Can we please remove bingo from the "offical release" RCA Studio II library

[swlovinist]

I know that this has been brought up before, but can we remove this from the library of RCA Studio II? Unless somebody here can prove it with pics with a commercial box and inst, then we should place this one in the Rumor mill. For the 4 people that actually care about the RCA Studio II and accurate game lists, this would be great. Anyone want to prove me wrong with evidence?(not stories :))


EDIT: After reading my original post, I just wanted to add that I know that this cart does indeed exist. The whole point that I am trying to make is that with any game with the existance of just (1) cart, should the DP guide have games that have not been confirmed to be sold to the general public in a separate section?

[Maxx]

I care and I agree.

[digitalpress]

Myself and several others saw this game, in a retail box, firsthand at PhillyClassic (2, I believe, in 2001). The guy wouldn't part with it. Al Backiel and I'm pretty sure Matt Reichert can confirm this, as we were three people who certainly did care.

[swlovinist]

How do we not know that these were final samples and not distributed? If we dont know the actual story behind the game, shouldnt we put this in the "rumor mill?"

I think if we see something and not know futher information, then at least it needs to be questioned further. Frankly if only two of these surface, it makes me question if it was released. If the game was released, why so few? Why havent others surfaced? If a game is made for a system, even for an obscure one, wouldnt many more be commercially available?

[Mayhem]

Oh I agree that there should be more out there, but who know what happens? I can rattle off several entries for the C64 and Vic20 databases where only one or two known copies are out there, many from "established" publishers. Surely there must be more, and maybe in time they will appear to me, but until then, you just go by what you have and can deduce.

[swlovinist]

I guess that I come from a skeptical historical point of view when it comes to adding a game to an offical game list. If there isnt proof, history, or any offical data to go by, then it shouldnt be offically added. I thought that is why the rumor mill was even in the book, for games such as this. For as many as there is to say that it does exist, I bet you there are as many that question it as an offical release. I am still skeptical. I love you guys, but I guess we can agree to disagree.

[digitalpress]

This game is no more a rumor than the many prototypes that have been confirmed over the years, and the fact that it was witnessed in person by several avid RCA collectors in the exact packaging we'd expect it to be in on retail space further confirms my belief that this is no prototype, either.

You can be as skeptical as you want. I consider myself the ultimate skeptic and am constantly criticized for leaving games in the rumor mill when there HAS TO BE A PROTOTYPE available, because there was a mock-up photo seen in some classic magazine (as one typical example). Seeing is believing, however, and I'm pretty good at picking out real retro vs. reproductions and even vs. prototypes.

Just because I've only seen one in my lifetime doesn't make it any less likely a "real" retail release. Seeing just one only means I've seen it the same number of times if not once more than other confirmed releases like Neo-Geo Kizuna Encounter, Atari 2600 Air Raid, or Genesis Blockbuster Tournament II.

Sorry bro. It's real.

[swlovinist]

I am not questioning whether or not it is real, I am questioning if it was sold to the public. Sure, its real, Sure you saw it. But does that mean it was an OFFICAL release? I mean to me, offical releases are ones that you could actuall go out and buy. Everything else, is well, unreleased, prototypes, and other. I fall in the category if you could not go out and buy it, then it does not count in the offical releases. Sure you saw it, but nobody can confirm it was for sale to the public back in the day. For example of Genesis Blockbuster Tournament II, you could not go out and buy it((in a store), so I would not count that as offical release. I hope that I am making my point. Not to be a stickler on this, but I just think that we need to be careful on what we deem "offical releases" before we put on a list and say "yeah it was released alright". The end of the day we know that it was made, but we do not know if it was available to the public. We do not know if it was sold in stores. This to me, is valid questioning on whether or not it makes the game an offical release.

