MS just sent me a new 360... why?

[jonjandran]

Well, it gave me reason to pause and think about the larger issue, for whatever that's worth.

That's worth a lot to me. Thanks :)

[thegardentool]

AT&T accidentally sent me two DSL modems when I subscribed in August. I never thought or took time to try and return it for such a little item.

The first week in December the modem died. I spent an hour and a half on the phone with them trying to see what the problem was and finally they told me it was the modem and spent another 30 minutes on the phone telling me they didn't have a record of ever sending me a modem. So I was outraged until I remember I still had the second modem in the closest. Plus the modem was like 10 days out of warranty even if they did have it on file.

Oh well AT&T sucks so I'll never give them back any modems. I should have filed a complaint with the BBB but oh well. See Karma works in both ways, they sent me two modems, one broke and I had a spare so I didn't file any complaints.

[Dragon Warrior Jasen]

I am not a big fan of Microsoft. I'll put that out on the table. I own a 360 though, because I like it. Its a good console, and I haven't played the crap out of it to get the red rings.. so far I am happy. My opinion on Windows though is far less, and thats why I own 3 Apple Computers.

I am going to jump on the wagon of calling and returning it. Back in 1999 when I ordered my new computer for college from Gateway they sent me 2. One exactly like I configured it, the other as the base model.

I thought about keeping it, cannibalizing the two into one and selling the extra parts, selling the extra one, or just having two computers. Then I realized I am not a schmuck. I called Gateway, even though it was their error, they sent UPS the next day to get the boxes.

They didn't give me a refund or discount on the computer I kept. No awards were sent my way, and nothing amazing happened in my life for doing the right thing. I was not upset though. I was able to sleep though, I was able to look myself in the mirror without being ashamed of my actions, and i was able to be happy that I did the right thing because I know I was raised right.

In this situation, having been in it once before, I would make every attempt to send it back. This crap about "you deserving it", its not stealing, Microsoft is an evil corporation, the 360 breaks, you can use it as a backup, blah, blah, blah... shows a persons real character.

Microsoft is a big corporation that has become such because the consumers eat up their products and give them thier money, and fantastic business deals that most corporations wish they could make one day. Some of their products are great, some are horrible, its the way the world turns. However, they aren't evil or an enemy. If you dont agree with them don't buy their products. If you do buy their products, you want them to support you and help you.

If you keep the 360, you take away from their willingness to help you because you take away from thier cash flow. Sure one 360 to them is like a penny for the rest of us, but if everyone takes away a penny eventually they have sufficient resources to support their customers.

Is it a drastic example sure, but in the end you will do what you want and you have to be able to look yourself in the mirror.

I agree with the previous comment about society going downhill if this is even a question to you. What happened to the days of just good natured common decency and sense of morality?

[gepeto]

My first rrd replacement came ups my second one is coming fed ex maybe i will get a new one with Hdmi:)

[TheDomesticInstitution]

In this situation, having been in it once before, I would make every attempt to send it back. This crap about "you deserving it", its not stealing, Microsoft is an evil corporation, the 360 breaks, you can use it as a backup, blah, blah, blah... shows a persons real character......

....Is it a drastic example sure, but in the end you will do what you want and you have to be able to look yourself in the mirror.

I agree with the previous comment about society going downhill if this is even a question to you. What happened to the days of just good natured common decency and sense of morality?


Yeah... so I happen to be on the "keep it" side of the fence, as evidenced from a previous post. You're right, it shows my true character. I don't have many friends, because of my questionable moral standards. Let me list a few ways to spot individuals like me: I never wave people in front of me in heavy traffic, I also have trouble stealing from close friends and relatives, I'm the "last call" creep at the bar trolling for the really drunk chicks, I speed in school zones, and cut in line at church functions.

Sarcasm aside- that's a pretty obtuse statement. Although you may not be a true boy/girlscout for keeping the xbox- I hardly think it's a red flag that someone wallows in moral squalor. You may as well have said "good people send it back" and "bad people keep it." Isn't that what you mean?

[FantasiaWHT]

Yeah... so I happen to be on the "keep it" side of the fence, as evidenced from a previous post. You're right, it shows my true character. I don't have many friends, because of my questionable moral standards. Let me list a few ways to spot individuals like me: I never wave people in front of me in heavy traffic, I also have trouble stealing from close friends and relatives, I'm the "last call" creep at the bar trolling for the really drunk chicks, I speed in school zones, and cut in line at church functions.

Sarcasm aside- that's a pretty obtuse statement. Although you may not be a true boy/girlscout for keeping the xbox- I hardly think it's a red flag that someone wallows in moral squalor. You may as well have said "good people send it back" and "bad people keep it." Isn't that what you mean?

