Final Fantasy VII $72.00 Am I missing something?

[Savedman]

I stopped by "Play It or Trade It" video game store north of OSU campus on North High this last weekend to find a used copy of Playstation (greatest hits even) FF VII for $72.00. Ummm...am I missing something here. Dude said that since Advent Children came out no one is trading it in anymore and it has become very hard to find so the price shot up. These guy have got to be on crack. They also had used Rayman 2 for PSX for $61.00, Atari 7800 bundle with 10 common games for $60.00. NES toploader for $108.00. Am I just out of it or are these prices common?

[jcalder8]

In stores these are common. In fact I found a Genesis with no hookups or controllers at a Salvation Army today for 40. Same price and condition for a PS.

[scooterb23]

Savedman, I'd like to thank you. I've been meaning to stop at that store and check it out...you've saved me a trip.

[InsaneDavid]

Dude said that since Advent Children came out no one is trading it in anymore and it has become very hard to find so the price shot up. These guy have got to be on crack.

No, that's true, the price for Final Fantasy VII is crazy right now. The other stuff you listed is crazy but FFVII does go for that rate right now. I've sold GH versions without booklets for $60.00+ easy on eBay. Search around.

[Cornelius]

I hate to throw eBay prices around as if they are rational, but I just sold a FFVII for 58 (final value), but the buyer paid $77 shipped priority to Canada. So, the price you were looking at wasn't too terrible by comparison for a retail store. The other prices seem a bit out there, but I haven't compared on those in a while. Its gotta be hard for a B&M store to compete with eBay and all. Seems not long ago there was a thread lamenting the closing of another classic gaming store...

[ncman071]

i "lucked up" and found a copy of FFVII for $39.99 at a playntrade store. i just wanted the game because i loved that game in 97, just never owned it.

[DragonMaster Sam]

I snagged me a complete copy at FYE a few years ago for $14.99 before they stopped carrying PSOne games.

[ncman071]

FFVII is definitly a high demand item but definitly not a rare item. its crazy that it costs so much for games like that.

[scooterb23]

I know what you mean, I've come across 3-4 FF VII games, GH and non in my travels, and have never had to pay more than $5 for any of them, I also didn't sell them for much more than that (may change that policy next time I get one)...I don't get why people would pay those crazy prices for a game that seems to be so easily available...

[psychic1]

Responses like those in this topic always baffle me.

Brand new games since the beginning of time have cost 50-$80 on average.
We're talking games that everyone is completely obvious to their quality. But millions of people gladly pay those prices all the time.

But as soon as a game has been out for awhile god forbid its actually more expensive then your typical new game!
Its like you'll gladly pay $50 for a lottery ticket, will it be a total loser, will I get my moneys worth or will I get a totally awesome game? Who knows!
So it amazes me that so many people won't pay a little more than that for a game that is a guaranteed jackpot.
Whereas me, I'm the exact opposite. I've bought so many games at $50+ that more often than not turn out to be total crap to gladly pay hundreds for the Valkyrie Profiles and Panzer Dragoon Sagas of the world.
You mean I can get one of the greatest games of all time for the cost of two lottery tickets? Where do I sign up? Please sell me great games for a hundred bucks! I'll even thank you!

Final Fantasy VII is only like the best game of all time. No matter who you talk to its in the top 100 games of all time. A game like that, me, I'd pay a thousand for it and be totally happy about it. I'm completely serious too.

[Porksta]

Final Fantasy VII is only like the best game of all time. No matter who you talk to its in the top 100 games of all time. A game like that, me, I'd pay a thousand for it and be totally happy about it. I'm completely serious too.

Looks like I just stumbled across my old copy. Interested?? :D

[InsaneDavid]

Looks like I just stumbled across my old copy. Interested?? :D

Was just about to post a similar comment. If I were psychic1 I'd be a little more careful with my dollar, that way you wouldn't blow huge sums of cash on crappy games and then make outlandish remarks like Final Fantasy VII is worth thousands.

[cyberfluxor]

It's been a sellers market for FF VII for awhile now and will continue for a good while longer. This topic has come up quite a few times since Advent Children came out.

[Nirvana]

That is pretty ridiclous. I know my local Disc Replay has it for a pretty excellent price. I believe it's like 20 bucks or something.

[SeverThe7th]

Responses like those in this topic always baffle me.

Brand new games since the beginning of time have cost 50-$80 on average.


Brand new games aren't second hand, though.

[debian4life]

It is true that Final Fantasy VII is not rare, but try finding it at an Electronics Boutique or Gamestop and your out of luck. Unless you stumble upon it in the wild and get lucky, your only spot for getting this is on eBay. If anyone knows of elsewhere please post for us.

Regards,

Brian

[G-Boobie]

Despite the public school english of Psychic1's post, I think I understand his point and even agree just a little bit. I paid nearly one hundred US dollars for a replacement copy of Radiant Silvergun when my original was stolen and counted myself lucky I didn't have to pay two hundred...

[Jorpho]

Indeed. I had never thought about it that way before.

[Mr. Smashy]

It is true that Final Fantasy VII is not rare, but try finding it at an Electronics Boutique or Gamestop and your out of luck. Unless you stumble upon it in the wild and get lucky, your only spot for getting this is on eBay. If anyone knows of elsewhere please post for us.

I actually found one at an EB 3 weeks ago for about $10. It wasn't complete but I had a spare manual lying around to fix that.

[Dire 51]

Final Fantasy VII is only like the best game of all time. No matter who you talk to its in the top 100 games of all time.
You've obviously never talked to me. Didn't make my top 100, that's for sure. It wouldn't even make my top 500, if I were to ever concoct such a list.

[James8BitStar]

I wouldn't put FF7 on my Top 100 list either. That being said though this sounds like a good time to ditch my Playstation library... ^__^

Or not... trying to decide if the money outweighs the nostalgia.

