April 2008 NPD Sales: Wii 700K, 360 & PS3 <200K

[jjgames]

I saw NPD has released their April 08 sales. Some surprises if you ask me.

Hardware
PlayStation 2 124.4K
PlayStation 3 187.1K
PSP 192.7K
Xbox 360 188.0K
Wii 714.2K
Nintendo DS 414.8K

Top 10 VG Titles - April'08 Units*
360 GTA IV 1.85mm
Wii Mario Kart w/ wheel 1.12mm
PS3 GTA IV 1.00mm
Wii Play 360K
Wii Super Smash Bros. Brawl 326K
PS3 Gran Turismo 5: Prologue 224K
DS Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Darkness 202K
DS Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Time 202K
Wii Guitar Hero III 152K
360 Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 141K

I thought 360 and PS3 would get a bigger boost from GTAIV. Wii is selling really well, it is pretty amazing.

[badinsults]

It is likely because most people who wanted GTA4 already have a next-gen console. It is a game that is geared towards the same people who have games like Call of Duty 4 and Halo 3.

[boatofcar]

It is likely because most people who wanted GTA4 already have a next-gen console. It is a game that is geared towards the same people who have games like Call of Duty 4 and Halo 3.

I have a feeling that Sony thought GTA4 would move a lot more PS3s than it actually did.

[Darren870]

Im surprised wii play is still selling like it is...

[The 1 2 P]

Next month's console sales will more reflect the GTA4 sales.

[robotriot]

Im surprised wii play is still selling like it is...

I think people are going for the controller, and not the game actually.

[unwinddesign]

I think people are going for the controller, and not the game actually.

Yeah, the people who buy Wii Play look at it and the controller and think they're getting a bargain. I thought that when I picked it up this month. Too bad they aren't, since Wii Play is one of the worst collection of "games" I've ever had the misfortune of playing. Might as well flush the $10 or wipe your ass with it, since those two activities are vastly more fun.

[robotriot]

I agree, it's pretty crappy. I only played it once, never touched it again. The only thing that was at least borderline enjoyable was the tank game.

[Half Japanese]

It still boggles my mind how well the Wii is selling. I guess a lot of people really, really like seeing a crude, armless likeness of themselves playing sports.

[Rob2600]

It still boggles my mind how well the Wii is selling. I guess a lot of people really, really like seeing a crude, armless likeness of themselves playing sports.

Or they like playing A+ games like Super Mario Galaxy, Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Metroid Prime, Mario Kart, and Guitar Hero III. :)

[unwinddesign]

Or they like playing A+ games like Super Mario Galaxy, Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Metroid Prime, Mario Kart, and Guitar Hero III. :)

Actually, a lot of people just buy it for Wii Sports. Seriously. And Wii Play, evidently...

[Rob2600]

Actually, a lot of people just buy it for Wii Sports. Seriously. And Wii Play, evidently...

Maybe, but then why are there so many Wii games that have sold over a million copies?

Wikipedia - List of Best-Selling Video Games - Wii (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best_selling_video_games#Wii)

[unwinddesign]

Maybe, but then why are there so many Wii games that have sold over a million copies?

Wikipedia - List of Best-Selling Video Games - Wii (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best_selling_video_games#Wii)

Excluding Wii Sports, Wii Play, and Link's Crossbow Training, it has sold about 115 million games. That's only 40 million more than the PS3, which has barely half the Wii's units (12.9 million to 24.4 million) sold.

I highly doubt the Wii will come anywhere close to touching the Playstation 2's billion+ sales, despite its high install base. Additionally, despite the fact that Mario, Zelda and the rest of the gang have been around far longer than franchises such as GTA or Halo, they've been firmly trounced in sales by both games. Games that also sell at higher price points ($60) vs. ($50).

[Rob2600]

Excluding Wii Sports, Wii Play, and Link's Crossbow Training, it has sold about 115 million games. That's only 40 million more than the PS3, which has barely half the Wii's units (12.9 million to 24.4 million) sold.

I highly doubt the Wii will come anywhere close to touching the Playstation 2's billion+ sales, despite its high install base. Additionally, despite the fact that Mario, Zelda and the rest of the gang have been around far longer than franchises such as GTA or Halo, they've been firmly trounced in sales by both games. Games that also sell at higher price points ($60) vs. ($50).

What's your point? My point was that many people *don't* buy a Wii only for Wii Sports.

[Poofta!]

What's your point? My point was that many people *don't* buy a Wii only for Wii Sports.

point is: they do. and when those two dry up, people go looking for the next big thing, which they think ageless franchises such as mario and zelda can fill.

while wii is flying off the shelf like its free, truth is, its NOT a gamer's console, so a lot of the main nintendo franchises arent performing to their potential, and those 4-8 games, hardly matter.

having zelda, and several others, i honestly can say i enjoyed wii sports a hell of a lot more.

