Meet the SNID-R-CADE [Archive] - Retrogaming Roundtable

Sniderman

04-21-2008, 06:28 AM

Hey gang,

OK, I have MAME running on my "primary" computer here at home. Works Hunky-dorey with no problems. Here are the stats on that system:

Compaq running Windows XP
AMD Sempron Processor
1.81 GHz
448 MB of RAM

Now then, I inherited an older system that I had planned to use for a MAME system. All of the comp's stats looked to hit the minimums needed for MAME emulation, but all of the games are running at half-speed (take the normal framerate, devide in half, that's where it sits) with the typical "skippy choppy" sound associated with an overtaxed processor. The games I'm running are older releases (Pac-Man, Donkey Kong) so I'm not trying to run Virtua Fighter or anything... Here are the older computer's stats:

Dell running Windows 98
Pentium III processor
730-ish MHz (best as I can tell when running a clocking program...)
128 MB of RAM

Now, I realize that "MAME minimum requirements" are a tough set to nail down as all ROMs run at different speeds, all computers are different, how do you have frame skipping/other MAME settings set, etc. But according to what little I've researched, a Pentium III processor is more than enough to run MAME. The computer was stripped down to it's base, so Windows and MAME are the ONLY programs on it, so there are no hidden programs, spyware, malware, etc.

Ergo, what could be causing the slowdown? Would increasing the RAM help speed things up? Or is a Pentium III just not gonna cut it here? Any quick fixes to get this up to speed would be grand. And increasing the Frameskip to 11 ain't exactly an option... ;)

Thanks gang!

Gapporin

04-21-2008, 09:30 AM

I don't know if this is a viable option for you or not, but if all you want to run are the "classics", you might want to downgrade to an earlier version of MAME (say around .70). With every new release, speed gets sacrificed in order to include more games/more accurate emulation/etc., and this affects all games. A version released around 2-3 years ago might have a general speed increase across the board more than the latest version of MAME would. And as far as the "classics" go, I don't think there's been any drastic changes done to them for awhile now (though I could be wrong).

NE146

04-21-2008, 11:10 AM

That RAM is pretty friggin small so that's what I'd upgrade if you could. But aside from that, the computer should be fine for the most part.

Barring that, I dont know if you've done this, but the first thing I would do with that computer is friggin wipe it out completely and install the OS from scratch right off the bat. Especially if you're looking at making it just a Mame machine.. wiping it out completely and having a fresh OS with nothing on there would probably make a difference.

jb143

04-21-2008, 12:11 PM

I have mame running fine on a 233MHZ machine. The only difference is the games you can run. My main mame computer is only slightly faster than yours (933MHz) and it runs all but a few of the more demanding games perfectly. I also maxed out the ram and installed a better graphics card so that might help a little.

Are you using the windows or colsole version of Mame? I think the windows version is more of a system hog. The console version has a built in GIU now. I know the command prompt was a turn off for a lot of people.

InsaneDavid

04-21-2008, 12:42 PM

You may want to use an older version of MAME. On my desktop (900MHz) I can't run the latest builds at all so I normally run v0.76. Heck, my Pole Position MAME conversion has a 350MHz PII, 128MB RAM in it and it runs fine - of course it's running MAME v0.56.

Sniderman

04-21-2008, 01:00 PM

Thanks gang. I'll grab an extra RAM stick on the way home (system only has space for two) and I'll bump it up by at least two times if not more. If that doesn't work, I'll use an earlier MAME build (currently running the most recent build with a Windows GUI). We'll see what happens then.

NE146

04-21-2008, 02:28 PM

Sniderman

04-21-2008, 07:38 PM

What will happen then is you wipe that thing out and start it fresh if you haven't already :p

Dagnabbit, I told ya it's got nothing but Windows and MAME on it. It was stripped to the bone, then a fresh version of Win98 was installed. Nothing else lurks on the hard drive. Clean as a whistle.

Anyway, I popped the sole memory stick out and was chagrinned to find it was SDRAM. You don't just walk into Best Buy and pick it up. Sure, Circuit City had one 258 MB stick - for $79.99. :yipes: Ended up at a local computer thrift/salvage/"repair" shop and told 'em I was looking for a chunk of SDRAM. Guy tossed me a 128 MB stick for no charge. "Can't use 'em myself, and a new one's gonna cost you a mint. Just take this used one. If it works, it's yours. If not, no sweat."

Nice guy.