[Daria]

I snagged my copy for $12 after the price hike. It was one of those games that I saw everywhere a few years ago and never picked it up because I'd pass it over for another RPG instead. I figured FF7 was common and not going anywhere. Cue Advent Children and suddenly everyone wanted a mint for it. I'm stubborn and refused to pay more than $15. People called me crazy and a cheap-skate. But I found a seller. So ... meh! :Þ Heh.

Oh. I'd put it on a top 100 list. Top 100 best American PSX RPGs... of which there's only 81. >.>

[murdoc rose]

72 bucks is shocking cause I know I've passed up copies for like 5$ before. It is however one of the few ps1 games I do own an non greatest hits version too. Sadly I don't have the third disk, other than that its complete. The same goes for my gradia missing the second disk. :sob: by the way I reallly don't collect disk games just carts unless its something I want to play.

[heybtbm]

I was waiting for the "look at me, I'm such a rebel" FFVII haters to come out. It only took a few hours. Everyone here is impressed with your heroic individuality.

[Daria]

I was waiting for the "look at me, I'm such a rebel" FFVII haters to come out. It only took a few hours. Everyone here is impressed with your cool individuality.



If it were about individuality. There wouldn't be so many of us. Or maybe... *gasp* we just have our opinions to express just like you do.

[diskoboy]

Final Fantasy VII is only like the best game of all time. No matter who you talk to its in the top 100 games of all time.

I loathe the Final Fantasy series.

I've been gaming for 30 years now, and none of the Final Fantasy titles would even crack my top 1000.

Hell, I don't even consider RPG's, video games. They're just televised choose your own adventure books.

[Niku-Sama]

man i find bunches of copies for hella cheap, i know where to dump em when i get em.

and frankly the best game ever made and final fantasy 7 dont really do well together, not even best rpg, but thats me

[psychic1]

I loathe the Final Fantasy series.

I've been gaming for 30 years now, and none of the Final Fantasy titles would even crack my top 1000.

Hell, I don't even consider RPG's, video games. They're just televised choose your own adventure books.

Yeah well I've been watching television for 30 years and I wouldn't put The Simpsons in the top 999 centillion television shows of all time.

In fact I don't even consider The Simpsons a television program at all. Its just a cartoon and cartoons are for little kids or people with an equivilent cognitive capacity.

Oh and btw, *clicks ignore*

Buh Bye Dickhead! :ass:

[Aussie2B]

I was waiting for the "look at me, I'm such a rebel" FFVII haters to come out. It only took a few hours. Everyone here is impressed with your heroic individuality.

And I was just waiting for some guy to act "above" all Final Fantasy VII haters and dismiss their opinions as invalid because, you know, that's so original.

Damn right people are going to speak up when someone says something like "Final Fantasy VII is only like the best game of all time. No matter who you talk to its in the top 100 games of all time."

It's comments like those that make people kick themselves in the ass when they drop a huge sum of money on a game they ultimately don't like because the fanboys convince them that there's no way anybody could possibly dislike said game. Thank goodness there are people willing to show all sides of the debate on popular games. There may a lot of anti-fanboys out there, but heaven forbid the fanboys accept the concept that there are also intelligent people that just happen to dislike a popular game and have valid reasons to back up their feelings. Yes, let's shut down all those opinions, so people honestly believe that a game's quality is 100% objective fact, not subjective. Let's allow people to then foolishly waste their money expecting an experience that beats all others, and while some may get that, others won't.

[murdoc rose]

Yeah well I've been watching television for 30 years and I wouldn't put The Simpsons in the top 999 centillion television shows of all time.

In fact I don't even consider The Simpsons a television program at all. Its just a cartoon and cartoons are for little kids or people with an equivilent cognitive capacity.

Oh and btw, *clicks ignore*

Buh Bye Dickhead! :ass:

wow you are a total loser but thats besides the point. ff 7 is in the top us ps1 rpgs because it has to be there were only like 81 released. It actually is one of the better rpgs out of the 81 but I really don't see the following behind 7. Overall I feel that the majority of gamers watch cartoons and The Simpsons is the number one rated cartoon in the us if I'm not mistaken. Might be family guy now.

[InsaneDavid]

In fact I don't even consider The Simpsons a television program at all. Its just a cartoon and cartoons are for little kids or people with an equivilent cognitive capacity.

Cracks me up when ignorant people dismiss animation as something for kids and kids alone. Lest we forget the amazing things Winsor McCay did with animation in the 1910's (http://youtube.com/watch?v=seOGEwx0NfQ). Full video here (http://youtube.com/watch?v=kcSp2ej2S00), an amazing illustrator, remember that entire sequence was drawn on sheets of rice paper glued to cardboard and then the negative was hand colored. Some of his other animation work (http://youtube.com/watch?v=yvzAJouHh7k), just because I feel like posting a link. :) Still my all time favorite comic artist, I could read Little Nemo in Slumberland and Dreams of the Rarebit Fiend for years.

[Jimid2]

Final Fantasy VII is only like the best game of all time. No matter who you talk to its in the top 100 games of all time. A game like that, me, I'd pay a thousand for it and be totally happy about it. I'm completely serious too.
O_O
I refuse to pay that kind of money for an out-of-print game I can suck off any one of a dozen torrents for free...

...and yes, I own a copy of FFVII - actually, I own two copies, a GH and an original, both of which I bought new (thought I'd lost the original for a couple years and found it again in a move three years back)...

[heybtbm]

And I was just waiting for some guy to act "above" all Final Fantasy VII haters and dismiss their opinions as invalid because, you know, that's so original.

Damn right people are going to speak up when someone says something like "Final Fantasy VII is only like the best game of all time. No matter who you talk to its in the top 100 games of all time."