[unwinddesign]

What's your point? My point was that many people *don't* buy a Wii only for Wii Sports.

Way to take what I said way, way too literally. There are people out there who just buy it for Wii Sports (there's been news features on that), but obviously most buy one or two additional titles. Just not many titles. And they wouldn't buy the console in the first place if Wii Sports didn't exist. You think grandma is interested in Zelda? But oh boy, put Wii Bowling on, and the old people just be linin' up to play, like it's the best game eternity has ever seen.

Which is to say, in summation, the Wii isn't doing as well as everyone thinks it is. Yes, it's a smashing hit. But Nintendo isn't making as much money as, say, Sony did when they dominated gaming. Why? Because it's the games that make the money. And the games really aren't selling that much better than their Xbox 360/PS3 counterparts, when they SHOULD be, given the gap in install base.

[mregashu]

Unwind, you're right that it's the games that make the money. But that is less important when you're pulling a decent profit margin on every system sold, something Microsoft and Sony can't claim.

You're also forgetting that the system is the straw that stirs the drink, so to speak. If more people own a Wii than any other system, and Madden is a huge seller every year, guess what system is gonna see a ton of copies of Madden sold on it? If you look at that list, there is only one cross-ALL-platforms game on the list. It's Guitar Hero III, for the...wait for it....Wii.

The point is, the attach rate for the Wii will probably get bigger and bigger as time goes on because most people aren't as rabid as us at DP. They won't buy a Wii because of Bowling but later on say "Now I need to spend another 300 to 400 dollars so I can play Madden with more realistic armpit sweat"...they'll just buy Madden on the Wii.

[unwinddesign]

Unwind, you're right that it's the games that make the money. But that is less important when you're pulling a decent profit margin on every system sold, something Microsoft and Sony can't claim.

You're also forgetting that the system is the straw that stirs the drink, so to speak. If more people own a Wii than any other system, and Madden is a huge seller every year, guess what system is gonna see a ton of copies of Madden sold on it? If you look at that list, there is only one cross-ALL-platforms game on the list. It's Guitar Hero III, for the...wait for it....Wii.

The point is, the attach rate for the Wii will probably get bigger and bigger as time goes on because most people aren't as rabid as us at DP. They won't buy a Wii because of Bowling but later on say "Now I need to spend another 300 to 400 dollars so I can play Madden with more realistic armpit sweat"...they'll just buy Madden on the Wii.

I don't think so; the attach rate, despite an insane number of games being released (255 in North America), is very low. In comparison, the N64, with only 300 games and change released in NA, sold 225 million games, an attach rate of 7 [higher priced -- they ran around $50 - $60 on average, and "budget" releases were $40; also, the dollar was worth more] for its lifecycle. Obviously, that's over a ten year span, but the Wii isn't that far behind in either A) total install base or B) total number of titles available or C) number of AAA first party titles available, so I feel it's a viable comparison. The Xbox 360 has the highest attach rate at around 7.8 games per console, which is unusually [record, actually] high. If you look at the ratings, it's clear why -- on MetaCritic, over 90 games are rated at 80 above for the 360, versus 22 for the Wii. I know that Nintendo does make money on each console sold ($13 in Japan, ~$40 - $75 elsewhere), which adds up to some serious money. But with an attach rate of just over 4 games per console (with many titles either budget priced or $50 -- lower than the competition, in any event), Nintendo isn't making as much money as they could. In fact, I'd reckon Microsoft would be making more, if it weren't for the ludicrous costs of fixing/redesigning the inside of their RROD prone system.

What this all means, ultimately, at the end of the day, is that I think 3rd party publishers might start to only release budget titles and ports to the Wii. It's already started -- look at the number of quality (and no, Elebits and all that other garbage doesn't count), MGS/GTA etc. games released for the Wii (and N64/GC). It's almost zero. So while it looks Nintendo is scoring an epic victory and comeback, all seems not to be well in paradise. And for some reason, analysts and the media have failed to pick up on this trend.

In summation, people aren't buying a ton of games for the Wii, despite their cheapness. Which is why I'm curious as to if Nintendo can keep up their golden run, or if they'll taper off. I don't think, two years from now, Wii Sports will be good enough to have everyone orgasming for joy when they play it. Especially when games on the 360 and PS3 will most likely shit so badly on the Wii in the graphics category that it'll be hard NOT to notice the difference.

And, on a side note, GHIII sold best on PS2 (3.9 million). It sold second best on 360 (2.9 million, a lot at $100 -- the highest out of any of the consoles)), and 3rd best on Wii (2.55 million) (despite the reduced price point). The reason the Wii version's sales picked up is because the game dropped in price again. The other reason is that it got outsold 3:1 in its first week of release, which means that more people on the 360 already own it, hence less demand.

