The TRUE Xbox 360 Failure rates

[GrandAmChandler]

What did that company say 16% or something? Cheapassgamer did a poll of 3500+ people, the results are ridiculous compared to the numbers that that warranty company and Microsoft posted. Check it out, I "Dugg" it for easy viewing:

http://digg.com/xbox/The_TRUE_Xbox_360_Failure_Rates

-GAC-

[heybtbm]

People who have had the RRoD are more likely to participate in a poll asking about the RRoD. People who haven't had the RRoD are not going to respond in equal proportions.

I still say the likelihood of RRoD is 100% if you play your 360 for long periods of time so it is regularly exposed to high temperatures.

[Slate]

I still say the likelihood of RRoD is 100% if you play your 360 for long periods of time so it is regularly exposed to high temperatures.

This poll could have been towards all 360 hardware problems. I have two 360s and never had the RRoD. The biggest problem I ever had was the DVD drive not opening on my pro console.

Oh, and the pro console got tons of use until I got an elite. I even left it (The pro) on for two days straight.. Twice.

[otoko]

I'm pretty sure those consoles are after they "fixed the problem".

According to my friend Nick who regularly mods and fixes a random assortment of Consoles and computers, he finds that most 360 consoles when produced Microsoft soldered the entire board using the same temperature. Well, this of course did not hold near the parts, *cough*possessor*cough* excuse me, that get hottest. Thus, during use msot of them became unsoldered.

Of course that's not all of them.. Just the ones that can be fixed with the towel trick. That in turns melts all the inside hardware if you do it enough.

Edit: I do not own a 360.

[heybtbm]

Oh, and the pro console got tons of use until I got an elite. I even left it (The pro) on for two days straight.. Twice.

I see what you're saying, but leaving the 360 on for two days doesn't compare to the amount of heat generated by playing a game for 1-2 hours. I'm talking about actual "play time" not idle time.

[miaandjohnrule]

That statistic isn't even close to being accurate. You would need a poll of all 360 users to get an accurate percentage. People on CAG are more rabid and also folks who have had faulty 360s probably have more incentive to be vocal.

[otoko]

That statistic isn't even close to being accurate. You would need a poll of all 360 users to get an accurate percentage. People on CAG are more rabid and also folks who have had faulty 360s probably have more incentive to be vocal.


We realize. Also that's impossible. You may send a survey everyone who has a 360 but you'll only get a percentage back. Even then you can still hold this argument of "faulty people shit and bubbles wahh blah blah" argument anyway.

[Logicdustbin]

I still say the likelihood of RRoD is 100% if you play your 360 for long periods of time so it is regularly exposed to high temperatures.


I bought mine a couple months after launch, and have never had an issue.

in fact, when PSU came out, I had a wee bit of an addiction - that and for people who played PSU, there was no lobby jumping when the game came out; so I had one week where the system was not turned off at all, with a lot of heavy playing.


meh, I'm still waiting for mine to die though, it will give me an excuse to buy the sexy black elite :D

[ProgrammingAce]

Those numbers aren't even reasonably accurate.

There are over 10,000,000 xbox 360's sold, 3,000 users isn't going to provide an accurate sample.

[jcalder8]

I go to CAG regularly and I never saw the link or I would have voted that mine has never had a problem.

It's interesting to see but of little importance.

[skaar]

I've got a pre-launch 360 that I've left on for days (and even weeks) at a time - I'd pause the game and turn off the TV, go to work, come back - still going fine.

That being said, I've locked up twice playing Bully recently ;)

I remember when the 360s were coming out people were freaking about power supplies and heat and people were giving the consoles LOTS of breathing room - but people seem to be back to cramming it into their entertainment centers and having bricks sitting on top of piles of wires behind the TV these days when I see other peoples'.... it's a PC, people. Let it breathe.

[kaedesdisciple]

For what it's worth, mine took a little over a year to "die" (it just got the color tint -> no video problem). I had it sitting in the open, nothing blocked any of the vents, out of direct sunlight. I never played it for more than a few (2-3 max) hours at a time, a few times a week.

Hopefully that BB replacement warranty I have comes through here, else I'm gonna be quite upset.

[thedeityofhardcore]

I'm in the faulty Everything club.