So basically your argument boils to "What I'm doing isn't really bad because other people do worse things?" Nice rationalization.

[MoreEbolaForYou]

to sum alllll this up, we need to invoke the ever classic "HK". which of course stands for: WHO CARES?

[TheDomesticInstitution]

So basically your argument boils to "What I'm doing isn't really bad because other people do worse things?" Nice rationalization.

No actually... my argument was, that because I wouldn't send a second xbox back to microsoft- I'm not a bad person. Dragon Warrior Jasen (he's not alone- a few others have inferred similar things) drew a parallel between the downfall of western civilization and between the people who wouldn't send back the xbox (not directly- but it was spelled out in it's post). Unless Dragon Warrior Jasen obeys the speed limit, and follows the word of the law to a T all the time, he shouldn't pass judgement on others. I have never met a single person who didn't break some sort of law. And what is the law? Local statues, federal laws, or biblical law? And a majority of people (everywhere-myself included) have their own set of moral standards by which they live and judge others. I have certain values that I live by, and generally believe myself to be a good person. I've never been to jail, never been in a fight, never taken anything from friends or family, I have never cheated on a girlfriend, never killed anyone (extreme- but made only in case someone pulls the Hitler card), not a drug user, have volunteered for a few social programs... I mean come on... if not sending an xbox back reveals my true character- what the fuck does that mean? What do all the "good" things I've done reveal about my character? All I'm saying is one man's opinion does not make me a good or bad person. Human morality is way more complex than an xbox error. Is a someone wrong because he thinks abortion should be legal? Is someone wrong because he doesn't support the right to choose? The law agrees that abortion is a legal process. The bible says "thou shalt not kill." Which one right? It's up to an indivdual to make that decision for themselves. Our western court systems are based on the 10 commandments right? The Holiest Book in the Christian world. Why don't we have a law based upon "Thou Shalt Have No Other God Before Me"? It's in the Bible? Which law does one decide to follow? Legality and Morality are 2 totally different things- I think most would agree upon that. If you follow the law, it doesn't necessarily make you a good person. If you don't follow the law, it doesn't make you a bad person... necessarily. I'm just offended that some people are attacking other's character over such a trivial matter. If it was such a black and white issue would there have been so many points of view- would there have even been this thread? God, I need to shut up. Sorry for the long read everyone. I hope I made a decent case for myself.

[FantasiaWHT]

So I'm still not quite clear - is your argument that a) These minor things really aren't "bad" at all, or b) These minor things are bad, but that doesn't make me bad, because there's worse things I could be doing?

[Dragon Warrior Jasen]

I bring this up, because it applies... and is itself a quandry...

There are no absolute truths.

And, I don't speed. In Italy, there are "suggested" speed limits :)

[TheDomesticInstitution]

So when you say "bad" is that the same as you saying "against the law?" I UNDERSTAND that it is "against the law" but I don't think it's bad. Against the law is a pretty yes or no question. It either is or isn't. I'm not sure what your beef is with me anyway? I have a serious issue with drawing parallels between society's downfall and keeping a damn xbox sent to you by mistake. I don't think a person is "bad" because they do this. I never argued it's lawfulness. If this is too vague an answer for you, I can't do any better. I don't equate morality with the US law. "bad" is incogruent with "against the law." I thought this much was clear from the argument. You probably did better on multiple choice tests than essay ones right? That was a joke. And although I didn't agree with your previous post DWJ, I do agree (for the most part) with your above statement.

[p_b]

Oh dear.....trouble is, you're right, Jasen...

[Dragon Warrior Jasen]

I don't have any beef with anyone. I was just stating my opinion on the matter.

I think if you want to call my education and IQ into question, I will point you to the Bachelor of Science in Applied Mathematics on my wall, which is next to my Naval Nuclear Power School Graduation Certificate and my Nuclear Engineer Qualification Documents.

I also think that you are making far too broad assumptions regarding me and my ideas in general.

If something is against the law, is it inherently "bad"? If your morals are different than someone else's then it may or may not be. However, that being said as an American Citizen you have a say in laws that we have. It's called voting. If you don't get your say in, then you allow others and their beliefs based on their moral set make something right or wrong. Like it or not if you do something against the law, then yes it is bad. You aren't following societies rules.

I will argue to the day that I die that if we allow people to exploit gray areas and loopholes because they feel it is owed to them, then society as a whole will fail. It is this train of thought that costs other citizens millions of dollars in frivolous lawsuits, price hikes, and general distrust of others. Do I need to remind you of the elderly woman who sued McDonalds for the hot coffee she spilled on herself?