[y-bot]

I think it should be listed in the prototype section but not with the regular releases. I think I mostly agree with John on this one. I'm not doubting anyone saw it although this is the first time I've heard anyone say they saw it besides Matt Reichert (that's tempest right?) Who was this mystery person who has it? Who would have a table at a classic video game show and not have any ties to someone who's read about this game on the internet? Weird!

y-bot

[digitalpress]

The fact that this guy was just an ordinary gamer with an interesting yet unspectacular (besides RCA Bingo, of course) collection made his authenticity double in my mind. He brought his whole RCA collection to the show just for people to play, he wasn't selling anything. I wish I could remember the story as to how he got it, because I'm sure all three of us asked. If this were a story that had some weird insider implication or suggested that the game was a prototype or bootleg it would have raised a red flag. Hopefully one of the other guys can be more specific, my recollection is that he got the last game in a local store closing them out. I'm sure that's not exactly right but it would have to be some description of this sort for me to wipe doubts clear. Of course, three senior collectors could have been simultaneously duped by this so-called ordinary gamer.

Prototypes rarely if ever (if I could think of one I'd post it right now) have this level of retail synchronicity.

As for the argument "just because you saw it, how does that make it official?" my counter-argument "how does seeing it NOT make it official?". The fact that you didn't see it, I did, puts us at a bit of an impasse. If Matt or Al were to post here they'd agree that there is NO reason to remove this from the "released" list because as avid collectors this passed every test. Having not seen it, you are left with less information to contradict it.

Sorry bro, it's real (as in, retail shelves though clearly extremely limited real).

[swlovinist]

again nobody knows facts. It is all speculation and stories. We dont have the facts. WE DONT KNOW IT WAS SOLD. It is just suspected. I respect you guys as avid collectors, but without concrete evidence of this game actually being sold, we still dont have FACTS about if it was actual released.

Sorry bro, I still am going to be a devils advocate on this one(among others)

[orangest]

philly classic recap by dan, april 16, 2000 (http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.video.classic/browse_thread/thread/183bb18317bfdeb4/454253f28d02636f?lnk=st&q=%22rca+studio+ii%22+bingo+phillyclassic&rnum=1#454253f28d02636f)


I'm sure I'll never have a better brag, so here it goes.......

My small contribution to PhillyClassic was setting up my RCA Studio II was the
demo cart. I owned (at the time) about half of the Studio II catalog, but
only brought the demonstration cart to the show. I figured that few people
had seen the demo cart and the games are no fun to play anyway.

After talking with hardcore collectors at the show who don't have some of my
items, I felt pretty fortunate. I was ecstatic after receiving a boxed cart
that I needed (see previous post).

.... fast forward to the drive home

I was passing the "Circle 40" indoor flea on the drive home. I hadn't been
inside it for a few years, but I had a little time before my wife was
expecting me home. The first item I spotted was a boxed Odyssey 300. No
price on it, but it had a real funky smell. Pass.

I spotted a Ms. PacMan upright. This is the first arcade game I'd seen in a
flea or thrift store. The price seemed right at $150 until I took a second
look--$1,500. Guess I missed a zero. I moved on.

I stopped to poke around in an open box with some portable phone stuff on
top. I thought I recognized a familiar looking item about the size of a deck
of cards. It was a Studio II cart. I poked around some more and realized the
boxed was packed with Studio II carts (all boxed complete) and a console
plus.......the TV/power box. Got the lot for $10.

But that's not the brag. I suspected that this might give me a complete
Studio II collection. When I got home I pulled out the DP guide and checked
them off: Baseball...needed that; Biorhythem...needed that,
BlackJack...needed that, Gunfighter/Monship Battle...needed that, Space
War...needed that, Tennis/Squash...I just got this one this morning, TV
Schoolhouse...don't need that, Fun with Numbers...don't need that,
Bingo...don't see that one in the guide. Then it slowly sinks in. I FOUND A
TITLE NOT LISTED IN THE GUIDE!!! WOHOO! Sure its no proto, but a dream of
mine none the less.

Turns out that I still need Speedway/Tag and the diagnostic cart to complete
my collection. Anyone have these for trade?

