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monkeychemist
06-16-2008, 03:57 PM
Hey everyone,

Well, I am getting desperate for a PS3. Problem is, I do not have the cash to shell out for it. So...I was looking online for those PS3 giveaways but I am scared that they are scams. Has anyone in DP successfully gotten something like that? Any experiences good or bad to share?

Thank you!

Nitrosport
06-16-2008, 04:08 PM
From what I understand, there is one site that is suppost to be legit. I saw it on the news the other day but don't remember what it was. Supposedly it works as long as you register with one sponser. You have to make sure you cancel the subscription before a certain time so they wont charge you.

It seems like a huge headache so I never tried it. Most of the sites are obvious scams though.

norkusa
06-16-2008, 04:14 PM
I did the free iPod one a while back. What you basically have to do is get 5 or 6 people to sign up for these free trial offers on their site (like Blockbuster.com, Ancestory.com, etc, etc.) and they send you your stuff once all the requirements are met.

Most of them are legit, but it's not easy to get random strangers to sign up for these offers. What I had to do was bribe people with stuff from my Trade pile.


I did mine thru Gratis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratis_Internet

Kitsune Sniper
06-16-2008, 04:19 PM
I must commend you for actually -asking- about this! I thought this was going to be a spam post or something.

Truth be told, I've been curious about these sorts of offers as well, but not living in the US kinda gets in the way. :P I'm about $4 away from a $25 Gamestop gift card through eRewards, though, so...

monkeychemist
06-16-2008, 04:28 PM
Don't worry, I like this place too much to wreck my membership by spamming haha.

wow you have gamestop on your eRewards? I have like 40 bucks there now and nothing really interesting to get. It's all airline miles and magazine subscriptions.

Well, I don't like going the route of having friends sign up because that will be the quickest way to loose some haha. I found a few sites that ask you to sign up for 2 silver, 2 gold and 6 platinum offers. That seems manageable. I signed up under bogus info to look at what you have to sign up for and it seems to be all in the $5-15 range. If I can get this PS3 under $100 then I'll be happy.

MrSparkle
06-16-2008, 04:34 PM
Almost all of them are semi legit, if you manage to fulfill the requirements you get the item. Of course its in their best interest to make it nigh impossible to actually fulfill the requirements. But instead of stonewalling you off the bat they let you do a few easy things first so they get some benefit and you just get frustrated and spammed forever for trying.

My advice would be to start a get rich quick infomercial to raise money for a ps3 youll have an easier time creating and marketing a product to fun this than you will redeeming your "FREE!" playstation 3.

Kitsune Sniper
06-16-2008, 04:35 PM
Don't worry, I like this place too much to wreck my membership by spamming haha.

wow you have gamestop on your eRewards? I have like 40 bucks there now and nothing really interesting to get. It's all airline miles and magazine subscriptions.

Well, I don't like going the route of having friends sign up because that will be the quickest way to loose some haha. I found a few sites that ask you to sign up for 2 silver, 2 gold and 6 platinum offers. That seems manageable. I signed up under bogus info to look at what you have to sign up for and it seems to be all in the $5-15 range. If I can get this PS3 under $100 then I'll be happy.

Yeah, I have Gamestop. A friend of mine already got the $25 gift card, and he asked me to order something for him a few weeks ago, so I -know- it's legit.

Now if only I could get four more freakin' bucks so I could ditch that thing...

monkeychemist
06-16-2008, 04:40 PM
Yeah, I have Gamestop. A friend of mine already got the $25 gift card, and he asked me to order something for him a few weeks ago, so I -know- it's legit.

Now if only I could get four more freakin' bucks so I could ditch that thing...


If I could trade I would give you 4 eRewards bucks... My rewards are a bit weak. I have subscribed to a couple of magazines and redeemed restaurants $5 off certificates. eRewards is good because it is free and legit but it is by invitation only. I have NO idea how I got the invite... actually, it might have been through a free EGM subscription that someone tip me off on this forum.

Frankie_Says_Relax
06-16-2008, 05:05 PM
Every single one of those sites are pyramid schemes.

All of them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme

Is it impossible to get the items that they're offering? No.

Is the amount of work worth the monitary value of the item offered? Absolutely not.

Of course I use "work" in the loosest possible sense of the word ... it's really just doing exponential pyramid scamming for the site owners.

The number of sites you must sign up for that include free TRIAL periods for services that if not monitored and cancelled become PAY services (Everybody remembers Columbia House 12 CDs for a penny, right? Ever try to CANCEL one of those offers?) and/or the number of OTHER people you must coax into joining and doing the same becomes painfully obvious almost immediately after signing up. And once you've done one or two of the trial offers, even if you quit, the site owner reaps ALL of the financial gains/benefits.

If you really want a PS3 ... there are other legitimate ways of earning money ... namely a job.

carlcarlson
06-16-2008, 05:36 PM
If you really want a PS3 ... there are other legitimate ways of earning money ... namely a job.

Or plasma! You got blood? BAM!!! You've got a Playstation 3!

monkeychemist
06-16-2008, 05:39 PM
If you really want a PS3 ... there are other legitimate ways of earning money ... namely a job.

I very much agree with your idea. However, I go to school full time, do 20 hours of research, TA 20 hours and work on the side about 16 hours a week. I have to say that I pretty tapped out in that aspect. We need it to pay for the mortgage and living expenses for the family. My wife is doing pretty much the same thing. It would be VERY difficult for me to justify $600... well $660 with a game...that is why I am resorting to these tactics. I can always sell $100 worth of video games, so if that + a lot of hassle buys me a PS3 than I am all for it. haha

Frankie_Says_Relax
06-16-2008, 05:47 PM
I very much agree with your idea. However, I go to school full time, do 20 hours of research, TA 20 hours and work on the side about 16 hours a week. I have to say that I pretty tapped out in that aspect. We need it to pay for the mortgage and living expenses for the family. My wife is doing pretty much the same thing. It would be VERY difficult for me to justify $600... well $660 with a game...that is why I am resorting to these tactics. I can always sell $100 worth of video games, so if that + a lot of hassle buys me a PS3 than I am all for it. haha

With all of those stresses, I'm surprised that you'd want to have to go through the daily trouble of finding places (to pester people into signing up for a website and trial period offers) that won't ban you for having links on threads about stuff like that.

There are other free web ventures that can actually net you cash.

Are you creative? Open a free CafePress store and make clever t-shirts.

Good at finding bargains/rare items? Garage sale/thrift store shop and do some eBay selling.

Seriously ... you sound too smart to be wasting your time on one of those other sites.

