RetroDuo NES/SNES Clone Official Thread. Castlevania III, StarFox WORK, SMRPG WARNING

[NayusDante]

Were you using an HDTV? SNES should look decent over S-Video, but that's about it. The RD is best coupled with a classic CRT.

[Sonicwolf]

Yes I was using an LCD HDTV. I would have swapped tv's to check the problem but the SNES looked fine on the same tv while the RD did not.

Edit* Plus, The Nintendo Entertainment System side of the RetroDuo looked just fine through the same cords that the SNES looked like ass on.

[Tomato]

My unit plays SNES better with both the RCA and the S-Video plugged in on my LCD TV. Haven't ever tried it on a CRT set. I did start getting intermittent scrolling scan lines on the SNES side only when I fixed my NES sound.

That sucks about SonicWolf's unit. As soon as one of these famiclone companies get's its head around the idea of quality control, they'll have pretty much ended the debate over which is best. Of course, that's likely also when they'll start getting sued...

[HurricaneAndrew]

I don't need a combination NES/SNES console anymore, but when I did I should have gotten a RetroDuo rather than the P.O.S. FC Twin.

The first problem with the FC Twin was I paid $70 at a local gaming store (lets just say the name rhymes with clackers), which was a rip off. I could have found it anywhere else for $50 at the most. Or I could have just bought the damned $70 SNES, which was all I needed anyway.

The second problem was the poor workmanship on the console. Right out of the box, the AC adapter broke. Luckily, I had a NES adapter laying around and that worked. Then later on, the SNES pin connector broke loose inside the system, rendering that part that I bought it for useless.

The only thing half-assed good about the system were the SNES style controllers that I still occasionally use with my SNES ($10, from a friend, take that Slacker's).

[StoneAgeGamer]

Sonicwolf, about 25% of the time when we receive a return on a clone they work perfectly fine on our TVs here.

Not sure why this happens. I've had customers who have even claimed to test it on multiple TVs and it doesn't work on any of them. Many of these customers also just want replacements so I assume they aren't trying just to get their money back on a purchase they regret.

[betamax001]

I might get one of these retroduos...the black and red one is very sexy and buy.com has them for 34.99 which is pretty cheap since you get 2 systems. Granted I will probably get the real deal NES and a SNES in the future, this is will be fine for now. Plus then I dont have to worry about getting a NES that has a crappy PIN connector and I can just have that be for show and use this for games.

One thing I don't like about this is the lack of NES controller inputs. I mean is that so hard? just have the 2 SNES ports on one side and the 2 NES ones on the other. Then I can play with the Zapper and NES Advantage

"Or the Power Glove"

""OK maybe not the Power Glove""

[Sonicwolf]

Many of these customers also just want replacements so I assume they aren't trying just to get their money back on a purchase they regret.

I would have gotten a replacement but they had none left and wouldnt for about a month so I decided to use the money and get another elsewhere.

[Sonicwolf]

I got another Retro Duo off of eBay today and...

Its also partially split in half. Same problems with my big tv as before but fine image on the others... The split in half thing makes me want to cry. :(

[NayusDante]

Split in half? Is the image scrolling up the screen then splitting and each half going off opposite sides of the screen? That's the probelm I had with my stero receiver, since it does 720p upscaling. You simply can't apply modern filters and scalers to a 240p signal or whatever it's outputting.

If that's not it, then try the same system on an analog CRT. If it still has problems, then something's up with QC at Innex.

I really wanted to use my RD as my main NES/SNES machine on my big LCD, but the scaling problems just didn't make it possible. I DID notice the weird improvements when I plugged in both S-Video and composite at the same time, but I ended up getting a CRT TV and using my original NES and SNES instead. I still love my RD, and it's in my bedroom now as a spare.

[Tomato]

It's pretty good as a spare, all things considered.

[Sonicwolf]

I tried to plug the RetroDuo into the rear inputs of the HDTV instead of the side ones and voila, it works fine. Aside from the plastic quality fail, it works beautifully now! :D

[kedawa]

Sounds like your tv is a backdoor beauty.

[Apocales]

Hey guys before I buy one of these machines, what sort of cables do they come with or which ones do I need to buy? And what is the cheapest place to buy em?

[kedawa]

Composite AV and s-video cables are included. There is no RF output.

[NayusDante]

I just got back from a party, which I took my RetroDuo to. While we were waiting for everyone to arrive, I started playing Mega Man 2, which I finished by the time everyone was there. From there, it was Mega Man Soccer and collaborative/alternating rounds of Super Mario World. In between, we got a hell of a laugh from Sesame Street 123, which I brought as a joke. One guy actually played it for a bit o_O.

To complement the quality of my particular unit, the whole thing DROPPED OFF THE SHELF and hit the tile floor. This did not affect our game of Mega Man Soccer.

[Sonicwolf]

DROPPED OFF THE SHELF and hit the tile floor. This did not affect our game of Mega Man Soccer.

