I wish we could go BACK to carts damnit!

[zektor]

I have been collecting games/systems for the past 20 or so years, and I have loved every minute of it. But, I am truly saddened that the last cartridge based system (I am talking home system...not GBA) is the N64. I just don't like cd/dvd based game media. It's like playing "operation" when you remove the game from its case...you must be ever so careful. And even when you are as careful as you can possibly be, lo and behold...a scratch! And forget about buying a used cd/dvd based game. Unless it's sealed your chances of getting one with an imperfection are high. Even the system's themselves will need to be replaced in no time because of movable parts, the laser motor wearing out, what have you. I just can't bring myself to invest/collect in this type of media. I know it is cheaper for the game manufacterers to produce games this way, but is it better for the end user? I say a big NO. I'll stick to cart based game buying/collecting...at least until a better/more reliable media form is introduced. Thoughts?

[simonbelmont7]

.....exactly why my PS2 is covered in dust and never gets played, and my NES & Genesis have to be cooled down occasionally =)
Mark

[Gunstarhero]

I agree with that, I mean there's just nothing special about playing games on CD based systems. I don't care if the best game ever made is on one of the new systems, I just won't feel the need to even bother anymore with it. I had a PS2 for about 1 month, then traded it away. I won't go back. Theres something nostalgic about playing and collecting cart systems, even for the N64, and I'm glad Nintendo went one last time with carts, when everyone said it was the wrong move.

Collecting for these systems is nothing special either, with CD games there seems to be an endless supply of every game. I know there are a couple exceptions out there, but with CD burners and mod chips, someone can have an entire collection of CD games for whatever it costs to buy CDR's. Big deal. Not only is there nothing nostalgic about collecting CD games, theres nothing cool or unique about the way it displays itself. If its in a Jewel case, then it just blends in to look like regular audio CD's, if its a newer DVD game, then it looks just like your DVD movie collection. It's not like 2600 carts, where there are about 20 types of cartridge shape, those look really cool on display. And like you said Zektor, neither the media, nor the players are reliable enough to count on for use in the future, due to the mechanical nature of the machines, and the delicacy of the media format.

To each his own, but I'm sticking with carts probably to the end. I had my time with PS1 & PS2, and its just not worth it. Hopefully in the future there will be something totally unique that will revolutionize gaming. Something thats neither cart or cd, and it won't require the use of your hands( I can already tell I'll have problems with my wrists and hands in the future).

[kainemaxwell]

When it came to most cart games, glammer and flasiness didn't count, it as mostly about the gameplay.

[Captain Wrong]

One of the previous comments is not like the others... :roll:


To get to the matter at hand, the thing that really gets me about disc based games is load times. It annoys me greatly that we're still getting games that load and load and load. I've been playing Stuntman PS2 and was really getting frustrated with the load times because it's one of those games where you screw up and will want to restart that level ASAP, not wait through 20-30 seconds of loading.

When the N64 was still kicking, if a game was avaliable on that platform and PSX (like Tony Hawk) I'd probably spring for the N64 version so I didn't have to wait through loading. I'm impatient. I don't want to wait. You'd think with CD based consoles being old as they are now, they'd have this loading time thing whipped.

I also share your concern with the long term viability of the media, but I look at it this way, I have a wall of audio CDs dating as far back as 1984 and they all still play and considering I won't buy a used game CD if it's beat up, I think I'll be ok there.

[digitalpress]

I'm in complete agreement with everything said here so far, except for maybe the "glammer and flasiness" which is stumping even my trusty dictionary at the moment. But yeah - there's something just so "right" about gaming on a cartridge, and from a collector's point of view there's really no comparing CD-based stuff to carts.

I'll play just about anything, but there will always be a special place in my heart for the cartridge games, and they will always be displayed with the most pride in my collection.

[samuraiX]

Neo Geo :P

But seriously, I too miss the cart based systems but I don't mind the switch as much now that CD drives are loading faster. At least we now get awesome quality movies.

As for the future, It would be cool if they went to some form of memory card kinda like they use in palms.... guess time will tell.

[WiseSalesman]

Before you all rip into me for what I am about to say, I just want to make it known that I love cartridges. The reason I originally went with an N64 before a psx or saturn was BECAUSE it used carts.

That said, however, my wallet is certianly much happier that we've moved on. If I remember correctly, cartridges can hold a nigh unlimited amount of space. It jsut depends on if you want to pay for all that space. All in all, I think CD and DVD based media is BETTER for the end user. I buy most of my games used, and I've never had one just not work. And as long as you're not trying to, I don't know, shave and put your game in the system at the same time, I don't think chances of damaging the game are as high as you say. I've played the hell out of my FF Tactics, and it was used when I bought it. No problems so far!

[bargora]

:duh:

Me too. Carts are really cool. How do they fit all that game into that little plastic box? For some reason, carts just seem magical somehow, much more than discs.

Discs get cheap a lot faster than carts, though. Yes, the OLD carts are cheap, but they've had a lot more time to get cheap. Aren't we all still waiting for the N64 carts to drop?

The only used discs I've bought that didn't work were copies of HOTD2 and Iron Aces for the Dreamcast, which is a notoriously picky system anyway. And I've got over 300 games on disc for various systems.