I'm on my 2nd 360 now
Faulty Rock Band Guitar Club

I'm starting to have video issues with my 2nd 360 dunno if it's the Cable TV or the 360 (seemed to be a loose connection but still I've also had AV problems lately anyway)

so yeah.

my first 360 was made in August of 2006 my 2nd was made August of 2007 (no HDMI out though wah wah)

of my online friends all of them are on their 3rd 360. Of my real life friends none of them have had any problems with their 360 and one of them has a launch unit.

[Damaramu]

... it's a PC, people. Let it breathe.

Yup. I've got mine in open space, horizontal, and elevated. My machine is a Pro, which I purchased in October of '07.

I play it maybe 2 or 3 times a week...for maybe an hour or two at a time. It never feels hot. Of course, I keep the room fairly dark, the ceiling fan is always on, and it sits directly across the room from an A/C vent. And I always keep the place at @ 70 degrees.

:rocker:

[theoakwoody]

The only way to really get close is to somehow convince UPS to show, on average, how many xboxs they ship back to Microsoft every week. When my buddy took his elite the guy at his UPS said he sends 7 to 8 a week. That's one store, how many UPS stores are their nationwide?

[otoko]

The only way to really get close is to somehow convince UPS to show, on average, how many xboxs they ship back to Microsoft every week. When my buddy took his elite the guy at his UPS said he sends 7 to 8 a week. That's one store, how many UPS stores are their nationwide?

I dunno about you guys but that's a good idea to me.

But we'd need a actual number. That would probably not be possible to get from them. After all I'm sure they don't keep track on what they ship at all.

[Skelix]

The only way to really get close is to somehow convince UPS to show, on average, how many xboxs they ship back to Microsoft every week. When my buddy took his elite the guy at his UPS said he sends 7 to 8 a week. That's one store, how many UPS stores are their nationwide?


Interesting you say that one of the coffins I mailed back, I dropped it off at Staples, the lady knew what it was by the box size and chuckled saying she's been getting a lot of these lately. That was just after M$ increased the RROD warranty to 3 yrs.

That 360 was dead RROD refurbished one that was about a week over its 90 day warranty.

I had a launch that I sent back 2-3 weeks later due to freezing all the time (no RROD) then got a refurbished that RROD under 90 days, sent back got another one RROD broke out of warranty paid $100-140ish, eventually was reimbursed. Then the other RROD was the outside warranty.

Refused to send back for $140 to get another broke one, bought a new one with Best Buy 2 yr, dvd drive broke changed it and paid more for Elite. Since then the broken one warranty extended and they sent me a new one.

Elite I've had no problems with, sold the other new one for $100. Got a couple of we're sorry letters from M$ and once I got a free I think it was a 2 month xbox live card.

edit: First time it broke they had me ship it DHL

[MachineGex]

I would like to know how much use the 360's got, so we could see if the 360's that have not failed are owned by gamers who dont play as much as people who got the RRoD. I am betting people who got the RR are heavy gamers and people who havent gotten the RRoD yet are casual gamers.

I think that number is a fair representation of "hardcore" gamers. Meaning, people who play a lot of games. People who don't play as much, don't go to gaming websites, so they arent going to vote. The "real" number may be lower, but if you play a lot, I bet those numbers are close. I have not played my 360 as much as most, and I am betting that is why I haven't had a problem. Chances are, if I played it as much as most, I would have a 50-50 chance of RRoD.

[gepeto]

Those numbers aren't even reasonably accurate.

There are over 10,000,000 xbox 360's sold, 3,000 users isn't going to provide an accurate sample.


Why is percentages used in the neisen rating? I am on my 3rd. The funny thing was this recent one seems new manufactured on 2/13/08 but no hdmi go figure.

[DJ Daishi]

....still waiting for mine to be returned to me from repairs...this is my second RROD.

[TNTPLUST]

I'm just curious is there a way to set up a poll here? How many Digitalpress members have had to return the unit? I have had mine for a little over a year and have had no problems. Mine isn't on for long periods usually. Well...unless I'm playing Mass Effect and then I might log 4-6 hours straight.

[Ed Oscuro]

My brother's hasn't died yet...but he only has used it a total of a month or so

Also, for Microsoft to admit 16% is staggering. That's one out of every consoles failing, people. :(

p.s. my NES don't work so hot no mo', but that's mainly the previous owner's fault. The console I think will never die on me is the N64 - that and my family's original Win95 machine.

[jonjandran]

Still have both of my launch day 360's running perfectly.

They get several 4-6 hour sessions per week from th kids and friends.

