Petition against Ebay feedback changes

[Vroomfunkel]

Are you an eBay seller? Perturbed about the proposal to disallow sellers from leaving negative or neutral feedback? Want to do something about it?

I am proposing that sellers get together to boycott eBay's feedback system once the new changes come into play - after all, if you can only leave one kind of feedback then what's the point in leaving any at all?

It's not like the seller boycott, which was an easily ignored blip - and was never going to be kept up, because sellers need to keep selling. On the other hand, this can go on for as long as necessary - and you can keep on selling at the same time. If enough people join in, then it could have an impact ...

http://www.gopetition.co.uk/online/17360.html

Well, nothing ventured nothing gained!

[SegaAges]

Petition signed!

[gepeto]

Why the change?

[jonjandran]

I for one like the change.

No more retaliatory feedback from sellers. Yes. :moon:

[Vroomfunkel]

You're entitled to your opinion - my guess is that you don't sell on eBay very much.

I have been buying and selling on eBay for a good while. I have five negatives (out of >1000 total). Three of these are from non-paying buyers. Two are from people who decided there was a problem with the item I sent, but didn't bother to even try to contact me before leaving their feedback. None are from sellers, despite the fact that I have left several negatives for sellers in my time.

It's simply not the case that sellers on eBay are the only ones giving out retaliatory negs. In fact, based on my own experience, I suspect that buyers are worse culprits for this than sellers on the whole.

Buyers have six different ways to leave a bad rating for a seller - all of which can result in the seller being suspended. Sellers only have one avenue noting a bad experience with a buyer - so the system is already hugely imbalanced as it is.

[swlovinist]

You're entitled to your opinion - my guess is that you don't sell on eBay very much.

I have been buying and selling on eBay for a good while. I have five negatives (out of >1000 total). Three of these are from non-paying buyers. Two are from people who decided there was a problem with the item I sent, but didn't bother to even try to contact me before leaving their feedback. None are from sellers, despite the fact that I have left several negatives for sellers in my time.

It's simply not the case that sellers on eBay are the only ones giving out retaliatory negs. In fact, based on my own experience, I suspect that buyers are worse culprits for this than sellers on the whole.

Buyers have six different ways to leave a bad rating for a seller - all of which can result in the seller being suspended. Sellers only have one avenue noting a bad experience with a buyer - so the system is already hugely imbalanced as it is.

I agree with this. I have been selling(and buying) on ebay for 8 years. I have a rating of over 800, with about 8 negatives. At least half of those are from fraudulent buyers. At least two of the feedbacks could have been prevented with the buyer emailing me the problem. Ebay is just loosing focus and care of the people that gave it all its money. If you piss off the sellers enough, then you will see less product sold. That my friend, is bad for everyone. I am all for a fair feedback system, the one current is not fair. I have spoken with my wallet, I know sell about half as much as I once did. Ebay is loosing its hold and will continue to do its own thing and not listen. If enough sellers cut back, they will get the message. It will be the only way they will listen, when they are not making as much.

[Cornelius]

I'm not sure it is a bad change. I'm not sure it is good either. I AM sure that the way it works right now is broken.

In my limited experience, if the changes had already been in place, I would have been better off. Or rather, the eBay system would have worked better. The only times I would have left negs for sellers were well-deserved ("item no longer for sale", then they re-listed), but they clearly had a history of retaliatory negs. Yes, I'm a coward w/ feedback, so I didn't leave any.

With buyers, the only time I'd have left negs is if they didn't pay, and so far none of those people have responded to the unpaid item disputes, and they were all 0 or 1 on the feedback scale. And again, I haven't felt a retaliatory negative would be worth it on these newbies. In the new system any negative feedback they left would be removed. Also, under the current system I don't feel I have any significant control over who bids on my stuff based on feedback. Maybe I can cancel any bid I choose (?), but that goes against the current eBay policies as I understand them.

I'm willing to give it a shot, anyway. I figure there is little point in having a scale that goes from 0 to 100 if the part from 0-95 is never used. Heck I'm not sure I've seen a seller with less than 97%. More negs will probably be handed out in this system, but that's okay.

