NES games that really push the system to it's limits? [Archive]

jb143

11-19-2007, 10:23 AM

I just spent last night playing some old NES games and noticed how some, mainly the ones toward the end of the nes's lifecycle, have much better graphics than others. That got me wondering...what are the games that really push the NES to it's limits and make you think "Wow...this is playing on an NES?" Whether it be graphics, music, sheer size, or whatever.

I know that SMB3 comes to mind but that was pretty much that game that I grew up with and has became the defining game for the NES. The only other one that I can think of now is Moon Crystal. It has some of the most fluid animations I've seen on the nes but I've only played it on an emulator and it was never officially released in the US.

Any others anyone can think of?

mailman187666

11-19-2007, 10:30 AM

actually when I first played Fire & Ice (Solomon's Key 2) I remember thinking that the animation for the character on screen was more fluid then a lot of the other games. You are right though, I think the games that came later in the life cycle were definately pushing the system to its limits. Thats pretty much how it seems to be for just about any system though. Dragon Warrior 4 was released late in the life cycle as well and that game seemed to maybe have not had the best graphics or music, but the mechanics to he game were well polished.

sidnotcrazy

11-19-2007, 10:36 AM

What a great topic!

Right off the top of my head I would have to say Battletoads had some of the best graphics I have ever seen on the nes. With so many levels with paralax scrolling, huge sprites, and very little slowdown it was a real showpiece for the system.

staxx

11-19-2007, 10:37 AM

Bonk's Adventure

jb143

11-19-2007, 10:46 AM

I've only played Bonk's Adventure on the TG16 but if it's close to that then I'll have to look into it. It's a bit tough to find though isn't it?

Battletoads is a great example. I used to play that all the time and loved how it felt very close to the arcade.

Keir

11-19-2007, 11:02 AM

Kirby's Adventure comes to mind. Right on par with SMB3.

XYXZYZ

11-19-2007, 11:17 AM

I always thought The Immortal had almost 16-bit looking graphics. Digitized sounds and voices, too.

suppafly

11-19-2007, 11:32 AM

Battletoads looked like a 16 bit game to me. Lots of parallax scrolling backgounds and colorful levels....it was great

Same for SHAdow of the Ninja by Natsume. Great graphics and exciting music.

ccovell

11-19-2007, 12:13 PM

A lot of games (mentioned above) have great art and placement of graphics, but don't push the limits of the NES so much. But some games did make me wonder, "wow, was this really done on the NES?"

A few of those that come to my mind are Recca, Gimmick!, and Overlord.

williewonka2k1

11-19-2007, 12:18 PM

I bought an Earthbound Zero reproduction cart, and my roomates here at school thought it looked like a SNES title.

Daria

11-19-2007, 01:06 PM

Well I just mentioned it in another topic, but definately Willow. That game would have looked at home on the SNES.

http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/6794/willow1pz8.png http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/1301/willownesscreenshot2kk9.jpg

Kamino

11-19-2007, 01:16 PM

colour a dinousaur and back to the future.best nes games evar

j_factor

11-19-2007, 01:30 PM

Zoda's Revenge. In particular the "talking" animations were kind of neat.

Rob2600

11-19-2007, 01:43 PM

Several Komani and Capcom games:

Track & Field II (borderline Genesis graphics and sound, large sprites, detailed backgrounds, great sound)
Mega Man II (great graphics and sound, huge bosses at the end)
TMNT II: The Arcade Game (detailed graphics, animated backgrounds, good sound)
Contra
Castlevania III
etc.

Also, Batman: Return of the Joker features large sprites through the game. I think there was a lot of flicker though, right?

GrandAmChandler

11-19-2007, 01:43 PM

Skate or Die 2 has the best sound of any NES game. Try to argue this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=X8TmIxHSBcU

jb143

11-19-2007, 01:44 PM

Talking about Battletoads...TMNT 2 & 3 were pretty good too but I doubt they really pushed the system. SMB3 was probally far from it as well although it did take game design to a new level.

Is there a different version of Back to the Future that I'm not remembering? I kinda liked it when it first came out but now it gives me a headache thinking about it. Even "2&3" to some degree.

That's a good list of games that I'm going to have to try now. I'm really interested in the games that look like they're running on a 16 bit system. They don't even have to be good games.

8bitgamer

11-19-2007, 01:46 PM

I remember being impressed by T&C Surf Designs Thrilla's Surfari.