DefaultGen
06-16-2008, 05:58 PM
Good at finding bargains/rare items? Garage sale/thrift store shop and do some eBay selling.

I would like to learn how to be good at finding rare items! :(

The Shawn
06-16-2008, 05:59 PM
Yeah man, seriously. I remember when my mom (Housewife for life-no job,coupon queen) first got the internet. All these "pop-ups" I think she signed up for all of them. Pretty soon she was spamming everyone she knew and didn't know just to get something for "free". Not only that but she wasn't exactly computer savy and her credit cards starting getting billed without her understanding why.

Well you don't give out your personal information without something bad happening in my experience. Anyway's after about 6 months of that my Father threw the computer in the trash.

Don't really know if it's related to your situation or not, but it's as close as I can communicate to you that...

Nothings free.

Kitsune Sniper
06-16-2008, 06:12 PM
There are other free web ventures that can actually net you cash.

Are you creative? Open a free CafePress store and make clever t-shirts.

Good at finding bargains/rare items? Garage sale/thrift store shop and do some eBay selling.

Seriously ... you sound too smart to be wasting your time on one of those other sites.

But Cafepress sites get ripped off ALL THE TIME. It really sucks. :\

On the other hand, I'm the perfect example of an eBay seller that makes a living outta flea market purchases. :)

monkeychemist
06-16-2008, 06:21 PM
yea, I guess ebay or gamegavel seems like the way of getting this. I just have to make it a point to check out garage sales. The flea markets around here are overpriced. Any tips on finding good garage sales? It seems like people sell everything but video games here.

Kitsune Sniper
06-16-2008, 06:25 PM
I don't just sell games. Whenever I find something that catches my attention I look up info on it, and if it's worth buying for reselling, I do so.

But I've been at this for more than three years. A lot of sellers here know me and give me discounts... it's not easy at first, but just give it time.

monkeychemist
06-16-2008, 06:27 PM
haha, I sent emails to several sites asking if the program includes needing to refer people and all of the emails....ALL were failure notices. haha what a joke

ThoughtBomb
06-16-2008, 06:39 PM
I can't vouch for any of those afformentioned sites and such, however I'd like to say that I was very iffy about coughing up for a PS3 myself, which I've had for about a month now. You can nab a PS3 at around the 400 mark like I did, if you're willing to buy used, via ebay or amazon; any legit company. Dunno if you spent your recession check yet, but that could be a very big chunk of it off the price! Plus you need to ask yourself if backward compatibility is of any importance to you. You may be able to find a 20gb PS3 out there for probably even less that 400! Research and research some more, save some money here and there, 20 here 10 there, so forth and so on, eventually you'll have one.

Alfador
06-16-2008, 07:01 PM
I did the iPod one like 4 years ago kinda like the silver gold platinum offer thing you mentioned, they didn't send me an iPod but I got a check for $400 instead, so I was very happy, especially since all the offers only cost me about $25.

MrSparkle
06-16-2008, 07:47 PM
ooh yea good call take your stimulus check and stimulate the economy. My plan was originally to blow the whole check on games... then my engine block cracked :(. haha oh well theres always next recession.

Sudo
06-16-2008, 09:55 PM
I very much agree with your idea. However, I go to school full time, do 20 hours of research, TA 20 hours and work on the side about 16 hours a week. I have to say that I pretty tapped out in that aspect. We need it to pay for the mortgage and living expenses for the family. My wife is doing pretty much the same thing. It would be VERY difficult for me to justify $600... well $660 with a game...that is why I am resorting to these tactics. I can always sell $100 worth of video games, so if that + a lot of hassle buys me a PS3 than I am all for it. haha

You do realize that a 40GB PS3 is only $400, right? The MGS 4 bundle with a Dual Shock 3, 80GB system and the game is $500.

mnbren05
06-16-2008, 10:15 PM
Two years ago I did one of the online offers for a free Ipod Nano. I did all my offers (12 in all) cost about $15 after shipping for some of them, and then I had 2 of the 4 needed people sign up under me. Then I get an email one day stating that "they were done with their promotions (reached their limit) and they were closing". They sent me money via PayPal that I had acquired for having people sign up and complete their offers. I got $25. So I wasted approx. 1 month of my life to make $10. Trust me, its so much easier just to pick up a system of Ebay and you don't feel like your being ripped off.

Icarus Moonsight
06-17-2008, 01:04 AM
I go to school full time, do 20 hours of research, TA 20 hours and work on the side about 16 hours a week.

I didn't see "Window-shop/price next-gen consoles" on that schedule... ;) I'd think he's a little too busy to bother keeping up with the price cuts. You got to sleep sometime, right?

Frankie_Says_Relax
06-17-2008, 01:18 AM
But Cafepress sites get ripped off ALL THE TIME. It really sucks. :\

On the other hand, I'm the perfect example of an eBay seller that makes a living outta flea market purchases. :)

I make a few hundred a year off my CafePress store. Not a big deal, spaced out the checks are usually about $40-$50 every 2-3 months...but for years I used the "free" site and since I've switched over to the pay version, I haven't made any more or less really.

There's definitely money to be made on CafePress, or Zazzle, or any print-to-order sites, and there's no scamming or pyramid work going on. Just people buying your stuff, made to order.

As far as stuff getting "ripped off", I watermark my designs, which helps ... and if people really want to rip them off to use on their CafePress stores ... well, they're probably not really "stealing" my customers because their stores are probably full of shoddy ripped-off designs.

monkeychemist
06-17-2008, 06:31 AM
I didn't see "Window-shop/price next-gen consoles" on that schedule... ;) I'd think he's a little too busy to bother keeping up with the price cuts. You got to sleep sometime, right?

haha you are right...I did miss that $200 price cut it seems. I'm gonna look closely on that MGS4 bundle. That sounds nice

Kitsune Sniper
06-17-2008, 01:00 PM
I make a few hundred a year off my CafePress store. Not a big deal, spaced out the checks are usually about $40-$50 every 2-3 months...but for years I used the "free" site and since I've switched over to the pay version, I haven't made any more or less really.

There's definitely money to be made on CafePress, or Zazzle, or any print-to-order sites, and there's no scamming or pyramid work going on. Just people buying your stuff, made to order.

As far as stuff getting "ripped off", I watermark my designs, which helps ... and if people really want to rip them off to use on their CafePress stores ... well, they're probably not really "stealing" my customers because their stores are probably full of shoddy ripped-off designs.