Lucky. The two units I have had both came apart when I touched them. LOL

[betamax001]

What I wonder is if you (or can) plug in a Super Scope, does it work on NES Zapper games? Becuase THAT would be awesome!

"IM KILLING DUCKS WITH A BAZOOKA!"

[Sonicwolf]

What I wonder is if you (or can) plug in a Super Scope, does it work on NES Zapper games? Becuase THAT would be awesome!

"IM KILLING DUCKS WITH A BAZOOKA!"

I have heard that the superscope does not work with NES lightgun games on the retro duo.

[betamax001]

Well that sucks. : /

"There goes my 45 second dream of killing ducks with a bazooka...."

[Lanf]

Just wanted to point out that I tested my PowerPak with the RetroDuo and .... it does NOT work at all. :bawling:

However, my PowerPAk is working perfectly with both NES 1 and NES 2.

[Sonicwolf]

One thing I noticed with the RetroDuo is that the controller are really great. The FC Twin's controllers were just crap but these ones are comfortable and usable.

[NayusDante]

One thing I noticed with the RetroDuo is that the controller are really great. The FC Twin's controllers were just crap but these ones are comfortable and usable.

Did you do anything to fix the godawful D-pad? If it weren't for those things, I might actually use them... The buttons are acceptable, I just can't stand that pad.

[Sonicwolf]

Did you do anything to fix the godawful D-pad? If it weren't for those things, I might actually use them... The buttons are acceptable, I just can't stand that pad.

The D-pad isnt the greatest but its fine for me.

[ZombieRyushu]

I also have headaches with the Retro Duo's Y=B and B =A Control scheme, is there a way to fix that? Or do I need to make a NES Dongle? It actually hurts my right hand.

[darth]

Why don't you like Y=B and B=A? That's the right order. Since A is usually the jump button in most games, shouldn't it be to the right and down a bit?

[Leo_A]

The RetroDuo does it the right way.

If the buttons were rigidly mapped to match the letters of a SuperNes controller, they'd be reversed and at a poor angle to do something like hold down a run button and jump with the other.

You must have trouble playing SuperNes games then?

[NayusDante]

I honestly can't deal with anything OTHER than that control scheme. The way I look at it, the four buttons correspond with a human figure. At the bottom is jump, because you're using your feet. Y is shoot, because that's the character's right hand. A is usually an action button, since that's your free hand. X is usually a menu or something, since that's where the head is. If anything, it's modern games that screw it up. Why anyone would map jump to the top button is beyond me.

[Troglodyte]

I finally acquired working versions of Super Mario RPG and Kirby Super Star.
I have yet to get Kirby's Dreamland 3 to work.

I am wondering if there is a way to disquingish working and non-working versions of these games. The only thing I can think about as a possibility is that there maybe a difference in the numbering codes printed on the outer edge of the plastic cartridges near the PCB.

For instance here is the numbering scheme from my working Super Mario RPG cart:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Back Plastic: WB-15
Front Plastic: WF(A)-5

Here are the numbers from my working cartridges of Kirby Super Star (I bought several offline in order to try and find a working version).
-----------------------------------------------
First working cart:
----------------------
Back Plastic: WB-4
Front Plastic: WF(A)-2

Second working cart:
----------------------
Back Plastic: WB-2
Front Plastic: WF(A)-4

Third working cart:
Back Plastic: WB-1
Front Plastic: WF(A)-4

Non-working carts:
------------------
Kirby Super Deluxe (Super Famicom)
Back Plastic: WB-3
Front Plastic: WF-9

Kirby Super Star
First non-working version:
Back Plastic: WB-3
Front Platic: WF(A)-3

Second non-working version:
Front Plastic: WB-1
Back Plastic: WF(A)-1

Non working version of Kirby's Dreamland 3
-----------------------------------------
WB-1
WF(A)-2

I will be working on purchasing several copies of Dreamland 3 in the near future when I have the funds to see if I can find a working version before I try and resell them.

I have yet to try and inspect or mod these carts in anyway. The intrusting thing I noticed is that for both the working versions of RPG and Super Star, it takes many times of trying to get a copy of them to work. And this typically means taking the cart out many times and reinserting it. Restarting the system or turning it of does not seem to cause it to work.

[bacteria]

My Super Mario RPG Legend of the Seven Stars works on the Retro Duo.

It says on the front of the cart: SNS-ARWE-USA

On the back: Model no SNS-006 (c) 1991 Rd/Enr 1992 Nintendo. Made in Japan. SNS-USA/Can-1

[Troglodyte]

@bacteria,
But does your copy of Super Mario RPG work consistently
all of the time? I checked the number on the front of the
cartridge that you are referring to on my copy of RPG,
and it is the same as yours.

As for my versions of Kirby Super Star, the numbers on
the front of the cartridge are identical among each copy.
So I do not think that these numbers are related to version
numbers.

