Chrono Cross is sucking

[trader342]

I am about two hours into Chrono Cross
It
SUCKS
It has none of the fun or personality of Chrono Trigger, in fact it is boringgg

There is no adventure, just a bunch of stupid meaningless crap happening, those goons who re-appear twice and fight you are just a copy of the Turks from FF7... then I can't talk to anybody in a town without them saying five boxes of meaningless dialog, while in FF7 people say one or two lines. I don't care about anything that's happening so far

Does it get better?

[skaar]

Hey at least you didn't have to pay 70 bucks for it.

It sucks. Then you get lots of people. Then it still sucks. And you get pissed off.

I'm sure somebody liked it. There's a vague tie-in to the first game somewhere. But also: it sucks.

[Aussie2B]

The beginning is fairly representative of the whole, except the plot grows more convoluted as the game goes along.

I didn't like it much either, but it does have plenty of its fans. At the very least, I'm glad I played through it to appreciate the excellent music and character art.

[Poofta!]

hey dont compare the turd that is Chrono Cross to the charm, affection and skillful story telling of FF7.

but yeah, it doesnt get any better.

[Sudo]

I loved it. It wasn't nearly as good as the first, but very few games are. It also happens to have one of the best soundtracks of all time.

[Cloud121]

Chrono Cross was the best RPG Square made of the fifth generation. And in my opinion, it not only kicked Chrono Trigger's ass, it handed it back to it after doing so. (What the hell did I just say?). Either way, CC > CT in every way.

I can assume you didn't like Shenmue either due to it's extremely slow beginning?

Then again, your reasoning for disliking Chrono Cross is the EXACT reason for my not liking Xenogears. To each their own I guess. Just play through the game entirely. Trust me, it does get a lot better. I assume you played Chrono Trigger beforehand? That makes everything a lot better.

[dao2]

Chrono Cross was the best RPG Square made of the fifth generation. And in my opinion, it not only kicked Chrono Trigger's ass, it handed it back to it after doing so. (What the hell did I just say?). Either way, CC > CT in every way.

I can assume you didn't like Shenmue either due to it's extremely slow beginning?

cross was absolutely horrible :|

[incubus421]

Yea, if you count it as it's own game instead of a "Chrono" game it's really not too bad. And it can easily be counted up there with the slew of other mediocre, yet fun, RPGs of the PS1 generation.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I never played it, but I did sell a TON of the promotional clocks in my very first trade-in to the Digital Press store.

[Cloud121]

Yea, if you count it as it's own game instead of a "Chrono" game it's really not too bad. And it can easily be counted up there with the slew of other mediocre, yet fun, RPGs of the PS1 generation.
But you can't count it as it's own game, since it does continue the storyline of the original.

***MAJOR SPOILERS***

Especially considering the fact Crono, Marle, and Lucca are in the game. As is Lavos, Schala, and Frog (Only in name as Glenn. Frog's a bit of a stretch though). Guile was supposed to be Magus, but that got changed at the last minute.

It's been a good six years since I played Chrono Trigger (July 2002), and Chrono Cross (August 2002), so my memory of the plot is fairly cloudy.

[Kid Fenris]

Chrono Cross may have a needlessly stiff battle system, a cast of mostly forgettable characters and one huge mess of a storyline, but I'll say this for it: it's still the most goddamn beautiful game I've ever played.


Guile was supposed to be Magus, but that got changed at the last minute.

It's depressing to look through the Chrono Cross artbook and see how everything, from the story to the character art, got worse as the game got closer to the final.

[roushimsx]

I've never been able to make it further than 3 hours into the game, though my last attempt was about 4 years ago. In comparison, I was able to waste ~10 hours of my life on Xenogears and another 12 hours on Final Fantasy VIII before deciding they were totally not for me. I'm sure if I'd fired up either one right about now, I could probably force myself through them...but why bother when there's other games I'm actually interested in playing for the first time?

That said, if a new Chrono game ever does get announced, I'll replay Chrono Trigger and plow through Chrono Cross just to bring myself fully up to speed.


I can assume you didn't like Shenmue either due to it's extremely slow beginning?

Oh no, Shenmue sucked for far more reasons than just the slow beginning. It also had the slow middle, repetitive end, slow and clunky control (good god did the control blow), an awful script and even worse voice acting. In hindsight, the beginning was the best part of the game. Well that and the arcade.

[Lothars]

cross was absolutely horrible :|


not at all, Cross is one of the best PS1 RPG's released better than FFVII which is an alright game that hasn't aged well but I replayed Chrono Cross a couple years ago and it's still a great game.

I don't know why you all are so down on Chrono Cross

It's not as good as Chrono Trigger but it's still a great game

[G-Boobie]

they should have cut the roster by eighty percent.

The soundtrack is one of the finest in video games, though. I finished CC just to hear every track.

[SpaceHarrier]

I loved Chrono Cross, it was a RPG I rented with no pre-conceived notions back in the day, then very quickly purchased. It is worth reiterating any number of times how awesome the music is. Personally I loved how many characters there were. I have to say that I am not that fond of the experience/battle system though, it is clunky to no end. Great color palette though, and Cross still has one of my favorite CG intros of all time.

By the way, I never played Chrono Trigger -- and by the sound of it, I'm glad I played Cross first. Should I stop putting off Trigger? Heh...

[skaar]

Y'know I managed to make my well all the way through like 70 freaking hours of Xenogears and couldn't stomach Chrono Cross more than 3 hours.

It did have a good soundtrack through.

[TonyTheTiger]

I happen to really like Chrono Cross. My complaints can be reduced to five main issues, some larger than others.

