam game for PS3? Remember when they publicly stated that it would have to sell over a million copies in Japan for them to break even on it? It sold like 1/4 of that. Shortly thereafter, Namco Bandai released a statement that they were going to put their largest focus on Wii games, and scaling back their budgets. Namco Bandai is one of, if not the biggest game company in Japan. If they have to adjust their business strategy, they certainly can't be alone.

[skylark]

Rayman Raving Rabbids is a big time 3rd party exclusive. Guitar Hero 3 is the highest of top-tier multi-platform games.

Things are changing. The importance (and the number being produced) of big-budget, graphically intense games is diminishing greatly due to the budgets getting higher and higher and the risk involved. Remember Namco's big-budget Gundam game for PS3? Remember when they publicly stated that it would have to sell over a million copies in Japan for them to break even on it? It sold like 1/4 of that. Shortly thereafter, Namco Bandai released a statement that they were going to put their largest focus on Wii games, and scaling back their budgets. Namco Bandai is one of, if not the biggest game company in Japan. If they have to adjust their business strategy, they certainly can't be alone.

I don't really see this. I think developers have realized that not all games need to be big budget, but I don't really see a lack of them in the pipeline. What big games on the 360 and PS3 are not also big budget? I'm not saying anything bad about the Wii, but the AAA titles on the other systems are all pretty demanding on the hardware. At least I can't think of any that are not.

Maybe it's just my tastes, but here are the games that have defined the PS3 and 360 for me:

Resistance
Folklore
Motor Storm
Heavenly Sword
Dead Rising
Oblivion
Viva Pinata
Halo 3
Bioshock
Eternal Sonata
Blue Dragon
Mass Effect
GTA IV
Fallout 3

This isn't a complete list and doesn't even go into sports. What are some low budget titles that people are banking on?

[UniHamachi]

Namco Bandai released a statement that they were going to put their largest focus on Wii games, and scaling back their budgets.
This is the issue. While it is true that Wii games cost less to develop, I think the publishers are making Wii games with an eye toward the bottom line. Luxe productions like MGS or FF aren't coming to the Wii because for now, it is a stopgap for companies like Namco until the PS3 user base is large enough to make the investment worthwhile. That's actually very troublesome for Sony, because this is a chicken and egg issue, and if the studio stops making eggs, so to speak, the chicken will not develop.

Let me make a stronger statement that I did previously -- I love my Wii. I won't get an XBox 360 due to RROD and scratched DVD issues, and the PS3 is still too expensive and doesn't have enough games I'm interested in. So by default, the Wii is my only console, but WiiSports, ZTP, MP3 and SMG make it a totally worthwhile purchase.

And yet, even the games I have no real desire to play are striking in their photorealism and detail. These are things the Wii just cannot do.

I'm going to wait for a Wii report card to elaborate on my thoughts, but it looks like I'll be moving on to the PS3 at some point in the future ($250 price cut, for instance) if Nintendo doesn't put a successor out by then.

Wait, what was this thread about again?

[Rob2600]

Wait, what was this thread about again?

This thread is about how the Wii outsold both the Xbox 360 and the PlayStation 3 combined in October.

The Wii outsold the Xbox 360 by 1.4-to-1 and outsold the PlayStation 3 by 4.3-to-1. The DS outsold the PSP by 1.6-to-1.


I may have set the bar too low with a 7 rating.

I listed games that were rated 7.5 or higher. Anyway, a 7.0 is above average. Why do some people treat it as an F?

[UniHamachi]

Anyway, a 7.0 is above average. Why do some people treat it as an F?
Personally, it's not worth my time to play a 7.X game unless there's some compelling element that I consider an overriding positive. For $50, I don't want "average" or even "above average" -- I want high 8's or 9's. Most of the 8.X or 9.X rated games aren't my cup of tea to begin with -- once the score dips to 7, it's off my radar.

[Rob2600]

Personally, it's not worth my time to play a 7.X game unless there's some compelling element that I consider an overriding positive. For $50, I don't want "average" or even "above average" -- I want high 8's or 9's. Most of the 8.X or 9.X rated games aren't my cup of tea to begin with -- once the score dips to 7, it's off my radar.

Mischief Makers for the Nintendo 64 received a 7.1 out of 10 overall and it's a great game. Bust-A-Move '99 for the Nintendo 64 received a 7.7 out of 10 overall and it's a great game. Goemon's Great Adventure for the Nintendo 64 received a 7.8 out of 10 overall and it's a great game. Beach Spikers for the GameCube received a 7.7 out of 10 overall and it's a great game.

You're missing out on some great games!

[UniHamachi]

I'm willing to let a few fall through the cracks, although if someone on forums like this recommends something, I'll give it a shot.

I've played both of those games, BTW (I own Goemon), and while I remember Goemon and somewhat fun, I got tired of it somewhere in the middle and quit. Mischief Makers? I know I quit because I'm not a big 2D platformer fan (DKC is about the only one I ever liked), and frankly, I don't remember anything else about that game.

If you look at last month's Wii sales, you'll see that Nintendo is basically selling out anything they can ship. Even with Halo3, the XBox360 only outsold the Wii by 24K, and I'm sure that was a constrained supply issue. Had Nintendo been able to get 600K units out in Sept, I'm sure they would have outsold the 360. Even with Halo3.

I think that the PS3 will benefit from spillover sales after the Wii is out of stock for the holidays.

Look at me -- back on topic!

[j_factor]

Personally, it's not worth my time to play a 7.X game unless there's some compelling element that I consider an overriding positive. For $50, I don't want "average" or even "above average" -- I want high 8's or 9's.

Then rent. Or get it used. Or wait for the price to drop...

[Melf]

Rayman Raving Rabbids is a big time 3rd party exclusive.

Didn't that game come out for the 360? It's a year-old too.


