Xbox 360 - 16% failure rate?

[Flack]

According to this article:

http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/14/xbox-360-failure-rate-at-16/

[Nature Boy]

I bought my machine exactly a year ago, and I've seen a red ring twice - but further investigation revealed it was just that the HD was a little loose (probably caused by my two young kids horsing around in it's resting place). After disconnecting and reattaching the HD, and relocating my machine, I haven't seen it since.

I *love* my 360, but still live in fear of 'the' RROD someday. I actually chose the 360 over the PS3 largly because of price. Next generation I might just pay the extra bucks if I know Sony is going to make a better machine.

The sad thing is that if other consumers think like I do it doesn't really affect anything until next time. So it's like they got away with something. At least they've extended the warranty though.

(I wonder how the costs for all that will shake out in the end and affect their next launch. They might not be so keen to get a head start next time, although that depends on more than just costs I know)

[swlovinist]

16 percent is way to high. It shows that MS still has alot to learn about the console business.

[heybtbm]

16% of current 360's right? The failure rate of launch (into early '06) 360's is certainly higher than 16%.

The article does address this (in a way) by noting the tendancy of people like us to leave their 360's on for extended periods of time. This in turn causes the 360 to be hotter for longer and therefore we have higher failure (RRoD) rates. Makes sense, but is still unacceptable.

[HYB]

I bought my 360 at launch and have never had any problems. I play for extended periods, say at least from 3 hours to a whooping 17 hours. I still somewhat fear the RROD because as a student I can hardly afford another 360. My friends who own a 360 have never experienced any problems with theirs either.

16% failure rate is still a bit much though.

[kjmontana]

I wonder what the failure rate was for PS1 and PS2? I had to buy at least 3 PSX's as they tended to fail after several hours of play. I believe Sony estimated people would play for 2 or so hours at a time, so they tested it that way, I guess. PS2's famous "Disk Read Error" fade to grey screen was responsible for 2 PS2 purchases as the warranty expired. But they WOULD fix it for $100 + S&H. Later on, they started to fix them 360-style(free for DRE only, like RRoD only). Anyone else have problems with Sony systems?

[segagamer4life]

there is a noticable failure rate for the 360 that there is no denying, but I don't think basing this off of warranties sold is a good way to determine failure rate, I mean there is a problem w/ some 360's but to guage this off warranties sold is not going to give you a factual determination of hard numbers.

[smork]

I'm surprised it's that low. I only have one friend whose hasn't failed, and e plays less than most of my other friends.

[lendelin]

Interesting like all information we get about the failure rate of the 360 beyond anecdotal evidence.

We have to be very cautious to read more into the reported result than what it actually captures. It says only something about the failure rate of 360 owners who bought a separate warranty. If this is a positive or negative bias (more or less than the 16% if the customers were randomly chosen) is not clear.

Not only "power users" might tend to buy a separate warranty, but also casual gamers because they heard more than just rumors about failures of the machine. We just don't know. If we knew 1) play time before the failure occured, 2) when the failed systems were manufactured, 3) what kind of failure, 4) if 'serious problems' are included, and some other data, then we could say a bit more about the 16%.

This reliable and refined data data exists, but MS like Sony with the failure problems with the PSX and PS2 will never publish the exact failure rates. (and we still don't know them, only general admittance that the probs existed years after) They have their numbers plus statistics from marketing research institutes before they made the decision to extend the warranty.

My guess is (note: even the most well informed and educated guess is still that, mere speculation) that the failure rate is much higher.

The 16% would be be still in a somewhat acceptable range like the failure rates and serious problems rates of rear projection TVs (Hitachi 24%, Samsung 19%, Sony 12%, according to the most recent Consumer Reports). I don't think that MS would have taken such a finacial loss with the extended warranty at a 16% level despite its concern about loosing reputation and effects of the loss in consumer confidence on sales numbers. My guess is (with various info we have on the subject now) that the number is probably in the 30% to 40% range.

I know one thing: I have my 360 now for 21 months without having a problem. But if this thing breaks down in the next two years, Microsoft won't see a dime from me for the 360 for a very, very long time. It is outrageous that MS didn't listen to warning signs because they wanted to meet the set release date.

[Richter Belmount]

I thought the last study said that it was 32 percent failure rate. I personally got a launch 360 and had to send in the damn thing on atleast 5 different occasions.

[XYXZYZ]

I know one thing: I have my 360 now for 21 months without having a problem. But if this thing breaks down in the next two years, Microsoft won't see a dime from me for the 360 for a very, very long time. It is outrageous that MS didn't listen to warning signs because they wanted to meet the set release date.

What gets me is how everyone keeps getting the damn thing again and again, I know the games are fun but after it fails for the second time, people should be forming a mob outside Microsoft HQ demanding their money back. As long as everyone keeps getting it replaced, I don't think MS would give a shit because they know the userbase isn't shrinking. As I've said in other threads, I'd like a 360 but the failure rate is dkeeping me away.