In no particular order:

1) Although it lends itself to generic characters, the battle/magic engine isn't bad but certain aspects within it are either rarely viable (summons) or flat out useless (dual techs). I feel like the summons were there simply because it became a Square trademark and dual techs were there simply for posterity because, at least as far as the latter, they never managed to be useful.

2) The script is very obtuse. The plot is no more complex than Chrono Trigger's but for some crazy reason the game takes a round about way of getting to the point. Very simple concepts are buried under pages worth of pseudo-philosophical existential nonsense. Think of Ansem's mindless banter about "darkness and shit" in Kingdom Hearts and multiply that about 10 times over.

3) Plot points are poorly distributed throughout the game. It's not like most games where you get sprinkles here and there. With Chrono Cross you basically play for hours and then get bombarded with plot. This is especially true at the end, which is where 90% of the connections to Trigger show up. In an ordinary game this wouldn't be much of an issue but after combining this with the obtuse script it makes it easy to forget what exactly is going on. It wasn't until my third playthrough that I really got everything down.

4) Each character's value is marred by the sheer number of available people. Out of 45 party members, a grand total of four are relevant throughout the game. One of those being Serge himself. About seven were important for a good chunk of the game, about seventeen were important for brief plot sequences revolving around them, and the remaining seventeen are essentially pokémon for you to collect. What this means is that once a character's stint in the story is over, they're reduced to just showing up in battle and once in a while reciting generic "party member #2/#3" dialogue in different funny accents. And almost 40% of them do that from the very beginning.

5) It sort of shits on Chrono Trigger. This might be a positive or negative depending on your outlook but, without spoiling anything, the game more or less does not speak particularly favorably about what Crono and the gang accomplished.



Despite these problems, I still really like the game and would easily recommend it as one of the best RPGs on the Playstation.

[Haoie]

I don't like it much either, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it sucked.

[Fuyukaze]

It wasnt the best RPG on the PS1 by any means. Not even the best Square RPG on the PS1 either. The problem with it was that those who grew to love the original didnt get the sequal they had hoped for, the new experience less system tended to be one giant headache for many, and over all it just didnt live up to many fans expectations. Both realistic and insane ones. The music, that was good. Story at parts wasnt bad either. That said, I just was not impresed and never bothered finishing it. There was just too many other good RPGs that deserved to be played.

[Volcanon]

Chrono Cross sucked for all of the reasons people gave before. I liked how there was branching paths and such, but the setting (some random stupid lagoon) and such were kinda nonsensical and annoying for me. Also the tons of characters who serve no point.

Xenogears was a great game all the way up to the end of the first disc, where the game obviously hit some sort of deadline and they spend hours telling you with very slowly-crawling nonskippable text about things they do. The world gets the usual "RPG-style" doom and death, but when you get to see the overworld again, everything is the same, cities are still there, just you can't go in them. Would it have been so hard to make the cities into giant smoking craters?

[Brian Deuel]

I like Shenmue, despite the fact that I despise modern RPGs.

[Daria]

Hey at least you didn't have to pay 70 bucks for it.

It sucks. Then you get lots of people. Then it still sucks. And you get pissed off.

I'm sure somebody liked it. There's a vague tie-in to the first game somewhere. But also: it sucks.

And at least you didn't trade a copy of Bubble Bobble 2 for it. :P

Chrono Cross does indeed blow, plagued by stupid character designs, annoying accents, and a weak plot. It also suffers from a classic Square fault of having a story that makes no god damn sense. That said I thouroughly enjoyed both Chrono Trigger and Radical Dreamers and I'm the last person to knock a sequal for being "different". However, I still thought Chrono Cross was a boring load of shit and I stuck with it up until you take control of Lynx.

As for whoever claimed Cross was one of the best PS1 RPGs ever... wow. What other RPGs have you played for the system?

[ssjlance]

I loved it just for how screwed up the story is and how hard it is to follow. Also, the music.

[carlcarlson]

I like Shenmue, despite the fact that I despise modern RPGs.

I love cheeseburgers, but I can't ride a bicycle.

I really enjoyed Chrono Cross. It was actually the first jrpg I ever really got into, and is one of the few I've actually finished. I did play it before Chrono Trigger, though, so I had absolutely no expectations going into it. I really liked the setting though, and the music was great. I have tried to get back into it a couple times and just couldn't do it, so maybe most of the enjoyment was not having anything to compare it to.

[TonyTheTiger]

As for whoever claimed Cross was one of the best PS1 RPGs ever... wow. What other RPGs have you played for the system?

It might be a shorter list if you ask me what RPGs I haven't played on the system (though I certainly haven't beaten all that I've played). Regardless, I prefer CC to FFIX if that gives you any idea of where I'm coming from. And if you want to talk about ugly character designs...:-/ And for the record, CC's plot did make sense. In fact, it's pretty easy to follow once you get passed the Square-ish philosophical nonsense. But that's been going on since the second disc of FFVII. Part of the reason I liked FFXII so much was because it was a breath of fresh air and said what it meant in simple English. "Stop the bad man!"

Honestly, even beyond the "gotta catch 'em all" characters, it seems like whether or not a person likes Cross depends almost entirely on if they're willing to put up with the vague script. It might be one of the most divisive games on the Playstation. Others possibly being SaGa Frontier (which I loathe) and Dragon Warrior/Quest VII (which I find tedious).


Hey at least you didn't have to pay 70 bucks for it.

When did CC ever cost anywhere near $70?

[Jorpho]

I liked FFIX. :(


Think of Ansem's mindless banter about "darkness and shit" in Kingdom Hearts

Heh, "darkness and shit". Now that would be an original villain!


