Ya think its possible to get a CIB set of MS-DOS games?

[James8BitStar]

I was just wondering this. Recently I've made it my life's mission to get complete CIB collections for every system I own. That includes my PC, but only up to a point (basically everything before Half-Life, and I'm thinking of going even further and setting the bar at Windows 95).

But I'm wondering if I shouldn't be a LITTLE lax in that regard. With one game already, I'm satisfied to just have the disks because I don't think the actual game was ever released in a box. It's probably gonna be hard enough to get even a near-complete set of MS-DOS games anyway since no one seems to know exactly how many were released.

... I dunno. How do you guys think I should approach this?

[thetoxicone]

With as many companies that released random crap pc games I would think it to be as close to impossible as any set could be.

[James8BitStar]

Another thing that sucks is that there isn't exactly a checklist like there is for console systems, least not one I've seen (I'm guessing any sort of complete list would be hard to make. Hell no one even knew games like the original Hack or Last Half of Darkness III even existed until they were found).

In fact I'm starting to think if I'm gonna seriously pursue PC game collecting I'm gonna have to invest in some old magazines and game catalogues.

[roushimsx]

Absolutely impossible. There are too many independently published games that had minuscule print runs and were only available in tiny regions, there are too many completely forgotten releases from long dead companies (especially when it comes to registered shareware versions and budget CD-ROM releases), and didn't even TOSEC pretty much give up trying to even catalog everything?

You're better off just targeting individual PC game series and slowly building complete sets of those. Fuck a duck if you even want to try to collect variations (3.5 and 5.25 releases, latest CD-ROM rereleases, compilations, updated remakes, etc), because then you'd be completely screwed.

tl;dr - Don't let me stop you. Massive DOS collections are fucking awesome.

[FlufflePuff]

Fuck a duck if you even want to try to collect variations (3.5 and 5.25 releases, latest CD-ROM rereleases, compilations, updated remakes, etc), because then you'd be completely screwed.

tl;dr - Don't let me stop you. Massive DOS collections are fucking awesome.

Pretty much sums it up perfectly.

[Fuyukaze]

You may need to invest in a second or third life time. Maybe if we are lucky, we can convince Adol to make this his next completion thing?

[roushimsx]

You may need to invest in a second or third life time. Maybe if we are lucky, we can convince Adol to make this his next completion thing?

He'd only do the japanese PC releases. Fuck that shit though, because Japanese PC software is, on average, a hell of a lot more expensive than US PC software (especially for imported stuff).

[Flack]

The first question you asked is, is it possible to have a complete CIB collection of PC Games. I'm not sure if you are using the word "possible" in the literal sense or not, so I'll address it both ways.

If you are asking if it is possible in the literal sense, then I would say yes. With enough time, money, and research, I think it would be possible to own every MS-DOS game. Expect to dedicate a small fortune and a decade or two (at least) to the project.

That being said, you know as well as I do, that it would be completely impractical and beyond most of our means to own a complete MS-DOS collection. Let's take Sierra for example.

According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sierra_Entertainment_video_games), between 1980 and 1995 (using your Windows 95 cut off date), Sierra released 160 titles. I counted. To be fair, not all of those titles are DOS titles, but most are.

I just checked eBay for King's Quest games. King's Quest 3-5 sell for about $10 with another $10 in shipping. 6-8 are cheaper than that, averaging around $10 w/shipping. I found KQ1 for $5 and KQ2 for $20. With rounding, that puts you at $15/game. I realize this is completely unscientific, but it gives us a number to play with.

Going back to Sierra, 160 titles x $15 = $2,400. That's assuming you can even find them. I couldn't find over half the titles on eBay, and most of the ones I did find were disk only, no box. Price for loose games w/shipping was between $5-$10, and the price for boxed ones w/shipping seems to be around $20 (Thexder (http://cgi.ebay.com/CLASSIC-Thexder-PC-Game-FULL-BOX-IBM-TANDY-3-5-5-25_W0QQitemZ270223744976QQihZ017QQcategoryZ62053QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem), Leisure Suit Larry 5 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Leisure-Suit-Larry-5-Sierra-Vintage-Game_W0QQitemZ180225963508QQihZ008QQcategoryZ4315Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem), The Black Cauldron (http://cgi.ebay.com/The-Black-Cauldron-PC-Vintage-Sierra-Walt-Disney-1985_W0QQitemZ370037987173QQihZ024QQcategoryZ4315Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem), etc.) In retrospect, our $15/game price may actually be too low.