[Press_Start]

A future episode of the AVGN:

XBOX 360: The Red Ring of Micro:bad-words:

[Slate]

I see what you're saying, but leaving the 360 on for two days doesn't compare to the amount of heat generated by playing a game for 1-2 hours. I'm talking about actual "play time" not idle time.

It was running dead rising in both of those 2 day sessions. Yes, Its true!


I would like to know how much use the 360's got, so we could see if the 360's that have not failed are owned by gamers who dont play as much as people who got the RRoD. I am betting people who got the RR are heavy gamers and people who havent gotten the RRoD yet are casual gamers.

I've never had the RRoD problem and I have two 360s. The pro got tons of use up until I got my elite which is on anywhere from 4 to 9 hours every day.

When I used my pro It was horizontal and got proper ventilation. My elite is the same way, Horizontal and lots of ventilation.

[retroman]

i believe it...My 360 took a shit on me 3 weeks ago, and i am still waiting for it to come back from Mr.Gates.

[NinjaJoey23]

My 360 died a little over a week ago. It was an elite I bought in April of last year. I always stored it horizontally, in an elevated and open space. I didn't even use it all that much for gaming. I used it much more often for media streaming from my PC, though I'm not sure if this generates less, as much, or more heat than gaming.

Everyone that I know with a 360 has had it die. That's just shameful.

[lendelin]

Those numbers aren't even reasonably accurate.

There are over 10,000,000 xbox 360's sold, 3,000 users isn't going to provide an accurate sample.

Oh yeah, 3000 respondents would be more than enough to provide an accurate sample, even 1500 would be enough with an error margin of +-3%. The key is that the respondents have to be be randomly chosen, (which isn't the case for this poll) then you could generalize from a 3000 sample to 300,000,000 of Xbox owners.

Very often people think that the more respondents you have, the more reliable is the poll in terms of generalizability. This is only true for up to 1000 respondents; for more respondents the law of diminishing returns strikes brutally.

Error margins are hardly reduced from 3000 respondents upwards. That's why you find hardly polls with more than 3000, most settle with 1500 respondents. The error margin from a sample of 3000 to 10,000 decreases only by 1%, after that it gets even worse. A sample of 10,000 and a sample of 100,000 have statistically speaking marginally reduced error margins, the reduction is insignificant.

The key are randomly chosen respondents which reduces sample bias dramatically, not the number of participants.

For this poll that means: if it had 3000, or ten thousand, or 100,000 respondents doesn't really matter. Even with 100,000 respondents the sample biases would be still there.

A sample of 1000 randomly chosen participants would be way more reliable than a sample of one million participants for this specific poll.

[lendelin]

I'm just curious is there a way to set up a poll here? How many Digitalpress members have had to return the unit?

I've done similar polls at this site back in 2003 when there was all this insecurity and big discussions about disc reading errors an other hardware problems with the PS2.

Here is the link:
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18926 (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18926)

if you set a poll up please do it across systems, that means another poll for the PS3 and the Wii with the exact same questions. Every Internet poll suffers from sample bias (lots of different aspects). If you do them across systems you can't still generalize the poll to all US 360 owners, however, you get clearly a trend compared to the other systems because the same bias applies roughly to the other systems as well.

[lendelin]

People who have had the RRoD are more likely to participate in a poll asking about the RRoD. People who haven't had the RRoD are not going to respond in equal proportions.

That's exactly right, and there are many more biases of Internet polls which aren't just generalizable. The limitations are 'somehow' addressed by Cheapassgamer.

The poll would have been much more meaningful if they had made the same poll for the Wii and the PS3; that would give you a clear trend across systems and would in all likelihood show how bad the design problems of the 360 are compared to the other systems.

A comparison across systems wouldn't have eliminated the inherent biases of the sample, but it would have shown a clear cut trend because the same biases apply roughly to all systems.

Additionally, an estimation how "realistic" the total numbers are could have been made assuming that an alleged reliable system like the PS3 has a failure rate of 2% to 5%. If the failure rate of the PS3 in the poll would have been let's say 15%, we could have made a more educated guess about the total number of failure rates for the 360.

But these reports are alarming. Together with other data and reports from users the design flaws of the 360 are just terrible. Joe Santulli said that he expects the older systems to fail even by 90% based on his experience. Let's hope that isn't the case.

I assumed that the failure rate is around 40%. This poll together with other data indicates an even worse failure rate. I think if we go up the ladder from 40% onwards it doesn't really matter anymore.