Rob2600

11-19-2007, 01:52 PM

Skate or Die 2 has the best sound of any NES game. Try to argue this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=X8TmIxHSBcU

That's impressive, but overall the song is pretty bad and begins to sound like a mess with all of the low quality digitized samples.

I'd much rather listen to the music from other NES games like Mega Man II, Ninja Gaiden, Ninja Gaiden II, Legendary Wings, Blades of Steel, or Castlevania.

roushimsx

11-19-2007, 01:58 PM

Came to post Recca and was well beaten. Incredible to think that that was pulled off on the NES.

staxx

11-19-2007, 02:12 PM

Rob2600

11-19-2007, 02:13 PM

Came to post Recca and was well beaten. Incredible to think that that was pulled off on the NES.

I'd never heard of Recca before and just looked it up on YouTube. I'm impressed with the amount of sprites and effects on screen with no slowdown. There is a little bit of flicker in some areas, but that's nit-picking.

Level 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t_Ve4Ljs8I

Gameplay highlights:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2ju27kwZls

bangtango

11-19-2007, 02:29 PM

I always thought the 8-bit versions of Mario is Missing and Battletoads & Double Dragon pushed the NES pretty well. I remember that the 16-bit versions of both of those didn't look a whole lot different. Same with Super Mario Bros. 3, which was hardly touched up in All Stars.

One game that I thought looked like shit, in the later day NES era, was Tetris 2. It looked even worse than the original NES Tetris.

I was secretly hoping Nintendo would release that port of Super Mario World (scaled down from the SNES copy) that was rumored in some of the magazines around the time of the NES' demise.

A game that some people might forget about is Double Dragon II. That looked damn good, particularly that fight on the train with it moving back and forth.

staxx

11-19-2007, 02:30 PM

I should add Jackie Chan Action Kung Fu to the mix.

NES:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=lOsuOjyswKY

PC Engine / TG 16
http://youtube.com/watch?v=suuc4tq_qvI

lkermel

11-19-2007, 02:49 PM

Rob2600

11-19-2007, 03:06 PM

When I read this thread, Crisis Force came to mind. It is a Famicom game (no NES release, sorry), but it is a game that blew my mind. Just watch the movie from the third stage to see what I mean.

STAGE 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws5ujH65hfg
STAGE 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wdi9tZKoQA&feature=related
STAGE 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fg0LJDpPdS8&feature=related
STAGE 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCYHhKkjXC8&feature=related

That game looks great...another one I'd never known about. I especially like the 4-layer parallax 3D chasm effect.

I wish it were released in the U.S. back in 1991. My friends and I would've gone nuts for it.

Crisis Force (Famicom) boss battles, part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hggswIafFA&feature=related)

Gentlegamer

11-19-2007, 05:49 PM

Sword Master features multi-level parallax scrolling and large sprites.

Metal Storm has great animation, music, and parallax scrolling. It looks like a 16-bit game with a lower color palette.

Frankie_Says_Relax

11-19-2007, 05:50 PM

River City Ransom

so much to do, so much going on on-screen (with play-fields that sometime scroll long off-screen), 2 player simultaneous play, minimal slow-down, great animations, great music ...

... probably my all time favorite NES game, and a still unrivaled beat-em-up that pushes the system even if not in technical limitations - in creative development IMO (if only God Hand for PS2 had a 2 player mode...I'd feel like we got some sort of last gen version of RCR's formula!).

klausien

11-19-2007, 07:11 PM

Both Cosmic Epsilon and J.J. on the Famicom 3D are intense effect-wise. Especially Cosmic Epsilon. The bosses are crazy. Both look pretty great without the glasses too.

Yes it uses extra chips, but the Japanese Castlevania III (Akumajou Densetsu) has incredible sound. The graphics of both the US and Jp versions of CV III, Contra & Super C have always been impressive to me.

108Stars

11-19-2007, 08:19 PM

Super Turrican is pretty awesome.

tomaitheous

11-19-2007, 08:40 PM

Super Turrican is pretty awesome.

For the NES!?

j_factor

11-20-2007, 01:52 AM

Yeah, a game called Super Turrican was released for the NES, albeit only in Europe. It actually features levels from Turrican and Turrican 2 and some unique features. It's completely unrelated to Super Turrican for SNES (aside from being in the same series of course).

And yeah, it definitely pushes the NES to its limit.

Graham Mitchell

11-20-2007, 03:25 AM

That's a good list of games that I'm going to have to try now. I'm really interested in the games that look like they're running on a 16 bit system. They don't even have to be good games.

