Legend of Zelda instruction manual question [Boomerang?]

[jb143]

I've been wondering about this for a long time(ever since first playing the game actually) and have never found an answer. I thought maybe someone here could shed some light on this.

In the instruction manual for the Legend of Zelda, I believe in the walk through section, they show a picture of the cave where you get your sword. But in the picture it looks like you get a choice between a sword and a boomberang. Does anyone know what's up with this?

[InsaneDavid]

It was either a mockup screen or from a prototype, I can't remember what the last word on it was.

[Blitzwing256]

it was from the original japanese comerical/cartoon that was made for it back when it was released.

[dlopez9069]

So why did they cut it out of the game? It would have been really cool you would have to make the boomerang do less damage of course so that it would be even with the swords short reach. I think it would have been great!

[jb143]

Does that prototype or a rom still exist? Why would they leave the screenshot in the manual? I remember as a kid trying all sorts of things to get to that screen thinking it was some secret.

[FantasiaWHT]

So why did they cut it out of the game? It would have been really cool you would have to make the boomerang do less damage of course so that it would be even with the swords short reach. I think it would have been great!

Wait, doesn't the boomerang only damage a small handful of enemies, few (if any?) of which actually drop any loot?

[Blitzwing256]

I've only come across one fds prototype of zelda and it went for WAY more money then I could aford, whether it had that scene or not I dunno, but we'll probably never know.

[rbudrick]

In that pic, some Japanese text is blurred or covered or something (can't remember). I've tried all sorts of Photoshop techniques to bring it out, or approximate the characters, but I suck at photoshop and failed. There is a previous thread on the topic of this cave, btw, but I'm too lazy to find it.

If someone else is daring, maybe they could figure out the blurred out text?

-Rob

[PingvinBlueJeans]

There is a previous thread on the topic of this cave, btw, but I'm too lazy to find it.

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=86099

[jb143]

It just seems like something that they would have caught. It would have been very easy to fix as well. Are there any manuals that were corected...maybe newer printings? My original and my collector copy both have this.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

It just seems like something that they would have caught. It would have been very easy to fix as well. Are there any manuals that were corected...maybe newer printings? My original and my collector copy both have this.

Caught?

In 1987?

In a manual that was likely hand-typeset by people that probaby never played the game much less had an encyclopedic knowledge of all it's secrets?

[PingvinBlueJeans]

It just seems like something that they would have caught. It would have been very easy to fix as well.
They could and should have caught the mentions of Pols Voice hating loud noises in the U.S. game and manual (U.S. NES lacks the Famicom microphone), but they didn't...and that was a much bigger error.

The screenshot is interesting, but I don't know why people make such a big deal out of it.


Are there any manuals that were corected...maybe newer printings? My original and my collector copy both have this.

No, the manuals from the (grey cart) reissue have the screenshot as well.

[kataboom]

The screenshot is interesting, but I don't know why people make such a big deal out of it.

i agree. it was never fixed just because it wasnt that big of a deal. nintendo isnt going head over heels to make every piece of literature (that was destined for the rubbish pile anyways) perfect with all a specific games' secrets. cmon.

jb143 might have OCD but the nintendo corp doesnt!

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

i agree. it was never fixed just because it wasnt that big of a deal. nintendo isnt going head over heels to make every piece of literature (that was destined for the rubbish pile anyways) perfect with all a specific games' secrets. cmon.

jb143 might have OCD but the nintendo corp doesnt!

And I've done some work in printing and publishing from "translated" (Japanese to English) documentation.

Nintendo, as I said, likely sourced those manuals (especially way back in 1987, the earliest gens of the NES) to printing companies that were totally detached from ANY knowledge of what would be "correct" anyway.

Personally, I kind of like that screen shot ... it's a nice bit of video game flub history.

[Blitzwing256]

They could and should have caught the mentions of Pols Voice hating loud noises in the U.S. game and manual (U.S. NES lacks the Famicom microphone), but they didn't...and that was a much bigger error.

The screenshot is interesting, but I don't know why people make such a big deal out of it.



No, the manuals from the (grey cart) reissue have the screenshot as well.

he still hates loud noises, if you plug the nes cart into a famicom with the microphone it will still kill him.

and for anyone who's lazy heres the link to the infomercial in question:
http://gameads.gamepressure.com/tv_game_commercial.asp?ID=3200

you'll note there are ALOT of differneces from the released version, different screen layouts, stores having differnt inventory/prices and link having the map to levels before you could possibly get them amoung other things.

makes me wish we were able to get a hold of that one proto years ago.

[jb143]

Personally, I kind of like that screen shot ... it's a nice bit of video game flub history.