The 360 was sold in the first year and a half with a terrible design flaw. There wasn't a system which had such terrible failure rates (since the mid 80s, that is).

MS did a lot of stuff right for the launch: it was well prepared, development kits were give early to developers, the list of launch titles had quality and was varied. But to get out such an unreliable system despite some warning signs in test runs is just unacceptable. Games don't matter to me if I the system to play them with breaks down, and if I spend $400 for the thing I expect not a failure rate of around 50%.

It is strange -- the 360 does so well with its good games despite the hardware horror reports which came in a couple of months after it launched. The PS3 suffered from sales numbers because of a lack of games despite its fantastic hardware design and reliability. It seems it is all in the good games and the price.

My 360 is now 22 months old -- that means I bought it in May 2006, I don't know when it was manufactured. So far no problems whatsoever. (knock on plastic) But if my system breaks down MS will not see a penny from me for the 360 for a very long time.

[HYB]

As I said in the other RROD thread, I have a launch unit, running as perfect and smooth as ever. I play heavily, anywhere from 1 to 18 hours a day. My friend also has a launch unit, he doesn't play as much but no problems there. Boyfriend has one, not a launch unit but one of the earlier versions, no problems there either. Me and my friend store the console horizontally, I have my Wii on top of it. Boyfriend has his vertically. In fact, I've never heard or anyone who had a RROD here in Finland. I bet there are people who have had it though.

The failure rate is alarmingly high though and I just hope that my 360 doesn't die on me. I could never afford another one.

[JerseyDevil65]

I would never believe a poll like this because:

1. People who had failures are more likely to respond.

2. Some people just hate Microsoft and never miss an oppotunity to bash them whether they own a 360 or not.

[jupitersj]

I take care of my electronics (building and repairing pc's is a hobby of mine).

I own more than 25 physical consoles and have had the most problems ever with my 360.

I adopted at launch which I usually never do(except for the dreamcast). My launch console died within the first 3 days of owning it. Since then I have had to send it in 5 times; each time receiving a different refurb. It sits in an open space clutter free. The power supply even has its own teir. While I'm quite sure there are Xbox 360's that died due to negligence it is negligent in itself to claim that is the only reason because your console(s) ever had a problem. The 360 itself is a design flaw of speed and greed.

I do not even use my 360 all that much... I'm around 4 to 5k gamerpoints even. All I know is I will not be an early adopter of the next system Microsoft creates.

http://www.8bitjoystick.com/archives/jake_inside_source_reveal_the_truth_about_xbox_360 _red_ring_of_death_failures.php

p.s. Although a member of CAG I did not take place in the poll.

[Kevin H]

Just had to send mine back on monday, the guy at the ups store in savannah knew exactly what was in the box and said they see at least 1 or 2 a day.

[zemmix]

As I said in the other RROD thread, I have a launch unit, running as perfect and smooth as ever. I play heavily, anywhere from 1 to 18 hours a day. My friend also has a launch unit, he doesn't play as much but no problems there. Boyfriend has one, not a launch unit but one of the earlier versions, no problems there either. Me and my friend store the console horizontally, I have my Wii on top of it. Boyfriend has his vertically. In fact, I've never heard or anyone who had a RROD here in Finland. I bet there are people who have had it though.

The failure rate is alarmingly high though and I just hope that my 360 doesn't die on me. I could never afford another one.

Just curious but whats the hottest it ever gets there in Finland? How long does the heat last?

Here in socal, the three people I know with 360's have all had to send them back, twice even for one.

[HYB]

Just curious but whats the hottest it ever gets there in Finland? How long does the heat last?

Here in socal, the three people I know with 360's have all had to send them back, twice even for one.

In the summer it's usually 30c (86f), indoors about 35c (95f). Finland is pretty hot in the summer, despite in the winter being -30c (22f). It has been getting warmer, and I have no ceiling fan.

The heat lasts for 3-4 months, usually May-August but may be around 20c (68f) in May/August. I'm in the northern part of Finland too, so it's surprising that we get about the same degrees that they have in Helsinki, which is a very hot city.

[Alucard79]

I guess I have been fortunate. I am still on my first 360. It was bought in late December 06, and gets an average of 8 hours a day playtime on the weekdays and at least 12 or more on the weekends. When/if it finally dies, it dies a hero...

