Question for those that were alive during the pre NES era.

[emceelokey]

I was wondering how exactly games were preceived during that era. The way I see things, the NES was the first console to be looked at as a "video game" system rather than a toy per say. My best example of how I think video games were looked at back then is how a Lepaster or V-Tech "system" is looked at today. The Leapster and V-Tech are presented more as toys with interchangeable programs rather than a "gaming" system. I look at how many systems were out between the Atari 2006 and the NEs and it just seems like they were put out more as "toys" rather than a gaming system. Waht was the case back then?

[winona2k]

I very much concidered the 2600 and vectrex to be video games. At the very least something unique and non-toy like. Im not sure I used the definition Video games though. All in all, I think the 2600 started the definition of video games. Not the NES.

[Cobra Commander]

I remember those times as being similar to what's going on with the Wii right now. I remember playing with my whole family. It wasn't like it was a toy for kids. The Atari 2600 in my house was something to do with the TV besides watching it. It was something the whole family got involved with. It was like that with everyone I knew. Everyone liked playing Pac-Man or Donkey Kong. Most guys like my dad and I liked Football and Boxing while my mom preferred Pac-Man and Frogs and Flies.
Back then it was a new phenomenon. It was unlike anything else. Everyone was interested in playing games on the TV.

Looking back on it, it really seemed kinda magical.

[Superman]

I was born around the time the Atari 2600 came out so that is about as far back as I can speak for, but I don't remember any systems specifically being considered a toy. If anything, they were promoted as more of 'computer' type entertainment systems.

As for me, I looked at them like video games. I played pitfall, space invaders, pacman, etc as video games, not as educational toys. Everyone else I knew seemed to look at them the same way as well.

I guess the best way to explain it is, before Nintendo, Atari had the gaming name. Everyone was going to play 'Atari', even if they were really going to play Colecovison or Intellivision.

[Phosphor Dot Fossils]

My best example of how I think video games were looked at back then is how a Lepaster or V-Tech "system" is looked at today. The Leapster and V-Tech are presented more as toys with interchangeable programs rather than a "gaming" system.

That couldn't be further from the truth - pre-NES video games were very much perceived as video games. If there was a "novelty" element to anything, it would've been the very early systems (Odyssey/Pong, especially Odyssey with its poker chips and flash cards, etc.) and the early LED-based electronic games (i.e. Blip, Mattel Football, etc.). By the time Pac-Man fever hit, trust me, nobody was looking at the 2600 like it was Furby.

Ironically, when the boom went bust and several companies crashed so hard that they cratered, Nintendo had to try its hardest to make NES look like a toy rather than a video game, primarily by including R.O.B. The retail outlets were still stinging from the unhealable deep-cut discounts of the crash that many of them wouldn't have touched the NES without that attempt to look less video-game-like. That also got them a national distribution deal with a major toy dealer, another venue that probably wouldn't have bothered with NES if not for the robot.

As soon as Nintendo had its foot in the door and a hit on its hands, to mix a metaphor or two, you'll notice that R.O.B. kinda quietly faded away.

[GaijinPunch]

I wasn't allowed to get a 2600 until it was pretty dated. My friends had it though, and I played the shit out of it when I went to their places. I never really saw it as the "family entertainment" thing though. It was for kids. When the NES came out though, I shit my pants as I was such a huge SMB fan.

[tom]

I was wondering how exactly games were preceived during that era. The way I see things, the NES was the first console to be looked at as a "video game" system rather than a toy per say. My best example of how I think video games were looked at back then is how a Lepaster or V-Tech "system" is looked at today. The Leapster and V-Tech are presented more as toys with interchangeable programs rather than a "gaming" system. I look at how many systems were out between the Atari 2006 and the NEs and it just seems like they were put out more as "toys" rather than a gaming system. Waht was the case back then?

Rather silly what you're trying to say. Video games are toys, nothing else.

[Jimid2]

I don't think many of us saw the 2600 as "just a toy" - the damned thing cost a fortune in its day! I was 15 when it was released and waited until I was 17 or 18 before we had one in the house I was living in... It was an amazing piece of technology and more than "just a toy", the same way an electric guitar or a motorcycle was more than a toy... I was living with a bunch of friends then, and we'd all chip in on games for the thing, and we played it constantly when we weren't watching movies on our betamax... ;)

[guitargary75]

They were not thought of as toys, rather computer systems. However, they had a broader base unlike some of todays systems such as the Playstation 3 or the 360. By broader base, I mean moms and dads and grandma and grandpa. I don't see grandpa playing halo today, but he did play pac-man with me on the 2600.

