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megasdkirby
07-10-2008, 06:51 PM
I am thinking since the price will drop on July 15 or so, in picking up an Xbox 360. Or should I say, they (my family) will pick it up for me as a gift.

However, something troubles me. How is the RROD on recent consoles? I want one real bad (collected over 50 games for it thanks to Sears liquidation prices), but I am terrified of the RROD. I don't want a console to die on me in just a few months.

I heard that the units were much more stable and that there is a huge reduction of RROD, almost to the point of none. Is this true? Has the 45nm console variant been released?

Or should I wait a little longer for a console mobo redesign?

Finally, is the console still coming with two free games? And what is this of a possible 60GB version? Also, besides a bigger HDD, what is the actual difference between the Elite and Pro?

Thanks in advance!

Sudo
07-10-2008, 07:12 PM
The "Falcon" units that have been out since Fall I believe are much more reliable and less prone to the RRoD. I've had mine since February and have had no issues thus far. There is going to be a 60GB HDD sold, and a new SKU including it but I'm not sure of the price or when it'll be released. It doesn't come with any free games anymore, unfortunately. Lastly, the only difference between the Elite and the Pro is the size of the HDD and the fact that it's black instead of white.

Chuplayer
07-10-2008, 07:35 PM
The "Falcon" units that have been out since Fall I believe are much more reliable and less prone to the RRoD.

Many of them have succumbed to RROD, too. I would have never bought a 360 if I waited long enough for enough RROD problems to present themselves.

This wouldn't have been the case a year ago, but right now the 360's future is looking bleak. The RROD is a huge deterrent. Other hardware failure (and there's a lot of it) is an even bigger deterrent. There aren't a lot of must-have games coming out for it. Gears of War and Halo 3 are far from the killer apps they're made out to be. If you like paying for online gameplay, you're gonna love listening to 12 year old white suburban boys say nigger every 30 seconds while the wankers over in the UK leave you voice messages saying they're going to rip your bollocks off because you're better than they are. XBLA has lost all of its momentum. DRM issues still plague the console. The DRM "fix" is a plague in and of itself. Peripherals cost an arm and a leg. The dashboard keeps getting progressively worse with each update. While I don't have a problem with it personally, the console is LOUD. Then again, I had no problem with the screeching of the Dreamcast, so maybe I have more tolerance for this sort of thing.

Based on the above, I would skip the 360. Just don't get it. Ever. It was the king of this generation for a while, but now the king's not wearing any clothes, and that's just wrong. Also, don't get one thinking you're going to be playing it in 2018. I doubt there will be many systems that are still alive and kicking by that time. There is going to be no NES-like playing of games again when you're older. Hell, even the Saturn is going to outlive the 360.

I'm considering getting rid of my 360 and most of my 360 stuff while the getting's good. The only things holding me back are Guilty Gear 2 which is coming out in the fall and the 360 versions of Guitar Hero 2 and Rock Band. I'm not even sure about GG2 because I probably won't like it, so I might not even stick around for that. The music games are a thorn in my side, though. I really like playing them on the 360. I love the Xplorer guitar. When weighing my options, keeping the system for those two games wins out every time. But I could probably jimmy-rig my Xplorer to work with one or both PS3 guitars, and I never had a lot of DLC songs to begin with, so, I don't know. There's also the fact that GH2 360 is the only one that has Billion Dollar Babies, and I'm not sure I could live without that song.

Oh, by the way. I'm currently on my 3rd 360. No, I didn't think this was going to happen to me. It's like AIDS. Or herpes.

heybtbm
07-10-2008, 07:51 PM
Many of them have succumbed to RROD, too. I would have never bought a 360 if I waited long enough for enough RROD problems to present themselves.

This wouldn't have been the case a year ago, but right now the 360's future is looking bleak. The RROD is a huge deterrent. Other hardware failure (and there's a lot of it) is an even bigger deterrent. There aren't a lot of must-have games coming out for it. Gears of War and Halo 3 are far from the killer apps they're made out to be. If you like paying for online gameplay, you're gonna love listening to 12 year old white suburban boys say nigger every 30 seconds while the wankers over in the UK leave you voice messages saying they're going to rip your bollocks off because you're better than they are. XBLA has lost all of its momentum. DRM issues still plague the console. The DRM "fix" is a plague in and of itself. Peripherals cost an arm and a leg. The dashboard keeps getting progressively worse with each update. While I don't have a problem with it personally, the console is LOUD. Then again, I had no problem with the screeching of the Dreamcast, so maybe I have more tolerance for this sort of thing.

Based on the above, I would skip the 360. Just don't get it. Ever. It was the king of this generation for a while, but now the king's not wearing any clothes, and that's just wrong. Also, don't get one thinking you're going to be playing it in 2018. I doubt there will be many systems that are still alive and kicking by that time. There is going to be no NES-like playing of games again when you're older. Hell, even the Saturn is going to outlive the 360.

I'm considering getting rid of my 360 and most of my 360 stuff while the getting's good. The only things holding me back are Guilty Gear 2 which is coming out in the fall and the 360 versions of Guitar Hero 2 and Rock Band. I'm not even sure about GG2 because I probably won't like it, so I might not even stick around for that. The music games are a thorn in my side, though. I really like playing them on the 360. I love the Xplorer guitar. When weighing my options, keeping the system for those two games wins out every time. But I could probably jimmy-rig my Xplorer to work with one or both PS3 guitars, and I never had a lot of DLC songs to begin with, so, I don't know. There's also the fact that GH2 360 is the only one that has Billion Dollar Babies, and I'm not sure I could live without that song.

Oh, by the way. I'm currently on my 3rd 360. No, I didn't think this was going to happen to me. It's like AIDS. Or herpes.

I've heard about these online tantrums before...but have never seen one on DP until just now. Wow. How embarrassing.

Anyway...

Reality is basically the complete opposite of everything mentioned in the post above. Get a 360, you'll love it. If you need lots of storage space, I'd wait until the 60 gig hard drive comes out next month. Your call.

gepeto
07-10-2008, 07:56 PM
To be honest I havent heard much about the rrod in a while I think the bulk of the problematic ones are gone. I say get one and enjoy all it has offer.

megasdkirby
07-10-2008, 08:19 PM
I heard the same thing too, so I thought the 45nm version was already released. Unless this was just a cruel joke, which makes me :(.