My original post referrers to the difference among numbers
that appear on the inside of the cartridge near the end of
the circuit board that sticks out of the cartridge. As these
numbers seem to differ between cartridges of the same game.

Also, the numbers on the outer back of the cartridge do not differ.
I believe this is because these numbers refer to the model number
of the SNES system itself or related copyright holdings.

[Troglodyte]

I recently purchased Super Bomberman: Panic Bomber W for the Super Famicom. This appears to be a game that uses the SA-1 interface similarly to Super Mario RPG and some others. I can't seem to get it to work, so it appears to be incompatible with the Retro Duo at this point. Perhaps there are different versions of this cartridge, I don't know. I would be interested in hearing about other people's experiences with this game.

UPDATE: I had to send my Retro Duo back for a replacement due to a failing NES cartridge slot, but I pulled out my FC Dual for testing. Though not exactly the same as the Retro Duo, it is very similar. At first I thought this system would not work with any games that used SA-1 chips. It turns out that is slightly incorrect. If I insert a non SA-1 cartridge first, let it boot up, turn it off, and then quickly insert the copy of Super Mario RPG I have or a particular copy of Kirby Super Star, these games will work. But when I hit restart, or turn the console off and then on again, they will not work until I repeat the cartridge swap. This trick did not work with my copy of Kirby's Dream Land 3, Panic Bomber, or any of the other copies of Kirby Super Star I have for that matter. Oddly, the copy of Kirby Super Star I was able to get working using this method, I originally could not get working at all on the Retro Duo, while the several other copies I have (as listed in an earlier post), worked part of the time. Also of note, is that at least with Kirby's Super Star, (haven't tested Super Mario RPG yet), when the game finally works again, the memory is cleared, and there is no longer any save states :/

When my replacement Retro Duo arrives, I will check to make sure that these findings are consistent between the FC Dual and the Retro Duo.

UPDATE: I have received my replacement Retro Duo. I can confirm that the trick stated above as working for the FC Dual also works for the Retro Duo. In addition, I recently found that if you plug a game with an auxilary chip
in it (other than an SA-1 title), like Star Fox for example, and then turn on the FC Plus or Retro Duo, and then turn it off after waiting for the game to boot, and then inserting an SA-1 title, then the SA-1 game will boot 95% of the time (which is more often then it does with a non FX chip game for example). This trick seems to work for Kirby's Dream Land 3 and Super Mario RPG. For some reason it doesn't seem to work as often when used with Kirby Super Star, but it does work eventually. However, I noticed if you put in an FX game, and then swap it with Kirby's Dreamland 3, and then swap that game with Kirby's Super Star, this will get Super Star working almost all the time.

Even though Kirby's Dreamland 3 works most of the time, more often then not (I would say about 60% of the time if not more), I will experience sever slowdowns and audio glitches with the game when used with the Retro Duo. I have not been able to reproduce the slow down problem with the FC Dual, however there are still random audio issues (like random beeping). In terms of visuals, there is also a slight inconsistency between the clone systems listed above and real hardware. It seems these clone systems have trouble displaying some of the overlay sprites used for things such as precipitation effects. In other words I believe it has a problem reproducing the following:


Kirby's Dream Land 3 uses a mode of the SNES termed "pseudo high-resolution" (which allows for color blending between two adjacent pixels) to blend dithered sprites. -Wikipedia

To be more specific, the effects are shown, but they appear "dithered", without the blending effect present.

[Troglodyte]

I'd like to add a confirmed incompatible game to the list.
It seems that the PAL exclusive title The Lion King
for NES is incompatible. The title screen appears fine,
but after the start button is pressed and the game
starts, the video is unable to keep sync and the
graphics screw up as a result. :beaten:

[MarioMania]

I'd like to add a confirmed incompatible game to the list.
It seems that the PAL exclusive title The Lion King
for NES is incompatible. The title screen appears fine,
but after the start button is pressed and the game
starts, the video is unable to keep sync and the
graphics screw up as a result. :beaten:

That's how it is on the NES

[Troglodyte]

That's how it is on the NES

You mean the Top-Loader and / or an original NES with the lockout chip disabled? Because even if that is the case, I would still call it an incompatibility, it just doesn't seem to be one unique to the Retro Duo.

[MarioMania]

Running Lion King on a NTSC NES..it flips out when it's playing aat 60 herts

I have the Version 2 Retro Duo

I was playing Super Xevious & it crashed late in the first stage

[Ace]

Say, does anyone get some nasty video interference with the Super NES side of their RetroDuo? Basically, what I'm getting are 2 thick strips of static that scroll from the top of the screen down. I've been trying all sorts of different methods to get rid of that damn static: split the Super NES and NES video signals, re-route some Ground signals(supposedly, there's some kind of Ground loop in the system), even going as far as to change the Super NES Composite and S-Video amps to match the KA2198BD's datasheet. And I still have the static! Now, here comes the strange part: I changed the Super NES side's PAL/NTSC jumper into the PAL position(well, not quite; I just left the jumper pad with no voltage applied to it), and while I did manage to screw up the RetroDuo's RGB outputs from the TCT-976 chip(removed 3 resistors I wasn't supposed to), when I bring up the brightness on my TV, I don't see those static strips anymore. But as soon as I solder that jumper pad to Ground, the static comes back. This makes me wonder: was the system maybe designed to be a PAL-based NES/Super NES 2-in-1 clone?