Remember Namco's big-budget Gundam game for PS3? Remember when they publicly stated that it would have to sell over a million copies in Japan for them to break even on it? It sold like 1/4 of that. Shortly thereafter, Namco Bandai released a statement that they were going to put their largest focus on Wii games, and scaling back their budgets. Namco Bandai is one of, if not the biggest game company in Japan. If they have to adjust their business strategy, they certainly can't be alone.

I wouldn't put too much stock in Namco regarding this. They pulled the same shit on the Dreamcast with Soul Calibur, and then went on to release only Drill Dozer when the game sold more than they expected. Namco has always been a finicky company with regards to sales.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see every company scaling back development, trying to go back to 2001. This is the same argument that's been used for a year, and all the major franchises are still elsewhere. When I see GTA, the main Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest, and other major franchises exclusive to the Wii, then we'll talk.

Moreover, I see people trot out hardware sales left and right, but software sales are never an issue. The fact that 3rd party games in general sell significantly less than Nintendo's own wares (there have been a select few that have sold well, like RE4) is never addressed. People keep pointing to Red Steel and Rayman - two launch titles - as proof that they sell, but it's been 12 months already. Hell someone in this thread said we should wait until 2009!

Nintendo is the only developer on the Wii with a sure thing right now. It's been documented over and over how 3rd parties are still cautious about the console, despite it selling like gangbusters, and this poses potential problems all around.


This is the issue. While it is true that Wii games cost less to develop, I think the publishers are making Wii games with an eye toward the bottom line. Luxe productions like MGS or FF aren't coming to the Wii because for now, it is a stopgap for companies like Namco until the PS3 user base is large enough to make the investment worthwhile. That's actually very troublesome for Sony, because this is a chicken and egg issue, and if the studio stops making eggs, so to speak, the chicken will not develop.

Bingo. Publishers are using install bases to make decisions about releases, and I don't see anyone abandoning the 360 like the PS3. In fact, companies like Atlus are signing on, and the 360 is getting exclusives that were formally PS3-only or multi-platform (like the new Golden Axe: Beast Riders). It's great that more companies are supporting the Wii, but if everyone is shooting for the bottom of the barrel (i.e. cost versus quality), then we might as well still be playing the PS2, Xbox, and Game Cube.

Furthermore, you're not going to see things like Oblivion, Mass Effect, MGS4, GTA4 on the Wii due to the hardware constraints. I sincerely doubt that everyone in the industry is just going to say "screw pushing the hardware and what can be done with modern technology. All we want is cash!" Yeah, companies are in it to make money, but this line of thinking is suicidal, business-wise. Where does that leave everyone when this generation ends? If no one wants to innovate in terms of visuals and realism because it costs too much now, what are they going to do when the Wii runs its course?

I have a Wii and like it a lot, but I'm very frustrated with the turn the industry is taking because of it. Turning focus towards people who don't buy games is great for the hardware developer, but only Nintendo makes money on the hardware. Sooner or later companies are going to want more, both in terms of what the hardware can offer and just who's buying their games.

Meh, I'm ranting now too!

[UniHamachi]

Then rent. Or get it used. Or wait for the price to drop...
I really have to carve out time to play games, and staying up until 4 in the morning to play Raving Rabbids is, IMO, poor time management. It didn't take more than a couple of hours before the game got repetetive. I have rented a bunch of lower scoring Wii games just to play something and to not waste my free rental coupon, and they really weren't worth my time.

Playing SMG or ZTP until 5 in the morning? My wife might hate it, but IMO it's worth being sleepy for the rest of the day.

[Rob2600]

Didn't that game (Rayman Raving Rabbids) come out for the 360?

Yes, but without motion control. Thus, the reviews for the Xbox 360 version weren't nearly as positive as they were for the Wii version (6.5 overall vs. 7.7 overall).

Saying games like Rayman Raving Rabbids and Madden NFL are available on other consoles is a bit misleading. For example, yes, technically Madden NFL was released for the Xbox 360 and the PlayStation 3, but only the Wii version features motion control. In a way, that makes it an exclusive title because the Wii version plays completely differently than the other two versions.


all the major franchises are still elsewhere. When I see GTA, the main Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest, and other major franchises exclusive to the Wii, then we'll talk.

The Wii has Resident Evil, Star Wars, Guitar Hero, Madden, Sonic, Tony Hawk, SSX, Trauma Center, The Sims, Marvel, Manhunt, Need for Speed, etc. What more do you want?

Does the Wii have a lack of major third-party franchises? Evidently, no. Does it have every major third-party franchise? No...at least not yet.


The fact that 3rd party games in general sell significantly less than Nintendo's own wares is never addressed.

It's been brought up several times in threads.

Also, just because a game doesn't sell over a million copies, doesn't mean it sold poorly or wasn't profitable. 250,000 copies is great for a game developed on a mid-sized budget.

[heybtbm]

I swear you Nintendo fan-boy's have a complex or something. Angry post after post of statistics, "cutting edge" (lol) industry insight, and lists of "important" top selling 3rd party titles. PRETTY EXCITING STUFF!!11!1!

You're console is number 1, relax and enjoy it....or (gasp) play a game.

[jonnyutah]

Well I'm curious how mario galaxy do on the sales charts? can the old dog still do it?

[FantasiaWHT]

Then rent. Or get it used. Or wait for the price to drop...

There's still a time issue. I agree with Unihamachi. I just don't have time to give every mediocre game a shot just to see if I think it's more fun than the rest of the world does. (And 7 is only an average/mediocre game).

My personal theory of ratings is this:
10 = Everyone should play this game at some point
9 = Everyone should play this game unless you hate the genre or the IP
8 = If you like EITHER the genre or the IP, play it
7 = If you like BOTH the genre and the IP, play it
6 = Only play it if you absolutely love the genre/IP
5 and down = Don't play it unless you get a kick out of playing crap

[Rob2600]

7 is only an average/mediocre game.

