The Early 3D era...

[Ed Oscuro]

Anyway, it's true that games tend to last longer on PSX, it's not a myth at all as you can use 2
When you say "tend" you're talking about averages and generalities.

Multi-disc games weren't the rule on the PlayStation - and even then FFVII is easily countered with the "gameplay vs. movie watching" argument, I suppose.

[tom]

When you say "tend" you're talking about averages and generalities.


Exactly

[sabre2922]

This ones for all the N64 fans here:
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/202642.html

enjoy:kiss:

[boatofcar]

This ones for all the N64 fans here:
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/202642.html

enjoy:kiss:

An anti-Nintendo post from sabre2922? I can't believe it!

[Rob2600]

you're kidding yourself if you honestly think PlayStation games provided larger environments or lengthier games than N64 with its cartridge medium. ...

If you take just about any platformer on N64 and compare it to a platformer on PlayStation, you'll generally find that the N64 games tend to have MORE expansive levels than those on PlayStation ... and they often took longer to complete as well. Ogre Battle 64 is longer than most PlayStation RPGs.

I'll never understand the myth perpetuating about larger medium = larger/longer games. Generally, this has not held true.

I agree. If that were the case, 50 GB Blu-ray PS3 games would go on for hundreds of hours, while "outdated" cartridge DS games would only last ten minutes.


That's what you call a lousy design. ... If you want good games, make the hardware design simple

That's what Nintendo did with the GameCube architecture...an efficient design with super-fast RAM. That's also what Sega tried to do with the Dreamcast. Even Microsoft stuck to the standard x86 architecture that computer programmers have been developing on for decades.


This ones for all the N64 fans here:
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/202642.html

I like this comment someone left for that video:

"Yeah, it's so true that the N64 contributed nothing to gaming. I mean, who in this day and age is stupid enough to use rumble in their controllers? Or analogue sticks? Or peripherals that make it so you can link a handheld with the console? And other companies did not at all copy ideas from games like OoT, Mario 64, Goldeneye, or Perfect Dark. I could rant all day about how the N64 contributed nothing to gaming"



An anti-Nintendo post from sabre2922? I can't believe it!

Funny!

[Berserker]

I'm highly appreciative of the earlier 3D stuff, in nearly all its forms.

However, Jet Moto 2 will probably always just give me a fucking headache.

[j_factor]

Bigger in what way? If you mean purely in the storage size, yes, but you're kidding yourself if you honestly think PlayStation games provided larger environments or lengthy games than N64 with its cartridge medium. Most of the space on PlayStation discs was squandered on redbook audio and/or FMV sequences, or, in lieu of that, developers could simply more easily put out a game quickly without taking the time to optimize and condense the code.

(snip)

I'll never understand the myth perpetuating about larger medium = larger/longer games. Generally, this has not held true.

So uh... how come the N64 version of Quake has so much cut out of it? You don't think that had anything to do with the cartridge format?

[tom]

This ones for all the N64 fans here:
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/202642.html

enjoy:kiss:

Wow, I haven't wipped mine out and haven't played with it since 5 years ago last, but watching that video....those games do look bad.
Rayman 2(N64) vs Rayman (Jaguar)...Jaguar's the clear winner here.


Reason number 2 sums it all up what Ed Oscuro, Rob2600 and Aussie2B don't understand.

[DeputyMoniker]

I was just trying to play a few ps1 games from warhawk to crash bandicoot, and I was just disgusted by the graphics. To an exent even back then I remember not being too fond of ps/n64/sat gen graphics, but now it's nearing intolerable.

I will admit though, some have aged wonderfully. Spyro, Mario 64, Banjo Kazooie, and FF, I'm looking at you.

Anyone else finding it hard to play your old 3D games?