And that's just Sierra, a company big enough that someone has documented all their releases. What about the hundreds if not thousands of companies who only released a couple of games and remained small enough to fly under Wikipedia's radar? Or, the entire web's radar?

[smork]

I vote for utterly and completely impossible. What would it be, 50K titles? I think if you can identify every MSDOS title you'd have something. I don't even think that's possible.

Just think of all the custom and boutique software written. Someone publishes an edutainment game for a school district. Somebody else makes a game, sells copies at a trade show. Who'd know? Who could identify all commercially sold games?

At least where there's licensing someone has a record.

[Volcanon]

Why not just try for every game from a certain DOS company? Like Maxis - Simcity, Simcity 2000, Simcity 3000, simcity 4000 etc.

[Poofta!]

Absolutely impossible. There are too many independently published games that had minuscule print runs and were only available in tiny regions, there are too many completely forgotten releases from long dead companies (especially when it comes to registered shareware versions and budget CD-ROM releases), and didn't even TOSEC pretty much give up trying to even catalog everything?

You're better off just targeting individual PC game series and slowly building complete sets of those. Fuck a duck if you even want to try to collect variations (3.5 and 5.25 releases, latest CD-ROM rereleases, compilations, updated remakes, etc), because then you'd be completely screwed.

tl;dr - Don't let me stop you. Massive DOS collections are fucking awesome.

exactly

it is absolutely impossible, since there isnt even a catalogue of every game released. a guy in the basement with a registered company name with only 2 employees released like 5 games each with a print run of MAYBE 1000, youre not getting those, nor will you eve know they existed.

its actually probably impossible to even find them in warez form.


also, youre lifes mission, sucks.
gaming/collecting is a hobby, not purpose to living.

[ianoid]

I agree, you would want to go company by company, Sierra, EA, Maxis, whatever.

I do collect old software, but it's the rare instance where completionism is a lost cause for me. I need a list to get a feeling like I'm partaking in a goal directed activity. It's kind of fun to have a section of my collection that is basically full of optional low priority stuff that I could mostly blow out any time.

My old software (disk) collection focuses on standard stuff: Ultima, AD&D, Hack N Slash, EA, classic arcade type titles. I enjoy having mega-popular stuff like the Diablo Battlechest, Neverwinter Nights platinum, Dungeon Siege (really with the hope of playing Lazarus some day) that holds to that Fantasy RPG action ethos.

I think that it's kind of a bad time to get into software. Maybe 5 years ago the stuff had hardly any value, but I think the value is going up a bit. It was mostly Sierra and Ultima that cost alot. Now Sierra is worth less, and random stuff is gaining in value. It may be a function of there being less out there to find and sell, but I suspect that software is becoming more novel with time (floppies), and thus more interesting to collectors.

I think it would be a 5000+ piece collection and that's alot of space. It's probably less an issue of money, and more of space. There is a limit to the valuable titles you can find out there, so it's better to take them slowly and just be a bottom feeder going for lots and deals.

ian

[swlovinist]

Even with all the money in the world, and every contact in the world...impossible. More power to you on your collection. Big vintage computer collections are unique and often hard to start these days, as unlike their console counterparts, many users have simply just thrown out millions of dos games.

[norkusa]

Before, I'd say you're nuts to think that a complete set of DOS games is conceivable . But after seeing Adol's complete Famicom, PC Engine, and his 19 other complete collections, I'd say anything is possible.

[DreamTR]

I would almost compare this to trying to collect every VHS Tape released. Not possible.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

ANYTHING is POSSIBLE.

This is ... highly improbable. :D

[FlufflePuff]

Many people have commented on the fact that there is no catalogue available that lists all of the MS-DOS games released. I'd say make that your mission. To document every game that was put out there. It'll be a hell of a lot cheaper, and you'll probably find that by the time your done cataloging them you really don't want to spend the time/money it would take.

[Bojay1997]

I guess my response would be why bother? I would suspect that the PC has more crappy games percentage wise than any other system on the planet. Also, you would never be able to play them all and always be worried about the discs going bad. You're better off just collecting certain developers like other have suggested or maybe looking for really odd ball titles that have neat box art or novel play dynamics.

