Is the Wii reaching "critical mass" on crap shovelware?

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

We're over a year in, and it appears that the licensing and development process for Wii software is one that is neither long nor complicated.

Like any good system (and I do believe that the Wii is a very capable if only moderately powerful system) any title that spends an extensive amount of time and love in the development cycle can turn out very good to fantastic (ie. Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime, Zak and Wiki ... even 3rd party titles like Medal of Honor Heroes 2) but on the other side of the proverbial coin -

titles that zip through the process and wind up on store shelves with nary a press "preview" usually REEK of being shovelware, and most gamers can spot them a mile away.

What worries me, is that lately, I'm faced with a growing mass of what appears to be, cheap, quickly-produced, in some cases kids-product-licensed, near-alien-looking titles appearing on the Wii shelves on a weekly basis and there seems to be NO signs of slowing.

For the past year or so, I've not been able to find a decent DS title amidst the near hundreds of bits of shovelware garbage (sifting through it all is just headache-inducing) and I'm growing more and more concerned that within a year, the Wii will be very much of the same.

Do you think that the Wii is close to reaching it's "critical mass" level in garbage software (ie. a crap level of, say, 4 crap to 1 decent title) ?

Yes? No? Maybe? Never? If not now, soon?

Discuss.

I think yes, and I'm sad.

[diskoboy]

I think the Wii will peak with Smash Bros. Brawl.

After that, it's nothing but downhill from there.

I'm a bit sick and tired of seeing Mario, Link, Kirby, and the rest of the Nintendo brigade plastered on practically every damn game Nintendo puts out. And since NiGHTS was the last Wii game I knew with 100% certainty that I was looking forward to, I have a strong feeling that NiGHTS will be my final purchase on the Wii.

[Vectorman0]

This is what happened to Atari, then Nintendo came in with their seal of quality. Over 20 years later, it seems Nintendo has completely forgotten the standards on which their gaming empire was founded upon. We won't see another crash, but I doubt this surge of junk will go by without any ill effects on the industry, especially if it keeps up at this rate.

[Bojay1997]

Eventually, it will not be lucrative anymore for people to keep selling crap games for the Wii or DS. Consumers aren't morons and while they might take a risk on a $10 or $20 game once, after they get burned and realize it would have been better to spend $40 or $50 on something they will actually play for several weeks, they will leave all those games to sit in the front row of Best Buy. Retailers will respond by ordering fewer and fewer of these games and eventually, the handful of companies specializing in this type of junk will shut down. It's already starting to happen with the DS as fewer and fewer games are carried by the big retailers and it will start to happen with the Wii as more high quality first and third party titles are released and take up the space previously taken up by the garbage.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Oh, don't get me wrong, Vectorman0 I don't think it'll crash the industry, or even the Wii ... in fact, it seems to have done the exact opposite for the DS.

I've had a DS since day one, and I haven't been able to find more than two or three releases per year that are worth my time and money, and yet I'm constantly faced with the rhetoric from the general gaming public that it's got "much more fun-er-ur" games than just about anything on the market.

All I see is hundreds and hundreds of Brain-Age-a-likes, 16 bit style RPG's, Catz, Dogz, Horsez, Hamsterz, Babiez (I'm not even joking there) and licensed DS versions of just about every PG rated film that comes down the pike.

SIDE NOTE - With all the recent "Imagine" series (which are pretty much VERY sexist representations of what "young girls" should "enjoy" doing - Imagine Cooking, Imagine Fashion, Imagine Babiez) I was thinking that they should just combine them all into one title. It would be much more fun ...
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b328/FrankieViturello/CookingBabies.jpg

The quantity sans quality-checking seems to sell with an exact OPPOSITE effect of the saturation of look-alike titles that crashed the market with Atari, Coleco etc. in the mid 80's ....

... so, no, I don't think it'll crash anything.

[Jorpho]

Oh, very droll, Mr. Frankie. I applaud.

Come to think of it, there's really not much left on the DS that I can think of that would be particularly desirable. But two or three releases a year is more than enough to keep me busy, considering the back catalogue I have yet to go through. (If only said back catalogue were a bit more accessible.)

[vegi-saurus]

The PS2 had a large library of crap too...no?

I won't be suprised that more crap will follow, but i'm confident there will be some good games to come as well.

[carlcarlson]

The PS2 had a large library of crap too...no?

Every system has a large library of crap, it's inevitable. The OP is just suggesting that the crap on the Wii outweighs the good to such a degree that it's going to kill the system (I think that's what he said).

I don't have a Wii, so I don't really know what games are out there for it. However, a week or two ago I got together with some of my old college friends, one one whom had gotten a Wii for Christmas. We decided to go to Family Video and rent a few games for it. Not only could we not find a FEW games that looked interesting, we couldn't find ANY. Not one. If I was to base my opinion purely on my one experience that I've had with the Wii, then I would say yes, the Wii has reached critical mass.

