Xbox Originals

[monkeysuit]

So along with the Fall dashboard update, Microsoft added Xbox Classics to the Marketplace today. All of the games have been set at 1200 MS points ($15 USD) and include a downloadable manual.

Here is the official website: http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/xboxoriginals/default.htm

Games Released:
Psychonauts
Halo
Indigo Prophecy
Fuzion Frenzy
Fable
Crimson Skies: High Road to Revenge
Crash Bandicoot: Wrath of the Cortex

So who's downloading what?

[swlovinist]

The prices are high for some of those, but I may download Psychonauts. Good to see Crimson Skies on there, although you can get that at any Gamestop for like 4 bucks.

[FantasiaWHT]

$15? Can't you buy all of those games for less than that in physical form if you get them used?

[mailman187666]

$15? Can't you buy all of those games for less than that in physical form if you get them used?

I was thinking the same thing, but this is something that may appeal to people who want to play a full xbox game without having to drive to the store or isn't quite up to date on prices. Do these games come with Achievements?

[8-bitNesMan]

I am highly disappointed that they chose to not update the games at all. No achievements, no Live play, and no guide button access during gameplay. I was looking at a thread about this on the Xbox.com forums, and I saw where one of their mods tried to spin the situation. They said the "coolness" of this is that you can download the games and you "don't have to mess with a disc". WTF? I think they really dropped the ball on this one...

[Leo_A]

That list you posted doesn't match your link.

According to that link, the games are:

Crash Bandicoot
Crimson Skies
Fable
Fusion Frenzy
Halo
Indigo Prophecy
Psychonauts


I'll probably test it out sometime soon and pick up Fable, Indigo Prophecy, and Psychonauts. Missed out on those the first time around.

[Oobgarm]

No achievements?

Nah.

[Half Japanese]

Count me out too. The only one of those games I'm somewhat interested in that I don't already physically own is Indigo Prophecy, and I'm not stupid enough as a consumer not to know that I can pick it up cheaper used and have an actual disc, not a huge file sitting on my paltry 20gb hard drive. The pricing on these is absurd considering they didn't really do anything but allow them to sit on a hard drive.

On the other hand, I'm seriously considering downloading Twisted Metal 2 ($5.99) from the Playstation Store....me and Mr. Grimm had some good times back in the day.

[monkeysuit]

Do these games come with Achievements?

Unfortunately, no.


That list you posted doesn't match your link.

Fixed.

The lack of achievements really is disappointing. I'm pretty sure that Crimson Skies has Live play though.

[8-bitNesMan]

The lack of achievements really is disappointing. I'm pretty sure that Crimson Skies has Live play though.

I think I speak for a lot of people when I say the biggest disappointment is no online play for Halo 1. I know from a programming standpoint it would not have been an easy task, but it would have sure made it worth the 15 clams.

[heybtbm]

Only a sucker or someone extremely lazy would buy these games for $15 a pop. How hard is it to find a place that sells used games? To each their own I guess. Anyway, as I've mentioned in a previous thread, this downloadable full game bullshit is a slippery slope.

[monkeysuit]

I think I speak for a lot of people when I say the biggest disappointment is no online play for Halo 1. I know from a programming standpoint it would not have been an easy task, but it would have sure made it worth the 15 clams.

Oh, yeah, of course I agree with you. To me $15 is extremely too much to pay for most of these games. Actually, another issue that hasn't been brought up is the size of these games! If you plan on downloading and keeping a lot of these games, you better start looking into a 120 GB hard drive.

Psychonauts (Majesco) - 3.9GB
Indigo Prophecy (Atari) - 1.9GB
Fuzion Frenzy (MGS) - 2.0GB
Crimson Skies: High Road to Revenge (MGS) - 4.1GB
Fable (MGS) - 3.2GB
Halo (MGS) - 2.3GB
Crash Bandicoot: Wrath of the Cortex (Vivendi Games) - 935MB

[Alucard79]

So is anyone against buying games this way? Although it's a great way for other people to experience some good games they may have missed, it is just adding to the inevitable digital distribution that I believe we all dread as collectors. Most have mentioned you can get these games used for less, but I have bought most these titles for the same or less price new. If they start adding extra features or expansions to these games I may download a few of them, but until they add multiplayer, or achievements, or whatever, I don't think I take part in it. To me, it's the start of our collection values going down. What happens when Suikoden 2 or Panzer Dragoon become easily available for 10 or 15 bucks? Anyway, that's my opinion, end rant.