[YoshiM]

I look at how many systems were out between the Atari 2006 and the NEs and it just seems like they were put out more as "toys" rather than a gaming system.

While there was advertising that did target a younger audience (Coleco's "Buy a Colecovision and get a free Cabbage Patch Kid" promo springs to mind, where the young sister talks up her brother so he can get the game system while coyly denying knowledge of the free doll), the majority of the push was for everyone. The Atari VCS/2600 was positioned as the "everyman" machine, the Intellivision went for sophistication, the Coleco strived to bring "the arcade home" (and did a great job at it).

Like PDF said, Nintendo used the robot to get into the toy market but they also designed the system to look more like a component of one's entertainment setup. Back then if you stripped the Nintendo name off the cartridge lid and just had it sitting by the TV without controllers hooked up, people in general wouldn't have had any idea what it was because it didn't look like a game system. The name tried to conceal what the machine was.

If anything the concept of a video game system being seen as a "toy" is probably from an "older" generation. You know, games by some are seen as a "waste of time" just like playing with toys eventually become as one grew older.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

As another who grew up with everything from Atari 2600 to Colecovision in my household, the consoles of that era were hardly considered "toys",

in fact, more consoles of that era had devices and add-on components (keyboards, modems, printers, etc.) to make them simulate the "home computer" experience than the NES, Genesis, or any other console of that era that came after in the US (recently the line is blurring MUCH more, but then there was a great divide).

And, I'm sure most people who grew up in the Atari era will concur, their families, peers, etc. are more likely to have looked at a console like the NES with it's peripherals like the Power Pad, R.O.B., Power Glove, etc. and see THAT as a "toy" and less of a "home video game" machine attempting to emulate/simulate the "arcade"/"video game"/"personal computer" experience to the degree that the Atari 2600 did.

Pretty much the exact opposite of what you described from my POV.

[MrSparkle]

They were not thought of as toys, rather computer systems. However, they had a broader base unlike some of todays systems such as the Playstation 3 or the 360. By broader base, I mean moms and dads and grandma and grandpa. I don't see grandpa playing halo today, but he did play pac-man with me on the 2600.

today you see grandpa playing wii sports bowling ;)

[dgdgagdae]

The title of this thread makes me feel old.

[Greg2600]

If not for the Atari 2600, and the concept of "Atari" in general, there would be no NES. The 2600 was at least to everyone I knew, a video game, which was a toy, and still is I guess. A home video game, in contrast to an arcade. I don't recall the mindset changing at all before or after the NES.

By the time I was old enough to appreciate video games, probably around 1984, the crash had happened. After that, most people only had the 2600. The Colecovision, Intellivision and 5200 were looked at more or less as frivelous. Why do I need to buy something new when this old thing works? Graphical improvements were very slim and not noticeable enough. After the crash, nobody bothered with anything but the 2600.

The NES was a God send. New games other than Pac-Man or Donkey Kong! A thousand times better graphics and sound and a more sophisticated controller! Just the fact of having something new where you didn't have to rely on old beat up equipment.

Most of all, to answer the poster's question, the NES was the first system for us kids. What I mean is, my father, and older cousins all had the Atari 2600 from many years earlier. Most kids my age or a little older had it passed down to them like you did old Matchbox cars or model Trains. The NES was ours though. Especially since most of the older folks all of a sudden either could not figure out how to play the NES (I am serious) or hated it compared to the simply Atari. I remember being so excited about kicking their butt in an NES game, whereas I stood no chance on Atari. So in that sense, simply due to the increased power and complexity of the NES, it was not just a video game toy, but a full fledged video game system now. The mindset didn't change much, except that you would play the NES all day and night, whereas you'd have to be insanely bored to do that with the Atari 2600 (got old fast). There were plots, missions, more levels. The change was more in terms of complexity, and then who still wanted to play it or not, but we always saw the 2600 as one of the forerunners to the NES.

[NE146]

Come on man.. from the time in the late 70's I got hooked on Space Invaders and every acade game that came out after that, they were pure, 100% "VIDEO GAMES". What the heck else could they be? :p Read any classic magazine. That's what they were, that's what they are now. And that Atari VCS in my house was Video Games as well of course.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v48/b2stoys/joy1983.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v48/b2stoys/joy1282.jpg

[ErmangelnSeelen]

"How to win at video games"

ROFL, I don't even know why, but that is the funniest title ever.... I'd love to see it applied today ^_-

Myself, I don't have that much to contribute here, as I am really young, but I did want to say that I think it's a cool topic, and an interesting one. It's kinda cool to see around the time "video games" were really established.

