Two Genesis a/v questions...

[Greg2600]

Many moons ago, I bought a Sega Genesis (model 1), but a year and a half later, I bought a Super Nintendo. A few years later, I sold the Genesis to a friend and gave most of my extra controllers and games to my younger cousin. Eventually he did the same, and so on. Well, I've got the Genesis bug again, and I want to reacquire one. After much research on sega-16.com and via emulation, I've confirmed my 1994 stance that I don't have much use of a SegaCD or 32X. Therefore, my choices are between the Model 1 and 2 genesis. From what I can read, the only prime difference was the method of stereo ouput (aside from the size of the console).

Hence my questions....
1. Given the Genesis sound is IMO primative by today's standards, is there really a noticeable difference between stereo and mono sound? (Note I am not plugged into a stereo, just a stereo TV) For nostalgia's sake I am leaning towards G1.

2. Was there ever produced a multi-system A/V cable which incorporated the Genesis 9-pin? I use a 4-port composite switch box, and I'd like to combine the Genesis with maybe the SNES/N64 one. I cannot find any sign of such a cable, only RF adapters and Gen-only.

Thanks!

[JLukas]

The Genesis 1 has stereo out, but only through the headphone jack. You can buy a cheap adapter for a couple bucks that has the headphone style plug on one end and RCA jacks on the other so you can hook it up to the TV.

Does your TV have an s-video input? If so, I highly recommend one of the board members mod your system with an s-video jack. They can also add stereo jacks and region switches as well. S-video is a HUGE improvement on the Genesis.

[Greg2600]

We have S-Video TV's, but the one I have in my room is not. Aside from the video, though, I'm asking, given the Genesis sound is somewhere between the NES and SNES, is stereo sound a must have? As a kid I played the thing via RF, after all. I would think the S-Video mod is much more of a difference than stereo audio.

[Rob2600]

Given the Genesis sound is IMO primative by today's standards, is there really a noticeable difference between stereo and mono sound? (Note I am not plugged into a stereo, just a stereo TV) For nostalgia's sake I am leaning towards G1.

Good question. I've only ever played a G1 Genesis via an RF switch back in the late 1980s and early 1990s. I received an SNES for Christmas in 1991, which I hooked up to my stereo and it sounded great. I rarely went back to the Genesis after that.

I imagine playing Genesis games in stereo would be cool through a decent sound system, but it probably wouldn't make much of a difference coming through small, junky TV speakers, so go with whatever is easier and cheaper.


Was there ever produced a multi-system A/V cable which incorporated the Genesis 9-pin? I use a 4-port composite switch box, and I'd like to combine the Genesis with maybe the SNES/N64 one.

I've never seen an all-in-one Genesis/SNES AV cable. If you find one, let us know!

[Sweater Fish Deluxe]

Get a model 1 Genesis. I doubt you'd notice much of any difference between stereo and mono through your TV speakers. If you ever wanted stereo, though, you could get from the headphone jack. Also, if you ever do decide to get a Sega CD or 32X (32X: eh...but Sega CD: cool!), they both look much better with the original Genesis. Also the Power Base Converter.

The only thing is, in my experience the later Geneses have better video encoders and therefore nicer looking composite output. Try to look for a later revision of the model 1, if you can find it. One that doesn't have the ext. port on the back.


...word is bondage...

[InsaneDavid]

Just get a JVC X'Eye, end of story. About the audio though, yes, most Genesis cartridges sound odd in stereo since they don't take proper advantage of two stereo channels. You'll find that many games play half the music notes through one speaker and half through the other, moving back and forth. Mod wise between the two there's nothing you can do to one that you can't do to the other. Both can be tapped for true stereo sound through composite jacks.

[Chuplayer]

1. Given the Genesis sound is IMO primative by today's standards, is there really a noticeable difference between stereo and mono sound? (Note I am not plugged into a stereo, just a stereo TV) For nostalgia's sake I am leaning towards G1.