I feel the same way. I certainly doesn't bother me. I just never heard an explanation as to why this was here. The Pols Voice thing makes more sense and is pretty well explaned. It just seems that whoever was doing the mini walkthough would have known. Or was that just blindly translated from japanese as well?

[Rob2600]

What's strange is that picture wasn't used in the Japanese instruction manual. This web site has scans of every page in the booklet:

http://zs.ffshrine.org/legend-of-zelda/japanese-instruction-manual-scans.php

Here is the specific photo:

http://zs.ffshrine.org/album/legend-of-zelda/japanese-instruction-manual-scans/z1-40-41.jpg

[rbudrick]

Wel, that pic and the pic in the video are different, with different text.

I don't know how to take a screen grab from that video. ANyone know how?

I'd like to examine the text and translate it.

-Rob

[jb143]

What's strange is that picture wasn't used in the Japanese instruction manual. This web site has scans of every page in the booklet:

http://zs.ffshrine.org/legend-of-zelda/japanese-instruction-manual-scans.php

Here is the specific photo:

http://zs.ffshrine.org/album/legend-of-zelda/japanese-instruction-manual-scans/z1-40-41.jpg
That is interesting. Expecially since all the others are exacty the same.


The screenshot is interesting, but I don't know why people make such a big deal out of it.

Only because it gives some insight into the Zelda that could have been.


Still no word on if a prototype rom exists?

[Rob2600]

Wel, that pic and the pic in the video are different, with different text.

I know. I just thought it was interesting that the Japanese instruction manual shows the correct shot, while the U.S. instruction manual shows a beta shot.


Only because it gives some insight into the Zelda that could have been.

Yes. I remember thinking that players who chose the boomerang wouldn't get very far. Not many enemies could be defeated with it. Maybe the designers were experimenting with balance at that point.

[jb143]

I remember thinking that players who chose the boomerang wouldn't get very far. Not many enemies could be defeated with it.

But maybe the boomerang used to be more powerfull so when they decreased it's strength they got rid of the choice as well.

But then again my brother, who is a self-proclaimed Legend of Zelda master, has beaten the game having never taken the sword.

[Rob2600]

I don't know how to take a screen grab from that video. ANyone know how?

I'd like to examine the text and translate it.

-Rob

The video is very small and compressed, but here is an enlarged screen shot:

http://www.paunchstevenson.com/zelda-boomerang-sword-1.jpg

Is it clear enough to translate?


By the way, here's a crystal clear abridged version of that video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5aErhrhqXs

Too bad it doesn't show the boomerang/sword screen.

[PingvinBlueJeans]

Only because it gives some insight into the Zelda that could have been.

Still no word on if a prototype rom exists?

Yes. I remember thinking that players who chose the boomerang wouldn't get very far. Not many enemies could be defeated with it. Maybe the designers were experimenting with balance at that point.
Early NES betas like that are near impossible to find. You'd have to ask Miyamoto himself, or we'll probably never know.

[rbudrick]

Is it clear enough to translate?

Maybe. Do you have the original small one too?

Some of the syllables are blurred by enlargement, where some others are made clearer. I know I could just shrink this one, but it may not be the same.

-Rob

EDIT: Well, I don't have much yet, but here's the symbols I can make out. All are in katakana.

Hi to ge (?)(?)(?) ge n so *
Su * no bu * wa to (?)

Not sure what those blotches are, so I just put asterisks there. The question marks are things I can't distinguish. Maybe other frames of the video would have less blurriness?

Hey, I've got an idea...anyone got a good screen grab of the name entry section for the FDS Zeruda no Densetsu? I'm at workand not able to obtain it right now. It would make a great comparison.

-Rob

[Rob2600]

Maybe. Do you have the original small one too?

Some of the syllables are blurred by enlargement, where some others are made clearer. I know I could just shrink this one, but it may not be the same.

-Rob

EDIT: Well, I don't have much yet, but here's the symbols I can make out. All are in katakana.

Hi to ge (?)(?)(?) ge n so *
Su * no bu * wa to (?)

Not sure what those blotches are, so I just put asterisks there. The question marks are things I can't distinguish. Maybe other frames of the video would have less blurriness?

-Rob

I captured different frames and they're almost equally blurry. Here's a photo at the original size:

http://www.paunchstevenson.com/zelda-boomerang-sword-2.jpg

[rbudrick]

Edited above post, btw.

Hey just how did you capture those grabs anyway?

-Rob

[Rob2600]

Hey, I've got an idea...anyone got a good screen grab of the name entry section for the FDS Zeruda no Densetsu? I'm at workand not able to obtain it right now. It would make a great comparison.

