AVGN Reviews Dragon's Lair

[joshnickerson]

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/28184.html

The NES version, that is. I had no idea the game was that bad. I remember seeing a preview for that game in some Gamepro book, and the sole screenshot they had was of that first screen. I guess they never managed to get past it either.

I've actually been looking for a copy of that game to see how it played, but after watching that, I know to stay the hell away.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Oh thank god, the NES version. Phew. You scared me for a second.

[Steven]

on a side note, I know many of you already know him, but today I just saw Irate Gamer for the first time ever. I gotta say, I think I like his style a little bit more than all the others. The one I watched was for Yo-Noid... it was pretty damn brilliant

[Graham Mitchell]

Although I do enjoy the nerd (for some reason) I happen to think Dragon's Lair is a good game. It looks like a platformer, and he expects it to play like a platformer, but it's not and it doesn't. The game relies heavily on precision, memorization, and above all practice. If you think about it, that's basically what the arcade game was like, wasn't it? Most likely that's what Motivetime (whoever the hell they are) was going for when they designed it--to approximate the gameplay of the coin-op version.

The game is hard, but I've played pretty far into it, and it's got some depth to it that he couldn't touch on because he couldn't get far enough.

I just don't want everybody to think it sucks. It doesn't. It's just not as straightforward of a game as he expects it to be.

[Garry Silljo]

Although I do enjoy the nerd (for some reason) I happen to think Dragon's Lair is a good game. It looks like a platformer, and he expects it to play like a platformer, but it's not and it doesn't. The game relies heavily on precision, memorization, and above all practice. If you think about it, that's basically what the arcade game was like, wasn't it? Most likely that's what Motivetime (whoever the hell they are) was going for when they designed it--to approximate the gameplay of the coin-op version.

The game is hard, but I've played pretty far into it, and it's got some depth to it that he couldn't touch on because he couldn't get far enough.

I just don't want everybody to think it sucks. It doesn't. It's just not as straightforward of a game as he expects it to be.

I have to disagree with you. I've played it through to the end, and it does indeed suck. Of course I don't like any version of Dragon's Lair. To me, a game that is PURE memorization is not a game. However in the other versions at least part of the screen will flash as to give you at least some clue as to when you should hit a button. In the NES version the only way to figure out what to do is to die. Is that supposed to be fun? They also need to get rid of those daggers and give dirk his sword back so you can actually hit something.

[FantasiaWHT]

To me, a game that is PURE memorization is not a game.

QFT. How fun would chess be if your computer opponent always did the exact same moves every time until you beat it, and then picked a new pattern?

[jcalder8]

To me, a game that is PURE memorization is not a game.
I was about to agree with you but thinking about it aren't most platformers PURE memorization? How often does SMB change? or Mega Man? Thinking about most people's favorite platformers from the time, and even into today, they are almost all pure memorization of what comes next. The holes are always in the same spots as are the enemies. The only time you lose a life is when you forget and make a mistake.

[Flack]

I was about to agree with you but thinking about it aren't most platformers PURE memorization? How often does SMB change? or Mega Man? Thinking about most people's favorite platformers from the time, and even into today, they are almost all pure memorization of what comes next. The holes are always in the same spots as are the enemies. The only time you lose a life is when you forget and make a mistake.

The difference is, you can still play SMB without memorization.

[kainemaxwell]

To me, a game that is PURE memorization is not a game.
So do you feel that way about Lethal Enforcers, Virtua Cop or other light gun games?

[Gamingking]

I guess he's back from his break, and making reviews again?.

[Garry Silljo]

So do you feel that way about Lethal Enforcers, Virtua Cop or other light gun games?

Not as much so no. Any game in existance can be mastered through memorization, but most, Lethal Enforcers, and Virtua Cop included could be won on the first try by someone who never played it before if they just happened to be skilled enough. Not likely, but possible. This simply isn't the case in Dragon's Lair where more often than not the only way to know to do something or sometimes not do something (eat me, drink me room) is to die. That's just dumb. Some one who sucks at light gun games can master then through memorization, but some one who is good at them doesn't have to. There is no person who is "good" at an FMV game. Only those who have died enough to know the way.

[Kitsune Sniper]

So do you feel that way about Lethal Enforcers, Virtua Cop or other light gun games?

You can still be good or bad at light gun games and succeed. You can miss or spend a few extra seconds shooting at enemies and be able to go on.