[Rob2600]

Nintendo isn't making as much money as, say, Sony did when they dominated gaming. Why? Because it's the games that make the money. And the games really aren't selling that much better than their Xbox 360/PS3 counterparts

It's been reported that Nintendo earns $13 to $79 profit on each Wii sold. That means Nintendo has earned an average of $1 billion in profit so far just from the Wii console alone. Factor in software licensing and first-party sales and it becomes obvious Nintendo is making tons of money.

Regarding game sales, Rayman Raving Rabbids sold much better on the Wii than it did on the Xbox 360. Also, Guitar Hero III is still selling very well on the Wii vs. the competing consoles.

Anyway, as I've posted before, first-party games have outsold third-party games on every Nintendo console ever made. The Wii is no different. Some people are acting like this is the first time this has happened.


Unwind, you're right that it's the games that make the money. But that is less important when you're pulling a decent profit margin on every system sold, something Microsoft and Sony can't claim.

Exactly. Microsoft and Sony lose money on each game console sold, not to mention Microsoft's $1 billion in losses regarding the Xbox 360 red-ring-of-death repairs.

[Rob2600]

I don't think, two years from now, Wii Sports will be good enough to have everyone orgasming for joy when they play it. Especially when games on the 360 and PS3 will most likely shit so badly on the Wii in the graphics category that it'll be hard NOT to notice the difference.

Some people have been claiming this since late 2006. "The Wii's graphics are horrible. Nobody will buy it. People will want the far superior Xbox 360 or PlayStation 3 instead."

Really? It's eighteen months later and this still hasn't come true. Why? Because most people aren't graphics fiends. To most people, the Wii's graphics are fine.

[mregashu]

I don't think, two years from now, Wii Sports will be good enough to have everyone orgasming for joy when they play it. Especially when games on the 360 and PS3 will most likely shit so badly on the Wii in the graphics category that it'll be hard NOT to notice the difference.

This is assuming the graphics on the 360 and PS3 will improve while the Wii's will remain the same. If the programmers tap into the Wii and get full potential (like the Ps3/360 programmers will do, presumably, to achieve these amazing graphics in two years), there is no reason not to assume the Wii can't put out graphics on a level similar to those of early 360 releases or better.

[Rob2600]

This is assuming the graphics on the 360 and PS3 will improve while the Wii's will remain the same. If the programmers tap into the Wii and get full potential (like the Ps3/360 programmers will do, presumably, to achieve these amazing graphics in two years), there is no reason not to assume the Wii can't put out graphics on a level similar to those of early 360 releases or better.

Excellent point. Supposedly, Factor 5 is going to blow us all away with the graphics in its secret game being released later this year.

IGN - Update: Factor 5 Wii Project (http://wii.ign.com/articles/851/851287p1.html)

Factor 5 president Julian Eggebrecht:

"We're almost done with the engine and it does everything that the PS3 did and then some, quite frankly.

Whatever we're working on will at least blow you away in a lot of the technical aspects. We're really trying to do everything to squeeze the maximum out of the Wii.

I'm also hoping we're going to pay respect to what the console is all about, which is the innovation in terms of controls, in terms of accessibility, new experiences, things like that. We're really, really trying hard. I hope it's going to pay off."

[carlcarlson]

I don't want to get in this because you all seem to have a lot of facts that I don't. For what it's worth though, I only know one person with a Wii, and he only owns Wii Sports. Wii Sports is the reason he bought it, and it's the only reason he keeps it. He is not a "gamer", he just enjoys jumping around with the game. He and his girlfriend have rented a bunch of other games, and none of them have interested them past a night of casual fun. The reason I bring this to the table is that the Wii is known as the casual gamer's console, and I think this is probably a good example of what unwind is trying to say. Sure, people that are more into games will go a little deeper and pick up Galaxy or Brawl, but that's probably about it.

[Rob2600]

I only know one person with a Wii, and he only owns Wii Sports. Wii Sports is the reason he bought it, and it's the only reason he keeps it. ... Sure, people that are more into games will go a little deeper and pick up Galaxy or Brawl, but that's probably about it.

Yes, many people who own a Wii only own one or two games.

However, as some of us have pointed out, Wii Sports, Wii Play, Super Mario Galaxy, and Super Smash Bros. Brawl aren't the only Wii games that are selling well. Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games, Mario Kart Wii, Wii Fit, and Guitar Hero III are still going strong.

You make it seem like only a few Wii games are worth buying, which isn't true.

[j_factor]

You know what system had a higher attach rate, and higher game ratings on average than the competition? Dreamcast. Just saying.

[unwinddesign]

You know what system had a higher attach rate, and higher game ratings on average than the competition? Dreamcast. Just saying.

