Help with RGB!

[Alfador]

So...I recently picked up a Sony PVM 2530 RGB Monitor free on Craigslist, and now I want to start playing some old games in RGB.

Problem is...I know nothing about it.

I mainly want to play SNES in RGB, but what other consoles are capable or benefit from playing in RGB? And do they require any modification? Or special cables? Where can I get the cables/modifications?

Basically, what's the easiest way to play all those old consoles in glorious RGB?

[Soviet Conscript]

oh....i wish anthony1 was still around here...

Alfador....i was in your boat about a year ago. i to got a nice sony RGB PVM for RGB gameing...so i'll try and give you the simple basics

viturally all systems with the exception of a few can be made to output RGB. most can do it through a european SCART cable and require no modification. your PVM RGB connection is NOT SCART, SCART was a Euro standard and us in the USA we mostly have our RGB monitors useing there own sort of connections. you could have a special cable made for most of your systems that hook up to the RGB input on your PVM but this is what i did

i found a guy that made me a simple SCART to PVM cable (with 2 rca audio cable) and then i just bought pre made RGB SCART cables for various systems, it just made things way easier. this way i just connect that SCART to PVM cable to my PVM RGB monitor and then hook up my various consoles (like my SNES) to that cable with the SCART one.

some systems like the tg-16 you will need a special cable made and the system modded but most of the well known ones already have SCART cables easily avalible.

erm...not sure if that came across to clear...if you have any questions just post or even PM me, i'm happy to help.

i think i should also add that on the SNES i didn't find the diffrence between RGB and S-video that huge (SNES has a good S-video encoder). i definatly did see a diffrence but it wasn't jaw dropping in my opinion. i also found fine text more blurred but thats probibly my monitors fault not the a/v signals.

[guitargary75]

Good luck. I have been trying to figure it out now for months. It's all technical jargon unless you know what your doing. You will probably have people tell you about this site or that site, but untill you find someone who knows how to do it, your screwed. Your best bet is to find someone who can mod your snes for you. Good luck because I haven't found anybody. If you do find someone, let me know.

[Soviet Conscript]

Good luck. I have been trying to figure it out now for months. It's all technical jargon unless you know what your doing. You will probably have people tell you about this site or that site, but untill you find someone who knows how to do it, your screwed. Your best bet is to find someone who can mod your snes for you. Good luck because I haven't found anybody. If you do find someone, let me know.

if you already have a monitor it should be very simple. i just asked around on a few forums if anyone could make me a PVM to SCART cable. i found someone within the first week and we worked out a fair price. after that i just went on playasia.com and ordered a slew of SCART cables. i think the whole thing (excludeing the monitor) was under $50. if you just need a cable for the SNES made it should be even easier and cheaper since you don't need the slightly more complicated SCART to PVM cable made.

....i've never written "SCART" so much in my life as in the last 10 minutes.

[NinjaJoey23]

Right, have someone make you one PVM to SCART connector, and then you can use that for all of your systems. For example, the SNES has a SCART cable that is fairly cheap on Ebay. Search the forums for some other RGB threads. If all else fails, PM Anthony1 on AVSforums.

[CartCollector]

How can there not be a post by Anthony1 on this clearly WCP-related topic?

(searches for topic with warm chocolate puddin' to link to and-

Anthony1 got banned? Woah, what happened?

[Alfador]

Sounds easy enough, does anybody know where I can get a PVM to SCART cable? And what systems will that work with? SNES, Genesis, N64, Neo Geo? But the TG-16 needs to be modified first?

[PingvinBlueJeans]

How can there not be a post by Anthony1 on this clearly WCP-related topic anywhere?
Probably because he stormed out of here and was subsequently banned about 2 months ago.

[Soviet Conscript]

Sounds easy enough, does anybody know where I can get a PVM to SCART cable? And what systems will that work with? SNES, Genesis, N64, Neo Geo? But the TG-16 needs to be modified first?

well, the guy that did mine isn't makeing stuff anymore so i couldn't reccommend him. just try posting in buying/selling forums that your looking to pay someone to make you the cable. i found someone to make mine on the Neo-Geo forums but there are people that can potentially make them on most gameing forums

SNES, Genesis, N64, Neo Geo. Sega Master System yes these systems have SCART cables you can buy easily as well as the playstation and saturn ( genesis model 1 SCART cables seem to be tought to find though). OH, for the SNES make sure you get the gambecube SCART cable. correct me if i'm wrong on this guys but i think only the gamecube/N64 SCART cable is wired correctly for RGB in a US SNES.

i think the N64 will need mod becuase of a quality issue in RGB.

the tg-16/turbo duo will require a cable and a mod to the system itself. RGB is also possible on the NES and 3DO but these are very expensive and complicated mods. don't know if pre Nes systems can be made to do RGB but really whats the point? S-video mods is more then enough for the atari era systems.