Dan

[y-bot]

Can any internet detective types track this Dan guy down? I tried the email dan-jen@mindspring.com but it's no good. Lots of things come up from a "dan-jen" google search but nothing that promising. Anyone know the organizers of Phillyclassic 2000 & 2001? Maybe they have a vendor list. Someone must know this guy.

y-bot

[digitalpress]

philly classic recap by dan, april 16, 2000 (http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.video.classic/browse_thread/thread/183bb18317bfdeb4/454253f28d02636f?lnk=st&q=%22rca+studio+ii%22+bingo+phillyclassic&rnum=1#454253f28d02636f)

Thanks for tracking that down.

[Bojay1997]

again nobody knows facts. It is all speculation and stories. We dont have the facts. WE DONT KNOW IT WAS SOLD. It is just suspected. I respect you guys as avid collectors, but without concrete evidence of this game actually being sold, we still dont have FACTS about if it was actual released.

Sorry bro, I still am going to be a devils advocate on this one(among others)

I'm sorry, but I have a problem with the fact that you keep posting these ridiculous threads claiming that something needs to be removed from a list just because you believe it doesn't exist. You wanted Space Hulk in longbox removed and several people have confirmed it exists because they own it and another one was sold on Ebay recently. The reality is, like the second set of Odyssey 1 games, there are some games on obscure systems that can go for years undiscovered. With regard to the Odyssey, Ralph Baer didn't even know the second set of games existed, but now several sets have been confirmed. There just aren't that many RCA Studio II collectors and it is entirely possible that few if any people bought Bingo when it was available at retail. It's not a rumor because it has been seen and handled in person. It's also not a prototype as it was in full retail packaging. Unless you were in charge of distribution at RCA at the time or owned an authorized RCA retailer, I don't think you have any grounds to continually attack the inclusion of the game by the very people that created the DP guide in the first place. Is this really about the fact that you now don't have a "complete" RCA Studio II collection?

[swlovinist]

I'm sorry, but I have a problem with the fact that you keep posting these ridiculous threads claiming that something needs to be removed from a list just because you believe it doesn't exist. You wanted Space Hulk in longbox removed and several people have confirmed it exists because they own it and another one was sold on Ebay recently. The reality is, like the second set of Odyssey 1 games, there are some games on obscure systems that can go for years undiscovered. With regard to the Odyssey, Ralph Baer didn't even know the second set of games existed, but now several sets have been confirmed. There just aren't that many RCA Studio II collectors and it is entirely possible that few if any people bought Bingo when it was available at retail. It's not a rumor because it has been seen and handled in person. It's also not a prototype as it was in full retail packaging. Unless you were in charge of distribution at RCA at the time or owned an authorized RCA retailer, I don't think you have any grounds to continually attack the inclusion of the game by the very people that created the DP guide in the first place. Is this really about the fact that you now don't have a "complete" RCA Studio II collection?

First of all I am a very respected collector who in no means wants to just trash talk. I have been on these boards a long time and have supported what most retro gamers have done here. To let you know that my profession is in the education/counseling background. I am also big into history and details. I do like to point out the obvious though...if we dont have the background information on a title other than finding it, how do we really know if the game was released in game stores? I take official game lists very seriously. An official list to me is games that have been proven to be sold in retail. Anything else should be considered a prototype. If we cannot prove if the game was released and sold, then we do not know. That is the big point I am trying to say. I could give a rats ass about a complete set. I just want to make a point. Others on this board have spoken about this as well. People can make mistakes. I dont think DP are mistake free. If some people did not question things, then the guide wouldn't get better. I guess I am just taken back at how defensive some people have gotten into me questioning this title as a RELEASED TITLE. In the end, we still dont know shit about it. I am sure that it will stay on the OFFICIAL RELEASES list, but again, we still dont know if it was.

That is my whole big point.

P.S. the Space Hulk thing was not resolved, other than not a single complete copy being posted. As of now it is not being considered released, with the information we have. Again, it was released after longbox games were done. A perfect example of 1. Yes we have found one. 2. No, we don't have official information about it.