The funny thing is that I remember the first time I saw an optical disc being used as a storage medium on some spy show on TV, years and years ago. I remember thinking "wow, that's really cool". So optical discs seemed like THE WAVE OF THE FUTURE to me. But now, with with the Sega CD being gone and buried, and the PSX shuffling off to the grave, discs have potentially crossed over into RETRO-MODERN or MODERN-RETRO or what-have-you. Which I think is cool, somehow. Now I have cognitive dissonance. And yes, I have an aesthetic appreciation for disc games and packaging.

All I'm sayin' is: Don't Hate The Disc.

Now the disc-player is another thing, altogether...

[Eternal Champion]

I have NES, Genesis, and SNES, so nothing remotely modern. When CD media were first being used--Sega CD--I was excited because it meant TONS more memory space. Of course, that translated into lots of digitized cinema scenes. Woo-hoo. :roll:
I think saying that carts were the wrong choice for N64 is going a little far (responding to what was said at the time--and I think that was because cartridges were viewed as "passe", outmoded, whereas CDs were shiny, y'know, futuristic :roll: )--I think they did just fine, although if you have to get an additional supplementary memory cartridge for a game like Zelda, something's wrong.
I have CDs and DVDs, and if you're careful (c'mon, it's not that hard), and keep them in their cases, no problems. Used is another matter...
As I have been collecting NES, Genny and SNES, those games are now old, up to a decade or more. CD media are hard to find in good shape second-hand...just walk into any second-hand CD shop--CD Warehouse, I'm looking at you...so for collecting, cartridges are much better. If more stores would ONLY take used media with FEW scratches, maybe people would treat their stuff better!!

But if CD media have such huge amounts of memory, why not? Is load-time still an issue on GCN?
It seems to me that on Playstation most designers used the extra memory for superfluous FVM scenes...take that shit out and how much of a game would Final Fantasy VII actually be?

The mechanical issue sounds like a problem down the road...cartridge pin-connectors post-NES last a LONG time and are relatively easy to replace (if you can find the parts).

[IntvGene]

I love carts too. There's nothing like snapping them into the system. Just placing the CD into the tray, doesn't do it for me.

Carts are videogames, and basically that's it. Game CDs... well, they feel like DVDs, and Music CDs, etc. I don't feel they have the uniqueness that carts do. I love stacking carts and displaying them--it's just not the same with CDs. Even tiny carts like the Lynx and the TG-16 are much better than CDs.

It's been said already, but long live the Neo-Geo...

[Raccoon Lad]

You know what would help prolong the life of optical media; those cd holders they had WAY back in the early days that encased the disk similarly to a 3 1/2" floppy. I remember seeing those incorporated into the design of the SNES CD prototypes they showed in Nintendo Power. Those could last WAY longer than just loose discs.

[bargora]

I've always wondered why CDs aren't encased, Racoon Lad. I'm guessing it must be the cost, because I don't think the manufacturers were surprised that discs scratch pretty easily. Mini-discs come in floppy style enclosures, which I thought was a good move. BTW, is the mini-disc still a viable format? I haven't seen much about them lately.

[Eternal Champion]

I can't say for sure, but I think the mini-disc is still around, not so much as a format for commercial recordings but for recording purposes...quite amazing technology.

[tynstar]

To me it does not matter. I have bought a ton of used CD/DVD's and all of them have been fine. The CD just can't have any deep scratchs.

[rbudrick]

Mini Discs are still semi common. Smal-Fart (wal mart) still sells plenty of them. They are very compact devices and pretty handy, usually having optical and digital audio outputs. Many play MP#s too, so they are killer machines, and not rediculously expensive anymore. You don't see albums released on them any more afaik, but whatever.

Hey remember when Digital Cassettes were being pushed?....bwa hah ha hah!!


They are great to connect a mini mike to and record concerts...very hidden little things.

-Rob

[Eternal Champion]

DAT (Digital Audio Tape) isn't a consumer product anymore and hasn't been for years, but is still used for studio music recording, as is Super-Beta (yep, the super version of Beta video--much better than VHS). But with ProTools it won't be long...

[zektor]

You know what would help prolong the life of optical media; those cd holders they had WAY back in the early days that encased the disk similarly to a 3 1/2" floppy. I remember seeing those incorporated into the design of the SNES CD prototypes they showed in Nintendo Power. Those could last WAY longer than just loose discs.

This would definitely be a good idea for cd based videogames. At least if they were encased many of the worries of scratches would go away. Or maybe it would be cool to have games designed on Syquest type media? Remember the syquest drive that had the metal platter encased in plastic? Sort of like a hard drive. Production costs would most likely be much more however...

[omnedon]

As a collector with a technical bent, I've made it my business to learn how to fix CD based reading problems. I've been saving Saturns, DC's, and PS1's and 2's for a while now. Years down the road, I think the demand for these services from other collector's will be increasing.

It's fix 'em or emu. And collector's want to collect, not emu. I use emu too, but I see emu as a tool, and not a means to an end.

[scooterb23]

BTW, is the mini-disc still a viable format

I sure hope so, I love my minidisc player...good deals at Best Buy as well.

I was wondering today if it was possible to make a video game system that could use minidiscs...

Maybe the Playstation 3 or 4...since Sony is the main supporter of the format...

I think it could still be successful...