[jonjandran]

You're entitled to your opinion - my guess is that you don't sell on eBay very much.


And you would be 100% wrong.

1900 feedback as a seller. A Power Seller most of that time.
I've given negative feedback to a few sellers who didn't pay or were liars or jerks.
Never did a bit of good. They kept buying and people kept selling to them no matter what negative I gave them.

99.9% of the power Sellers on Ebay ONLY give retaliatory feedback.
Click on almost any power Seller and you will see this.
It's high time this was stopped.

It's not going to solve all the feedback problems but it will make it a LOT easier to see the "true" reputation of a seller when buyers aren't scared to give a negative.

[suppafly]

Signed!

[gepeto]

I am not a seller but any time you take away a voice that seems like bad news. How can one tell if someone is a slow payer or non payer?

[jonjandran]

What I always ask is what does it matter.

If a buyer has 100 negative a seller will still sell to him without looking at his feedback.

Once he clicks the BIN button what are you going to do.

And if it is an auction, who has the time to monitor auctions all the time and then cancel a bidder if it looks like they are a bad buyer?

Feedback for a buyer really doesn't mean anything IMO.

And all the sellers complaining are being silly. If you are a good seller you have nothing to worry about and if you get a ridiculous negative or two any reasonable buyer will see it was a foolish negative.

[The 1 2 P]

The feedback system is very broken but I don't feel that this will help. As a seller I've had to leave lots of negative feedback for shady buyers. Also as a seller, I have to admit that you are always at the mercy of unscrupulous buyers. This is why I have seperate user names: one for buying and one for selling. As a buyer I will NEVER get a negative because I always pay on time. But as a seller I have been the victim of a retailatory negative and another one from an idiot who didn't comprehend the auctions instructions.

I personally think ebay should let the whole ebay community(buyers and sellers) decide on what they think the new feedback system should evolve to, instead of telling us what it "should" be.

[Vroomfunkel]

Well, everyone has a view on this it seems.

I have yet to hear anyone who can reasonably explain to me why I should bother to leave any feedback at all as a seller under the new system. Nor why it should continue to be called "feedback", since it clearly isn't going to be feedback any more - it's just an 'auctions won' counter.

[Ed Oscuro]

It's not going to solve all the feedback problems but it will make it a LOT easier to see the "true" reputation of a seller when buyers aren't scared to give a negative.
I see jon's point here.

The problem is, the community won't be ready for a change and suddenly you'll have negs cropping up all the time. Before, people didn't leave negs for this reason - they realized they would get negged back. It was broken, but it also meant that unless things went very wrong that people would refrain from writing them in before they thought.

This could cause problems, with people suddenly wondering why bunches of sellers have lots of negatives - would shake up the power sellers quite a bit, as they'd naturally get most of them.

But as Jon says, people are leaving negs often for a good reason.

I myself have decided not to leave feedback many times even though I probably would have wanted to give a neutral, for example, based on item condition and packaging...

[jonjandran]

I see jon's point here.

The problem is, the community won't be ready for a change and suddenly you'll have negs cropping up all the time. Before, people didn't leave negs for this reason - they realized they would get negged back. It was broken, but it also meant that unless things went very wrong that people would refrain from writing them in before they thought.

This could cause problems, with people suddenly wondering why bunches of sellers have lots of negatives - would shake up the power sellers quite a bit, as they'd naturally get most of them.


I see your point there and I agree that would cause some problems. I hadn't really thought about that.

Some people will probably leave negatives at the drop of a hat now. But with the chance to respond hopefully reasoning people will see that it's just a lousy buyer being retarded.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Thsi would work if eBay would do this when a buyer tries to leave a negative:

Ask if he's communicated with the seller;
Ask him again;
Ask him ONE LAST TIME if he thinks there's no other option.

Once the negative has been filed, the seller should have the following options:

Dispute the negative by proving that he never got any sort of communication from the buyer;
Dispute the neg by claiming the negative was left before the item ever arrived (for those stupid buyers who are so desperate when the game they paid $2 media mail shipping for just doesn't get there).