I hear you. The last time I played Tomb Raider it made my eyes burn. It didn't disgust me though. You bring up a good point. In general, to me, it's harder to play an aged 3D game than it is to play an aged 2D game. I think, as far as quality titles go, we have reached a point in technology where we are getting 3D games that, 20 years from now, will have the same effect that a 20 year old 2D game has on us now. I don't think we're going to play Resident Evil 4, 20 years from now, and think "Fuuuck...this is hard to look at."
So yeah, those early 3D games can be murder but I find them to be playable and enjoyable.

[tom]

True though, i play my PSX games and I think just the same, awful graphics, terrible pixelation and the ever annoying pop-ups.

3D Amiga/ST games and PC games didn't age well either. Hunter (Activision) looks primitive, 4D Sports Driving (Stunts), Broderbund) looks like a Commodore 64 title (but still good fun).

[Rob2600]

it's harder to play an aged 3D game than it is to play an aged 2D game. I think, as far as quality titles go, we have reached a point in technology where we are getting 3D games that, 20 years from now, will have the same effect that a 20 year old 2D game has on us now.

I think the 3D graphics timeline is similar to the 2D graphics timeline:

The PlayStation and the Saturn are equivalent to the Atari 2600. There were some great games back then, but a lot of them are difficult to go back to now. The Nintendo 64 is equivalent to the ColecoVision. The graphics are a little bit better, but it's still early on in terms of 3D graphics.

Maybe the Dreamcast is like the NES...better graphics that have aged pretty well and are usually easy to go back to.

[MrSparkle]

I would agree with that post, but Battle Arena Toshinden really sucks. :p

haha here here battle arena toshinden may have been an early home console 3d fighter but man was it a dog, not just graphics the slower than tekken gameplay never really did it for me. virtua fighter on 32x FTW. (graphics were better and so was the gameplay)

[Coleman]

Wow this thread proves what i have been saying for years - games are not about graphics - they are about game play!!!!

The fact that this thread even exists should prove it - everyone has some games that they go back and play with all graphic levels however they are not playing them because of how they look! Honestly I have more fun in a 5 min round of fast food or kaboom then I do with any amazing CGI shots you can shove at me! Sure COD 4 looks amazing, but it has great game play to back it up. Rock band has aweful graphics but people love it. Why? - its the gameplay!

Now it is certainly true that some games don't age well. We all have gone back to one of those games we played as a kid and said wow!!! this sux! But it usualy has nothing to do with the graphics - other than the fact that we are no longer in awe over the graphics to be blind to the poor game play.

Thats just my opinion - I could be wrong.

[Dire 51]

Wow this thread proves what i have been saying for years - games are not about graphics - they are about game play!!!!
This all reminds me of a story from the very brief time I worked for GameStop in late 2004:

This kid (maybe 12-13) comes up to me and asks to take a look at Final Fantasy Anthology, which we kept under lock and key at the time along with some of the other harder-to-find PS1 games. So I open up the case and let him take a look at it.

He looks at it for a few minutes, all the while asking me questions like what my favorite FF game was, what games these were in the U.S., and what the battle graphics are like. I point out the battle screenshot on the back, at which point he kind of looks at me in disgust and says something like "those look like GameBoy graphics". I narrowed my eyes, but let it pass.

Anyway, he thinks about it for another few minutes, then says "Well, I don't know, I was expecting graphics more like FF 7, 8 or 9". At that point, I said to him "You know, if you end up passing up a game because the graphics aren't what you were expecting, you might be passing up one of the greatest games you've ever played. You'll never know, either, unless you try it. Think about that." He nods, then walks away.

Five minutes later he and his mother walk up to the counter and proceed to buy the game. Score one victory for the gameplay-over-graphics argument, no matter how small it may be. He never returned it either, so I'm guessing he ended up liking it. Either that, or he took it elsewhere to sell it. I don't know. I'd like to think that the former was the case.