[prismra]

I think what you're attempting to do is freakin' awesome. I would side with the crowd here and say that you will not be able to get a 100% complete copy of every MS-DOS game released but you could probably take a pretty big bite out of it. First step would be to make the catalogue. A while back I downloaded an 8GB DOS games torrent (gasp!) and it's fairly extensive. I can create a directory listing for you of my DOS games directory and send it to you. That would be a pretty good start. PM me if I can help you out. I'd like to be involved. :)

[Ze_ro]

Many people have commented on the fact that there is no catalogue available that lists all of the MS-DOS games released. I'd say make that your mission. To document every game that was put out there.
I've surprised no one has really tried this yet, though it would definitely be a daunting task. There are so many amateur games out there that it would be very difficult to decide what would count as a legitimate commercial release.

Even though a complete MS-DOS collection may be astronomically difficult, I say shoot for them moon. Even though you may know deep down that you'll never get it all, you could still take solace in the fact that you'd get farther than anyone else! ;)

--Zero

[James8BitStar]

After reading all the comments and thinking about it, here's what I've come to conclude:

I'm thinking the best option is to just grab whatever CIB DOS games turn up, in the wild or on eBay or on the moon or wherever, money permitting. I also wouldn't be too messed up about buying the same game twice (once just to have and archive the disks, second if I ever found a boxed copy).

The hardest part is going to be the Shareware days, in which the only way I'll even know about other games is ads, and even just first episodes are hard as nuts to find. And I think in most cases, episodes 2, 3, and whatever else were just released in mail-order ziploc bags, which is gonna make everything a pain.

But, its worth it to at least see how much I can get.

[Jorpho]

also, youre lifes mission, sucks.
gaming/collecting is a hobby, not purpose to living.

He kinda has a point there.

[DefaultGen]

.....

[Cornelius]

One of the bigger practical problems I see is that there are hardly any lots of dos games sold. When there are, it is maybe 3 or 5 or something, not 20-100 like is common with console game lots. Imagine having to find/buy the entire PSX collection one at a time. Then do it 10(?) times. Oh, and probably half the games aren't on eBay even once a year!

[cyberfluxor]

Good luck. It's quite impossible due to many reasons listed above, however don't let that stop you from enjoying the classic PC games. Keep an eye open and be a little picky. I'll buy a cheap CD game if it's in great condition and has the jewel case inserts, big box is a bonus. Don't spend too much on magnetic storage games unless it contains most to all of the pack-ins. IMHO discovering if the game you bought is "100% complete" is generally the hard part. Registration cards, booklets, maps, posters, bonus shareware disks, ect.

[Flack]

MobyGames has 4,241 DOS games in their database and another 8,000 Windows games. That would be a good place to start your collection.

[PapaStu]

MobyGames has 4,241 DOS games in their database and another 8,000 Windows games. That would be a good place to start your collection.

Thats only like a complete US and JPN PS collection numbers wise! Totally dooable!

I vote that you make this your first 'complete' collection since it seems that you are really looking for a challenge.

[James8BitStar]

He kinda has a point there.

I dunno. I think if people can dedicate their lives to following a bunch of contradictory rules layed out to inconsistently portrayed characters from a string of pseudohistorical short stories, then collecting video games--which A) provides inspiration for my other activities and B) leads to the preservation of an art form--isn't so bad.

[Coleman]

I dunno. I think if people can dedicate their lives to following a bunch of contradictory rules layed out to inconsistently portrayed characters from a string of pseudohistorical short stories, then collecting video games--which A) provides inspiration for my other activities and B) leads to the preservation of an art form--isn't so bad.

Very well said!

I am also interested in this idea and have been toying around with the concept for years. Here are the problems that i face...

My money supply is not endless. I can't justify spending 10k on something like the uber rare collectors version of the untold chronicles of Zork... or some other such nonsense. My hobby is the result of my enjoyment received from my actions. I collect games because of 2 main reasons: 1st I enjoy playing them and the nostolgic feeling they inspire. 2nd the act of collecting something is fun for me - this becomes more fun when collecting does not require a morgage payment to keep up with my hobby from one month to the next. I initially became a collector because I was buying NES games at like $1 ea.

