Ebay lowers listing/gallery fees and ups the final value fees!!!!

[xfrumx]

This seemed good until I saw the final value fees up to $25 have went up over 3%; http://pages.ebay.com/sell/update08/basic/ http://pages.ebay.com/sell/update08/feature/

[secretvampire]

What a complete joke. Drop the listing fee by a nickel or two and jack up the final value fee by several percentage points which is WAY more costly in the long run. Glad I'm moving more and more of my business off of the ripoff that is Ebay.

[dave2236]

holy crap I liked the free galery photos but 8.5% final value fees on the first $25.

[rik1138]

holy crap I liked the free galery photos but 8.5% final value fees on the first $25.

That just covers that cost... Reducing the listing fee by 40 cents (with gallery, which everyone should be using anyway), and increasing FVF on the first $25 to cover it. That's 65 cents max, so it's an increase of a quarter if your item sells for $25. If it sells for $10 or 15, you are saving money...

[-_-Nintendo-_-]

Don't forget the new Feedback changes:

http://pages.ebay.com/services/forum/new.html

Want to leave negatives for bad buyers? Yes? Well I am sorry, but it seems that's a thing of the past :(

With all these changes, how are sellers even going to stay in business?

[rik1138]

Don't forget the new Feedback changes:

http://pages.ebay.com/services/forum/new.html

Want to leave negatives for bad buyers? Yes? Well I am sorry, but it seems that's a thing of the past :(

With all these changes, how are sellers even going to stay in business?

Hopefully, only the _GOOD_ sellers will...

If a buyer leaves a neg, but doesn't dispute the final value credit, the neg gets removed (that's the protection they've chosen). So, if he didn't have a legit reason to leave a neg, it goes away. If a final value credit happens more than 3 or 4 times to any one buyer, he gets suspended.

Sellers that really are scumbags will get hammered with neg feedback, and the buyers don't have to worry about getting negative retaliatory feedback.

It'll probably cause problems at first, but if we are all lucky, it might actually prove useful in the end...

Rik

[FantasiaWHT]

Jeez, what an absolute joke. Both changes. Giving people a piece of penny candy with one hand and using the other to gouge out another asshole. Real pleasant, ebay, thanks.

[carlcarlson]

Why in the hell can't buyers get negative feedback? As someone who has sold to more than 700 people I can say with 100% certainty that this is a bad idea. Just paying for an item does not mean someone should get a positive feedback. That's the first step, yes, but a transaction can turn ugly really fast a buyer wants it to. Yet another step to help buyers but screw sellers.

And why is feedback that is more than one year old worthless now?

I have been using ebay for over eight years and it just seems to get worse and worse.

[Cornelius]

Seems to me the feedback change will suck a bit for good sellers, but will hurt the bad sellers (of which there are many) quite a bit more. Since feedback is worthless now anyways, I think a change is in order. Seems like sellers should now be able to refuse bids from buyers with less than 5 or 10 feedback, since a bad buyer could rack up a number of transactions and still sit at 0 feedback.

As to feedback expiring, well, I don't think people really care whether you have 100 at 100% or 1000 at 99%, so I doubt it will matter much. In fact, as it is now I often prefer to buy from those 10 or 20 rated sellers with perfect feedback, since they are less likely to have mis-represented something (intentionally or not) and less likely to lose it (basically, they are more like me as a hobby buyer/seller).

[mlambert890]

Its funny... as someone who has really only ever bought on eBay, Im glad to see these changes. As someone pointed out above, the fee changes barely cause a dent (the volume of complaints show that sellers are either not doing the math or dont fully understand the change)

The feedback changes, I think, are great. As a buyer, Id like for all of you professional ebayers here to articulate to me exactly what recourse I have ever had on eBay when one of your bretheren are bad? (which has happened to me and nearly every buyer at some point in the past)

You get to leave a neg feedback. Wow. Thats great. Meanwhile, your money is gone, you may have a wrong product or no product at all, and the seller can really return the favor by hitting YOU with a negative feedback right back. eBay has never been willing to do anything about unscrupulous sellers unless they are out and out criminals and taking it to court is generally ridiculous unless its a big ticket item.

I've lost at least a couple of hundred on jerkoff sellers over the years. SOME kind of protection is long overdue.

Cornelius - a seller that doesnt like the bidder they are seeing can always just end the auction early right?