These should help:

http://www.paunchstevenson.com/zelda-japan-select.jpg

http://www.paunchstevenson.com/zelda-japan-intro-item-list.jpg

http://www.paunchstevenson.com/zelda-japan-shop.jpg

http://www.paunchstevenson.com/zelda-japan-sword.jpg

http://www.paunchstevenson.com/zelda-boomerang-sword-1.jpg

http://www.paunchstevenson.com/zelda-boomerang-sword-2.jpg



Edited above post, btw.

Hey just how did you capture those grabs anyway?

In Mac OS X, I use the built-in Grab utility (Applications-Utilities-Grab).

In Windows XP, I press the "Print Screen" key on the keyboard and then paste the image into an image editing program (in my case, Photoshop).

[rbudrick]

Well, the print screen function blacks out that part of the picture when a video is on screen. Stupid WIndows.

Those screens do help, but isn't there a screen that allows you to type your name that lists all the symbols on one page? I seem to remember the name input screen working that way.

-Rob

[Rob2600]

Those screens do help, but isn't there a screen that allows you to type your name that lists all the symbols on one page? I seem to remember the name input screen working that way.

Yes, but I can't find anything like that online and I don't have a Famicom Disk System.

[rbudrick]

Wow, I was way off on that first line. I see it matches one of the pics.

http://www.paunchstevenson.com/zelda-japan-sword.jpg

http://www.paunchstevenson.com/zelda-boomerang-sword-1.jpg

The correct first line is

hi to ri de ? ki ke n ja

second line somewhat corrected:
Shu no byu wa to (?)

I'm quite positive onthe first line, except that one character. The second line, I'm not positive, but it's gotta be close. Wish I knew wtf those other two symbols where.

-Rob

[PingvinBlueJeans]

I'm quite positive onthe first line, except that one character. The second line, I'm not positive, but it's gotta be close. Wish I knew wtf those other two symbols where.

Problem is, the first line in those pictures is the same, but the second one is different. Look closely.

[kainemaxwell]

These should help:

http://www.paunchstevenson.com/zelda-japan-select.jpg


Please tell me "Kill Mode" is the erase entry option.
:P

[rbudrick]

Problem is, the first line in those pictures is the same, but the second one is different. Look closely.


Umm, yeah, that's what I said, man. :)

-Rob

[InsaneDavid]

Those screens do help, but isn't there a screen that allows you to type your name that lists all the symbols on one page? I seem to remember the name input screen working that way.

Ask and you shall receive...

http://www.classicplastic.net/digitalpress/FDSZeldaText01.jpg

All this talk about not having a Famicom Disk System, most modern NES emulators will run FDS games as long as you have a FDS disksys.rom BIOS file. NEStopia is my emulator of choice. Hell, you can play FDS games on the Dreamcast with NESterDC v7.1.


Please tell me "Kill Mode" is the erase entry option.
:P

Yup, "Elimination Mode" on USA games was almost always "Kill Mode" on the Japanese original.

[Rob2600]

Ask and you shall receive...

Wow, thanks! Maybe now someone can put all of the pieces together and translate that boomerang/sword screenshot.

[rbudrick]

Thanks, InsaneD!

Ok, pretty sure about this now:

First line:
hi to ri de ha ki ke n ja

Second Line:
shu no byu u to ru

That shu could be sha, but I don't think much else. The byu could be bya, or something else, but I doubt it.

I'll try to check this against my dictionaries when I get home, since I'm not that great at Japanese.

-Rob

[Rob2600]

That's great. We could finally solve this twenty-year-old mystery!

[evil_genius]

Good job gumshoes.

[jb143]

This is comming along much better than I ever expected.

Now watch it say something like "It's dangerous to go alone. Take this. And this banana if you get hungry."

[rbudrick]

一人では危険じゃ

That's the first line if it weren't written in katakana.

Hitori de is "by or for oneself, alone." Kiken is "danger."

Tha'ts all I got out of the first line.

The second line is a pain in the ass. The only thing I'm pretty sure about is toru, "take."

I can't get my head around Japanese grammar, so I can't get anexact translation, but "It's dangerous to go alone, take one of these" is my guess, but I'm just going by the few words I actually got. I quit...anyone else wanna pick up from here?

-Rob

[TonyTheTiger]

I took a couple of semesters of Japanese in college. I have a dictionary and stuff around here somewhere. I'll see what I can do.

First of all, it looks like the first line is actually the same. "It's dangerous to go alone."