Anyway, got home and installed it. Works fine. I'm now at 258 MB....And MAME is only slightly faster. I'll try an older version now and see if that helps at all. If not, I guess I'll try getting more SDRAM off ebay or something. Kind of at a loss here...

NE146

04-21-2008, 09:12 PM

ok then.. I guess the question needs to be asked, what version of mame are you running. Any of the "custom" builds of Mame32, etc.? Sometimes the differences in versions can be pretty huge

Sniderman

04-21-2008, 10:57 PM

InsaneDavid

04-22-2008, 12:27 AM

However, I need a simple front-end program as typing in everything is for the birds. But I'm afraid of bogging everything down again.

GameLauncher (http://www.dribin.org/dave/game_launcher/) is what I use on my desktop system. It takes a little while to get used to how it works and to get it set up how you like but after that adding / removing games is as easy as adding / removing roms to your MAME roms folder and running a mamescan.exe file that comes with GameLauncher.

Just for the record I've been able to run versions of MAME32 up to v0.95 for the MAME League competitions here without any problems. Of course most of those were classic era games. I can run pretty much everything I want to play under standard command line MAME v0.76 including sprite intensive shooters.

jb143

04-22-2008, 10:34 AM

The newest windows console(not DOS but it looks like it) release of MAME has a built in GUI...so you don't need to use the command prompt. Just double click MAME and it shows a list of your games.

Also...you shouldn't have to "dumb down" your version of mame. I'm pretty sure that the console versions are updated much more frequently.

NE146

04-22-2008, 01:54 PM

Well I *was* (operative word) running MAME32. Windows based and menu-driven. Very easy to use, but that was what was bogging me down. I took InsaneDavid's suggestion and downgraded to .076. Took me a while to remember how to use the MS-DOS prompt, but once I got going, I had MAME working. SUCCESS! The games I have are running fast with full sound and no slow down.

However, I need a simple front-end program as typing in everything is for the birds. But I'm afraid of bogging everything down again.

So, on the plus side, I seem to have it working. On the minus side, I miss the point and click simplicity...

Well again you *might* still be able to use Mame32 so that's why I was wondering what version you were running. Did you ever figure that out?

In my experience there was very often a pretty large difference in performance w/ mame32 depending on what build it was. Some ran pretty slow and the games suffered, while others launched games lightning quick and played them fine. Did you have the latest and greatest mame32 (I forget which it is.. either 0.124u1, or 0.124u2, or 0.124u3.. who the heck knows. But you really are steppng back in time with .076 :p

But I guess if you're happy you're happy :)

Sniderman

04-22-2008, 01:59 PM

Well again you *might* still be able to use Mame32 so that's why I was wondering what version you were running. Did you ever figure that out?You know, I never checked to see the version running underneath MAME 32, so I have no idea...

In my experience there was very often a pretty large difference in performance w/ mame32 depending on what build it was. Some ran pretty slow and the games suffered, while others launched games lightning quick and played them fine. Did you have the latest and greatest mame32 (I forget which it is.. either 0.124u1, or 0.124u2, or 0.124u3.. who the heck knows. But you really are steppng back in time with .076 :p True, but at least I know that 1:1 speed is possible with the hardware I have. Now it's a matter of coming forward until I find the set-up I like with the bells and whistles I prefer. So somewhere between .076 and MAME 32 lies perfection. ;)

NE146

04-22-2008, 06:50 PM

You know, I never checked to see the version running underneath MAME 32, so I have no idea...

Just launch it, then look at the title bar.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v48/b2stoys/mame32.gif

Only reason I'm pushing this is most of the classics run absolutely fine in mame32 on on my 600 mhz Dell pc w/ XP on it. Yes 1:1 speed with no hiccups. Granted it has about 4x the ram, but still. :)

rxd

04-30-2008, 08:35 AM

Not sure if you ever fixed this problem you're having but if you didn't I had this exact same problem and it took me quite a while to figure out what the issue was. I'm around 90% sure your issue is the same one I had, and it's that MAME, MAME32, etc., default to using Direct3D. Using that on a computer without a good video accelerator is just going to kill performance, no matter how much ram you have, even if you have a decent cpu. Change the video setting from Direct3D to DirectDraw and I'm virtually certain your problem will disappear...

Sniderman

04-30-2008, 09:09 AM

Well, the problem is 95% gone by now. Turns out that any of the recent releases of MAME with the built-in GUI would sap my resources to a crawl. But when running .76 in DOS with an outside front-end, works quick as a charm. I have 512K coming in the mail, and we'll see if that bit of memory bump will allow me to use one of the newer MAMEs without losing any speed. But I've got it working well now, so if it doesn't work, at least I'm where I wanted to be anyway.