We went through this in September: http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=105118&page=2

According to IGN.com:

0.0 to 0.4: wtf?
0.5 to 0.9: worthless
1.0 to 1.9: abysmal
2.0 to 2.9: terrible
3.0 to 3.9: bad
4.0 to 4.9: poor
5.0 to 5.4: meh
5.5 to 5.9: mediocre
6.0 to 6.9: passable
7.0 to 7.4: decent
7.5 to 7.9: good
8.0 to 8.4: impressive
8.5 to 8.9: great
9.0 to 9.4: outstanding
9.9 to 9.9: incredible
10: masterful

Gamespot.com's ratings are:

1.0 to 1.9: abysmal
2.0 to 2.9: terrible
3.0 to 3.9: bad
4.0 to 4.9: poor
5.0 to 5.9: mediocre
6.0 to 6.9: fair
7.0 to 7.9: good
8.0 to 8.9: great
9.0 to 9.9: superb
10: prime


According to every video game forum on the internet:

10: Overrated
9: Overrated
8: Total Shit
7: Total Shit
6: Total Shit
5: Total Shit
4: Total Shit
3: Total Shit
2: Total Shit
1: Total Shit

Yes, why does it turn into that?

[Melf]

Saying games like Rayman Raving Rabbids and Madden NFL are available on other consoles is a bit misleading. For example, yes, technically Madden NFL was released for the Xbox 360 and the PlayStation 3, but only the Wii version features motion control. In a way, that makes it an exclusive title because the Wii version plays completely differently than the other two versions.

Saying they're "exclusive" is misleading because many of those games simply have the motion control tacked on, with no real benefit. Very few do like Rayman and RE4 and actually make real use of it.


The Wii has Resident Evil, Star Wars, Guitar Hero, Madden, Sonic, Tony Hawk, SSX, Trauma Center, The Sims, Marvel, Manhunt, Need for Speed, etc. What more do you want?

I'm talking big name 3rd party exclusives. Just about everything you named there is multi-platform, which doesn't show the massive rush to focus on the Wii I hear so many people going on about. Look at RE. The Wii gets an side game while the other consoles get a true sequel, the same with Final Fantasy. Since so many people are talking about how everybody's running to develop for the Wii, I'm just wondering when you'll see franchises like GTA, Devil May Cry, and others appear. And before anyone chimes in with the tired old "GTA sucks" reply, that's not relevant when we're talking sales. Like it or hate it, it's a franchise that moves consoles.


Does the Wii have a lack of major third-party franchises? Evidently, no. Does it have every major third-party franchise? No...at least not yet.

Not yet? What evidence do you see of it ever happening? It's been a year, and nothing's really changed in terms of who's developing for the Wii, so what gives you the idea that we'll be seeing games like any major franchises come to it? Take a look at 3rd party releases this holiday season. Virtually every one on the Wii is elsewhere as well, but there are several major franchises that are absent. This was the case last year, and nothing has really changed.


It's been brought up several times in threads.

No, it's been brought up (http://www.watercoolergames.org/archives/000748.shtml) several times over the last year (http://wii.ign.com/articles/826/826558p1.html) by actual developers (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=29639).


Also, just because a game doesn't sell over a million copies, doesn't mean it sold poorly or wasn't profitable. 250,000 copies is great for a game developed on a mid-sized budget.

No one's talked about million sellers, which is an entirely different issue. My issue is developers moving to the Wii because it's cheaper to develop for and not because of the benefits offered by the hardware. Big name franchises take time and money to develop, and all we've really seen so far are multi-platform games and ports. I still haven't seen a 3rd party exclusive that makes me say "damn, people are going to buy a Wii for that!" There have been more than a few Nintendo games that fit that description, but nothing on the 3rd party side. Nothing announced either.

I want 3rd parties to stop half-assing it and either embrace the Wii or just leave it be. It's been a year already, and nothing's changed.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Raving Rabbids 2 is a Wii/DS exclusive because the PS2/360 versions sold like ass and they played about the same. Motion control makes certain games better.

Third party support huh? How about Sega? They are bringing a buttload of good titles to Wii. Being the Sega fanatic that I am that makes my insides tingle. :p

I am still waiting for a Wii Hockey game. I can't wait until my wife cross checks me through a wall! O_O

[Zap!]

Raving Rabbids 2 is a Wii/DS exclusive because the PS2/360 versions sold like ass and they played about the same. Motion control makes certain games better.

Third party support huh? How about Sega? They are bringing a buttload of good titles to Wii. Being the Sega fanatic that I am that makes my insides tingle. :p

I am still waiting for a Wii Hockey game. I can't wait until my wife cross checks me through a wall! O_O

I love your avitar. I thought you were me for a second. :)

BTW, I see what you're saying about Sega. It's almost like a movie. Two once bitter rivals. Sega was mortally wounded by the evil video game newcomer Sony. Nintendo went to see what all the comotion was, and saw Sega on the floor, bleeding heavily. Sega, with it's dying breath, said "Old foe, we were wrong all these years to be rivals. Please, don't let me die in vain. Destroy Sony for the good of video game kind." Nintendo promised to fulfil Sega's wish. Almost like when the Decepticons and Autobots teamed up to defeat the plague virus. Puts a tear in my eye, and makes me HATE Sony even more than I already do. :)

[Icarus Moonsight]

Back at ya man. It's why I stole it from you. :fist:
LOL

[Zap!]

Back at ya man. It's why I stole it from you. :fist:
LOL

At least you gave me credit. :) BTW, I edited my reply to you above and went on a Sony tirade, lol.

[j_factor]

I wouldn't put too much stock in Namco regarding this. They pulled the same shit on the Dreamcast with Soul Calibur, and then went on to release only Drill Dozer when the game sold more than they expected. Namco has always been a finicky company with regards to sales.