[diskoboy]

The title of this thread makes me feel old.

Agreed....I started gaming about a year after the VCS launch.

I was already in middle school the year the NES came out, here. I considered it more of a toy than my Odyssey 2 or VCS.

[Sweater Fish Deluxe]

(sorry, double post.)

[Sweater Fish Deluxe]

Well, whether they were thought of as "video games" then or not misses the point, I think. Instead, I think what emceelokey was getting at is what did "playing video games" mean back then? What sort of cultural assoiations did that term and the concept of video games have in the early '80s that are different from the way they were understood in the late'80 or today. While it's certainly true that video games are video games are video games, there's also no doubt that their cultural meaning and associations have undergone some very significant semantic shifts over the years. And not just between 1983 and 1987, either. Really, the term is in a constant state of transition. I don't think the associatios with video games shifted any more between the 2600 and NES eras than between the NES and Playstation eras or between the Playstation era and today.

I agree with what many others have said in this thread about how video games were percieved in the early '80s. They were not thought of as toys. I would say they were thought of as "home entertainment." Similar to board games perhaps, but that's probably not a good example because the meaning of "board games" has changed as well over the years and now they're thought of more as toys, which wasn't the case in the '70s and early '80s. Is there another example? I guess like some people have already said, the Wii is maybe the closest analogy.

The NES was really the system that cemented the identification of video games with kids. After the first couple years, the NES got away from the whole "toy" angle, but it remained closely identified with children. It was a fad specifically for children, whereas earlier fads in video games had been just as much for teenagers or young adults or even older adults with children of their own.

Later, that singular identification of video games with children wore off. I think, mostly because the children who played the NES grew up. They became teenagers in the 16- and 32-bit eras, then took their Playstations to college with them, then continued buying new system even as adults. This trend has been simultaneous with new kids beginning to play video games during each era as well, so that now again you see something more like the same spectrum of people playing video games that you did in the early '80s. Maybe not quite. Give it another 10 years. Nintendo is obviously trying to get the jump on that pattern. And why not? They've been in the perfect position to see it forming over the last 20 years.


...word is bondage...

[tom]

Actually, Nintendo tried with the NES to get away from 'video games', as the console was a 'control deck', and the carts were named 'game packs', especially to be sold at toy stores.
You can read it in Game Over the book, the chapter when launching the NES in the USA

[Dire 51]

Especially since most of the older folks all of a sudden either could not figure out how to play the NES (I am serious) or hated it compared to the simply Atari.
My parents felt that way. They loved the 2600 but didn't even want to bother with the NES, especially after seeing the controller.

Speaking of the controller, was I the only one here that felt slightly confused once seeing that the NES controller didn't have a joystick, but some weird looking cross thing instead?

[tom]

My parents felt that way. They loved the 2600 but didn't even want to bother with the NES, especially after seeing the controller.

Speaking of the controller, was I the only one here that felt slightly confused once seeing that the NES controller didn't have a joystick, but some weird looking cross thing instead?

Because they were easternized joypads, button labeling the 'wrong' way around (B, A), control and fire the wrong way round, for us Western people.

[guitargary75]

today you see grandpa playing wii sports bowling ;)

Good point. I think that is why the Wii is killing the other consoles of today. It's all about replay value and how quick the learning curve is before the masses will accept it. By masses I mean every age group.

[Dire 51]

Because they were easternized joypads, button labeling the 'wrong' way around (B, A), control and fire the wrong way round, for us Western people.
So you were confused too, eh?

[Greg2600]

Good point. I think that is why the Wii is killing the other consoles of today. It's all about replay value and how quick the learning curve is before the masses will accept it. By masses I mean every age group.

I still say the Wii is popular because of the drastically lower price than the other two rip-off machines. It's much more popular with Children, ala the NES, although I think this whole old folks craze is way over blown. It is a return to the Atari style though. That said, you have millions of people who grew up with the NES and subsequent consoles. They, like me, prefer better graphics, realistic effects, and more challenging games. In a sense, the same young adults and teens who considered the Atari "cool" and the NES for kids, now have done a 180. Those who view the PS3 or 360 as cool are the NES disciples. I am generalizing of course.

[8bitgamer]

The Atari 2600, Intellivision, ColecoVision and the like were definitely considered as something other than toys. Lots of adults played the sports titles and arcade classics, and the systems were usually set up in the family living room, not bedrooms. In addition, they were very expensive ($200 and more) when first released.

