Kraft Joysticks

[Flack]

For at least a decade, the problem with emulation has not been technological in nature. For several years now, modern computers have been able to, for all intents and purposes, faithfully reproduce older computers, videogame consoles, and arcade machines. The difference between emulation and "the real deal" is all the other things that went along with those old gaming experiences -- and one of the most memorable things about those old games were their controls. Playing Atari games doesn't feel right to me unless I'm using an Atari joystick, and playing arcade games, no matter how accurately MAME reproduces their sounds and graphics, does not feel right unless I'm standing in front of an arcade machine's control panel.

Shortly after getting my Commodore 64 back in 1985, I got my favorite joystick of all time. Made by Kraft, the joystick had a short, black stick and a base the same color as the Commodore 64 itself. It also had a small switch on the bottom that swapped the stick between 4-way and 8-way mode. I'm sure a lot of it is just what you grew up with, but I hated all the Commodore joysticks that included buttons on top of the sticks (Wico, Thrustmaster, Boss, etc.) The Kraft's small size allowed it to be held much like the Epyx 500 sticks (which came out a few years later). My friend Jeff owned the Epyx sticks and, while I liked them too, the Kraft was always my favorite.

http://www.robohara.com/tech/pix/kraft.jpg

After almost twenty years of off-and-on usage, my old Kraft finally gave out on me. At first, it started having problems going left. You could still make it go left, but you had to press the small stick really hard. Unfortunately, the small stick wasn't meant for that kind of pressure and it quickly bent before breaking. I've tried a few other joysticks (including original Atari 2600 joysticks) on my old Commie, but games haven't felt the same since. After a year or two of missing that old Kraft, I did what pretty much everybody looking for old things does.

I turned to eBay.

I found a few of the old joysticks online, but I passed them by due to high prices. Most of the ones I saw were selling for $40 or more. Apparently, other people were interested in the sticks as well. After almost a year of searching I finally got one for $20. Finally! When the joystick arrived it was well-used, but at least it worked. I quickly hooked the stick up and got back to playing. In the back of my mind, I wondered how much life this stick had left in it. I kept my eBay searches going, in hopes of a better deal. Eventually, I found one. Four, to be exact.

A month or two ago I found someone selling four Kraft joysticks, still new in the box. The best part of the deal was, the seller was only asking $5 per joystick, and was willing to combine shipping. I bought all four in a heartbeat. When the joysticks arrived I was surprised to find they were black in color with a red firing button. Apparently Kraft made two different color combinations -- a black/red combo (for the Atari 2600) and a beige/black combo (for Commodore 64 owners). Functionally, the sticks are the same (Commodore 64 and Atari 2600 joysticks are interchangable).

Considering my original Kraft stick lasted 20 years, I now own a lifetime supply of joysticks. Time to get gaming, I'd say!

(Originally posted at tech.robohara.com (http://tech.robohara.com))

[OldSchoolGamer]

Sweet bud! I loved mine from years ago, just something about it, for me
definitely a classic! That and this one (though I don't recall the name)
were my favorites!!!!

http://www.atarimagazines.com/v8n5/Joystick.jpg


Ah, the joys of simplicity and good solid craftsmenship! How I miss you.....................

[Flack]

That looks similar to a Slik Stik, which I also own. I guess I like the smaller sticks because you can hold your left hand "sideways," rather than the way I cup an Atari stick. My favorites in order were probably the Kraft, the Epyx 500j, and the Slik Stik, followed by Atari sticks, followed by everything else.

[OldSchoolGamer]

I'll say this much, that SLIK STIK (SOUNDS FAMILIAR!)
was one tough little bugger!!!!!!:eek 2:

[Clownzilla]

I remember loving my Tandy CoCo 3 joystick (it looked a lot like the Kraft joystick that you love). It was simple and tough. Nothing makes me more upset than seeing modern companies make complete junk that takes an engineering degree to figure out. Fifty buttons, motion sensing, built in memory, analog, digital, wireless, etc.. IT'S MAKING ME GO INSAAAAAANE!

[Chuplayer]

Sweet bud! I loved mine from years ago, just something about it, for me
definitely a classic! That and this one (though I don't recall the name)
were my favorites!!!!

http://www.atarimagazines.com/v8n5/Joystick.jpg


Ah, the joys of simplicity and good solid craftsmenship! How I miss you.....................

TAC-20, if I'm not mistaken. I have one, but it's hidden away somewhere.

[Kid Ice]

I have the same relationship with my Tac 2 (the one pictured in OldSchoolGamer's post). I still have the original but it has issues with one of the diagonals...I've picked up a few reserves since.