Second of all, translating this is actually a pain because of the katakana. It's not really standard to write it that way in Japanese but they did it a lot in Nintendo games.

独り出端危険ジャ
I think this is how the first line would be written normally. Kanji and all. From what I can tell it pretty much translates to "It's dangerous to go alone." We all knew that though.

The second line of the actual release (just the sword) I'm having some trouble with but "これ" (ko re) means "this" so I'm guessing it's pretty much "take this."

The one with the boomerang and the sword is really weird. The best I can come up with is this: 種の別府取る

But I don't really know what it means. The most I can come up with makes little sense. "Take this kind" or "Take this extension." It's the 別府 (byuu) that's messing me up. I'm making an inference here but it may be offering a choice. Something along the lines of "Take the kind of weapon you want."

[rbudrick]

BTW, folks (Windows users mostly, I think), unless you have the Japanese IME installed, a free download from MS, that Japanese text will just look like blocks.

That byu may be pyu, but I kind of doubt it. I'm just not 100% on the small letters in the second line. This would be so much easier to translate if I could just clearly see the letters.

-Rob

[rbudrick]

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a157/rbudrick/zeruda.jpg

I chopped all the little letters out and put them right next to the blurry ones. It makesit far easier than turning your head away or scrolling to compare them.

So, those two little signs are 2 of the 9 at the bottom of the pic.

The signs are a, i, u, e, o, ya, yu, yo, and the double consonant marker tsu. That first one is either a, u, o, ya, or tsu. The same goes for the second one. Every time I think I'm positive which one each is, I second guess it.

Dunno if this makes it any easier for anyone to try themselves.

-Rob

[Rob2600]

Thanks for continuing with this. In addition to posting the screenshots, I'd offer to help with the translation, but I don't read or speak Japanese.

[rbudrick]

I know some of you DPers speak Japanese, so I'm bumping this sumbitch. C'mon, we're *this* close!

-Rob

[ccovell]

The 2nd line is obviously "Suki no buki wo tore." :-D

スキノブキヲトレ

The artifacting in the JPEG obviously blurs & widens some of the parallel pixels in the text, but this seems to be the closest match to the text (and meaning). (An alternative would have the last character as "ru" ル, but "toru" just means "is taken" rather than "tore" which means "take it!".)

[Rob2600]

The 2nd line is obviously "Suki no buki wo tore." :-D

スキノブキヲトレ

The artifacting in the JPEG obviously blurs & widens some of the parallel pixels in the text, but this seems to be the closest match to the text (and meaning). (An alternative would have the last character as "ru" ル, but "toru" just means "is taken" rather than "tore" which means "take it!".)

Thanks, that's great! What does it mean in English? :)

[rbudrick]

Wow, I would have never guessed those were "ki" characters. I was pretty sure they were one of the little characters. Thanks, Chris!

I know buki is weapon, and wo after a word indicated the object of the action in the sentence.

Hmmm, I don't have my dictionaries with me, but looking around onlne while at work reveals that none of the definitions for suki make any sense besides "liking, fondness, love." Perhaps it is "Take the weapon you like," in proper English. But maybe "Take the weapon of liking," literally? Or to be really literal, "The weapon of liking, take it." Engrish, whatever. I have no idea if I'm right because my Japanese grammar blows.

-Rob

[jb143]

Hey, I'm glad to see that this got bumped back up. Hopefully now we'll finally be able to figure this out.

Of course we could just translate it the way they actually did back then..."It's dangerous to go alone. All my stuff are belong to you"

[ccovell]

Yes, it means "Take the weapon you like", or "Take your favourite weapon." A very short and simple sentence to decode.

[Rob2600]

Yes, it means "Take the weapon you like", or "Take your favourite weapon." A very short and simple sentence to decode.

Wow. After 21 years, the mystery is finally solved. Thanks!

I guess in the beta version, the boomerang was a powerful, viable weapon.

[jb143]

Shoot. None of my guesses were even close:roll:

We all pretty much assumed that's what it was saying but it's nice to finally have this figured out:D

btw...I just noticed that someone editied my title. I was actualy thinking of doing this myself to add something about needing people who read Japanese but couldn't figure out how to do it.

[TonyTheTiger]

I guess in the beta version, the boomerang was a powerful, viable weapon.

That's probably it. But maybe they just swapped the two weapons so depending on what you pick in this cave, later on when you're supposed to get the boomerang the sword may be there instead. If that's the case the boomerang may not necessarily need to be that much more powerful. I would suggest that they just gave you both weapons at the same time in this version but the text doesn't really support that.

[rbudrick]

Yes, it means "Take the weapon you like", or "Take your favourite weapon." A very short and simple sentence to decode.