It's comments like those that make people kick themselves in the ass when they drop a huge sum of money on a game they ultimately don't like because the fanboys convince them that there's no way anybody could possibly dislike said game. Thank goodness there are people willing to show all sides of the debate on popular games. There may a lot of anti-fanboys out there, but heaven forbid the fanboys accept the concept that there are also intelligent people that just happen to dislike a popular game and have valid reasons to back up their feelings. Yes, let's shut down all those opinions, so people honestly believe that a game's quality is 100% objective fact, not subjective. Let's allow people to then foolishly waste their money expecting an experience that beats all others, and while some may get that, others won't.

I'm not "above" anyone. If people genuinely don't like FFVII, that's fine with me. I've just observed too many people over the years automatically dismissing popular gaming franchises simply because their popular (GTA, Halo, Final Fantasy, etc.)

Obviously, no two gamers have the same "100 favorite games" list...but the big titles always have their disproportionate amount of ignorant hate directed their way. 9 times out of 10 these idiots haven't even played the game for more than a few minutes. It happens all the time here at DP and it annoys me, so I commented.

[chrisbid]

i work at play it trade it part time, and they use the same pricing system the regional chain buybacks uses. it bases prices off of the amazon marketplace. so, common games end up being super cheap, and games with any amount of rarity or high demand get ridiculous. we do not arbitrarily set prices 'cuz dey sel for dat much on ebay'.... its average of actual online sales.

its not a bad place, scooter, stop in some time

final fantasy vii has been in the 70 range for a few years now, when i moved in with my wife, we sold her copy for more than that on ebay.

[Jimmy Yakapucci]

When you throw out a comment like the quote below, you are going to get responses no matter what game you put in there.


Final Fantasy VII is only like the best game of all time. No matter who you talk to its in the top 100 games of all time. A game like that, me, I'd pay a thousand for it and be totally happy about it. I'm completely serious too.

For a better comment, try this:

Final Fantasy VII is in my opinion like the best game of all time. Many people you talk to, it's in their top 100 games of all time. A game like that, some people would pay a thousand for it and be totally happy about it.

For me personally, I thought the game was good. Don't know where it would fall on my list of top 100, though.

JY

[carlcarlson]

Kinda funny, I stopped in a pawn shop today on a whim and guess what they had! That's right, FFVII. Unfortunately it was GH and didn't have the manual, but I can turn that $8 into $50 without too much trouble.

And for the record, I think FFVII is a great rpg, though I can understand some of the dislike (hate is a bit strong though). For me, rpgs are all about creating the toughest characters possible, and FFVII took that too a new level with the materia system. This is the same reason I absolutely love Disgaea. That game is just insane...

[scooterb23]

i work at play it trade it part time, and they use the same pricing system the regional chain buybacks uses. it bases prices off of the amazon marketplace. so, common games end up being super cheap, and games with any amount of rarity or high demand get ridiculous. we do not arbitrarily set prices 'cuz dey sel for dat much on ebay'.... its average of actual online sales.

its not a bad place, scooter, stop in some time

final fantasy vii has been in the 70 range for a few years now, when i moved in with my wife, we sold her copy for more than that on ebay.

Fair enough chris, I guess I just assumed based on savedman's post, that everything was off the chains there (I have seen my fair share of places where you could tell just by one or two items the entire mindset of the place)...I will at least check it out once before I make my final judgement. :)

And if all it takes to get ignored by someone the likes of phychic1 is to badmouth Final Fantasy VII... I have a complete Game.com collection, I sold a copy of FFVII to help get the money to help buy the last half of that collection. That's right, I would rather have (and play) Fighters Megamix on the Game.com than FFVII!!!!

If that doesn't get me ignored, nothing will. :D

[Graham Mitchell]

I don't really bite on "popular" things too much myself. I gave GTA3 it's 4-month day in court, for example, and the jury decided it was lame. But I really genuinely thought Final Fantasy VII was amazingly, jaw-droppingly unique and beautiful when I bought it in '97. In fact, I thought ALL of the Final Fantasy's were that groundbreaking until VIII came out, and I feel they've all been retarded since then.

Sold it years ago, and I haven't played it in forever, but in the back of my mind I've wanted to give it another spin for years. I think my girlfriend would really like it and we could play it together. Problem is, I guess I'm now going to have to pay over $70 to do that, which I simply can't afford. That bums me out, because this is one I can't even emulate easily with my computer setup. I just hope it gets cheaper later.

[carlcarlson]

I don't really bite on "popular" things too much myself. I gave GTA3 it's 4-month day in court, for example, and the jury decided it was lame.


You played GTA3 for four months even though you thought it was lame? That's not a dig at you, I'm just genuinely intrigued by that.

Also, if you go to pawn shops, flea markets, or garage sales on any kind of regular basis I would guess you will have no trouble finding a FF7. It is a pretty common game, and it's not hard to find one with a reasonable price (as I did today!). Don't rely on ebay, not unless you want to spend top dollar.

[Dire 51]

I was waiting for the "look at me, I'm such a rebel" FFVII haters to come out. It only took a few hours. Everyone here is impressed with your heroic individuality.
I guess that would make me the guy that kicked off the "hatemongering". *shrug*

At any rate, I dislike the game because it just plain bored me. Not only that, but the story seemed overly melodramatic and it got even worse the further I got into it. I admit to not being a fan of RPGs, but others have held my attention long enough to finish them (FF2a, Phantasy Star I & II and a couple of others). FF7 did not. Therefore, it will never make a "top ___ favorites" list of mine. It did make my list of top 10 overrated games way back when, though.

So I dont like it. If you do, that's great - more power to you. But when ridiculous blanket statements like "Final Fantasy VII is only like the best game of all time. No matter who you talk to its in the top 100 games of all time." are made, look out.

