10 years ago this month, SEGA named its then-new upcoming Katana console, Dreamcast

[airraid]

Sega's plans for what would be its final console were discovered by early 1997. Within Sega there was an internal competition between two different prototype console machines. One was the SoJ-designed 'Katana' which used a Videologic/NEC PowerVR second generation chip for graphics. The other was the SoA-designed 'Black Belt' which used a 3Dfx Voodoo2-based or 3Dfx Banshee variant for graphics.

Katana won that competition during summer 1997. The 'Black Belt' machine was rejected and the team that put it together was let go from their jobs. The Katana would be fully developed and produced as Sega's next-generation console. Final specs emerged in late 1997 or early 1998. In May 1998, Sega revealed Katana's all-important consumer name, and it was Dreamcast.

So this month amazingly, it has been 10 years.


http://www.gamespot.com/news/2463782.html



Katana to Become Dream Cast?
Rumors that claim to know the official name for Sega's next console
are burning up the Net.
By Yutaka Ohbuchi, GameSpot
Posted May 19, 1998 12:07 pm PT

TOKYO - Just two days away from the official announcement of Sega's
next machine, and the rumors have started flying about its official
name. Brace yourself....

Some people are saying that the name will be related to the word
"dream." Others are saying that the official name for the machine is
actually Dream Cast. Some are saying none of the above - and that
Dream Cast refers to the lineup of developers Sega has assembled to
develop for the new system and nothing more. The words "Dream Cast"
were apparently spotted on printed material Sega plans to distribute
at the Thursday press conference.

Whether any of this is true or not, all will be cleared up at Sega's
press conference on May 21, where it will announce the name of the
machine and hopefully more details as to the release date in Japan and
the first round of games.


http://www.gamespot.com/news/2463791.html



Sega of Japan officially announces its next system. It's good-bye
Saturn, hello Dreamcast.
By Yutaka Ohbuchi, GameSpot
Posted May 20, 1998 11:24 pm PT

TOKYO - Finally. The moment we've all...well, some of us have been
waiting for.

At a press conference on Thursday, Sega Enterprises, Ltd. officials
told an audience of reporters and editors that its next console system
will be called Dreamcast. And yes, it's official.



http://www.gamespot.com/news/2463807.html



Dreamcast Is Here... Almost
Sega announces its next system in Japan with a dream cast of
partnerships.
By Yutaka Ohbuchi, GameSpot
Posted May 21, 1998 8:24 am PT

At a press conference on Thursday in Japan, Sega announced that it
will launch its next console, called "Dreamcast," on November 20 in
Japan.

The price of the console is still to be decided. But Sega's president
Syouichirou Irimajiri mentioned that it will be between 20,000 to
30,000 yen (roughly US$150-$225) in his Dreamcast presentation, and
there will be five titles available at launch. Exactly which five
titles is still to be determined, but one can surmise that Virtua
Fighter 3, Super GT, D2, and Sega Rally 2 are likely candidates.

The new console has a built-in 33.6Kbps modem to allow access to the
Internet or network games. According to a press release issued by
Sega, it can produce three million polygons per second (courtesy of
the latest PowerVR2 graphics accelerator) with a rich 1,677 million
colors. Additionally, the new console has 64-channel ADPCM capability
(Yamaha Super Intelligent Sound Chip). The games will be stored on CD-
ROM, and the system uses a MAX 12x CD-ROM drive.

The Dreamcast's controller looks similar to Saturn's 3D controller. It
has both analog and digital pads on the left-hand side and four (blue,
red, green, and yellow) buttons on the right, with a start button in
the middle.

Most interestingly, the controller has a slot on the top and a square-
shaped "window" in the middle of it. The slot can be connected to a
PDA that will be available separately from the console.

The PDA is based on an idea similar to Sony's. It can be played alone,
or it can be connected to the system's controller for use as a 128KB
memory card. Its LCD (48x32 dot monochrome) can be seen from the
controller's square-shaped "window," so it can be utilized for
Dreamcast games like card or sports sims in which the player doesn't
want to reveal his strategy to his opponent.

It also has a calendar feature. This PDA, called Visual Memory, will
be available on July 11 in movie theaters at a price of under 2,500
yen (roughly $19). This particular PDA will have a game called
Atsumete Godzilla: Kaijuu Daizukan. The game is a tie-in to the new
Godzilla movie that just opened in the States but will open in July in
Japan. In it, you raise monsters and battle with your friends, much
like Bandai's DigiMon or Nintendo's Pokemon.

Two PDAs can also be connected to transfer data or battle monsters or
to play other games.

We'll have more on Dreamcast later today, after Sega of America's
press conference, and a detailed account of the conference in Japan.



We still get two more 10 year anniversaries to celebrate: the Japanese launch of Dreamcast on November 27, 1998 and the U.S. launch on 9/9/99.

[Brian Deuel]

Still my favorite "modern" console, and fun to write code for. She died a commercial death way too soon, but lives on in homebrew circles.

[otoko]

My collection will never be without Dreamcast. It was my first console and holds a very dear place in my heart. I got it the November the year it was released and I have never entertained the thought of getting rid of it. I'm now on my second Dreamcast but I'm still holding onto my first. I guess a futile hope it will one day live again.

It might one day...

[Poofta!]

jesus dreamcast fans are the most annoying and obnoxious fanboys ever.

every freaking year (several times actually, one for 'announced' one for 'released' one for 'died' etc) these threads come up.

its a miserable failure of a console, both hardware wise and software.
it is single handedly responsible for the fall of one of the biggest and well loved video game hardware manufacturers ever.
it is a massive disappointment to level-headed gamers everywhere, yet drives the sticky fanboys wild.

let. it. die.

[otoko]

jesus dreamcast fans are the most annoying and obnoxious fanboys ever.

every freaking year (several times actually, one for 'announced' one for 'released' one for 'died' etc) these threads come up.

its a miserable failure of a console, both hardware wise and software.
it is single handedly responsible for the fall of one of the biggest and well loved video game hardware manufacturers ever.
it is a massive disappointment to level-headed gamers everywhere, yet drives the sticky fanboys wild.

let. it. die.