Oh I didn't mean that CafePress rips you off! I know they're a legit company. I just meant other CP users, or just other people, like that Goldman moron that ripped off tons and tons of art and jokes to sell his crap on Hot Topic.

monkeychemist
06-17-2008, 01:44 PM
I am intrigued by cafepress. How do you make the T-shirts?

jb143
06-17-2008, 02:07 PM
A way I've found to pick up some extra cash is to think of anything your remotely good at and freelance it on craigslist. I've had a bit of luck with photo-editing but my biggest money maker has been configuring and installing software on peoples mame cabinets.

My wife does e-rewards and always cashes them for blockbuster couponds. Between that and the giftcards her parents always get us, we're able to rent and buy movies all the time and not pay a dime.

Neil Koch
06-17-2008, 02:33 PM
I very much agree with your idea. However, I go to school full time, do 20 hours of research, TA 20 hours and work on the side about 16 hours a week. I have to say that I pretty tapped out in that aspect. We need it to pay for the mortgage and living expenses for the family. My wife is doing pretty much the same thing. It would be VERY difficult for me to justify $600... well $660 with a game...that is why I am resorting to these tactics. I can always sell $100 worth of video games, so if that + a lot of hassle buys me a PS3 than I am all for it. haha

If you have all of those commitments, then maybe getting a PS3 at this point maybe wouldn't be the best idea. It doesn't even sound like you'd have time to play it.

From what I've seen and heard about those survey offers, it sounds like you'd probably be better off getting some sort of part time job. Maybe get one at a place like Target that gives you an employee discount, buy your PS3, and quit.

I've been doing eRewards to try and get a Gamestop gift card, but it's been pretty slow going just to get a $25 card. To get enough cards to pay off a PS3 would take several months at least.

monkeychemist
06-17-2008, 02:55 PM
If you have all of those commitments, then maybe getting a PS3 at this point maybe wouldn't be the best idea. It doesn't even sound like you'd have time to play it.

I need it for my sanity. "all work and no play make monkeychemist a dull boy"


I've been doing eRewards to try and get a Gamestop gift card, but it's been pretty slow going just to get a $25 card. To get enough cards to pay off a PS3 would take several months at least.

you are lucky to even have that. The best I can get is blockbuster free rentals or free preowned DVDs. Maybe I can request eRewards to add that reward...

unwinddesign
06-18-2008, 09:44 PM
First of all, most of these sites aren't scams. I did a lot of them back in the day. Got about $3,000 worth of "free" stuff. Now, mind you, that free stuff cost me about $2,800, so I didn't make out well in the end. This is because I am lazy and simply failed to cancel a bunch of stuff on time or send back free samples. Why? Because I was lazy. However, that being said, you can get a PS3 for a few hundred bucks. What I would do is use one of Trainn's sites, since they're legit:

http://www.yourps34free.com/ (not a referall link, btw, just the plain ol' site -- I'm out of this game!)

Make sure -- and this is important -- that you have never signed up for that site, even with a BS account, in the past. You will be put on "hold" for multiple accounts at all these sites, regardless of whether you made the other accounts in hopes of doing all the offers yourself. Do not deal with Gratis (they are shit now, they used to be the best though) or OfferCentric (all their offers become shitty expensive $50 ones when you're two referalls away from your prize)

Sign up for Blockbuster, Netflix, or some company that doesn't have to do with diet pills or some other shit. Make sure it's a company you haven't already done a free trial with or subscribe to (which might rule out BB, NFLX, Gamefly etc.), otherwise you won't receive credit or your account will potentially be put on hold. You can buy ink for your printer as one of the offers, so that might be an option that you'll get something you need out of. Don't fuck with companies you've never heard of. Seriously, don't deal with those flaky companies. I got all sorts of shit in the mail -- teeth whitening stuff, diet pills, the whole nine. Those companies will fuck you and charge you, even if you cancel, and it takes time to remove them. Again, I was lazy and didn't bother, so I didn't make much.

Step two would be to pay people or trade with people to do one of the offers. You can go to a site such as anything4free.com, but the problem there is A) most people have already done ps3s4free and all the other legit PS3 sites, and B) you'll have to do an offer first if you decide to "trade" with the other people there. And that is bad, because even if they have like 30+ feedback, you will likely get fucked and receive nothing from them in return. So try to get people here. I'd say $15 - $20 is fair for a ref. That adds up to about $160 or $200, maybe less, maybe more, but not a bad deal overall. I think it takes a total of 8 refs, plus you need to do your own offer, if you want the 80GB PS3.

The other option is to simply get a 20GB PS3, which can be had for about $300 on the 'bay and less if you really look around (craigslist, etc.)

Frankie_Says_Relax
06-18-2008, 09:55 PM
...First of all, most of these sites aren't scams. I did a lot of them back in the day. Got about $3,000 worth of "free" stuff. Now, mind you, that free stuff cost me about $2,800...

You know ... I don't really understand the point you're trying to make ...

... but the sites are scams, and you did a great job of validating that statement whether you like it or not.

What the average person is asked to do on those sites is the equivalent of working for a few weeks/months as a telemarketer for a HELL of a lot less pay/commission.

The end result is not a FREE product, it's tantamount to SLAVE LABOR, and the people at the top of the pyramid are the ones that make the MOST profit ... and laugh all the way to their off-shore bank accounts.

I'm sorry you don't see that, but I'm don't want the DP community to have the issue confused.

Nothing in this life is free.

carlcarlson
06-18-2008, 10:40 PM
You know ... I don't really understand the point you're trying to make ...

... but the sites are scams, and you did a great job of validating that statement whether you like it or not.

What the average person is asked to do on those sites is the equivalent of working for a few weeks/months as a telemarketer for a HELL of a lot less pay/commission.

The end result is not a FREE product, it's tantamount to SLAVE LABOR, and the people at the top of the pyramid are the ones that make the MOST profit ... and laugh all the way to their off-shore bank accounts.

I'm sorry you don't see that, but I'm don't want the DP community to have the issue confused.

Nothing in this life is free.

I think he was quite clear in stating that you weren't going to get something for nothing. It does take work and it probably will take some money. But I wouldn't call these sites scams because they do exactly what they claim. Complete X offers and get X referrals and pick your prize. That's what they say to do and that's exactly what it takes.

You are right though, it would be much easier just to get a part-time job for a few weeks. You know exactly what you'll have to do and how long it will take. Get a job at Wal-Mart for three weeks and then use your discount to get your system. Then quit in a blaze of glory.

Frankie_Says_Relax
06-18-2008, 11:04 PM
I think he was quite clear in stating that you weren't going to get something for nothing. It does take work and it probably will take some money. But I wouldn't call these sites scams because they do exactly what they claim. Complete X offers and get X referrals and pick your prize. That's what they say to do and that's exactly what it takes.