Yes, I was going to say that I thought the sentence indicates a slant toward "take the weapon you like *most*," but 'favorite' is just as fitting.

So, being very literal, does the first line say "It's dangerous to go alone," or does it say something like "Going alone is dangerous?"

-Rob

[TonyTheTiger]

It's actually pretty literal in the actual translation. It's dangerous to go alone is probably the most literal way to translate it since the verb comes at the end in Japanese.

[ProgrammingAce]

http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/4526/270915351bc8e626c68ox1.jpg

[jb143]

That would certainly help with the not being alone part but then Zelda would be even closer to an RPG if a cat was following you arround everywhere.

[FantasiaWHT]

Dude, can you imagine what modern Zelda's would look like if Nintendo had looked at the two weapons and decided to focus the entire game around boomerangs instead of swords?

*Imagines the master boomerang embedded in a rock*

[Rob2600]

Dude, can you imagine what modern Zelda's would look like if Nintendo had looked at the two weapons and decided to focus the entire game around boomerangs instead of swords?

*Imagines the master boomerang embedded in a rock*

I was thinking the same thing. We'd have The Legend of Zelda: Four Boomerangs Adventures.

[CD-1]

It's also a possibility that the boomerang was only there in the debug version to help the programmers/testers gain easy access to it.

Here's another picture without text.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v700/zman900/Zelda1_Manual_Page41.png

[Rob2600]

Here's another picture without text.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v700/zman900/Zelda1_Manual_Page41.png

I believe the Japanese text was blacked out of that photo.

[rbudrick]

Hmmm...I remember it being blurry and slightly visible. I remember scanning and blowing it up to try to get a better look, even. Weird.

-Rob

[Sieur Leo]

EDIT: Sorry I made the other topic because I knew this isn't the right spot for it to be here.

[skaar]

http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/4526/270915351bc8e626c68ox1.jpg

I love that pic. I always have.

[rbudrick]

From a scan I took of the American book. You can see where they shoddily blacked out the text.

-Rob


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a157/rbudrick/zeldaswordboomerang.jpg

[CD-1]

From a scan I took of the American book. You can see where they shoddily blacked out the text.

-Rob

Life must've been tough without computers.

I guess with the text it would likely have been a normal game situation. Interesting.

[Eternal Champion]

I think William Gibson's next novel is right here.

[jb143]

I think William Gibson's next novel is right here.

Boomerang Punk?

[Eternal Champion]

Boomerang Punk?
This thread just reminded me of his book Pattern Recognition:

"...Hubertus Bigend offers Cayce a new contract: to uncover who is responsible for distributing a series of autonomous, artistic film clips via the internet. Cayce had been following the film clips and participating in an online discussion group theorizing on the clips’ meaning, setting, and other aspects."

[jb143]

Havn't read that one. I thought you meant a "what if" alternate past where Link could get the boomberang.

Also, wasn't Case the guys name in Neuromancer? Is there a reason he used 2 different names in different novels spelled differently?

[rbudrick]

Yeah, so these last 4 posts....What?:confused:

-Rob

[Eternal Champion]

Also, wasn't Case the guys name in Neuromancer? Is there a reason he used 2 different names in different novels spelled differently?
Oh, Cayce is a woman, and read into it what you will.

[zeldamario]

I always puzzled about this, I have an official Nintendo game guide, and according to it, neither of the two quests have such a cave. I think it was just a prototype picture for the game. Similarly, I viewed the back of the game box for Super Mario Bros 3, and there is a screenshot of a level that does not exist in the game. Additionally, the door that has a viewable lock on it is moved on the map (there is also a thing beneath it, so it is not accessible to move that way, if that makes sense), levels 3 and 4 are switched on the maps, and the picture game (flower-mushroom-star) and castle are switched as well. I think these are merely prototype photos, or maybe shots that never made it into the final productions. Still, they are mysteries and probably will never be revealed, if not they are just prototype photos.

[jb143]

Similarly, I viewed the back of the game box for Super Mario Bros 3, and there is a screenshot of a level that does not exist in the game.

Have you checked the Mario 3 "Lost Levels" to see if it's there?
http://www.themushroomkingdom.net/smb3_lost.shtml

[Nz17]

Pols Voice hating loud noises in the U.S. game and manual

But doesn't the flute/whistle, when played near the Pols Voices, still stun them? If so, that would mean the information is still relevant even if you can't use a microphone.

...

Wait, does that mean in the 3DS eShop re-release of Zelda I that you can use the microphone to attack the Pols Voices? I sure hope they programmed that into the emulator!