[tom]

It think the PlayStation and the Saturn are equivalent to the Atari 2600. There were some great games back then, but a lot of them are difficult to go back to now. The Nintendo 64 is equivalent to the ColecoVision. The graphics are a little bit better, but it's still early on in terms of 3D graphics.


That is not a bad comparison, as I still play regular on the VCS nowadays, and the Colecovision hardly gets touched. Same with the PS, still love to play it, N64...nah, not so much.

[Aussie2B]

No no it wasn't me who was kidding myself, it was Square who said we gotta do FF VII on PS CD as we cannot fit it onto Nintendo cartridges (for N64), also meaning a larger playing enviroment. I knew they wouldn't understand, but I'm glad you do.

Anyway, it's true that games tend to last longer on PSX, it's not a myth at all as you can use 2, or 3 or even more CDs for one game. You cannot do that with cartridges on N64.

You missed all the points of my post entirely. Having extra storage does not automatically mean you get a longer game. There are plenty of multi-disc games on PlayStation that struggle to pull in double digits in terms of hours.

Of course Final Fantasy VII could've been on N64. It would just end up being a lot different, and that's not the kind of game Squaresoft was looking to make. They wouldn't be able to have all the FMV (they could've had some, though, as Resident Evil 2 demonstrates), and they likely would've had to ditch the space-hogging pre-rendered bitmaps, going for real-time 3D environments or such. The polygon work would've likely looked better, though, considering the N64 is a more capable 3D machine. Heck, even that little tech demo they did rendering the Final Fantasy VI characters in 3D looked leagues better than anything polygonal that ended up in Final Fantasy VII.

Length is not an issue whatsoever. I'd say Final Fantasy VII averages at about a 40 hour game. I can think of many N64 games that match and even surpass that. Most of that time is used up on disc 1 as well, as you'll be lucky to get about 10 hours a piece out of discs 2 and 3. When you look at it at a disc by disc basis, it's even less impressive. Like I said previously, the FMV is eating up all the storage.

[sabre2922]

An anti-Nintendo post from sabre2922? I can't believe it!

Dont start this again.

I am NOT anti-Nintendo ANYTHING.

I luv the N.E.S. , SNES and yes even the GAMECUBE.

But the N64...HELL NO.

and If ya wanna play then lets PLAY BABY.

Here is why the N64 is so freaking overrated:

--------------------------------------------------------------

"No matter if you like the Nintendo 64 or not, Nintendo's power officially shifted when they decided to choose cartridges over CDs. By spending more time convincing the world that CDs had longer load times, couldn't be saved on, and were slower, Nintendo was never able to quite get the momentum they needed to make the N64 as a successful system as the NES or SNES. For the first time Nintendo sounded like the old fogy who wouldn't have anything to do with "modern" gaming, and ended up alienating their fan base.
http://disgruntleddesigner.com/chrisc/images/wb64.jpg
No matter what many Nintendophiles would like you to believe the decision to keep with the EVEN THEN OUTDATED CARTRIDGE FORMAT for the N64 severely hampered the N64s true capabilities and forced some MAJOR third parties to go to the "dark side" and develop/publish some of their most popular game franchises on the PSone simply because the cartridge format was so restricting when it came to overall storage space and capabilities.
Sure the hold outs often point out that they liked cartridge since the N64 had NO LOAD TIMES but that is just about the ONLY true argument that the defenders of the ol N64 have when comparing the old "cartridge vs. CD" debate that raged oh so many years ago and it is used over and over and over by those few gamers that still try in vein to defend Nintendos reasoning for sticking with cartridges for the N64 instead of going with the (then) far advanced storage capabilities of the CD.