You know, It's not so black as you seem to think it is. The system had its ups and downs just like any other. Just because of what happened and the fact what was released did not appeal to you does not mean it's how you see it and that's it. I'm not a Dreamcast fanboy, as I said the reason it does have a special significances to me is because it's the only reason I ever got into game collecting in the first place. Other than that, I rather like some of the games on there. I mainly play Get Grind Radio if I play anything on that system at all.

And, sure I also agree with you that we should probably concentrate on just the release date for the US and do it for every ten years like every other system. I feel it makes it much more meaningful.

Still there's fucking Fanboys and Fangirls for every system.

Don't ruin it for other people just because you feel like being an asshole.

[j_factor]

its a miserable failure of a console, both hardware wise and software.
it is single handedly responsible for the fall of one of the biggest and well loved video game hardware manufacturers ever.

Oh come on, it's a little more complex than that. Dreamcast had a larger market share in North America than Saturn ever did. The miserable failure was, at the time, the most successful launch in videogame history, as well as the fastest-selling console in history, and the #2 console on the market for much of its life. Sure, it wasn't outselling Playstation, but hey, 360 took like two years to outsell PS2 (and when DC was two years old it was already being canceled). DC was a miserable failure in Europe and Australia, but it was a legitimate success in North America.

Sega's downfall was due to a combination of factors.

[Rob2600]

its a miserable failure of a console, both hardware wise and software.

What's wrong with the Dreamcast hardware? The controllers were decent, but the console itself was actually quite good.

While I don't think it had an amazing library like some other people do, it definitely had a handful of great games.


it is single handedly responsible for the fall of one of the biggest and well loved video game hardware manufacturers ever.

No, that was the Sega CD, 32X, and Saturn. The Dreamcast was the victim of "too little, too late."

[rkotm]

jesus dreamcast fans are the most annoying and obnoxious fanboys ever.

every freaking year (several times actually, one for 'announced' one for 'released' one for 'died' etc) these threads come up.

its a miserable failure of a console, both hardware wise and software.
it is single handedly responsible for the fall of one of the biggest and well loved video game hardware manufacturers ever.
it is a massive disappointment to level-headed gamers everywhere, yet drives the sticky fanboys wild.

let. it. die.

Sega's systems had been failing before this one. It was half responsible and the other half, the PS2, everyone wanted the next Sony machine, and didnt want to burned by Sega again regardless the console. It had a lot of decent software unless you want RPGS and tons of FPSs. But yeah there are a lot of anniversary announcements.

[OldSchoolGamer]

I am no fanboy and love all consoles but I have a suggestion for you, if it bothers you so much just stay the hell out of such threads, people are free to do what they want or be a fanboy if they choose, just friggin ignore these threads and go do your own thing, if you don't give a crap about such threads I am sure the participants in them wont miss you............................

[Bratwurst]

Way to give the troll a sloppy open mouth kiss, guys.

[Haoie]

Seems just like yesterday. I remember when it was released in NZ, mid 1999. Wow.

[Brian Deuel]

Sega's systems had been failing before this one. It was half responsible and the other half, the PS2, everyone wanted the next Sony machine, and didnt want to burned by Sega again regardless the console. It had a lot of decent software unless you want RPGS and tons of FPSs. But yeah there are a lot of anniversary announcements.

The Dreamcast's failure in the marketplace was due to Sega and their piss-poor management. Nothing more, nothing less. The seeds were planted long before with the CD, 32X, Saturn, and other missteps, and those planted a bad taste in the mouth of console buyers. Not to mention, they couldn't market their way out of a paper bag.

And to our trolling friend here... it'll just get more and more obnoxious and annoying from now on!! HAVE A DREAMY DAY!!!

[Poofta!]

the 32x/scd/saturn werent the last consoles that sega made. the dreamcast was, and left the company on the brink of bankruptcy and crying in the corner.

the hardware... well it was good, but not for a console. it was too easily hacked (one of its major downfalls) and the controllers i believe ot be the worst ever.

as for software, all it had going for it was 2k sports and capcom, both of which couldve easily been done on any hardware (and were).


im sorry to rain on everyone's parade here, please go ahead and celebrate. can we do ngage next? vboy? please?
dreamcast was the wood for the coffin and the metal for the nails for sega.

/asshole out (and i do apoligize)

[NayusDante]

To this day, I feel anger toward Sega for what I saw as jumping at the chance of waving the white flag.

Dreamcast was the early fighter in the "transition" generation. That generation saw the death of traditional games-only consoles (audio CD functionality is nice, but CD players were ubiquitous by then; PS2 as a DVD player was just good timing) and the dawn of the new era. Consoles could actually do several different computeresque functions, Dreamcast being the first (mainstream) internet-enabled console. XBand and such operated over phone lines, wheras Dreamcast took the dive into the Internet Protocol. PS2 brought consoles into acceptance as home-theater components with its DVD functionality. XBox allowed music storage. GameCube would be the last games-only console.

Dreamcast jumped in front of those consoles, but I don't think it should have taken a hit for it. Since its immediate competition were the N64 and the PSX, it stood out as truly next-generation. PlayStation had the media playback and CD storage features, but its 3D was fugly and polygons looked sickly at best. N64 had very crisp and "healthy" looking 3D, though it couldn't handle large ammounts of FMV or recorded audio. Dreamcast had the strengths of both. No, it doesn't quite stand up to the GeForce 3-power of the XBox, but then again, there was a different approach to 3D at its time (polygon counts and minimalism over effects like bumpmapping; the new stuff looks like plastic).

As for games, I personally owned few. Sonic Adventure, while ridden with bad camera, almost never left my Dreamcast. Crazy Taxi was amazingly creative and fun, until I attempted to remove the old Blockbuster label (NEVER do that; buy used discs elsewhere). Other than that, I didn't play much. However, I really wish I had picked up PSO at the beginning, and gotten into more of the arcade stuff.