[MachineGex]

Here is why I think it hurt Atari much more than it will hurt Nintendo. Atari's market was flooded with crap and you never knew what you were getting. That really doesn't happen that much today(the not knowing part) because we have magazine reviews, internet reviews, message boards, fansites, rental places(online as well) etc. all flooded with good reviews usually before the game even comes out. Sure Nintendo has it's share of turds, but most people know which ones they are and not to grab them.

I can't remember the last time I bought a new game without reading at least one review. I am able to spend five minutes researching a game and pretty much know eactly what to expect and if I will like it. With Atari, I never knew what the game was going to end up like. It was really buying in the dark. Now, I don't have to gamble with my purchases. Every game I have paid full retail for, I have at least played it or read detailed reviews.

Bottom line: It isn't all that hard to figure out what games to avoid, so they aren't the land-mines they use to be 30 years ago.

[omnedon]

The NES had TONS of garbage. Tons! And it is considered a complete classic.


TONS.

And yes, the Wii is sporting a large amount of shovelware. Yuck.

[SaturnFan]

Yes. I see nothing worth owning in the near future, that's why my Wii is sold. After the Wii craziness is over and people are tired of Mario Galaxy/ect. , there be stockpiles of these at local gamestores for sale.

[Gapporin]

Oh, very droll, Mr. Frankie. I applaud.

Those baby muffins will haunt me in my dreams.

[joshnickerson]

And I suppose a vast majority of PS3 and 360 titles coming out are top notch AAA titles, right?

[CartCollector]

What's interesting is that EGM had an article on this a few months back.

But my take is that more shovelware = more rares. Look at the VCS, NES, and Playstation. Popular consoles with loads of crap games. Also, more shovelware = more opportunities for a sleeper hit from an unknown developer. Again, look at those consoles.

[heybtbm]

And I suppose a vast majority of PS3 and 360 titles coming out are top notch AAA titles, right?

Actually the vast majority of AAA titles coming out this year are PS3 and 360 games, now that you mention it.

Anyway, before the Nintendo Mafia arrives and turns this thread into Wii vs. everything else, let me say that it's obvious Wii shovelware is getting out of hand. The shear amount of $20-$30 budget games that I've never heard of is astounding. I can understand a few games slipping past the internet radar, but has anyone checked out the Walmart budget bins lately? Where did these games come from?

[Vinnysdad]

And I suppose a vast majority of PS3 and 360 titles coming out are top notch AAA titles, right?

Maybe not but you have to admit that both the 360 and PS3 have a larger selection of good games to choose from compared to the Wii.

[swlovinist]

There is still good games on the Wii. The Wii will have more good games on it. Yes there is alot of crap. So does any mainstream system. Smash Melee and Mario Kart are coming out soon. I know that there are some haters of the system, but give it another year. For people who only like mature hardcore shooters and RPGs, this system is not for you. A family system it is, and that is fine with me.

[diskoboy]

And I suppose a vast majority of PS3 and 360 titles coming out are top notch AAA titles, right?

Well.... there's DMC4, Burnout Paradise, Bionic Commando, Gran Turismo Prologue, Ninja Gaiden 2, Resident Evil 5, Lost Odyssey, GTA4, Rainbow 6: Vegas 2, Mercenaries 2, Alan Wake, Fable 2, and the plethora of PSN and XBLA games, just off the top of my head.

The Wii has Smash Bros. Brawl, Crazy Climber (which probably won't get a US release), and No More Heroes coming up, and That's about it.

[roushimsx]

Looks like the lax standards of the Gameboy/Gameboy Color/Gameboy Advance have finally bled over to Nintendo's home console. I used to think that the GB and GBA had the worst crap:quality ratios, but I'm sure the Wii will dominate that field in due time, too.

Bummer.

[otaku]

I plan to rent, maybe buy nights for the wii soon and sometime in february will pick up smash bros which hopefully will keep me and my wii busy for awhile beyond that though all I can think of is that no more heroes (???) game

My bro still wants zelda (never cared for zelda) so that will keep the little machine busy as well.

[mEgAsHoT]

I agree with you totally Frankie....the Wii has seemed to hit a critical mass of absolute crap coming out for it. I can also vouch that the DS has suffered from the same shovelware plague...here is a brief history of my most recent Nintendo DS purchases:

July 2007: Sonic Rush
April 2007: Pokemon Pearl
August 2005 (received as a Birthday present): Advance Wars: Dual Strike

As you can see, I didn't buy any DS game in 2006, mainly because there were hardly any good titles out there that was worth plunking down 35 dollars on. Sure, there are a bunch of really great games on the DS (like Final Fantasy III, Mario Kart DS, etc.) but the crap far outnumbers the good stuff.