My newest hiccup is that I cannot get a controller to work through either of the USB ports. The controller's got power (little light on it lights up), but the drivers are missing, misdirected, corrupted, or something. I really haven't had time to troubleshoot, but I'm getting device errors when I try to install and/or initialize 'em.

Flack

04-30-2008, 08:56 PM

DOS doesn't see USB devices natively. What controller are you running? There are probably drivers out there for it.

InsaneDavid

05-01-2008, 02:56 AM

DOS doesn't see USB devices natively. What controller are you running? There are probably drivers out there for it.

Yeah, there's no reason to run DMAME. Once DOS MAME became a separate special build and eventually was discontinued (if I remember right) there was no reason to use it if you hardware was of decent spec. Regular old Windows command line MAME (pre built in GUI) will support all your USB devices. My MAME v0.76 setup uses regular command line MAME along with GameLauncher and I use a PS Family to USB converter with it, no problems at all.

I have to run DMAME on the Pole Position cabinet since the computer is much slower and everything with the exception of video is on the motherboard. That and I like being able to just throw the power switch without shutting anything down, since there are no extra external controls outside the wheel, shifter and pedal to do such with.

Sniderman

05-01-2008, 06:31 AM

Well, if I run MAME through MAME32 (Or later MAMEUI), I have to frameskip to 6/10 to get a 100% run. My current way runs 10/10 allatime.

Regardless, I'm now working through the infamous "NTKERN.VXD" error to try to get the computer to recoginise the USB port. And that's just one error. The other error I get when I try to setup mew hardware tells me the device manager is full and I must remove somethin' before I bring in something. So conflicts ahoy!

skaar

05-09-2008, 01:11 AM

Your video drivers are likely not installed or outdated. If it is running as a VGA adapter or something similar video will be slow as hell.

Sniderman

05-09-2008, 08:12 AM

Well the computer I have for it is an inherited, limp along jobber, so I'm making do as well as I can. I have MAME running at full speed with the ExtraMAME GUI interface, so I'm happy there. However, the USB and serial ports have so much corruption I've given up getting them recognized and working. So a keyboard hack for the controls is in progress.

This won't be pretty; it won't be the fastest; and it won't be the best when it comes to a controller system. But if I get it working the way I want, it will have cost me less than $75 for a fully realized MAME cab of my own. And it's also been a learning experience...so when I build my NEXT one....

:band:

Lerxstnj

05-10-2008, 10:27 AM

Yeah, there's no reason to run DMAME. Once DOS MAME became a separate special build and eventually was discontinued (if I remember right) there was no reason to use it if you hardware was of decent spec. Regular old Windows command line MAME (pre built in GUI) will support all your USB devices. My MAME v0.76 setup uses regular command line MAME along with GameLauncher and I use a PS Family to USB converter with it, no problems at all.

I don't have Windows on the PC that I use DMAME. Works good, but I boot to just one game so I don't have to type anything. Still have no sound yet though.

I have to run DMAME on the Pole Position cabinet since the computer is much slower and everything with the exception of video is on the motherboard. That and I like being able to just throw the power switch without shutting anything down, since there are no extra external controls outside the wheel, shifter and pedal to do such with.

Did you have to add an old Sound Blaster type sound card or did you find a way to use the on-board sound hardware with DMAME?

Sniderman

06-16-2008, 01:21 PM

In the light, you can better see the "bezel" I installed. There was no light initially, so I had to install a small florescent fixure for the signage.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c151/gameagain/machine/000_0771.jpg
Running DK. You can see the simple control panel layout (one joystick, five buttons). The yellow button under the 1-2 player buttons is the coin-in, and the green button is the Escape back to menu. And I installed a trackball mouse to assist with menu selection.
http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c151/gameagain/machine/000_0777.jpg
Looks nifty in the dark:
http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c151/gameagain/machine/000_0772.jpg
I'm going to trim the machine in red (so it's not just a big black box) as well as adding some sideart and bezel art.

NoahsMyBro

06-16-2008, 04:03 PM

Very, very nice. What's the background image in that last picture?

jb143

06-16-2008, 04:33 PM

Very, very nice. What's the background image in that last picture?