[Streetball 21]

Meh, what a scary post. I just got my 360 last month. I hope I do not come across this. My 360 did freeze last night while playing Test Drive Unlimited online. I hope this isnt a sign.....

[digitalpress]

That's a surprisingly LOW number, based on what I've seen from the models built in the first two years. After opening dozens of them up, I still believe that nearly ALL of these will get RRoD at some point. We've even had two store units fail and they're not used all that often. Fortunately Microsoft is good about getting the "coffin" box out quickly and the refurb back in hand relatively quickly, in most cases.

We have not yet had a customer bring an Elite or a Falcon board 360 to the store with RRoD so for now it seems the initial problems have been addressed.

[lendelin]

That's a surprisingly LOW number, based on what I've seen from the models built in the first two years. After opening dozens of them up, I still believe that nearly ALL of these will get RRoD at some point. We've even had two store units fail and they're not used all that often. Fortunately Microsoft is good about getting the "coffin" box out quickly and the refurb back in hand relatively quickly, in most cases.

We have not yet had a customer bring an Elite or a Falcon board 360 to the store with RRoD so for now it seems the initial problems have been addressed.

With these kind of informations and being careful we get a realistic view about the failure rates. When the PS2 had serious problems, I talked to store clerks at BB, or CC and used gamestores. I knew them for some time so they were very open about it. At this level you get the absolutely best information if you carefully listen.

I know only three guys in Germany who have a 360, two of them experienced the RRoD. I know four 360 owners here in Milwaukee, two of them had the RRoD. I talked to store clerks, and dang, the failure rate is frightening.

I sure hope you're wrong with your prediction that nearly all of the 360s manufactured in the first two years will see the RRoD. I think the failure rate is already more than 30%, in two years we'll know more about its durability, and maybe then your dark estimation will come true.

I'd hate to give mine a funeral. I lucked out with every console I bought, my NES still works like the day I bought it, the cartridges fit tightly.

If it happens to me, buying games for the 360 won't happening in the next two years. One advantage of being videogame nuts like us with way too many games on our shelves is that we ALWAYS have alternatives and enough games to play. :)

[Poorfamily]

We have not yet had a customer bring an Elite or a Falcon board 360 to the store with RRoD so for now it seems the initial problems have been addressed.


The one I got in December failed within a week! It was the new design with updated PS and all. MS returned me a refurbed older model and my PS wouldn't fit! After calling them the rep convinced me that the older model actually had the newer mobo inside. Now I'm waiting on a replacement PS that will actually work.

Anybody else get stuck with the old swicheroo?

[xdaytime]

I've gotten the RROD once. I think the newer systems "supposedly" don't have this problem.

[Nature Boy]

My coworker's 360 bit the dust yesterday, but I think he had a launch 360. I can't remember if he's already had it replaced or not. Scary!

Somebody asked the question as to why you'd replace a 360 if it kept breaking down on you. The answer isn't that tough really - if you've got a bunch of games for it, why would you want to get rid of them (for pennies on the dollar) and re-invest not only in a new console but new games for that console? Especially if you can get your 360 repaired for free?

It's not the games themselves I'd be tied to - it's the money associated with buying those games. Plus the time I've spent playing them, unlocking achievements and progressing through them and such.

[Lothars]

Well I really don't believe that, that seems way to low, I would suspect it's at least 30% if not more like 40%.
Especially now that it's everyone I know that has had to sent out their 360 at least once including myself which i've had to send my 360 back twice in a row.

[otaku]

Yeah this number seems low I'd say higher. This is the first console I've ever owned that died and did so within a year to! It never ran particularly well before that point either (loud, unstable etc) now its still loud and unstable plus the disc drive is screwy. This thing is definetly a POS. good games though and nice online service. haha

[koster]

Does anyone know whether the three year warranty resets on replacement Xbox 360s? Or is it limited to three years from the date of purchase of the original Xbox 360?

[Nature Boy]

Does anyone know whether the three year warranty resets on replacement Xbox 360s? Or is it limited to three years from the date of purchase of the original Xbox 360?

Warranties like this never reset - they're always based on the original purchase date.

[Rob2600]

This is like the Coleco Adam all over again. However, unlike Coleco, Microsoft has enough money to avoid going bankrupt.

[Sotenga]

Ugh... I'm at a crossroads as of now. I have a nice stash of spending money that I do want to eventually invest in an X360 sometime soon. However... I'm still really standoffish about investing some $400 in something that might turn out to be an ultimate crapshoot. Granted, warranties are sure to lessen the pain, but... well, I've a few questions:

1: Is there any established difference between the endurance of the "core" units and the "elite" units?

2: Is it recommended that I get one soon, or wait until the confirmed failure rate drops down?

3: Is it worth it to shell out that extra $100 or so for the elite model?

[digitalpress]

The one I got in December failed within a week! It was the new design with updated PS and all.

What was "it"? Elite? Arcade? Premium? Are you certain that it was a Falcon-based processor?