[thedeityofhardcore]

I would never believe a poll like this because:

1. People who had failures are more likely to respond.

2. Some people just hate Microsoft and never miss an oppotunity to bash them whether they own a 360 or not.

I've been saying this since the 360 problems started popping up. But I know 360s die because I've had one die on me.

it's the PS2 all over again.

[fishsandwich]

I guess I have been fortunate. I am still on my first 360. It was bought in late December 06, and gets an average of 8 hours a day playtime on the weekdays and at least 12 or more on the weekends. When/if it finally dies, it dies a hero...

Awesome. I wish I was you.

[consolecrusader]

I kinda do this face every time I turn on my XBOX360 Elite:

http://www.erichufschmid.net/TFC/img/FrightenedSheeple.JPG

I was one of those who voted on that CAG poll being I trade there a boat load. And I was not surprised at the results. I mean heck did you even see the owner of CAG got the RROD? Jeez

[The Shawn]

Well I Owned a 360, it started making funny noises back in August and had like zero play time on it, so I un-hooked it and took it down to the pawn shop while I could still get some cash out of it. This was before the new 360's came out mind you. I just couldn't afford to eat a $400 hot-plate if it died...

Especially since every person I know that owns one has allready had to send theirs back multiple times. I'll just wait until they work everything out with it before I buy another one.

[thedeityofhardcore]

Just once I'd like to go on a gaming message board where Nobody's 360 has died but then it wouldn't be the case if I joined there there would be at least one person.

Sigh

next console will run on WIN ME knowing Microsoft....

[MachineGex]

Well, after about 6 months of very lite use, my 360 is about dead. It has frozen 5-6 times in less than 30 minutes. When it freezes, it looks like a regular PC freezing. Meaning, the screen kinda distorts a frozen image. I called and they said it is overheating. Onfortunately, I am not getting the 3 rings, just a frozen screen. The microsoft rep. said just keep trying to play it and by the end of the weekend, I will get the rings. I am pissed they want $99 to repair it, I have to sit here all weekend and try to get it to red-ring.
This is the LAST Microsoft system I ever get. It is also the first time I wished I owned a PS3 over a 360.

Can someone explain how the system "acts" when the RRoD happens? Does the system turn on and immediately go to the RRoD or does it take a few minutes/secords? Once you get the RRoD, is it possible that if you let the system sit for awhile, it is playable?

[Skelix]

If you first start getting the RROD you can usually get it going again. Shake it, wait a few days etc. Eventually though you will get it and that will be it. Usually after it RROD's you'll have another week or 2 before its a permanent RROD.

I don't remember getting freezes before it RROD'ed. I remeber it seemed to happen when I least expected it. Like I played a game for 5 minutes with no problems and said nah I want to play something else.. then blam.

[gepeto]

On friday I talked with the 2 ups mnn. I asked him how many of these boxes come and go. One said every day he has tons of them. HE said the real crazy thing that gets him is alot keep going back to the same house. The other said too many as well.

[consolecrusader]

Forget repairing anything Sharper Image 3 year plan baby my Elite is safe!

[Rob2600]

Forget repairing anything Sharper Image 3 year plan baby my Elite is safe!

In case you're not being sarcastic, on February 19, 2008, The Sharper Image filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

Wikipedia - The Sharper Image (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharper_Image)

[Skelix]

Elite 360 just died. Disk Drive is bad, no warning just everything is unrecognizable now. Called up M$ warranty ran out Sept 2. $99 to fix.

Well that's 3 units I bought that went bad plus countless refurbished units. Done buying for this system.

What a great system, too bad it's such shitty hardware.

[swlovinist]

People are going to beleive what they want. If they are a fanboy of the system, it will be hard to ask them to stop liking that system, polls or not. The truth of the matter is that the RROD has affected alot of people, my friends, my neighbors, and is not an isolated problem. MS messed up bigtime. There continues to be problems with their hardware more than any other system that has been out in the last 10 years, minus possibly the first PS2. To me, it does not matter what percentage of RROD there has been, they are too much...bottom line.

[The 1 2 P]

Elite 360 just died. Disk Drive is bad, no warning just everything is unrecognizable now. Called up M$ warranty ran out Sept 2. $99 to fix.

Well that's 3 units I bought that went bad plus countless refurbished units. Done buying for this system.

What a great system, too bad it's such shitty hardware.