This is Namco Bandai though. This ain't your daddy's Namco. They wield more clout than ever.


I'm sorry, but I just don't see every company scaling back development, trying to go back to 2001. This is the same argument that's been used for a year, and all the major franchises are still elsewhere. When I see GTA, the main Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest, and other major franchises exclusive to the Wii, then we'll talk.

You mention GTA, the main Final Fantasy, and Dragon Quest... but no new games in those series have come out for any system since a year ago, nor have any new ones been announced. GTA4, FF13, and Dragon Quest IX were all announced for their respective systems before the Wii even launched. And how many years are there between main FF's and DQ's these days? If FF14 and DQX were recently announced, and for something other than Wii, you'd have a point here. In short, those games aren't on Wii because they haven't even been started yet. Although I don't think GTA will ever be on Wii.

And companies ARE scaling back development. Look at Capcom. RE5 was announced like two years ago. What big-budget games have they begun developing since then? Their only huge announcement has been Street Fighter IV... which I'm really excited for, but it's not exactly a huge budget game.

Most of the big third party games that are coming up for 360 and/or PS3 are old news and just have long development times. What big new third-party projects are being started for these systems and not Wii?

Edit: And there ARE some pretty big announced games for Wii. Fatal Frame IV is going to be Wii exclusive. There's going to be a sequel to Tales of Symphonia on Wii, and Namco also has a new exclusive RPG called Farewell Ruins of the Moon, which could definitely be big. Namco's making a new Final Furlong just for the Wii, and the original was pretty big at the time. There's gonna be a new Sega Bass Fishing, which may not sound like such a big deal, but Sega Bass Fishing was one of the Dreamcast's biggest hits and one of the most successful fishing games ever. D3 Publisher has a whole line of Simple Wii Series coming, which is sure to be a success in Japan just like the Simple DS Series. Speaking of Japan, Monster Hunter 3 is going to be a Wii title after all, and it's unknown whether or not there's still a PS3 version.


Moreover, I see people trot out hardware sales left and right, but software sales are never an issue. The fact that 3rd party games in general sell significantly less than Nintendo's own wares (there have been a select few that have sold well, like RE4) is never addressed.

This has always been true, though. Nintendo's own software outsold third party software on the NES. That system did okay for itself, no? It's pretty much true across all platforms. You see that the highest selling Xbox games are the Halos and other Microsoft-published titles. There are only a small handful of third-party games that really sell that amazingly.


People keep pointing to Red Steel and Rayman - two launch titles - as proof that they sell, but it's been 12 months already. Hell someone in this thread said we should wait until 2009!

I pointed to Red Steel and Rayman because they are two confirmed million-sellers and have been for a long time. I don't keep tabs on individual game sales that much. But with a cursory look at vgchartz, it doesn't seem like Wii software sales are that bad. Still not as good as 360, but it also still doesn't have the userbase that 360 has (in North America), by a difference of over 2 million. For the most recent week, the Wii has 12 of the top 50 games, while the 360 has 17. The 360 has about 40% more owners than the Wii in North America right now, and 17 is about 40% more than 12. This time last year (for the week ending November 11, 2006) the 360 only had 9 of the top 50. ...So I don't see how the Wii is doing all that bad.

[Rob2600]

there ARE some pretty big announced games for Wii. Fatal Frame IV is going to be Wii exclusive. There's going to be a sequel to Tales of Symphonia on Wii, and Namco also has a new exclusive RPG called Farewell Ruins of the Moon, which could definitely be big. Namco's making a new Final Furlong just for the Wii, and the original was pretty big at the time. There's gonna be a new Sega Bass Fishing, which may not sound like such a big deal, but Sega Bass Fishing was one of the Dreamcast's biggest hits and one of the most successful fishing games ever. D3 Publisher has a whole line of Simple Wii Series coming, which is sure to be a success in Japan just like the Simple DS Series. Speaking of Japan, Monster Hunter 3 is going to be a Wii title after all, and it's unknown whether or not there's still a PS3 version.

I didn't know about some of those games, so thanks for the update. However, I think you're wasting your time. Some people here will never be satisfied, no matter how much data is presented to them, and will continually raise the bar for the Wii.

"You say the Wii has Madden, Guitar Hero, Star Wars, Tony Hawk, Resident Evil, Sonic, Medal of Honor, The Sims, Need for Speed, Manhunt, and Trauma Center? Yeah, well...well...uh...what about Devil May Cry? See! I told you the Wii lacks third-party support!"

[kingpong]

I didn't know about some of those games, so thanks for the update. However, I think you're wasting your time. Some people here will never be satisfied, no matter how much data is presented to them, and will continually raise the bar for the Wii.

And similarly, some people here will never be satisfied with rational discussion of the subject matter and will continue to demonstrate the severe level of fanboyism that you exhibit in every thread that says anything slightly critical of the Wii or Nintendo.

The bar is not being raised for the Wii. It is plain to see that the Wii and its sales patterns are unique in the roughly 35 year history of home video gaming. Never before has there been a system that caused such a commotion among casual gamers and the general population while failing to be a viable option for the core gaming consumer. Arguments about the lack of quality 3rd party titles and the domination of casual games in the Wii lineup all point to the same thing - the core gamer is unlikely to be satisfied by what the Wii has to offer. Even when multi-platform titles come to the Wii they're bound to be inferior to the 360 or PS3 versions due to the limitations of the hardware and unfortunately the frequently poor attempts to use the Wii's unique control options. Take any AAA title on the 360 or PS3, whether first or third party, and assume there was also a high quality version on the Wii. Is anyone seriously going to prefer the Wii version over the 360/PS3?