[8-bitNesMan]

To me, it's the start of our collection values going down. What happens when Suikoden 2 or Panzer Dragoon become easily available for 10 or 15 bucks?

I agree and disagree with this. I do see it impacting values in a way. When the rom is readily available for people who want to play, then our hard copies are not worth as much. But what good is just a rom to a die hard collector? I don't see that the NWC repros have put a dent in the price of the real thing. But sadly I think we must get used to it. Digital distribution is here to stay.

[mailman187666]

I think it would have been worth the $15 if they included achievements. That couldn't be too hard from a developers standpoint could it?

[Gentlegamer]

Yeah, those prices may have been reasonable if achievements has been added. Otherwise, what is the incentive to purchase them over the actual hard copies that are readily available (for less) at GameStop, ebay, and so on?

[FAMOUS]

If acheivments are offered, i would most likely purchase a game or two..but like every else said $15 for a game thats gonna take up some space and not give online/acheivments, NO DICE!

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

While I certainly see the flaw in dowloading these games when all of the above titles can be purchased new or used for less than what MS is charging (among other good reasons NOT to make them available) ...

... in the "big picture" of the future of XBL, I don't think that this is completely a bad thing.

I'm always a huge supporter of bigger feature sets for consoles and portables, even if said features aren't ones that I use.

For instance, I'd never download a movie on XBL, but I know people that do almost all of their HD movie renting / watching on an XBL setup.

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of great reasons not to download any of the initial XB Originals, but, it's groundwork for for potential usefullness in the future. If they can enhance the existing titles with achievements, or online play in the case of games like Halo 1, I can see the value increasing exponentially.

[heybtbm]

I think it would have been worth the $15 if they included achievements. That couldn't be too hard from a developers standpoint could it?

According to the head of XBL, adding achievements to Xbox games would be impossible. They apparently would have to build the game up again from scratch. There's a decent interview with the guy on Gamespot (or IGN..whatever) last week that discussed the achievement issue.

[mailman187666]

I'm sure there are going to be plenty of people downloading these games. People like ourselves are a bit more into the gaming comunity and are aware of what certain values are and we also prefer physical over virtual for the most part. I agree also that this is a great new addition to XBL, but is it one for gamers like us? maybe not. M$ will most likely make thier profit off these titles, but they probably could have made a hell of a lot more by including some of those extra features to appeal to gamers like us.

[Spartacus]

I'm just impressed that they offer a downloadable manual. Are they the only ones doing that?

[kaedesdisciple]

I'm sure there are going to be plenty of people downloading these games. People like ourselves are a bit more into the gaming comunity and are aware of what certain values are and we also prefer physical over virtual for the most part. I agree also that this is a great new addition to XBL, but is it one for gamers like us? maybe not. M$ will most likely make thier profit off these titles, but they probably could have made a hell of a lot more by including some of those extra features to appeal to gamers like us.

Exactly. I would imagine it was a somewhat of a cost-benefit analysis. The cost to put the extra development effort into these older games likely far outweighed the minimal extra profits they knew they would make by trying to appeal to the more hardcore gamer. The casuals would buy it regardless of what else was put on top of it, so it was probably very little skin off of their backs. Who knows, if they see enough profit from it, maybe they will consider putting some more effort into these games.

[s1lence]

I have a feeling that regardless of what has been said, if these flop on the download side with out achievements that Microsoft will find a way to patch them with achievements.

Either way for the cost, I'm going to pass.

[Cryomancer]

Give me Toejam and Earl III with online Co-Op and acheivements and I'll download it for 20 bucks, despite already owning the game. And release True Fantasy Live Online too, damnit. Or the english version of Rent-A-Hero, the cancelled port of Illbleed, something. Give us things that never came out and I'll be all over this.

[Joker T]

No Online, no Achievements, no HD, no purchase for me.

This was a huge missed opportunity, if you want to play the original Halo than go buy it, its not hard to find. I would of bought the Xbox Originals version of Halo day 1 if it had online and achievements. But as is, its just an old game repackaged for $15.