Check out anything developed by Rare Coin-It, the people who did Battletoads. When the Stamper brothers were presented with the opportunity to develop for the Famicom, Nintendo Co. Ltd. were bastards and wouldn't teach them how to use the development libraries, so they had to sort of reverse-engineer the machine and figure out how it worked on their own. In doing they, so discovered methods of design that Nintendo themselves hadn't even intended, which gave Rare a serious edge over other designers throughout the life span of the NES/Famicom.

Slalom, a black box game ported from the Vs system, was the first they developed, and it's pretty damn cool compared to anything from that era. Later they did things like R.C. Pro Am and Cobra Triangle which were just mind-blowing. Also see Solar Jetman, Snake Rattle and Roll, Wizards and Warriors 1-3, the NES version of Marble Madness--these are games whose appearance defies the hardware they were developed for.

Rare did become somewhat of a big conversion house (something I read the Stampers weren't wild about) and they were responsible for a number of arcade ports. Some of them, like the aforementioned Marble Madness, were great. Others, like Narc or Cabal, were not so hot. But almost anything developed de novo by Rare is pure gold, and is head and shoulders above anything else on the machine in terms of appearance.

I can't stress Solar Jetman enough, either. It's brilliant--an updated version of Atari's Gravitar.

Ruudos

11-20-2007, 09:04 AM

Dire 51

11-20-2007, 09:31 AM

Another Fami exclusive here: Gradius II. I remember seeing preview pics of it in GamePro and EGM in late '89 and being absolutely blown away by it. I was able to snag a copy about five years later, and after playing I realized that still pictures didn't do it justice. Absolutely amazing. It even has some impressive voices (the standard "speed up - missile - double - laser - option - force field" power bar stuff).

jb143

11-20-2007, 10:16 AM

Yeah, I always noticed that Rare seemed to be doing something completely different in their games. They do look like they're somewhere between most nes games and snes. They even carried their level of high standards and system pushing game design onto the other systems they developed for.

Rob2600

11-20-2007, 10:32 AM

Check out anything developed by Rare Coin-It, the people who did Battletoads. ... Slalom ... R.C. Pro Am and Cobra Triangle ... Solar Jetman, Snake Rattle and Roll, Wizards and Warriors 1-3, the NES version of Marble Madness--these are games whose appearance defies the hardware they were developed for. ... I can't stress Solar Jetman enough

I haven't played Solar Jetman. I'll have to give it a try.

I've owned Marble Madness, R.C. Pro-Am, and Wizards and Warriors. They were fun games, but their graphics weren't anything special. They looked decent, but some Konami and Capcom games in 1987 looked better (Rush 'n Attack, Castlevania, Mega Man, etc.).

jb143

11-20-2007, 02:23 PM

I wonder if there's a way to tell which games actually do squeeze the last bit of power out of the system. Maybe using an emulator???

Some games have pretty graphics and fancy efects but that alone doesn't nesicarily mean anything. Other games struggle to keep up with all the action that occurs on the screen but that can usually be overcome with more efficient programing. I remember TMNT 2 looking really nice with big sprites and lots of variety but it would slow down at times. Was this because it was really pushing the system or because the program could have been optimized more? I guess the real key would have been for the game designers to have done all the above and more. And if it's a fun game too...now that's a game I want to play.

The same could be said for about any system. When it's life is almost over the programmers are finaly finding everything it can do and so you get a few games that are even better than some of the new systems.

Rob2600

11-20-2007, 03:02 PM

Some games have pretty graphics and fancy efects but that alone doesn't nesicarily mean anything. Other games struggle to keep up with all the action that occurs on the screen but that can usually be overcome with more efficient programing. I remember TMNT 2 looking really nice with big sprites and lots of variety but it would slow down at times. Was this because it was really pushing the system or because the program could have been optimized more? I guess the real key would have been for the game designers to have done all the above and more.

Some development teams had talented artists, good art directors, and efficient programmers...and used enhancement chips in their games. Who knows how far the NES could've been pushed with the help of newer, more powerful MMC chips.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-Memory_Controller

I guess at some point it makes more sense financially to move to more powerful hardware instead of paying for enhancement chips.

jb143

11-20-2007, 03:56 PM

Most of those are bank switching chips...to swap memory in and out since an 8 bit system can only access so much at a time. I see how some of them can add better sound capabilities but can you add enhanced graphics capabilities with an on cart chip? I'd be interested in finding out if games did that. I know that snes claimed to with the FX chip but I think that was more of a marketing ploy. I guess the 32X did in a way but that could hardly be called a cartridge and needed all sorts of extra connections.