Because I will be very honest: I really want a 360, but I am terrified that it will damage in a relatively short time. Heck, my Wii is getting many DRE's, and I barely play it! When I called Nintendo, one of the representatives admitted that it was a common issue! Wha!? He told me to send it back to Nintendo, postage paid by them, to "fix". But their "fix" might render my Freeloader useless, so I am very apprehensive about doing so.

In any case, going back to the 360, there are many games I would not mind playing, like DOA4 (I am a big fan) and Dead Rising. Don't care much for FPS games, other than the occasional horror one. Never was a Halo fan. Yet, I still want it. Same thing happened with the original Xbox...my first console, mostly FPS games, yet I love it! I've amassed over 200 games and still buying like crazy. I never regretted purchasing it. That is why I was thinking about the 360.

Also, never heard of the Falcon model. Now I know it's the 60nm version. I just read this on Wikipedia:


Xbox 360 consoles based on the "Falcon" motherboard feature a 65 nm CPU which reduces heat and has greater reliability over previous models. General hardware failure rates of the "Falcon" motherboard is rumored to be around 10%.

That is a very good sign, but is the number reliable? Also, they mention "General Hardware Failure"...so does this include the RROD, or the E74 error?

Cmosfm
07-10-2008, 09:02 PM
The RROD is still a problem, despite what others say, my just RROD'd again yesterday so I'm on my 3rd 360 in 2 years. So, what you get is a 360 with a 3 year warranty, and if you don't mind having to pay to get it fixed or just flat out replacing it every 4 years or so when it breaks after the warranty (and being without it for a month at a time for X number of times it does break on you), then get one.

Besides that, the console IS great, but I'm starting to think the PS3 is your best bet for a reliable console.

scooterb23
07-10-2008, 09:03 PM
Oh, by the way. I'm currently on my 3rd 360. No, I didn't think this was going to happen to me. It's like AIDS. Or herpes.

Holy hyperbole Batman! Seriously? A red ringing 360 is comparable to getting AIDS? Wow.

Anyway, ignoring that...my two cents is this:

You can never be 100% sure you're going to get working hardware no matter what system you want to buy. So suck it up, get the system, and get the games you want to play. If the thing breaks down (especially during the warranty period) then get it replaced. But if you sit around wringing your hands worrying about whether something may break, you're going to get sore hands and no achievement points for it.

For the record, I have had my 360 for over a year and a half, and I've had a lot of fun with it.

Jisho23
07-10-2008, 09:07 PM
Its strange so many people hav RROD'ed yet my console (which was used, has a used HD, and 2 use controlers... and about everything else) has yet to do so. I'd say don't let the RROD discourage as much as people will tell you; worst case you just get a new 360 and go play a different console for a week or so.

It is my favorite of the consoles out. Not saying much, but still.

Chuplayer
07-10-2008, 09:08 PM
I've heard about these online tantrums before...but have never seen one on DP until just now. Wow. How embarrassing.

Far be it from a tantrum. The 360 is just letting me down in so many ways. It was the mecca of this generation. Now it's dipped below the PS3 which isn't even that great to begin with. (The Wii seems to have carved out is own gaming subdemographic.) At least the PS3's store isn't useless and the dashboard is mostly easy to use. Not to mention the fact that PS3s don't die nearly as often.


Reality is basically the complete opposite of everything mentioned in the post above. Get a 360, you'll love it. If you need lots of storage space, I'd wait until the 60 gig hard drive comes out next month. Your call.

The reality is that two 360 consoles of mine succumbed to DVD drive issues, the second of which came that way straight from Microsoft themselves. Then the (apparently outsourced) tech support had the audacity to claim that my second console was working perfectly when the damn DVD tray wouldn't extend half the time. At least getting them to send me another coffin wasn't as hard as it with the first console. I literally asked the (apparently outsourced) tech support guy if the console had to be on fire for him to agree to take it back when he claimed that the console was working perfectly and held to that stance for a good 15 minutes. The 360 is an absolute joke.

I'm being absolutely serious here. I'm trying to save this guy money and aggravation. He said that he would like to play DOA4. DOA4 is the lowest point of the series. It peaked at DOA2 and has been downhill ever since. They even messed up DOA2 Ultimate. He says he wants the console despite it having FPSes that he doesn't like but wants to play anyway. I think he's just in love with the idea of owning a 360. Reality's going to bite him in the ass.

The 360 feels more like the fledgling first attempt that you would've expected the first XBOX to be, but since it's following up such a workhorse like the first one, it comes off as a lazy cash grab. It's really quite perplexing.

Chuplayer
07-10-2008, 09:11 PM
Holy hyperbole Batman! Seriously? A red ringing 360 is comparable to getting AIDS? Wow.

No, I'm saying that my mindset of "it's not going to happen to me" about the red ringing or other hardware problems is comparable to the mindset of "it's not going to happen to me" in people that get HIV.

josekortez
07-10-2008, 09:18 PM
Is it just me or do we see at least one of these "I'm planning/thinking/pondering/musing about buying an Xbox 360/PS3/Wii" threads per week?

carlcarlson
07-10-2008, 10:33 PM
Is it just me or do we see at least one of these "I'm planning/thinking/pondering/musing about buying an Xbox 360/PS3/Wii" threads per week?

Maybe not per week, but yeah, they pop up.

I'd buy one. If it has games you want to play then take the plunge. Hardware problems are probably still an issue, but MS also has a good warranty program in place so you'll be taken care of. I honestly don't see them doing a redesign any time soon so I think this is as good as it's going to get for awhile, if not period. Just make sure to give your system plenty of ventilation and don't go on day-long sprees. You should be ok.

Tommy
07-10-2008, 11:13 PM
Many of them have succumbed to RROD, too. I would have never bought a 360 if I waited long enough for enough RROD problems to present themselves.