It looks a lot like the 80's arcade layout for mamewah from Screenshot Archive. Where'd you get the image if you don't mind my asking? I've had a lot of people wanting me to set their cab with that layout but the graphic has additional stuff that's in the way...The instructions box for instance.

Nice cabinet by the way...

http://www.geocities.com/jeremy_burk/mame/80sarcade.jpg

Pantechnicon

06-16-2008, 06:07 PM

Very nice work, Sniderman. I like how the coin box is off-center of the base. That's a unique look. I also like how it fits into the snugly into the wallspace like that. I have a similar setup (http://videogamecollectors.com/gallery/The_Pantechnicon/IMG_0069) with my own MAME cab.

Frankie_Says_Relax

06-16-2008, 06:23 PM

Haha, nice job there.

It would go nicely next to a cigarette machine and a jukebox. (And while I neither smoke nor drink ... I mean that as an era-specific arcade cabinet compliment)

As far as newer versions of MAME causing slowdown on a lot of the classics : while I don't have an answer WHY, I can attest to the fact that on my MAME cabinet, which also has a Pentium 3 in it, the newer games (Street Fighter Era) run better on the newer MAME builds, while the older games (Donkey Kong Era) run better on older MAME builds.

I just keep all my ROMS in one universal directory, and have about 5 versions of MAME (from old to the latest) running/selectable.

I'm also looking to do some major RAM upgrades, and I hope that if I max out my ram (say 2 - 3 Gigs) that the classics will run smoother in the newer MAME builds.

kingpong

06-16-2008, 06:40 PM

RAM shouldn't make a difference. As one of the devs reinforced recently, a few large NeoGeo games will struggle, but everything else is fine with 1GB.

As for why the older games get slower, generally it is because the emulation gets better, and more correct emulation takes more horsepower. Every now and then there are bigger changes that hurt the performance of older games in favor of moving the optimization point (for lack of a better term) to more modern games that need the extra help. The removal of 8 bit per pixel graphics a number of years ago was such a case, simplifying the code and improving performance on the now baseline 16 bit stuff. But those cases are few and far between, and nearly all performance hits are just side effects of improved accuracy.

Sniderman

06-16-2008, 07:45 PM

Very, very nice. What's the background image in that last picture?

As I recall, I think I grabbed it from Cinemarcade. I just wanted a nice general arcade pic, and I thought it looked cool.

Here's a link to the pic:
http://www.cinemarcade.com/images/Desktops/arcade84.jpg

Very nice work, Sniderman. I like how the coin box is off-center of the base. That's a unique look. I also like how it fits into the snugly into the wallspace like that. I have a similar setup with my own MAME cab.Thanks. It's not bad for "built on the cheap." The coinbox is offcenter because the speaker was installed to the left of the coin mech (you can just make out the grill in one of the photos). Anyway, I ended up installing the speakers in the same place, leaving plenty of room for the coin door to become the computer access hatch (when needed). And the area it fits into? Well, my rec room had a small kitchenette installed a long time ago. That cubby hole is where a fridge once sat. Power right there and instant recessed area.

:)

Frankie_Says_Relax

06-17-2008, 12:21 PM

RAM shouldn't make a difference. As one of the devs reinforced recently, a few large NeoGeo games will struggle, but everything else is fine with 1GB...

Right. Unfortunately the PC in my MAME cabinet currently only has 256Mb of Ram ... so whether it be 1 or 3 Gigs of ram, I know I need it in general for the modern games.

*EDIT* I dropped extra RAM in my system yesterday, noticeable improvement on the latest version of MAME UI for Street Fighter III 3rd Strike, not very much improvement on Donkey Kong unless I dropped the audio sampling.

I think the death of the classic games on the newer versions of MAME32/UI is the "integrated" audio samples that weren't present in older versions ... the games ran SO much better (and sounded better) with the WAV sample archive folder.

dave2236

06-17-2008, 07:24 PM

Tim, if you need some artwork printed let me know. My brother and I print arcade artwork and restore arcade machines as a full time job now.

Here are some links for 2 of the custom projects we did.

http://forums.klov.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=770190&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1

http://forums.klov.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB3&Number=793104&Searchpage=3&Main=793104&Words=billybob+custom&topic=&Search=true#Post793104

Sniderman

06-25-2008, 08:42 PM

Well, I trimmed it in red and - gosh - I think I'm just gonna stop messing with it. Was planning on some sideart and bezel art, but I kind of like it the way it is now.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c151/gameagain/machine/000_0801.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c151/gameagain/machine/000_0800.jpg