That said I thouroughly enjoyed both Chrono Trigger and Radical Dreamers and I'm the last person to knock a sequal for being "different".

Oh yes, Radical Dreamers. Whoever likes the Chrono Cross soundtrack should give that one a gander.

[MrSparkle]

Purchased it being a huge chrono trigger fan, havent so much as popped it in to see if the discs work (got it about 2... maybe 3 months ago now). I've heard all along that it's not the sequel to chrono trigger i and so many others hoped it would be, so to be honest i've been in a mindset to play it and have it suck. Here's hoping i'm wrong.

[c0ldb33r]

I really liked Chrono Cross.

I lucked out. I wasn't exposed to any pre-game hype. I wasn't expecting it to be a true Chrono Trigger sequel. I just thought it'd be like a Final Fantasy sequel and be somewhat similar to the predecessor, yet be a completely different game.

If I remember correctly, my wife got it for me for Christmas one year. We both really enjoyed it. I played it and she watched, for hours on end.

I can't really remember the story as I only ever played it the once, but I remember liking it. Also, the music and graphics were absolutely FANTASTIC.

If they made Chrono Cross 2, I'd buy it :)

edit: I remember the sound track was so good that we downloaded it, burned it to CD and listened to it in the car. We don't typically do stuff like that. I'd buy the soundtrack in a second if I found it local.

[kainemaxwell]

Crono Cross I just plain didn't get. Xenogears on the other hand, I love.

[calthaer]

However, I still thought Chrono Cross was a boring load of shit and I stuck with it up until you take control of Lynx.

You know, it's funny you mention that, because this is the exact point in the game when I just sort of gave it up and decided that this was more of the same sort of Square drivel that made me turn to Western RPGs like Planescape: Torment and Neverwinter Nights. I have a lot of the old Square RPGs, but...meh. Why bother?

[Garry Silljo]

I'm glad I read this thread. For some reason I thought everyone loved this game and I was the only person who who couldn't stand it. Like many I only made it about 4 hours in and was just too bored to continue. I didn't care about any of the characters at all, and thus had no will to see what happened to them. Loved Chrono Trigger, enjoyed Shenmue.

[Kid Fenris]

You know, it's funny you mention that, because this is the exact point in the game when I just sort of gave it up and decided that this was more of the same sort of Square drivel that made me turn to Western RPGs like Planescape: Torment and Neverwinter Nights.

Yeah. Unlike Chrono Cross, Planescape doesn't have an annoying skull character shoehorned into a mostly serious...oh.

[Zebbe]

Good music, graphics, FMV, 3D, millions of characters (it became a parody of itself when that blonde soldier/police whatever asked his alter ego to join them), that Black Metal dude and very brief connections to Chrono Trigger can't save this game from being super-boring with a storyline I've almost completely forgotten about since it wasn't memorable at all. Chrono Cross is a proof that what makes a game great isn't the medium or technology it uses, it is the gameplay. That is why Chrono Trigger is superb and Chrono Cross awful.

[Aussie2B]

On the subject of the character designs, while I can understand if someone is put off by the strangeness of many of the characters or has issues with the polygons since the textures in Chrono Cross squirm around like nobody's business, but I'll never understand how some people can think the art of the characters is ugly. Nobuteru Yuuki is an exceptionable artist, and his Chrono Cross designs are fantastic. He always gives his work an unusual appearance, and I know so people prefer that stereotypical anime look, which is why he gets grief for the long pointy noses in Escaflowne. I think that's his best quality, though. Just look at half of the female characters in the game and tell me they're not lovely.

[exit]

I picked this game up a few years ago at EB and I got a couple of hours into it, then put it to the side and forgot about it for awhile. A few months ago I picked it up again and remembered why I stopped playing it, the battle system is fucking horrible. It might just be me, but it all just seemed confusing and I really had no idea what was going on, I'd just do random commands and hoped that I would win the battle.

[Nate Nanjo]

I like the soundtrack, but thats about it.

Actually, that was probably the only reason I beat the game.

[Daria]

It might be a shorter list if you ask me what RPGs I haven't played on the system

Humor me.

[EX-Soldier]

jesus christ never did i imagine the hate this game could generate, i actually have it but never played more than 5 minutes of it, so i cant comment, but i was under the impression that this was one of the greatest jrpgs ever made, i thought ppl loved this game, i remember it getting rave reviews when it was released....um i think???

[Jorpho]

jesus christ never did i imagine the hate this game could generate, i actually have it but never played more than 5 minutes of it, so i cant comment, but i was under the impression that this was one of the greatest jrpgs ever made, i thought ppl loved this game, i remember it getting rave reviews when it was released....um i think???

Much the same can be said for FFVIII.

[James8BitStar]

I'm sure somebody liked it.

Somebody did. I've talked to him.

I got two hours into the game, and called it quits. When I said so, this person--who I shall call CCN1F (Chrono Cross' Number 1 Fan)--ranted at length about how I was a stupid backwards ignorant cross-bred mongrel dog-person who obviously fell off the gravy train after nearly drowning and getting brain damaged from it.

Then he went on to all the usual RPG Fanboy cliches: You've got to play the whole game first because its the story and not the gameplay that's important. It has Cool Concept X which nullifies all other faults. To reject this game is to think all RPGs should play like Dragon Warrior. And so on and so forth.

I told him to fuck off cuz I'm not gonna play by Mein Fuhrer's rules. Then I showed him the ending of Bionic Commando to prove my point.

Chrono Cross didn't leave a lasting impression on me, but its fanboy sure did.