Has anyone had these interference problems with their RetroDuo's Super NES side, and if so, have you figured out the definitive way to get rid of them while keeping the Super NES side running in NTSC?

EDIT: I've replaced the resistors I removed, and I can definitely confirm that when the RetroDuo's Super NES board is set to run in PAL, the static is gone. Solder the PAL/NTSC jumper to Ground, and the interference returns. What the hell?

By the way, this is my RetroDuo model(same paint job): http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/gamedepot/retro_duo_white_2.jpg

[Troglodyte]

Has anyone had these interference problems with their RetroDuo's Super NES side, and if so, have you figured out the definitive way to get rid of them while keeping the Super NES side running in NTSC?My second revision RetroDuo does not do what you described (I have the black and silver one). Although, my FC Dual and Super NicoFami (JPN version of FC Dual) do exactly as you describe on the SNES side. I haven't bothered to fix it since I only use the RetroDuo for NES / SNES and the Super NicoFami for Famicom so I don't wear out the NES cartridge connector on the RetroDuo. I have retired the FC Dual, but still hold onto it in case I need it for now. Perhaps you have the first revision of the RetroDuo? Also, this is my third one, the first one had audio static on the SNES side, and the second's NES cartridge connector wore out within a week or two. This one has been fine. Perhaps you have an early revision of the RetroDuo?

[Ace]

No, I can assure you this is a later RetroDuo. The earliest ones came in a box like this: http://www.itechnews.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/retro-duo-snes-nes-emulator.jpg

It even has a later motherboard revision that's missing a solder spot for a 7805 regulator.

But there is another thing that's incredibly bothersome about my RetroDuo's Super NES side, which is worse than the static: loss of color on the Super NES side's video output. It doesn't do it all the time, and when I leave the system off for a bit after the video goes Black & White, the color comes back. It's been doing that for a while, and I'm not sure why(does it in both Composite and S-Video).

Come to think of it, if you can, open your RetroDuo and take pictures of the motherboard so I can see if I spot any differences between my White/Blue RetroDuo and your Silver/Black RetroDuo.

[MarioMania]

Does the FC Twin Zapper work with the Retro Duo??

I have the Black & Red Retro Duo..Ver. 2 it's still had Audio Trouble on the NES side

[darth]

I have a few problems with my Retro Duo. The first and most important one is that when playing SNES games, there is a constant line of static/noise about 1.5 inches thick that's always scrolling down the screen. It does this on both AV and S-Video. If anyone knows how to fix that, please let me know!

And the other problems are just the classic NES colors and audio problems that a lot of people seem to have. I heard there's known fixes for those but I don't really wanna read through the entire thread right now so if someone knows a fix, please lt me know. It would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

[Ace]

I have not found a way to eliminate the static on the Super NES side aside from modifying the Super NES board to run in PAL. It's not the best fix because the system will have compatibility problems with NTSC games that have a PAL/NTSC check on them, and the games that work will work slower than they should and be letterboxed.

As for the NES sound fix, 2 parts are needed: a 0.1uF ceramic capacitor and a 2.2Kohm resistor. The capacitor has to be soldered between the solder point on the underside of the NES board with SOUND written above it, and the 2.2Kohm resistor has to be soldered between the bottom left and the top pin of transistor Q8(it's a black rectangle with 2 pins coming off the bottm and one pin coming off the top - it's a surface-mount transitor). It's the transistor with 1AM written on it right-side-up: http://www.gatchan.net/uploads/Consoles/RetroDuo/dos_carte_mere_1.jpg

By the way, what's your RetroDuo's paint job and in what box did it come in(there are 2 different boxes the RetroDuo comes in, one of which is discontinued)?

[darth]

White/Blue, this is the one it came in. I assumed it was the latest version as it said v2.0 on it.

http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/gamedepot/retro_duo_white_2.jpg

[Ace]

That's identical to mine(it's the newest model). I think those have some kind of design flaw on the Super NES board causing some kind of interference in the Super NES side's video output. Do any owners of Black/Red, Silver/Black and Red/Gold models experience the same kind of staticky interference on their RetroDuo's Super NES side?