It's not so much the "do X things and get X prizes" that cause the knee-jerk reaction, if it was just. that. simple. then I wouldn't be harping on this ...

... it's the explanation that the only way that one can actually be successful with these types of things is to find a community of users to PAY to complete offers for you ... and even then he admits that there's a high likelihood that you WILL GET SCREWED!

Again, I'm all about taking advantage of what the internet has to offer in terms of sitting back and watching cash roll in (see free CafePress store + creativity) ... BUT - when you have to risk your own CASH (with a potential of getting screwed) in the process that's pretty much the textbook definition of a "scam".

Sure, it's not a few bricks in a PS3 box being sold at the corner of a busy intersection type "scam" ... but again, it's too much time, too much work with too much risk of cash out of one's own pocket to be worth it.

P.T. Barnum said it best - there's a sucker born every minute.

TonyTheTiger
06-18-2008, 11:11 PM
Anything of real value that you're supposedly getting for free or cheap usually ends up costing something to someone. For instance, time is money. So whatever effort you're putting forth to get the "free" gift is essentially just work. And, yes, if you do the math it's like working for $2 an hour at a normal job.

Here's the thing about pyramid schemes. They aren't called that for nothing. The free gift is not free at all. It's just not you who's paying for it.

It's a simple process.

1) Imagine if I'm running a pyramid scheme with promises of a PS3. My grab is "Get a PS3 for only $50!" I get, say, 4 people to buy into it. So now I have $200 in my pocket for doing jack shit other than making a promise. Good, worker ants. Keep it up.

2) I tell those first 4 worker ants that to get the PS3 they have to not only pay $50 but recruit 4 people. So those first 4 worker ants each get 4 worker ants of their own so now there are 16 new ants paying me $50. That's $800 more in my pocket meaning now I have $1000 in total. Again, for doing nothing.

3) Each of those 16 ants set out to recruit 4 more ants bringing in 64 new ants. Now I have $3200 more bringing my total to $4200. I can now buy the first four worker ants PS3s. At $400 a PS3 that costs me $1600. I still have a profit of $2600 though. So the first four ants "won" so to speak. Yet, I'm the real winner. I still made $2600 for doing absolutely nothing.

4) Eventually the pool of possible worker ants dries up. I cannot afford to buy everyone a PS3 because I no longer have an infinite supply of $50 rolling in. Let's say the 64 ants can only in total bring in 10 more worker ants and those ants can't get anybody. So that's only $500 more added to the $2600 I still have. I have $3100 now and know I won't make any more.

5) I can't afford to buy PS3s for the set of 16 ants the first 4 ants recruited. So I take what's left and split leaving everyone at the bottom of the pyramid out in the cold. I just made money by doing nothing beyond making a promise I didn't even intend to keep to everyone. There are many variations to this process but they all end the same way. Someone gets screwed. These non-sustainable business models are illegal for good reason.

So, really, there's an ethical component to taking part in this as well. You're more or less getting other people to pay for your PS3 and if you don't get screwed out of it, someone else will.

unwinddesign
06-18-2008, 11:59 PM
You know ... I don't really understand the point you're trying to make ...

... but the sites are scams, and you did a great job of validating that statement whether you like it or not.

What the average person is asked to do on those sites is the equivalent of working for a few weeks/months as a telemarketer for a HELL of a lot less pay/commission.

The end result is not a FREE product, it's tantamount to SLAVE LABOR, and the people at the top of the pyramid are the ones that make the MOST profit ... and laugh all the way to their off-shore bank accounts.

I'm sorry you don't see that, but I'm don't want the DP community to have the issue confused.

Nothing in this life is free.

It's quite possible to get stuff completely for free. My friend got a PSP for free with my help. My other friend got an Xbox 360 for free with my help as well. $0 cash dollars exchanged. I outlined the easiest and quickest way for monkey_chemist to do it. For like $150, maybe a week or two of his time if he is *really* intent (I mean seriously going after this shit), and he has a PS3. Much easier than a part-time job. No job app, no training, no commute, no schedule...nothing. It's much more lucrative than working for $2 an hour, or even $10, provided you only DO 1 or 2 sites. You try to make a fortune off of it, it doesn't work (although it was acceptable at the time to me, being 16). I don't care about the ethics about it or being some pawn in some scheme. In actuality, having talked to the owners of some of these sites, they are nice, regular people trying to make a living. There are much worse things to be a part of, and so long as he knows that it's going to cost him $150 to $200 (which he said would be acceptable -- at least $100 would be, don't know if he's willing to go further), then go for it.

The harder way of doing things, ACTUALLY FOR FREE, is to find clever ways to get people to sign up under you. Ask friends to do it as a favor, if they owe you like $5 or $10 for lunch. Ask co-workers to do it if you'll walk the dog. Is it monetarily free? Yes. Is it technically free? No. But nothing ever is, and if you're going to get all uppity and mince words, I don't know what to tell you -- I know that as well as anyone. If your definition of having to risk cash to get reward is a "scam," then I have news for you. STOCK MARKET: SCAM! EBAY: SCAM! OPENING A RETAIL ESTABLISHMENT: SCAM. OPENING A SMALL BUSINESS: SCAM! There's risk in everything that you do, and, by the way, I said *traders* on anything4free.com, a FORUM like this one (except dedicated to people who love semi-free shit), would screw you on the site (not most of them, but there are a fair share of assholes out there), not the trainn site itself. I recommended him the best site -- believe me, I know firsthand that there are a metric asston of stinkers out there. That site is the best, and the products ship from Amazon almost immediately after you're done (like a week or two, max).

So no, you are quite incorrect to sum this all up. Not slave labor (you're doing offers by putting in your CC# and info to legit sites that you might have an interest in anyway, and you get free shit -- not a bad deal, methinks), doesn't take a ton of time if done correctly, and you will get your item. It's relatively risk free. Basically, you've obviously never done one, and I have no idea why the hell you're attacking me for trying to outline exactly what this dude would be in store for. If he were to look at those steps and say, aww, gee, well shit, this ain't worth it, then good -- I've saved him some thought and some trouble. If he looks at it and goes, well, that isn't as bad as it sounds, then good for him too.

TonyTheTiger
06-19-2008, 01:59 AM
You don't seem to be able to distinguish between a sustainable business model like the stock market, a store, or Ebay and a pyramid scheme which guarantees someone gets screwed over. Imagine a store where you walk in and pay money for stuff you want and only some of the time get the product you paid for.