...and it sold rapidly, and sold well. For Sega to survive, though, it needed to be a hit if Playstation proportions...nearly instantaneously. If you look at their business plan, they were flat out fuckin' retarded with how long they took to axe the console. The other piece was, the Japanese didn't latch on to as well as we did over here in the USA. And Sega is a Japanese company...draw your conclusions from that whole mess.

Basically, that's an apples to oranges comparison.


It's been reported that Nintendo earns $13 to $79 profit on each Wii sold. That means Nintendo has earned an average of $1 billion in profit so far just from the Wii console alone. Factor in software licensing and first-party sales and it becomes obvious Nintendo is making tons of money.

Regarding game sales, Rayman Raving Rabbids sold much better on the Wii than it did on the Xbox 360. Also, Guitar Hero III is still selling very well on the Wii vs. the competing consoles.

Anyway, as I've posted before, first-party games have outsold third-party games on every Nintendo console ever made. The Wii is no different. Some people are acting like this is the first time this has happened.
Some people have been claiming this since late 2006. "The Wii's graphics are horrible. Nobody will buy it. People will want the far superior Xbox 360 or PlayStation 3 instead."

Really? It's eighteen months later and this still hasn't come true. Why? Because most people aren't graphics fiends. To most people, the Wii's graphics are fine.

Read my post -- I mention those numbers. My argument isn't whether Nintendo is hurting for cash. They aren't. They could be making more, which is part of my point, but the bigger overall picture is that they might not be able to sustain overall growth.

As the 360/PS3 drop in price and become more attractive (you have to remember that $350/$400 is the most a major system has ever sold for -- excluding the Saturn and 3DO, which were both colossal failures), the Wii's weak collection of 3rd party games and no longer novel controls may not cut the mustard for people any more. A lot of people are tempted to buy the Wii because it's cheap, but when you can get a Premium 360 for $250 or a Wii for $250, which are most people gonna choose at the end of the day? The main market for games still is younger people ages 16 - 25, who have disposable income. They just don't have all the income needed to buy a 360 + a billion games/HDTV etc. Yet. Remember that Nintendo is pandering to the last generation with all their tech -- 480p, Xbox quality graphics. As HD and Broadband technology matures, the PS3 and Xbox 360 are better set for the future, and may well make the Wii look decidedly "last-gen" in comparison. The tech inside the Wii is not good enough to compete with the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3. Saying otherwise is just kidding yourself. Games will look good, but games designed ground up for the PS3? They'll start to look friggin' incredible. This is no PS2 to Xbox 1 comparison. This is Dreamcast to PS1 type of stuff. Coupled with deep pockets from two companies who have market caps that dwarf Nintendo's, and can fight the good fight for the long haul -- unlike Sega.

At the end of the day, time will tell the story, but I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo ends up in second (or even third) after all this dust clears. And Rayman Raving Rabids obviously outsold the Xbox 360 for numerous reasons, which I'll bullet:

1. It was a Wii launch title, and was bundled with many Wii systems.
2. It was built from the ground up to use the Wii's remote and unique functions.
3. It caters to the audience of the Wii -- young children, casual gamers, multi-player lovers.
4. There are way, way better games available on the Xbox 360 than Rayman Raving Rabbids.
5. The Xbox core demographic -- teenage/early twenties males -- think that stuff like RRR is gay or fruity [for better or for worse], and would not be caught dead playing it or spending $40 - $60 on it.

[j_factor]

...and it sold rapidly, and sold well. For Sega to survive, though, it needed to be a hit if Playstation proportions...nearly instantaneously. If you look at their business plan, they were flat out fuckin' retarded with how long they took to axe the console. The other piece was, the Japanese didn't latch on to as well as we did over here in the USA. And Sega is a Japanese company...draw your conclusions from that whole mess.

Basically, that's an apples to oranges comparison.

Okay, yeah, I don't really want to turn this into a Dreamcast topic, as I could go on for days about what went wrong with it. Yes, it was an apples to oranges comparison, but you know what? Oranges suck. My only point was that statistics such as average review scores are of footnote-level importance (to the topic at hand). Yes, the 360 has better-reviewed games than the Wii. But what does that have to do with the price of cheese in France?


As the 360/PS3 drop in price and become more attractive (you have to remember that $350/$400 is the most a major system has ever sold for -- excluding the Saturn and 3DO, which were both colossal failures), the Wii's weak collection of 3rd party games and no longer novel controls may not cut the mustard for people any more.

360 and PS3 have already dropped in price significantly and become more attractive (IMO). Why haven't we seen any signs of that effect yet?


A lot of people are tempted to buy the Wii because it's cheap, but when you can get a Premium 360 for $250 or a Wii for $250, which are most people gonna choose at the end of the day? The main market for games still is younger people ages 16 - 25, who have disposable income. They just don't have all the income needed to buy a 360 + a billion games/HDTV etc. Yet. Remember that Nintendo is pandering to the last generation with all their tech -- 480p, Xbox quality graphics. As HD and Broadband technology matures, the PS3 and Xbox 360 are better set for the future, and may well make the Wii look decidedly "last-gen" in comparison.