[Troglodyte]

Do any owners of Black/Red, Silver/Black and Red/Gold models experience the same kind of staticky interference on their RetroDuo's Super NES side?Like I wrote in an earlier post; I own the Silver/Black model, and I don't seem to have this problem.
Perhaps, it is very faint, and I am just not seeing it.
However, I did experience this problem with my
FC Dual and my Super NicoFami.

The NES Audio problem, on the other hand, seems to be a universal issue among NOACs.
I haven't bothered to attempt the described fix however. If it helps, I can try and take
pictures of the motherboard tomorrow.

[Ace]

If you have a Super GameBoy, pay close attention to the screen while running that. The static is IMPOSSIBLE to miss when using the Super GameBoy on the RetroDuo.

[darth]

The video problems are what bothers me the most. The SNES "static line" is kind of transparent but still quite noticable. It's the reason I don't use my RetroDuo. And the NES washed out colors are also kind of annoying but not so bad. The sound issues are hit or miss depending on the game. I don't even have a soldering iron to do the fix yet though. Another thing I just noticed that isn't really a problem, but just kind of strange is that if I unplug the right audio from the tv (the red one), the sound still comes out of both speakers. I then put the white one into the red input and it still plays out of both speakers with just the white audio cable, why?

[Ace]

I just discovered something about the RetroDuo. While rearranging all of my game consoles yesterday, I happened to move the switchbox in which I had the RetroDuo plugged into, as well as the RetroDuo itself. Before, the switchbox was next to a heater, my RF connections and my Atari 5200 4-Port RF box, and the strips of static were clearly visible on bright colors, espeically white and gray. Now, I moved the switchbox away from all that, and the static is gone. Keep in mind that my RetroDuo was already modified with a new Composite and S-Video amp for the Super NES side using 470uF capacitors soldered in series with a 75ohm resistor from the KA2198BD encoder to the Composite and S-Video jacks.

After finding this out, I'm under the impression that the RetroDuo is HIGHLY succeptible to interference from other electrical devices.

Now, as for the NES washed out colors, I sort of took care of that by cutting the part of the ribbon cable that carries the NOAC signals(audio, video, controller signals, etc) that has the NOAC's Composite video and put 2 75ohm resistors in series from there to the Composite jack. It saturates the video a bit more, but anything yellow or orange comes out INCREDIBLY dull, almost with a gray tint. Is there a better way to saturate a video signal?

I will take a picture of my RetroDuo's internals soon for those who are thinking of performing the video fixes and the NES audio fix.

[darth]

That's pretty weird, just shows how little effort they put into making these things. I'm fed up with mine. I'm just gonna put it back in the box and hope to trade/sell it. Might as well just buy a real top loading NES and mini SNES.

[Troglodyte]

I happened to move the switch box in which I had the Retro Duo plugged into, as well as the Retro Duo itself. Before, the switch box was next to a heater, my RF connections and my Atari 5200 4-Port RF box, and the strips of static were clearly visible on bright colors, especially white and gray. Now, I moved the switch box away from all that, and the static is gone.
After finding this out, I'm under the impression that the Retro Duo is HIGHLY susceptible to interference from other electrical devices.I wouldn't be so quick to judge the Retro Duo; based on the fact that you had a heater plugged into the same power strip / surge protector / outlet, or generally just within close physical proximity to the Retro Duo. Having sensitive electronics, like computers, TVs, Radios and not to mention game consoles, near Heaters, is never a good idea. They draw too much power, and often can cause large levels of interference.
I am not calling you out on this, or even trying to put you down, but they even teach this fact in the most basic level of electrical and
computer classes.



Might as well just buy a real top loading NES and mini SNES.I wouldn't recommend either of these models. I have owned both the top loading NES and the Mini SNES. The NES top loader only has RF, and the mini SNES; only AV via standard RCA. The top loader also suffers from scan lines that are still visible when the AV mod is implemented (I confirmed this myself when I did the mod before selling mine). The original NES and SNES (which features S-Video, and can be modded to output RGB), are much better products. However, I personally like my Retro Duo better than these two original consoles. While I can't recommend it over the originals in all cases / for everyone, it is a very good product. I have had no scan line problems, but I will verify that by putting in my Super Game Boy, soon enough; to see if the lines are their and just faint.

Anyway, I do feel that the Retro Duo isa much better product than both the top loading NES, and the mini SNES. The products are much too expensive and very over hyped; especially do to the loss in video quality among both of them. I have had no apparent problems with the video quality / interference with my Retro Duo, so I can't really comment on these issues.

[darth]

The NES top loader only has RF, and the mini SNES; only AV via standard RCA. The top loader also suffers from scan lines that are still visible when the AV mod is implemented (I confirmed this myself when I did the mod before selling mine).

Well, it is POSSIBLE to mod the top loader and remove those scan lines (They are caused by poor shielding). and as for the mini SNES, having only AV is just perfect, as RF is obsolete now. Anyway, I have two original model SNES systems that work perfectly, so I won't be getting a mini SNES any time soon (plus my brother has one). And the only way I'm getting a top loading NES is if it has AV and no scan lines. I'll have to confirm that before I make any purchase.