This wouldn't have been the case a year ago, but right now the 360's future is looking bleak. The RROD is a huge deterrent. Other hardware failure (and there's a lot of it) is an even bigger deterrent. There aren't a lot of must-have games coming out for it. Gears of War and Halo 3 are far from the killer apps they're made out to be. If you like paying for online gameplay, you're gonna love listening to 12 year old white suburban boys say nigger every 30 seconds while the wankers over in the UK leave you voice messages saying they're going to rip your bollocks off because you're better than they are. XBLA has lost all of its momentum. DRM issues still plague the console. The DRM "fix" is a plague in and of itself. Peripherals cost an arm and a leg. The dashboard keeps getting progressively worse with each update. While I don't have a problem with it personally, the console is LOUD. Then again, I had no problem with the screeching of the Dreamcast, so maybe I have more tolerance for this sort of thing.

Based on the above, I would skip the 360. Just don't get it. Ever. It was the king of this generation for a while, but now the king's not wearing any clothes, and that's just wrong. Also, don't get one thinking you're going to be playing it in 2018. I doubt there will be many systems that are still alive and kicking by that time. There is going to be no NES-like playing of games again when you're older. Hell, even the Saturn is going to outlive the 360.

I'm considering getting rid of my 360 and most of my 360 stuff while the getting's good. The only things holding me back are Guilty Gear 2 which is coming out in the fall and the 360 versions of Guitar Hero 2 and Rock Band. I'm not even sure about GG2 because I probably won't like it, so I might not even stick around for that. The music games are a thorn in my side, though. I really like playing them on the 360. I love the Xplorer guitar. When weighing my options, keeping the system for those two games wins out every time. But I could probably jimmy-rig my Xplorer to work with one or both PS3 guitars, and I never had a lot of DLC songs to begin with, so, I don't know. There's also the fact that GH2 360 is the only one that has Billion Dollar Babies, and I'm not sure I could live without that song.

Oh, by the way. I'm currently on my 3rd 360. No, I didn't think this was going to happen to me. It's like AIDS. Or herpes.


:sob:, Some peoples kids?

I don't really care for one since I still play my original XBOX, The barebone set they sell over here is well worth it but since I picked up the PS3 I really don't see any games that jump out at me for X360. IMO, if someone buys it for you great, but if you buy it for yourself prepare for known problems.

boatofcar
07-10-2008, 11:21 PM
If I had to do it over again, I would have gotten a PS3. Actually, I wouldn't have gotten anything. I play my PS2 more than anything still. But at least with a PS3 you get a Blu Ray player. The problem with the 360 is it already has almost no resale value due to the upcoming price cut and the RROD problem. I got my 360 for XBLA, but the lag is so bad playing people back in the states that it's useless for anything other than games like Worms or Catan.

Here's some anectdotal evidence for your question. One of my friends bought a 360 in April, and it RRoD'd on him, so based of that I'd say that the Falcon units aren't any less succeptible than the other ones.

unwinddesign
07-10-2008, 11:39 PM
People are scared of the RRoD, but it's not a big deal. Microsoft will fix it for free. I've had three consoles, including one I bought at launch, and none of them have ever had an issue. I think the reports are overblown.

Icarus Moonsight
07-11-2008, 02:34 AM
I'd have a damn 360 by now if only it was simply built to a standard that even remotely approaches decent and reliable. Pay good money for a system that will last 3 years tops? No way. It's like a lease at slightly over $100 a year. Plus the +$50 a year Live sub and they are into my pocket for nearly $200 a year of use. I don't lease, I don't rent (not even "...to own"). I BUY DAMNIT! If you require a warranty for a safety net you are buying the wrong product!

I thought they fixed this shit already. :? Oh, well.

G-Boobie
07-11-2008, 02:44 AM
Its strange so many people hav RROD'ed yet my console (which was used, has a used HD, and 2 use controlers... and about everything else) has yet to do so. I'd say don't let the RROD discourage as much as people will tell you; worst case you just get a new 360 and go play a different console for a week or so.

It is my favorite of the consoles out. Not saying much, but still.

Are ye sure ye didn't buy a used 360 that had already been refurbished? Either way, I'm envious.


People are scared of the RRoD, but it's not a big deal. Microsoft will fix it for free. I've had three consoles, including one I bought at launch, and none of them have ever had an issue. I think the reports are overblown.

Yes to the first point, and it's only a matter of time on the second. I'm on console number three myself, though I've only gotten the RRoD twice. Once the disc drive lens started destroying my sixty dollar games and MS wanted me to pay one hundred and sixty dollars to fix it.

That console magically developed the RRoD somehow. "Oh, and Jeeves, if you could fix that fucking DVD drive while you're already under the hood...?"

Even with the hardware failures, the console is excellent. I love the 360 controller; it's the current pinnacle of controller design in my opinion, and the XBL interface is buttery smooth. As long as you claim RRoD for ANY FAILURE AT ALL, you're gold.

carlcarlson
07-11-2008, 07:15 AM
The problem with the 360 is it already has almost no resale value due to the upcoming price cut and the RROD problem.

Minor point, but for what it's worth I can sell 360s without a hard drive for $210 all day long.


It's like a lease at slightly over $100 a year. Plus the +$50 a year Live sub and they are into my pocket for nearly $200 a year of use.

That is some strange math you've got there!

Icarus Moonsight
07-11-2008, 07:51 AM
It's not strange. It's less than $200 on it's face but, once you factor in time wasted, gas spent dropping the coffin off at a Fed Ex/UPS drop site, returning to pick up the refurb and recompence for the interim time without something you already paid for to use - ~$200 a year seems a fair estimation in my eyes. Also noting that the issue may not be related to RRoD and something may have to come out of your pocket. I'm not even sure whether you're responsible for any shipping charges. So it could possibly be more. O_O

What I find strange is the number of people that think it's alright to spend that kind of cash on something that is nearly guaranteed to fail because it's warrantied for three years... Makes me almost interested enough to check if sometime before the 360's launch Microsoft Corp all the sudden decided to buy shares in KY or Astroglide. Look Marge! You get a free warranty and a big rubber MS dick in your ass! Awesome, can't pass this shit up. :frustrated:

I feel sorry for the folks that got in at launch before the warranty deal was offered. Cause many of them just got the big old dick. Strange indeed. :bullshit:

This should be fixed (should have been already, more like) then I'd have no issues with picking one up. If I didn't want to play some of the games it has on it I wouldn't be so bent up about this crap.

s1lence
07-11-2008, 07:58 AM
My two cents as I'm sick as fuck of these threads.