If ebay is so horrible, then set up your own store somewhere and see if you end up better off. Seems a lot of people have made a lot of incredibly easy money off of ebay (a monkey can sell on ebay - big difference from setting up your own store), but now begrudge them any kind of increase in fees to cover operational cost increases. As a professional seller, you're really a partner in an online business. At the point you can do it cheaper yourself, they lose. But I suspect they did their homework and the real numbers on this are still very attractive to sellers.

[jonjandran]

As a former Power Seller with 1950 feedback I have to say I am THRILLED with the feedback change.

It's about GD time a buyer can leave a negative without fear of retaliation.

Only sellers that leave retaliatory feedback will be the ones complaining. :moon:

[ryborg]

There's another, bigger thread going on in Off-Topic (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=112228), so if you've read my responses there, I might be repeating myself.


As someone pointed out above, the fee changes barely cause a dent (the volume of complaints show that sellers are either not doing the math or dont fully understand the change)

Wrong. I have done the math for several different common scenarios I run into on a daily basis.

Item starting at 9.99, ends at 17:

CURRENT FEES:

listing fee: .40
gallery: .35
FVF: .89

total: $1.64

FUTURE FEES:

listing fee: .35
gallery: free
FVF: 1.49

total: $1.84

Difference: $.20

Item starting at 24.99, ends at 32:

CURRENT FEES:

listing fee: .60
gallery: .35
FVF: 1.31 + .23 = 1.54

total: $2.49

FUTURE FEES:

listing fee: .55
gallery: free
FVF: 2.19 + .25 = 2.44

total: $2.99

Difference: $.50

Item starting at .01, ends at $80:

CURRENT FEES:

listing fee: .20
gallery: .35
FVF: 1.31 + 1.79 = 3.10

total: $3.65

FUTURE FEES:

listing fee: .15
gallery: free
FVF: 2.19 + 1.93 = 4.12

total: $4.27

Difference: $.62

For a mid-range seller who typically has ~50 items listed per week, that's at least a 50 cent increase per item, times 50 is $25 lost per week! Fifty cents here and there isn't such a big deal if you sell one or two things per month, but when it's a relied-upon source of revenue, it hurts.


As a buyer, Id like for all of you professional ebayers here to articulate to me exactly what recourse I have ever had on eBay when one of your bretheren are bad? (which has happened to me and nearly every buyer at some point in the past)Pay with Paypal and if the seller is unwilling to work with you, file a dispute and begin the chargeback process if necessary. Part of my job is buying things to resell, and over the last several years, I haven't lost one cent to scams or bad sellers as a buyer.

Even if you pay with a check, most banks offer a check stopping procedure. There is really no excuse to ever be taken as a buyer on ebay. The protection and security is already there. As a seller, not so much...


I've lost at least a couple of hundred on jerkoff sellers over the years. SOME kind of protection is long overdue.How are you paying? Cash in an envelope? Are you aware that Paypal exists? I really don't understand this.


Seems a lot of people have made a lot of incredibly easy money off of ebay (a monkey can sell on ebay - big difference from setting up your own store)Statements like this make it obvious you've never sold a single item on ebay before, even if you hadn't told us already. "Easy money" only comes to those sellers who truly understand the market and have a good way of consistently getting high-quality items to sell. There are thousands of sellers out there who make next to nothing, or in some cases, lose money because they don't understand what they're doing or how the process works.

Part of the problem is that ebay really is the only way to sell unique non-Amazon-style products. It's just like gas prices; ebay can jack their fees up, and a majority of sellers will just suck it up, do what they can to make up the lost money, and deal with it.

[ryborg]

It's about GD time a buyer can leave a negative without fear of retaliation.
Only sellers that leave retaliatory feedback will be the ones complaining. :moon:

Absolutely not. In the other thread, esquire said it perfectly, so I'm going to quote him here:


You must not sell a lot on ebay. Here are some prime examples of buyers deserving a negative, other than non-payment:
not understanding what they bidded on / failure to read auction description before bidding
late payment
wrong form of payment
arguing with seller over terms specified in the auction after the auction ends but prior to payment, such as:
payment method
payment terms
mode of shipping
cost of shipping
failing to respond to checkouts, invoices, emails or other forms of communications
sending harassing emails to the seller, i.e. flooding the seller with emails
sending emails with rude or derogatory comments
sending physically threatening or violent emails to the seller
whining, complaining or harassing the seller, including by leaving negative feedback, when their item doesn't arrive 3-4 days after the end of auction
leaving negative feedback without first contacting the seller
lying about the condition of the item upon receipt
filing bogus or falsified paypal claims
arguing with the seller post-delivery over handling charges added to S&H that are otherwise already specified in the auction termsI have experienced nearly all of the above, save for the falsified paypal claims.