[Pantechnicon]

The first time I laid hands on anything that could be considered a home video game was a Pong unit back in 1977 purchased by my best friends' parents. Given the cost of the thing at around $200, it was hardly considered a "toy". Indeed, I remember a standing order that anybody who so much as touched the thing without parental supervision was headed for a one way trip to Spank City on the grounds of tampering with an expensive piece of sophisticated electronics. And don't let's forget that in 1977 Pong was an expensive piece of sophisticated electronics. Perhaps our eyes are too dazzled by Blu-Ray to appreciate this fact in hindsight, but I was there and the regard for the device made perfect sense at the time.

The "home entertainment" category previously mentioned is probably the best niche to describe the market appeal of the time. I would say that up until 1980 or so home video games were marketed as an investment more or less parallel to that one might make in building a stereo system out of high grade components, which was how tech-savvy people indulged their fetishes before computers became more widespread.

One last thing to keep in mind: The first Pong arcade cab was installed in a bar, not a roller rink or some other child-friendly venue. Clearly the target market was a niche implicitly composed of persons with control over their own disposable incomes, i.e. - adults, not kids.

[emceelokey]

Wow interesting read all the way through. Thanks guys.

I remember reading something about the NES about how they tried to not look like a "video game" system and desigined the system to look like something that would fit in with a typical entertainment system (betamax, radio receiver) but I had no idea that the R.O.B. was intended to actually make it more like a toy to reach that childrens market. It seems like they were trying to do anything but be a "video game" system.

In the end I'm more trying to understand where home video gaming stood before the crash and pretty much the modern, NES to now, era. I know Nintendo learned a lot from the pre crash era and they've since set many standards and practices that still are implicated today. I've only been alive post crash so I'm just really interested in that whole era.

[8bitgamer]

Sounds like reading up on the subject would be a good idea. Check the following sites for some books you may be interested in:

http://www.rolentapress.com/

http://brettweisswords.blogspot.com/

http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-History-Video-Games-Pokemon/dp/0761536434

[Deadman]

This is a very interesting question and line of replies to me, and has caused me quite a bit of retrospection on the subject. Let me say that generally speaking, comparing the gaming climate of 1977 to now is almost like comparing the beautiful and luxurious cars of the 1950's to the bare-bones utility vehicles of the early 1900's. As kids, we spent our days outside, riding bikes (without fear of abduction), playing Hot Wheels in the dirt, playing Hide and Seek or Football in the neighborhood. The only times you played inside was when it was raining! The biggest and baddest punishment of all was being told to go to your room, and now, that's where kids like to spend most of their time!

By 1979 or 1980, you didn't say "hey let's go play some video games", you said "you wanna play Atari?". "Atari" became the name for the genre, like "Band Aids" for bandages or "Kleenex" for tissue. When the Intellivision and Colecovision were introduced, it was actually kind of confusing, both for kids and parents. For Xmas, do you ask for the graphically superior Intellivision that no one has, or do you get an "old" Atari that all your friends have, so you can trade cartridges, trade gaming tips and stories?

The Atari literally changed the world, doing just what the pictures on the box portrayed: bringing Mom and Dad and the kids into the same room after dinner to play games. Where the television used to be reserved for Dad to get the latest news from Walter Cronkite, now the family crowded around it to watch someone play Space Invaders, Night Driver, or Super Breakout.

One last note. At a "dinner party" at our house in 1979, my brother, two friends and I were playing Atari and we began to attract a large crowd of adults who really hadn't seen much of video games yet. I clearly remember a comment from one Dad who said "This thing cost $300? Such a shame the kids will be tired of it by next month." My mom answered with "The boys love it and have been playing it for over a year now. I think these are going to wipe out board games completely."

Close, but not 100% right.

[Fuyukaze]

I remember back in 82 when I got my 2600 very vaguely. My mother didnt think of it as something I could build a rocket with and she didnt think it would get me thru college, but for it's price it was a great deal further from being called a toy then anything else at the time. We thought it was a home arcade unit that could play all the great arcade games I'd spend quarter after quarter on. With less spectacular graphics true, but a home version of all those great arcade games. It was a well loved machine in our home as everyone played it. Even if they sucked at it.

[jb143]

I was always under the impression that home video game systems were looked down upon and considered more of toys by the hardcore arcade gamers. At least early on anyways. I even have an old "how to win at arcade games" book that has an appendix in the back trying to convince people that they should at least consider an Atari or Colecovision...to practice their skills at home:p