"But there was Resident Evil 2 on the N64 Cartridge" you may be saying to yourself.
http://home.twcny.rr.com/nintendo64/resident_evil_2_box.jpg
Many of the N64 fanboys use the old argument about how Resident Evil 2 was released on the Cartridge format and how it showed that a 2-CD PSone game could be compressed into a N64 cartridge. Well my response to that is this: RESIDENT EVIL 2 ON THE N64 WAS THE EXCEPTION NOT THE RULE! RE2 on the N64 was a miracle of "then" modern tech compression methods that many technophiles still talk about to this day.
The FMV was highly compressed as well as the music and the sound effects among other things in order to stuff it all on an incredibly LARGE and incredibly EXPENSIVE N64 cartridge.

It has taken this long and the release of the very successful Wii console for Nintendo to recover from the loss of both their third party support and the many gamers they lost during the turbulent and (for many older gamers that remember those days all too well) confusing times of the N64 era for Nintendo.

I wont even get into how horrid the N64 controller truly was even though yes it did make popular the whole analog thing, but it was first and foremost NOT the first video game console to use analog control and it felt like it was built by FISHER PRICE. Yea I wont even go there.



Other large NEGATIVES of the overrated casual gamer favored Nintendo64:

#1. absolutely NO great third party RPGs! the only real good third party RPG was Ogre Battle64 other than that the only great RPGS -at all- on the N64 were developed and published by Nintendo themselves namely the two Zeldas and Paper Mario (if one considers that a true RPG, great game nonetheless).

#2. No real 2-D or 3-D fighters on the N64 at a time when fighters both 2-D and 3-D were at an all time popularity. and NO Mortal Kombat Trilogy and Killer Instinct Gold DO NOT COUNT and crap like War Gods or Clay Fighter 64 should not even be put in the same sentence as any real console fighter.

While the other main game systems of the time were getting great and revolutionary 3-D fighters like Virtua Fighter 2 and the Tekken series and great 2-D fighters like the Streetfighter Apha series King of Fighters the VS series and MANY MANY others for both the Playstation One and the Sega Saturn the N64 got games like Clay Fighter and Rise of the Robots.

The N64 version of MK Trillogy was barely as good as the PSone version and the Sega Saturn version was the best overall and Killer Instinct Gold was OK at best but it was but a shell of the excellent arcade versions that used much more advanced arcade architecture that the N64 just could NOT match mostly because of the lack of a disk drive.

The Super Nintendo Entertainment System was and still is my favorite home video game console to this day but the N64 just WAS NOT up to par with what Nintendo was truly capable of and in all reality the N64 was a let down to all but the most hardcore of Nintendophiles and fanboys.

__________________________________________________ _____________________________

--------------------------------------------------------------

Of course Nintendo has done a LOT of great things in the past and here are just a few of them:

The Gave us advanced Controls with Analog Sticks

Not to mention Mario, Zelda, and dozens of other franchises we still look forward to. And isn't it worth it to have Mario Kart?? The truth is, Nintendo is responsible for some of the best games of all time, and we really should acknowledge that.
http://nintendoforever.free.fr/Nes/Zelda1/Zelda1_fichiers/zelda1_cartouche.jpg

They Gave Birth to both 2D and 3D Platformers! sure there was Pitfall but Nintendo really took the platformer to the next level with Super Mario Bros.

If it weren't for games like Super Mario Bros. and Donkey Kong, we would probably not be playing games like Ratchet and Clank Future or obviously Super MARIO GALAXY on the Wii.
Many a gamer has had a love affair with the platformer both 2-D and 3-D, no matter how old they are or what kind of games genre they like.

They Saved the Industry!
After the great game crash of 1983 Nintendo single-handedly brought the game industry back to life. And unless you are completely heartless, that should mean for something, no matter what bad decisions they have made in the past.

And lets not forget the Wii and the DS with both these new and forward thinking systems Nintendo has once again changed the landscape of video games and innovated where others failed to see the future.

Since the release and incredible success of the DS and now the Wii Nintendo has once again changed what some critics were saying was a "stagnant and dying industry" now when did we hear that before? oh ya back in the day of the great video game crash of '83-84 and look who saved our collective gaming asses then? yep good ol Nintendo."