The accepted story is that Sega feared the PS2 and honestly believed that DC could not compete. I disagree. While PS2 had DVD and more horsepower, Dreamcast just looked nicer. There's a distinct feel to the renderer of the DC that the PS2 really lacks. Where DC looks nice and clean, PS2 games look like they could really use a pass of antialiasing. I strongly considered a PowerVR card for my PC at the time because of how much I just loved the style.

Some say piracy killed the Dreamcast. While I'm sure it hurt sales, there could have been a workaround. Instead of shutting down the network servers, Sega should have pushed online for every game, much like M$ did with XBL. Even if games lack multiplayer, add more single-player content accessible online, such as in-game strategy guides and high scores. If every game had online incentives, they could have instituted CD key checks, stamping out piracy for all but those who only played offline. Making the ethernet adaptor so limited didn't help. We now know that Sega isn't against online-only titles, just look at PSO-XBox.

Sadly, Sega made all the wrong moves. One particular move makes me very curious, which is the choice of graphics. While I loved the PowerVR look, 3DFX was a better known company to most gamers. Those cards hold up amazingly well, with the community finding ways to run modern games on them years later. Glide was a nice API that gave solid performance. Since the Quake engine had been optimized for Glide, I suspect that Half-Life would have performed better and possibly seen commercial release.

So I forever view Dreamcast as the console that should have, but wasn't allowed. Sega's white flag was like puting the child prodigy in special ed: had they bumped him a grade, he would have performed on-level, just wouldn't have gotten the girls.

Since Dreamcast was the early entry in the last generation, there's still a glint of hope for Sega THIS generation. They're rumored to be nearly bankrupt, and that one big failure could shut them for good. Since their software doesn't seem to be hitting the mark, they might stand a better chance with hardware. Heck, a Sega-licensed Wii variant would be nice.

An arcade/retro/niche-centered system would be a nice relief from the mindless shooters and shovelware of this generation. Someone needs to stand up to the market and offer something different from the "hardcore" and the "casual" crap that keeps getting shoved down our throats. I can't see the Big Three doing it...

...but Sega...

I have a Dreamcast, and one day, this console will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: Sega Does what Ninten WON'T

[outofkeyslightly]

Now I love my Genesis, in a physical way. I could tell you what a good 32X game is. I could even tell you why the Saturn was technically superior to the Playstation. And I love my Dreamcast too. I especially love MvC2, but who's counting. I kind of agree with Dante too about the dc's graphics. I would say that the PS2 had the worst anti-aliasing of any console in the last gen. But like any good Sega fan, I could also tell you where Sega went wrong every single step of the way. Still though, what's all this then with the trolling? I agree celebrating the birthday of a console's coming out ceremony is kinda silly. It just makes me feel old, personally. But you are sir are out of line. Nobody in the thread had even tried to get to second base with the white lady before you were you hating. J'accuse!

[otoko]

Nobody in the thread had even tried to get to second base with the white lady before you were you hating. J'accuse!


You, sir, made me "lol".

[Melf]

the 32x/scd/saturn werent the last consoles that sega made. the dreamcast was, and left the company on the brink of bankruptcy and crying in the corner.

Not true. The Saturn left Sega without the cash it needed to really push the Dreamcast, which is why the latter's massive launch and subsequent success didn't benefit the company as a hardware manufacturer. Sega stumbled so many times with the Saturn (and the 32X before that) that by the time it released the DC, it had squandered the trust and good will of consumers, retailers, and developers. Remember Kay-Bee snubbing the Saturn? EA announcing there would be no Madden on DC?

The DC was Sega's last shot at becoming solvent again after several financial disasters in a row. Toshiyasu Morita, one of the technical directors at Sega told me (http://www.sega-16.com/feature_page.php?id=323&title=Interview:%20Toshiyasu%20Morita) that the company had been in trouble and considering leaving hardware for almost five years before the DC launched.


It really wasn't a great shock to see Sega giving up hardware. Internally, many of us had been talking about this for at least three or four years before the event happened.

The DC was Sega's last gasp, and had the company not been in such dire financial straits, it could have supported it as needed and done quite well.

[otaku]

my first console was a n64 then I met a friend with a dreamcast and fell in love my parents wouldn't buy me my own DC so instead I got a psone which I regularly traded for his DC, played the hell out of it. Finally bought my own DC this year brand new in box (not anymore) with about 200 games loving it!

[nat]

The Dreamcast was such a great console, as a matter of fact, it was the one great console of the last generation. (I would give the Wii that honor this gen...) It was the one that stood above the rest as innovative and did something new. Something different. Different = good. It also ended up paying much homage to what came before in all the 2D ports (both official and independent). And while I'm a much bigger fan of 2D games over 3D, it was the first console that actually had 3D graphics you could look at without wincing. It ranks very highly among my favorite consoles of all time. There's no question it died commercially prematurely, but look at all the games we got out of it. Not to mention one of the most active independent & homebrew scenes around...

[Rob2600]

Dreamcast jumped in front of those consoles, but I don't think it should have taken a hit for it. Since its immediate competition were the N64 and the PSX, it stood out as truly next-generation. PlayStation had the media playback and CD storage features, but its 3D was fugly and polygons looked sickly at best. N64 had very crisp and "healthy" looking 3D, though it couldn't handle large ammounts of FMV or recorded audio. Dreamcast had the strengths of both.

That's an excellent summary of the three consoles.


as for software, all it had going for it was 2k sports and capcom


As for games, I personally owned few. Sonic Adventure, while ridden with bad camera, almost never left my Dreamcast. Crazy Taxi was amazingly creative and fun, until I attempted to remove the old Blockbuster label (NEVER do that; buy used discs elsewhere). Other than that, I didn't play much.

Dreamcast games my friends and I enjoyed:

18-Wheeler American Pro Trucker
Bust-a-Move 4
Chicken Run
Dead or Alive 2
Jet Grind Radio
MDK 2
Rayman 2: The Great Escape
Re-Volt
Seaman
Sega Bass Fishing
Space Channel 5
Toy Commander
Virtua Tennis
Worms Armageddon
Zombie Revenge

I think there was a pretty good selection.


It had a lot of decent software unless you want RPGS and tons of FPSs.

