Hori Upscan + Older Systems = 'rainbow' colors

[LensLarque]

Hi guys ! I use to come here a lot to seek tech info on consoles, and today I've finally decided to register. :rocker:

Well, I have an issue with my Hori Upscan Converter 2 (I guess lots of people know about this cheap but cool VGA adapter).
I've got no problems using it with a PS2, but I was curious to see how other systems would look with the Hori on my LCD monitor.
I first tried with a PS1 (fat grey all region/pal-ntsc modded PAL) using an S-Video cable like this one:
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/3332/svideoah8.jpg
But here's what I got:
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/7097/photo0084ok9.jpg
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/7324/photo0085ws9.jpg
The picture is all 'rainbow' colored.
Same thing using composite with PS1 and MD (megadrive w/ 60Hz switch).

I was wondering if the problem could come from the power supply so I've tried the PS2's USB port as well as my comp's but it didn't change a thing (and I don't have a 5v AC adapter or even know the polarity of the Hori, so I stuck to USB powering).

So...I am aware that the Hori Upscan Converter was originally designed for the PS2 and Xbox, but I know it should work with other systems (read it on a metagames review for instance).
Couldn't find anything about that annoying 'rainbow' problem...X_x

Thanks in advance for your help and advices ! :puppydogeyes:

PS: my LCD is a BELINEA (maxdata) 2080 S2, you can see the full specs on this page (click 'Tech. details' at the bottom):
http://www.belinea.com/en/b_line/product_moni_tft.jsp?node=680&artnr=112009

[evildragon]

The chroma burst looks horrible! :O

Um, your not mismatching PAL/NTSC are you?

[LensLarque]

Well I guess my modded PS1 sends NTSC when playing an ntsc-j game like the one displayed (DoDonpachi).
And I guess my MD does too when I switch to 60Hz...

Or are they both sending some PAL-60Hz ? That I don't know...

[evildragon]

The PS1 I believe will switch encoding.

The Sega will NOT! Without RGB, all you'll get is a black and white image, or an image like the above actually.

If you use a 32X and switch a 50Hz system to 60Hz, you will end up with PAL-60Hz. (assuming the 32X is PAL).

This looks like it could be a problem with handling 240p though. But your MD1, yea, that won't work at all without RGB.

[LensLarque]

Well I plan to do the S-Video mod on my MD1 someday.
It might sound wierd as all my systems have RGB scart outputs but I actually move a lot and I don't always have a crt tv around. So being able to use my LCD monitor for various systems would be really convenient (yeah I should buy an XRGB2+ but I'm broke right now ^^).

Btw I own:

PAL MD1 with region & frequency switches,
PAL MD2 with region & frequency switches,
PAL MegaCD
PAL PS1 (old model) with modchip for all region compatibility,
PAL v9 PS2 with modchip for all region compatibility (old modchip but everything ok so far)
PAL Saturn with frequency switch + ST-Key v1.0
PAL GC with free-loader
...and various other systems...

For the MD testing I took the composite signal directly from the scart cable (well that was just a try, I wasn't actually expecting anything).
But I'm surprised the PS1 couldn't be displayed correctly... if other Hori Upscan users could, why not me !? ><
Bugs me...

All have RGB scart cables, and composite for PS1/2 and GC, but I only have 1 S-Video cable for my PS1/2.
(oh, and I forgot the component cable for PS2).

[evildragon]

If you plan to mod the MD1 with it's own video encoder, I don't think it'll help. It'll still output broken color.

You could just plug the consoles directly into the TV, can't you?

LCD/Plasma, and CRT HD's (which usually run in 540p or 1080i), all have upscalers built into them. They have too, otherwise the picture would be stamp sized. ;)

[LensLarque]

If you plan to mod the MD1 with it's own video encoder, I don't think it'll help. It'll still output broken color.

You could just plug the consoles directly into the TV, can't you?

LCD/Plasma, and CRT HD's (which usually run in 540p or 1080i), all have upscalers built into them. They have too, otherwise the picture would be stamp sized. ;)

Oh the S-Video would be for using my MD through the Hori, because I don't always have a TV around. But I do not own an LCD tv anyway, my only LCD display is the Belinea monitor.

If there's no way for the MD well too bad... but that would be cool for the PS1 (my PS2 is no good with PS1 games so...)

[evildragon]

Oh ok. Gotcha.

Well, I think it's a 240p problem.

And modding the MD might not help either way, because that's 240p like the PlayStation.

Test, load the PS1's BIOS up (no disc). Are the colors fine there? I ask because the PS1 BIOS is 480i.

[LensLarque]

Yes the BIOS start screen is OK, it's only when the game starts that the colors are messed up.

But how is it that other people could have correct colors with the PS1 via Hori Upscan ?

[evildragon]

No idea. Different parts used in the scaler?

A lot of new cheap scalers seem to not like 240p at all.

So, unfortounetly, it's a 240p issue as I thought.

Also, it might be possible some of those testers like Tekkan 3 or something. ;) That game runs in 480i..

[LensLarque]

Oh yes I will try some 480i PS1 game like Tekken 3 and report just to confirm. :wink 2:

What made me think it would work is what is written at the bottom of this page:
HERE (http://www.metagames-eu.com/bonus/Article272_Test-VGA-BOX-Hori-Upscan-Converter-2.php)
It's in french but here's the translation:
"All other consoles could work: PS1,PS2,XBOX,NES,SUPER NES,
Gamecube...as long as you've got the right cables."
:hmm:

Btw: any other ideas of PS1 games in 480i ?

Reporting: tested with Tekken 3 and the colors were OK
So no 240p for my hori...

But when I play PS2 240p games (that's component output directly from the PS2's back if you know how the Hori works) there's no colors problem.
Well if they are really 240p...that's what I think Espgaluda or DoDonpachi DaiOuJou are in 'TATE' mode (not TATEHOSEI)...

[evildragon]

Meh, "Could" work.. Sounds like they "could" know that it might contain different parts.

Um, I can't think of any other games off hand. But I think a "Driver" games main menu screen is 480i, but gameplay is 240p..

I don't remember which Driver though..

[LensLarque]

Well I'll try and find the guy who wrote the article and ask him how he did end-up having correct colors...

But I don't get you about the 'parts' ?
You mean my Hori could have been different from the one they used for their testing ?
The Hori is quite old but I don't think mine is different.

[evildragon]

The actual chips inside could be different.

Like how the Genesis over the time had different video encoder chips used, but all pin compatible.

You know, like AMD vs Intel. They are both X86's, but have different results.

[LensLarque]

Well I doubt Hori made lots of revisions of the Upscan Converter but who knows...

I've just posted a similar thread on the metagames forum, maybe I'll get an answer if the tester(s) is still around.

I'll let you know if I learn something ! X_x

And... something else; would one of these jrock converters be of any help ?
http://jrok.com/hardware/RGB.html
Or nothing would change ?

[evildragon]

Eh, the console still outputs 240p, so the problem will continue.

[LensLarque]

Well in the end I couldn't get an answer from the guys who published the article.
If there's a trick for getting the right colors out of a 240p S-Video signal with the Hori I guess I'll never know. :?
You must be right and the article wrong.
Think I'll just give up an think further about buying an XRGB2 or 2+.