Top 10 Nintendo Mistakes by yea ME Sabre2922 the so called "anti-Nintendo" guy WHICH I AM NOT : http://sabre2922.gametrailers.com/gamepad/index.php?action=viewblog&id=155846

Now feel free to flame away and hate all you want.

[tom]

--------------------------------------------------------------

Of course Nintendo has done a LOT of great things in the past and here are just a few of them:

1: The Gave us advanced Controls with Analog Sticks

2: Not to mention Mario, Zelda, and dozens of other franchises we still look forward to. And isn't it worth it to have Mario Kart?? The truth is, Nintendo is responsible for some of the best games of all time, and we really should acknowledge that.
http://nintendoforever.free.fr/Nes/Zelda1/Zelda1_fichiers/zelda1_cartouche.jpg

3: They Gave Birth to both 2D and 3D Platformers! sure there was Pitfall but Nintendo really took the platformer to the next level with Super Mario Bros.

4: If it weren't for games like Super Mario Bros. and Donkey Kong, we would probably not be playing games like Ratchet and Clank Future or obviously Super MARIO GALAXY on the Wii.
Many a gamer has had a love affair with the platformer both 2-D and 3-D, no matter how old they are or what kind of games genre they like.

5: They Saved the Industry!
After the great game crash of 1983 Nintendo single-handedly brought the game industry back to life. And unless you are completely heartless, that should mean for something, no matter what bad decisions they have made in the past.

6: And lets not forget the Wii and the DS with both these new and forward thinking systems Nintendo has once again changed the landscape of video games and innovated where others failed to see the future.

7: Since the release and incredible success of the DS and now the Wii Nintendo has once again changed what some critics were saying was a "stagnant and dying industry" now when did we hear that before? oh ya back in the day of the great video game crash of '83-84 and look who saved our collective gaming asses then? yep good ol Nintendo."

Top 10 Nintendo Mistakes by yea ME Sabre2922 the so called "anti-Nintendo" guy WHICH I AM NOT : http://sabre2922.gametrailers.com/gamepad/index.php?action=viewblog&id=155846

Now feel free to flame away and hate all you want.


1: Did they really? All I know they gave us Joypads/controls which were the wrong way, eg control = left hand, fire button = right hand. One could argue that Vectrex already did that previously, but then, they already gave us the analogue control, just like Atari did.

2: True.

3: Doubt it. Computers like C64 and Apple ][ were more responsible for this; a good example, The Castles of Dr Creep, Bounty Bob, Lode Runner, Lode Runner's Rescue, Necromancer, Rainbow Walker, Matterhorn, etc. Broderbund/Sierra/Activision/Epyx/Synapse and many more companies provided many platform titles for these computers. C64 and Apple ][ carried on with 2D platformers where VCS/Coleco/Intellivision left off. Remember there was a 2 1/2 year gap between the crash and NOA's introduction of the NES in June 1985. It would take another year to get the NES nationwide in US (Game Over). In these 2 1/2 - 3 years, a lot of gaming advancement happened on home computers, especially in USA and UK.
3D, ok let's give that one to Nintendo. Some people argue with me to say Alone in the Dark came earlier, but is AITD a 3D platformer?

4: see 3, remember computers carried on inventing genres, as did the arcades.

5: Again, see point 3, NES only re-awakened the interest in console video gaming. In the USA, companies like EA, Origin, Borderbund, Sierra, Microprose, Epyx, Activision were doing great on home computer. And don't forget the slow, but unstoppable rise of the IBM compatible in the USA since 1984.

6: Wii. they only took arcade controls back to the home user. Which is a good thing, my granny loves waving her 'wand' (as she calls it!) around, and she never played video games before.

7: the industry was never really dying, as computers took over after console gaming. And PC gaming is even more popular than it was ever before and is as always on the increase. PC gaming is huge, look at the software range, biggest in the world.
On the other hand, the arcade industry is dying, probably almost dead.