Dreamcast first-person shooters:

Quake III: Arena
Soldier of Fortune
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Rogue Spear
Unreal Tournament

What more could a first-person shooter fan want in 1999-2000?


An arcade/retro/niche-centered system would be a nice relief from the mindless shooters and shovelware of this generation. Someone needs to stand up to the market and offer something different from the "hardcore" and the "casual" crap that keeps getting shoved down our throats. I can't see the Big Three doing it...

I think Nintendo is doing it with the Wii. What other home console right now offers such a huge variety of fun games? There's House of the Dead 2 & 3 Return, Trauma Center, Mercury Meltdown Revolution, Zack & Wiki, No More Heroes, Wii Fit, Endless Ocean, Super Mario Galaxy, Mario Strikers Charged, Karaoke Revolution, Wii Sports, Metroid Prime 3, etc.

The Wii isn't just about hardcore games or casual games or retro-style games or fitness games...it's about all of the above! Another plus is that many highly-rated games debut for only $20 or $30.

Yes, there's a lot of shovelware, but as I've pointed out before, there were tons of shovelware for the Atari 2600, NES, Genesis, SNES, PlayStation, and every other successful console ever released. Buy the good games and don't buy the shovelware. Problem solved!


The Dreamcast was such a great console, as a matter of fact, it was the one great console of the last generation. (I would give the Wii that honor this gen...)

See! :)

[alexkidd2000]

Man I drove 5 hours to get my Dreamcast. Drove 5 more hours to get home. Hooked it up and... it was BROKE!! Sucked soooooo bad. Took me 2 weeks before I could get it exchanged but that unit is still working like a dream.....

[j_factor]

The accepted story is that Sega feared the PS2 and honestly believed that DC could not compete.

I think Sega feared the Xbox, actually. They knew Microsoft had the money and the muscle to make their system a success, especially in North America, which is where the Dreamcast was most popular. Up until then, there had never been more than two consoles with a healthy market share at one time. Perhaps the wisdom was, maybe there's room for three, but there ain't room for four. And which would be the #4 that gets pushed out? Sony had all the hype, Microsoft had all the money, and Nintendo had the ironclad business model. That would leave Sega out in the cold.

[Viraneth]

I believe the DC was way ahead of its time. If they did try to make a Dreamcast 2 or at least a spiritual successor, it would be insanely successful.

[Poofta!]

you'll never convince me. as someone who had it on launch day, i was saying good ridance to bad garbage all throughout its failing life cycle. selling hardware means diddly squat when no one is buying hte software. which the dc, had none of. i saw some 30 games mentioned above, most of which i found slightly above mediocre, and certainly not worth owning the system for. fps lineup? laughable. rpg? nonexistant. arcade gun games? like 5. shmups? ditto.

unless you were heavily into fighting games (even still there were barely a handful) or a crazy sports fan the console brought nothing.

when i see lines such as 'n64 was my first console' (another terrible mess) i begin to see who, and why, drove this POS of a home system.

the best example of the uselessness of this console is how everything it had was ported over to the ps2-xbox-gc generation flawlessly. (sure some systems handled certain games better than others, but nevertheless, gc/xbox did everything the dc thought it was awesome for).

as of today, there is no reason to own this thing (and trust me, i have two). i cant even write 10 games that are worth exclusively hooking this up for (and i have a cd case filled with the entire catalog of the dc).

[rkotm]

you'll never convince me. as someone who had it on launch day, i was saying good ridance to bad garbage all throughout its failing life cycle. selling hardware means diddly squat when no one is buying hte software. which the dc, had none of. i saw some 30 games mentioned above, most of which i found slightly above mediocre, and certainly not worth owning the system for. fps lineup? laughable. rpg? nonexistant. arcade gun games? like 5. shmups? ditto.

unless you were heavily into fighting games (even still there were barely a handful) or a crazy sports fan the console brought nothing.

when i see lines such as 'n64 was my first console' (another terrible mess) i begin to see who, and why, drove this POS of a home system.

the best example of the uselessness of this console is how everything it had was ported over to the ps2-xbox-gc generation flawlessly. (sure some systems handled certain games better than others, but nevertheless, gc/xbox did everything the dc thought it was awesome for).

as of today, there is no reason to own this thing (and trust me, i have two). i cant even write 10 games that are worth exclusively hooking this up for (and i have a cd case filled with the entire catalog of the dc).

then why do you have two and all of the DC games then? dont tell me they were given to you or theyre ISO Cds. But hey, whatever you think/dont like.

[Sweater Fish Deluxe]

Heh, Poofta!, you crack me up. You didn't used to go by the name Omarichu, by any chance, did you? And post a lot to Usenet back in the day? As has been pointed out to you many times before (in every topic here that mentions the Dreamcast, it seems), you're entitled to your opinion, but just be aware that you're in the minority when it comes to this particular opinion. And what a tiny minority it is! Almost every gamer, then or now, recognizes that the Dreamcast is a solid piece of hardware with a great lineup of games.

The Dreamcast is indeed great. My favorite console, by far. In fact, it's the only console I even keep hooked up any more. It was really the last system to rely heavily on arcade style games and gameplay concepts. From traditional arcade genres like shooters and fighters to more original 3D games that still used simple and addictive gameplay formulas. It was all I ever wanted. If I hadn't been there and seen it myself, I would never believe that the Dreamcast only lasted 2 years and was considered by many to be a failure. The library sure doesn't show any signs of that.


...word is bondage...

[Dr. Dib]

I had an interesting history with the Dreamcast myself. I remember being in Elementary school back when it came out and being amazed by it. I can see in my mind an article in a newsletter we were given in school with a picture of Sonic Adventure.

At the time though, I was a Nintendo boy and a Sonic fan. For some reason I never asked for any SEGA console besides a GameGear that I would receive. Nevertheless, I would have to have asked my brother's to share the gift with me. Anyway, a few of my brother's good friends had the Dreamcast and I remembered always trying to play it when they brought it over. All my friends were still head over heels for the N64, including me, so none of them had a Dreamcast. I did have one friend, but I believe her's broke.