[Daria]

jesus christ never did i imagine the hate this game could generate, i actually have it but never played more than 5 minutes of it, so i cant comment, but i was under the impression that this was one of the greatest jrpgs ever made, i thought ppl loved this game, i remember it getting rave reviews when it was released....um i think???


Funny. I was under the impression that the game was a universal disapointment.

[carlcarlson]

Funny. I was under the impression that the game was a universal disapointment.

Gamespot gave it a perfect 10. I'd say that's pretty good.

[James8BitStar]

Gamespot gave it a perfect 10. I'd say that's pretty good.

Until you realize that sites like Gamespot would never diss a major release from a company as big as Square...

[EX-Soldier]

so basically the general consensus is....the game sucks balls, while we're on the topic of ball sucking goodness i wanna add xenogears to that list, when the fuck is this game going to pick up? this mind-numbing wackness better pay off soon or its back to hello kitty island adventures for me (im in the mines under the desert after it collapses with that one-eyed pirate guy btw)

[James8BitStar]

so basically the general consensus is....the game sucks balls, while we're on the topic of ball sucking goodness i wanna add xenogears to that list, when the fuck is this game going to pick up? this mind-numbing wackness better pay off soon or its back to hello kitty island adventures for me (im in the mines under the desert after it collapses with that one-eyed pirate guy btw)

Back in the day I loved Xenogears, but I tried to play it again six months ago and I couldn't stand it.

Though honestly I think the last Square game I could go all the way through was Final Fantasy VII. Not that it was particularly great, its just that FF7 was the beginning of Square's decline.

Square's PS1 games were basically the gaming equivalent of a Peter Jackson film--needlessly drawn out, and filled to the brim with prettyness and artsyness and pretentious attempts at depth, but utterly lacking in worthwhile content and totally unable to tell a story that anyone outside of self-aggrandizing pseudointellectuals who think analyzing a game makes them look smart would care about.

Xenogears at least has good music and breaks from the "Its like Alone in the Dark but with random battles" style of gameplay.

[TonyTheTiger]

Humor me.

You have to be kidding.

[Poofta!]

You have to be kidding.

im gonna have to agree with daria on this one. as both rpg collectors...
there are over 100 PS1 rpgs. many godawful but most are great. chrono cross definitely falls into the bottom 50% if not lower.


as for square ps1 rpgs, id say it was 50/50 as far as boring/drawn out vs great. ok maybe 65/35....

[gum_drops]

but i was under the impression that this was one of the greatest jrpgs ever made, i thought ppl loved this game, i remember it getting rave reviews when it was released....um i think???

I have not played it either but it was comments like these that really hyped it up back in 2000.

"Chrono Cross is a truly epic role-playing game experience that has cemented its place in the annals of RPG history." - ign.com

"In Chrono Cross, Square has created a game that is every inch the equal of its predecessor and the perfect complement to it" - ign.com

[TonyTheTiger]

im gonna have to agree with daria on this one. as both rpg collectors...
there are over 100 PS1 rpgs. many godawful but most are great. chrono cross definitely falls into the bottom 50% if not lower.


as for square ps1 rpgs, id say it was 50/50 as far as boring/drawn out vs great. ok maybe 65/35....

But for God's sake, issuing a challenge like that...over something I could very easily lie about regardless...is just pretty stupid. I'm not going to pretend I've played OMG EVERY GAME! Hell, if I did then that would make me a sad person. But I've played a large number. In fact, of all the RPGs I've played most were on the Playstation (and I don't think there are over 100 in the U.S.). And I found CC to be pretty enjoyable despite the list of flaws. And, as I read through, of all the posts in here, mine is the most specific as far as listing out the flaws. So I don't see what the big deal is. Now I have to provide a list of games to justify why I enjoy one in particular?

[EX-Soldier]

But for God's sake, issuing a challenge like that...over something I could very easily lie about regardless...is just pretty stupid. I'm not going to pretend I've played OMG EVERY GAME! Hell, if I did then that would make me a sad person. But I've played a large number. In fact, of all the RPGs I've played most were on the Playstation (and I don't think there are over 100 in the U.S.). And I found CC to be pretty enjoyable despite the list of flaws. And, as I read through, of all the posts in here, mine is the most specific as far as listing out the flaws. So I don't see what the big deal is. Now I have to provide a list of games to justify why I enjoy one in particular?

LOLLOLLOL DO IT!!!!!!

[16bitter]

Man, I wish I'd seen this a few days ago. I snagged a Playstation (my first one believe it or not) on ebay for ten bucks. I wanted to get a great RPG and ordered Chrono Cross. I never played Chrono Trigger, but I hear it was amazing, so I thought CC should be just as good.

The game hasn't arrived yet, but I'm already dreading putting it in.:bawling:

[blissfulnoise]

I liked Chrono Cross. A lot actually. But I absolutely adore RPGs that feature huge casts of characters with lots of strange abilities (see: Suikoden). But I'm more of a loot/grind/power-up fan than I am a story driven one and on that front, CC delivered. That said, some games with exceptional stories or characters that resonate with me will break through (Eternal Sonata's wacky premise was a recent example of this, as was Xenogears over the top story).

I played and enjoyed Chrono Trigger when it was released on the SNES but I never developed a real attachment to the game on the level you see all over the intarwebs now.

Regardless, I doubt too many people would be "disappointed" in playing Chrono Cross for the first time now, especially if they don't have a deep emotional investment in the paragon known as Chrono Trigger.

[carlcarlson]

The game hasn't arrived yet, but I'm already dreading putting it in.:bawling:

Well no offense, but that's kind of dumb. Deciding not to like a game before you've even played it makes no sense. I'd say do yourself a favor and actually play it before making up your mind, but I think your mind is already set.