I think they already make the Wii look decidedly last-gen, and I don't think that will change significantly (better or worse) over the next few years.


The tech inside the Wii is not good enough to compete with the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3. Saying otherwise is just kidding yourself. Games will look good, but games designed ground up for the PS3? They'll start to look friggin' incredible. This is no PS2 to Xbox 1 comparison. This is Dreamcast to PS1 type of stuff.

Agreed. But the tech inside the Wii isn't even meant to compete with 360 and PS3. That's not in the design of the system. Just like how the Game Boy and GBC were low-tech on purpose (although for much different reasons).

Graphics simply aren't the #1 concern of that many people, and particularly, the importance of graphics has declined in recent years. Personally, when Xbox 360 came out, I didn't see the need to rush into the next generation, when the current generation was doing just fine. It was different when Dreamcast came out and relieved us of the unattractiveness generally inherent in PSX/Saturn/N64 graphics; there was nothing especially "wrong" with Xbox graphics that the system needed replacing so quickly. I wasn't that terribly impressed with the improved graphics that the 360 offered, either. And really, I'm still not. The difference is certainly significant, but it matters less. The phrase "diminishing returns" rings very true IMO.

In other words, Wii is decidedly last-gen, but for the first time, last-gen isn't so bad.


At the end of the day, time will tell the story, but I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo ends up in second (or even third) after all this dust clears.

I would. Only once has the market leader ever changed mid-generation, and that was with the Genesis/SNES, and only in the US, and there was never a time when one outsold the other by a factor of 3 to 1.

All the Wii doubters keep moving their goalposts. "It'll bomb on release!" became "sales will quickly level off", which then morphed into "the fad won't last much longer", and now it's "eventually, it'll end up in second". It's the #1 system. Get over it.

[josekortez]

Yeah, the people who buy Wii Play look at it and the controller and think they're getting a bargain. I thought that when I picked it up this month. Too bad they aren't, since Wii Play is one of the worst collection of "games" I've ever had the misfortune of playing. Might as well flush the $10 or wipe your ass with it, since those two activities are vastly more fun.

Billiards is worth the $10, but yes, the others are horribly tough to control or just stupid like the bubble popping game.

[gepeto]

One thing for certian Price did matter in the next gen race. That being said I wonder who is buying all the wii's.

I still believe in my heart that nintendo is restricting the supply flow. It has been almost 2 years and I have never seen a peoduct still hard to get after 2 yrs. There is no justification for that. I have seen some of hard to get stuff released but nothing this rediculous. Also the mfg cost is probably peanuts compared to the other machines.

I guess as long as they seem hard to get people will keep thinking it is the machine to have.

[swlovinist]

I know that there is alot of crap being thrown about the Wii. Numbers speak for themselves, it is kicking the crap out of its competition. Yes it has sub par games, but so does every sucessuful console. There is more to the system than bowling. I have about 10 games for mine, and plan on buying more.

As for Wii Play, I like playing it with my wife. We love to play the fishing game together. I enjoy playing the billards game as well. The bottom line is that the from the perspective of a young-semi young single male gamer...I can see that the Wii is so-so.

The truth of the matter is that the Wii was not made for that population. If it was, then it would be in third place right now. Look at the other two systems(PS3 and 360). Those systems has the market of violence, shooters, and M rated games covered very well. The problem is that they also have that image connected to their name, along with being the "hardcore gaming machines".

I have said this before, but my wife will not touch a PS3 or 360. The games she like to play are on the Wii. I am sure I could find some on the other systems, but when I ask her why she likes the Wii, she say "because it was made for gamers like me". The perspective that the Wii has a bunch of shovelware is the wrong perspective. It has games that are geared towards a different crowd that is not single young males.

I am not here to argue some things about the Wii, I am just trying to paint a different perspective of the system. I do own all three current systems, and can see why it is selling well. I dont think that Nintendo is doing a supply limitation(as they could have sold millions more).

I think part of why the Wii is selling well is not what Nintendo is doing well, but what its competition has failed to capture. The Wii is still the cheapest system out of the box by $100-$150 along with being really the best family friendly system game choice for all ages. While I like my mature shooter gaming fix like many others(COD4 espically), I also enjoy many other types of games, both casual and other. I think that the 360 and PS3 have done a sub par job on attracting new blood to get their new systems, as well as price them out of competition. As long as both systems stay above the $300 mark and continue to promote ultra violent games as their flagship titles, they will be second.

In the past every sucessful console had a family friendly franchises that sold the system. What I think has happened is that I think that those types of games and people who bought those games have been ignored long enough. I am not here to argue that the Wii has some issues with some of its titles, but I am here to say that it has its place in my own house(with a pregnant wife). I look to playing games now and in the future on it with my family.