[Graham Mitchell]

You played GTA3 for four months even though you thought it was lame? That's not a dig at you, I'm just genuinely intrigued by that.



It was the only PS2 game I had besides Metal Gear Solid 2 which I beat in a week. I had nothing else to play at the time because I sold almost every game I had to get a PS2.

I think I did really enjoy it at first. It's difficult not to find the whole premise amusing, and the dark humor was enough motivation to keep going for quite awhile. The radio stations in particular are hilarious.

But I felt that as a game, it tried to do about a million things and only did a small handful of them well. I think a big part of the reason I started to dislike it was that it dragged on for quite a long time, and it wasn't continuing to be fun. [The last generation of games is REALLY guilty of this. Final Fantasy X stops being interesting around 20 hours. The whole "collection task in addition to the main quest" thing drives me nuts as well, and I will curse Super Mario 64 forever for starting that trend.] Plus, finding your way around Liberty City is very confusing. That damn arrow may point to the goal, but you can't exactly go in a straight line. You have to look at the map that came with it quite a bit, and it was a big pain in the ass for little yield. It's really the only game I played that long before concluding that I didn't like it. It's so strange, but it's true.

[Savedman]

Fair enough chris, I guess I just assumed based on savedman's post, that everything was off the chains there (I have seen my fair share of places where you could tell just by one or two items the entire mindset of the place)...I will at least check it out once before I make my final judgement. :) :D


Well, I didn't mean to stir all this up! LOL God bless our freedom of speech!!! LOL My appologies to Chris. I should have expounded more on the store rather that just pointing out what I thought to be outrageous. I will say that I did purchase several Intellevision carts in box with docs for 99 cents each! The store is definitley worth a visit Scooter. Now, I wouldn't make a special trip from Circleville for just that (if you still live there) but if you are still working in Columbus at COSI then it's definitely worth the trip. Decent sized store.

To Chris My appologies if I offended and to Psychic...umm....dude you should relax.

[scooterb23]

Eh, don't mind me...my first post was one of those "shooting from the hip without fully using my brain" type things. Plus just a few days ago, I was at a place out of state that was selling some common 2600 games for $15 apiece, so I just assumed (insert tired statement about assumptions).

Like I said, I'll give it a looksee the next time I make it up that way :)

[Kevincal]

I was waiting for the "look at me, I'm such a rebel" FFVII haters to come out. It only took a few hours. Everyone here is impressed with your heroic individuality.

HAHA...So true. :) FFVII is great. I had to sell mine recently though... :( I mean, I already had beaten the crap out of the game anyway... I don't think I could gather the courage to play through it again. Over 50 hours was it? Can't remember... I don't have the attention span for Final Fantasies or Zeldas anymore! :D Thank you, internet. :(

[Aussie2B]

the big titles always have their disproportionate amount of ignorant hate directed their way. 9 times out of 10 these idiots haven't even played the game for more than a few minutes. It happens all the time here at DP and it annoys me, so I commented.

I'd have to beg to differ. I think you're barking up the wrong tree here. DP members deserve more credit than you're giving them. Sure, if you were talking about another site, like say GameFAQs I'd believe you (and this is coming from someone who regularly visits and knows how things are on GameFAQs, for better and for worse, not someone who hasn't visited for years and is just looking for an opportunity to trash the site), but I think the vast majority of members here, especially the ones that stick around and rack up a big post count, are old enough, mature enough, and intelligent enough to play and form their own opinions on games, not trash them just to seem cool.

And seriously, prior to your post there were what, 3 or 4 posts containing comments that could be construed as negative? Mostly just comments that Final Fantasy VII wouldn't be on their Top 100 lists, which is hardly scathing. Most of those posters are also well-known regulars that and I others can vouch for as being levelheaded gamers.

[James8BitStar]

Hell, I don't even consider RPG's, video games. They're just televised choose your own adventure books.

Please tell me this statement was some sort of joke.

[The 1 2 P]

I really wish I wouldn't have opened up my copy of Final Fantasy 7. I only played thru 15 minutes of disc one before I got bored out of my mind and never touched it again. Had I not opened it I could have easily gotten $100-250 on ebay for it.

[psychic1]

To clarify since it apparently wasn't obvious enough, I wasn't being serious in my last post. The only way I knew how to respond to such an asinine comment was to reply in an equally asinine way.

As for the rest of you I didn't state my opinion when I said FF7 was one of the greatest games of all time. Unlike you I am not so arrogant to think my opinion actually has that much value to make such a claim.

Famitsū readers voted Final Fantasy 7 2nd in their top 100 favorite games of all time.

IGN editors from the US, UK and AUS all collaborated and voted FF7 76th in their top 100 games of all time feature.

GameSpot - FF7 is listed among 80 other titles in their Greatest Games of All Time feature.

Game Informer editors voted FF7 10th in their top 100 games of all time feature.

EGM editors voted FF7 the 6th most important video game of all time.

GamePro editors voted FF7 14th in their top 52 most important video games of all time feature.

GameFAQs visitors voted Final Fantasy 7 as the best game ever...twice.

There you have expert and amateur critics, professional opinions as well as gamers opinions. The overall gaming community from all four corners of the earth. Millions of people of all ages, from all backgrounds and expertise from all over the world say Final Fantasy 7 is one of the greatest games of all time.

Thats why I said what I said. Because FF7 is one of the greatest games of all time as decided by the human race. Just who the fuck are you to say you know more about what makes a game good then 20 million people combined? What the fuck do you know?
You are nobody, you are meaningless, you are nothing and your opinion is shit.

In conclusion, Shut. The. Fuck. Up. and get a psychiatrist because you need help.

[Atari 5200]

So....about this store charging 72.00 on this game.....

[calthaer]

Please tell me this statement was some sort of joke.

No, it probably wasn't, and I can't say that I find the idea of "RPGs are televised CYOA books" to be too off-the-mark.