[Press_Start]

But for God's sake, issuing a challenge like that...over something I could very easily lie about regardless...is just pretty stupid. I'm not going to pretend I've played OMG EVERY GAME! Hell, if I did then that would make me a sad person. But I've played a large number. In fact, of all the RPGs I've played most were on the Playstation (and I don't think there are over 100 in the U.S.). And I found CC to be pretty enjoyable despite the list of flaws. And, as I read through, of all the posts in here, mine is the most specific as far as listing out the flaws. So I don't see what the big deal is. Now I have to provide a list of games to justify why I enjoy one in particular?

My theory on Chrono Cross is that Square wanted a "one-of-a-kind" successor to Chrono Trigger with complex storyline, memorable characters, and "unique" battle system as the aforementioned. Instead traveling within one timeline, we jump between two timelines with the same time period as another aspect of the space-time continuum to explore. It all looked good on paper but two things really set the game back:

1. The battle system was confusing. I'll give respect to Square for trying something new, but who ever was in charge of the battle system didn't get the memo to come back down to earth. Half the time, I haven't gotten a clue and with over 30 characters to keep track, it was too much to take in. I'm sure pure hardcore RPG fans would love the challenge but it was a real turnoff for everyone else.

2. Story/variety or lack thereof. The concept in traveling between two parallel timelines was a fascinating concept. I was expecting the two to be different as night and day, in CC's case, its day and day after 1 hour. There was hardly any difference (besides characters) between the two from an overworld perspective and felt Square got lazy. The story itself was lackluster as it couldn't hold our attention or give us a hard grasp on what's going on.

I've played the game up to the part when you transform back from Lynx. After that, school got in the way and didn't think about it since.



Back in the day I loved Xenogears, but I tried to play it again six months ago and I couldn't stand it.


Is today Hate Squaresoft Day?



Square's PS1 games were basically the gaming equivalent of a Peter Jackson film--needlessly drawn out,
Oh yes, cause paying $50 and beating it within the same hour is a sign that I got my money's worth. :D



filled to the brim with prettyness and artsyness

Are we talking about Hello Kitty? Cause I've always described her as full of prettyness and artsyness!

Or was it hentai? :?



pretentious attempts at depth

That's what my cardboard cutout friends said after we had a round of flat soda and stale donuts. (Couldn't help but note, one of them was flat-chested.)



utterly lacking in worthwhile content and totally unable to tell a story that

It has been medically proven that ignorance has caused temporary blindness and loss of hearing resulting in blockage of information to the brain. As a defense mechanism, the brain fills the void with the substance called nonsense provided by the ego as it sees fit.



anyone outside of self-aggrandizing pseudointellectuals who think analyzing a game makes them look smart would care about.

Psst. Stop talking to the mirror.



Though honestly I think the last Square game I could go all the way through was Final Fantasy VII. Not that it was particularly great, its just that FF7 was the beginning of Square's decline.



Sarcasm aside. Square's stories, art, and concept are interesting, captivating, and mesmerizing. Back then, always felt I got my money's worth when I bought one of their games.

Nowadays, people was so bent on getting what they want as soon as possible, they often forget that the best stuff are the ones worth waiting for. Whether it be in video games, or in life.

My two cents.

[Kid Fenris]

I liked Chrono Cross. A lot actually. But I absolutely adore RPGs that feature huge casts of characters with lots of strange abilities (see: Suikoden). But I'm more of a loot/grind/power-up fan than I am a story driven one and on that front, CC delivered. That said, some games with exceptional stories or characters that resonate with me will break through (Eternal Sonata's wacky premise was a recent example of this, as was Xenogears over the top story).

I played and enjoyed Chrono Trigger when it was released on the SNES but I never developed a real attachment to the game on the level you see all over the intarwebs now.

Regardless, I doubt too many people would be "disappointed" in playing Chrono Cross for the first time now, especially if they don't have a deep emotional investment in the paragon known as Chrono Trigger.

I'm sorry, Blissfulnoise, but no one here is going to take your opinion seriously unless you can provide a list of every RPG you've ever played, annotated with photographic evidence and the testimonies of two eyewitnesses for each title.

[TonyTheTiger]

My theory on Chrono Cross is that Square wanted a "one-of-a-kind" successor to Chrono Trigger with complex storyline, memorable characters, and "unique" battle system as the aforementioned. Instead traveling within one timeline, we jump between two timelines with the same time period as another aspect of the space-time continuum to explore. It all looked good on paper but two things really set the game back:

1. The battle system was confusing. I'll give respect to Square for trying something new, but who ever was in charge of the battle system didn't get the memo to come back down to earth. Half the time, I haven't gotten a clue and with over 30 characters to keep track, it was too much to take in. I'm sure pure hardcore RPG fans would love the challenge but it was a real turnoff for everyone else.

I can see where someone would find the element system cumbersome. It does take more time to allocate a selection to a character where the outcome is to your liking. But the bright side is that the game is not particularly difficult so even if you pick the auto option and let the game do it for you you'll more than likely have enough variety of elements to handle 90% of the battles. The rest of the time it's mostly just obvious stuff. If you're walking into the Red Dragon boss fight you'll probably want a lot of blue elements.


2. Story/variety or lack thereof. The concept in traveling between two parallel timelines was a fascinating concept. I was expecting the two to be different as night and day, in CC's case, its day and day after 1 hour. There was hardly any difference (besides characters) between the two from an overworld perspective and felt Square got lazy. The story itself was lackluster as it couldn't hold our attention or give us a hard grasp on what's going on.