I got stereo cables for my model 2 in the summer of 1999 after playing with RF mono for years. I don't know about all games, but I still remember the first time I used the stereo cables. I was playing Sonic 3 and Knuckles, and it sounded bloody amazing in stereo. It was a world of difference.

[Greg2600]

Get a model 1 Genesis. I doubt you'd notice much of any difference between stereo and mono through your TV speakers. If you ever wanted stereo, though, you could get from the headphone jack. Also, if you ever do decide to get a Sega CD or 32X (32X: eh...but Sega CD: cool!), they both look much better with the original Genesis. Also the Power Base Converter.

The only thing is, in my experience the later Geneses have better video encoders and therefore nicer looking composite output. Try to look for a later revision of the model 1, if you can find it. One that doesn't have the ext. port on the back.


...word is bondage...

Is that the one that came with Sonic 1 (or Sonic 2) following Sega adding the additional license check when the game starts? I know those from Sonic/91 on did not say High Def Graphics on the top of the console. On the other hand, according to Sega-16, the ones with the license screen are rumored to have worse audio. LOL. The video quality between S-Video and Composite doesn't make a big diff for me, I'm more about no cable clutter.

Thanks.

[Chuplayer]

Is that the one that came with Sonic 1 (or Sonic 2) following Sega adding the additional license check when the game starts? I know those from Sonic/91 on did not say High Def Graphics on the top of the console. On the other hand, according to Sega-16, the ones with the license screen are rumored to have worse audio. LOL. The video quality between S-Video and Composite doesn't make a big diff for me, I'm more about no cable clutter.

Thanks.

If you want no cable clutter and stereo at the same time, then you'll definitely want to go with the model 2. You're at the very least going to have an ugly cable coming out of the top of your system if you want stereo with a model 1.

[Greg2600]

Just get a JVC X'Eye, end of story.
I'm all about the originals. The only exception was my SNES, which I replaced with a later version (not SNES2) because it turned yellow. :( Also not a fan of SegaCD [I duck for cover].


If you want no cable clutter and stereo at the same time, then you'll definitely want to go with the model 2. You're at the very least going to have an ugly cable coming out of the top of your system if you want stereo with a model 1.

I wouldn't bother with Stereo with the Model 1 headphone jack, as I pondered and many have confirmed, many of the games didn't take true advantage of stereo. I've done a lot of testing with Gens32 emu, and can't really hear a difference.

Thanks guys.

[InsaneDavid]

You're at the very least going to have an ugly cable coming out of the top of your system if you want stereo with a model 1.

No, you just put a set of stereo RCA jacks on the side.

[Chuplayer]

No, you just put a set of stereo RCA jacks on the side.

But if you don't want to make a big project of it, you get the model 2 which is plentiful in the world even without Gamestop carrying them these days.

[InsaneDavid]

But if you don't want to make a big project of it, you get the model 2 which is plentiful in the world even without Gamestop carrying them these days.

Which still needs to be modded to support standard composite RCA jacks without use of the Genesis 2 proprietary cable.

[Chuplayer]

Which still needs to be modded to support standard composite RCA jacks without use of the Genesis 2 proprietary cable.

So you get one of those cables, and you're in business.

[CosmicMonkey]

Which model of Megadrive outputs the best/strongest RGB signal then?

[Greg2600]

So you get one of those cables, and you're in business.

David was alluding to my not wanting to use 10 sets of cables for all my stuff.

[Chuplayer]

David was alluding to my not wanting to use 10 sets of cables for all my stuff.

So you want to swap out systems and use the same cables between all of them? Then, yeah, model 1 or model 2 won't make a difference if you need to put in your own jacks anyway.

[InsaneDavid]

David was alluding to my not wanting to use 10 sets of cables for all my stuff.

Correct, it's much nicer to use standard cables that can be used for rotating different systems without having to get back to your switching boxes or behind your setup.