Nice try though.

[pookninja]

I agree with this post. Sure, the graphics are crap compared to those of the current-gen consoles and don't hold up as well as 2D does, but I can easily go back to PSX, N64 and Saturn games and enjoy them as much as I did so many years ago.i would have to disagree.i still play crash bandicoot and jumping flash often,and i think they look fine.one of my favorites for psx that didnt age well imo is destruction derby.looks god awful.

[Juskin]

Basically, it's possible to play good games with outdated/bad graphics, but it ain't easy. As for the early 3d games that have very aged gameplay, well JUST GAMEOVER for you...unless nostalgia compels me to play you again.

[Graham Mitchell]

No no it wasn't me who was kidding myself, it was Square who said we gotta do FF VII on PS CD as we cannot fit it onto Nintendo cartridges (for N64), also meaning a larger playing enviroment. I knew they wouldn't understand, but I'm glad you do.


I think that, in hindsight, the only reason Square wanted to do FFVII on a CD is for the rendered video. You can store an absolutely gargantuan amount of text and imagery on a single CD. Look at some of the PS2 titles released on CD--Ico, Maximo...these games probably contain at least the same amount of real-time game data that FFVII does (likely more) but they're not cluttered with digital sound and video, which was the real space hog on those discs.

Ocarina of Time is pretty big game as well, but all the enviroments are fully rendered in realtime, and lacks voice overs and digital video. But I think the size of the world and the complexity of the environments you explore is comparable to FFVII, despite being in cartridge format. Super Mario 64 also has a pretty darn big number of unique areas to explore as well.

Let's face it: Square went CD to utilize FMV. FFVII probably could have been squeezed into an N64 cart if they did away with the videos.

[Kevincal]

Well, for you N64 haters, say what you want to say. But, many of us LOVED the N64 and still do. I bought a PLaystation on launch day along with over a dozen games soon after. I loved it. Then I bought an N64 on launch day and was completely blown away by how awesome Mario 64 was. Then I was blown away all over again by WaveRace 64. Of course there are many other games on the N64 worth mentioning. But this whole idea that someone is put off by a system just because of the media format they use, is a real copout. Admit it N64 haters, the reason you didn't get an N64 is because you already had you mind made up that the N64 must suck. And/or you already were on the Saturn or Playstation badnwagon and are the types that have to bash any system that you don't own. Blind loyalty I think it's called. N64 rules.

After typing this I kinda realized something. I have a feeling most of you that hate the N64 is mainly because of the lack of RPGs. Specifically, you all had an SNES and obviously that system had dozens of great rpgs. Then the N64 left you high and dry so you took up the attitude that it sucked. Well, I can kind of sympathize. But at the same time, why are you blaming Nintendo when Squaresoft are really the ones that screwed you over. THey also used the copout argument that carts were no good and they had to use CD... Seems to me that Squaresoft is/was a sellout to Sony and left Nintendo high and dry... But then, if you were a 16 bit rpg fan, all you had to do was get a Playstation and you were happy. It doesn't give you the right to call the N64 crap though! Because it sure isn't... ;)

[Juskin]

Well, for you N64 haters, say what you want to say. But, many of us LOVED the N64 and still do. I bought a PLaystation on launch day along with over a dozen games soon after. I loved it. Then I bought an N64 on launch day and was completely blown away by how awesome Mario 64 was. Then I was blown away all over again by WaveRace 64. Of course there are many other games on the N64 worth mentioning. But this whole idea that someone is put off by a system just because of the media format they use, is a real copout. Admit it N64 haters, the reason you didn't get an N64 is because you already had you mind made up that the N64 must suck. And/or you already were on the Saturn or Playstation badnwagon and are the types that have to bash any system that you don't own. Blind loyalty I think it's called. N64 rules.