I didn't much mind the similarity between the worlds. It wasn't like World of Balance/World of Ruin or Light World/Dark World type of overt difference but the angle I think the game was going for was essentially the Butterfly Effect. That one slight change causes a multitude of other slight changes.

[G-Boobie]

Sarcasm aside. Square's stories, art, and concept are interesting, captivating, and mesmerizing. Back then, always felt I got my money's worth when I bought one of their games.

Nowadays, people was so bent on getting what they want as soon as possible, they often forget that the best stuff are the ones worth waiting for. Whether it be in video games, or in life.

My two cents.

... First off, your responses to James8's opinion makes you look like an incredible fucking twat. They're his opinions, troll-boy; he wasn't attacking you. If you don't like it, go back to fucking GameFAQs. We don't need that kind of abuse here.

Secondly, here's MY opinion: Square Enix RPG's, from the Playstation era forward, have been pretentious, poorly written, overly complicated and unevenly designed. Oftentimes the actual mechanics of the game will make up for it though: Vagrant Story, Final Fantasy Tactics, and Parasite Eve for example.

Let me be clear: absolutely none of the Square RPG stories have ever been anything other than 'acceptable and fun'. Then again, I've read actual books, so that might be my problem. And if you don't like spiky hair and zippers, then the art design is often lacking too.

No game, without exception, is worth ANYTHING if the actual act of playing the game, the nuts and bolts, the mechanics, are lacking. Chrono Cross, for me, fails in that regard. If it doesn't start rewarding me for playing within a short while of booting up, then fuck it: there are games that don't require me to slog through tedious bullshit before being fun. That isn't to say that I'm condemning Chrono Cross wholesale; if it works for you, great. I played it once, primarily for the music, and will never touch it again.

[Press_Start]

... First off, your responses to James8's opinion makes you look like an incredible fucking twat. They're his opinions, troll-boy; he wasn't attacking you. If you don't like it, go back to fucking GameFAQs. We don't need that kind of abuse here.


First off, James8's comment was an insult (the same way you're calling me a troll) by stating that ANYONE who remotely likes Square's RPG games should be called a jerk.

I felt insulted by it and disagreed with him by responding with sarcasm.



Secondly, here's MY opinion: Square Enix RPG's, from the Playstation era forward, have been pretentious, poorly written, overly complicated and unevenly designed. Oftentimes the actual mechanics of the game will make up for it though: Vagrant Story, Final Fantasy Tactics, and Parasite Eve for example.

Let me be clear: absolutely none of the Square RPG stories have ever been anything other than 'acceptable and fun'. Then again, I've read actual books, so that might be my problem. And if you don't like spiky hair and zippers, then the art design is often lacking too.


I'll give you that. Wasn't too thrilled with many of the mechanics with FF8 (i.e. card game, weapon system, money given within intervals?). After that, their games lacked substance with the exception of a few.

[Sudo]

... First off, your responses to James8's opinion makes you look like an incredible fucking twat. They're his opinions, troll-boy; he wasn't attacking you. If you don't like it, go back to fucking GameFAQs. We don't need that kind of abuse here.

Secondly, here's MY opinion: Square Enix RPG's, from the Playstation era forward, have been pretentious, poorly written, overly complicated and unevenly designed. Oftentimes the actual mechanics of the game will make up for it though: Vagrant Story, Final Fantasy Tactics, and Parasite Eve for example.

Let me be clear: absolutely none of the Square RPG stories have ever been anything other than 'acceptable and fun'. Then again, I've read actual books, so that might be my problem. And if you don't like spiky hair and zippers, then the art design is often lacking too.

No game, without exception, is worth ANYTHING if the actual act of playing the game, the nuts and bolts, the mechanics, are lacking. Chrono Cross, for me, fails in that regard. If it doesn't start rewarding me for playing within a short while of booting up, then fuck it: there are games that don't require me to slog through tedious bullshit before being fun. That isn't to say that I'm condemning Chrono Cross wholesale; if it works for you, great. I played it once, primarily for the music, and will never touch it again.

Xenogears is one of Square's best games and features neither spiky hair nor ziippers. ;) The story is excellent also, IMO.

[James8BitStar]

Is today Hate Squaresoft Day?

Nope, that was yesterday. If you wanted a hat, too bad.


Oh yes, cause paying $50 and beating it within the same hour is a sign that I got my money's worth. :D

Wow, I think you just zinged Contra's entire fanbase.


Are we talking about Hello Kitty? Cause I've always described her as full of prettyness and artsyness!

Or was it hentai? :?

Pedophilia and beastiality in one package? The horrors never cease!


That's what my cardboard cutout friends said after we had a round of flat soda and stale donuts. (Couldn't help but note, one of them was flat-chested.)

That one wasn't you, was it?

Oh wait, you're flat-brained. My mistake.


It has been medically proven that ignorance has caused temporary blindness and loss of hearing resulting in blockage of information to the brain. As a defense mechanism, the brain fills the void with the substance called nonsense provided by the ego as it sees fit.

An analysis worthy of Dr. House... an old, crooked-legged Dr. House who lived on life support and had gone senile years before.


Sarcasm aside. Square's stories, art, and concept are interesting, captivating, and mesmerizing.

... Every once in awhile.


Back then, always felt I got my money's worth when I bought one of their games.

even Rad Racer?


Nowadays, people was so bent on getting what they want as soon as possible, they often forget that the best stuff are the ones worth waiting for. Whether it be in video games, or in life.

Oh, I see. If you don't like Square, you must be a hyperactive ADD kid. It doesn't matter if you're an avid adventure gamer or if you play and enjoy non-Square RPGs. If you don't like Square, you just have no patience. Simple!