Anyway, when the Dreamcast failed I remembered going to Circuit City and contemplating purchasing a Dreamcast. I had spent all my money on GBA games though (pretty much when I stopped saving up money) and never got around to it. I did purchase one about three years later, but I never got too many games for it. Mainly because the good games are pretty hard to find now. Well at least I have a hard time finding the ones I want.

[Zora Mystery]

when i see lines such as 'n64 was my first console' (another terrible mess)


How was the N64 a terrible mess? Is it because Nintendo got it stuck on cartridges after the whole CD fiasco? Because I personally love most of the games on it. It must not have done too bad, because Nintendo is still in the console business.

I never played the Dreamcast, but I heard it was a great console by many people.

[NayusDante]

I think that the saturated market of sports and fighters may have been a bigger factor than most people think. I personally didn't know where to begin with fighters and the like, so I never got into them until recently. Had there been more traditional action and adventure titles pushed for DC, they might have built a stronger userbase.

I was half asleep when I wrote my rant last night, and I forgot an important point that I wanted to make: 3DFX could have lived. Had they gotten the contract for a mass-produced game console, they might not have fallen so hard. This possibility greatly saddens me, because I was a big 3DFX fan. In that era before "plastic people shaders," they delivered fast and high-quality textured polygon rendering, which is what 3D gaming should be. Developers are spoiled with all these fancy effects, resulting in meh visuals. I don't remember as much tearing or framerate issues back in the DirectX 6-7 era...

[rkotm]

heres what the Saturn and Dreamcast are doing nowadays.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6R1Hhkxaf8c

[Gentlegamer]

Sega Does what Ninten WON'TFail as a console maker?

[Push Upstairs]

you'll never convince me. as someone who had it on launch day, i was saying good ridance to bad garbage all throughout its failing life cycle. selling hardware means diddly squat when no one is buying hte software. which the dc, had none of. i saw some 30 games mentioned above, most of which i found slightly above mediocre, and certainly not worth owning the system for. fps lineup? laughable. rpg? nonexistant. arcade gun games? like 5. shmups? ditto.

unless you were heavily into fighting games (even still there were barely a handful) or a crazy sports fan the console brought nothing.

when i see lines such as 'n64 was my first console' (another terrible mess) i begin to see who, and why, drove this POS of a home system.

the best example of the uselessness of this console is how everything it had was ported over to the ps2-xbox-gc generation flawlessly. (sure some systems handled certain games better than others, but nevertheless, gc/xbox did everything the dc thought it was awesome for).

as of today, there is no reason to own this thing (and trust me, i have two). i cant even write 10 games that are worth exclusively hooking this up for (and i have a cd case filled with the entire catalog of the dc).

I am a Sega fan, I own a Genesis, Sega CD, Saturn and a DC. The DC is the least played Sega system I have. I wanted to like the system, but there just weren't a lot of games made for it that really appealed to me. The only thing that really keeps me from selling it is my undying love for "Power Stone 2".

I never had a problem finding games for the XBOX (which is my "adopted" Sega console). I have over 30 games for that but barely 10 for the DC

[Poofta!]

sweater, no i never discuss anything on usenet

the reason it may seem im in the minority (trust me im not, in the real world most people agree, its only here that there just happens to be a collection of people who are into the console) im just the most vocal one here on the forums, i speak out against the dreamcast every chance i get.

dont get me started on what the n64 did [that was bad] it was just too much. however the system completely revolutionized home console gaming to such an extent that we have 90% of todays gaming trends to thank for it (so almost all of its massive list of shortcoming may be let go). the dreamcast did nothing, except teach developers to not use a windows OS, ever.

yes, all but 4 or so of my dc games are ISOs. and i do not feel the slightest urge to dole out more than the 20 cents they cost me for any of them.

3dfx failed because of this:
http://alt.modlabs.net/v56k.jpg
and trust me, it didnt perform nearly as good. the thing also need a power brick the size of the 360's connected in the back for it to run.
the reason you dont remember tears/graphical glitches back then is because a) you have bad memory and b) very few games truly stressed video hardware back then

now if youll excuse me, ill go play a round of power stone on my psp and maybe some landstalker on the genesis.

[otoko]

im just the most vocal one here on the forums, i speak out against the dreamcast every chance i get.


Please stop. The point of these forums is not to start bitching at every available chance...

[Brian Deuel]

sweater, no i never discuss anything on usenet

the reason it may seem im in the minority (trust me im not, in the real world most people agree, its only here that there just happens to be a collection of people who are into the console) im just the most vocal one here on the forums, i speak out against the dreamcast every chance i get.

So you think the Dreamcast sucks. Good for you. Cookies can be found in the snack isle.

Just don't get deluded thinking you can convince others.

Have a Dreamy day.

[Sweater Fish Deluxe]

the reason it may seem im in the minority (trust me im not, in the real world most people agree, its only here that there just happens to be a collection of people who are into the console) im just the most vocal one here on the forums, i speak out against the dreamcast every chance i get.
Your experiences don't match up with mine. I've never met more than a handful of people anywhere on the Internet or in real life that think the Dreamcast didn't have anything to offer. Go to any forum anywhere or into a any game store or arcade or anywhere that people talk about games and ask people what they think of the Dreamcast and the first thing they will always say was that it was axed too soon. They will then go on to mention many of the great games they enjoy or enjoyed on the system. The Dreamcast is one of those small handful of systems (along with the SNES, Neo Geo, GBA and maybe the Playstation 1 or 2) that there's pretty much no real debate over. It's quality and recognized as such.

Comments like yours would have rained on our parade in 2000 when it was still up in the air how the Dreamcast would pan out, but in 2008 now that all that stuff is history, they just seem odd and anachronistic.


...word is bondage...

[JunkTheMagicDragon]

way to pile on, guys.

i'm not going to say that the dc was a pos, but i think a lot of you are seeing this thing through the rose-colored glasses of nostalgia.

i didn't have a dc during its lifetime (nor a n64 for that matter); i bought mine in 2006.

all in all, i group the dreamcast in with the n64 and ps1 as a 'stepping stone' console. without them, we wouldn't be where we're at today, but because they were made in the infancy of 3d console gaming a lot of their software (and thus the gaming experience itself) has aged badly.