Tell you what. I'll give you the best deal of your life. Send me $100 and convince 20 other people to do the same and I'll buy you a 40 inch LCD HDTV. Tell those 20 people the same thing.

monkeychemist
06-19-2008, 06:11 AM
Thanks for the ideas. I have thought about it and am trying to sell things to raise money to buy a PS3. If in 2 months I run out of things to sell and don't come up with the money I will try the sites you mentioned unwinddesign.

Thanks again everyone for the input!

Jeremy

Frankie_Says_Relax
06-19-2008, 07:26 AM
It's quite possible to get stuff completely for free. My friend got a PSP for free with my help. My other friend got an Xbox 360 for free with my help as well. $0 cash dollars exchanged. I outlined the easiest and quickest way for monkey_chemist to do it. For like $150, maybe a week or two of his time if he is *really* intent (I mean seriously going after this shit), and he has a PS3. Much easier than a part-time job. No job app, no training, no commute, no schedule...nothing. It's much more lucrative than working for $2 an hour, or even $10, provided you only DO 1 or 2 sites. You try to make a fortune off of it, it doesn't work (although it was acceptable at the time to me, being 16). I don't care about the ethics about it or being some pawn in some scheme. In actuality, having talked to the owners of some of these sites, they are nice, regular people trying to make a living. There are much worse things to be a part of, and so long as he knows that it's going to cost him $150 to $200 (which he said would be acceptable -- at least $100 would be, don't know if he's willing to go further), then go for it.

The harder way of doing things, ACTUALLY FOR FREE, is to find clever ways to get people to sign up under you. Ask friends to do it as a favor, if they owe you like $5 or $10 for lunch. Ask co-workers to do it if you'll walk the dog. Is it monetarily free? Yes. Is it technically free? No. But nothing ever is, and if you're going to get all uppity and mince words, I don't know what to tell you -- I know that as well as anyone. If your definition of having to risk cash to get reward is a "scam," then I have news for you. STOCK MARKET: SCAM! EBAY: SCAM! OPENING A RETAIL ESTABLISHMENT: SCAM. OPENING A SMALL BUSINESS: SCAM! There's risk in everything that you do, and, by the way, I said *traders* on anything4free.com, a FORUM like this one (except dedicated to people who love semi-free shit), would screw you on the site (not most of them, but there are a fair share of assholes out there), not the trainn site itself. I recommended him the best site -- believe me, I know firsthand that there are a metric asston of stinkers out there. That site is the best, and the products ship from Amazon almost immediately after you're done (like a week or two, max).

So no, you are quite incorrect to sum this all up. Not slave labor (you're doing offers by putting in your CC# and info to legit sites that you might have an interest in anyway, and you get free shit -- not a bad deal, methinks), doesn't take a ton of time if done correctly, and you will get your item. It's relatively risk free. Basically, you've obviously never done one, and I have no idea why the hell you're attacking me for trying to outline exactly what this dude would be in store for. If he were to look at those steps and say, aww, gee, well shit, this ain't worth it, then good -- I've saved him some thought and some trouble. If he looks at it and goes, well, that isn't as bad as it sounds, then good for him too.

*sigh*

1.) The items in question are not free. (You've repeatedly agreed/admitted that much) An offer of "free merchandise" that is essentially NOT free (and those who openly support it) is something I feel is enough to frown upon in a very reputable community of gamers/traders/buyers/sellers like Digital Press.

2.) There's work to be done and risks to be taken that - if you're not careful can come close to being financially damaging / put a person in a position to spend more than the item is worth.

3.) Statements like "much more lucrative than working $2 an hour" are speculative and subjective, and don't change the fact that there's X amount of time and effort needed to obtain whatever is needed to gain your items.

You obviously feel like you've beaten that system (while in reality, you seem to admit objectively that you've spent just about as much as you've gotten "for free" on things) so your arguments are empowered by those feelings, however...

As far as I'm concerned, I've said nothing that's untrue or unreasonable about those sites...

...and in regards to your estimation of OTHER businesses being scams...while there are financial RISKS involved for OPENING a business and SELLING merchandise, the same risks should not be involved from a consumer's standpoint. None of those sites attempt to empower the people at the entry-level that they are responsible for "selling" their merchandise (merchandise being offers) to other people for cash (or FAVORS like walking the dog .... SERIOUSLY? Did you SERIOUSLY get somebody to do an internet offer for WALKING A DOG?!?)

eBay offers safety nets for both buyers and sellers, store have insurance and sales policies ... and the stock market, while I don't endorse that either, I'd call more GAMBLING than a straight up scam.

We can just agree to disagree. Enjoy your discounted merchandise. Keep telling yourself it was free. That's how those sites stay in business.

monkeychemist
06-19-2008, 10:03 AM
come on guys, let's stick to topic and allow everyone to express their opinions. There is no need to point out errors in other's posts. I can make my own decisions and I want people to feel encouraged to express their ideas. There are many times where people don't post in fear of retaliation and that makes the forum less interesting...

norkusa
06-19-2008, 11:48 AM
The harder way of doing things, ACTUALLY FOR FREE, is to find clever ways to get people to sign up under you.

Yeah, this is the hard part but it's not impossible. There's online forums that use conga lines. What people do is post a link to their offers, and then the person posting after you will sign up for one of your offers while leaving a link to theirs for the next poster to sign-up under.

So you really don't *have* to pay anything to get a free PS3, Wii, or whatever. Just make sure you cancel whatever free trial offer you signed up for before they start charging your credit card.

Muscelli
06-19-2008, 12:14 PM
It really isn't hard.. Unwinddesign is 100% right in everything he says. I offered $20 to each of the five people who signed up under my referral link that earned me an ipod touch. I had it done within a week, and didn't really work for it nor hound anybody. I would reccomend the trainn network of sites as well. The only risk is knowing what you are getting into when signing up for an offer, which is why I would suggest a simple one like netflix.

TonyTheTiger
06-19-2008, 12:32 PM
come on guys, let's stick to topic and allow everyone to express their opinions. There is no need to point out errors in other's posts. I can make my own decisions and I want people to feel encouraged to express their ideas. There are many times where people don't post in fear of retaliation and that makes the forum less interesting...

But is this the guy you really want to trust?


I don't care about the ethics about it or being some pawn in some scheme.

No bad blood or anything. Just making a point. If something sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Despite what unwinddesign says, the operators of these pyramid schemes are not honest business people just trying to make a living. What they do is akin to a casino owner using magnets on the roulette wheel or dealing from the bottom of the deck. It's more than just a gamble. It's essentially fraud. When you walk into a gamble you know that there's a chance you'll win and a chance you'll lose. Depending on when you walk into one of these "bargains" there actually might be no chance you'll win. That's not a gamble. It's a sucker bet. Heads I win, tails you lose. And no matter what, someone is guaranteed to be tricked into taking that sucker bet. Maybe it won't be you, maybe it will. But I'll be damned if I call that honest.