All of these, IMO, are justified reasons to leave neutral or negative feedback. Moreover, as a seller, I want to know who I am dealing with, and the only way to do so is to allow sellers to leave negative feedback if a buyer cannot act in an otherwise "civil manner".

[The 1 2 P]

I don't think trhe new feedback changes are going to work very well.

[jonjandran]

The point is that giving a negative feedback to a buyer is USELESS !!!!

A buyer will still bid on your auctions or use your BIN option. Unless you continually monitor your auctions there is nothing you can do about it.

And by far the VAST majority of negative feedback to buyers is just retaliatory. That is a FACT that can not be disputed. Look at almost EVERY Power Seller and you will see that they ALWAYS leave negatives if they receive them.

The old feedback system didn't work and that also is a FACT.

[Wookie]

Don't kid yourselves: this is all about the money. It's no coincidence that the fee increase follows only days after ebay reported lowered earnings dragged down by the Skype fiasco, slowed growth, and poor prospects for the coming year.

You can't change ebay's behavior by complaining about it: you have to hit them in thier wallets. Pick a day (I suggest 2/20, the day the new fees start) and boycott ebay. Don't bid on or sell anything that day. Or for a week, or a month. Try selling your items on craigslist (at, say, 20% below normal ebay prices to account for the no fee listings and no shipping hassles) then only list on ebay if that doesn't work. Sell here on DP.

Fight back, or quit bitching.

[FantasiaWHT]

The point is that giving a negative feedback to a buyer is USELESS !!!!

A buyer will still bid on your auctions or use your BIN option. Unless you continually monitor your auctions there is nothing you can do about it.

And by far the VAST majority of negative feedback to buyers is just retaliatory. That is a FACT that can not be disputed. Look at almost EVERY Power Seller and you will see that they ALWAYS leave negatives if they receive them.

The old feedback system didn't work and that also is a FACT.

#1 - Saying something is a fact does not make it so.
#2 - If giving a negative feedback to buyers is useless, then why do buyers care if they get retaliatory feedback?

I've always felt that a better way to solve the retaliatory feedback "problem" is by keeping the feedback you've received hidden from you until you leave feedback. Bam - problem solved - nobody can ever leave "feedback on feedback".

[kaedesdisciple]

Don't kid yourselves: this is all about the money. It's no coincidence that the fee increase follows only days after ebay reported lowered earnings dragged down by the Skype fiasco, slowed growth, and poor prospects for the coming year.

You can't change ebay's behavior by complaining about it: you have to hit them in thier wallets. Pick a day (I suggest 2/20, the day the new fees start) and boycott ebay. Don't bid on or sell anything that day. Or for a week, or a month. Try selling your items on craigslist (at, say, 20% below normal ebay prices to account for the no fee listings and no shipping hassles) then only list on ebay if that doesn't work. Sell here on DP.

Fight back, or quit bitching.

If only things like this actually worked. As long as people continue to make their living on ebay, then ebay will continue to survive off of the incumbent fees.

[Wookie]

If only things like this actually worked. As long as people continue to make their living on ebay, then ebay will continue to survive off of the incumbent fees.

ebay, like most businesses, cares more about it's stock price than it's profits, and stock price depends on the *anticipation* of profit growth. Boycotts, even limited ones, scare the hell out of investors. A few years back, ebay was forced to back off increased store fees when several store owners went public with thier intention to abandon ebay. No reason the same thing can't work here, but it won't work if you don't try.

[Cornelius]

Cornelius - a seller that doesnt like the bidder they are seeing can always just end the auction early right?
I'm not sure, I'd have to read the TOS again to see the official position on that. Of course, they can use the 'item no longer available' thing, but that seems shady at best, and something good sellers avoid.

[esquire]

The point is that giving a negative feedback to a buyer is USELESS !!!!

A buyer will still bid on your auctions or use your BIN option. Unless you continually monitor your auctions there is nothing you can do about it.

