Well, Sony pissed me off.

[Sylentwulf]

OK, I bought a Gameboy SP, because I thought the extra feature, look, and playability were worth it, and I'm happy with my purchase.

Buying a new PS2 however, is utter BULLSHIT. Now I hear it has a built in Infrared for a remote, is quieter, AND supports progressive scan?

Fuck you sony. How about if I trade in my old, loud malfunctioning piece of shit, you give me the new one as an upgrade for $50? THAT sounds reasonable. I believe it's time to start calling and harassing.

[digitalpress]

Doesn't pretty much every manufacturer of pretty much any technology do this? Why is Sony the bad guy?

What happens when the company that makes your television set makes improvements and releases a new model? Should you be able to trade in your old one for the upgrade?

When your printer or scanner or webcam or speakers or CD-ROM or anything else connected to and including your PC is upgraded with a new model do you expect a trade-in to be offered to you? What about your car?

If you don't like the policy I don't see how "Sony" is the issue. Why buy anything at all when tomorrow's version is going to be better?

[Sylentwulf]

DP? You're comparing basic electronics to a videogame system. Are you saying I need a new car or something?

If I wanted to upgrade my gaming platform once a year, I would play computer games. That's why I LIKE consoles.

I can't think of any other platform besides Gameboy that has ever done this. (And I only owned 3 gameboys, original, advance, and SP, I didn't buy the other 2 because I didn't think they were significant enough).

[Arcade Antics]

DP? You're comparing basic electronics to a videogame system.

He's not comparing basic electronics to a videogame system - videogame systems are made up of basic electronics. I think the point is that any type of electronic device - whether a CD player, DVD player, radio, game console, computer, etc. - is going to have better models "tomorrow." It's inherent in the technology, so knowing that, we shouldn't get upset when a nicer revision of said technology is released. And I agree with that. :-D

Gamer X buys a PS2 on launch day. Gamer Y buys a PS2 three years later and gets the nicer HW revision.

So does that mean Sony is "bad" and the Gamer Y is better off than X?

No. Because Gamer X has played and enjoyed his/her PS2 for three years. :)

[Sylentwulf]

<shrug> Guess I'm the only one who doesn't think I should have to buy a new PS2 every other year, I was hoping for maybe a PS3 in another couple years.

Maybe because no other console has ever been released in an updated/better version (Maybe a Jr. or re-released version, but never an enhanced-original)

I guess some of us just don't have an extra $200 to blow.

[Goblin]

If I wanted to upgrade my gaming platform once a year, I would play computer games. That's why I LIKE consoles.

Nothing I've read indicates that the new PS2 will play games any differently, so your comments on an upgrade are not valid. You only need to upgrade to get the added DVD features. Yes you can feel disappointed that the new unit will be more reliable and serve as a more complete DVD player, but that is the price you pay for being an early adopter of technology.

[Captain Wrong]

If I wanted to upgrade my gaming platform once a year, I would play computer games. That's why I LIKE consoles.

Nothing I've read indicates that the new PS2 will play games any differently, so your comments on an upgrade are not valid. You only need to upgrade to get the added DVD features. Yes you can feel disappointed that the new unit will be more reliable and serve as a more complete DVD player, but that is the price you pay for being an early adopter of technology.

That's kind of what I was thinking. Honestly, considering the PS2 is know as an assy DVD player, would it really be worth it to upgrade it to get an assy progressive scan DVD player?

As long as it still plays games, I'm cool with it. It doesn't seem like they are adding anything vital to the gameplaying.

Now the GBA SP, I'm pissed about. The backlight, I feel, is essential to using the damn thing and considering all the talk around it's release was about how they wouldn't put a light in b/c it's run down the batteries and such, I thought it was a safe buy in it's old non-lit form. So a year or two later they roll out the SP with a light that they should have had in the first place.

That I feel is shady. Considering they were so against doing it and then after some third party stuff came out, they changed their mind. It almost seems like they waited just long enough for people to buy the non-lit version and them roll out this one so people would buy it again.

Yep I'm bitter and nope I'm not buying an SP.