[Poofta!]

way to pile on, guys.

i'm not going to say that the dc was a pos, but i think a lot of you are seeing this thing through the rose-colored glasses of nostalgia.

i didn't have a dc during its lifetime (nor a n64 for that matter); i bought mine in 2006.

all in all, i group the dreamcast in with the n64 and ps1 as a 'stepping stone' console. without them, we wouldn't be where we're at today, but because they were made in the infancy of 3d console gaming a lot of their software (and thus the gaming experience itself) has aged badly.

i actually had all three of those during their release, and peak, and the gaming experience was pretty amazing, each console (yes, including the DC) was the graphical peak at it's time. in DC's case, however, the pretty games were also the ones that sucked. the n64 was simply on the wrong path (on several levels) and the ps1 got it down right, give people a huge selection of relatively inexpensive awesome games and you will succeed as the market leader for over a decade.

[Nick Goracke]

Heh, Poofta!, you crack me up. You didn't used to go by the name Omarichu, by any chance, did you? And post a lot to Usenet back in the day?

Blast from the past!

[Rob2600]

fps lineup? laughable.

To quote my previous post:

Dreamcast first-person shooters:

Quake III: Arena
Soldier of Fortune
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Rogue Spear
Unreal Tournament

How is that laughable? Besides Goldeneye 007 and Perfect Dark, what more could a first-person shooter fan want in 1999-2000?




Sega Does what Ninten WON'T

Fail as a console maker?

Awesome. :)

[Brian Deuel]

To quote my previous post:

Dreamcast first-person shooters:

Quake III: Arena
Soldier of Fortune
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Rogue Spear
Unreal Tournament

You forgot Outtrigger :)

[BocoDragon]

I just got into Dreamcast this year and was blown away... not only by the very unique game library, but the hardware. It's the epitome of 90s style arcade hardware in a console... pair it with VGA and you're set for some high quality gaming.

I mean... I played this thing for the first time after 360 and PS3, and came away impressed!... :D I don't see how anyone could hate on it.

[vespertillio]

2 words "Half Life"
It was awesome and still is. Understandable it wasn't released due to financial woes, but it really showed what the old DC can do. I still fire up the kisok and play it quite a few times a month.

[parallaxscroll]

One thing that gets forgotten, that before the final form & name of Dreamcast was announced in May 1998, there was much debate during 1997 on message boards and usenet about exactly what would power the new Sega console.


From 1995 to 1997 as Sega was developing various concepts for a successor to Saturn, it was widely expected that Lockheed Martin was working on the 3D subsystem for Saturn 2. In the arcades, the 3D power behind Sega's impressive boards was General Electric Aerospace (Model 1), Martin Marietta (Model 2) and Real3D / Lockheed Martin (Model 3). It was natural to assume this would be carried over to the new console. Sega made the mistake of not doing this with the Saturn. The Saturn was designed with Hitachi processors and off-the-shelf components, none of them suited to doing true 3D polygon graphics.

In 1997, it came somewhat as a surprise that Black Belt and Katana were using 3D technology from the PC 3D accelerator industry. 3Dfx and PowerVR were gaining acceptance in the PC industry but were only being tested in the arcades, and came up short next to the awesome Lockheed Martin Real3D powered Model 3 board. Thankfully, Katana/Dreamcast would not being using first-generation PowerVR tech, but more advanced second-generation PowerVR.

Even though PowerVR2 was not 100% equal to Real3D-powered Model 3 in every area (anti-aliasing, textures), PowerVR2 more or less brought consumer 3D upto roughly the same level as highend arcade 3D, at a very small fraction of the cost. 3Dfx had not achieved this by 1997. Sure they did later, in 1999-2000, but that was far too late to influence the decision on the 3D component of Dreamcast, which had to be set in stone in late 1997. The decision had already been made July 1997 when NEC & Videologic won the contract while 3Dfx lost.

[Superman]

The Dreamcast was codename Katana. I forgot about that.

I know looking back on it some people see it differently, but after learning about it, most people I talked to or heard talking about games couldn't wait for 9-9-99.

[Trevelyan]

10 years ago I was settled into the N64 & PC games when the DC was released (October 1999, Brit-land). I was very much focused on the release of Half Life: Opposing Force which dropped in the same month, and I think it was shipped with Team Fortress Classic (a watershed in Online gaming for me) here in the UK.

Understanding why it failed (& I think it did by industry standards, here in the UK), is complicated for me! Timing was an issue imo & PC & Nintendo magazines also had an influence if I recall. I felt the Sega CD, 32 X & the Saturn had bad press too. Poor Sega, I loved my Mega Drive & my old SMS. I'll get around to reading a book about the console wars one day.

[Steven]

jesus dreamcast fans are the most annoying and obnoxious fanboys ever.

every freaking year (several times actually, one for 'announced' one for 'released' one for 'died' etc) these threads come up.

its a miserable failure of a console, both hardware wise and software.
it is single handedly responsible for the fall of one of the biggest and well loved video game hardware manufacturers ever.
it is a massive disappointment to level-headed gamers everywhere, yet drives the sticky fanboys wild.

let. it. die.



Oh man, I bet you can't wait for 9-9-09 eh? The big 10 year US anniversary is going to draw HUNDREDS of nostalgic posts and articles ALL over the net.

Hell, a bud of mine is already planning to do something "big" on that day:



http://www.dreamondc.com/images/090909.gif



Good guy, but too bad he never really got his site off the ground. Still, he vows to unleash whatever it is he has up his sleeve on the big 1-0 US anniversary.

[Viraneth]

Ah dreamcast. At first, my rainy day console since 2004, now, one of my favorite peices of hardware. Simple, well made, innovative. It was a failed at being successful but what it caused in the gaming industry is still felt today. I'm still waiting for a modern system to use VMU style cards.

Maybe sega will announce a new system 9/9/09. Nice three day late birthday present for me :D

I say Maken X is still one of the most challenging console games made, since most console games are easy in a very asinine way.

[Rob2600]

The Dreamcast was codename Katana. I forgot about that.

Wasn't it also codenamed Dural?