With that I am going to bed and am going to try to think nice thoughts about the nice people on this forum I have met.

[PapaStu]

That is my whole big point.

P.S. the Space Hulk thing was not resolved, other than not a single complete copy being posted. As of now it is not being considered released, with the information we have. Again, it was released after longbox games were done. A perfect example of 1. Yes we have found one. 2. No, we don't have official information about it.


I don't know about Bingo, but from the likes of what I read in that recap it sounds like it got made (all be it some insanely low number of copies, but it sounds like it was made).

**veering off topic**
In regards to Space Hulk, there have been NO complete ones, only ONE box has been found. No manuals. We find a manual, that proves longbox status. Until then we're under the impression that it was just one of those complete mock/promo boxes that somehow made it out of the store.

**veering back on topic**

[Vectorman0]

I just wanted to chime in and say I think this disagreement is healthy and good for the the Collector's Guide by keeping it fair and honest, even if in the end nothing satisfies everyone.

[Bojay1997]

First of all I am a very respected collector who in no means wants to just trash talk. I have been on these boards a long time and have supported what most retro gamers have done here. To let you know that my profession is in the education/counseling background. I am also big into history and details. I do like to point out the obvious though...if we dont have the background information on a title other than finding it, how do we really know if the game was released in game stores? I take official game lists very seriously. An official list to me is games that have been proven to be sold in retail. Anything else should be considered a prototype. If we cannot prove if the game was released and sold, then we do not know. That is the big point I am trying to say. I could give a rats ass about a complete set. I just want to make a point. Others on this board have spoken about this as well. People can make mistakes. I dont think DP are mistake free. If some people did not question things, then the guide wouldn't get better. I guess I am just taken back at how defensive some people have gotten into me questioning this title as a RELEASED TITLE. In the end, we still dont know shit about it. I am sure that it will stay on the OFFICIAL RELEASES list, but again, we still dont know if it was.

That is my whole big point.

P.S. the Space Hulk thing was not resolved, other than not a single complete copy being posted. As of now it is not being considered released, with the information we have. Again, it was released after longbox games were done. A perfect example of 1. Yes we have found one. 2. No, we don't have official information about it.

With that I am going to bed and am going to try to think nice thoughts about the nice people on this forum I have met.

I find it hard to believe that you are a professional educator given your inappropriate use of foul language on this board and I also have no idea what your specific contributions have been to the collecting community other than to keep picking fights with these threads. In any event, unless you actually worked for any of the game companies or distributors in the classic era, you can never prove for sure that any game was released at retail. All we have ever been able to go by is what people recall and what people find. The RCA Bingo game is as valid a release as any of the other titles, it's just rarer in the sense that none of us have it or have seen it on Ebay. That doesn't mean it wasn't released and while you are free to believe what you want, that doesn't make it the truth.

As for Space Hulk, there have now been two sold on Ebay, including one that was sold literally a few months ago. We will never have "official" information about it other than the fact that it exists. We will never have official information about any game as even the biggest sites like Amazon and others often list games that never come out or contain errors which never get corrected. This whole hobby is based on a certain level of informality and if you don't like it, you can always create your own guide or directory based on whatever official information you claim to have.

I'm all for debate, but there is a civil and appropriate way to have a discussion and it doesn't involve inflamatory language or repeatedly challenging the very people who have made this amazing community possible.

[y-bot]

I have no idea what kind of argument you've had about Space Hulk (whatever the hell that is) elsewhere but I don't see where swlovinist was inappropriate here in this thread. I think so far this is a healthy debate. Doesn't each section of the DP Guide have a heading "prototypes and one of a kind" or something like that? If only one copy of a game has ever been seen isn't that where it belongs? Is the new guide going to list Atari 2600 Birthday Mania, Red Sea Crossing and Gamma Attack in the regular US retail release sections? I think Studio II Bingo falls in to the same category as those carts.

y-bot

[Mayhem]

When Red Sea Crossing was apparently sold mail order only (from what I recall), then it makes the distinction a little harder. It doesn't appear to have been sold at retail. It depends what the qualification is to not be in the homebrew section, and instead in the US or non-US sections. After all, the Atari Club releases (eg. Quadrun, Crazy Climber) were for the most part not sold in shops either, just mail order.