I have 3 360's, One original and two 60nm ones. The original just had RRoD three weeks ago. This is after approx 3000+ hours of use. It was on almost everyday (if it wasn't the others were) and it worked fine. When I got RRoD, I just laughed, its SOooooo blown out of porportion. Get one, you will really enjoy it. It has an excellent library of games and if you pony up for xbox live you will have a blast.

Chuplayer, you have a very jaded view of reality. The PS3 has NO WHERE NEAR the following that the 360 has currently. It is a good blu-ray player though.

Emuaust
07-11-2008, 08:04 AM
Chuplayer, HARDEN THE FUCK UP...

segagamer4life
07-11-2008, 10:26 AM
My two cents as I'm sick as fuck of these threads.

I have 3 360's, One original and two 60nm ones. The original just had RRoD three weeks ago. This is after approx 3000+ hours of use. It was on almost everyday (if it wasn't the others were) and it worked fine. When I got RRoD, I just laughed, its SOooooo blown out of porportion. Get one, you will really enjoy it. It has an excellent library of games and if you pony up for xbox live you will have a blast.

Chuplayer, you have a very jaded view of reality. The PS3 has NO WHERE NEAR the following that the 360 has currently. It is a good blu-ray player though.


I gotta say I agree, my 360 gets the most run of my current systems, ps3 and wii combined I think I have logged maybe 4 hours this year. The bottom line is the 360 is afforable, fun, and has a great game library, the other guys can't say that right now. Live is FUN flat out, and well worth the 50 imo. So its up to you what you want to do with your hard earnerd $$ but in my book the 360 is a great and more importantly fun investment.

swlovinist
07-11-2008, 10:39 AM
Owner of a 360 since day -2 of launch. It works fine thank God. I won mine from Mt. Dew in a contest. I love the system, and the 360 while it is not perfect by any means, is a good system. The 360 is full of great shooters, racing, and sports titles. It also is starting to get a decent RPG base as well. If you dont like the above, then get a wii for some party games. Everyone has their own opinion of which system is the best, but I think if you bought a 360 you would not be dissappointed. Alot of great games on it for under $20 used is also something to consider.

unwinddesign
07-11-2008, 01:20 PM
It's only a matter of time before I get the red ring? Don't think so.

I've played 1000+ hours of X360 since launch and I haven't seen the RRoD. That's not saying it doesn't happen, but it's oh so questionable when I see failure rates of "omg WTFZ every CONSOLEZ" or "omg 50% are dead." Bullshit, I say, and I have the experience with three consoles (with no special treatment) to boot.

Now, my friend, who kept his fucking Xbox 360 on the carpet in his dorm room, he got the RRoD in about two weeks. I think a lot of these fucking problems are because people are douchebags and treat their console like shit. That's not to say that you won't get one anyway (or that I treat my console particularly "baby-like"), but I think more than a few of these reports are just because people are too fucking lazy/stupid/whatever to take steps to prevent it.

People SHOULD talk about the glitches in the 360 that cause random freezes etc. which actually happen (not during most recent games) and can be a total buzzkill. But instead they talk about these issues that Joystiq, Kotaku etc. report and hundreds of people who don't have a 360 suddenly are shouting "RRoD!!!"

It's a fucking piece of $300 machinery, anyway -- I don't expect it to last forever. If I get the RRoD or it dies after five years, who honestly gives a shit? That's more than most products will last without some sort of maintenance or tweaking. Look at a PC -- you know how fucked up most of them get after like 2 or 3 years? It's because people are retards and treat them like shit. I suspect something similar with the 360. It's not a fucking tank like the N64, so don't treat it like one.

[to those who have had RRoD and aren't idiots or hyperbole mongering jackasses, this is not directed at you. I know the problem exists. Believe me.]

lendelin
07-11-2008, 02:25 PM
My two cents as I'm sick as fuck of these threads.

I have 3 360's, One original and two 60nm ones. The original just had RRoD three weeks ago. This is after approx 3000+ hours of use. It was on almost everyday (if it wasn't the others were) and it worked fine. When I got RRoD, I just laughed, its SOooooo blown out of porportion. Get one, you will really enjoy it. It has an excellent library of games and if you pony up for xbox live you will have a blast.


Are you serious? The RRoD is blown out of proportion? You just got used to the fact that 60%+x of the systems break down, and you accept it.

I can tell you that I did NOT laugh when my system broke down six weeks ago, and I still haven't replaced it because I know I can count the months when the refurbished system breaks down. In the next couple of days I'll make the phone call so I can eagerly await the "new" system.

In over twenty years of gaming this is the first system which broke down on me. I spent $400 on a system which is prone to fail because of serious hardware flaws, in my book I threw $400 out of the window.

The failure rate is outrageous and not acceptable. A failure rate of 3% to 5% is acceptable for electronics, a failure rate of around 80% is a BIG rip off.

My reaction wasn't a good laugh; I decided to buy every multiplatform game I'm interested in for the PS3; except for extreme good clearance prices MS won't see a dime from me for the 360 in the next year. Like a good boy I'll wait until I get the games cheap, even the exclusives I really want to play like the new Ninja Gaiden.

The 360 has a great game library; exclusive RPGs I really want to play among many others, but my 360 sits on the shelf and I'm not able to play the games. If the console doesn't work, great games aren't great games because you can't play them.

How many serious mistakes can a console manufacturer make until gamers feel ripped off? Gamers should punish these manufacturers with their wallet...that's what I do.

lendelin
07-11-2008, 02:49 PM
I've played 1000+ hours of X360 since launch and I haven't seen the RRoD.

I've played my 360 very often and it lasted exactly one year and 11 months.


That's not saying it doesn't happen, but it's oh so questionable when I see failure rates of "omg WTFZ every CONSOLEZ" or "omg 50% are dead."

A realistic estimation of the failure rate is even higher than your number that you call ridiculous. Was often discussed on here based on various sources, and people who repair the systems confirmed it. This is not anecdotal evidence or hysteria.