Developers are throwing more money at Wii projects, but the types of games they're announcing are very telling. They aren't trying to make the games they're making on the other consoles, they're making lightweight titles likely to appeal to casual gamers. The dominance of first party titles on the Wii is already having a profound impact on what the third parties are doing - I can't remember the examples off the top of my head, but I know in the past few months I've seen numerous developers comment that they're left competing for the scraps after Nintendo's games sell a few million, so it doesn't make sense to put large efforts into single projects. Instead they spread their resources across a bunch of less sophisticated titles - throw a bunch out to market and hope that something sticks. Statistically speaking a developer is likely to be able to find a sustainable income by doing this, but they're not going to have any big hits either.

For those who are bringing up supposedly high profile third party titles coming to the Wii, please think about it for a minute. Titles like j_factor mentioned are not high profile titles. While they're not utter crap like Carnival Games, they are decidedly niche. They are going to impact the overall market about as much as the Raiden Fighters collection on the 360 will (+1 Raiden Fighters sales for me, BTW), which is to say not at all. And also please don't make a game out to be the next coming just because it is on the Wii. The last time we had this discussion the list of big third party games coming soon was headlined by games like Zack & Wiki and Dewy's Adventure. If those games were on any other system they would be just another game, a fairly good one in the former, a poor one in the latter. They weren't anything to get all hot and bothered about, yet that kind of thing always happens when someone tries to defend their system.

I now await the inevitable reply saying that the Wii is "winning" because it is selling the most, refutes the 3rd party argument by saying the Wii actually has the most 3rd party exclusives coming, and generally tries to make arguments that traditionally work but can't be applied to a generation where the dynamics of the competition are vastly different from anything we've seen in the post-crash era.

[Rob2600]

the core gamer is unlikely to be satisfied by what the Wii has to offer.

Really? Why? Games like Resident Evil 4, Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles, The Godfather, Scarface, Zack and Wiki, Guitar Hero III, Trauma Center, MLB Power Pros, Lego Star Wars, Medal of Honor Heroes 2, and Marvel: Ultimate Alliance don't appeal to "core" gamers?


Take any AAA title on the 360 or PS3, whether first or third party, and assume there was also a high quality version on the Wii. Is anyone seriously going to prefer the Wii version over the 360/PS3?

Reviewers seemed to prefer Madden NFL on the Wii. The graphics weren't quite as good as they were in the Xbox 360 or PlayStation 3 versions, but they were still good, and the motion control really made an improvement in game play.

Reviewers also seem to prefer high quality first-person shooters on the Wii. After playing Metroid Prime 3 and Medal of Honor Heroes 2, some have said they can't go back to playing first-person shooters with standard controllers.


The dominance of first party titles on the Wii is already having a profound impact on what the third parties are doing ... in the past few months I've seen numerous developers comment that they're left competing for the scraps after Nintendo's games sell a few million, so it doesn't make sense to put large efforts into single projects.

Didn't Sega have the highest selling games on the Genesis and every other console it's released? Doesn't Microsoft have the highest selling games on the Xbox and Xbox 360? Doesn't Sony have the highest selling games on the PlayStation and the PlayStation 3? Doesn't Nintendo have the highest selling games on the NES, SNES, and every other home and portable console it's ever released?

How is the Wii any different?

[UniHamachi]

Really? Why? Games like Resident Evil 4, Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles, The Godfather, Scarface, Zack and Wiki, Guitar Hero III, Trauma Center, MLB Power Pros, Lego Star Wars, Medal of Honor Heroes 2, and Marvel: Ultimate Alliance don't appeal to "core" gamers?
Rob, I'm a Nintendo fanboy and not a hardcore gamer, but even I can see that list of games is pretty lame. Even the games that may be appreciated by the hardcore crowd are ports from other systems.

Sorry, I know you're going to keep adding to that list, but take a step back and really think if Lego Star Wars and a super-deformed baseball game are really appreciated by hardcore gamers. Because if you do, then you're really not being rational about this.

[Merlins Beard]

Rob, I'm a Nintendo fanboy and not a hardcore gamer, but even I can see that list of games is pretty lame. Even the games that may be appreciated by the hardcore crowd are ports from other systems.

Sorry, I know you're going to keep adding to that list, but take a step back and really think if Lego Star Wars and a super-deformed baseball game are really appreciated by hardcore gamers. Because if you do, then you're really not being rational about this.

I agree, and will be honest and say that I bought my Wii for Galaxy, Zelda, Metroid, and Smash Bros. The quality of these games, combined with the price of the console, made my Wii purchase a no brainer. If these four games are it, oh well... I fully understood this may be the case prior to purchase. Anything else that interests me is just an added bonus.

[Melf]

And companies ARE scaling back development. Look at Capcom. RE5 was announced like two years ago. What big-budget games have they begun developing since then? Their only huge announcement has been Street Fighter IV... which I'm really excited for, but it's not exactly a huge budget game.

Capcom's not really a good example to make your point, as it's had million sellers with both Dead Rising and Lost Planet, two new IPs released on a console with higher development costs.


Most of the big third party games that are coming up for 360 and/or PS3 are old news and just have long development times. What big new third-party projects are being started for these systems and not Wii?

A few come to mind, like Silent Hill V, Ninja Gaiden 2 (can't come now, since it's an exclusive), etc. What I'm referring to is that developers are no longer surprised by the Wii
success and are supposedly jumping ship from the 360 and PS3 en masse, but we're still seeing mostly ports and multi-platform games. If the Wii has shorter development times and such great 3rd party support, shouldn't there be more announcements then? The DS has it, which is why it got the next DQ game. I've been hearing this argument about long development times for a year already. That shouldn't stop announcements, at least.


Edit: And there ARE some pretty big announced games for Wii. Fatal Frame IV is going to be Wii exclusive. There's going to be a sequel to Tales of Symphonia on Wii, and Namco also has a new exclusive RPG called Farewell Ruins of the Moon, which could definitely be big. Namco's making a new Final Furlong just for the Wii, and the original was pretty big at the time. There's gonna be a new Sega Bass Fishing, which may not sound like such a big deal, but Sega Bass Fishing was one of the Dreamcast's biggest hits and one of the most successful fishing games ever. D3 Publisher has a whole line of Simple Wii Series coming, which is sure to be a success in Japan just like the Simple DS Series. Speaking of Japan, Monster Hunter 3 is going to be a Wii title after all, and it's unknown whether or not there's still a PS3 version.