When people act this way, its greedy and just makes for a bad character. You can agree or not, its a free country, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

[LocalH]

Do I need to remind you of the elderly woman who sued McDonalds for the hot coffee she spilled on herself?
I don't believe that lawsuit was as frivolous as you think. I seem to remember that McDonald's WAS serving coffee way too hot, and all she initially wanted was McD's to pay her medical bills and give her a little extra (medical bills were $11k and she asked for $20k). McD's offered $800. After she retained a lawyer, there were attempts to settle for $90k and $300k, which McD's also refused. It was found that McD's required franchises to serve coffee between 180-190°F whereas most other places served it at 140°. Plus, she didn't get as much as most people think. Yes, the jury awarded $1.6million in punitive damage but the judge lowered it to $480,000 (along with $160,000 in compensatory damages), but they settled for a total of less than $600k.

That's a big tangent anyway - this has nothing to do with the topic at hand except for the fact that you're projecting your morals on others. That is what's wrong with the world, people don't know when to leave the hell enough alone. There have been many people in this thread who are basically talking down about the original poster should he decide to keep the 360 (which was sent to him in his name and registered to his gamertag, a fact that many people seem to be ignoring, if it was meant for someone else wouldn't it be registered to THEIR gamertag at the very least?). I say keep it until Microsoft asks for it back, IF Microsoft asks for it back. If they want it back, you're obligated to return it. If they don't ask for it back, then keep it in the closet as a backup, unused (that way, if you get an unexpected call from Microsoft six months or a year down the road, you've still got the system and can still return it to them).

Morals are not universal (some of the more important morals should be, but even still people out there have no compunctions about doing things that would horrify any sane person). And that's a good thing. Morals shouldn't be universal. One of the greatest things about human life is the ability of each person to determine for themselves what is right and wrong, as long as they aren't infringing on anyone else's rights. Sure, some people abuse that. That's a small price to pay to have the freedom that we are inherently born with. I'm not willing to give that up, and if you are, should you be in the US, then you need to review your country's history and the writings of the men who founded it.

[TheDomesticInstitution]

I don't have any beef with anyone. I was just stating my opinion on the matter.

I think if you want to call my education and IQ into question, I will point you to the Bachelor of Science in Applied Mathematics on my wall, which is next to my Naval Nuclear Power School Graduation Certificate and my Nuclear Engineer Qualification Documents.

I also think that you are making far too broad assumptions regarding me and my ideas in general.

If something is against the law, is it inherently "bad"? If your morals are different than someone else's then it may or may not be. However, that being said as an American Citizen you have a say in laws that we have. It's called voting. If you don't get your say in, then you allow others and their beliefs based on their moral set make something right or wrong. Like it or not if you do something against the law, then yes it is bad. You aren't following societies rules.

I will argue to the day that I die that if we allow people to exploit gray areas and loopholes because they feel it is owed to them, then society as a whole will fail. It is this train of thought that costs other citizens millions of dollars in frivolous lawsuits, price hikes, and general distrust of others. Do I need to remind you of the elderly woman who sued McDonalds for the hot coffee she spilled on herself?

When people act this way, its greedy and just makes for a bad character. You can agree or not, its a free country, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Let's make a few things clear. I never called into question your intelligence or your schooling (you seem very intelligent- whose own education exceeds mine). I don't believe in any sort of frivolous lawsuits. And I don't think that criticizing your 2 statements of...

"In this situation, having been in it once before, I would make every attempt to send it back. This crap about "you deserving it", its not stealing, Microsoft is an evil corporation, the 360 breaks, you can use it as a backup, blah, blah, blah... shows a persons real character."

"I agree with the previous comment about society going downhill if this is even a question to you. What happened to the days of just good natured common decency and sense of morality?"

...is making broad assumptions. They aren't really open to that much interpretation. I'm also not attacking you as a person, as I don't question the good nature your character. But I do think there is a problem with passing judgement of bad character on an issue like this. And I happen to think the days of good natured common decency are a little overblown- considering how far the US has come on human rights of its own citizens in the past 200, 100, and even 50 years. Agreements may have been made on a man's word and a handshake, but there were a lot of other problems in the good ole days. So we can agree to disagree on what's right and wrong, and we're both entitled to what actions we deem to be in good character (irregardless of written law). And I am a registered voter, thank you very much. And when laws vary widely from country to country (especially drug laws), how can you call one bad and another law good. If I move to another country and do legal things that were against the law in a former country (were my actions in my previous residence no longer bad?)

[fcw3]

I may have mispoke in an earlier post calling it a morality test. It may not be a question of morality. Maybe more a test of character.

"Our character is what we do when we think no one is looking."

What can I get away with if I know I won't get caught ?