Or something like that. But it's eBay, they don't give a fuck about anyone but the people who give them money.

[MachineGex]

Anyone remember way back when Ebay turned positive feedback into neutral when the person who left the feedback turned into a non-registered user? They only did it for a small amount of time but I have 2 neutrals because of this policy. They stopped doing it right away, but they didn't change the feedback to positive. That was when I realized Ebay just didn't give a shit.

There is a new auction site for games called gamegavel.com, anyone hear of it yet? ;)

[jgenotte]

I for one like the change.

No more retaliatory feedback from sellers. Yes. :moon:

I couldnt agree more. The only input from sellers should be as to if the buyer paid or not.

-james

[orangest]

I couldnt agree more. The only input from sellers should be as to if the buyer paid or not.

-james

and if a buyer doesn't pay, he/she should either get no feedback, or get a positive with a description of their bad practice? how is that an improvement? why should non-paying bidders be immune from negative feedback that warns others of their behavior?

[tkusina]

as a buyer this change is great.

as someone else on these boards suggested and i agree with is, have it so that the buyers and sellers feedback does not get posted until both leave feedback. this way the buyer and seller cannot see what is being left until they both have already left their feedback. this would eliminate ret. feedback, promote more accurate feedback

. have a time limit too that says you must leave feedback within 3 weeks (or whatever), if you don't in that timeframe you lose the option to do so.

[The 1 2 P]

Thsi would work if eBay would do this when a buyer tries to leave a negative:

Ask if he's communicated with the seller;
Ask him again;
Ask him ONE LAST TIME if he thinks there's no other option.

Once the negative has been filed, the seller should have the following options:

Dispute the negative by proving that he never got any sort of communication from the buyer;
Dispute the neg by claiming the negative was left before the item ever arrived (for those stupid buyers who are so desperate when the game they paid $2 media mail shipping for just doesn't get there).

Or something like that. But it's eBay, they don't give a fuck about anyone but the people who give them money.

Thats not a bad idea. But ebay would never go for it because it makes too much common sense:bad-words:

[ronclon]

There is something you people who are saying that this change is good are missing, buyer buys something and receives it, he then decides he didn't like the shipping charge. buyer now says he wants a partial refund or he will give a negative.

Buyer doesn't get his item in 3 days, buyer deciees it is to long to wait . negative given.

Other seller who doesn't like that you have priced your items lower than his buys up 20 of your auctions then leaves negs for all. Remember now all feedback is going to count.

There are going to be countless scenarios where things like this will now happen.

You have to look at both sides of this.

Personlally I am more upset about the fee hikes and other rule changes. But this one will definately cause a lot of problems.

I don't like the retaliatory feedback either but there has to be a better way than this.

[jonjandran]

There is something you people who are saying that this change is good are missing, buyer buys something and receives it, he then decides he didn't like the shipping charge. buyer now says he wants a partial refund or he will give a negative.

Buyer doesn't get his item in 3 days, buyer deciees it is to long to wait . negative given.

Other seller who doesn't like that you have priced your items lower than his buys up 20 of your auctions then leaves negs for all. Remember now all feedback is going to count.



Like I said you will get a ridiculous buyer now and then who will give a negative but that has always been the case. Buyers can tell the difference between earned and erroneous negatives.

And that last scenario is fraud and can get a seller banned and have legal repercussions and Ebay would do something about it. They take seller to seller threats and actions VERY seriously.

[AKay]

These changes have affected me dramatically. I just dont have enough profit now to even justify listing stuff on ebay. I wish there was a viable alternative available right now that would pump as much into advertising/cross promotion as ebay did.

[Cornelius]

There is something you people who are saying that this change is good are missing, buyer buys something and receives it, he then decides he didn't like the shipping charge. buyer now says he wants a partial refund or he will give a negative.

This is called feedback extortion, and my understanding is that eBay takes it very seriously. I can't speak from experience on how quickly they act, but this scenario is specifically addressed in their FAQ on the upcoming feedback changes.

I can't believe I'm defending eBay in so many recent posts, since on the whole I think they could stand to improve in lots of ways.