[Zap!]

Yeah, the people who buy Wii Play look at it and the controller and think they're getting a bargain. I thought that when I picked it up this month. Too bad they aren't, since Wii Play is one of the worst collection of "games" I've ever had the misfortune of playing. Might as well flush the $10 or wipe your ass with it, since those two activities are vastly more fun.

The ping pong game alone is easily worth the $10.

[Zap!]

It still boggles my mind how well the Wii is selling. I guess a lot of people really, really like seeing a crude, armless likeness of themselves playing sports.

It's selling because a lot of us are classic gamers, and Nintendo is the only console company that has been making video games since the Golden Age of gaming.

[Zap!]

point is: they do. and when those two dry up, people go looking for the next big thing, which they think ageless franchises such as mario and zelda can fill.

while wii is flying off the shelf like its free, truth is, its NOT a gamer's console, so a lot of the main nintendo franchises arent performing to their potential, and those 4-8 games, hardly matter.

having zelda, and several others, i honestly can say i enjoyed wii sports a hell of a lot more.

Zelda is one of the best games ever, not just on the Wii. Nintendo is a true video game company, making games for 30+ years, unlike Sony or M$.

[swlovinist]

On the virtual console front, the ability to download Nintendos greatest games onto one console is pure genius. I know several people who bought a Wii just for the fact that they could play all their classic Nintendo games on one system.

[Eteric Rice]

I think Nintendo is more clever than people give them credit for. I had a theory a while back, and someone else recently poped up with the same theory on NeoGAF.

Nintendo is going backwards in terms of getting an audience. Most of the time, game companies will release their console with hardcore games to try to get their install base higher than their competion. The thing about the hardcore is that they're willing to buy more than one console, where the casual and non-gamer type people will likely only buy one.

My theory is that they're trying to get those who will buy only one console, first. These are the types of people Nintendo wants to lure into bigger gaming experiences. Sort of like going from Bejewled to Super Mario Bros, this is the reason most of their games are much friendlyer than they used to be in terms of understanding the controls.

They know they can get the hardcore audience later down the line. We're willing to buy more than one console if it has some games we want, so why compete for us right now? They're gonna grab those who only buy one, then go for the more hardcore gamers. It's almost like they're going to try to choke Sony and MS to death.

[unwinddesign]

The ping pong game alone is easily worth the $10.

The ping pong game doesn't even work correctly. How the hell is it worth a nickel, let alone ten dollars? Putting that ten dollars towards a real ping pong table would be an infinitely superior decision. The compilation is worse than the Rocky and Bullwinkle game for Xbox 360 arcade, which one would hope (and think) was impossible. Evidently, it isn't.

@j_factor: You keep going on and on about who the paradigm has shifted and that graphics/last-gen doesn't matter any more, and then completely contradict yourself with the fact that you say a console switch mid-gen has only happened once. Let's throw history out the window when it's in MS/Sony's corner, but bring it back when it's in Nintendo's? The review scores might not mean much now, but eventually people will get sick of playing the same thing repackaged over and over again on the Wii (as they did with the series of GTA clones in the PS2 generation). There are only so many motion control mini game packages and Wii sports knock offs that you can buy. I don't see where this growth is coming from that is sustaining a whopping 700,000 in sales.The American public and world at large has already proved itself fickle with many hot products before and I'm not seeing enough DEPTH on the Wii to promote this sort of growth. I'm speaking as a Wii owner curious about the future, as I see few AAA titles on the horizon, and very few interesting games being released. It seems like everyone is remaking variants of Wii Sports or some group of minigames for like $30, or a movie based piece of shovelware. For all the innovation Nintendo has told us about, the Wii has become host to a cascade of mindless, cheap, generic rip-offs, perhaps moreso than any system in recent memory.

And, also, the PS3's sales have gone way up with the price drop, and the Xbox 360 saw a sales pop when its price dropped as well. $350 - $400 is not an attractive price in what the media has deemed to be a recessionary/ailing economy. $250 plus cheaper games is much, much more palatable to swallow. And when have I ever mentioned that the Wii would suck on release, would die out because of being a fad, or some other such nonsense? I haven't. I'm offering up empirical data, and an opinion. Not some fanboy laced bullshit or diatribe against how Nintendo has ruined gaming.

Of course, it's entirely possible that the Wii is so revolutionary that it has completely shifted the video game business out of its "story driven" and "free-roaming GTA clone" mode, which wouldn't entirely be a bad thing. Who knows. Obviously, it's whipping some serious ass right now. But there's still a lot of time to go and a lot of killer apps to be released in the next few years before Sony and Microsoft concede the race.

[Rob2600]

@j_factor: You keep going on and on about who the paradigm has shifted and that graphics/last-gen doesn't matter any more, and then completely contradict yourself with the fact that you say a console switch mid-gen has only happened once.