Now, my friend, who kept his fucking Xbox 360 on the carpet in his dorm room, he got the RRoD in about two weeks. I think a lot of these fucking problems are because people are douchebags and treat their console like shit.

I can assure you that you didn't treat your console more carefully than I did mine. Airflow was ideal, I even put little wooden blocks (3/4") under the system so it had airflow underneath. I got the RRoD, the system lasted almost two years. I can assure you that in all likelihood you'll get it too -- if not you won the lottery. Problem is a purchase of an electronic product shouldn't be an entrance fee for a lottery.


It's a fucking piece of $300 machinery, anyway -- I don't expect it to last forever. If I get the RRoD or it dies after five years, who honestly gives a shit?

This screams irrational denial and euphemistic attitude.


That's more than most products will last without some sort of maintenance or tweaking. Look at a PC -- ....

Nonsense.

Chuplayer
07-11-2008, 03:39 PM
Chuplayer, HARDEN THE FUCK UP...

Emuaust, BUY MY 360 FOR FULL YEAR 2006 RETAIL PRICE AND WE'LL SEE...

s1lence
07-11-2008, 03:43 PM
So you had your system fail but you haven't replaced it yet (for free) because you think the replacement is going to fail??

Let's talk about irrational........

I never said the system was bullet proof, my point is if you get the RRoD, you can get it fixed or replaced. Fuck, PS2's have some of the worst constuction ever in a system, I know I have 5 dead ones. My point is that if can be fixed, not getting one fixed because the replacement COULD fail is just silly.

Now before you just flame me over, I do understand the frustration of a system failing, I just don't understand why you haven't gotten it fixed.

I would agree though, the percentage of failure is way too high for a piece of modern electronics.

s1lence
07-11-2008, 03:45 PM
Emuaust, BUY MY 360 FOR FULL YEAR 2006 RETAIL PRICE AND WE'LL SEE...

I did.....twice.

PapaStu
07-11-2008, 03:54 PM
Chu,
Emuhaust lives in Australia, so by default he's already paying more for his 360 than you have for yours.


People, There are problems with 360's. We all know this, many have had the dreaded RRoD or have experienced some other issue (my drive died after it gouged 4 discs practically to death). The problems are indictive of numerous issues that MS has faced in manufacturing. They arn't making the systems directly, other companies are. The sytems that are coming out of these factories have to adhere to certain tests, but if they are mis-manufacturing systems ( like many did in the beginning) and they are surviving long enough to pass Q/A, we the consumer will be the ones feeling the brunt of broken equiptment and not the factory Q/A teams. As MS rushed the system development to get this out of the gate first we've begun to experience the serious flaws of the systems. Yes the early ones were prone to RRoD failures (numbers were closer to 30% by guesstimation lendelin, not 60%+) and the newer Elites and Faclon systems have also come into some issues of late as well.

Is it a hastle that our systems are dying? Yes it is. Is it alright that most everyones systems that are dying (I said most not all, /me tips his hat to IceBrkr's ded system) are getting repaired for free, save for a few weeks that they are gone? Yes it is. At least Microsoft aknowledged the glaring issues and made some steps to correct the huge design flaws.

Do I like my 360? Yes I do, I play it nightly. Is it the best thing next to sliced bread? Oh hellz no. Am I biased towards it in one way or the other? Not in the slightest.

Everyone needs to stop slinging the shit at each other. It doesn't do anyone ANY GOOD. If you system is a good and happy one, then say so and move on, if its got issues, than say so and leave it be. Your opinion is not the law, and these threads (yes they do happen a little to often even for my tastes) just want to know opinions. Say your piece, correct incorrect thoughts WITH FACTS and let the OP make their own decision.

This is a dead horse that doesn't need to be beaten anymore than it already has.

Jisho23
07-11-2008, 03:56 PM
I think rule of thumb; if you are really that on the fence on buying something this expensive its probably not a good idea to buy it.

lendelin
07-11-2008, 04:08 PM
So you had your system fail but you haven't replaced it yet (for free) because you think the replacement is going to fail??

Let's talk about irrational........

That's not irrational or "silly" at all. It is based on realistic experience. The basic hardware flaw in refurbished systems is still there, the failure rate for these systems seem to be as bad as for the original ones. If the new refurbished system lasts one year and then breaks down I'm still out of $400.


Fuck, PS2's have some of the worst constuction ever in a system, I know I have 5 dead ones.

I'm aware of the hardware problems the PS2 had, they don't even come close to the 360.


I do understand the frustration of a system failing, I just don't understand why you haven't gotten it fixed.

I have 15 systems connected and I have games for them all. I have alternatives. Recently I'm playing Gran Turismo online like crazy, and I started Nocturne. To play 360 games is not urgent.

The day my system broke down I found for very cheap Moto GP 07, Lost Planet, and Harry Potter OotPhoenix, wanted to try them out, and I stared in the little Red Ring after almost two years. The motivation to get it fixed right away is very low considering my gaming options, I take my time for a refurbished system which will last (if I'm lucky) two years, then I'm still out of money.

...and you call my reaction irrational and silly? I don't think so.

Chuplayer
07-11-2008, 05:43 PM
Chu,
Emuhaust lives in Australia, so by default he's already paying more for his 360 than you have for yours.

True but irrelevant.

Press_Start
07-11-2008, 05:48 PM
Let's not forget the PS2 had frequent failures with their early models. I bought mine in the summer of 2001 and its works fine after seven years but has DRE with a few games (Gradius 5 and Chrono Cross). Sony did redeem themselves with by correcting hardware problems in their slim models.

Now, XBox 360 is in the same boat and its too early to pass judgement. Depending on how Microsoft handles their 360 and its problems in the next few years will prove whether the system deserves redemption or damnation.

As for the OP, I'm guessing you don't want your family/friends to waste money on a birthday gift that you're not going like in the near future. My advice is have them give you money and hold on it until you're certain about the system you want.

That's my two cents.

unwinddesign
07-11-2008, 11:31 PM
Blah blah blah

Whatever, man. I'm not in denial. Why would I give a crap if the 360 breaks down a ton? What does that do for me, exactly? Do I win points if the 360 is, suddenly, not RRoDing? That's Microsoft's problem. I'm just giving you the facts.