I used to really want one of those Kraft sticks (I saw it advertised in EG) but I could never find them in stores. I was also under the impression they were made by people who make cheese.

[kaedesdisciple]

Kraft, that takes me back. Yup, I was also a huge fan of the Kraft sticks back in the C64 days. Nothing felt as responsive and just like you, I really enjoyed the fact that the button was not on top of the stick. I don't know where mine ran off to, but maybe when I get a C64 setup up and running again I'll try to track a few down myself.

[OldSchoolGamer]

Ah, from what I've found both the Tac-2 and Slik Stik were made by SUNCOM
and looked very similar!

[Flack]

Here are the Atari 2600 ones I got. The boxes say, "Atari Compatible." I believe the brown ones said "Commodore Compatible," but I'm not sure about that. Also, there appear to be 3 color combinations, not two. The picture I posted shows a red fire button on a brown unit; the brown one I have has a black fire button that matches the stick. The Atari 2600 ones are black with a red fire button, matching the color scheme of the original 2600 sticks.

http://www.robohara.com/pix/blog/kraft2.jpg

[k8track]

My favorites in order were probably the Kraft, the Epyx 500j, and the Slik Stik, followed by Atari sticks, followed by everything else.
Big Kudos to Rob for mentioning what is probably my favorite controller, the Epyx 500XJ. I got my first one in 1988 when I bought my first Commodore 64 lot--the joystick came with it. Love at first sight. I've gotten a couple since then to replace that first one. The 500XJ is also available for NES, with the necessary extra buttons, naturally. Most significantly, however, is the really obscure Sega Master System version (it has two fire buttons and a metallic silver rapid fire switch on the top part). For me, the SMS 500XJ is THE most useful controller--for the Atari 5200! If you've got the Redemption Sega Genesis adaptor and the WICO keypad, then it's the ultimate. (I don't like the 8-bit era control pads.) Of course, only a handful of 5200 games use the second fire button anyway, but it's nice to have it when you need it.

I've never used a Kraft joystick, but I know many people really like it. My other favorite controllers are the Super Action Controller for Colecovision and the pistol grip joystick/paddle/trigger controller for the Bally Astrocade.

One thing I would love to know definitively is if the Sup'r Stick by D-Zyne (I think that's right) ever actually existed. I remember seeing ads for it in Electronic Games as a kid and thinking that it looked like the ultimate. I would love to know if it's just a piece of vaporware or if any were actually manufactured.

[Ryaan1234]

I remember seeing one of those beige Kraft joysticks at a garage sale a year or two ago. I thought it was a pc joystick. The reason I remember this is because I thought the company "Kraft" was unusual. Every time I see one of those joysticks I think of Kraft cheese and other cheese products made by the Kraft (cheese) company.

[Sothy]

I was hoping to see a controller carved from cheese....

[boatofcar]

Great thread.

I've always hated the normal VCS joysticks--they're way too stiff for my liking. My favorite stick (which I'm sure is just because it was the one I grew up with) is the GemStik.

http://i6.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/b7/80/1bb6_1.JPG

There's nothing really special about it; it's just a lot more flexible than a 2600 stick while keeping the same form factor. I still have the original one too--I plug it in to my A800 emulator with the Stelladaptor.

[Carey85]

I use an Epyx 500XJ stick myself, been using it for 2600/C64 gaming for the past 15 or so years. I like the smooth form factor and the function of the joystick, the Slik Stik would be a close second choice...

[scooterb23]

I never cared for the Kraft sticks that I used. I always felt the sticks were too flimsy.

Like others in this thread...this was my favorite stick...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v643/scooterb23/epyx-500xj-joystick.jpg

I recently got one at DP's store, and it 100% rekindled my love of my C64.

This thread is quickly becoming the C64 controller porn thread.

[Gapporin]

I, too, think that the stock Atari joysticks are too stiff for my liking. Back when I bought my first Atari 2600, the previous owner had stockpiled dozens of different sets of 3rd-party joysticks. Some I gave away, some I sold off, but these babies I kept:

http://svi.s31.pl/quickshot/qs101.jpg

The SpectraVideo QuickShot I. The first time I used these, I knew they were keepers. Just moving the joystick around is so smooth and fluid -- plus, the buttons are better and easier to push than the regular Atari ones (note the additional button on the side for those who dislike being on top). They're now my favorite weapon of choice.

Of course, barring that, I just use regular Master System pads. :P Of course, now I have the Master System Control Stick...I wonder how that would fare...