As for the Wii, they are definitely suffering from this same problem. I don't have a Wii, but as a longtime Nintendo fan (I have every main console except the NES) I am both appalled and sad that Nintendo's Wii console has so much shovelware. All of that potential for the Wii is just getting shoved right down the toilet with games like Ninjabread Man, Nitro Bike, Kidz Sports, stupid mini game complations, and half-baked ports of games like Tony Hawk's Proving Ground and NFS Pro Street. It's like developers don't even care anymore about the innovation of the console...they mearly want to exploit the innovation and the sheer popularlity of the console to make a lot of money off of it. Except for Nintendo, of course, who wants to deliver a quality product to make people want to buy the system for the excellent games. But everyone else is just lazy. Trust me when I say this, sooner or later the Wii is going to be sitting on store shelves because no one is buying it due to the overflow of crappy games. Either that's going to happen or the crappy games will probably be crushed and buried in the desert somewhere out in Arizona, like ET for the Atari 2600. :P

[Dangerboy]

Truth be told, I wouldn't call it critical mass, but more like there is finally a true, honest to god seperation of "good" and "shit" on a system.

But here's the catch; where is the shovelware being returned?

Ebay searches pull up few and far between. I have yet to see a copy of Wii Winter Sports in the wild outside of my store, where it was a used one traded in.

Obviously, there IS a market for them, or no one would release them. Bold Games may be using ergonomically correct stainless steel, carbon fiber shovels to push all their releases to market, but I can tell you right now that we had pre-orders on 4 different "crap" games, all picked up and bought.

Hell, we had a Sonic Riders Wii get traded in before any of the Bold Games were.

If anything, the Wii's budget titles are a huge bonus for those consumers, regardless of what/who they are, refuse to spend $50-$60 on a game - and its working really well.

Personally, I'm looking forward to Furu Furu Park ($20) and Bomberman Land ($20 - 30) as well as my CSI, Smash Brothers, and other 'higher ranked' games.

You can have a world where your Zeldas and your Excitetrucks can co-exist next to your Kidz Sports and Anubis IIs. Everyone gets somehting.

In other words, Nintendo, whether intentionally or unintentionally, cornered *another* market that no one else was really trying to cater too.

More power to them.

[ProgrammingAce]

Actually, a shocking number of Wii games are being returned to the distributor to be destroyed...

[Teknik_SE-R]

All I see is hundreds and hundreds of Brain-Age-a-likes, 16 bit style RPG's, Catz, Dogz, Horsez, Hamsterz, Babiez (I'm not even joking there) and licensed DS versions of just about every PG rated film that comes down the pike.

SIDE NOTE - With all the recent "Imagine" series (which are pretty much VERY sexist representations of what "young girls" should "enjoy" doing - Imagine Cooking, Imagine Fashion, Imagine Babiez) I was thinking that they should just combine them all into one title. It would be much more fun ...
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b328/FrankieViturello/CookingBabies.jpg

The quantity sans quality-checking seems to sell with an exact OPPOSITE effect of the saturation of look-alike titles that crashed the market with Atari, Coleco etc. in the mid 80's ....

... so, no, I don't think it'll crash anything.


HA HA HA HA HA! OMGROFLMAO

I agree.

[Teknik_SE-R]

I check reviews before buying also. The thing about doing that is there is almost no chance of finding sleeper games, which I think are the gems of my collection. You end up with the same games that all your friends have.

AI don't think I'll ever learn my lesson either.I don't have enough money or time to waste searching for sleepers.My buddy bought Tron 2.0 on xbox (I never even knew it existed!) when it came out and I think it was a blast. My only complaint is that you can't do arena battles with AI. Its all online, and that's all but dissappeared after 4 or so years

[DigitalSpace]

Yes. I thought the Game Boy Color had the worst library of games for any Nintendo system, but the Wii is getting close to beating it.

Don't get me wrong, both the GBC and Wii have some exceptional games, but it seems like Nintendo has been too desperate for any third party support since the N64/GBC days, whether it be a watered down PS2 port with rushed and confusing Wiimote controls, or Imagine Ultimate Dogz Monster Trux Extreme.


Actually, a shocking number of Wii games are being returned to the distributor to be destroyed...
.___
{o,o}
|)__)
-"-"-
O RLY?

[MrSparkle]

The NES had TONS of garbage. Tons! And it is considered a complete classic.


TONS.

And yes, the Wii is sporting a large amount of shovelware. Yuck.

Yea i have to agree I'm a huge nes fan but 1 in every 10 games is worth going back and playing for more than 5 minutes at a time.