See, I didn't grow up on the NES per se - I grew up with the Apple ][ and those sorts of "RPGs." Bard's Tale, Ultima, Might & Magic, and so on.

Eventually, I played the original Final Fantasy & Dragon Warrior. I enjoyed 'em - but it wasn't quite the same. Took a break from RPGs for a long time (real life got in the way, and they suck up a lot of time), and sometime in college I revisited them on the PC - namely, with FFVII for the PC. I really liked it - a lot. Thought it was a great gaming experience. Went back and took on FF4j through emulators, and Chronotrigger.

Then at some point I started to play some of the PC games I'd missed, like Fallout. And, see, that's a whole different ballgame. JRPGs are terribly linear - calling them a televised CYOA is actually a little generous, given how few choices you actually get to make. I mean...go on a date with Tifa or Aeris - that's the best they could do with four discs of gameplay? That's the biggest choice I can make?

Western RPGs like Fallout, Morrowind / Oblivion, just about all of Bioware's games (especially Planescape: Torment, which is just about the greatest interactive story I've ever played) - those are something entirely different. There's way more freedom in those games - WAY more. You'll rarely see the ridiculous obstacles that artificially keep players on the train-rails of the game's story - things like guards standing at the bridge that say "Oh, you can't come across here yet! Things are...uh...under construction!" And I with my big fat sword can't chop off their heads and take a look anyways? C'mon. At least let me choose whether or not I want to go left or right - sure, maybe there's a big bad monster there, but who cares? I'll make my own mistakes and reload later if I have to (hopefully they'll give me the chance to see the danger & run before it gets too bad).

It's the difference between riding a train and driving a car.

JRPGs are train rides - you'll buy your ticket, get on the train, and go exactly where you want to go in exactly the same manner that you want to get there, every time - with only minor variations (like: what kind of seat you have on the train, maybe). You'll arrive at the train station in such-and-such city - not at the bakery in the center of town or at the park on the west side. And you really have no choice, but maybe for some people it's worth it - you can read a book during the ride, the scenery is probably nicer and you can watch it out the window if it's light out, there's rarely any traffic to speak of, and it can be a pleasant experience.

Western RPGs are like driving a car. You're in control. Sure, you're generally limited to asphalt roads with most cars, but you can choose to take detours and side trips anywhere you want. If you want to stop in a small town and take in the sights, you can - for as long as you want. The world is your oyster. Now, maybe they're still going to make you go to such-and-such a town, but how you get there is a process they usually give you a very wide degree of flexibility about. But: there's traffic, and you have to pay for gas, and it's generally more work.

And that's why, sometimes, JRPGs can have a little more in terms of dramatic storytelling (even if a lot of them ruin that with long, rambling narratives that could really stand to be a great deal tighter in their scope). Western RPGs are more broad, and sometimes sacrifice a bit of depth for that breadth - let's face it, the NPCs in Morrowind are flat-out droll sometimes (did that incessant "KEEP MOVING!" drive anyone else nuts?).

They're not even the same beast. It's patently obvious with something like the interview that some guys did at I think a GDC conference or something that had Molyneux from Lionhead and Muzyka from Bioware on the same panel with Sakaguchi who made the Final Fantasy series:

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/03/06/liveblogging-microsofts-the-evolution-of-rpg-development-pane/

These guys aren't even on the same page - they're not even in the same universe. It's two entirely different theories of game design. The JRPG "We want to make a story that is full of emotional connectivity - like a movie" vs. the Western "We want to engage players by giving them an entire world where they can discover their own story."

Anyways - of course with this kind of widely disparate stuff going on, people are going to look at a statement like "FF7 is the best game of all time and is on everyone's top 100" with a large degree of skepticism. It's because some people like to drive their car instead of just take a ride on the train. Obviously, lots of people like the train if FF7 is $70, because that was a good train ride - as far as train rides go, that is.

I personally like to play my games rather than just watch them (and push a few buttons to make the "movie" go forward), but I can see how some people might not, I guess. People like different things. That's life. We can deal with it. Like Aussie2B says, this is DigitPress, not "JEFFK'S GAEMING EMPRORIAMMMS!!!1" - we can act like adults and agree to disagree on game taste, and still have a good discussion about it.

EDIT: Apparently I didn't beat psychic1 to that last post...maybe we can't act like adults?

[PrototypeFC3S]

I've got two copies of this game buried somewhere in my closet. I dont think I would ever see the day that FFVII would be above $15 for a GH. $70 is just hype unless its a sealed first run. If square-soft was smart they'ed release this on the PS Store or something, that'll knock the price down to nothing. :)

[Daria]

Please tell me this statement was some sort of joke.

I'm not offended I like choose your own adventure books. Although I really think the video game equivilent would be text adventure games.... which I also like. But I see where calthaer's coming from. Western and Eastern RPGs are two entirely different genres branching from a single origin. Some people prefer the passive "sit back and watch the story unfold" gameplay, while others aggresively want to initiate their own story paths. I happen to like both.

Although as games in general become more cinematic I think we're really seeing less choice in Western RPGs, as they begin to resemble more and more their Eastern counterparts. I could replay Mass Effect, explore the planets in different order, use different characters, choose different skills. But in the end the cut-scenes play out the same, I'll explore the same dungeons, kill the same aliens, and watch nearly the same ending. Sure I may save the council this time around, but I know in the sequal it won't make a huge impact because it would require too much programmming, too many variables.


Obviously, no two gamers have the same "100 favorite games" list...but the big titles always have their disproportionate amount of ignorant hate directed their way. 9 times out of 10 these idiots haven't even played the game for more than a few minutes. It happens all the time here at DP and it annoys me, so I commented.