After typing this I kinda realized something. I have a feeling most of you that hate the N64 is mainly because of the lack of RPGs. Specifically, you all had an SNES and obviously that system had dozens of great rpgs. Then the N64 left you high and dry so you took up the attitude that it sucked. Well, I can kind of sympathize. But at the same time, why are you blaming Nintendo when Squaresoft are really the ones that screwed you over. THey also used the copout argument that carts were no good and they had to use CD... Seems to me that Squaresoft is/was a sellout to Sony and left Nintendo high and dry... But then, if you were a 16 bit rpg fan, all you had to do was get a Playstation and you were happy. It doesn't give you the right to call the N64 crap though! Because it sure isn't... ;)

I'm on the side of both. Sure, the ps probably was more varied in its games and probably had a lot more quality titles. But I think when you consider the awesome quality of some n64 games from Mario 64 to Oot, it more than evens out.

Graphics wise, I'd give it to the n64. I liked the smoothed and blurred out look that made the polys look a little less rough. Though that's more opinion based than anything else.

PS = N64 for the most part.

Now Ps2 vs. GC, we all know who the winner is. But that's for another thread....

[Rob2600]

I have a feeling most of you that hate the N64 is mainly because of the lack of RPGs. ... I can kind of sympathize. But at the same time, why are you blaming Nintendo when Squaresoft are really the ones that screwed you over. THey also used the copout argument that carts were no good and they had to use CD... Seems to me that Squaresoft is/was a sellout to Sony and left Nintendo high and dry.

If a home video game console only has a few good RPG's and one-on-one fighting games, then it's automatically garbage! Didn't you know that?

Just kidding.

If you're a huge RPG fan and dislike every other genre, then the Nintendo 64 is definitely not for you. There are only a few N64 games listed as RPGs:

Aidyn Chronicles: The First Mage - bland
Harvest Moon 64 - great
Hybrid Heaven - decent
Ogre Battle 64: Person of Lordly Caliber - great
Paper Mario - great
Quest 64 - bland

I've never been a die-hard fan of RPGs or fighting games, so to me, the N64 is great. I thoroughly enjoyed games like Super Mario 64, Star Fox 64, 1080 Snowboarding, Goemon's Great Adventure, Rayman 2, Space Station Silicon Valley, etc., all of which feature graphics that still hold up nicely today.


Graphics wise, I'd give it to the n64. I liked the smoothed and blurred out look that made the polys look a little less rough.

I agree. When my friends and I played Super Mario 64 and Pilotwings 64 for the first time in late 1996, we were blown away. We were used to 3D graphics on the SNES, Saturn, and PlayStation and couldn't believe that the N64's graphics weren't pixellating. "Why aren't the textures pixellating? How is that possible? This is crazy and awesome!"

No matter how close we got to the textures and no matter how close we zoomed in on objects, they just wouldn't pixellate. After playing games on other consoles, we couldn't understand it. "Graphics are supposed to pixellate when we zoom in on them! That's just how it is. What's going on here??" We were completely amazed and didn't think that was even possible, especially not in real-time on a $200 home game console.

Of course, some people say they couldn't get used to the "blurry" look of N64 games, but to me, once I discovered the beauty of anti-aliasing and texture filtering, I couldn't get used to going back to twitchy, pixellated PlayStation graphics.

Another cool feature: Thanks to built-in perspective correction, the floors and walls in N64 games never looked like they were undulating and pulsating. For example, when my friends played Silent Hill on the PlayStation, they thought it looked good, but I was distracted by the constantly-twitching floors.

Also, developers were using more sophisticated techniques on the N64...again, things like layered-textures, motion blur, light trails, heat distortion, real-time shadows, reflections, visible breath in cold weather, advanced lighting, etc. Games like Ocarina of Time, Rayman 2, Donkey Kong 64, Conker's Bad Fur Day, All-Star Baseball, and NFL Quarterback Club looked jaw-droppingly amazing several years ago...far better than anything that was being done on the PlayStation or Saturn at the time.