People get funny when it comes to money and free stuff. All of a sudden, the mantra that they know to be true, "there's no such thing as a free lunch," somehow becomes obsolete. They start to trick themselves into believing that they've found some secret "in" that nobody else knows about. The way I see it is that there are 6 billion people on the planet. If this really were some secret "in" then a hell of a lot more people would be doing it. Ask everyone who owns a PS3 how they got it. I guarantee 99% of them will give an answer related to going to a store or someone else going to a store or Santa Claus and his elves. If these sites are really worth it, why aren't more people doing it? The deluded answer is "because they don't know about it" or "they haven't learned the ropes." The honest answer is "because they know better."

Frankie_Says_Relax
06-19-2008, 12:44 PM
My primary objection in all of this discussion is the use of the word "free".

Nobody here is handing out PS3s for FREE.

Without rambling on and on about it, it's fairly obvious that you have these choices when getting involved in something like this.

1.) Sign up for a "Free Offers" site, and spend X amount of your own personal time finding ways to get people to sign up for offers.

2.) Sign up for a "Free Offers" site and spend X amount of your own personal time AND X amount of your own personal money to get people to sign up for offers.

in both cases, you are spending your own time on something, be it an hour, a day, a week, a month or a year, and in the case of the latter, you're doling out cash to compensate others for their trouble.

In conclusion, no matter how you spin it, no mater how it's explained - what you've gotten (if you have gotten anything at all) has not. been. FREE.

I'm not saying that anybody is WRONG, I'm not saying that anybody is LYING ... I'm just saying that everybody involved in this discussion has provided nothing but evidence to support the above, and that's all I have to say about it.

SamuraiSmurfette
06-19-2008, 02:43 PM
If it were so easy, and completely free to get a PS3...
Everyone, including my grandmother would have one.
'nuff said.

unwinddesign
06-19-2008, 05:30 PM
Funny how people always get on each other's asses around here for not playing games and then sounding off about how much they "suck" and are "crap." Doesn't the same thing apply here? C'mon guys, I've done these sites -- over a dozen of them -- and I got screwed on exactly 2 of them. 2 out of about 14 or 15. Not a bad ratio. Why would I try to steer this dude wrong or deceive him? I'm EXACTLY who he would want to trust, seeing as how I have experience with these -- the real question is, why the hell would he want to trust anyone who hasn't done the sites? I'm not somehow delusional that these are free -- they aren't. Just trying to help him make an informed decision. Again, he can look at my steps -- which is EXACTLY how the scenario will play out -- and decide for himself if the variables involved make it a worthy thing to pursue. If not, he can figure out another cheap way to get a PS3 (which is why I also suggested the 'bay) and move on from the "free" sites.

By the way, I just signed up for another Trainn site -- someone paid me $27 to do it, by the way -- and as a side note, the offers aren't too bad. You can buy some coffee for $20 if you like java, sign up for an eBay account if you don't have one, do Netflix or Blockbuster online if you haven't already ($10 sub), or Gamefly ($15 sub I think). They also have a register for eMusic offer, which looks like it's about 12 bucks, and it comes with the 25 free song downloads, so if you're not a member of that site, it might be worth it...Overall, those are pretty legit, reputable companies...one other thing I'd do is, if you want to sign up for the Trainn PS3 site, go over to www.anything4free.com, register on the forums, and offer to do it in the cash4referalls section or beginner's trading post...people will pay you like $20 to go green under them, which will give you some money to do an offer and also maybe bribe some other people to assist you...just a thought (make sure they have 30+ feedback, though...)

Anyway, I see that you went the sell stuff route, which is probably a bit less stressful and lot more of a sure shot (cash, afterall is cash), so good luck with that.

TonyTheTiger
06-19-2008, 05:54 PM
You admit to it being a Matrix scheme and then defend the people running it. A Matrix scheme is more or less a pyramid scheme with an extra step. In the end, the results are the same and people on the bottom will likely never get the final "gift." The only reason the legality is different (though not everywhere) is because the extra step feigns legitimacy because the scheme requires you to actually buy something of little or no value and the target "gift" is just an extra bonus. But nobody ever enters these things because they want to buy e-books or something. They're drawn to it because of the focus placed on the final item. The fact that the word "scheme" is in the term you give it alone should be enough to tell you these are not honest business people. I don't know how to make it any clearer. A dishonest business person doesn't have to snarl and sacrifice small animals. They can easily appear as nice people and might actually be nice. But being socially nice does not preclude being a scammer in business. In fact, being nice and friendly is often an important characteristic for these people who use their demeanor to convince people to join the venture.

As for the video game issue, it's not the same thing. We're not talking about quality in a subjective sense. If I hear that a particular game, however, has a game breaking bug that crashes the game, erases your memory card, and makes completing the game impossible then, yes, I can declare that a bad game without playing it. It's objectively bad. Same goes for pyramid/matrix schemes. I don't have to try it out to know that somewhere down the line, somebody gets the shaft and the people running the show take the money and run.

Look, if you've done this stuff and it worked out for you, great. You got things you wanted and from your perspective, at a good discount. You were lucky and got in at the right time. I don't, however, think it's a good idea to tell anyone to jump on board without making it clear that they might not be as lucky as you and end up paying something and not getting anything for it. You can't put a smiley face sticker next to that.

carlcarlson
06-19-2008, 06:23 PM
Unwind has been clear throughout his posts that it takes work (and money) to do this stuff. I don't understand why you guys are jumping all over him. And I may be wrong, but it seems like he is the only one here who has actually done this stuff, so he is the one most qualified (if not the ONLY one) to talk. He knows what it takes to get your stuff, and he's outlined it thoroughly. Leave him alone for crying out loud.

And before I get jumped on too, no I haven't done any of these, but a quick google search will show you that they've worked for plenty of people. Those of you saying "if it's so easy why doesn't everyone do it" obviously haven't read the posts. It's NOT easy. It takes persistance and patience, which most people lack. Heck, that's what the people running these things count on, and that's the reason they are able to make money on them. The majority of people that sign up fail to get enough referrals so they never get their prize. That's not a scam, the person knew that going in. They simply gave up. I myself haven't done one of these because I have a feeling I would be that person. I don't like hassle, so I'll stick to normal work, but for some people this is a viable option.