I think Monster Hunter 3 is now Wii-only. That's a decent list to begin with at least, and hopefully these will be made for the hardware and not just cash runs. That's my biggest worry with the Wii.


This has always been true, though. Nintendo's own software outsold third party software on the NES. That system did okay for itself, no? It's pretty much true across all platforms. You see that the highest selling Xbox games are the Halos and other Microsoft-published titles. There are only a small handful of third-party games that really sell that amazingly.

Neither the PS3 or 360 has as huge a gap between 1st and 3rd party software as the Wii has. That's what has many developers concerned about it. And any console with the brutal and monopolistic licensing agreements the NES had would do well. If you want to talk about high sellers, why not compare how Nintendo's games have sold with the best 3rd party ones? There have been more than a few million sellers on the 360 since it launched, even with Halo, which came out only a month ago.


I pointed to Red Steel and Rayman because they are two confirmed million-sellers and have been for a long time. I don't keep tabs on individual game sales that much. But with a cursory look at vgchartz, it doesn't seem like Wii software sales are that bad. Still not as good as 360, but it also still doesn't have the userbase that 360 has (in North America), by a difference of over 2 million. For the most recent week, the Wii has 12 of the top 50 games, while the 360 has 17. The 360 has about 40% more owners than the Wii in North America right now, and 17 is about 40% more than 12. This time last year (for the week ending November 11, 2006) the 360 only had 9 of the top 50. ...So I don't see how the Wii is doing all that bad.

There are only about 2 million more 360s in the U.S. than Wiis, and according to the site you mentioned (http://vgchartz.com/atotals.php?name=&console=Wii&maker=&boxartz=1), neither Red Steel nor Rayman are million sellers, and nine out of the top ten best sellers on the Wii are Nintendo games. Heck for this month alone half the Wii's top ten are Nintendo games. That's what I'm talking about. Nintendo's making a killing, and while 3rd parties aren't doing bad, they aren't doing anywhere near as well, which is probably why they tend to half ass it with their releases.


"You say the Wii has Madden, Guitar Hero, Star Wars, Tony Hawk, Resident Evil, Sonic, Medal of Honor, The Sims, Need for Speed, Manhunt, and Trauma Center? Yeah, well...well...uh...what about Devil May Cry? See! I told you the Wii lacks third-party support!"

Yeah, that's TOTALLY what I meant. :rolleyes:


Reviewers also seem to prefer high quality first-person shooters on the Wii.

You're kidding, right?


Didn't Sega have the highest selling games on the Genesis and every other console it's released? Doesn't Microsoft have the highest selling games on the Xbox and Xbox 360? Doesn't Sony have the highest selling games on the PlayStation and the PlayStation 3? Doesn't Nintendo have the highest selling games on the NES, SNES, and every other home and portable console it's ever released?

How is the Wii any different?

Did any of the companies you mentioned so thoroughly dominate the software sales on their platforms as to actually cut into 3rd party sales? I don't think so. You mentioned Guitar Hero 3, which is interesting. It came out on the 360 very close to Halo 3, and it's already nearing a million units. On the Wii, it's barely reaching 500k. That's not a bad number by any means, but you don't think Activision notices that it's basically sold half as much on a console without the biggest release in gaming history and direct competition from Rock Band? Something's up there.

[heybtbm]

I bought my Wii for Galaxy, Zelda, Metroid, and Smash Bros. The quality of these games, combined with the price of the console, made my Wii purchase a no brainer. If these four games are it, oh well... I fully understood this may be the case prior to purchase. Anything else that interests me is just an added bonus.

Very similar to how I feel about the Wii. I bought it for the 1st party A-list titles and that's it. If an interesting game comes down the line (RE Umbrella Chronicles for example)...great. In the meantime, I'm not going to be holding my breath for a ton of "must have" 3rd party games.

[mezrabad]

And there ARE some pretty big announced games for Wii. Fatal Frame IV is going to be Wii exclusive.

I didn't know about a Fatal Frame IV...That news made me squeal like an excited little girl, which, incidentally, is how I often sound when playing a Fatal Frame game...though a bit more scared than excited.

[Rob2600]

Rob, I'm a Nintendo fanboy and not a hardcore gamer, but even I can see that list of games is pretty lame. ... take a step back and really think if Lego Star Wars and a super-deformed baseball game are really appreciated by hardcore gamers. Because if you do, then you're really not being rational about this.

Lego Star Wars: The Complete Saga and MLB Power Pros have been receiving great reviews, above 8.0. Reviewers claim they are polished, full-featured, fun games. How is that lame?

Do games have to be gory and full of violence to be cool?

[gum_drops]

Reviewers seemed to prefer Madden NFL on the Wii. The graphics weren't quite as good as they were in the Xbox 360 or PlayStation 3 versions, but they were still good, and the motion control really made an improvement in game play.


The overall scores are slightly lower for the wii version than the ps3 or 360. Thats an odd way of showing preference for the wii version.


Reviewers also seem to prefer high quality first-person shooters on the Wii.I almost thought you were serious. Its good to know even with all the bickering he still have a sense of humor about things.

[Merlins Beard]

Ththought you were serious. Its good to know even with all the bickering he still have a sense of humor about things.
Surely he meant the controls, which after using I greatly prefer.

But to prefer the FPSs as a whole? No.

[UniHamachi]

I think the hardcore gamers really need some perspective:

At $250 for the console and a pack-in game, the Wii is a tremendous value. There hasn't been a launch price like this since the Dreamcast, and adjusted for inflation (and in light of the pricing of the current competition), it's the best console value at launch, like, ever.