And what is an "updated PS"?

[zektor]

Burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice, shame on me.

Well, shame on me times two, as I have tried to live happily with a worry free 360 experience. Guess what? Didn't happen. I am not going to harp on it as I have told this same story in other threads, but to make a really long story short I will *never* purchase another M$ game console again. The 360 is very far away from me now, and while I really did like the games, the terrible hardware flaws combined with the craptastic support made their failure rate 100% in the eyes of this customer.

[zektor]

What was "it"? Elite? Arcade? Premium? Are you certain that it was a Falcon-based processor?

And what is an "updated PS"?

Power supply perhaps?

[Nature Boy]

I will say this: much ado was made about launch day PS2's having 'high failure rates' and long have people on these forums 'wondered why people kept buying PS2s'.

The fact of the matter is, I've still yet to have any problems with my PS2 (bought at launch) and my 360 (outside of the aforementioned HD issue, which I blame on my kids, not MS).

I actually read that MS denied the 16% reports (no big surprise there), mentioning that they've never heard or dealt with the source previously (which I put a *little* credence into).

[ghsqb]

In my own personal experience (which is certainly no scientific sampling pool) I would believe it was higher than 16% also.

Myself, I'm on my second 360, and while the first one didn't get the RROD, I was getting repeated and frequent "this disc is unreadable" errors, even on brand new, fresh out of the shrink wrap games.

Many of my friends have actually experienced the RROD. In fact I don't personally know anyone who HASN'T experienced issues with their 360.

Having said that I never hesitate to recommend the system to anyone who asks, the software, Live and Live Arcade are just too damn good, and while there may be QA issues, at least they will stand behind the product and replace it.

One other thing that makes me think that it's higher than 16%.

Microsoft took pretty significant measures in extending the guarantee the way they did. This is a pretty steep cost for them to do this, I don't think they'd go to those measures if it was "only" 16% of units. (Don't get me wrong 16% is already a lot, but we're talking relativity here.)

[Poorfamily]

What was "it"? Elite? Arcade? Premium? Are you certain that it was a Falcon-based processor?

And what is an "updated PS"?

I got the 360 Pro bundle with the Forza/Marvel games. The console has the new 175W power brick which I understand is used for the Falcon board. That's what I meant by 'updated'. perhaps a bad choice of words? Regardless, the console sent back to me had the older model of power socket which my 175W supply would not fit in.

[Nature Boy]

I don't think they'd go to those measures if it was "only" 16% of units. (Don't get me wrong 16% is already a lot, but we're talking relativity here.)

I believe that the 16% refers to the current failure rate (which means Xboxes being made now). The extended warranty affects users who bought a machine back when the failure rate *was* much higher than 16%.

I think that distinction has been overlooked somewhat in this thread. The 360 of my friend that just failed was two years old, so it wouldn't have counted in the 16% because it wasn't made in the last year.

[ghsqb]

I believe that the 16% refers to the current failure rate (which means Xboxes being made now). The extended warranty affects users who bought a machine back when the failure rate *was* much higher than 16%.

I think that distinction has been overlooked somewhat in this thread. The 360 of my friend that just failed was two years old, so it wouldn't have counted in the 16% because it wasn't made in the last year.


Hmmm fair point.

I'll admit, I missed the distinction.

I really can't speak to the failure rate of this generation of 360's versus the previous incarnation.
Would the 16% then refer to Falcon boards?
I'm not sure how many other revisions have been made to the 360 hardware since launch?

[Sotenga]

Oh, man. I'm really getting paranoid about this. Would I just be better off waiting until next Christmas for an X360? >_<

[RPG_Fanatic]

Even Microsoft's own demo 360's get the RROD it's at the Game Developers Conference check the link. It's kind of funny.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3166379

[Nature Boy]

Oh, man. I'm really getting paranoid about this. Would I just be better off waiting until next Christmas for an X360? >_<

If it's going to cause you to worry too much I would say yes. I love my Xbox, but I'd never suggest someone buy one unless they're comfortable with what they're getting. Mind you I do think the failure stuff is overblown, especially in a small community like this. Lots of people slammed the PS2 at launch for the same reason, and my launch PS2 still works just fine.

[segagamer4life]

Oh, man. I'm really getting paranoid about this. Would I just be better off waiting until next Christmas for an X360? >_<

I have to say, even with the failures, not to say they are rampant or anything like that, but the system is down right FUN and there are a ton of great games first party and otherwise that make it too good a lure. I have both systems, and I never touch my ps3, not that is not good. Its just not my cup of tea. Anyway, I wouldn't wait till christmas for a 360, the best thing you can do is get one of the falcon, 360 pro or elite w/ the new 175w power supply, personally I doubt if you'll regret it, play Lost Odyssey and I know you won't.

[Greg2600]

I never buy a system in its first year. Especially when they went to CD and DVD drives. However, if current model 360's are still failing, then that is ridiculous.