TonyTheTiger
06-19-2008, 06:31 PM
I don't deny that these things can work for people. But everyone celebrating these practices always fails to acknowledge that these things necessarily bottom out so even people who do the work get screwed. That's one of the biggest problems. Nobody ever clearly says "If you are at the bottom you will get screwed." Matrix schemes can last longer than pyramid schemes but they still bottom out. Just because it's possible to get stuff from these ventures does not automatically make them less shady.

And what's with these "if you haven't tried it, don't knock it" comments? I haven't tried shooting off a bottle rocket near power lines either. Doesn't mean I can't say that doing so would be a bad idea.

carlcarlson
06-19-2008, 06:40 PM
I don't deny that these things work for people. But everyone celebrating these practices fail to acknowledge that these things necessarily bottom out so even people ready and willing to do the work get screwed. That's one of the biggest problems. Nobody ever clearly says "If you are at the bottom you will get screwed."

You're right on that point, someone will always be at the bottom. When you sign up it's just a gamble that it won't be you. However, I think if you work hard enough you will almost always be able to find referrals. It might require money, but I think most people could get the referrals if they really stuck with it. Of course spending money is what you are trying to avoid, so that's more of a last resort.


And what's with these "if you haven't tried it, don't knock it" comments? I haven't tried shooting off a bottle rocket near power lines either. Doesn't mean I can't say that doing so would be a bad idea.

But have you ever heard of that going well for anyone? This has worked for thousands of people, and one of them is here telling Monkey how to go about it if he wants to.

TonyTheTiger
06-19-2008, 06:51 PM
You're right on that point, someone will always be at the bottom. When you sign up it's just a gamble that it won't be you. However, I think if you work hard enough you will almost always be able to find referrals. It might require money, but I think most people could get the referrals if they really stuck with it. Of course spending money is what you are trying to avoid, so that's more of a last resort.

The thing is, the venture is based on a lot of deception. Hell, the word "free" is tossed around a lot and is never true. Also, anyone who runs one of these schemes (the operative word in all of this) always pretends that it's a near certainty you'll "win." The worker ants who try to sign more people up will always talk up but never acknowledge any down sides.

And, here's the big one: It reaches a point where it is outright impossible for the business to continue. Consider that eventually there will be a number of people looking for more people to sign up. If you do the math the number of people needed will be larger than the human population. So, no, it's not really a gamble in that sense. At any point, no matter when you walk up to the table, your odds in roulette never reach 0. It's just a scam that's based on people not knowing the odds will eventually hit 0. Would you really play a game of poker where each hand your chances of being dealt the higher cards actually lowers over time?


But have you ever heard of that going well for anyone? This has worked for thousands of people, and one of them is here telling Monkey how to go about it if he wants to.

Of course. I've known people to do it and nothing went wrong. Doesn't change the fact that it was a bad idea.

Frankie_Says_Relax
06-19-2008, 08:11 PM
Unwind has been clear throughout his posts that it takes work (and money) to do this stuff. I don't understand why you guys are jumping all over him. And I may be wrong, but it seems like he is the only one here who has actually done this stuff, so he is the one most qualified (if not the ONLY one) to talk. He knows what it takes to get your stuff, and he's outlined it thoroughly. Leave him alone for crying out loud.

IMO, this is nothing more than a healthy debate.

I don't believe that anybody has done anything other than take a side on the matter and support what they've said with logical arguments. (While Unwind has provided some contrary positions to what he's said within his owns statements ... he's still really just arguing his point.)

While I have nothing else to add to my position, from my very first statement I never claimed it was "impossible" to obtain anything.

I simply wanted to present my best argument against something that is designed to be extremely difficult, highly misleading, and voice my disapproval that the businesses that run these operations go to great lengths to utilize the word "FREE" at every given opportunity - when in fact it has been agreed upon by all debating parties on both sides that nothing is in fact "FREE".

I'm sorry that people may be overly sensitive about this, but this isn't a pile-on attack, I'm just a very vehement guy when it comes to seeing somebody in a position of desperation and frustration potentially get taken advantage of. So sue me.

This isn't personal for me, and while I can't speak for TonyTheTiger, I'm fairly certain he's not attempting to do anything more than take a strong position against it also.

unwinddesign
06-19-2008, 08:29 PM
Bottom line is this: not a pyramid scheme. Not a matrix scheme, which is why that comment was deleted from my post (or should have been; who knows, it went through many revisions). Not a scam. Numerous people have done them, received items, and if you do a legit site, you don't get screwed. It is sustainable for the very reasons carl outlined: people don't complete the site. They give up. For every one user on A4F who completes the site for the prize, there's probably ten people who find the site, sign up for a Blockbuster trial, and then forget about the whole thing. It's "too hard" for them, or they're just lazy. If you click on the "shoot George Bush and win a PS3!" links, you will get hosed -- those are faker than Jenna Jameson's tits. Go to the site I linked to, do the steps correctly, and you get something. Again, USA based business means that this is not a Ponzi scheme, not a pyramid scheme, not a matrix scheme (which aren't illegal in the USA, but outlawed in the UK). Traiinn has shipped over 5.5 million in free gifts over 3.5 years; I don't see how they could be fake as hell if they've done that. There's been zippo reports of people not receiving their free shit from them. The owner posts on the forums and responds to your questions, even though they have thousands upon thousands of users. I'm not vouching for any other sites (although, again, there are others that prove this is a sustainable business model). Just Traiinn. If you have the perseverance, and a bit of time, you can get yourself a cheap item or two. I mean like a couple hours, maybe a hundred bucks if you're savvy and willing to wait a month for the refs, and then boom! a nice shiny PS3 or Xbox 360. There are no guarantees in life, but it's really about as likely as getting screwed from a 10,000+ 99% feedback seller on eBay. Possible, but not likely.

TonyTheTiger
06-19-2008, 09:05 PM
So how does it work? Is he making enough money on each person to be able to buy that person the prize? Because, the thing is, if the prize for the earlier people depends on the participation of later people, then it isn't possible for it to be sustainable. The only way it could be sustainable is if each person's prize is unrelated to the later participants.

unwinddesign
06-20-2008, 12:24 AM
Every business is reliant on customers. No business would be sustainable if there were no customers. Participants = customers.

Essentially, the sites get paid anywhere from $20 - $60 for each ref they give to the advertisers (Blockbuster, Netflix, etc.). Some companies -- such as Comcast, or hosting offers give the big bucks to the free site (Trainn, henceforth), and give more ($80+ sometimes). It takes 6 refs + your own offer to get $300. That is $140 at the very, very least. But let's not assume that everyone does some crappy diet pill company that pays out like $20 per ref. Let's go towards the middle and say that it's about $40 per ref they receive...that equals $280. So that's a net loss of $20. BUT...