Again, compare Triple Play 2000 on the PlayStation to All-Star Baseball on the N64 side-by-side. There's absolutely no comparison. Triple Play looks like a mess today, while the anti-aliased, high resolution All-Star Baseball still looks good eight years later.

Besides, if the PlayStation genuinely featured graphics that were vastly superior to the N64, then why did Sony include a texture filtering option for playing old PlayStation games on the PlayStation 2 and 3? Sony fans claimed PlayStation graphics were great the way they were, so why did Sony feel the need to implement a texture filtering option? Do Sony fans think that option makes the old games look blurry?


Back on topic: I think the advanced features of the N64 help make the graphics in a lot of the games still hold up today. The textures might not be crisp and high-res by today's standards, but anti-aliasing, texture filtering, and perspective correction were a huge step in the evolution of real-time 3D graphics.

[Aussie2B]

Calling the N64 "overrated" has to be the biggest misuse of that word I've seen in some time. Anyone who has been hanging out on game forums/sites or even just encountering gamers in the real world for some time would know that the N64, as a system (we're not talking specific games here), gets far more hate than love. Heck, I've been online talking about games since the N64 was new, and even back then when I was on Nintendo's official forums, there were tons of gamers who were otherwise diehard Nintendo fans that HATED the system.

My guess is that the fervent haters can't even tolerate witnessing a small minority that DOES look fondly back on the system.

[tom]

The truth, I don't dislike any console (really), just now as of today I am in the middle of playing Perfect Dark, due to the fact that it won 1st place in Retro Gamer shooter section (I know....still). Excellent game, I enjoy it immensely.

Other games I love on N64: Beetle Adventure Racing, Wetrix, Blast Corps, Virtual Chess, Space Station Silicon Valley, Glover, Conker's Bad Fur Day, Yoshi, and not forget: Tigger's Honey Hunt. And plenty more for sure.
Actually at the moment I placed bids on ebay for numerous N64 titles, as they are also cheap going compared to Game Cube.

[Berserker]

The truth, I don't dislike any console (really), just now as of today I am in the middle of playing Perfect Dark, due to the fact that it won 1st place in Retro Gamer shooter section (I know....still). Excellent game, I enjoy it immensely.

Other games I love on N64: Beetle Adventure Racing, Wetrix, Blast Corps, Virtual Chess, Space Station Silicon Valley, Glover, Conker's Bad Fur Day, Yoshi, and not forget: Tigger's Honey Hunt. And plenty more for sure.
Actually at the moment I placed bids on ebay for numerous N64 titles, as they are also cheap going compared to Game Cube.

Right on tom, that's the right way to look at things, IMO. All of this other stuff is just silly.

[ReaXan]

Their must be some kind of control box in our brains that are like "I am not use to this type of resolution anymore".

I mean if you go from playing Halo 3 to Syphon Filter your definately going to to bothered by it. I know I was

[FrakAttack]

Time has a way of sorting out the flashy bimbos from your true loves. :kiss:

[ReaXan]

Time has a way of sorting out the flashy bimbos from your true loves. :kiss:


This thread should now be closed. Can't get any better than that

[Ed Oscuro]

Heck, I've been online talking about games since the N64 was new, and even back then when I was on Nintendo's official forums, there were tons of gamers who were otherwise diehard Nintendo fans that HATED the system.
Explains a lot of what went wrong with the system, doesn't it? Forum types were looking for selling points to talk about on their forums, and missed the fact that the system was still pretty good.

Heck, I remember guys talking about the PS2/Xbox/GameCube before their launches, and people had already pretty much discounted the GC. The ill will from the N64 days (and the diseased/irrational "kiddie system" mindset) continued to haunt that next system. Of course, with Nintendo's latest system, I dunno...I wouldn't call it a kiddie (now the term is "non-gamer") system, but I understand why people would think that.