Fact: 3 systems owned. 0 RRoD.
Fact: Owned Xbox 360 since launch. I left one 360 on for two straight weeks by accident. It was fine.
Fact: Internet blows shit out of proportion.
Fact: Most consumer products are not built to last.
Fact: There are no accurate numbers [lots of speculation] about how many consoles RRoD.

Lastly, I said that my comments weren't directed at those who have RRoD'd and done anything in their power to avoid it. Whatever. That sucks. Too bad. Five years / 400 = $80 a year. Call that irrational, call it whatever, but $80 definitely isn't a ton of money. And there's a warranty. That will fix your problems. For free.

garagesaleking!!
07-12-2008, 12:22 AM
the 360 is an awesome console, and i agree the rrod is blown out of proportion.

just get one

All Things Sega
07-12-2008, 12:45 AM
The 360 is a good system with great games but the quality of it sucks ass. Who designed a system that's more brittle internally than an aneroxic olsen twin ughh As for the RROD being overblown, I doubt. I own the original xbox and that brick is still working fine. Been through 2 360's and I keep all my systems immaculate. Actually take care of all my electronics. After second failure, just sold off the 360. Couldn't deal with all the problems and waiting. Have seen friends and others have same problem. So I doubt the RROD is a rare occurence. If you have no problems, consider yourself lucky and enjoy the system and games while you can. Wanted to Microsoft to do well to give some compeition to the others but now their just raping us with their shady ways.

As one member mentioned, pcs have more problems because of retards and stuff and don't last long. Well the blame lies in Microsoft for sending out shitty and buggy software and updates and then letting you wait for fixes. Just yesterday received updates for windows and next day inlaws couldnt sign on. They contatced Verizon and 1st message on their system is anyone downloading the windows update will not be able to connect to internet because Microsoft automatically restored everyones setting to the highest setting. Briliant huh! Guess I'm off on a tangent but just trying to show that Microsoft is using the same shitty tactics from its pc way and into the gaming world. So if your waiting for Microsoft to change its way and deliver high quality product, just hold on and keep waiting.

Vinnysdad
07-12-2008, 12:47 AM
the 360 is an awesome console, and i agree the rrod is blown out of proportion.

just get one


I honestly wish I had never wasted my money on such an "awesome" console. My original 360 lasted almost a year and my replacement about 4 months. The replacement is boxed up and ready to go to Texas and when it comes back I am really considering trading it in towards a PS3.

G-Boobie
07-12-2008, 04:00 AM
I've had three of the fucking things. Two got the Ring, and I lied to Microsoft and told them the third one did too when the DVD drive started killing my games. I don't know anyone at all who has a 360 who hasn't had to replace it. No hyperbole, no exaggeration for effect.

Still, they've all replaced their 360's and play them often. Me too. The games are where it's at, son, and I can't play Ninja Gaiden II or Senko no Ronde anywhere else. The controller is great, Live is fun as long as you throw out your headset, and it's now affordable. The console is guaranteed to last at least three years or Microsoft replaces it. It's a good deal.

I went through two original Playstations because of bad lenses. I still love the Playstation though, because the games you could play on it were fantastic and unavailable anywhere else. I've gone through three 360's, and I keep on soldiering because I like to play Crackdown, Ninja Gaiden II, Bioshock, Halo 3, Ikaruga and Rez HD.

robotriot
07-12-2008, 08:33 AM
I bought mine in late December last year, and still haven't experienced any problems so far. So I'd say go for it, it's definitely worth it.

Emuaust
07-12-2008, 04:02 PM
Emuaust, BUY MY 360 FOR FULL YEAR 2006 RETAIL PRICE AND WE'LL SEE...

Bought mine launch day, paid a shit load more then you did for yours and had the RROD,
a little pissed yes but fuck me no ned to rub ya nipples, seriously I rang MS up they fixed it,
I moved on.

Just so you know I have a PS3 and love it, its an awsome machine, but the 360 rrod complaints by the likes of you seem childish and stupid, woops hold on a minute maybe Im describing YOU!

lendelin
07-12-2008, 04:03 PM
Whatever, man. I'm not in denial. Why would I give a crap if the 360 breaks down a ton? What does that do for me, exactly? Do I win points if the 360 is, suddenly, not RRoDing? That's Microsoft's problem. I'm just giving you the facts.

Fact: 3 systems owned. 0 RRoD.
Fact: Owned Xbox 360 since launch. I left one 360 on for two straight weeks by accident. It was fine.
Fact: Internet blows shit out of proportion.
Fact: Most consumer products are not built to last.
Fact: There are no accurate numbers [lots of speculation] about how many consoles RRoD.

Lastly, I said that my comments weren't directed at those who have RRoD'd and done anything in their power to avoid it. Whatever. That sucks. Too bad. Five years / 400 = $80 a year. Call that irrational, call it whatever, but $80 definitely isn't a ton of money. And there's a warranty. That will fix your problems. For free.

Fact: some people believe that Uri Geller can bend spoons and move objects with his mindpower

Fact: some people believe in Bigfoot and the Easter Bunny

Fact: there are greetings cards sold with the Easter Bunny on it, and there are posters with Bigfoot on them

Fact: some people believe that certain people can talk to the dead

Fact: people are 'cured' by homeopathic medicine

Fact: people are gathering in ancient ruins holding crystal skulls in anticipation that aliens will show up

Fact: some people believe that the 360 is a reliable system, and if not so, they don't "give a crap if the 360 breaks down a ton"

gepeto
07-12-2008, 04:14 PM
Well all of my friends about 8 including me had to return our original 360's. The fact that Microsoft acknowledge there is a problem I would say is proof enough. The reason why it blew up like it did was the fact that people were spending up to 400.00 and warranties were initially short and people demanded an answer and service.

Overblown nah. 1 working 360 with 3000 hours doesn't negate the 1000's that failed. They did right by offering 3 year replacement for rrod. All one has to do is ask the man that does the returns. MR UPS. There unbiased and they will tell you it is or was off the hook at how many coffins were flying back and forth.