There will never be 100% completetion percentage. There will never even be a 50% completion percentage of all the people who sign up and complete at least one offer. Thus, they can make money. Thus, sustainable business model. Clearly, Trainn has good cash flow; they send payments out daily, cut checks twice a week for those who don't have Paypal, and send product shipments en masse weekly or bi-weekly depending on the site. So they've made money at this point, and have fall-back funds (I'm assuming, given that they don't receive payouts instantly from their advertisers, and they ship so often). Just like in any business, you're gonna run into patches where you're in the red and more people are completing offers than are giving up. Things tend to even themselves out, though, so...I think they're pretty solid.

And, for what it's worth, no business model is infinitely sustainable, since you can't factor in all variables. Companies rise and fall all the time in respectable industries, large and small. There are no guarantees in life. But I like Trainn for free sites, and I think they're pretty solid. They've been good to me, and good to a lot of people, and there aren't any complaints against them. They do what they promise, and do it quickly. They are profitable, or at least breaking even; I can't see any feasible way they could ship out 5.5 million in gifts and be losing tons of money. Which, to be honest, is as much as you can hope for when dealing with a company.

TonyTheTiger
06-20-2008, 01:39 AM
Every business is reliant on customers. No business would be sustainable if there were no customers. Participants = customers.

Essentially, the sites get paid anywhere from $20 - $60 for each ref they give to the advertisers (Blockbuster, Netflix, etc.). Some companies -- such as Comcast, or hosting offers give the big bucks to the free site (Trainn, henceforth), and give more ($80+ sometimes). It takes 6 refs + your own offer to get $300. That is $140 at the very, very least. But let's not assume that everyone does some crappy diet pill company that pays out like $20 per ref. Let's go towards the middle and say that it's about $40 per ref they receive...that equals $280. So that's a net loss of $20. BUT...

There will never be 100% completetion percentage. There will never even be a 50% completion percentage of all the people who sign up and complete at least one offer. Thus, they can make money. Thus, sustainable business model.

No. That's not how sustainable vs. non-sustainable is determined. A non-sustainable business model is one that should everyone do what they are supposed to do, the system cannot continue past a certain point. So long as the next group of people are paying for the earlier group's prizes, it is not sustainable.

Let's say I ask you to get two of your family members to give me a nickel. And then both of those family members has to find two more family members to give a nickel. Now let's say you only have 50 family members. Eventually you'll have 4 people looking to recruit 8 in total. Then those 8 will look to recruit 16 more. Eventually you'll run out of family members. That's what happens with all of these things.

Therefore, no. Based on what you said, it is not sustainable. Hence, I will still cry foul. Just because Trainn has a system going where he can figure a number of people will not follow through, does not mean he has a sustainable business model. It's just a non-sustainable one that he can stretch for a long time.


And, for what it's worth, no business model is infinitely sustainable, since you can't factor in all variables. Companies rise and fall all the time in respectable industries, large and small. There are no guarantees in life.

You're misunderstanding what sustainable/non-sustainable actually mean. Sustainable doesn't mean something will last forever. It means that under prime operating conditions, the business is not guaranteed to bottom out. A store has merchandise, customers buy merchandise, store replenishes merchandise from distributors, customers buy merchandise, etc. The cycle can continue theoretically forever. Just because a store goes out of business does not mean it wasn't a sustainable business model.

If Trainn is using future recruits to pay for the prizes of earlier recruits that is necessarily non-sustainable because the eventuality is that there will be too many recruits and the pool of potential new recruits will shrink to nothing. He could keep the business running for 100 years and it won't change the fact that it is a non-sustainable business model because at any given time he does not have enough revenue to pay out what he owes until more revenue comes in later on. The inevitable eventuality is that there will no longer be revenue coming in because the pool of customers shrinks to zippo and people still waiting for their prizes will not get them because there are no future recruits there to pay for them.


But I like Trainn for free sites, and I think they're pretty solid. They've been good to me, and good to a lot of people, and there aren't any complaints against them. They do what they promise, and do it quickly. They are profitable, or at least breaking even; I can't see any feasible way they could ship out 5.5 million in gifts and be losing tons of money. Which, to be honest, is as much as you can hope for when dealing with a company.

Eh. Profitability doesn't mean it's entirely legitimate. Look at the mafia. Based on what you're saying, it really is a matrix scheme with a few band-aids on it to make it run smoother.

What would make it more legitimate (though possibly not even sustainable because of the pool problem) would be if Trainn recruited, say, 4 people and when those 4 people did what they are supposed to do Trainn will have made enough money to not only buy those 4 people the PS3s but also have something left over for profit. That way, at any given moment, even if all revenue stops cold, he can pay out what he owes to everyone he owes it to. Really, it's bad business to base everything solely on customers who don't follow through.

unwinddesign
06-20-2008, 09:00 PM
I think the main thing here is that never, ever will everyone complete the offers. Human nature tells us this. Never will those six people I find actually all go out and find six more people each (a total of 43 people). Maybe one of those people will find another six people, but even that sounds high to me.

I don't have the exact numbers (theoretical), but with my own study of the game at anything4free and congablast, and my own friends, I'd suspect that the completion rate is very, very low amongst those who sign up and complete their offer.

If you don't want to bank a business on this, then that's a-ok -- I don't think you'll ever get rich off a freebie site, running one, that is, because you can't possibly grow enough and win over the skeptics. Make money, though, sure, and stick around for awhile? Definately. Forever? No, but if you have some business savvy, I'd say as well as any other company. It's hard to tell what the future holds, but they are here now, and they've been around for 3 and a half years...and seem to be doing pretty well. So, as of June 20, I would not be skeptical at all of signing up. June 20 of next year is anyone's guess, but I'd suspect that they'd still be alive, ticking and satisfying customers.

Just something to chew on: would anyone have thought that Bear Sterns would be gone on June 20, 2008? Nope. Ten years ago, could anyone fathom Enron being gone in 2008? No way! It's just impossible, impossible to tell what truly is sustainable and isn't. But with good management, I think you've got a leg up on the competition.

TonyTheTiger
06-21-2008, 03:47 PM
It's just impossible, impossible to tell what truly is sustainable and isn't.

No no no. Again, sustainability is business theory not practice. All of those companies that you mentioned were sustainable businesses despite the crash and burn. You have to separate the concept of "Trainn is still alive and won't be going anywhere for a while" from sustainability. His business is non-sustainable because it does not have a "cycle" so to speak. Like I said, it could last 100 years and it still would be non-sustainable because of how the business works. Sustainability is factually determinable based on the business's model, not the business's success or failure.