[Snapple]

Forgive me if this sounds like a less than intelligent response, but this is a total overreaction. It's like I said in the "Worst games of the Wii" thread. Every system has a ton of crap games. Every system, in fact, has more crap games than good games, without exception. Singling out the Wii is selective memory, and acting like you know it's downhill for the Wii from here on out is baseless. We haven't played any of these future games. If this topic was made a year ago, someone probably would've said something like "The Wii doesn't have anything as epic-looking as Lair coming out." And shocker of shockers, it turns out that we don't know what games are actually good until they come out. Lair was not, and a game with zero marketting behind it like Zack and Wiki ended up being a quality title.

As for Nintendo moving away from what the "Seal of Quality" stood for, that's a bunch of Grade A Crap. The Seal of Quality was NEVER kept off bad games just because they're bad. All the seal ever meant was that whoever made the game got a proper license from Nintendo. It has NOTHING TO DO WITH QUALITY. They put the seal on shitty games 20 years ago, and they put the seal on shitty games today. Nothing is different. Nothing.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I check reviews before buying also. The thing about doing that is there is almost no chance of finding sleeper games, which I think are the gems of my collection. You end up with the same games that all your friends have.

AI don't think I'll ever learn my lesson either.I don't have enough money or time to waste searching for sleepers.My buddy bought Tron 2.0 on xbox (I never even knew it existed!) when it came out and I think it was a blast. My only complaint is that you can't do arena battles with AI. Its all online, and that's all but dissappeared after 4 or so years

Alright!! I landed in somebody's quote section!!

I'll be sure not to take that graphic out of my Photobucket anytime soon.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Somebody, quick, call George Orwell! It's 1984 all over again! Oh noes! LOL

This is more indicative of the casual/core gamer divide than anything else. Simple as that.

Though annoying, don't expect shovelware to single-handedly dry up the blue oceans. As long as you watch your step in the Wii aisle you'll be fine, those turds radiate a huge field of stink that any seasoned gamer worth their salt could (and should) sniff out and avoid. We all had to do it with past systems. So this shouldn't be anything new to anyone here.

Shovelware isn't all bad, really! Imagine Master Chef looks interesting at least.

Franky: That image was both distasteful and disturbing. Kudos :D

[Nesmaster]

Well.... there's DMC4, Burnout Paradise, Bionic Commando, Gran Turismo Prologue, Ninja Gaiden 2, Resident Evil 5, Lost Odyssey, GTA4, Rainbow 6: Vegas 2, Mercenaries 2, Alan Wake, Fable 2...

...Just Cause 2, Mafia II, Saints Row 2, LittleBigPlanet, MGS4, Splinter Cell Conviction, Prototype, and possibly APB off the top of my head. Sure, it could be argued that most of them are sequels, but I'd rather play a good sequel than a shitty new IP. Plus, 2008 = YEAR OF THE SANDBOX GAMES, BABY!!!

[Willem]

I think crap comes with succes, the PS2 had/has that problem also. the amount of very good titles on the PS2 is what +-100? among the 1000+ titles. so that's only about 10%.

[Icarus Moonsight]

It's the fun and unique games with substance that truly define a game system. No one wastes their time to remember the crap so those titles have little effect in retrospect. A console is remembered, mostly, for the good games and more so for it's gems. Unless crap is all the system has to offer. The Wii definitely has gems. The bad will more less be forgotten, just as it has with each system. See a pattern?

What is worse IMO are the highly hyped/anticipated games that flop. Red Steel, Perfect Dark Zero and Lair. I'm sure there are others. At least shovelware is more honest, they don't pretend to be good then all the sudden go bad once you buy em.

The core gamers taste and the catering thereof has been locked down for a while now, but they really have no idea what casuals want other than the traditional offerings ie: Sports games and racers. The industry is still experimenting with the dabblers and casuals to find out just what works and what doesn't. The experimentation has led to actual good game releases. Take Puzzle Quest for an example. A prime example of casual tinkering that ended up rather good.

[Chainsaw_Charlie]

For the DS there's

Phoenix Wright series
Zelda Phantom Hourglass
Touch Detective series
Hotel Dusk
Advance wars series
Lunar Knights
FF3
FF 12 offshoot

Wii(me personally)
Dragon quest Swords
Bully Scholarship edition
Zelda TP
Red Steel

[DeputyMoniker]

SIDE NOTE - With all the recent "Imagine" series (which are pretty much VERY sexist representations of what "young girls" should "enjoy" doing - Imagine Cooking, Imagine Fashion, Imagine Babiez) I was thinking that they should just combine them all into one title. It would be much more fun ...

When was the last time you saw a four or five year old girl? Most of them do like cooking, dressing, and playing with babies. It isn't sexist. It's reality. If you think it's a bad thing then let's just call it an epidemic. XD

Anyway, as far as the crapware goes, I don't own a Wii. I have been wondering though, what are these "casual gamers," God I'm sick of that term, playing? It seems to me that they're playing Wii Sports. Like that's selling the system and after that, people don't need anything else in the lineup. What are they playing?