This doesn't make sense. Jfactor's point was good. Last-gen graphics are so good that next-gen graphics aren't as big a deal as they used to be. That's why most people are fine with the graphics in most Wii games.

[j_factor]

@j_factor: You keep going on and on about who the paradigm has shifted and that graphics/last-gen doesn't matter any more, and then completely contradict yourself with the fact that you say a console switch mid-gen has only happened once. Let's throw history out the window when it's in MS/Sony's corner, but bring it back when it's in Nintendo's?

No no. It has nothing to do with a paradigm shift. What I'm saying is that graphics have finally progressed to a level where further progression doesn't make as much of a difference as it did. We're not yet to the point where it doesn't matter at all, but we're definitely "over the hump" where it matters less.

My point about the mid-gen switch is that once a console has shown itself to be way out ahead, it stays secure in that position. I mean, there was a period of time in 2004 when Xbox outsold PS2. But even when that was happening, nobody had any doom and gloom predictions about the PS2, or question its continued firm status as market leader.


The review scores might not mean much now, but eventually people will get sick of playing the same thing repackaged over and over again on the Wii (as they did with the series of GTA clones in the PS2 generation). There are only so many motion control mini game packages and Wii sports knock offs that you can buy.

The Wii has plenty of other games, and will continue to do so. Minigame collections aren't some monolithic genre on the Wii. This isn't the Neo Geo with fighting games.


I don't see where this growth is coming from that is sustaining a whopping 700,000 in sales.The American public and world at large has already proved itself fickle with many hot products before and I'm not seeing enough DEPTH on the Wii to promote this sort of growth.

Well of course it's not going to last forever. But when a product is this "hot", it usually stays so for at least a few years. And a console only needs to be "hot" for like 4 years, then slowly wind down after that. I mean, PS2 wasn't all that "hot" in 2004 anymore, was it? It ain't "hot" now, is it? It was basically a three-year fad! And yet, I think overall, that system did pretty okay.

Other big (non-gaming) fads like Cabbage Patch Dolls kept their "fad" status for years.


I'm speaking as a Wii owner curious about the future, as I see few AAA titles on the horizon, and very few interesting games being released. It seems like everyone is remaking variants of Wii Sports or some group of minigames for like $30, or a movie based piece of shovelware. For all the innovation Nintendo has told us about, the Wii has become host to a cascade of mindless, cheap, generic rip-offs, perhaps moreso than any system in recent memory.

Once again, there are all sorts of other games coming out. Perhaps you're just not paying attention to them. I certainly don't consider Sam & Max Season 1, Samba de Amigo, MadWorld, de Blob, Fragile, and so on and so forth to be mindless, cheap, generic rip-offs. At least they don't appear to be IMO.


And, also, the PS3's sales have gone way up with the price drop, and the Xbox 360 saw a sales pop when its price dropped as well.

The PS3 went "way up" to 200k from 100k. Certainly respectable, but not approaching the Wii. I don't recall much of a 360 sales pop with its price drop -- the only sales spike I remember was with the release of Halo 3.


$350 - $400 is not an attractive price in what the media has deemed to be a recessionary/ailing economy. $250 plus cheaper games is much, much more palatable to swallow.

Can't you get a 360 for $279? Why isn't that selling better?


And when have I ever mentioned that the Wii would suck on release, would die out because of being a fad, or some other such nonsense? I haven't. I'm offering up empirical data, and an opinion. Not some fanboy laced bullshit or diatribe against how Nintendo has ruined gaming.

Eh, that part wasn't really directed at you personally. I just see a pattern of people finding new ways to predict failure for the Wii. So far it hasn't lived up to any such predictions, and it shows no signs of doing so anytime soon. It seems like there's just no possible way to convince people that the system is here to stay. It could sell 3 million units a week and people would still call it a passing fad or something.

[unwinddesign]

The $279 360 is pretty much useless, which is why it doesn't sell. You need the hard drive, and Microsoft's emphasis on Live, content downloads et al. makes that abundantly clear to everyone. Additionally, how is 100,000 to 200,000 not a big jump in sales? That's a 100% increase! Sony's goal was to double sales, and that's exactly what they did. Given that the PS3 is still $400 -- a high price to pay for many -- I'd say that's impressive. And the 360 sold an additional 100,000 the month of the price cut (which occurred early in August '07), jumping from 170 [in July] to 270 thousand units sold (a 58% increase). With the launch of Halo 3 in September, sales were over 500,000 [no doubt more than a few people were influenced by the extra $50 off as well]. So, really, not bad. And supports my point that these consoles are still waaaaaaaaay too expensive for the average John Q. Public (re: not teenager or young adult with vast sums of money to blow on XBL Gold/Elite + all the trimmings).