[Troglodyte]

as for the mini SNES, having only AV is just perfect, as RF is obsolete nowWhile I agree that RF has been obsoleet for a long time; S-Video is an improvement over standard AV (composite).
Composite suffers from visual problems / limitations, such as dot crawl.


The scan lines (on the Top loading NES) are caused by poor shieldingThat's been proven not to be the case. I'd link to the documentation on this if I still knew where it was. The problem is believed to actually be caused by crosstalk between the internal circuits of the motherboard. So if you mean shielding in that respect, then you are correct. If you mean shielding in respect to outside interference, then no, this is not the cause, and any amount of shielding surrounding the inside of the console will not alleviate this issue.

With all of that said, if you know of a mod that has been proven to rid the top loading NES' infamous scan line problem; then I'd love to hear about it. However, right now, I have my doubts. Even if I don't have any intention of buying another one. I'd still like to keep informed.

Also, in addition to the Retro Duo, I own an AV Famicom. This console is basically the Japanese Famicom version of the top loading NES. However, unlike it's American counterpart; it features AV out, and does not suffer from any interference or scan line issues, not to mention audio problems. Although, I can not recommend long term use of this console with NES games; since using a Famicom to NES adapter (although I have one) over an extended period of time; can put unneeded amount of stress on both the NES games, as well as the console itself.


And the only way I'm getting a top loading NES is if it has AV and no scan lines. I'll have to confirm that before I make any purchase.While the scan line problem has been severely improved with a newly discovered mod this time around, despite what may eBay modders might tell you; the scan lines are not entirely removed; they are still there, yet fainter. Also, I believe the picture is more saturated / brighter / darker / somewhat muddy or more sharp than the original. The mode uses a capacitor of a certain value to try and compensate for these issues, but it isn't perfect. Depending on the value of the capacitor(s) used in this mod; the quality of the picture will vary; but not the degree of visible scan lines. To my knowledge, no one has been able to find a 100% fix for the scan line problem. The old mod looked almost unbearable in a lot of games. I personally performed this one myself several years ago. The new mod is much better; but the scan lines have been proven to still be there; however faint they may appear.

[darth]

While I agree that RF has been obsoleet for a long time; S-Video is an improvement over standard AV (composite).
Composite suffers from visual problems / limitations, such as dot crawl

There are S-Video cables for the SNES. They can also be used on the N64 and GameCube.

Anyway, perhaps I should just buy a new 72-pin connector for my original NES and just use that for now. I just really want an easy-to-use, works first try, great quality NES system.

[Troglodyte]

There are S-Video cables for the SNES. They can also be used on the N64 and GameCube.I'm aware of that. I assumed you were saying that only AV was perfect for the SNES mini. The SNES mini does not support S-Video.
Only the original SNES model(s) do. that is what I was referring to, in response to what you stated here:


as for the mini SNES, having only AV is just perfect, as RF is obsolete now I assume, that we either miss understood each other, either that, or you didn't
understand that I was stating that just the SNES mini does not support S-Video.

[darth]

Oh okay, so you're saying that if I did get that cable and used it on a SNES mini, it just wouldn't output anything through S-Video?

[Ace]

You need to modify the Super NES Mini to get it to output S-Video, but honestly, it's not really worth it. I modified my Super NES Mini with S-Video, but the only difference between the Super NES Mini's Composite and S-Video is that the video has slightly less smearing. The difference is negligible.

As for the Top-Loader NES having bad video output, that's actually caused by the way Nintendo made the video circuit. It's too close to certain traces on the motherboard which are address lines, data lines and such. While I haven't done a full-blown Composite video mod on my Top-Loader NES(nor do I intend to do so unless the RF modulator fails), changing the way a few parts are hooked up on the video circuit and changing/adding a few parts reduced the intensity of the line noise and brightened the video, although I think what my Top-Loader NES really needs is a brand new video circuit based off the old circuit Nintendo used, but placed somewhere where it can't get too much interference.

And by the way, Darth, don't bother to buy a new 72-pin connector for your Front-Loader NES. Just tighten the existing cartridge slot and clean the crap out of it. Works wonders. Also make sure to disable the lockout chip.

[ZombieRyushu]

I honestly can't deal with anything OTHER than that control scheme. The way I look at it, the four buttons correspond with a human figure. At the bottom is jump, because you're using your feet. Y is shoot, because that's the character's right hand. A is usually an action button, since that's your free hand. X is usually a menu or something, since that's where the head is. If anything, it's modern games that screw it up. Why anyone would map jump to the top button is beyond me.

I hate the Y and B Control scheme because I grew up playing on an NES Max on my NES

But, if you were playing a NES game correctly. Yes, B and A on the Super NES Controller should corresond to B and A on the NES Controller.