[Jorpho]

I seem to be reading about a lot of optimism for Wii Fit.


Touch Detective series
Lunar Knights
Red Steel

Rather questionable choices there.

[Zing]

I don't really see a problem, yet.

I own every "worth buying" (to me, of course) game for the PS1 and PS2. I have 25 PS1 games and 18 PS2 games. These two systems have been out for 12 and 7 years, respectively. Both work out to approximately 2 "buy" games per year. I currently see 5-6 "buy" games available for the Wii. That's about right on target.

[roushimsx]

AI don't think I'll ever learn my lesson either.I don't have enough money or time to waste searching for sleepers.My buddy bought Tron 2.0 on xbox (I never even knew it existed!) when it came out and I think it was a blast. My only complaint is that you can't do arena battles with AI. Its all online, and that's all but dissappeared after 4 or so years

Way too many of Monolith's games tank at retail while being critical successes. I was happy as hell for them when FEAR became such a hit, because they sure as hell deserved one after all of the great games they've done over the years (NOLF 1 and 2, AVP2, Tron 2.0, etc).

My beef with the Xbox port of Tron 2.0 is the screen tearing problem, which is really prominent in the game. It's like they didn't bother enabling triple buffering or vsync to keep the framerate high....but in all honesty, I'd rather deal with a 1 frame input lag or maybe a touch of slowdown. I HATE screen tearing :(

[FantasiaWHT]

Looks like the lax standards of the Gameboy/Gameboy Color/Gameboy Advance have finally bled over to Nintendo's home console. I used to think that the GB and GBA had the worst crap:quality ratios, but I'm sure the Wii will dominate that field in due time, too.

Bummer.

But remember how much more successful Nintendo's handhelds have been in the past decade than its consoles. Maybe that formula is what it takes to make the home console a success too, hmm?

If the shovelware makes money, and convinces more people to buy the system (the parents especially, I'm thinking) that will make more other developers put more effort into the highest-quality games for that system, since they'll be likely to sell more to the larger installed user base.

[Rob2600]

I think crap comes with succes

Yes, exactly. To me, the amount of garbage games on the Wii is a good thing. It proves it is a huge success.

That doesn't mean I'm going to buy them.

Besides, not all budget priced games are bad. Mercury Meltdown Revolution, Smarty Pants, Link's Crossbow Training, My Word Coach, Resident Evil 4, and Ghost Squad are examples of $20 to $30 games that are polished and fun.

It's also important to consider a game's target audience. To us, average titles like SpongeBob SquarePants, Arctic Tale, or Showtime Championship Boxing are terrible, but to children, parents, and "casual" gamers, they're fine, especially for only $20 or $30 each. Remember several years ago, the PlayStation crowd gobbled up worthless budget games on a weekly basis. I witnessed it first-hand while working at a video game store and it was frustrating to me. We here at DP can't relate to many budget games, but the reality is most people don't care and are willing to buy mediocre $20 games.

Also coming soon are House of the Dead 2 & 3 Return, Nirtobike, and Endless Ocean for only $30 each! I rarely have to pay $50 for a new home video game anymore.

[p_b]

Anyway, as far as the crapware goes, I don't own a Wii. I have been wondering though, what are these "casual gamers," God I'm sick of that term, playing? It seems to me that they're playing Wii Sports. Like that's selling the system and after that, people don't need anything else in the lineup. What are they playing?

If casual gamers on the DS are anything to go by (as I know a few of them but they don't have a Wii (yet)), they play stuff like Brain Training, New Super Mario Bros, even some Phoenix Wright and Hotel Dusk. And they listen to Dr Kawashima and return regularly :)
Apart from that, they play any crap they like, even if it makes me tear my hair out...

[PsychoCandy]

Most systems are loaded with horrible games. Atleast with the Wii we get a warning by looking at the price.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

When was the last time you saw a four or five year old girl? Most of them do like cooking, dressing, and playing with babies. It isn't sexist. It's reality. If you think it's a bad thing then let's just call it an epidemic. XD

Anyway, as far as the crapware goes, I don't own a Wii. I have been wondering though, what are these "casual gamers," God I'm sick of that term, playing? It seems to me that they're playing Wii Sports. Like that's selling the system and after that, people don't need anything else in the lineup. What are they playing?

A.) Does that girl on the cover of that game look like a 4 or 5 year old? (I didn't photoshop her in there, she was a part of the retail box art.)

B.) Young children generally "enjoy" whatever they're "exposed to", especially if it comes loudly, colorfully, and with repetition. Psychologically speaking, during the developmental stages, if you only expose them (girls AND boys) to stereotypical matriarchal tasks, they'll mimic it/make games of it on their own without a video game giving them a scoring system/rewarding them for it. This only perpetuates the problem. And the choice by Ubisoft and others to exploit these things by only placing young teen girls on the box art and/or in the game as playable characters in a market that already has severe problems with skewing the entire marketing heavily to one sex (teenage boys), I think, can be called "sexist".