Rob2600

11-20-2007, 04:18 PM

Most of those are bank switching chips...to swap memory in and out since an 8 bit system can only access so much at a time. I see how some of them can add better sound capabilities but can you add enhanced graphics capabilities with an on cart chip?

Of course. That's the main purpose. "These chips extended the capabilities of the original console and made it possible to create NES games with features the original console could not offer."

To paraphrase the Wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-Memory_Controller):

The MMC2 allowed larger graphics to be used on screen.

The MMC3 made split-screen scrolling easier to perform, mainly to allow the playfield to scroll while the status bar would remain motionless at the top or bottom of the screen.

The MMC5 supported vertical split-screen scrolling and improved graphics capabilities, like making 16,384 different tiles available per screen rather than only 256 and allowing each individual tile to have its own color assignment.

The FME-7 enabled split-screen effects with minimal use of processing power.

jb143

11-20-2007, 05:08 PM

I guess I saw that as more of extending the graphics capabilities rather than enhancing them. But adding more memory capabilities to a game does make more room for better graphics and sound(and hopefully gameplay).

This still fits the topic so...does anyone know of the largest NES games?

Gamingking

11-20-2007, 05:29 PM

They're are alot.

nesworld

11-20-2007, 05:57 PM

I can't stress Solar Jetman enough, either. It's brilliant--an updated version of Atari's Gravitar.

Well Rare shouldn't be credited for Solar Jetman, they hired Zippo Games to do the dirty work, same goes for Wizards and Warriors 3 :-)

Kudos to the Pickford brothers and programmer Steve Hughes...

miaandjohnrule

11-20-2007, 06:12 PM

I would think maybe some of the later Koei titles?

Rob2600

11-20-2007, 06:12 PM

Well Rare shouldn't be credited for Solar Jetman, they hired Zippo Games to do the dirty work, same goes for Wizards and Warriors 3

Ironsword: Wizards & Warriors II, as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironsword:_Wizards_%26_Warriors_II

aaron7

11-20-2007, 10:17 PM

Lickle... er... Little Samson was pretty badass.

aaron7

11-20-2007, 10:19 PM

They're are alot.

Wow. I couldn't ignore this... I think you posted the worst grammatical post EVER!

There, not they're (they are)

"A" and "lot" are two different words.

Not to mention that doesn't make sense. Should be "There are many"

IronBuddha

11-21-2007, 02:24 AM

Wow. I couldn't ignore this... I think you posted the worst grammatical post EVER!

There, not they're (they are)

"A" and "lot" are two different words.

Not to mention that doesn't make sense. Should be "There are many"

I hate it when people point out spelling/grammar mistakes, who cares? We're not all English majors.
Sorry no offense, it's just something I see all the time that bugs me. Me personally I always feel like "yea so what?" when people point these things out. I understood what he meant and I'm sure other people did as well, and trust me I've seen way worst then his post. I'm not bashing you, just using this as an example, just my little opinion.

But anyways back on topic, I remember when I first played Kirby's Adventures and couldn't believe the graphics and everything of that game.

InsaneDavid

11-21-2007, 04:36 AM

Wow. I couldn't ignore this... I think you posted the worst grammatical post EVER!

There, not they're (they are)

"A" and "lot" are two different words.

Not to mention that doesn't make sense. Should be "There are many"

Thank you for beating me to it aaron7, I was going to say something myself but I've been a bit harsh on the old 'king lately it seems. :roll: Now the post below yours... no David... leave that one alone too...

StarTropics II: Zoda's Revenge. Although I enjoy the original far more (favorite NES game) Zoda's Revenge broke the mold of the flat adventure game by incorporating varying levels of vertical depth in a 3/4 perspective. (action sequences) All this was accomplished at a fast and extremely smooth frame rate with super responsive (possibly too responsive) controls. Graphically the game was beautiful as well - as j_factor mentioned. While the music was some of the best heard on the platform, the sound effects were total ass - especially compared to the original.

mrmark0673

11-21-2007, 07:10 AM

Off the top of my head:

Kirby's Adventure
Metalstorm
SMB 3
The Mega Man games

I think Ufouria has some great graphics (and gameplay for that matter), but it was a PAL only release. Panic Restaurant has some nice sprites too. Overall, I think many of the Capcom and Konami releases had some of the best graphics on the system.