[Flack]

When I got my Street Fighter II cabinet back in, oh, 1994 or so, a couple of the microswitches were bad. I didn't know crap about working on games back then, but my buddy knew what was up. A half hour later he showed up with one of his old 500XJ sticks. We disassembled it, pulled the microswitches out of it, and used it in my cabinet.

[boatofcar]

The SpectraVideo QuickShot I.

I had one of those too. They were ok, but I always felt I was going to snap the handle off during bouts of Track & Field :)

Did anyone ever make a combo joystick/paddle controller?

[Gapporin]

Did anyone ever make a combo joystick/paddle controller?

Actually, yes, in the stash that I mentioned in my last post, there were a couple controllers that belonged to a Sears Video Arcade that were dual joystick/paddle. I'm sure there were others as well, but that's what first comes to mind.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I never cared for the Kraft sticks that I used. I always felt the sticks were too flimsy.

Like others in this thread...this was my favorite stick...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v643/scooterb23/epyx-500xj-joystick.jpg

I recently got one at DP's store, and it 100% rekindled my love of my C64.

This thread is quickly becoming the C64 controller porn thread.

Also my favorite.

Ergonomic and GREAT action on the joystick and button...especially on a 2600 and Commodore 64.

[Flack]

The SpectraVideo QuickShot I. The first time I used these, I knew they were keepers. Just moving the joystick around is so smooth and fluid -- plus, the buttons are better and easier to push than the regular Atari ones (note the additional button on the side for those who dislike being on top). They're now my favorite weapon of choice.

Ugh! If you like those, remind me the next time we're all going to get together and I will give you half a dozen of them. My friend had this one (complete with the suction cups on the bottom) and forced me to use it whenever I went to his house. Blech!

A few years ago I picked up a custom psx-style controller for the C64 from I believe 8bitonline, which has since changed hands and now apparently closed its doors. The PlayStation controller is one of my favorite console controllers and I really thought I'd enjoy using one of these on the 64 and 2600 as well. But like I mentioned in my original post, it never felt authentic and I just couldn't get used to it. Same thing goes for Genesis controllers on those systems.

[Flack]

PS: I discovered that the actual name of the company is Kraft Systems, Inc. They are different from the Mac and Cheese company.

[InsaneDavid]

...The SpectraVideo QuickShot I...

Always been my favorite Atari 2600 stick as well, since back in the day. In fact I hate using the standard joysticks or pretty much anything else for joystick games. They're nice and responsive with a short throw distance, you can even move the base while holding the stick, which is usually how I use them - a combination of both movements.

I have a pair of the Coleco Gemini Dual Command controllers with the stick up top and paddle at the bottom (along with the hard to find Y adapter so two player paddle support works). While the controllers make a decent joystick and a decent paddle they're nowhere as good as other options and the stock Atari paddles. Half and half does not make whole in this case.

[Cornelius]

I just happen to have these out from the other night. Combo paddle/joysticks from the Sears Video Arcade II. I don't think they are particularly good at either. I never liked holding a stick like this (e.g. Colecovision), and the size of the wheel just doesn't feel right as a paddle. I don't know if these are on the fritz, or if they just never worked well as paddles, but as a paddle they are very jumpy and jittery. They still work fine as sticks if you are okay with the style, and not as stiff as the regular atari stick.

http://home.comcast.net/~evanwink/images/games/sears combo stick.jpg

Incidentally, I found that they only seem to work right as paddles (well, at all, since they seem to be partially broken) on the sears unit. The 4-switch and Jr. don't seem to know what to do with more than one hooked up.

[Chuplayer]

I, too, think that the stock Atari joysticks are too stiff for my liking. Back when I bought my first Atari 2600, the previous owner had stockpiled dozens of different sets of 3rd-party joysticks. Some I gave away, some I sold off, but these babies I kept:

http://svi.s31.pl/quickshot/qs101.jpg

The SpectraVideo QuickShot I. The first time I used these, I knew they were keepers. Just moving the joystick around is so smooth and fluid -- plus, the buttons are better and easier to push than the regular Atari ones (note the additional button on the side for those who dislike being on top). They're now my favorite weapon of choice.

Of course, barring that, I just use regular Master System pads. :P Of course, now I have the Master System Control Stick...I wonder how that would fare...

HOLY SHIT!!! I forgot I had one of those! I should get another and make a custom Bangai-O joystick setup for my Dreamcast. It might work for Virtual On, too. I don't know how many buttons Virtual On uses, though.