The drawback is that the unit is drastically underpowered in comparison. But then again, if it was comparable to the 360 pr PS3, it would have been price comparably, and it would not be selling like it is.

I got my Wii for ZTP, SMG, and WiiSports. So I'm not disappointed (actually, I'm more than impressed by SMG's graphics). But for those that are, there are other consoles available, and there's really no reason to complain about the Wii's lack of AAA 3rd party exclusives. Because it's just not going to have them.

[j_factor]

Capcom's not really a good example to make your point, as it's had million sellers with both Dead Rising and Lost Planet, two new IPs released on a console with higher development costs.

But again... those are old. Capcom's not making a "next Dead Rising". IMO.


A few come to mind, like Silent Hill V, Ninja Gaiden 2 (can't come now, since it's an exclusive), etc. What I'm referring to is that developers are no longer surprised by the Wii
success and are supposedly jumping ship from the 360 and PS3 en masse, but we're still seeing mostly ports and multi-platform games. If the Wii has shorter development times and such great 3rd party support, shouldn't there be more announcements then? The DS has it, which is why it got the next DQ game. I've been hearing this argument about long development times for a year already. That shouldn't stop announcements, at least.

I don't mean to say that the Wii has an abundance of amazing, high-profile third-party exclusives. I'm just saying that the situation isn't dismal. This Wii definitely has its share of third-party support; this isn't another N64 situation.

Also, the nature of the Wii is such that it's very conducive to lower profile games. But I also don't think it's fair to completely dismiss low-key releases. Brain Age for DS was quite low-profile before it came out, and it turned out to be a sensation. Katamari Damacy was downright obscure while it was in development, but after it came out, high praise in the media and word of mouth made it a pretty big hit (and the price point also helped). Hell, even with Halo, I don't remember anybody talking about it 6 months before release. Just because a title doesn't have ridiculous amounts of hype or a roman numeral at the end doesn't mean it's necessarily irrelevant.


I think Monster Hunter 3 is now Wii-only. That's a decent list to begin with at least, and hopefully these will be made for the hardware and not just cash runs. That's my biggest worry with the Wii.

I can see this worry -- there have been a lot of cash runs on the Wii. But the DS was like that early on too. I know people are sick of hearing "the Wii is just like the DS!" but I swear, a lot of negative comments I hear about the Wii are total deja-fucking-vu.


Neither the PS3 or 360 has as huge a gap between 1st and 3rd party software as the Wii has.

Well, is that reflective of the high quality of their 3rd party lineups (relative to Nintendo), or the low quality of their 1st party lineups (relative to Nintendo)? Perhaps a combination of the two?


That's what has many developers concerned about it. And any console with the brutal and monopolistic licensing agreements the NES had would do well. If you want to talk about high sellers, why not compare how Nintendo's games have sold with the best 3rd party ones? There have been more than a few million sellers on the 360 since it launched, even with Halo, which came out only a month ago.

360 is a year older. How many million sellers did the 360 have as of a year ago?


There are only about 2 million more 360s in the U.S. than Wiis,

The difference is about 2.3 million and the Wii's total userbase is only about 6.2 million. That makes it 37%.


and according to the site you mentioned (http://vgchartz.com/atotals.php?name=&console=Wii&maker=&boxartz=1), neither Red Steel nor Rayman are million sellers, and nine out of the top ten best sellers on the Wii are Nintendo games.

"Million-seller" status generally refers to worldwide sales. At least that's what I was referring to.


Heck for this month alone half the Wii's top ten are Nintendo games. That's what I'm talking about. Nintendo's making a killing, and while 3rd parties aren't doing bad, they aren't doing anywhere near as well, which is probably why they tend to half ass it with their releases.

Are you sure it's not the other way around? Maybe they aren't doing anywhere near as well because they tend to half-ass it. I mean, a port of a two year old PS2 game doesn't necessarily have the greatest sales potential (RE4 is a very big exception). Rayman and Red Steel sold well, and they were original games with broad appeal.


You mentioned Guitar Hero 3, which is interesting. It came out on the 360 very close to Halo 3, and it's already nearing a million units. On the Wii, it's barely reaching 500k. That's not a bad number by any means, but you don't think Activision notices that it's basically sold half as much on a console without the biggest release in gaming history and direct competition from Rock Band? Something's up there.

It sold half as much on a console with 3/4 of the userbase and no previous entry in the series. There is also possibly a production issue for the Wii because the guitars are different (and never previously produced, unlike 360). I see stacks (literally) of the 360 version at every game-selling store I go to, but the Wii version is out of stock at many places. In all, the sales (comparatively speaking) are about what one would expect given the circumstances.

[Rob2600]

Reviewers also seem to prefer high quality first-person shooters on the Wii. After playing Metroid Prime 3 and Medal of Honor Heroes 2, some have said they can't go back to playing first-person shooters with standard controllers.

I almost thought you were serious. Its good to know even with all the bickering he still have a sense of humor about things.

According to IGN.com:

"Metroid Prime 3's gameplay is more responsive and precise than any console experience to date. ... Not only do the new controls respond quicker and with more precision than any dual-analog-helmed FPS ever created, but the gesture system works brilliantly, too."

"Medal of Honor Heroes 2 controls better than any other home console FPS ever. ... you'll be able to point and shoot with a level of speed and accuracy previously unseen on Wii or any other home system. ... If you thought Metroid Prime 3 got it right, wait until you get your hands on this one."

In what way is that not serious?

[Icarus Moonsight]

Hardcore? I say fuck the hardcore gamers. I can't relate to a group that is shallow, closed minded and change adverse. Some of the best games released are shunned by the hardcore crowd. Killer 7 anyone? How the hell Okami didn't sell a million copies when Madden does within a week year after year is beyond me and frankly makes me feel sick. Hardcore gamers don't know what they want or what good is. They are trend followers that only care about keeping up with their precious label. Are you seriously going to put stock into their Wii-phobias? That makes you just as bad as them, if not worse. A member of this board should know better... seriously.