By the way... "people was"?


First off, James8's comment was an insult (the same way you're calling me a troll) by stating that ANYONE who remotely likes Square's RPG games should be called a jerk.

Except that I don't actually say that.

[Aussie2B]

For those who haven't bought or played Chrono Cross yet, I wouldn't take this topic as meaning that the general consensus is that the game stinks. Over the years since its release, I've viewed the response as pretty 50/50, so I'd say you have just as much of a chance of liking it as not. It can be divisive, but I wouldn't really say it's a love it or hate it kind of game either since there's a fair percentage of people that think it was just okay. Me, even though I didn't like it that much, I can't understand any intense hatred for it. It does enough right to be a mediocre game, maybe a smidge better, but it doesn't come close to be labeled as particularly good or great. There are plenty of worse RPGs on PlayStation, including worse ones from Squaresoft. Heck, I like it better than FFVII.

Not that I'm one to care about what everyone else thinks, but if you value that, there ya go.

[G-Boobie]

[...] Me, even though I didn't like it that much, I can't understand any intense hatred for it. It does enough right to be a mediocre game, maybe a smidge better, but it doesn't come close to be labeled as particularly good or great. There are plenty of worse RPGs on PlayStation, including worse ones from Squaresoft. Heck, I like it better than FFVII.


Most(not all!) of the people I've found who hate Chrono Cross hate it because it wasn't Chrono Trigger. I honestly think that's a pretty good reason myself; the game diverges so wildly(with, I grant you, a few dual tech concessions and a couple characters) from Chrono Trigger that it was hard not to feel disappointed. It almost felt as if Square Enix pulled a bait-and-switch.

There are a lot of very positive things about Chrono Cross, and it is, in retrospect, an OK game. But it's like your favorite band releasing a new album after a decade of inactivity, and it turns out 'OK'... You aren't going to respond as well as someone with no prior experience with the band in question because you'd have certain baggage and expectations. At least I would....

[Press_Start]

Oh, I see. If you don't like Square, you must be a hyperactive ADD kid. It doesn't matter if you're an avid adventure gamer or if you play and enjoy non-Square RPGs. If you don't like Square, you just have no patience. Simple!

No, that's just an observation I often see online and IRL. You wouldn't believe how many times I see someone constantly changing lanes, cutting vehicles, or running red lights. Or, how impatient customers when they don't get within the same second they demand, or clean up after trash they left on the floor.

Whatever happens to "good things come to those who wait"?



Except that I don't actually say that.

....that anyone outside of self-aggrandizing pseudointellectuals who think analyzing a game makes them look smart would care about.


Yeah, you did. You could have made your point without stating this.

[Daria]

But for God's sake, issuing a challenge like that...over something I could very easily lie about regardless...is just pretty stupid. I'm not going to pretend I've played OMG EVERY GAME! Hell, if I did then that would make me a sad person. But I've played a large number. In fact, of all the RPGs I've played most were on the Playstation (and I don't think there are over 100 in the U.S.). And I found CC to be pretty enjoyable despite the list of flaws. And, as I read through, of all the posts in here, mine is the most specific as far as listing out the flaws. So I don't see what the big deal is. Now I have to provide a list of games to justify why I enjoy one in particular?

It wasn't a command. I'm sincerely curious. Usually when someone says "X games is the best on X system" what they really mean is "X game is the best of these that I've played." And if I don't know what games you have played, I can't really recommend something better.

And I'm not saying the following describes you, so forewarning, but there are a good many gamers who have never played an RPG outside of Square's library. There are plenty of people who find a developer, or publisher that they're safe with and stick to it. I'm guilty of the same habit when it comes to authors. I just like introducing people to new games.

... and wow did this thread go to hell.

[TonyTheTiger]

It wasn't a command. I'm sincerely curious. Usually when someone says "X games is the best on X system" what they really mean is "X game is the best of these that I've played." And if I don't know what games you have played, I can't really recommend something better.

And I'm not saying the following describes you, so forewarning, but there are a good many gamers who have never played an RPG outside of Square's library. There are plenty of people who find a developer, or publisher that they're safe with and stick to it. I'm guilty of the same habit when it comes to authors. I just like introducing people to new games.

... and wow did this thread go to hell.

In general, my tastes vary widely. I can play a round of Madden and then thoroughly enjoy a few hours of Ar Tonelico. So, then, I'll give you a few examples of my tastes without mentioning Square. On the PSX, I've played some of the most mind numbing (Beyond the Beyond), pretty good but felt soulless (Tales of Destiny II/Eternia, Kartia), Pick-up-and-play kick ass (Vandal Hearts), Good idea with terrible execution (Vandal Hearts II), Fun in a stupid way (Thousand Arms), and just all around charming (Lunar, Star Ocean: TSS).

Ironically, both ToD2 and Kartia were my only RPG impulse buys for the console and it probably wasn't fair to group them together as the former is much much better I think. But I just had trouble getting passed the dopey characters and flat script. The first ToD, although having a worse battle engine, probably held my attention a little better. Also, Vandal Hearts is probably my favorite SRPG of all time.

The only "big names" on the console I haven't played that everyone raves about are both Personas and Suikoden II. Truthfully, I've never played a Shin Megami Tensei game, period, but have played Suikoden I and III on the PS2.

When I said CC was one of the best on the system, I was talking about how I'd probably put it on a top 10 list.

[James8BitStar]

No, that's just an observation I often see online and IRL. You wouldn't believe how many times I see someone constantly changing lanes, cutting vehicles, or running red lights. Or, how impatient customers when they don't get within the same second they demand, or clean up after trash they left on the floor.