[ZombieRyushu]

Is there a way to get a better NES S-Video output from the Retro Duo? Without the artifacting?

[Troglodyte]

As for the Top-Loader NES having bad video output, that's actually caused by the way Nintendo made the video circuit.
It's too close to certain traces on the motherboard which are address lines, data lines and suchYes, that is basically what I meant when I said crosstalk.
You may have provided a clearer explanation though.

Anyway, I finally re-found the two sites that explain the scan line problem with the NES2 top loader much more in depth. Like I said, there is some debate about whether or not the new composite mod completely removes the scan lines; matching the level of composite video quality to that of the original toaster style NES or not. Also, some say that even the AV Famicom has very faint scan lines that are only visible in certain rare instances. Without a newly modded NES2 top loader in front of me to compare to the composite video output of both the original model NES and the AV Famicom; I can't say for certain. Either way, the NES2 top loader's RF and composite video output (with the original mod) was, at best, barely tolerable.

Anyway, here are the two sites that I was referring to earlier. They feature the most accurate and useful
information I could find concerning this often talked about, misunderstood, and sometimes confusing topic:
NES 2 A/V Mod (http://wiki.modretro.com/index.php?title=NES_Mods#NES_2_A.2FV_Mod)
top loader - getting rid of bad video, lets figure this out!

(http://nesdev.parodius.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=601)
Is there a way to get a better NES S-Video output from the Retro Duo? Without the artifacting?No... first of all, no NOAC (or standard consumer level NES console for that matter), can output RGB, or even S-Video, as the PPU was designed specifically to output composite; straight from the source. I'm not sure why this was the case, as even a lot of older consoles where designed to convert an RGB signal to composite (well RF, in most cases). The famed Famicom Titler can; but that is another story.

The original NES and top loader can be modded with a PC10 PPU, to get RGB, and then another compatible NTSC / S-Video encoder can be run in parallel to convert the RGB signal to one of those; but there appears to be no such mod with a NOAC; since they are typically housed in fully self contained "glob-tops." Why they haven't figured out how to "reverse engineer" the PC10 PPU is beyond me. Although, they probably just don't want to spend the time and money, as most of the time, it's not simple to reverse engineer ICs.

As for the Retro Duo, and other clone consoles that appear to feature NES & S-Video outputs; the S-Video on the NES side is not native.
In reality, it is converted to S-Video from composite; which will always amount to some level of video degradation.

Hope that makes since.

[Ace]

Just discovered something else about the RetroDuo's video interference: if, like me, you've got your game consoles hooked up via switchboxes into your TV, be careful what switchbox you plug the RetroDuo into. I had it plugged into a Philips switchbox before plugging it into a Pelican switchbox. With the Philips switchbox, the interference was clearly visible on anything gray and white, but on the Pelican switchbox, the interference is practically invisible(but keep in mind that my RetroDuo is modified). So it would seem like some switchbox brands induce extra interference on the RetroDuo's already dirty video output.

[Arkhan]

pardon me for not reading all 11 pages.

How "off" is the audio compared to a real NES? :)

[MarioMania]

Can anyone answer me

Alot of seller on ebay selling the FC Twin Gun(Yellow Zapper)

All say it doen't work with the Retro Duo, Does it work??

[Ace]

pardon me for not reading all 11 pages.

How "off" is the audio compared to a real NES? :)

It's not that far off in reality, but when you take into consideration that there are 2 parts RetroBit omitted from the NES sound circuit, the sound strains like hell, making it sound more off than it really is.

I made 2 videos so far comparing my NES games between a RetroDuo and a Front-Loader NES. Have a look and see for yourself the differences:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whZ3Id9k0OE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvcx6-2LEgI

[Arkhan]

K im convinced, that blows.

My FC-Twin isn't that bad though. I just checked.

its still crap compared to an original. so i guess its about what i would expect from knock offs. :)....but man, that retro duo sure aint worth the pricetag. My fc-twins were like 20$



how bad is it with Chrono triggers tunes? or Secret of Mana

[Ace]

I don't have either games, so I can't tell. Plus, aren't those Super NES games? Super NES games sound perfectly fine on the RetroDuo, however, it seems like all White/Blue RetroDuos have a problem with static bands that roll down the screen. It's incredibly annoying, and it can be worsened by switchboxes and other electrical devices within close proximity to the RetroDuo and its hookups.

The thing is, you CAN improve the sound on the RetroDuo. RetroBit omitted a 2.2Kohm resistor and 0.1uF capacitor on the sound circuit, resulting in audio interference(those diagonal lines as seen in The Hunt for Red October on RetroDuo vs. Original Hardware Part 2, waves in sync with all sounds output from the NOAC). The FC Twin actually had perfect sound before, but a recent revision to the FC Twin causes some slight distortion in the sound output(probably a missing resistor). My FC Twin has perfectly clean NOAC sound(but I managed to screw up the sound circuit, and I can't fix it no matter what I do), and this is the first revision of the FC Twin to have Yobo branding(the older ones without Yobo branding are crap). The ones with slightly distorted NOAC sound are newer(kind of ironic that the newer hardware is worse).