As for you, it could just as easily be said that most outspoken Final Fantasy 7 fans haven't played many other RPGs. I've known plenty of diehard fans, friends and family included, that play RPGs to the extent of the Final Fantasy series, and limit their "experimentation" to square published titles. For those people there's hundreds of games they haven't tried and may shove Final Fantasy 7 off their lists if they did.

But that wouldn't be fair, as many gamers have branched out and still love the game just as fervently. Just as some of us have played it through to the finish and still weren't impressed. It all boils down to a matter of taste, and it's not fair to fling around generalizations just because your opinion differs.

As for Psychic1... wow. Just... wow.

[Jimmy Yakapucci]

Thats why I said what I said. Because FF7 is one of the greatest games of all time as decided by the human race. Just who the fuck are you to say you know more about what makes a game good then 20 million people combined?

Let's see. Who exactly are these "20 million people"? And by the way, last time I checked, the human race was made up of a few more than 20 million people.


Famitsū readers
IGN editors from the US, UK and AUS
GameSpot
Game Informer editors
EGM editors
GamePro editors
GameFAQs visitors

I may be wrong, but somehow, I don't think that this adds up to 20 million. Also, if you look at who these people and places are. All I can say is, consider the source. Also, compare the number of video game players who own FF7 to the number of video game players who don't.



Just who the fuck are you to say you know more about what makes a game good then 20 million people combined? What the fuck do you know?
You are nobody, you are meaningless, you are nothing and your opinion is shit.

As for who I am, I am merely one of the many people that support the developers of these games by purchasing them and hopefully, in turn, letting them know what I would like to see more of.



In conclusion, Shut. The. Fuck. Up. and get a psychiatrist because you need help.

The only one that I see having some sort of mental episode because of this is you. I believe that everyone is fully entitled to have their own opinion about which games are good or bad. I may not agree with them, but hey, everyone is different. I personally don't enjoy or play most FPS games or any of the Grand Theft Auto franchise, but if someone or some group wants to put one or all of them on their top 100 list or call one of them the best game ever, go for it. If it really bothers you that much, then why not head over to GameFaqs since their visitors apparently agree with you and you can all sit there and stroke your collective egos for being so right. Either that or go and pleasure yourself in front of your shrine to FF7.

JY

[Rob2600]

Cracks me up when ignorant people dismiss animation as something for kids and kids alone. Lest we forget the amazing things Winsor McCay did with animation in the 1910's (http://youtube.com/watch?v=seOGEwx0NfQ). Full video here (http://youtube.com/watch?v=kcSp2ej2S00), an amazing illustrator, remember that entire sequence was drawn on sheets of rice paper glued to cardboard and then the negative was hand colored. Some of his other animation work (http://youtube.com/watch?v=yvzAJouHh7k), just because I feel like posting a link. :)

I agree. Thanks for posting those links. I'm a fan of old animation and grew up watching a lot of Max Fleischer's work (Betty Boop, Popeye the Sailor, Superman, Gulliver's Travels, etc.), in addition to Warner Bros. and MGM (Harman and Ising, Tex Avery, Fred Quimby, the good Hanna-Barbera, not the cheap Hanna-Barbera, Leon Schlesinger, Walter Lantz, etc.). I'm amazed by what people were able to achieve by hand more than 65 years ago.


Buh Bye Dickhead!


Just who the fuck are you to say you know more about what makes a game good then 20 million people combined? What the fuck do you know?
You are nobody, you are meaningless, you are nothing and your opinion is shit.

In conclusion, Shut. The. Fuck. Up. and get a psychiatrist because you need help.

Wow. How is this guy not banned already?

[James8BitStar]

I'm not offended I like choose your own adventure books. Although I really think the video game equivilent would be text adventure games.... which I also like. But I see where calthaer's coming from. Western and Eastern RPGs are two entirely different genres branching from a single origin. Some people prefer the passive "sit back and watch the story unfold" gameplay, while others aggresively want to initiate their own story paths. I happen to like both.

Although as games in general become more cinematic I think we're really seeing less choice in Western RPGs, as they begin to resemble more and more their Eastern counterparts. I could replay Mass Effect, explore the planets in different order, use different characters, choose different skills. But in the end the cut-scenes play out the same, I'll explore the same dungeons, kill the same aliens, and watch nearly the same ending. Sure I may save the council this time around, but I know in the sequal it won't make a huge impact because it would require too much programmming, too many variables.

The problem here is that none of this is true for RPGs alone. In fact, if this makes RPGs "choose your own adventure" novels then it does so for practically every video game ever made except maybe MMOs and Koei strategy games.

Just pop in Ninja Gaiden II on the NES for example. You can't play the levels in any order you want, the enemies are always the same, and the cutscenes and ending won't play out a different way no matter what you do. But would anyone call Ninja Gaiden II a "choose your own adventure book"?

[Daria]

The problem here is that none of this is true for RPGs alone. In fact, if this makes RPGs "choose your own adventure" novels then it does so for practically every video game ever made except maybe MMOs and Koei strategy games.

Just pop in Ninja Gaiden II on the NES for example. You can't play the levels in any order you want, the enemies are always the same, and the cutscenes and ending won't play out a different way no matter what you do. But would anyone call Ninja Gaiden II a "choose your own adventure book"?

I wasn't arguing for the CYOAB anaolgy. Just that Western and Eastern RPGs are not altogether unalike.

[Rob2600]

if this makes RPGs "choose your own adventure" novels then it does so for practically every video game ever made except maybe MMOs and Koei strategy games.

Just pop in Ninja Gaiden II on the NES for example. You can't play the levels in any order you want, the enemies are always the same, and the cutscenes and ending won't play out a different way no matter what you do. But would anyone call Ninja Gaiden II a "choose your own adventure book"?

There's a difference though. In an action game, the player controls the character and does battle with the enemies directly, but in a role-playing game, the player just navigates a series of menus.