[Thrillo]

Oh yes, stereo sound does make a difference, but only in some games. For example, the Sonics were made with stereo in mind and they sound much richer through stereo. For other games it doesn't really matter, but those games usually have half-assed music anyway.
Also, it's been my experience that the earlier the Genesis, the better built it is, and the better features it has.
My oldest Genny 1 has a better build compared to newer models, has no nagging boot screen which keeps it from playing certain games, has clean sound, has the serial port on the back (useless in practice but looks cool) and has beautiful composite video output. The headphone port comes in handy with my Sega CD because by varying the headphone volume, the FM audio level coming out of the Genny is modified without affecting the Sega CD audio. This pretty much means that I can adjust the volume of sound effects without changing the music volume in Sega CD games.
My newer Genny 1 is made of a cheaper looking plastic, has that damned boot screen, has clean sound, lacks the serial port, and has beautiful composite video. This model is pretty common and gets the job done.
My PAL Genny...err...Megadrive 2 is made of cheap plastic, has the pesky boot screen, nasty overdriven sound, and composite video so bad that some of my RF systems look better. This report is from playing it on a Sony Trinitron PAL TV in PAL land; it wasn't the TV as my NTSC Nomad looked perfect on that same TV!

If I were you I would go with a Genny 1, specifically one that has "16 Bit Graphics" written by the cartridge port if you want top-notch quality. IIRC, only my oldest Genny 1 has that that text on top (I can't check now), so the presence of that text can be treated like a seal of quality for Genesis hardware. Combine that with a 32X and Sega CD 1 and you'll have the best and most practical Genny hardware available. While my X'Eye is quite nice, it requires the 32X to be removed when I want to swap CDs, and what can I do when it's drive wears out? My Genny/32x/Sega CD combo has easily replaceable parts, so I won't feel too bad when something breaks on it. I came close to buying a CDX in Tokyo but decided against it as it's just too rare and valuable to play; it's basically a novelty.

[Rob2600]

If I were you I would go with a Genny 1 ... Combine that with a 32X and Sega CD 1 and you'll have the best and most practical Genny hardware available. ... My Genny/32x/Sega CD combo has easily replaceable parts, so I won't feel too bad when something breaks on it.

Read Greg2600's posts again. He doesn't want a Sega CD or a 32X ever.

[Greg2600]

Thrillo, yes the first Genesis/MD which says High Definitive Graphics is model 1601. Model 1602 looks the same, sans that lettering and the serial port. It came in 91 with Sonic and later Sonic 2, and had the license screen. The model 2 is 1631, and so on. There are a couple 32X games I would like, but honestly their Genesis versions are fine with me (Space Harrier, Afterburner, Mortal Kombat II, etc.). As for the Sonic games, I tested them on Gens32 with and without stereo on my PC, and I really didn't hear a big difference. Most of the sound on those games is the music, which on the Genesis is nothing more than 16-bit MIDI (although I love Genesis game music - favorite is NHL93). Perhaps the sound effects are stereo, but I can live without that. I appreciate all the opinions though.

[InsaneDavid]

While my X'Eye is quite nice, it requires the 32X to be removed when I want to swap CDs, and what can I do when it's drive wears out?

Repair it.


My Genny/32x/Sega CD combo has easily replaceable parts, so I won't feel too bad when something breaks on it.

Because you can just toss the bad system out and replace it? If you're talking about repair parts and service at the component level the JVC X'Eye is far easier to work on than either model of the stand alone Sega CD. As for the Genesis side it's based upon the Model 2 Genesis for the most part. The CD drive is faster as well. Concerning the CD-X, now there's the most pain in the ass system to repair of the 16 bit Sega generation.

[Rob2600]

While we're on the subject of AV cables...

InsaneDavid, you know more about the technical aspect of wiring than I do. I'm looking to buy an S-video cable for the Wii. I have two options:

#1. a cable that has three plugs (two audio RCA plugs and one S-video plug)

#2. a cable that has four plugs (two audio RCA plugs, one composite video RCA plug, and one S-video plug)

Is there a difference? Does it matter that for cable #2, the video signal is split into composite and S-video? Does that degrade the S-video signal quality at all?