[Soviet Conscript]

How can there not be a post by Anthony1 on this clearly WCP-related topic?

(searches for topic with warm chocolate puddin' to link to and-

Anthony1 got banned? Woah, what happened?

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=110602&highlight=anthony1

i don't know why he was banned though.

[PingvinBlueJeans]

i don't know why he was banned though.

You just saw why he was banned...he left. Anyone who leaves DP and makes a public charade of it gets banned.

Anyways, back on topic...

[Niku-Sama]

i'll just pass this link along:
http://www.gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=

many useful items (including RGB mods for various systems) on this site.
check out the AV mod link

[eastbayarb]

i'll just pass this link along:
http://www.gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=

many useful items (including RGB mods for various systems) on this site.
check out the AV mod link

i have been in and out of gamesx.com before and while they do offer diffinitive info on RGB as a whole, for the average joe like me who doesn't have a steady hand (nerve damage due to my last job) nor time/technical expertise, I asked around on many forums (the gamesx forum isn't a good place to ask for someone to build you any kind of cable - they are pretty much strictly a Do it Yourself site and seem to frown upon those requesting people making cables for you), I myself would like a Sony PVM cable to accept SCART. If there was a SCART to 9-pin male adaptor (db9 wired for a 1084 monitor) that would be even better, since it is somewhat of a standard (although a few of my systems have a 15pin female connector).

What would be even more awesome is a SCART to VGA cable, since my other monitor (Mitsubishi Megaview 33" 15khz/31khz with VGA cable) accepts VGA via BNC or VGA (BNC to VGA cable).

the following systems I have in RGB are:

SNES
N64 (did the gamesx RGB mod)
TG16 (bought it with a 15pin RGB mod)
Sega Master System
Sega Genesis/32x (32x on top of a JVC X'eye)
Sega Saturn
Atari Jaguar
Neo Geo AES
Sony PSX/PS2

My other systems (AV Famicom/Disk System, Atari 7800, Atari 5200) are connected to my Philips 32" TV since they are not RGB capable

[Niku-Sama]

ah i thought you were of steady hand, sorry about that.
are you expected to recover or is it permanent or does it have something to do with a surgury of some sort?

any way i'll poke arround some more, foregin SNES AV cables have the same plug so a scart would be possible although i am not sure if it would work on a US because i cant rember if the pins are hooked up or left as blank/ground which happens time to time in the electronics world...but i think they are.

well play asia has a RGB scart cable for $4 on back order :
http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-24-49-en-70-64.html
and then you would have to adapt to something else any way because of the BNC connectors, but you also said something about the monitor you want to use. they make SCART to VGA converters
http://www.alvio.com/product_view.aspx?product_ID=506774&source_ID=froogle
i am sure if you poked arround some more you could find somehting cheaper, oh s-video to thats cool.

any way i know its kinda a rube goldberg way of doing things but if you cant modify it your self you might be stuck with doing it this way.
or a console mod service on ther internet but this would take care of your SNES.

i know not the info your lookin for but its somethin to think about

[eastbayarb]

ah i thought you were of steady hand, sorry about that.
are you expected to recover or is it permanent or does it have something to do with a surgury of some sort?

any way i'll poke arround some more, foregin SNES AV cables have the same plug so a scart would be possible although i am not sure if it would work on a US because i cant rember if the pins are hooked up or left as blank/ground which happens time to time in the electronics world...but i think they are.

well play asia has a RGB scart cable for $4 on back order :
http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-24-49-en-70-64.html
and then you would have to adapt to something else any way because of the BNC connectors, but you also said something about the monitor you want to use. they make SCART to VGA converters
http://www.alvio.com/product_view.aspx?product_ID=506774&source_ID=froogle
i am sure if you poked arround some more you could find somehting cheaper, oh s-video to thats cool.

any way i know its kinda a rube goldberg way of doing things but if you cant modify it your self you might be stuck with doing it this way.
or a console mod service on ther internet but this would take care of your SNES.

i know not the info your lookin for but its somethin to think about

it's kinda permanent and i take meds for it sometimes when it really hurts (only when I type for extended periods of time, lift heavy objects, or even when my hands are at rest, they shake a bit).

a SCART to VGA or 9pin dsub adaptor would be great

[Soviet Conscript]

and then you would have to adapt to something else any way because of the BNC connectors, but you also said something about the monitor you want to use. they make SCART to VGA converters
http://www.alvio.com/product_view.aspx?product_ID=506774&source_ID=froogle
i am sure if you poked arround some more you could find somehting cheaper, oh s-video to thats cool.


i'm curious now, i thought vga was 40+ khz (?) and older consoles send out their a/v signals at 15 khz. so i was under the impression that getting a older console to send through VGA was like trying to get two atoms to occupy the same space at the same time.

do they make vga that does 15 khz? or you still need a special TV/monitor right, this thing won't work for say, hooking a snes up to a standard PC monitor?