That sucks man. And this is exactly why I always wait a few years to buy my systems after they launch. I got my Playstation One in December 1998(three years after it came out) and had no problems with it, even till this day. Same thing with my Xbox. I got the Halo special edition Xbox in June of 2004(three years after Xbox was released here) and the only problem I ever had was being unavailble to add time to my Xbox Live account on the console, so I just do it online. Now three years after the 360 came out--I will finally be getting a 60 gb version either at the end of this month or the beginning of next month. I know theres always a chance that something could go wrong, but my chances of that are alot better than those who got theres when it first came out.

[Skelix]

The worse part is, I dig the system so much. I posted all my earlier problems with them, most of the units I had were refurbished, but I've had 3/3 new units die now. (including an elite).

Even crazier is they are all dieing just outside of warranty. And then after all the shit I've been through they offer a repair for 1/2 (I hard they're going to $200?) the price of a new machine. Warranty on a refurb is 90 days, I think for $30 more you get another 30 days or something. They force you to buy a brand new one.

So now I'm trapped. The only system I care to play is the 360. I want to buy a new one, which money wise doesn't phase me. But principle wise...

Here's another interesting stat for people taking polls. So 360 sells more than PS3. But I've bought 3 360's (soon to be 4 I think) to my one PS3.

[The 1 2 P]

Well only you can decide if you want to get another one but here would be my advice. Since it's out of warrenty, list it on ebay as a non-working system. Sounds crazy but people actually bid on these and I've seen them go for $40-100(the trick is to start the bidding low). And yes, thats for a dead non-working system. I suppose some people just like the challenge of trying to fix a dead horse.....I mean, console.

Then take that money and put it toward your next console, rather thats a 360, PS3 or Wii. If it is a 360, Arcade's are now $199, 60 gb Pro's are $299 and Elite's are $399. But I'm curious. You said you brought your Elite new. It was my understanding that you are to get three years warranty from the date you purchase. Or was this problem something other than the three rings?

[s1lence]

Pffftt

This is why you buy 3 or 4 360's, that way you can just rotate them out. :p

I will say that the newer ones don't have the RRoD as much as the older ones from my experience, but they have alot of other errors.

[TheRealist50]

what kind of console is this where I am worried about buying games because what if it breaks and I'm out of warranty? So many games I'd love to get for the 360 but why would I when I only play 1 game a couple hours a week and it STILL dies on me. I'd much rather take that 60-70 bucks and buy a boat load of games for the Genesis, at least I know THAT wont die on me no matter how long I play it for.

[SegaAges]

I'm in the faulty Everything club.

I'm on my 2nd 360 now
Faulty Rock Band Guitar Club

I'm starting to have video issues with my 2nd 360 dunno if it's the Cable TV or the 360 (seemed to be a loose connection but still I've also had AV problems lately anyway)

so yeah.

my first 360 was made in August of 2006 my 2nd was made August of 2007 (no HDMI out though wah wah)

of my online friends all of them are on their 3rd 360. Of my real life friends none of them have had any problems with their 360 and one of them has a launch unit.

Welcome to the club of broken 360 stuff.

I have had my 360 fixed for rrod and also had my rock band guitar fixed.

It is just a good reason to hold out a little longer and catch a cheap sealed 360 on eBay for backup (since they r 200 now).

[The 1 2 P]

Well if my soon-to-be purchased new 2008 Xbox 360 dies for some unknown reason I'll be sure to post on here....after bitching out Microsoft's customer support.

[Skelix]

Well hopefully #4 new console works out for me. I figure what the hell I use the 360 too much to go cold turkey on it. Besides I kind of justified this one as my fault. I think my lack of cleaning the disc drive trashed this one.

Place is really dusty, I really noticed it the other day when using my PS3 I flipped down that little trap door on the left and it had a shitload of dust in it.

I figure the old one I'm gonna mod. I know the problem is only the disc drive. Reminds me of those old DRE PS2 errors. This one isn't the weird screen and the you must put a game in, this is straight up unrecognizable. Telling me it's just dirty.

Unfortunately I destroyed the case getting all Hulk on it, so that's gonna be a project I work on later.

As for customer support don't swear at them, usually cuts the call kind of short. I hung up on the last one. Prior to her, some guy thought my problem was software related. From the memory managment screen he had me go X X lft right bumpers then x x. Said to do that once a week and delete corrupted files on your hard drive. Was the first I ever heard of this and I did find corrupted files. Although delteing them didn't fix anything.