How is the Wii deficient when the 360, while having a good selection of games, lives fast and dies young and the PS3 has only a handful of good games - most of them being Sony published btw. OMG! Where are the third parties at? O_O

Can you say double standard? If your a hardcore gamer, probably not. :p

[heybtbm]

According to IGN.com:

"Metroid Prime 3's gameplay is more responsive and precise than any console experience to date. ... Not only do the new controls respond quicker and with more precision than any dual-analog-helmed FPS ever created, but the gesture system works brilliantly, too."

"Medal of Honor Heroes 2 controls better than any other home console FPS ever. ... you'll be able to point and shoot with a level of speed and accuracy previously unseen on Wii or any other home system. ... If you thought Metroid Prime 3 got it right, wait until you get your hands on this one."

In what way is that not serious?

As someone who puts a majority of my gaming hours into FPS's, let me say the above statements are absolute bunk. It's just shitty, laughable hyperbole from people that race through games to meet a deadline.

I had alot of fun with Metroid Prime 3, but it doesn't hold a candle to certain (unnamed to avoid flamebait) 360/PS3 shooters. This whole sub-topic is hilarious to people who actually play these games on a regular basis.

[DeputyMoniker]

Where was the original XBOX at this point in its life? (compared to the PS3) What about the Genny? TG-16? Since we have a new underdog on the block, I'm wondering how it compares to our other underdogs.

[Gentlegamer]

I had alot of fun with Metroid Prime 3, but it doesn't hold a candle to certain (unnamed to avoid flamebait) 360/PS3 shooters. This whole sub-topic is hilarious to people who actually play these games on a regular basis.The Metroid Prme series is not FPS, it is First Person Action Adventure.

[Melf]

But again... those are old. Capcom's not making a "next Dead Rising". IMO.

They patented the name "Lost Planet Colonies" a few weeks ago, and company reps have said that a sequel is likely. I wouldn't be surprised if DR followed suit.


I don't mean to say that the Wii has an abundance of amazing, high-profile third-party exclusives. I'm just saying that the situation isn't dismal. This Wii definitely has its share of third-party support; this isn't another N64 situation.

It's definitely better than it was on the N64 and even Game Cube. It's the focus those 3rd parties are placing on the Wii that concerns me.


Also, the nature of the Wii is such that it's very conducive to lower profile games. But I also don't think it's fair to completely dismiss low-key releases. Brain Age for DS was quite low-profile before it came out, and it turned out to be a sensation. Katamari Damacy was downright obscure while it was in development, but after it came out, high praise in the media and word of mouth made it a pretty big hit (and the price point also helped). Hell, even with Halo, I don't remember anybody talking about it 6 months before release. Just because a title doesn't have ridiculous amounts of hype or a roman numeral at the end doesn't mean it's necessarily irrelevant.

It doesn't make it irrelevant, but these are the flagship series that gamers recognize. Nntendo doesn't cater specifically to gamers anymore, and that it might have something to do with their absence. Take Zak and Wiki, for example. It's a great game, but do you think it's going to sell big numbers? Big names are important, especially around the 4th quarter. Why do you think Super Mario Galaxy came out a month before Christmas?


360 is a year older. How many million sellers did the 360 have as of a year ago?

How did the 360 sell in that first year compared to the Wii? With as many Wiis as Nintendo's been selling, you'd expect 3rd party numbers to be higher.


"Million-seller" status generally refers to worldwide sales. At least that's what I was referring to.

I was only referring to U.S. sales, as with the dismal performance of the 360 and the lackluster run of the PS3 in Japan so far, U.S. it doesn't do much to help Japan for those two.


Are you sure it's not the other way around? Maybe they aren't doing anywhere near as well because they tend to half-ass it. I mean, a port of a two year old PS2 game doesn't necessarily have the greatest sales potential (RE4 is a very big exception). Rayman and Red Steel sold well, and they were original games with broad appeal.

Here's the problem: the argument that 3rd parties aren't selling well because they're half assing it goes directly against the whole "developers are flocking to the Wii" argument. It's a direct contradiction. If 3rd parties do prefer the Wii because it's cheaper to develop for and it has a huge user base, and if they're "shifting their focus (someone please tell me what this means), then why are they half-assing it? Shouldn't they be putting their best work on the Wii because the install base is there and it's cheaper to develop for?

I hear people talking about companies "shifting their focus," but it looks like the only shifting being done is really just ports and licensed shovelware.


It sold half as much on a console with 3/4 of the userbase and no previous entry in the series. There is also possibly a production issue for the Wii because the guitars are different (and never previously produced, unlike 360). I see stacks (literally) of the 360 version at every game-selling store I go to, but the Wii version is out of stock at many places. In all, the sales (comparatively speaking) are about what one would expect given the circumstances.

Guitar Hero had never been produced on the 360 until part 2, and part 3 was the first one on the PS3. Neither console had production issues.

[Rob2600]

Big names are important, especially around the 4th quarter. Why do you think Super Mario Galaxy came out a month before Christmas?

Super Smash Bros. Brawl is coming out in February and will be huge. High quality, big name games sell no matter when they're released.

[swlovinist]

Entering the firing zone, swlovinist puts on his +5 to flamewar jacket. Quitely, he chooses his Wii mote for a weapon, for +5 to inflict fun on Thanksgiving guests.

Wii and 360 are apples and oranges. You cant really compare them to be anywhere remotely the same gaming experience. Me personally, love both for different reasons. I know that I will be playing a shitload of DS and Wii games for the THanksgiving. After the party, I will resort to a cave and play Mass Effect for a month.