The point was made in a previous post that magnetic storage has a shelf life. What do i do when my CIB collection does not work any more? Kinda takes the fun out of it for me! Please if someone has a soloution to this situation by all means share it with me. At this point i evaluate the situation and basicly come to the conclusion that i am not collecting the games I am collecting the stuff that came with the games.

Another problem is certainly the argument that you will never know if your set is complete. My perspective on this situation is that you should absoloutly make a list with the understanding that this list may change that will be the list you are trying to complete. I think that all completists out there will consider this to be a great service to the comunity if you are willing to share your list.

[Family Computer]

I dunno. I think if people can dedicate their lives to following a bunch of contradictory rules layed out to inconsistently portrayed characters from a string of pseudohistorical short stories, then collecting video games--which A) provides inspiration for my other activities and B) leads to the preservation of an art form--isn't so bad.


well then, at least you are kidding yourself which is what mostly matters

[zemmix]

I have a lot of Dos/windows games and it's nothing like collecting for a console. The boxes take up a lot more room than any console system not to mention they are all different sizes so organizing and storing is a pain. And some of them weigh a TON like Falcon 3.0 gold or some of those other old ones with lots of paper extras. There's a lot of junk too. Just try to be specific like others have said and only go for Microprose, Sierra, Origin, Infocom (well thats pre-dos I guess) the old EA record style boxes and the like.

[Ze_ro]

Infocom (well thats pre-dos I guess)
Eh? Pre-DOS? Were there CP/M versions or something? ;)

--Zero

[Trebuken]

Collecting Vista compatible games. It's then move on to XP compatible...

[Ed Oscuro]

How many C64 games are there again? (I forgot, oops!)

I think there are more expensive PC games than there are C64 ones.

[TheRedEye]

Is there any particular reason you'd go MS-DOS and not something SLIGHTLY more manageable and fun like C64, Amiga or Atari 8-Bit?

[James8BitStar]

Is there any particular reason you'd go MS-DOS and not something SLIGHTLY more manageable and fun like C64, Amiga or Atari 8-Bit?

As I said in my original post: I'm collecting for systems and computers I actually own.

Though I wouldn't mind owning another computer system (possibly an Amiga or an Apple IIGS) in the distant future, right now its not feasible nor within my line of interest.

[boatofcar]

Though I wouldn't mind owning another computer system (possibly an Amiga or an Apple IIGS) in the distant future, right now its not feasible nor within my line of interest.

Not as feasible as collecting every MS-DOS game ever made?@_@

[Ed Oscuro]

Is there any particular reason you'd go MS-DOS and not something SLIGHTLY more manageable and fun like C64, Amiga or Atari 8-Bit?
The "complete set" part should tip everybody off.


Though I wouldn't mind owning another computer system (possibly an Amiga or an Apple IIGS) in the distant future, right now its not feasible nor within my line of interest.
After you've played the thousandth bottom-of-the-barrel MS-DOS release you'll find that's not within your line of interest - at least I don't expect so!

[secretvampire]

After you've played the thousandth bottom-of-the-barrel MS-DOS release you'll find that's not within your line of interest - at least I don't expect so!
Good God, QFT. I absolutely love collecting vintage DOS games, but there is just a frickin' RIDICULOUS amount of crap games that were produced.

[James8BitStar]

I gotta wonder why the "rediculus amount of crap games" is such a problem on MS-DOS yet people are willing to sidestep the issue when going for completes on console systems.

[Jorpho]

I gotta wonder why the "rediculus amount of crap games" is such a problem on MS-DOS yet people are willing to sidestep the issue when going for completes on console systems.

Because owning a few hundred bits of carefully-quantized crap is a much less daunting prospect than owning inconceivably large mountains of crap?

[James8BitStar]

Not as feasible as collecting every MS-DOS game ever made?@_@

It's more feasible to start on a system you already own and already have a few games (some CIB) for than it is to buy a whole new computer system and start from scratch. Honestly, what's so hard to understand about that?

[boatofcar]

It's more feasible to start on a system you already own and already have a few games (some CIB) for than it is to buy a whole new computer system and start from scratch. Honestly, what's so hard to understand about that?

You're right. That totally makes it easier to get a complete set of games no one has even catalogued.