[Phosphor Dot Fossils]

Actually, I can kinda see where Sylentwulf is coming from on this one, and he did mention paying for an upgrade vs. a whole new console.

At the same time, if any technology is a better example of forced obsolescence than game consoles, I haven't seen it. So I can see both sides of the coin.

It must be standing on its edge.

[wberdan]

i cant believe that they would upgrade their player to progressive scan this late in the game.. that doesnt make sense.
...actually, any of those revisions seem kinda funny, since theyll have new hardware out in a couple years anyway..
also, i ask- who was requesting that sony make a progressive dvd output part of the PS2? people that care about quality dont use the ps2 for dvd movies, do they?

are you sure this really happened?

willie

[wberdan]

DP? You're comparing basic electronics to a videogame system.

He's not comparing basic electronics to a videogame system - videogame systems are made up of basic electronics. I think the point is that any type of electronic device - whether a CD player, DVD player, radio, game console, computer, etc. - is going to have better models "tomorrow." It's inherent in the technology, so knowing that, we shouldn't get upset when a nicer revision of said technology is released. And I agree with that. :-D

Gamer X buys a PS2 on launch day. Gamer Y buys a PS2 three years later and gets the nicer HW revision.

So does that mean Sony is "bad" and the Gamer Y is better off than X?

No. Because Gamer X has played and enjoyed his/her PS2 for three years. :)

yeah, but companies *usually* dont make revisions to products after a year, they usually discontinue the first product and add the updates to a new, better product. i find it very unusual that sony would do this, and personally i wont believe it until i actually see it.

willie

[Arcade Antics]

<shrug> Guess I'm the only one who doesn't think I should have to buy a new PS2 every other year, I was hoping for maybe a PS3 in another couple years.

Maybe because no other console has ever been released in an updated/better version (Maybe a Jr. or re-released version, but never an enhanced-original)

I guess some of us just don't have an extra $200 to blow.

No, I don't have an extra $200 to blow, and certainly not on another PS2. I guess I'm missing something. I agree, why should you have to buy a new PS2 every other year? The new PS2 isn't enhanced for game playing.

I think part of my confusion is over why a gamer would want the new PS2 revision. Is it for the DVD capabilities? Or you're just saying they should have released the PS2 this way from day one, with prog. scan? I agree that would have been nice, but even if I knew from day one that it would have been re-tooled for somewhat better DVD watching performance, I still would have bought the original model and watched movies on a separate stand alone DVD player.

[chadtower]

Hey, my wife is getting kind of old and there are younger, hotter women out there. I should call her parents and complain that they didn't provide for that.
:roll:

[Aswald]

I think what Sylentwulf is saying is that Sony put out a "shoddy" unit on purpose, so people would have to pay extra for the "improved" model. It's not a "next generation" thing, but rather a case of putting out an inferior product to begin with. If that is in fact the case, then he's right.

[wberdan]

i just gotta know... why, why, why, put progressive scan into this player this late? no one who has an HDTV actually uses this horrible player as their main playback of dvd's do they????

willie

[Captain Wrong]

i just gotta know... why, why, why, put progressive scan into this player this late? no one who has an HDTV actually uses this horrible player as their main playback of dvd's do they????

willie

That was my point. :)

Maybe their thought is to try to capture that last dozen of people who have been sitting on the fence and haven't bought a PS2 yet?

Doesn't make sence to me tho.

[chadtower]

Or maybe they plan to release games that use that feature.

[kevincure]

Well, basically every system to ever be popular has had releases like this. For instance, the PSone was a PSX release made smaller and more reliable, but I don't think anyone complained about being "forced" to "upgrade". Same goes for the Genny, among many others.

Much ado about nothing, I'd say.

[wberdan]

Or maybe they plan to release games that use that feature.

good point, but i am not sure that making the dvd player output a progressive signal will nexessarly make (or allow) the games output one. thats a good question though...

willie

[chadtower]

Disclaimer: I know little about the ps2, this is all an educated guess.


Doing something like upgrading firmware onboard to output progressive scan could very easily, depending on architecture, add extra capability to the composite out. This could be taken advantage of by games, again depending on architecture. Don't be quite so quick to dismiss it. Then again, even if it IS just a tiny upgrade for people who would use it as a dvd player... what's wrong with that?