[eastbayarb]

ok everyone,

I think there is some confusion here as far as my monitor. my monitor is a mitsubishi megaview
33 inch monitor which handles both 15khz and 31 khz. it natively has bnc connectors, but I have a bnc to vga cable attatched to it. and the another cable that lets me connect 15pin rgb or 9pin rgb to vga. Trust me, it works.

[CartCollector]

VGA at 640x480 is 31KHz. However, VGA (really QVGA) at 320x200 or 240 is 15KHz. The latter is used in DOS and for the Windows 9x and XP bootup. There are higher scan rates - 800x600 (SVGA) is about 38KHz, and your 33" Megaview should be able to handle it. (At least, that's what some information I got on the internet said. I haven't tried it myself.)

[eastbayarb]

VGA at 640x480 is 31KHz. However, VGA (really QVGA) at 320x200 or 240 is 15KHz. The latter is used in DOS and for the Windows 9x and XP bootup. There are higher scan rates - 800x600 (SVGA) is about 38KHz, and your 33" Megaview should be able to handle it. (At least, that's what some information I got on the internet said. I haven't tried it myself.)

this is correct. my mitsubishi megaview 33'' monitor handles vga at up to 800X600 (i have my dreamcast hooked up to it with the vga adaptor) and 15khz rgb (i have snes, n64, master system, jaguar, saturn, psz, ps2, genesis/32x hooked up to it). my nec multisync XM29 also handles 15khz and 31 khz through vga connector. I would really like a euro SCART to vga adaptor

[Trebuken]

All I needed was a SCART to PVM cable??? I had a guy make me about ten adapters for my consoles to attach to the PVM-2530...

My List:
Neo Geo CD
Jaguar/Jag CD
Sega Genesis (Master Gear'ed)
JVC X'Eye (I think)
Playstation (Also works with PS2 I think)
SNES (Model 1 is required)
Sega Saturn

I've given up hope of seeing any more systems in RGB due to the modifcations and my unique cabling...

If you find someone who can make this cable it'd be awesome if you let me know...

[Mitch]

I haven't been able to track down one of the PVM monitors yet, I'm still using my Commodore/Amiga 1080 and my Atari SC1435 RGB monitors. I built a 9 pin to SCART cable for both of them, it makes RGB gaming a lot easier. :)

I could probably build a SCART to PVM monitor cable but since I don't own the monitor I would have no way of testing it.

Mitch

[Alfador]

Well make it and send it on over, I'll test it for you! :)

[eastbayarb]

I haven't been able to track down one of the PVM monitors yet, I'm still using my Commodore/Amiga 1080 and my Atari SC1435 RGB monitors. I built a 9 pin to SCART cable for both of them, it makes RGB gaming a lot easier. :)

I could probably build a SCART to PVM monitor cable but since I don't own the monitor I would have no way of testing it.

Mitch

Can you do a SCART to VGA cable? Once again, my monitor (Mitsubishi Megaview 33" monitor ) has a VGA connector, and it supports both 15khz and 31khz through the VGA cable. In addition to that, i have a VGA to 9pin db9 adaptor so I can use my cables (wired for 1084 commodore monitor) with my monitor.

thanks!

[Soviet Conscript]

I haven't been able to track down one of the PVM monitors yet, I'm still using my Commodore/Amiga 1080 and my Atari SC1435 RGB monitors. I built a 9 pin to SCART cable for both of them, it makes RGB gaming a lot easier. :)

I could probably build a SCART to PVM monitor cable but since I don't own the monitor I would have no way of testing it.

Mitch

if you do try and make one i have 2 suggestions

1) use 2 stereo RCA cables (red, white) for the audio since there have been alot of talk about problems with audio through the 25 pin PCM input

2) just make sure the female SCART blank you use for the cable is fully wired for RGB, some are just wired for composite.

[evil_genius]

Come back Tony.