Would you trust someone that knowingly kept something that wasn't theirs ? Or would you worry that the next time they kept something that wasn't theirs, that, whatever it was, might have been yours ?

I guess morality is your own interpretation of right and wrong. Character is one's interpretation of another's morality.

(This is not an indictment of anyone including the original poster. Just adding to the discussion)

FRED

[Dragon Warrior Jasen]

I don't think it is necessarily a question of morality. I think it is character.

"Our character is what we do when we think no one is looking."

Would you trust someone that knowingly kept something that wasn't theirs ? Or would you worry that the next time they kept something that wasn't theirs, that, whatever it was, might have been yours ?

I guess morality is your own interpretation of right and wrong. Character is one's interpretation of another's morality.

(This is not an indictment of anyone including the original poster. Just adding to the discussion)

FRED

Fred, you make an excellent point. Although, I think morals and character go hand in hand. I think if you have good morals, you inturn have good character.


Again, that is a huge assumption that your morals and mine are the same.

I agree that nobody will agree on everything. If it were that easy the world would be a much simpler place. The concept of right or wrong and what we all interpret as right and wrong varies widely. I make the easiest analogy:

Islamic Extremist think it is perfectly ok to kill hundreds to thousands of people with a suicide bomb because we have different cultures. While the average christian thinks this is an appalling thought. (I am neither of these religions, I only use it for a true real world example.)

Another easy analogy is:

In Saudi Arabia it is illegal for a woman to be alone with a man that is not related to her. I expect that most folks in the western world think this is also absurd.

This entire topic is a great discussion on ethics in general. Be it business ethics, moral ethics, etc.

I apologize if I came across as preachy in my first post, I just find it hard to believe that so many people would think its ok to keep the 360 in this situation.

[FantasiaWHT]

Ahhh moral relativism. Nobody can tell me what's bad and what isn't, I get to decide that for myself. If that's the excuse for stealing, then yes, I agree with the original assertion that the lack of this moral capacity (for that particular reason) is a fair enough indicator of overall "badness".

If you can rationalize this behavior by claiming that no authority above you can summarily declare it to be wrong, you can rationalize any behavior the same way.

[TheDomesticInstitution]

That's a big tangent anyway - this has nothing to do with the topic at hand except for the fact that you're projecting your morals on others. That is what's wrong with the world, people don't know when to leave the hell enough alone. There have been many people in this thread who are basically talking down about the original poster should he decide to keep the 360 (which was sent to him in his name and registered to his gamertag, a fact that many people seem to be ignoring, if it was meant for someone else wouldn't it be registered to THEIR gamertag at the very least?). I say keep it until Microsoft asks for it back, IF Microsoft asks for it back. If they want it back, you're obligated to return it. If they don't ask for it back, then keep it in the closet as a backup, unused (that way, if you get an unexpected call from Microsoft six months or a year down the road, you've still got the system and can still return it to them).

I agree with this 100%... and I don't think others should be so quick to pass judgement on the character of others- given the circumstances and all things considered- if OP keeps the package.

Right Fantasia... keeping the XBOX begats justifiable homicide. The future looks great for sociopaths like me .

[gepeto]

I just recieved my replacement 360. The sent me a Zephyer alright a Zefram cochrane Dam machine was 2 months older than the one I sent in..... Well at least the dvd works:)

[gepeto]

Oh mY I spoke 2 soon. Here is what happened I turned on the console and stuck timeshift in. It starts to play. Then the screen turns psycodelic color like the predators vision then no picture. I can hear the game playing no picture. I thought it was the tv cable reseated that no good. I tried 3x s no pic. I hooked up my other 360 picture. Off to 1800 for my xbox.

[Berserker]

These last two posts above speak volumes more than any multi-paragraphed post in this entire thread -- including mine.

[dylan0228]

It may be your HD settings. I have a 1080i & 1080p. If I play on the 1080p & switch to the 1080i without changing the settings on the 360, I don`t get a picture. That`s with component cables, I think HDMI fixed that problem for me. I don`t get that anymore with HDMI.

[gepeto]

It is a bad box. The I called and we reset the 360 display via the controller. I turned it on and nothing. THE 360 lady tried to get me to pay 99.00 saying it is out of warranty. That was crazy. I asked to speak to a supervisor. While on hold I pressed the power again and this time it came on.

I popped in timeshift and it started to run then same thing. this time I left it on and lines kept popping up on the tv screen then back to black.

After the supervisor came on they quickly decided to redispatch a box. This time I have to include the power supply. Total time on hold 1 hour.

Ps I tried the same cable with my other 360 it worked fine timeshift ran with no problems. This one has not yet been added to the collective.