I also find it hard to believe Microsoft, that it is "Impossible" to add achievements.

[diskoboy]

Already a topic on this:

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=109075

[DOL_001]

Wow, I already own 5 of those in physical form and they only cost me $5-10. I can't really see this feature take off.

[heybtbm]

FYI: Each "Xbox Original" has a free theme and gamer picture pack available for download.

[Daria]

According to the head of XBL, adding achievements to Xbox games would be impossible. They apparently would have to build the game up again from scratch. There's a decent interview with the guy on Gamespot (or IGN..whatever) last week that discussed the achievement issue.


I don't know. You think they could have put in at least a single achievement that triggered when you "beat" the game. Maybe not 1000 points all at once... but something. 250 like an arcade title would have been cool.

[Nature Boy]

So is anyone against buying games this way?

I'm not against it at all, although I wouldn't buy any Xbox 1 games at that price with no achievements to have fun with.

In the end all i want to do is enjoy games big and small. And it makes sense to me to distribute small games via a online service that keeps costs down. I'd rather pick up 2 or 3 retro games on XBLA rather than buy 1 or 2 compilation discs at much greater price with games I can live without.

[Nature Boy]

According to the head of XBL, adding achievements to Xbox games would be impossible. They apparently would have to build the game up again from scratch.

Building up the game from scratch certainly isn't impossible. It would cost them more than it's worth (at this point) for sure though, which makes it a financially impossibility.

[8-bitNesMan]

Building up the game from scratch certainly isn't impossible. It would cost them more than it's worth (at this point) for sure though, which makes it a financially impossibility.

This is what I wonder about. How hard would it be to take the existing source code and use it to build a new game with achievements and online play? It obviously can be done (looks at XBLA titles). I realize Halo is somewhat more complex than say, Smash TV, but why not wait and do it the right way? Sure there will be people who will buy these overpriced titles anyway but why not do it right and sell them to even more? Go for the folks like us who have the hard copies and wouldn't dream of buying the virtual ones. Seems to me they could sell a ton of 120 GB hard drives if they would give us more bang for our buck.

[kaedesdisciple]

This is what I wonder about. How hard would it be to take the existing source code and use it to build a new game with achievements and online play? It obviously can be done (looks at XBLA titles). I realize Halo is somewhat more complex than say, Smash TV, but why not wait and do it the right way? Sure there will be people who will buy these overpriced titles anyway but why not do it right and sell them to even more? Go for the folks like us who have the hard copies and wouldn't dream of buying the virtual ones. Seems to me they could sell a ton of 120 GB hard drives if they would give us more bang for our buck.

I understand exactly what you are saying, but there is more to consider.

MS would first have to develop a strategy of where to put the achievements and decide technically how best to place them into the games. Then they would have to take developers off of existing projects, putting those projects behind. If they don't take off existing developers, then they would hire contractors or obtain some other type of resource to do the grunt work, all at some cost. Of course the developers would have to familiarize themselves with this code that they may have not seen for years, if ever. After finalizing design and completing construction they have to test and re-test the software to make sure the achievements work as they should and that the insertion hasn't broken any other part of the code. After the implementation they have to monitor the software to see if any of the users break the software in some way they didn't think of in testing and possibly have to fix it based upon severity. That's just an overview.

The total amount of money and resources this effort would cost likely exceeds the marginal increase of revenue they would see from the extra few percent of gamers downloading the software as a result of said effort. Of course I don't know for sure, but given proper project management practice and the known idea that Microsoft likes to extensively test anything before placement on the Live network, it's a reasonable assumption.

[Nature Boy]

Sure there will be people who will buy these overpriced titles anyway but why not do it right and sell them to even more?

Diminished returns I'd assume.

The costs for getting the games to work on the new machines is non-existent (they've already downloaded patches that make the game work, right?) So for the $15 per game they get, it's pretty much all profit (assuming they've already written off the costs for making games backwards compatible).

If you build the game from scratch, you have to price it according to what it's going to cost you to make it. So instead of selling it for $15 you'd probably want to sell it for $30 or something to get your money back. And selling an older game, even with Achievements, for $30 is pricey.

Now my numbers are all made up surely, but the gist of what I'm saying is coming through I think.