Would you be able to take pictures of your FC Twin's internals? I'd like to compare them to my FC Twin to see what part in the sound circuit is missing to cause the distortion.

[Arkhan]

Would you be able to take pictures of your FC Twin's internals? I'd like to compare them to my FC Twin to see what part in the sound circuit is missing to cause the distortion.

Yeah. I could do that I suppose. Give me a day or so. Half swamped with schoolwork since classes just resumed.

i notice my Chrono Trigger has an audible skip/pop occasionally during songs. Especially when its really long drawn out pads.

I wonder if it's a consistent problem with them, or just a case of "duhrrr, its a knock off."

[Arkhan]

Opened the beast up, and was like "man. these chips have gunk on the tops, and random white smears"

anyway, I took some pictures. Pardon 1) The lack of photography skills and 2) The amount of them.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/Android77/IMG_1195.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/Android77/IMG_1196.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/Android77/IMG_1196.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/Android77/IMG_1194.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/Android77/IMG_1198.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/Android77/IMG_1199.jpg

[MarioMania]

You know someone make a Retro Duo/FC Twin NES Controllers for NES games

What is the Button sheme for the SNES Retro Duo Pad?? Is it like the SNES Pad ??

[Arkhan]

yes its an SNES pad.

same connector and all.

I just use real SNES pads on it instead of the bullshitty pack-in ones that dont even work.

[Ace]

Arkhan, you have a newer FC Twin than mine. My FC Twin has a solder spot right at the bottom corner of the Super NES board next to controller port 2 where a Super NES lockout chip can be soldered onto the system(that solder spot is also on the oldest FC Twins that have no Yobo branding). It seems as if the Super NES audio amplifier was moved to that location, by the looks of it, and the NES board appears to have less resistors as a result. If possible, remove the boards from the casing and take a picture of the underside of every board(especially the power/AV board), as well as, if possible, everything under the heatsink on the power/AV board.

[MarioMania]

yes its an SNES pad.

same connector and all.

I just use real SNES pads on it instead of the bullshitty pack-in ones that dont even work.

I mean modding a NES Pad to work on a Retro Duo/FC Twin

I know some SNES games will work with the NES pad..

[Bub_and_Bob]

For those who have gotten the PowerPak to work, what brand(s) of CF cards are you using?

I have a silver and black RD and a top-loading NES. The CF card appears to be a generic one (SimpleTech). The PowerPak works great in the top loader, but every time I try it in the RD, I get 'card reading error'.

Given that the RD works and that others seem to have gotten the PP to work on it, I'm guessing my issue is the type of CF. Would just like to find out what works for others rather than buying umpteen ones off of eBay and hoping to get lucky.

Thanks!

[Bub_and_Bob]

To add to the compatability list. All without notes worked perfectly.

Tengen Games
- Gauntlet
- Klax
- RBI Baseball
- Rolling Thunder (same issues as everyone else)

NoA Games
- Baseball Stars
- Baseball Stars 2
- Bionic Commando
- Bubble Bobble
- Bubble Bobble 2
- Castevania 3 (major sound issues)
- Caveman Games
- Clash at Demonhead
- Deadly Towers
- Defender
- Donkey Kong Classics
- Dr. Mario
- Dragon Spirit
- Elevator Action
- Final Fantasy
- Galaga
- Gauntlet 2
- Ghosts & Goblins
- Ice Hockey
- Kid Icarius
- Kid Niki
- King's Knight
- Kirby's Adventure
- Kung Fu
- Little League World Series
- Metal Gear
- Metroid
- Off Road
- Power Blade
- Pro Wrestling
- Punchout
- Rampart
- RC Pro Am
- Roadblasters
- Rygar
- Stinger
- Strider (does not work)
- Super Mario Bros 2 (did not work)
- Super Mario Bros 3 (sound issues)
- Super Techmo Bowl
- Tetris
- The Goonies
- TMNT Manhattan Project
- TMNT Tournament Fighters
- Vice Project
- Xexyl
- Yoshi's Cookie
- Zelda (sound seems off at times)
- Zen

I also have 7 Famicom games that I will test once I can get the converter to fit. Right now, it seems like the pins are off and I don't want to force it in. It works perfectly in the top loader and is one of the 1/2 height converters.

[Ace]

- Super Mario Bros 2 (did not work)

That's odd. It works perfectly fine on my RetroDuo(white/blue model) and every other Famiclone I own(GN Twin, FC Twin, Retro Entertainment System).

[MarioMania]

what was the name of the 3 in 1 system Gen/SNES/NES

[Troglodyte]

what was the name of the 3 in 1 system Gen/SNES/NES

The FC3 Plus (from Yobo).