[swlovinist]

I find it hard to believe that you are a professional educator given your inappropriate use of foul language on this board and I also have no idea what your specific contributions have been to the collecting community other than to keep picking fights with these threads. In any event, unless you actually worked for any of the game companies or distributors in the classic era, you can never prove for sure that any game was released at retail. All we have ever been able to go by is what people recall and what people find. The RCA Bingo game is as valid a release as any of the other titles, it's just rarer in the sense that none of us have it or have seen it on Ebay. That doesn't mean it wasn't released and while you are free to believe what you want, that doesn't make it the truth.

As for Space Hulk, there have now been two sold on Ebay, including one that was sold literally a few months ago. We will never have "official" information about it other than the fact that it exists. We will never have official information about any game as even the biggest sites like Amazon and others often list games that never come out or contain errors which never get corrected. This whole hobby is based on a certain level of informality and if you don't like it, you can always create your own guide or directory based on whatever official information you claim to have.

I'm all for debate, but there is a civil and appropriate way to have a discussion and it doesn't involve inflamatory language or repeatedly challenging the very people who have made this amazing community possible.

I dont know why you seem to attacking me so much, but I bring up some good points. The fact of the matter is that this game brings up controversy. As a counselor, I encourage others to inquire and question. This is a perfect example. Maybe if you do an educated research of some of my other posts, you see that I dont just come on here and flame. I don't think coming on here and attacking me personally is civil at all.

oh yeah, sorry if I offended anyone with "rats ass" :)

[digitalpress]

Doesn't each section of the DP Guide have a heading "prototypes and one of a kind" or something like that? If only one copy of a game has ever been seen isn't that where it belongs? Is the new guide going to list Atari 2600 Birthday Mania, Red Sea Crossing and Gamma Attack in the regular US retail release sections? I think Studio II Bingo falls in to the same category as those carts.

y-bot

My friend... NONE of the games you cite as similar examples were ever observed in bona fide retail packaging. This is a rather huge difference, and precisely what separates RCA Bingo from them.

[vintagegamecrazy]

Birthday Mania was confirmed to be sold at least minimally in the midwest, Red Sea Crossing is listed in the Homebrews section and Gamma Attack has not been confirmed as being sold or as a prototype as of yet. Bingo has a box and is rare like Birthday mania and other rare 2600 games with only a few known so it belongs in the US section as Joe stated.

[swlovinist]

I guess my whole big thing that I want to bring up is should we put any game in theoffical release section if we really dont know if it was sold? I just think that any game that exists in the quanity of (1) and has not been confirmed to be released should be in another seperate section. Heck, we could call it a "in question of being officially released" section. I just think that putting games that we dont know were sold to the public in offical releases can possibly skew accurate history. In the end, we dont really know about this one if it was "sold" back in the day. Doesnt that qualify it as a game "in question"? Offical releases to myself are games that were well... were released and sold to the public. Any game in question without actual proof or documentation should be put in another section.

PS
I have also added some clarity to my original post on what I was trying to say.

[TheRedEye]

Personally I lean toward Joe's side with this one, but I do want to point out that it is entirely possible for an unreleased game to have proper packaging and the like. If someone were to come forward with a very authentic-appearing copy of Propellar Arena for the Dreamcast - hell, if we could somehow confirm it was authentically manufactured - would it go in the released section? It's entirely possible that the game was manufactured and then destroyed, or met some similar fate. Another example would be the variant version of Wally Bear on the NES that I owned at one point. Entirely different publisher than the one we're aware of, complete with a glossy professional label, but probably not released at retail.

Just throwing some fuel into the fire, it's an interesting debate.