[Niku-Sama]

i'm curious now, i thought vga was 40+ khz (?) and older consoles send out their a/v signals at 15 khz. so i was under the impression that getting a older console to send through VGA was like trying to get two atoms to occupy the same space at the same time.

do they make vga that does 15 khz? or you still need a special TV/monitor right, this thing won't work for say, hooking a snes up to a standard PC monitor?


wait a minute what are you saying thats all these frequency ranges it cant be refreshrates because that would be a hell of an awsome refresh rate.

mabe your gettin raw spec, i found a formula on a wiki about CRT displays.


Wiki Article:
The refresh rate can be calculated from the horizontal scan rate by dividing by the number of horizontal lines and multiplying the result by 0.95 (since about 5% of the time it takes to scan the screen is spent moving the electron beam back to the top). For instance, a monitor with a horizontal scanning frequency of 96 kHz at a resolution of 1280 × 1024 results in a refresh rate of 96,000 / 1024 × 0.95 = 89 Hz (rounded down).


LCDs have been produced in mind that yea, you dont have to wait for en electron beam but that reciving the signal when within spec should produce the same result....most of the time. magnavox odyssey stand alone sets and atari 2600's dont work on my LCD tv (vizio HD ATSC bulit in) but that may be another issue since its not RGB i wont go there.

what your sayin might be true, that might be why some mods require resistors and pot's and other funky sorts of regulation.
i donno either way i usually start out with the cheap way and go from there

[Mitch]

OK, how serious are you guys about wanting cables made? I'm still reluctant to build a cable for a monitor I can't test on but if you can't get anyone else to do it I can give it a try.
Send me a PM and we can discuss it.

Mitch

[Trebuken]

http://www.mediacollege.com/equipment/manuals/

Search for Sony PVM-2530.

The user manual shows the 25-pin connection and describes all the pins.

It would be cool if you could make a 25 pin to SCART cable.

[CartCollector]

wait a minute what are you saying thats all these frequency ranges it cant be refreshrates because that would be a hell of an awsome refresh rate.


They're the frequencies that the electron beam moves horizontally from the right of the CRT (viewer's perspective, not the beam's) to the [edited for clarity] left of the next row of pixels. Sort of like a refresh rate, except for something called a scanline (contiguous row of pixels). The number of visible scanlines is the second number given (for instance, 640x480 = 480 visible scanlines). But there's also scanlines for something called VBlank, which is at the end of a frame or field (TVs use fields, because of interlacing), where the electron beam moves from the bottom right to the top left.

I could get into this more, if anyone cares.

[Niku-Sama]

yea like i said before in the above post, i made a quote from wiki.

The refresh rate can be calculated from the horizontal scan rate by dividing by the number of horizontal lines and multiplying the result by 0.95 (since about 5% of the time it takes to scan the screen is spent moving the electron beam back to the top). For instance, a monitor with a horizontal scanning frequency of 96 kHz at a resolution of 1280 × 1024 results in a refresh rate of 96,000 / 1024 × 0.95 = 89 Hz (rounded down).

not quoted this time

[CartCollector]

Um, do you know what a "scanline" is? This is how a CRT draws an image:
http://media.maxim-ic.com/images/appnotes/734/DI39Fig03.gif

If you hate math, and don't need to know what the horizontal line frequencies mean exactly, skip the next paragraph.

The reciprocal of the time it takes to draw the scanline and retrace is the horizontal line frequency. (1 / time) = freq. It also works in reverse.
Example:
In NTSC, the line frequency is about 15,750Hz (when people say 15KHz what they really mean is 15.75KHz). So, (1 / 15,750) ~= 0.0000063492... or 63.5 microseconds, the time it takes for an NTSC CRT to draw the scanline and retrace.

Welcome back, math haters. The whole thing about 15KHz and 31KHz is mostly an issue of resolution. Some RGB monitors (like most VGA-compatible monitors) can only "sync to" (display) 31KHz and sometimes above. 31KHz basically means 480p. Others (like old arcade monitors) can only sync to 15KHz (240p). And then there are multisync RGB monitors, which can do both. 15KHz-compatible monitors are very important for those who want to use them to play video games because that's what most video game consoles use. The Colecovision, Master System, Genesis, Turbografx-16, SNES, 3DO, PSX, and N64 all use the 15KHz RGB standard. However, most modern monitors (in US/Japan; Europe gets RGB-compatible TVs, bloody lucky blokes) do NOT use this standard. So finding a 15KHz-compatible monitor can be a bit of work.

I got the picture from here. (http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/an_pk/734) If you want to know more about video, it's a good place to start.

[CartCollector]

Accidental double post. Delete plz!