[aus_e]

I was a joystick junkie back for the c64 and amiga. of course, took them apart as soon as I could the Suncom Tac-20 and SlikStick were super tough. They had a metal ball with a wire connected to the base of the stick, it swiveled to touch one of four plates for each direction. virtually indestructable. The nice little Epyx was great- good quality microswitches, but used to get sore trigger fingers from the hard to press button undeneath. Quickshots were crap. used to sell them heaps in the shop, and get them back as returns all the time...And Tandy and others used to sell rebadged Quickshots.
One of my all time favs was the Atari 7800 console. The consoles didnt sell over hear, but the joysticks were great.

[MachineGex]

...
One thing I would love to know definitively is if the Sup'r Stick by D-Zyne (I think that's right) ever actually existed. I remember seeing ads for it in Electronic Games as a kid and thinking that it looked like the ultimate. I would love to know if it's just a piece of vaporware or if any were actually manufactured.

Sorry to bump this old topic but I just bought a "D-Zyne Supr Stick" and can not find anything about them. I am about to test it, and DAMN, it feels like one helluva stick. It's heavy and feels like an arcade quality stick. Even the button is arcade quality.

Can anyone shed some light on this stick or the company? It is one of the coolest feeling controllers I have owned and would love to hear about the back ground on it.

[Steve W]

I can't even imagine what it looks like. Can you take a picture?

I've got a Kraft joystick like the ones Flack has. I think I might even have two, one is black and one's brown. I know they also made computer joysticks too, I've got a two button analog joystick for the Apple ][ if I remember correctly. I might have seen a white one made for the Tandy CoCo also, but I can't confirm that since it was years ago that I found it in a thrift but didn't buy it. I've never used any of my Kraft joysticks for more than a few minutes, since they always felt a little flimsy. The Atari CX-40 standard joystick is the only one for me, it was my first and will always be my favorite.

[MachineGex]

I will take a pic tomorrow. It looks like the one on this page ..... about half way down the page:
http://www.atarimagazines.com/cva/v1n1/joysticks.php
Mine has a different label, it is not black like the picture. Mine has a silver foil label, but it is the same besides that. I am excited to hear more about this company/controller. I just played with it and pacman plays perfect with it. The button is almost too touchy. It is a great joystick and I cant wait to play some Tapper with it.

[Leo_A]

I'm surprised to see good things about the SpectraVideo QuickShot. Radio Shack eventually started producing these under their Archer brand and I remember going through several brand new ones in the early 90's after just a few months of use on each of them (Radio Shack stocked them at least until the mid 90's).

The buttons had the worst longevity I've ever seen and ruined what was otherwise a nice design that worked well.

[MachineGex]

Here is a picture of the DZyne joystick. As you can see, it is pretty heavy duty. The button is an arcade quality one and the joystick is also heavy duty. Overall, it is an excellent controller. I just picked up the Kraft Joystick, I will see which one controls better. The DZyne is gonna be hard to beat!

[Lady Jaye]

I had one of those too. They were ok, but I always felt I was going to snap the handle off during bouts of Track & Field :)

Did anyone ever make a combo joystick/paddle controller?

The Coleco Gemini's controller is what you want. Since it's from an Atari 2600 clone, it'll work with both the 2600 and the C64. If you're interested, we have 5 of those here that we're looking to sell... ;)

http://images.wikia.com/egamia/images/c/c1/Colecogeminicontroller.jpg

[Steve W]

http://www.atarimagazines.com/cva/v1n1/joysticks.php

Yikes, we've come a long way in the ergonomics department since those early days. It looks like a lot of them would have been agony-inducing to hold in the hand. A lot of those joysticks look like they were built using Radio Shack project boxes or something.

[MachineGex]

I just picked up a new Joystick today and was wondering if someone can tell me about it. Since this topic has become bigger than the Kraft joysticks, I thought I would ask here instead of making another topic.

The Joystick is called "UFO Joystick II". It appears to be a multi-system stick because the end of the cord looks like it has a plug that goes to different systems, although it did not come with any system plugs. It has some sort of universal 16 pin adapter on it that plugs into another cord. Like I said, it didnt come with any end cords. It has switches for "fire" "speed" and "mode". It also has two slide switches for fine tuning the joystick(vertical and horizontal).

It is about the size of a brick and the casing is made out of black metal. It has two arcade buttons and an arcade joystick that is on the right side instead of the left. It seems very well made and I would love to find the end cords so I can try it out.

Any help or ideas? I will post pics as soon as the camera charges allitle.
Thanks!