Knoxximus
07-12-2008, 04:32 PM
Just wait for Jasper folks...it will be here soon. 8)

Then you won't have to deal with Hillary RRoDham ever again (hopefully).

Chuplayer
07-12-2008, 04:40 PM
paid a shit load more then you did for yours

Again, true but irrelevant. People should stop using that as a justification.


and had the RROD,
a little pissed yes but fuck me no ned to rub ya nipples, seriously I rang MS up they fixed it,
I moved on.

I rang up MS twice, got the runaround, and got one broken console right out of the box for my troubles. I was more than a little pissed.


Just so you know I have a PS3 and love it, its an awsome machine, but the 360 rrod complaints by the likes of you seem childish and stupid, woops hold on a minute maybe Im describing YOU!

No, they sound like valid complaints to me.

unwinddesign
07-12-2008, 07:33 PM
Fact: some people believe that Uri Geller can bend spoons and move objects with his mindpower

Fact: some people believe in Bigfoot and the Easter Bunny

Fact: there are greetings cards sold with the Easter Bunny on it, and there are posters with Bigfoot on them

Fact: some people believe that certain people can talk to the dead

Fact: people are 'cured' by homeopathic medicine

Fact: people are gathering in ancient ruins holding crystal skulls in anticipation that aliens will show up

Fact: some people believe that the 360 is a reliable system, and if not so, they don't "give a crap if the 360 breaks down a ton"

Why don't you just admit that you were wrong instead of bringing this bullshit?

Oh wait...

Because you know that you were full of crap from the beginning and have nothing to back up your hearsay, half-truths and totally BS statements. I'm not dismissing the RRoD. It's a problem. As major as people say it is? I seriously, seriously question that. The laws of proportionality and statistics are not on my side, owning 3 consoles, that I would escape the RRoD with such ludicrously conjectured failure rates. It makes no mathematical sense whatsoever. Especially considering I have had 3 of the old, non-Falcon 360s. And that none have received any kind treatment whatsoever. For fuck's sake, one had bong water spilled on it. And it still works. Problem? Yes. Epidemic? Maybe even borderline. OMG WTFZ 70% of consoleZ ARE BROKENZ? Yeah, whatever.

Princess-Isabela
07-12-2008, 08:38 PM
Many of them have succumbed to RROD, too. I would have never bought a 360 if I waited long enough for enough RROD problems to present themselves.

This wouldn't have been the case a year ago, but right now the 360's future is looking bleak. The RROD is a huge deterrent. Other hardware failure (and there's a lot of it) is an even bigger deterrent. There aren't a lot of must-have games coming out for it. Gears of War and Halo 3 are far from the killer apps they're made out to be. If you like paying for online gameplay, you're gonna love listening to 12 year old white suburban boys say nigger every 30 seconds while the wankers over in the UK leave you voice messages saying they're going to rip your bollocks off because you're better than they are. XBLA has lost all of its momentum. DRM issues still plague the console. The DRM "fix" is a plague in and of itself. Peripherals cost an arm and a leg. The dashboard keeps getting progressively worse with each update. While I don't have a problem with it personally, the console is LOUD. Then again, I had no problem with the screeching of the Dreamcast, so maybe I have more tolerance for this sort of thing.

Based on the above, I would skip the 360. Just don't get it. Ever. It was the king of this generation for a while, but now the king's not wearing any clothes, and that's just wrong. Also, don't get one thinking you're going to be playing it in 2018. I doubt there will be many systems that are still alive and kicking by that time. There is going to be no NES-like playing of games again when you're older. Hell, even the Saturn is going to outlive the 360.

I'm considering getting rid of my 360 and most of my 360 stuff while the getting's good. The only things holding me back are Guilty Gear 2 which is coming out in the fall and the 360 versions of Guitar Hero 2 and Rock Band. I'm not even sure about GG2 because I probably won't like it, so I might not even stick around for that. The music games are a thorn in my side, though. I really like playing them on the 360. I love the Xplorer guitar. When weighing my options, keeping the system for those two games wins out every time. But I could probably jimmy-rig my Xplorer to work with one or both PS3 guitars, and I never had a lot of DLC songs to begin with, so, I don't know. There's also the fact that GH2 360 is the only one that has Billion Dollar Babies, and I'm not sure I could live without that song.

Oh, by the way. I'm currently on my 3rd 360. No, I didn't think this was going to happen to me. It's like AIDS. Or herpes.

oh brother...one of the worst posts I've seen in a long time.
I've had 4 360's(each for few months) and not one gave me any problems(been selling them and buying again, first bought in 2005 november and sold it last year).
this system has everything awesome console should have, library of games is just fantastic.
360's to me are as reliable as any other system out there.
maybe people don't know how to take care of their stuff?

Chuplayer
07-12-2008, 09:53 PM
oh brother...one of the worst posts I've seen in a long time.
I've had 4 360's(each for few months) and not one gave me any problems(been selling them and buying again, first bought in 2005 november and sold it last year).

You probably didn't have the systems long enough to see any problems.


this system has everything awesome console should have, library of games is just fantastic.

It's decent, but whatever. It's pointless to argue how much we like the games.


360's to me are as reliable as any other system out there.

Because you only keep them for a few months at a time. Mine worked great for a few months, too, as well as many other people.


maybe people don't know how to take care of their stuff?

Maybe MS sent me a broken replacement? Oh wait, they definitely sent me a broken replacement.

There are two ways to look at the 360. You can either be upset that the system is poorly made and totally unreliable, or you can say that it's not so bad to be without it for a month for every time your console breaks down which can be quite often because it's an embarrassingly unreliable piece of electronics. People who buy cars that behave like 360 consoles tend to be upset with their purchase. I don't see why people who buy 360 consoles that behave like 360 consoles shouldn't be upset, too.

unwinddesign
07-12-2008, 10:13 PM
To end this stupid, never ending argument, here are the numbers (to date):

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3166259

16%. That's one in six. Unacceptably high? Perhaps for some (it's about 4 times as much as most consumer electronics). The article says it will also probably get higher with time, since it's a stress issue that causes RRoD. So the more you play, the weaker it gets. This all makes sense.