With Dragon's Lair and similar games, either you do what it wants, when it wants, or else you die. That isn't a game. I thought it sucked ass when I was eight years old - and it still sucks ass now. It isn't a game. It's a choose your own adventure book in laserdisc format.

[kazuo]

NES Dragon's Lair looks pretty crazy, considering its on NES.

That video is hilarious. hahahaha

Thanks for the heads-up, I haven't been keeping tabs on his GT page lately.

[sidnotcrazy]

I agree with Gary. Most players (including myself) use memorization to progress through levels in games. This is all part of the fun.

Now Dragon’s Lair is more centralized on the concept of memorization, but it is still memorization and timing that allows for progression. Can’t this be said for all games? If you don’t happen to enjoy Dragon’s Lair, that’s fine, its not for everyone. However complaining about a title for its memorization sounds a little unfair to me.

Most of the people I talk to that don’t enjoy Dragon’s Lair say it lacks depth. Which I can’t really argue with that kind of logic.

Personally, I love Dragon’s Lair, and the nes version isn’t bad at all considering what they had to work with.

[playgeneration]

It doesn't matter how terrible a game is, there will always be people who stick up for it

[Graham Mitchell]

You know what, though guys? Games are art on some level, and art is subjective. If Dragon's Lair played like it was broken, was glitchy, or looked like hell, I'd agree with everybody in that it sucks.

You just don't like that style of games; that doesn't mean it sucks.

I don't like classical music or jazz very much, but that doesn't mean it sucks.

Most of the games the nerd reviews do suck. They were rushed, unoriginal, bland, and poorly tested prior to release. Dragon's Lair looks GREAT. It was lovingly crafted. You guys just aren't into it, which is fine. But that doesn't mean it sucks. There's probably a lot of people here who would really enjoy it.

This reminds me of when everybody was ranting over Myst, saying "Myst is not a game". Myst is a game, come on. It may not be in the format you're used to seeing games in, and it may have a loophole where, if you cheat, you can beat it in 2 minutes, but that doesn't mean it's not a game. It's a very challenging puzzle if you play it the way it's intended, and the presentation is very atmospheric and beautiful. There's just something about it that hardcore gamers don't like, but that doesn't mean it's not a game.

[Oobgarm]

"I'd rather fucking stand in the middle of a ring of monkeys as they pelt me to death with their own anal waste"

Absolutely hilarious.

[Daria]

This reminds me of when everybody was ranting over Myst, saying "Myst is not a game". Myst is a game, come on. It may not be in the format you're used to seeing games in, and it may have a loophole where, if you cheat, you can beat it in 2 minutes, but that doesn't mean it's not a game. It's a very challenging puzzle if you play it the way it's intended, and the presentation is very atmospheric and beautiful. There's just something about it that hardcore gamers don't like, but that doesn't mean it's not a game.

I thought Myst was awesome. And it spurred a lot of really cool "me too" first person adventure games. Like AMBER.

[FantasiaWHT]

If Dragon's Lair played like it was broken, was glitchy, or looked like hell, I'd agree with everybody in that it sucks.

See, I'd say that the arguments AVGN makes about the stupidity of the health bar and the stupidity of walking into a door = death are borderline convincing for labeling the game broken, or at the least poorly designed.

[Sparkster]

Dragon's Lair is among my most hated games ever. Dirk is too slow to dodge many projectiles, he loses health when he throws the dagger, and one shot kills him.

On a side note, I have the book How to Win at Nintendo Games 4, which includes Dragon's Lair, as well as a rating...

Challenge: B+ (This guy must be frickin awesome at gaming)
Graphics: A (can't disagree there)
Sound Effects: A (my memory isn't helping with this one)
Simulation: A (I have no idea what this is looking for)

Overall: A- (I wonder if we're even talking about the same game)

And as comparison, the author also reviewed other games in his book:
Castlevania 3: B
Mega Man 3: B
Ninja Gaiden 2: B
Silver Surfer: B (This guy must have some awesome crack)
Spot: A-
Star Tropics: B+

Anyways, Dragon's Lair is a horrible, frustrating game. Even massive cheating can't save this steaming pile of monkey dung.

[Shaggy_Arcade]

I didn't enjoy Dragon's Lair either or Space Ace for that matter. I did like Braindead 13 however, that added a little more variety along with a good amount of humor that made it much more enjoyable for this type of game.