Whatever happens to "good things come to those who wait"?

Oh. Well, that much I agree with, since the lack of patience is one of the reasons gaming has (IMO) gone downhill in the post-PS1 generation.


Yeah, you did. You could have made your point without stating this.

I diss people who over-analyze the plot of a video game (or expect such to be deep and philosophical). That says nothing about people who might enjoy Square for other reasons.

.... Now, just speaking generally and openly:

In many posts I see the allegation that most of the hate of Chrono Cross comes from people who were in love with Trigger.

Admittedly, when I first played Cross, I might have been in that camp. But at that time I hadn't played Trigger in almost a decade and didn't even have my Super Nintendo hooked up. Later on, I tried playing Cross not as a sequel, but rather just as its own game on its own merits. Still didn't work for me.

I'm not gonna go into a huge checklist of what I had against it--I'm sure if I did I'd just be reiterating things other people said better--just that, the game didn't fascinate me. It didn't seem to offer me anything compelling to hold on to.

Personally, I don't believe in "it gets better later." In my experience, if there's not anything too compelling in the first hour or so, its just not gonna get better. I have yet to see an exception.

[carlcarlson]

Personally, I don't believe in "it gets better later." In my experience, if there's not anything too compelling in the first hour or so, its just not gonna get better. I have yet to see an exception.

Yeah, my experience has been that this only really holds true if you play for story. Stories can change mid-game, but not many games will pull a 180 with gameplay. Stories are definitely important in rpgs obviously, but if the play mechanics aren't pulling me in then the best story in the world can't keep me going on a game.

I suppose the exception to this would be if a game is really story-heavy at first, or has a bunch of tutorials in the beginning. Some games do this (Star Ocean 2) and are boring as hell at first, but quickly pick up after that.

[Gabriel]

As a testament to how utter crap Chrono Chross is, I share the following anecdote.

I have a friend who is as into console RPGs as I am. Somehow I knew Chrono Cross was going to stink and avoided it, but he was madly in love with Chrono Trigger so bought CC as soon as it came out. He spent a couple of days on it, and then something strange happened.

Chrono Cross is the only RPG he ever sold. Ever. He took it to a pawn shop and immediately sold it. In his own words he sold it because "It's fucking horrible."

This is a guy who played crap like Vay, Beyond the Beyond, and Quest 64. He even played the crap out of that wretched Romancing SaGa game. He could usually find something redeemable in a turd. Yet, Chrono Cross bested him. It broke his optimism into tiny little bits.

It's probably not that bad, but it is certainly a piece of filth when compared with Chrono Trigger.

[EX-Soldier]

so like uh...we all friends now??? CAN WE HAVE CAKE?!?

[TonyTheTiger]

As a testament to how utter crap Chrono Chross is, I share the following anecdote.

I have a friend who is as into console RPGs as I am. Somehow I knew Chrono Cross was going to stink and avoided it, but he was madly in love with Chrono Trigger so bought CC as soon as it came out. He spent a couple of days on it, and then something strange happened.

Chrono Cross is the only RPG he ever sold. Ever. He took it to a pawn shop and immediately sold it. In his own words he sold it because "It's fucking horrible."

This is a guy who played crap like Vay, Beyond the Beyond, and Quest 64. He even played the crap out of that wretched Romancing SaGa game. He could usually find something redeemable in a turd. Yet, Chrono Cross bested him. It broke his optimism into tiny little bits.

It's probably not that bad, but it is certainly a piece of filth when compared with Chrono Trigger.

If your friend found something redeeming in Beyond the Beyond and Quest 64 but sold Chrono Cross because it was "fucking horrible" then he probably had his experience with it marred by his anticipation of Chrono Trigger 2. I find it unbelievable that a rational person could find Chrono Cross worse than those games unless said person had extremely precise expectations and found them dashed and thus felt cheated.

[MrSparkle]

Wow, I think you just zinged Contra's entire fanbase.





I've had contra for nes for.... oh i dunno 15 years now. I still haven't beaten it, anyone who can open contra and beat it within an hour deserves there own fanbase.

[James8BitStar]

Okay, wait. How the hell is Vay crap?

It's not exactly Final Fantasy IV but I wouldn't call Vay "bad" exactly.

I remember kinda-liking Quest 64, but it too never compelled me enough to actually beat it.

I'm not sure if I "play for storyline" or not. I like to hear a story but its not something I actively look for. I just like RPGs.


I've had contra for nes for.... oh i dunno 15 years now. I still haven't beaten it, anyone who can open contra and beat it within an hour deserves there own fanbase.

Allow me to revise my original statement:

Wow, I think you just zinged Mega Man's entire fanbase.

[sirhansirhan]

Let me be clear: absolutely none of the Square RPG stories have ever been anything other than 'acceptable and fun'. Then again, I've read actual books, so that might be my problem. And if you don't like spiky hair and zippers, then the art design is often lacking too.

You are maybe my favorite person who posts on this board.

[Aussie2B]

The whole "zazz" (zippers, belt buckles, etc.) argument doesn't really work in terms of this topic, though. That phenomenon began more with PS2 Squaresoft. I'd say The Bouncer was the real turning point for that. There's not too much of that on PS1 and definitely not with Chrono Cross. That's Nomura's forte, not Yuuki's.

[Lothars]

Let me be clear: absolutely none of the Square RPG stories have ever been anything other than 'acceptable and fun'. Then again, I've read actual books, so that might be my problem. And if you don't like spiky hair and zippers, then the art design is often lacking too.



You are maybe my favorite person who posts on this board.

Well It just mean your as wrong as he is