[Bojay1997]

Personally I lean toward Joe's side with this one, but I do want to point out that it is entirely possible for an unreleased game to have proper packaging and the like. If someone were to come forward with a very authentic-appearing copy of Propellar Arena for the Dreamcast - hell, if we could somehow confirm it was authentically manufactured - would it go in the released section? It's entirely possible that the game was manufactured and then destroyed, or met some similar fate. Another example would be the variant version of Wally Bear on the NES that I owned at one point. Entirely different publisher than the one we're aware of, complete with a glossy professional label, but probably not released at retail.

Just throwing some fuel into the fire, it's an interesting debate.

Sure, but given the size of the Dreamcast collector's community, if it was ever released in a retail store, someone would know it. On a system like the Studio II, where few if any of us would claim to be an expert or avid collector, there just aren't enough people out there looking for games or who owned one back in the day to make this determination either way. In cases like that, you just have to go with the evidence you find and in this situation, the fact that several respected members of this community have physically inspected the game and packaging is strong proof that it did get a retail release. I'm not in support of creating a separate section because it's just not warranted. A complete RCA Studio II collection includes Bingo in my opinion and if anyone disagrees, they don't have to make an effort to find it for their own personal collection. It's as simple as that.

[Tempest]

Myself and several others saw this game, in a retail box, firsthand at PhillyClassic (2, I believe, in 2001). The guy wouldn't part with it. Al Backiel and I'm pretty sure Matt Reichert can confirm this, as we were three people who certainly did care.

Hi guys,

I can indeed vouch for this ultra rare cart. I remember seeing it at PC 2 quite clearly. Back then several people had little collections set up on their tables in addition to selling stuff (I myself had an Arcadia 2001 setup going). One of the guys there had an RCA Studio II collection all set up. This guy had everything! IIRC he said he got it from some mom and pop store in PA that had this dislpay in the back of their store for years.

Anyway, back to the cart. From what I remember it was packaged in a large rectangular box, like TV Schoolhouse I. It was blue and it was part of the TV Casino series (I remember this because I laughed at how "Bingo was now considered to be gambling"). The box had several bingo cards and tokens in it, but I honestly don't remember seeing the cart itself (although I'm sure it was in the box). The guy didn't actually demo the game, and as Joe pointed out, he wouldn't sell it at any price.

If I had to guess I'd say that this was a very limited production run game. It was probably the last game RCA produced, and they probably either only sent out a handful of copies, or only sent them out to dealers to demo. I'd say that it might have been only available via mail order, but the guy said he got it from the mom and pop electronics store with the rest of their stuff, so it was at least sent out to dealers and not a mail order only title.

It was definitely a production game though, it was not a prototype.

I hope this helps to clear up the mystery a bit (or maybe I just added to it?).

Tempest

[vintagegamecrazy]

If Gamma Attack is checked and doesn't have prototype parts inside of it then I would consider it an actual release, it doesn't make sense as a homebrew since it wasn't made by a private person and sold by another company AFAIK. Cubicolor and Actionauts I don't know, I would add them to the US releases section since they were worked on when he was part of Imagic but he kept the rights and released it on his own. Either way though it could go in the homebrew section as well.

[digitalpress]

It was definitely a production game though, it was not a prototype.

Thanks for the input Matt! You've actually cleared up some of the fuzzy images I had about that day. Why on earth did none of us have a camera on hand? I'm quite sure that anyone who saw the genuine article there would agree that this was no probotype but a bona fide super-rare game.

I wonder where that guy is now? And why on earth did none of us get his contact information!?

[swlovinist]

We know it was a production game, but we still dont know if it was sold in stores. I know that at this point there are people on both sides on this one, and it wil stay as an offical release...although at this point we still dont know if it was released back in the day and sold to the public. I guess FOR ME offical releases dont include things such as games like gamma attack, Bingo II, Blockbuster World Chamipionship Cart II etc etc. I guess we will have to agree to disagree. The world may never know on this one.