[Dire 51]

Thats why I said what I said. Because FF7 is one of the greatest games of all time as decided by the human race. Just who the fuck are you to say you know more about what makes a game good then 20 million people combined? What the fuck do you know?
You are nobody, you are meaningless, you are nothing and your opinion is shit.

In conclusion, Shut. The. Fuck. Up. and get a psychiatrist because you need help.
To echo Rob2600: "Wow. How is this guy not banned already?"

Is this a typical die-hard FF7 fanboy? I've only encountered a couple over the years, believe it or not. The ones I met weren't this bad, but I've heard stories - some of which I thought were greatly exaggerrated. Maybe they weren't.

[Aussie2B]

I've had much, much worse directed at me by Final Fantasy VII fans. I've had probably every curse word in the English language thrown at me, and one guy even said he wanted to stab me in the face. :P All because I wrote a negative Final Fantasy VII review (which wasn't even a hate review, just a presentation of why I thought the game was below average, not awful or anything). These guys take this stuff PERSONAL.

[Dire 51]

I've had much, much worse directed at me by Final Fantasy VII fans. I've had probably every curse word in the English language thrown at me, and one guy even said he wanted to stab me in the face. :P All because I wrote a negative Final Fantasy VII review (which wasn't even a hate review, just a presentation of why I thought the game was below average, not awful or anything). These guys take this stuff PERSONAL.
Damn. Just damn. Makes me surprised I never got flamed for announcing that FF7 was overrated on the OPCFG. I mean, I didn't get one single piece of hatemail (or even annoyedmail), and I was expecting it when I wrote that article. Not encouraging it, of course, but fully expecting it based on what I've heard.

[YoshiM]

Wow, psychic1's posts in this thread seems to be the classic example of The Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19). I've read about them, seen pictures even in National Geographic, but never really seen on in the wild....

Even though it will whack this thread off course more, I feel I should retort to psychic1's statement. All those votes and decisions by gaming journalists and such are, wait for it, subjective. No matter how many votes there are, it's still opinion not fact. Water turns to ice when frozen: fact. Fire is hot: fact. Downing ten gallons of Draino will kill you: fact. Final Fantasy better than Phantasy Star: opinion. Hot dogs are better than cheese burgers: opinion.

I bet you might site sales figures as a way to "show me the errors of my ways" (as people like you usually do). Yeah we can look at sales figures as some sort of "fact" that it's a great game because it sold a lot of copies but using that same logic, how do you explain "Enter the Matrix", which sold a LOT of copies even though it was a complete and utter broken game?

In my humble opinion, FF7 wasn't all that great. When the game arrived on the PSX there was a gigantic marketing blitz on TV. We were bombarded by the gorgeous CG-is this the future? I took a chance and gave it a rent. Man was I disappointed-fugly in game graphics, a slow combat system, the adherence to the old "unavoidable" random encounter (I got my fill of those with Phantasy Star II and III, thank you very much), the distraction of the snapping in and out from CG to flat-shaded poly city and a story I really couldn't get into. I got bored. It felt like I was working my way to the next cut scene. I credit the marketing that helped catapult the game and also video games more into the mainstream but in my mind it's not even close to my own "top XX games of all time".

While I don't have the credentials as one of the chaps at IGN or one of the many posters at Gamefaqs with multiple log ins to vote, my opinion means shit to me because it's MY money I'm spending on a game. If that makes me stupid or a tasteless gamer in your book, so be it. But then I can take a page from your lemming-manual and ask who are you anyway, Mr./Ms. 70 odd posts? Why should your opinion of others' opinions matter over one of the many regulars here?

[heybtbm]

Why do people respond to trolls in the first place? It's obvious this guy is either joking or mentally ill. Breaking down his post quote by quote, trying to negate each comment just validates this guy's ramblings. This is basic internet common sense.

[Savedman]

.....Thats why I said what I said. Because FF7 is one of the greatest games of all time as decided by the human race. Just who the fuck are you to say you know more about what makes a game good then 20 million people combined? What the fuck do you know?
You are nobody, you are meaningless, you are nothing and your opinion is shit.

In conclusion, Shut. The. Fuck. Up. and get a psychiatrist because you need help.

Ummm.....wow. Dude you should really try some herbal tea or meditation or something. You're gonna blow a gasket.

[rpepper9]

Funny how one person's observation about the going rate of a game can spiral into a argument of which is the best. With sweeping generalizations thrown in for good measure!

Wouldn't the world be a great place if the only thing anyone had to argue about was which RPG was the best? Now wouldn't that be great?

[jb143]

Actually..."Fire is hot" is subjective as well. But other than that. I completely agree with you. But having said that I can understand why so many people would like this game and also be willing to spend so much for it. I hate RPG's but can still stand to play FFVII. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a huge fan or anything but there's just something...different...about this game that sets it apart. It seems to be the same way with any "love it or hate it" things. Whether it be music, movies, books, companies or games.

I should also add that I personally would never pay so much for this game and If I ever found it for cheap I'd be putting it right on Ebay.

But yeah...wasn't there this same exact topic in the ebay forum only a week ago???

[Rob2600]

FF7 wasn't all that great. When the game arrived on the PSX there was a gigantic marketing blitz on TV. We were bombarded by the gorgeous CG-is this the future? I took a chance and gave it a rent. Man was I disappointed-fugly in game graphics, a slow combat system, the adherence to the old "unavoidable" random encounter (I got my fill of those with Phantasy Star II and III, thank you very much), the distraction of the snapping in and out from CG to flat-shaded poly city and a story I really couldn't get into. I got bored. It felt like I was working my way to the next cut scene. I credit the marketing that helped catapult the game and also video games more into the mainstream but in my mind it's not even close to my own "top XX games of all time".

YoshiM, you summed up my feelings perfectly.