[Greg2600]

While we're on the subject of AV cables...

InsaneDavid, you know more about the technical aspect of wiring than I do. I'm looking to buy an S-video cable for the Wii. I have two options:

#1. a cable that has three plugs (two audio RCA plugs and one S-video plug)

#2. a cable that has four plugs (two audio RCA plugs, one composite video RCA plug, and one S-video plug)

Is there a difference? Does it matter that for cable #2, the video signal is split into composite and S-video? Does that degrade the S-video signal quality at all?

My friend, I've been doing the same for television/dig. cable hookups recently. I think the extra wire is irrelevant, because if it isn't in use, you're not drawing any signal from it. It might be useful if you need to hookup to a TV which doesn't have S-Video. Also, I wouldn't buy those no-name brands off ebay. Probably stick with a Monster or similar, although those are more expensive. What's up with Nintendo, they don't provide video cables anymore with their systems?

[Sweater Fish Deluxe]

The video signal isn't actually split. At least not in the cable itself. It's split in the system--at the video encoder chip--and the AV port on the back of the system has separate composite and s-video pins.

The second cable just delivers both video signals, while the first ignores the composite. It should make no difference to quality.

I don't think actually splitting the signal in the cable would be a problem either, though, to be honest.


...word is bondage...

[Rob2600]

What's up with Nintendo, they don't provide video cables anymore with their systems?

Yes, the Wii comes with an AV cable, but it's composite video. My TV has an S-video input, so I want to upgrade to an S-video cable.

My TV has one S-video jack, so I connected a five-input S-video switch box to it. Right now, I have my digital cable box, DVD player, and SNES/N64 connected to the switch box all via S-video. The picture quality is great. I bought a GameStop brand Wii S-video cable last night, but the plugs don't fit into my switch box because there's a ton of unnecessary hollow plastic around them. Monster cables fit into my switch box and those are pretty fat, but the plugs on the GameStop one are even fatter. Why? What's the point of having plugs that fat?


I think the extra wire is irrelevant, because if it isn't in use, you're not drawing any signal from it.


The video signal isn't actually split. At least not in the cable itself. It's split in the system--at the video encoder chip--and the AV port on the back of the system has separate composite and s-video pins.

The second cable just delivers both video signals, while the first ignores the composite. It should make no difference to quality.

Thanks for the info! I'm returning the GameStop S-video cable tonight and will buy one with normal-sized plugs from Best Buy instead.

[InsaneDavid]

While we're on the subject of AV cables...

InsaneDavid, you know more about the technical aspect of wiring than I do. I'm looking to buy an S-video cable for the Wii. I have two options:

#1. a cable that has three plugs (two audio RCA plugs and one S-video plug)

#2. a cable that has four plugs (two audio RCA plugs, one composite video RCA plug, and one S-video plug)

Is there a difference? Does it matter that for cable #2, the video signal is split into composite and S-video? Does that degrade the S-video signal quality at all?

Replied to your PM.

[Rob2600]

Replied to your PM.

Thanks!

By the way, I just tried returning the GameStop brand Wii S-video cable at the same GameStop location I bought it (Broadway near W. 3rd St.) and the manager gave me a hassle...of course. As soon as I said I wanted to return something, he became very defensive and agitated. I had the complete packaging and the receipt, but he said GameStop doesn't give refunds for opened accessories. I pointed out to him that at the bottom of the receipt is written, "Opened accessories and all used items can be returned/exchanged within 7 days," at which point he started babbling about how opened accessories are considered used.

Instead of arguing with him, I left and got a refund at a different GameStop (14th St. near Broadway). The service at that location wasn't perfect either, but at least the manager wasn't a useless nutcase.

Greg, I apologize for going off-topic.