[Bojay1997]

If you're only considering games sold on retail shelves as being 'official releases' then you're excluding games only available through mail order (via catalogs, magazine ads, promotions, etc.). For example, VCS Crazy Climber was never available in stores - only through Atari's own in-house magazine. Does that make it any less an official release? Perhaps Bingo was released in a similar fashion, which might explain why there are so few around.

That definition is too narrow. There have been several games released for modern consoles that were on-line or mail order retailer exclusives. The one I think is the best example is Daytona USA for the Netlink. That was only available by calling Sega Parts. It was nonetheless an official release. Of course, most of the Telegames batch of Jaguar games were pretty much mail order only (although copies were purchased and sold by a few other Atari vendors) and I don't know of any physical brick and mortar store that actually stocked them. It would also exclude games from the classic era that were mail order only as you mentioned. Is Chase the Chuckwagon an unofficial release because it was only available as a mail away premium? Seriously, you need to give this fight up. Bingo is official, end of story.

[DreamTR]

Heh, look at all the official GBA releases that popped up not sold in stores. I had to search like crazy for those. And Mountain Bike Rally/Speed Racer for SNES? WOW.

[orangest]

where does sonic adventure: limited edition for the dreamcast lie? it is listed as an official release, but it was never officially available for purchase. does the fact that it was available as a rental make the difference? to me, it seems that it being an incomplete version available only for rental or in store kiosks would put it more in the demo category.

[ProgrammingAce]

If someone were to come forward with a very authentic-appearing copy of Propellar Arena for the Dreamcast - hell, if we could somehow confirm it was authentically manufactured - would it go in the released section? It's entirely possible that the game was manufactured and then destroyed, or met some similar fate.

Propeller Arena wasn't sent to press, but i do have an electronic copy of the artwork if anyone is interested.

Half-Life for DC was sent to press, but destroyed. We should add that to the official released list. I personally own a copy of the stamped, sealed, complete disc. There are 11 other copies... have fun.

[swlovinist]

I count mail order games....they were SOLD to the public. To clarify. I personally would not count Half Life...it wasnt released to the public. Again, the DP guide is going to do what it feels right. I just see that any game that you were not able to buy in a different category.

[y-bot]

I count mail order games....they were SOLD to the public. To clarify. I personally would not count Half Life...it wasnt released to the public. Again, the DP guide is going to do what it feels right. I just see that any game that you were not able to buy in a different category.


This makes sense to me. If a game was available for purchase in store or mail-order it's a "retail" release. If there was no way to buy it when it was released it's not. So to me something that was available as a rental only is not a "retail" release. Back to Bingo, I just don't get how something made by a major manufacturer has only turned up once. Those one only Atari 2600 games were made by tiny companies who probably only made 20-200 games to begin with. If there was a story about how Bingo was recalled and destroyed but a few got out or something that would make sense. A company like RCA wouldn't manufacture something in quantities of less than thousands. I did see Bingo on a list for one of those Studio II clones though so who knows.

y-bot

[Bojay1997]

This makes sense to me. If a game was available for purchase in store or mail-order it's a "retail" release. If there was no way to buy it when it was released it's not. So to me something that was available as a rental only is not a "retail" release. Back to Bingo, I just don't get how something made by a major manufacturer has only turned up once. Those one only Atari 2600 games were made by tiny companies who probably only made 20-200 games to begin with. If there was a story about how Bingo was recalled and destroyed but a few got out or something that would make sense. A company like RCA wouldn't manufacture something in quantities of less than thousands. I did see Bingo on a list for one of those Studio II clones though so who knows.

y-bot

At the end of a product life-cycle, RCA was known to release very small quantities of the final software titles. A perfect example of this is some of the release numbers on the last RCA CED videodiscs. The pressing numbers I have seen for some of them are miniscule (under 500 in some cases). Given that there are only a very limited number of RCA Studio II collectors and who knows how many original owners, I would not be surprised if RCA pressed very small quantities of this particular game.