Looking at Wikipedia's list, the *vast* majority of games coming out for the Wii are pretty much generic. Obviously there will be good ones in there, and there will be oddball unique titles. I just said there aren't many. And there really aren't that many good, solid, unique titles coming out for it. I say this as a Wii owner who is disappointed in the outlook of the system, not as someone looking to malign the games or turn a blind eye to good ones. They simply aren't going to be coming in droves this year. Opinions differ, obviously, on what "good" and "solid" et al. mean, but at the end of the day, most of that stuff is not on par with what has already been released by Nintendo (Super Mario Galaxy, Zelda: TP, MP3 etc.) or other third parties (Zack and Wiki, No More Heroes). Thus, people might be tempted this holiday season [which is when the cash flows like wine] by offerings on other systems, coupled with a price drop or nice pack-in game (MGS4 anyone?). Nintendo is leaving itself open. But maybe they have enough momentum and their market is so different that they won't be interested in stuff like Gears of War 2 etc. They have a big lead and they have the public, media and just about everyone else on their side. So yeah, all signs point to them winning -- you're right. Yes, I'm playing devil's advocate here, and yes, the chances of me being right are slimmer than you being right (and yes, you can shout "I told you so" from the rooftops in the likely event that the Wii brings home the bacon and comes in first place). But I think there's some doubt, some flaws -- if you will -- in the Wii's armor that can be exploited, unlike when the PS1/PS2 and even the SNES (once it took the lead) so soundly whooped the living bejesus out of the competition and kept doing so mercilessly year after year.

@rob2600: I'm hardly a graphics whore, but I wouldn't say say that last-gen graphics are "so good" that they aren't as big of a deal. I think it's more a factor that many normal, non-techy people don't have the equipment to really unlock the potential of the PS3/360...yet. A 360 looks a lot like Wii quality on an SD TV. Pump it through an HDTV, though, and it becomes really clear that something like Gears or Motorstorm is just so much more "holy shit!" than a game like Zelda: TP (which, in its own right is a beautiful game...with tons of aliasing issues, unfortunately). I think that, perhaps you are right in the fact that to the average person [apparently a good portion of Nintendo's audience -- kudos to them] who rarely played/saw games before they bought a Wii, it wouldn't matter. They probably wouldn't give a rat's ass at all.

...in any event, I think it's best that I bow out of this argument at this juncture, seeing as how I think we've said all that can be said on the topic at this point in time. I've pulled enough numbers off the internet the past few hours to write a research paper on the subject...

[zektor]

I completely agree with the graphics portion of your statement. I still think the Dreamcast's graphics are fantastic. It may have something to do with the fact that I still have a standard def TV, or probably more due to the fact that I have been gaming since the dawn of the era. I *know* the PS3 and 360 are superior in the graphics department, but the Wii looks amazing to me as well. So does the PS2. The average gamer (especially the non-gamer looking into the Wii) would be more than satisfied with the capabilities of the Wii. I wouldn't call myself the average gamer, and I am completely satisfied personally.

As always however, it is not the graphics that make the system, it is the games. Which is why I still love to play 2600 Activision titles!

[Rob2600]

Looking at Wikipedia's list, the *vast* majority of games coming out for the Wii are pretty much generic.

Can't the same be said for the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 as well? For every console, there will always be a bunch of average, generic games with a few A+ games mixed in once in a while.

[Melf]

I'm still waiting for that deluge of major third party exclusives to hit the Wii. First it was a lack of developer confidence, then it was that they were all taken by surprise by its success, and the last excuse was that "good games take time to develop." What's the reason now?

The fact is, the only games you're going to see sell any major numbers on the Wii are made by Nintendo. That's why 3rd parties are still using it as a repository for shovelware and PS2 ports - a year and a half after its release. Only 4 out of the top 20 of that Wikipedia list weren't published by Nintendo, and two of those were multi-platform.

The truth is, you buy a Wii for Nintendo games, the same reason as with the last two hardware cycles. You don't buy one for the 3rd party games.


Minigame collections aren't some monolithic genre on the Wii. This isn't the Neo Geo with fighting games.

The two best-selling titles on that list and almost half of the top twenty are all mini game collections.

Actually, looking at that list again convinces me that most Wii owners have no taste. when Wii Play outsells Super Mario Galaxy almost two to one, I lose faith in humanity. If people just want the fucking controller, then why not just buy it? I can't stand to see that turd of a disc outselling the Wii's best game.

[j_factor]

The truth is, you buy a Wii for Nintendo games, the same reason as with the last two hardware cycles. You don't buy one for the 3rd party games.

*shrug* When I bought a Wii, at the time it was mainly for Red Steel and Elebits. My most played Wii game recently has been House of the Dead 2 & 3. I've never been the biggest Nintendo fan.


Actually, looking at that list again convinces me that most Wii owners have no taste.

This part, I agree with.