In our modern society, while there are certainly more freedoms for young boys and gilrs to make choices regarding what they want to play with than there were, say 50 years ago (the age old dichotomy of girls play with dolls vs. boys play with toy guns comes to mind) it's instances like this that remind me that there are still people in very influential positions pulling the strings and "marketing" to a gender-specific audience in a sexist fashion.

Is this the end of the world? No, not really...if this sort of thing doesn't happen in the video game world, it still happens all over the world of "children's entertainment" (largely in the form of toys being highly gender-specific) ... I just don't like to see it spill over into the game world, where we have enough things to worry about.

Interestingly enough, take a look at a DS game like Cooking Mama. (Which originates in it's development in Japan - a country that has a whole different set of "problems" with sexism.) While it could have in it's translation/porting easily been a game that skewed to being marketed towards young girls, it wound up nicely gender neutral in it's marketing, and in turn wound up being a much bigger success than any of those titles will critically, and I assume financially. (Nice job Majesco! You did NJ proud.)

[Chadt74]

I have to agree with Rob2600. A lot of people I know who are interested in the Wii for small children so see some budget crap with a polar bear on the cover and want the game. To you and I this game is probably as enjoyable as watching my small intestine work its magic, but to a 4-8 yr old it might be fun.

On the "cheap" side I have really enjoyed Mercury Meltdown Revolution ($15) and Red Steel ($8).

[tom]

This is what happened to Atari, then Nintendo came in with their seal of quality. Over 20 years later, it seems Nintendo has completely forgotten the standards on which their gaming empire was founded upon. We won't see another crash, but I doubt this surge of junk will go by without any ill effects on the industry, especially if it keeps up at this rate.

The Nintendo seal of Quality had nothing to do with the quality of the game, it just ensured that the chosen game works with the hardware. How many quality games are there on NES, out of a library of over 2000?

[Rob2600]

it's instances like this that remind me that there are still people in very influential positions pulling the strings and "marketing" to a gender-specific audience in a sexist fashion.

I agree...but there are people in even more influential positions than marketing executives: parents. Parents are the ones with all of the money. They can chose to not buy sexist products and instead, teach their children about gender-equality.

As long as parents continue to support sexist products, companies will continue to make them.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I agree...but there are people in even more influential positions than marketing executives: parents. Parents are the ones with all of the money. They can chose to not buy sexist products and instead, teach their children about gender-equality.

As long as parents continue to support sexist products, companies will continue to make them.

True indeed.

[CartCollector]

So does success bring crap games or do crap games bring success? I'm hearing both viewpoints here.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

So does success bring crap games or do crap games bring success? I'm hearing both viewpoints here.

Tough to really quantify either theory.

But there definitely seems to be a crap titles / successful console correlation.

[mario2butts]

As for Nintendo moving away from what the "Seal of Quality" stood for, that's a bunch of Grade A Crap. The Seal of Quality was NEVER kept off bad games just because they're bad. All the seal ever meant was that whoever made the game got a proper license from Nintendo. It has NOTHING TO DO WITH QUALITY. They put the seal on shitty games 20 years ago, and they put the seal on shitty games today. Nothing is different. Nothing.

Although, it is interesting to note that Nintendo removed "of quality" from the seal starting near the end of the GC's run!

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/9237/beholdii3.jpg

[blissfulnoise]

It has nothing to do with the shovelware; it has everything to do with the sales.

The DS is still selling games like mad. The attach rate on the Wii is abysmal. So much so that it looks like 3rd parties are starting to consider stopping support for Wii because there is no money to be made (source: latest Game Informer).

But no, I don't think the Wii has peaked yet. After No More Heroes and Smash Brothers, I can't see any games on the immediately horizon I'm very interested in, but good stuff is still going to come. I'll be looking into Crystal Chronicles of course, Project HAMMER looks pretty good, and Day of Disaster could be awesome.

I suspect the Wii will go exactly like the GameCube. Great quirky games every so often, a big time Nintendo release about twice or three times a year, and an occassional great release out of left field.

[Gabriel]

Most systems are loaded with horrible games. Atleast with the Wii we get a warning by looking at the price.

Yep. If it's for the Wii, and has a price, it sucks. :D

[Leo_A]

Project Hammer was axed a long time ago.

[snes_collector]

Actually, a shocking number of Wii games are being returned to the distributor to be destroyed...

Any info on this?

[Daltone]

Even looking past the outright shovel-ware the Wii has more than its fair share of crap.