[Kitsune Sniper]

You know what, though guys? Games are art on some level, and art is subjective. If Dragon's Lair played like it was broken, was glitchy, or looked like hell, I'd agree with everybody in that it sucks.

You just don't like that style of games; that doesn't mean it sucks.

I don't like classical music or jazz very much, but that doesn't mean it sucks.

Most of the games the nerd reviews do suck. They were rushed, unoriginal, bland, and poorly tested prior to release. Dragon's Lair looks GREAT. It was lovingly crafted. You guys just aren't into it, which is fine. But that doesn't mean it sucks. There's probably a lot of people here who would really enjoy it.

This reminds me of when everybody was ranting over Myst, saying "Myst is not a game". Myst is a game, come on. It may not be in the format you're used to seeing games in, and it may have a loophole where, if you cheat, you can beat it in 2 minutes, but that doesn't mean it's not a game. It's a very challenging puzzle if you play it the way it's intended, and the presentation is very atmospheric and beautiful. There's just something about it that hardcore gamers don't like, but that doesn't mean it's not a game.

MYST is a glorified screensaver. I played it when it was new, dammit, it STILL wasn't fun back then.

And I was talking about the original Laserdisc version, not the version he played. I haven't seen this review yet.

[Rob2600]

The difference is, you can still play SMB without memorization.


Any game in existance can be mastered through memorization, but most, Lethal Enforcers, and Virtua Cop included, could be won on the first try by someone who never played it before if they just happened to be skilled enough. ... This simply isn't the case in Dragon's Lair where more often than not the only way to know to do something or sometimes not do something (eat me, drink me room) is to die. That's just dumb. Some one who sucks at light gun games can master then through memorization, but some one who is good at them doesn't have to. There is no person who is "good" at an FMV game. Only those who have died enough to know the way.

Yes, exactly. A game like Super Mario Bros. or Mega Man can be played, enjoyed, and maybe even beaten by a skilled player on the first few tries.

A well designed video game should give the player an opportunity to react to challenges and enemies. A well designed video game should also employ some level of logic and consistency.

Regarding Dragon's Lair for the NES, a player shouldn't lose a life for walking into a normal door. In addition, it doesn't make sense that a player can crouch on one part of a bridge, but can't crouch a few inches away on the same bridge.

[MrSparkle]

NES Version of dragons lair, what can i say other than at least it isnt the sega cd version lol.

[Garry Silljo]

You just don't like that style of games; that doesn't mean it sucks.


It does to me, and that's all that really matters. I'm not speaking definitively. If I say something sucks, I imply that this is my belief and I am only speaking for myself. At no time was I trying to force your belief to match me.

As for Myst, it's a million times better than Dragon's Lair... but that's just me talking.

[Graham Mitchell]

It does to me, and that's all that really matters. I'm not speaking definitively. If I say something sucks, I imply that this is my belief and I am only speaking for myself. At no time was I trying to force your belief to match me.

As for Myst, it's a million times better than Dragon's Lair... but that's just me talking.

Fair enough.

I suppose I for some reason I do get a charge out of some games like Dragon's Lair, because when you're on a roll it's quite a rush. It's amusing enough, and presented well enough, to persuade me to persevere through the obnoxious difficulty just to see what happens. And when you go back and try it after putting it down for awhile, you'll find your memory kicks in and you just rock it. It feels pretty good when you're on a roll. Your senses need to really alert and you can feel real exertion and effort coming from your body-it's definitely not something you can relax with. It feels pretty good when I'm in the thick of it for some reason. But, I admit, this is not something that I think the designers really intended, and it's something that I find only after revisiting the game several times.

As for the original Dragon's Lair, I share most people's disgust with FMV games, but Dragon's Lair and Space Ace have always been on a different level for me. I felt that they were superior to tripe like Ground Zero: Texas because of the artistry that went in to making them. I went to the Game On exhibit at the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago, and they had actual cells from Dragon's Lair, as well as Bluth's original sketches of Daphne and the purple troll things. I was just enthralled with that, and I got a sense that others did too--there were many people there taking pics of those exhibits. And I'm surprised more people in this thread aren't in support of the old Laserdisc game as I've seen many threads on here in the past where people seem to really enjoy it. There was a lot of interest in the Daphne emulator a few years ago, for example. I guess tastes are dynamic.