[y-bot]

At the end of a product life-cycle, RCA was known to release very small quantities of the final software titles. A perfect example of this is some of the release numbers on the last RCA CED videodiscs. The pressing numbers I have seen for some of them are miniscule (under 500 in some cases). Given that there are only a very limited number of RCA Studio II collectors and who knows how many original owners, I would not be surprised if RCA pressed very small quantities of this particular game.

How many of those low print run CEDs have turned up? I think that would be a good comparison. I know I have a few of the 1986 ones that are supposed to be rare. Wanna buy my collection?

y-bot

[ProgrammingAce]

Propeller Arena wasn't sent to press, but i do have an electronic copy of the artwork if anyone is interested.

http://gamerhistory.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4804

[ubersaurus]

I'm inclined to believe that's the proper explanation. End of life cycle, limited production run for an already unpopular and low-production system.

Really, how much Studio II stuff is still floating around? Odds are a good chunk was tossed out by people who didn't care, or liquidated. Add that to a small production run, and it's a wonder any copy of complete Bingo exists.

[Qixmaster]

just reading this interesting thread and thought i should note a little about the space hulk.

I found at a flea market in Eugene OR sometime in the Winter of 2003 or 2004 (can't recall). kevincure thought it was "just a little harder to find" than the jewel case space hulk, so I tossed it up on ebay.

Brinn1 won it for like 23 bucks or something.
and....
he just recently sold it on ebay.

THAT is the only Space Hulk long box out there, and as far as i'm concerned, it most likely is the only one.

Springfield, Oregon at the time of the Playstation one, was home to one of the Sony Disc Manufacturing plants. Springfield is right next to Eugene (where said game was found). What i 'm thinking is possibly an employee or someone made up an extra disc and took a mock up box along with them to house the game and it some how ended up at the local flea market. Not sure though... it's just my theory on it now.

I talked with a guy who used to work there and he told me employees had no special privileges for getting free games or anything like that, thus why i am speculating that there was an extra disc sitting around and someone just grabbed it and found one of those boxes at Sony and kept it. But as it is, being that they couldn't get free games, Eugene/Springfield really is a mecca for PS1 goodness.

[General Catastrophe]

Bit of a bump from the dead, but this thread was among those that inspired the ongoing Studio II thread over at AtariAge:

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/209519-rca-studio-ii-gold-mine-an-interview-with-the-studio-2-production-manager/

...and I wanted to post a few updates on what is currently known and/or reasoned about the US Bingo:

1) It was programmed here in the US, by Andy Modla. He confirmed this, but did not know if it received a US release.

2) The overseas version, as with most all of the other overseas versions of US games, is certainly identical to it's American counterpart as a ROM, yet not in terms of packaging. Foreign copies do not include the extra tokens and cards seen in the US copy at PC2K1, and the manual for at least one of the overseas Bingo releases makes no mention of any such extra materials.

3) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtZEsXrE3Z4 It was intended to be among the games for the unreleased Studio III tech that seems to have become the basis of the various overseas clones. Notice the color in the video.

4) Gameplay of the US version was recallled by a previous poster as being little more than displaying Bingo numbers, which matches the gameplay footage of the foreign version above. Also, the US version likely had the same ability to play the Bingo tune in an example of some very early sound effects.

5) IT WAS LIKELY NOT A RETAIL RELEASE, AND SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS SUCH. I feel that swvolinist is correct in his assertion that it should be removed from the lists of official US releases. Having been looking into this for some time now and having talked to several folks from back in the day, it seems that any US versions, or simply just a single US version, were part of a very small test-run that RCA would have produced at their Deptford, NJ locations but which never saw a full production run along with all of the other, confirmed US releases down at the plant in Swannanoa, NC where all of the systems and games were made. It was programmed, it was certainly intended for US release, a pre-production test run of very very few copies was almost certainly produced, but Bingo itself was never made in anything close to large numbers and never actually saw a US retail release for whatever reasons. As such, it should not be considered part of a full US set as nobody would have had a chance to actually purchase it during the retail lifespan of the Studio II.