A friend came over with a Wii tonight, and we played a bit. The ports from other systems were absolutely dire (Fifa 08, TNMT and Spiderman 3 in particular were hilariously bad) , some stuff reeked of a quick buck (Mario Party 8, which seemed little different from the previous 7 and Mario and Sonic at the Olympics, which was just plain poor, really stood out), whilst other games simply weren't terribly interesting (Red Steel, we are looking at you.)

I realise that we were hardly playing the best the Wii has to offer, but still, these should at least be middle of the road games. Fifa 08 in particular was almost as bad as the notorious N64 version.

Has it reached a critical mass of shovel-ware though? Absolutely not. Presumably, this cheaply made crap sells. The thought of another stock Nintendo title on the horizon (Mario, Zelda, Wario, Metriod.. the usual) in one form or another seems to be keeping folks interested, and I can see 'casual' gamers picking up the less than stellar stuff simply because they know no better.

[Teknik_SE-R]

Alright!! I landed in somebody's quote section!!

I'll be sure not to take that graphic out of my Photobucket anytime soon.

sweet! It'll probably stay in my sig until you do. Considering how often I'm here, probably well after also.

I think everyone has a valid point here. Nintendo Seal (nae, of quality) doesn't mean anything but that Tendy is bankrolling the developer/publisher.

and Wii shouldn't be singled out, except that right off the bat the ratio of poop to goodness was/is 10:1. It usually takes an entire console life to acquire that much junk.

"Nintendo is attracting casual gamers" my a$$. Tendy is going to scare away all those money spending "casual gamers" if they can't find anything worth playing. Then the industry is going to take a dump again.

maybe that is a good thing though

[chrisbid]

whats the point of publishing killer titles if nintendo cant catch up with hardware demand? wii sports is still the killer app and it will stay that way for at least another six months to a year. the shovelware is doing its job of holding shelf space for nintendo quite well.

[Teknik_SE-R]

Project Hammer was axed a long time ago.

Really? that sux.

I was looking forward to a new "adult centric" franchise that didn't involve Linkirbamusario or any other retro revivals. Don't get me wrong. I love the franchises, but I think they have milked it quite enough with chargers strikers kart SSB paper party etc etc etc ad nauseum.

Love the core games more than any others on any other platform, but I can't imagine buying another iteration of the spinoffs, e.g. Mario Party 9.

I know ppl moan and groan on how often the core games are released (I do too), but honestly, I couldn't accept less than what it took them the 5 years to develop.

[calthaer]

I see absolutely zero reason to purchase a Wii. After a dalliance with these consoles and their paper-thin games, I'm thinking about switching back to PC-only. Truly deep stories - ones that not only have some supposedly "epic feel" (like all the console "rpgs" claim to have), but also touch on the core issues of humanity. Things like Deus Ex (the first one) are what I'm talking about.

They don't make 'em like they used to.

[neuropolitique]

Things like Deus Ex (the first one) are what I'm talking about.

They don't make 'em like they used to.


Thank Christ

[Rob2600]

After a dalliance with these consoles and their paper-thin games, I'm thinking about switching back to PC-only. Truly deep stories - ones that not only have some supposedly "epic feel" (like all the console "rpgs" claim to have), but also touch on the core issues of humanity. ... They don't make 'em like they used to.

Yes, I miss the deep stories in Unreal Tournament, Quake, Doom, Redneck Rampage, Deer Hunter, Carmageddon, Diablo, Madden NFL, and Extreme Paintbrawl.

And don't forget those great epic classics like Messiah, Shadow Man, Daikatana, Darkened Skye, Riven, Bad Day LA, Enter the Matrix, and Dragon Riders: Chronicles of Pern. Oh wait, I mean epic failures.

Seriously though, if there's any platform that has crazy amounts of dumb, glitchy shovelware and over-hyped junk, it's the PC.

[Rob2600]

Anyway, before the Nintendo Mafia arrives and turns this thread into Wii vs. everything else, let me say that it's obvious Wii shovelware is getting out of hand.

Has the Nintendo Mafia ever whacked anybody?

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Has the Nintendo Mafia ever whacked anybody?

Two words:

poison

mushrooms

http://blog.jonnay.net/uploads/Pictures/PoisonMushroomOriginal.serendipityThumb.gif

[blissfulnoise]

I see absolutely zero reason to purchase a Wii. After a dalliance with these consoles and their paper-thin games, I'm thinking about switching back to PC-only. Truly deep stories - ones that not only have some supposedly "epic feel" (like all the console "rpgs" claim to have), but also touch on the core issues of humanity. Things like Deus Ex (the first one) are what I'm talking about.

They don't make 'em like they used to.

This is dangerously off subject but I'm compelled to respond...

I've seen some of your other posts along the same lines and the only thing paper thin here is your obviously biased and skewed viewpoint. If gaming has passed you by, so be it. Just don't make ignorant blanket statements like the above.