[Chuplayer]

My TV has one S-video jack, so I connected a five-input S-video switch box to it. Right now, I have my digital cable box, DVD player, and SNES/N64 connected to the switch box all via S-video. The picture quality is great. I bought a GameStop brand Wii S-video cable last night

Did Nintendo change the multi-out in the Wii? Because from the SNES to the GCN, Nintendo has used the same multi-out in all their consoles, and you can use any cable with any system. I know it's not the ideal solution to be swapping out consoles' cables, but at least you could get S-Video on your Wii in the short-term that way.

[Rob2600]

Did Nintendo change the multi-out in the Wii? Because from the SNES to the GCN, Nintendo has used the same multi-out in all their consoles, and you can use any cable with any system.

I was hoping Nintendo would continue to use the same output for that exact reason, but it changed it for the Wii. :(

I just bought a React Wii S-video cable from Best Buy for $20. It was a few dollars more than the GameStop one, but the plugs look like they'll fit into the jacks on my switch box.

[Greg2600]

Rob, is there ever a normal shopping experience for you in new york? Where did you find a 5 port switch, that's an odd number? Did it come with a remote? One reason the Monster cables might be bigger is to give you better grip when plugging/unplugging the wire in. That switch sounds a bit odd that the cables don't fit. While not definitive, I usually go with AV cables which are very thick and gold plated, because you have to assume the extra thickness is more insulation from interference. I just wish they made more than Audio cables which have angled connectors.

My goal is to fit several A/V wires into a 4-port switch. One dedicated to digital cable, one to Madcatz (xbox, PSX, N64/SNES) combined cable, one to a variety of units, and one semi-open for connecting my PC's TV Out or another VCR (doubt I'll need to do that anymore). That will allow me to install one of those RF connectors in the Antenna jack for the Atari (no more RF box). My TV is a Magnavox TV/VCR/DVD combo, which lovingly uses a remote control code no universal remote apparently is compatible with, so while watching TV, I have to use its 40 button remote to raise the volume. The "variety of units" would include composite video/mono audio from the NES, Genesis, etc. Then either I'll use two "RCA" cable splitters to allow me to keep the typical AV cable the NES uses and the proprietary Genesis AV hooked up constantly, or get a bigger selector box.

This one from Radio Shack is very handy. It has 5 ins, two outs, and can auto-sense the most recent unit to be powered on.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2049646&cp=2032057.2032187.2032188.2032200&parentPage=family

[Rob2600]

Rob, is there ever a normal shopping experience for you in new york?

Yes, I do have normal shopping experiences, but not at ghetto stores like GameStop.


Where did you find a 5 port switch, that's an odd number? Did it come with a remote?

It isn't auto-sensing and it doesn't use a remote controller. Switching is done manually, but I don't mind. I just get up from the couch and press one of the other buttons on the box.

It's made by InterAct and cost around $20. I bought it seven years ago when I worked at a video game store in NJ.


One reason the Monster cables might be bigger is to give you better grip when plugging/unplugging the wire in. That switch sounds a bit odd that the cables don't fit.

The jacks aren't flush with the back of the switch box. They're recessed a few millimeters, so if I buy a cable with huge, fat plugs, they won't fit into the switchbox's holes.

I use a Monster Cable S-video cable for my DVD player and even though the plugs are thicker than the ones on standard cables, it fits into my switch box just fine. That GameStop Wii S-video cable was an ugly monstrosity. It looked like something that came from a circus.


My goal is to fit several A/V wires into a 4-port switch. ... This one from Radio Shack is very handy. It has 5 ins, two outs, and can auto-sense the most recent unit to be powered on.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2049646&cp=2032057.2032187.2032188.2032200&parentPage=family

I looked at that one the other day. If you notice, the reviews for it are horrible. Then again, most of the people who gave it negative reviews were trying to use it for audio only. The problem for them is that the box auto-senses the input based on video signals, so it wouldn't auto-sense their various audio-only inputs and, according to them, there's no manual switching.