[parallaxscroll]

Wasn't it also codenamed Dural?

I believe so, at the time anyway. However there is some confusion over this.
I myself am a little confused also.

Here's how I understand it:

Back in 1997, it was widely reported on the internet and in magazines that one of the systems being developed was codenamed Black Belt. The other one, which was being made in Japan and using PowerVR was supposedly codenamed Dural. However that codename was not *official* AFAIK. Sega didn't mention the name Dural, at least not in connection with Katana/Dreamcast. The system that was thought to be called Dural was officially codenamed Katana, and of course finally named Dreamcast for consumers.

Now years later, going by what I read on Wikipedia and elsewhere, it seems that Dural was actually one of the other names for the SoA-designed, 3Dfx-based Black Belt, and not Katana/Dreamcast.


edit: here's what's on Wiki

Katana/Dreamcast:


The Japanese group led by Hideki Sato settled on an Hitachi SH4 processor with a PowerVR graphics processor developed by VideoLogic (now Imagination Technologies) and manufactured by NEC. This was originally codenamed "White Belt". The first Japanese prototype boards were silkscreened "Guppy", and the later ones "Katana".


Black Belt:


The U.S. skunk works group (11 people in a secret suite away from the Sega of America headquarters) led by Tatsuo Yamamoto settled on an Hitachi SH4 processor with a 3dfx Voodoo 2 graphics processor, which was originally codenamed "Black Belt". The first U.S. prototype boards were silkscreened "Shark" and later "Dural" (whose name was taken from the shiny character from Sega's own Virtua Fighter series).

However this (http://nintendowiifans.blogspot.com/2006/10/nintendo-bets-on-wiis-novelty-but.html) says Dural was one of the names for Katana/Dreamcast:





The US skunkworks group (in a secret suite at the 303 Twin Dolphin Drive building) led by Tatsuo Yamamoto settled on an IBM/Motorola PowerPC 603e processor with a 3dfx Voodoo 2 graphics processor, which was originally codenamed "Black Belt". The first US prototype boards were silkscreened "Shark".

The Japanese hardware was codenamed "Dural", then later, "Katana". "Black Belt" and "Shark" were the only codenames used by the US hardware team (the hardware team was called "Black Belt team"; the "Shark" was in response to the Japanese team's "Guppy").


So....

Sega of Japan console (selected as the winner):
White Belt / Dural / Guppy / Katana / Dreamcast

Sega of America console (the losing hardware):
Black Belt / Shark

[Nick Goracke]

The Dreamcast is one of those small handful of systems (along with the SNES, Neo Geo, GBA and maybe the Playstation 1 or 2) that there's pretty much no real debate over. It's quality and recognized as such.


What a weird comment to make. If we're including the Dreamcast and Neo Geo in this category, both of which are very much niche systems with very small but dedicated fanbases, what could you honestly exlcude from the list.

[Greg2600]

Poofta, the 3dfx card was the best out there, and they had flawless drivers to boot. I haven't bought an ATI or NVidia card in several years, but in the 90's and early 2000's, they're stuff was unbelievably difficult to get to work. Hardware was probably fine, but their drivers were garbage and technical support even worse.

Dreamcast is a decent system, but that's it. You simply cannot make ANY argument over the PS2, XBox, or even the Gamecube. Most of the games SEGA licensed out on those systems too later on. SEGA once again dropped a superior technical product on the market, but it was rushed as usual and soon to be eclipsed by other consoles. SEGA's reputation doomed it most of all. I remember when it came out, and I saw it in the stores, and had my usual internal chuckle at how it would last a year or two and SEGA would give up again. They did.

Isn't Dreamcast up there with Colecovision in terms of hardware durability? Meaning not good. Not sure you can celebrate a system that was surpassed by its contemporaries and prone to failure?

[NayusDante]

Half Life 2 and CSS on a Voodoo 3 (http://www.3dfxzone.it/enboard/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1354)

Doom 3 on a Voodoo 2 (http://www.firingsquad.com/media/gallery_index.asp/244)

[Sweater Fish Deluxe]

What a weird comment to make. If we're including the Dreamcast and Neo Geo in this category, both of which are very much niche systems with very small but dedicated fanbases, what could you honestly exlcude from the list.
Any system that's not current is going to have a very small fanbase. I don't think the fanbase for a system like the Neo Geo is any smaller than the current fanbase for the SNES, NES or any other classic system even though they were more popular in their own day. We're all niche gamers here. You know that, right?


...word is bondage...

[Zap!]

What's wrong with the Dreamcast hardware? The controllers were decent, but the console itself was actually quite good.

While I don't think it had an amazing library like some other people do, it definitely had a handful of great games.



No, that was the Sega CD, 32X, and Saturn. The Dreamcast was the victim of "too little, too late."


It can be argued that Sony indirectly killed Sega (and severely wounded Nintendo too), which is why I loath Sony with a passion. Thankfully, Nintendo survived its wounds.

[Greg2600]

Half Life 2 and CSS on a Voodoo 3 (http://www.3dfxzone.it/enboard/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1354)

Doom 3 on a Voodoo 2 (http://www.firingsquad.com/media/gallery_index.asp/244)


Ah, thanks for the backup! I was really aggravated when they suddenly went out of business. There was literally nothing I couldn't get to run on my Voodoo3 easily, until Video RAM requirements exceeded 16MB. What a shame.

[NayusDante]

If you read the history of 3dfx (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3dfx#Cause_of_decline), it all makes (tragic) sense. The corporate execs spent more than they were making on lunches and such. Their assets were sold off to nVidia, and many speculate that the in-development tech from 3dfx lives on in the GeForce line.

[Nick Goracke]

Any system that's not current is going to have a very small fanbase.


It didn't have a big fan base when it was current.



I don't think the fanbase for a system like the Neo Geo is any smaller than the current fanbase for the SNES, NES or any other classic system even though they were more popular in their own day.


That's a completely counterintuitive conclusion to reach.