And by far the VAST majority of negative feedback to buyers is just retaliatory. That is a FACT that can not be disputed. Look at almost EVERY Power Seller and you will see that they ALWAYS leave negatives if they receive them.

The old feedback system didn't work and that also is a FACT.

So why even have feedback at all?

Think about it. A seller cannot leave a negative feedback (even if a NPB), but he can elect to leave no feedback at all. A buyer who gets a NPB will have any negative feedback left for the seller removed.

So what is the whole point? To make make people feel all warm and fuzzy inside by only being able to leave positive feedback?

The point is this - ebay is tring to make more money by luring first time buyers to make repeated purchases on ebay. Pure and simple. Ebay is about volume. They don't care about the average sellers like most of us here on DP. They cater to the Power Sellers and buyers, because the more items that sell, the more $$$$ they make. Take a look at each and every change that is being made to ebay as of 2/1/08, and you'll see the bigger picture.

I never understood why people got all bent out of shape over receiving a negative feedback, even if it were an unjustified retaliatory one. Whoop-de-freaking-do. So you have a negative, get over it. The majority of your positive transactions will surely outweigh it. I think these people are a little narcissistic if they think someone is going to read over each and persons feedback. Bottom line to me is as long as you have a 85% or better feedback, without multiple negs in the last 30 days, I am going to do business with you on ebay.

I pretty much know the retaliatory feedback sellers out there anyways, and I do not want to business with them anyways. Changing the fact that they can't leave you a neg is going to change the fact that they (the Seller) are screwing you in the first place - e.g., the whole reason why are leaving them a neg in the first place, such as the item is not as described or pictured.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Wait a sec.

We can't leave negs... but can we still leave neutrals? A well worded neutral can sting as much as a well worded neg.

[ryborg]

Pick a day (I suggest 2/20, the day the new fees start) and boycott ebay. Don't bid on or sell anything that day.

This stuff never works. People try it all the time with fuel consumption, but just like how people will simply fill their tank on 2/21 instead of 2/20, buyers and sellers will just go back to business as usual the next day.


The old feedback system didn't work and that also is a FACT.

:roll:


I'm not sure, I'd have to read the TOS again to see the official position on that. Of course, they can use the 'item no longer available' thing, but that seems shady at best, and something good sellers avoid.

I'm not exactly sure what you are talking about, but you can end an auction early any time, either with no bidder or with the current high bidder. You can also cancel the high bidder's bid and add him to your blocked bidder list, if you really don't like his record.


Wait a sec.

We can't leave negs... but can we still leave neutrals? A well worded neutral can sting as much as a well worded neg.

No, read it straight from ebay themselves:


Buyers will only be able to receive positive Feedback.

[ryborg]

Bottom line to me is as long as you have a 85% or better feedback, without multiple negs in the last 30 days, I am going to do business with you on ebay.

I'm in agreement with essentially everything you've said on this ebay topic, and this one rings especially true. Seller feedback percentage is rarely the best indicator of how a seller performs. To really see how a seller does business, you need to actually read the individual comments in his feedback profile; numbers aren't everything.

Take a look at this guy. (http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=to_the_highest_bidder&ftab=AllFeedback) I did business with him many times, and the items were always shipped promptly and safely, but his total feedback percentage is *awful* because stupid buyers never read more than the title of the auction. He sold aftermarket "for repair" electronics and used video games and always described exactly the problems with each item (when applicable).

On the other hand, there are plenty of sellers who are basically terrible at selling, sellers who sell obvious bootlegs, obscenely slow shipping sellers, and so on. Who would you rather deal with?

[alexkidd2000]

The only problem I have is that for a seller like myself who only sells stuff once in awhile I have had to deal with some terrible buyers. Now any buyer can leave bad feedback for the tiniest reason or no reason at all with no fear of retruibution.

[tkusina]

#2 - If giving a negative feedback to buyers is useless, then why do buyers care if they get retaliatory feedback?



Because when/if i do go to sell something and my % is 80, who is going to buy from me?

Most people will look at that number and not even both reading the comments.

[FantasiaWHT]

Because when/if i do go to sell something and my % is 80, who is going to buy from me?

Most people will look at that number and not even both reading the comments.

Yes, I agree. But then giving to feedback to buyers ISN'T useless.