Out of curiosity, how much do people currently pay for the Windows version?

EDIT: To answer my own question, I just looked on Half.com and Amazon.com and the Windows version is listed for $35 to $95.

[Savedman]

Funny how one person's observation about the going rate of a game can spiral into a argument of which is the best. With sweeping generalizations thrown in for good measure!

Wouldn't the world be a great place if the only thing anyone had to argue about was which RPG was the best? Now wouldn't that be great?

Or at how easily one might be offended if thier opinion is not agreed with by everyone.;-)

[Vectorman0]

To clarify since it apparently wasn't obvious enough, I wasn't being serious in my last post. The only way I knew how to respond to such an asinine comment was to reply in an equally asinine way.

As for the rest of you I didn't state my opinion when I said FF7 was one of the greatest games of all time. Unlike you I am not so arrogant to think my opinion actually has that much value to make such a claim.

Famitsū readers voted Final Fantasy 7 2nd in their top 100 favorite games of all time.

IGN editors from the US, UK and AUS all collaborated and voted FF7 76th in their top 100 games of all time feature.

GameSpot - FF7 is listed among 80 other titles in their Greatest Games of All Time feature.

Game Informer editors voted FF7 10th in their top 100 games of all time feature.

EGM editors voted FF7 the 6th most important video game of all time.

GamePro editors voted FF7 14th in their top 52 most important video games of all time feature.

GameFAQs visitors voted Final Fantasy 7 as the best game ever...twice.

There you have expert and amateur critics, professional opinions as well as gamers opinions. The overall gaming community from all four corners of the earth. Millions of people of all ages, from all backgrounds and expertise from all over the world say Final Fantasy 7 is one of the greatest games of all time.

Thats why I said what I said. Because FF7 is one of the greatest games of all time as decided by the human race. Just who the fuck are you to say you know more about what makes a game good then 20 million people combined? What the fuck do you know?
You are nobody, you are meaningless, you are nothing and your opinion is shit.

In conclusion, Shut. The. Fuck. Up. and get a psychiatrist because you need help.

I suggest you take it easy, leave this thread and don't ever talk about FF7's popularity every again. Otherwise, you are going to inevitably end up getting yourself banned. You are very close to that point as it is.

[Flack]

Just who the fuck are you to say you know more about what makes a game good then 20 million people combined? What the fuck do you know?
You are nobody, you are meaningless, you are nothing and your opinion is shit. In conclusion, Shut. The. Fuck. Up. and get a psychiatrist because you need help.

Just who the fuck are you to talk to fellow forum members with such a lack of respect?

Enjoy your seven-day break from the forums. Come back with a bit more respect for your fellow posters, or don't come back.

[SeverThe7th]

You are nobody, you are meaningless, you are nothing and your opinion is shit.


I couldnt have said it better.
It sucks to have to live up to the image of somebody with meaning...
but we all gotta take shits.


FF7 was released a the time of a very significant and influential transition, basically the last major revolution in gaming (??) Yes 2d->-3d.

Im definitely partially biased as it is my introduction to 3d rpgs (well 4d, if you include time). As id imagine it is for a fair few people, being an early rpg for psx an all (AFAIK). So yes, i say sentimental attachment plays it part.

Square did have time to hone their craft, back in those days, when the 'uber elite' new machine was on just on the horizon. So their reputation worked in favour too.

These are the reasons i assume its overrated, id say things probably would be much different if ff7 wasnt one of the first rpgs for psx.

..and no i'm not trying to fan the flames.

[Dire 51]

I have only two things to add here:

Yoshi, that whole post was great. To again echo Rob2600, you summed up my feelings perfectly.

Flack, thank you.

[James8BitStar]

I wasn't arguing for the CYOAB anaolgy. Just that Western and Eastern RPGs are not altogether unalike.

Oh I'll agree to that. That's been true for a long time. Outside of the whole freedom vs. linearity thing the battle systems, mana systems, types and uses of equipment etc. tend to be much the same.


There's a difference though. In an action game, the player controls the character and does battle with the enemies directly, but in a role-playing game, the player just navigates a series of menus.

You could make the same case for Romance of the Three Kingdoms ("you just navigate a bunch of menus"). Would that be a CYOAB as well?

Just to take a step back and prevent this from going too far afield, the thing is it always irks me when people act like RPGs have inherently less gameplay just because of HOW the game is played (I'm not claiming that you're doing that). People in general seem to have this idea that menu-based gameplay or any other situation where you don't have complete, direct total control over your characters isn't really gameplay. On some forums, people even take it to the extreme that no direct control means no skill involved.

And yet, how is "navigating a bunch of menus" any LESS playing a game? Sure, it doesn't rely on your hand-eye coordination and ability to make precise leaps and sword-cuts, but instead it relies heavily on your ability to plan an effective attack, defense, and manage your resources. Granted, recently a lot of RPGs seem to be little more than cutscenes with gameplay thrown in just to justify calling it a video game, but I've seen that happening in just about every genre since the PS2.

[Rob2600]

it always irks me when people act like RPGs have inherently less gameplay just because of HOW the game is played (I'm not claiming that you're doing that). People in general seem to have this idea that menu-based gameplay or any other situation where you don't have complete, direct total control over your characters isn't really gameplay. ...

how is "navigating a bunch of menus" any LESS playing a game? Sure, it doesn't rely on your hand-eye coordination and ability to make precise leaps and sword-cuts, but instead it relies heavily on your ability to plan an effective attack, defense, and manage your resources.

I know. RPGs tend to focus more on strategy and management, while action games focus more on reflexes and coordination. I was just pointing out that they're two different styles of gameplay. :)

[James8BitStar]

Yep, they certainly are. I just hope it remains recognized that it IS gameplay.

[The 1 2 P]

Such emotions. We all must be real gamers or something:)