For the sake of argument though, lets say it was true! How does it refute this statement: If we're including the Dreamcast and Neo Geo in this category, both of which are very much niche systems with very small but dedicated fanbases, what could you honestly exlcude from the list? If fanbases for these classic systems are all pretty much equal, despite how popular they were in their prime, what would you exclude from the list of systems that are "known to be quality"?

[parallaxscroll]

If you read the history of 3dfx (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3dfx#Cause_of_decline), it all makes (tragic) sense. The corporate execs spent more than they were making on lunches and such. Their assets were sold off to nVidia, and many speculate that the in-development tech from 3dfx lives on in the GeForce line.



It's not speculation, it's fact. Nvidia has even mentioned that 3Dfx tech was fused into the GeForce line. Nvidia just won't say precisely what 3Dfx tech. However it's known that the FX was the first GeForce to get a significant amount of 3Dfx tech. The vastly better & more successful NV40 / GF 6800 series is said to have the "Texture Computer" from 3Dfx's unfinished Rampage, in some form.

[NayusDante]

It's not speculation, it's fact. Nvidia has even mentioned that 3Dfx tech was fused into the GeForce line. Nvidia just won't say precisely what 3Dfx tech. However it's known that the FX was the first GeForce to get a significant amount of 3Dfx tech. The vastly better & more successful NV40 / GF 6800 series is said to have the "Texture Computer" from 3Dfx's unfinished Rampage, in some form.

That explains why Doom 3 runs, to an extent. The 6000 series and Doom 3 coincided, so you could argue that the underlying architecture was there.

[Rob2600]

Isn't Dreamcast up there with Colecovision in terms of hardware durability? Meaning not good. Not sure you can celebrate a system that was surpassed by its contemporaries and prone to failure?

You're thinking of the PlayStation, PlayStation 2, Xbox, and Xbox 360. For the most part, the Dreamcast console itself was fine...less problematic than the four modern consoles I just mentioned.

The biggest problem with the Dreamcast I can remember was on launch day. A bunch of customers returned their games to us because they wouldn't play. It turned out almost half of the Dreamcast games we had were blank discs. I can still picture the massive stack of defective Sonic Adventure games in our back room.

[parallaxscroll]

I disagree about the statement of Dreamcast's durability. It is the least durable system Sega produced. I've owned 8 Dreamcasts (1 non-Japanese Asian model and 7 U.S. models) and 3 of the U.S. units have had the GD-ROM drive crap out. I'm big fan of Dreamcast but these systems do not last as well. Only the Xbox 360 has more problems. I've had only 1 PS2 since 2002 and it's never had a problem. I've also only had 1 original Xbox and dispite sometimes not reading a disc, it's held up.

By comparison, the Saturn was a tank.

[OldSchoolGamer]

;)I have 2 original DREAMCASTS one I recently got back from a friend and both still running perfect!

[parallaxscroll]

Of my 6 remaining Dreamcasts, 3 work fine, and 3 have problems reading discs.

My oldest model, the asian one, is still working fine.

[8-bitNesMan]

the reason it may seem im in the minority (trust me im not, in the real world most people agree, its only here that there just happens to be a collection of people who are into the console) im just the most vocal one here on the forums, i speak out against the dreamcast every chance i get.

That's asinine. Because we all know that casual and non gamers know SO much about what really makes our hobby great. :roll: I'm not a Sega fanboy, but the Dreamcast was and still is a great system and it was ahead of its time when it was released. The launch lineup was arguably the best ever compiled. The controllers were great to me and seemed to directly inspire Microsoft in making the controller S and the 360 pad (also GREAT controllers). It was ready for online gaming out of the box... in 1999. Granted 56K wasn't great, but it worked and you could pony up the extra dough and get the broadband adapter if you were lucky enough to have high speed back in the day. It saddens me to think that the pure hype of the missile launching PS2 (which truly SUCKED ass for at least the first year of its life) killed a good system with a lot of potential. And to second an earlier poster: If you hate it so much, why are you here posting in this thread? You are wholly entitled to your opinion sir as are those of us who recognize the quality and greatness of the little white box that almost could.

[Greg2600]

http://www.videogamecritic.net/dcinfo.htm


Console durability: D. The system's main downfall may be its reliability. The Dreamcast laser mechanism tends to wear out over time, making it prone to intermittent read problems. As a result, many Dreamcast fans own a second (or third) system as a backup.

Maybe all CD/DVD based consoles fall into this category?

PS: I have an NVidia GeForce, and its a good card. Their hardware is fine, but the problem is the drivers. Both NVidia and ATI, a few years back at least, did a poor job on them.

[otaku]

I haven't been around alot of dreamcasts to know how they hold up but have heard its not so good so I bought mine this year brand new in box. My friend who bought his at launch is still going fine though. It may not quite be up to saturn standards (but few cd systems are) really cd systems tend to suck for durability. whats really gonna suck is when Dcs are hard to find working and getting parts to fix them is hard (GDROM) otherwise they're cheap right now so who cares if one dies to some extent

[j_factor]

I disagree about the statement of Dreamcast's durability. It is the least durable system Sega produced. I've owned 8 Dreamcasts (1 non-Japanese Asian model and 7 U.S. models) and 3 of the U.S. units have had the GD-ROM drive crap out. I'm big fan of Dreamcast but these systems do not last as well. Only the Xbox 360 has more problems. I've had only 1 PS2 since 2002 and it's never had a problem. I've also only had 1 original Xbox and dispite sometimes not reading a disc, it's held up.

By comparison, the Saturn was a tank.

I have to agree with you, except I think the original Playstation -- the "turn it upside-down" model -- was worse. It seems like everyone had something wrong with their PSX. The only consoles I've ever had major problems with are PSX and DC (I've never had a 360 though). My PS2, which I bought in Jan. 2003 and was a used system, is still truckin', and only has occasional difficulties with DVD videos. My original Xbox, bought in Oct. 2002, has never once given me an error. But I had to replace my first DC because it kept resetting to the system menu in the middle of a game, and I had to replace my PSX twice (the second time I just got a PS2) because of really bad skipping/disc read problems.

[otoko]

I must be in a minority.. I've only had to replace my dreamcast once because of video issues.. I figured out since that it was just extremely dirty contacts..

Stupid me ROFL