Nearly everything worthy in the retail PC market is seeing a console release anyway due to the absolute lack of sales at the big box level. Even episodic content like Sam and Max stand as sure on ports to consoles to try and recoup the development costs and perhaps, gasp, make a profit.

But I will say this of PC gaming; it is definitely the place to find games that are pushing the concepts of genre and storytelling forward. But you won't find any of these games on shelves at Best Buy; everything interesting in the PC market is going on in the indie scene.

Small time MMOs, "Serious" games, Games as Art (games literally proclaiming themselves as such), and open source collaborations are what's keeping my eye turned towards the PC for innovation. Obviously XBLA and the Virtual Console (and to a lesser extent PSN) aren't ready to take risks on games like these, so, for now, they remain solely in the domain of the PC.

[heybtbm]

Has the Nintendo Mafia ever whacked anybody?

You tell me...Godfather.

[Rob2600]

You tell me...Godfather.

Don't ask me about my business.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

This is dangerously off subject but I'm compelled to respond...

I've seen some of your other posts along the same lines and the only thing paper thin here is your obviously biased and skewed viewpoint. If gaming has passed you by, so be it. Just don't make ignorant blanket statements like the above.

Nearly everything worthy in the retail PC market is seeing a console release anyway due to the absolute lack of sales at the big box level. Even episodic content like Sam and Max stand as sure on ports to consoles to try and recoup the development costs and perhaps, gasp, make a profit.

But I will say this of PC gaming; it is definitely the place to find games that are pushing the concepts of genre and storytelling forward. But you won't find any of these games on shelves at Best Buy; everything interesting in the PC market is going on in the indie scene.

Small time MMOs, "Serious" games, Games as Art (games literally proclaiming themselves as such), and open source collaborations are what's keeping my eye turned towards the PC for innovation. Obviously XBLA and the Virtual Console (and to a lesser extent PSN) aren't ready to take risks on games like these, so, for now, they remain solely in the domain of the PC.

I believe In the current market, there seems to be some room for creative independent developers' projects to "bleed" into the home console scene (PSN, XBLA XNA Developers, and the upcoming Wii Ware) more so than in the recent past anyway ...

However, you're absolutely right, the PC has been and will be for the foreseeable future the platform with the highest amount of developer experimentation and creative gaming concepts due to the fact that It's a totally open development platform with the highest user online install rate; so, distribution can be fast and very "viral" through word of mouth, and totally free if needed.

Though, I don't think that it's totally fair to call the console market bereft of creative titles, "deep" stories, or well crafted games (not that you said that, but the sentiment has been echoed through the thread).

[diskoboy]

The Wii has Smash Bros. Brawl, Crazy Climber (which probably won't get a US release), and No More Heroes coming up, and That's about it.

I also forgot about Okami coming out in March. But I could always buy the PS2 version, but I'm assuming the Wii will have better controls.

[blissfulnoise]

I also forgot about Okami coming out in March. But I could always buy the PS2 version, but I'm assuming the Wii will have worse controls.

Fixed.

[Rob2600]

The Wii has Smash Bros. Brawl, Crazy Climber (which probably won't get a US release), and No More Heroes coming up, and that's about it.


I also forgot about Okami coming out in March.

Also: Endless Ocean, BlastWorks, Nitro Bike, De Blob, Mario Kart, Star Wars: The Force Unleashed, Sega Bass Fishing, and Wii Fit.

And that's just within the next six months.

[Hep038]

Sega bass fishing!!!!! WOOT, Wii RULES!

[boatofcar]

No More Heroes creator speaks (http://kotaku.com/345855/third-party-wii-games-arent-selling)


No More Heroes creator Goichi Suda says third party Wii games aren't selling. He should know! Even though it faired well critically, nobody in Japan bought his game. (Well, not nobody.) What does Suda think of developing for the Wii? This:


"Whilst the sales weren't as high as I hoped, other titles for Wii aren't selling so well either. Only Nintendo titles are doing well. This isn't just because of the current situation in Japan, as this is happening outside Japan... Actually I was very surprised about the reality about Wii, because before I was making this game, I wasn't expecting that Wii would be a console targeted only for non-gamers. I expected more games for hardcore gamers. The reality is different to what I expected."


Does that means the No More Heroes sequel will be on a "hardcore" consoles — say, the Xbox 360 or PS3?

[Julio III]

So I went into a GameStation yesterday and saw quite a lot of these budget games branded "Popcorn Arcade" of which they were selling 2 for £30. I really really liked the look of 2 of these games, Mini Desktop Racing and Ninjabread Man but upon reading the very few reviews available on the internet have realised that they are poorly made and are meant to be lousy. This is a shame, as the games look great fun and at that price range I would definitely buy them and I also know they are going to be short and sweet and don't need a huge investment of time to enjoy fully. Oh well. I guess these games are just budget because they didn't have enough money to develop them properly, which is a shame.