[Sylentwulf]

OK, so the Progressive output WON'T be used for games? I don't give a damn about the Recordable DVD's, I don't care THAT much about the IR sensor, I DO care if the games will be able to be output into progressive scan, and I DO care about the quieter fan. (Especially since I think it's because the system will output less heat, not because it's a quieter fan in general.)

[ManekiNeko]

It's funny, really. The first few years' worth of Playstations were about as reliable as a fishnet condom, yet all those problems seemed to be fixed with the later models and the PSOne. I've seen tons of broken Playstation systems, but never a malfunctioning PSOne.
It looks like history is repeating itself. I'm lucky enough to have a Playstation and a Playstation 2 that work, but I know far too many other people who've had problems with theirs. Selling faulty equipment just to artificially inflate your user base (to say nothing of profits) is sick and wrong. Just another one of the many reasons that Sony SHOULDN'T be ruling this industry with an iron fist.

JR

[zmeston]

OK, so the Progressive output WON'T be used for games? I don't give a damn about the Recordable DVD's, I don't care THAT much about the IR sensor, I DO care if the games will be able to be output into progressive scan, and I DO care about the quieter fan. (Especially since I think it's because the system will output less heat, not because it's a quieter fan in general.)

A dozen or so PS2 games already output prog-scan video -- Guilty Gear X2, Tekken 4, several others that are slipping my mind. (http://www.hdtvarcade.com has a list, I believe.) The hardware upgrade allows for prog-scan DVD playback (and possibly prog-scan CG scenes, although I'm not sure of that yet).

Considering how many people play their PS2 with an RF connector (!!), I wouldn't at all be surprised if many of those same people use the PS2 as their DVD player.

-- Z.

[Sylentwulf]

The PSOne, I had no problem with, over time things get cheaper, and dying systems are re-released at budget prices. Things are usually missing from the re-releases as well, and they are of lower quality, or noone cares anymore (toploader, SNES Jr., Atari Jr, etc...)

But this is at the peak of the systems life (Or not even yet AT the peak of the systems life) and THAT is the difference to me. In other words, thanx for supporting us, F*^& you.

[zmeston]

Selling faulty equipment just to artificially inflate your user base (to say nothing of profits) is sick and wrong. Just another one of the many reasons that Sony SHOULDN'T be ruling this industry with an iron fist.

JR

It's ridiculous to claim that Sony is intentionally selling "faulty" equipment. I've never seen hard facts to back up the anecdotal claims that PS1s and/or PS2s crap out any more frequently than any other electronic gizmo. Perhaps the problem is just perceived as widespread because of the tens of millions of PS1s and PS2s out there, which would naturally increase the overall number of hardware failures. And, of course, anything with moving parts is going to crap out eventually, especially when those moving parts are seeing heavy use.

If Sony really was putting out shitty systems, they surely wouldn't "rule the industry with an iron fist" -- but who would you rather see in the #1 position? Nintendo was already there once before, and we all know the many shenanigans they pulled during their rule of the roost. Microsoft already owns the PC industry -- do we really need to hand them the videogame industry, too?

The only way I've seen to "artificially" inflate a user base is to report on the number of units sold IN (shipped to stores) as opposed to the number of units sold THROUGH (sold to consumers), then obfuscate the two. I've seen this trick used on dozens of press releases.

-- Z.

[GrandAmChandler]

I bought a PS2 on launch day, and started seeing faults within the 90 day warranty period. I guess the replaced the lens or whatever when I sent it in to the Sony repair warehouse. But sure enough less than 90 days later It stopped playing DVDs. Luckilly I found some guy who bought it for $150 from me, because he didnt care about DVDs, and just wanted to play games.

Oh and here's a question for everyone, rumor has it, that by playing DVDs on the PS2, on a regular basis, strains the lens and wears it out so you can't play anything anymore, is this true?

[Retsudo]

I doubt it!

[Arcade Antics]

Oh and here's a question for everyone, rumor has it, that by playing DVDs on the PS2, on a regular basis, strains the lens and wears it out so you can't play anything anymore, is this true?

No.