16% however, does not equal 50%, does not equate to "all," and, for me -- with the warranty covering the RRoD, which accounted for 60% of total failures -- it's a moot point. I have not had any problems. Other people's mileage may vary. Most reliable console ever? No. Worth it for the games it has on it? For me, yes. I love it.

For others is it worth it? Maybe not. For you to decide. But those are the facts (as I've been saying all along). It exists. A lot. But not as much as everyone would lead you to believe.

The end.

lendelin
07-12-2008, 10:17 PM
The laws of proportionality and statistics are not on my side...

...that is not your problem. Your problem is that reasoning and brainpower are not on your side.

Princess-Isabela
07-12-2008, 10:19 PM
You probably didn't have the systems long enough to see any problems.


first system had for nearly two years, and it didn't give me any problems.
still saying I had it for short period of time?

lendelin
07-12-2008, 10:21 PM
To end this stupid, never ending argument, here are the numbers (to date):

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3166259



That is old news, we discussed the pro and cons of the 16% already. I was well aware of this number of the warranty company, together with other sources and reports also already discussed the number is WAY higher.

unwinddesign
07-13-2008, 01:18 AM
That is old news, we discussed the pro and cons of the 16% already. I was well aware of this number of the warranty company, together with other sources and reports also already discussed the number is WAY higher.

Cite your source. That isn't you. Or what you've seen with your friends.

...oh wait, you can't.

Next time, stop making oh-so [not] witty clever jokes about my intelligence or whatever else to obscure the facts. You're full of shit, and you know it. Have a nice day.

Icarus Moonsight
07-13-2008, 02:08 AM
I'm sorry, I want better than roulette odds when I purchase something for entertainment that costs that much. You can go ahead and bet on red if you want. Don't expect me to do the same. A fool and his money... Is it that unreasonable to expect this to have been addressed (done) and fixed (not done) already? Not so sure about that. Their fix is half-assed, just like their console's design.

This keeps up and Microsoft is going to lose 2nd slot to Sony eventually.

I'm sure 16% doesn't include data from multiple refurb recipients. Got 3 refurbs? That counts as one! LOL Bullshit. 16% is minimal if not an outright corp spun lie. Why the admission of a problem and the offering of a warranty if it's blown out of proportion? More bullshit me sez. Besides even the 16% dream rate is too fucking high!

Say you decide to bake cookies for a living and almost 1 of 5 taste like shit. How long before people refuse to purchase or even eat (if free) your cookies? A friend of yours may even offer some gentle advice incognito as a question, "Ever think of making something else?" then even offer some reasoning, "You know why so many people love Oreo cookies?.... Have you ever had a bad one?" LOL You'd still have a few customers who managed to dodge the shitty cookie bus so far, but it's only a matter of time. All I'm sayin'.

Knoxximus
07-13-2008, 03:03 AM
You'd still have a few customers who managed to dodge the shitty cookie bus so far, but it's only a matter of time. All I'm sayin'.

EPIC.:hail:

Chuplayer
07-13-2008, 07:57 AM
first system had for nearly two years, and it didn't give me any problems.
still saying I had it for short period of time?

You said it yourself, you have been buying and selling them for some reason. You didn't specify how long you had any particular one. You just said "a few months." Excuse me for not possessing the clairvoyance to know how long you had your first system.

AllSchoolGamer
07-13-2008, 10:57 AM
Well Ive been through 2 360's so far and would probably go through another...the best current console games available...besides if you do get the rrod the warrenty is 3 years on that now and it only took me a week and half to get mine back. It really sux that it happens but not a lot of choice as I have no interest in a ps3 and the wii isnt very good for newer, multi ported games.

Though a friend of mine who used to repair 360's told me that the newer versions with the hdmi cable have a lower rate of failure. So just make sure you get 1 of those.

robotriot
07-13-2008, 12:24 PM
I think there's no denying that the failure rate is siginificantly higher than normal. On the other hand, the only thing you will read about is those consoles not working, because most people who are satisfied with their console don't see any reason to post about it online. I know 5 people with a 360 personally (myself included), and so far one of them broke down, and it was the oldest one (possibly launch).

lendelin
07-13-2008, 12:52 PM
Cite your source. That isn't you. Or what you've seen with your friends.

...oh wait, you can't.

Next time, stop making oh-so [not] witty clever jokes about my intelligence or whatever else to obscure the facts. You're full of shit, and you know it. Have a nice day.

I didn't do a systematic search, but these in these two threads I posted you find the detailed pros and cons of the 16% (from a statistical standpoint) failure rates with other sources:

Link 1 (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=113019)
Link 2 (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=114128)

There are many more sources that help to get a realistic GUESS about the failure rates. (among them the reports of engineers involved in the testing before launch, etc.). The exact numbers we won't know, but everything together with some numbers, own experiences, friends, information from store clerks and repair shops we can make a good guess.

At first I thought the rate might be in the 30 to 40% range, now I believe that it is 60% + x. If it is lower I'd be VERY surprised.

When it comes to failure rates my guesses about the PS1 and PS2 were pretty much on target despite some heat I took from guys who denied it (a survey from 2003):

Link 3 (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18926&highlight=Hardware+reliability)

Quote (mine):

My guess is (note: even the most well informed and educated guess is still that, mere speculation) that the failure rate is much higher.

The 16% would be be still in a somewhat acceptable range like the failure rates and serious problems rates of rear projection TVs (Hitachi 24%, Samsung 19%, Sony 12%, according to the most recent Consumer Reports). I don't think that MS would have taken such a finacial loss with the extended warranty at a 16% level despite its concern about loosing reputation and effects of the loss in consumer confidence on sales numbers. My guess is (with various info we have on the subject now) that the number is probably in the 30% to 40% range.

Quote Joe Santulli:

That's a surprisingly LOW number, based on what I've seen from the models built in the first two years. After opening dozens of them up, I still believe that nearly ALL of these will get RRoD at some point. We've even had two store units fail and they're not used all that often. Fortunately Microsoft is good about getting the "coffin" box out quickly and the refurb back in hand relatively quickly, in most cases.

We have not yet had a customer bring an Elite or a Falcon board 360 to the store with RRoD so for now it seems the initial problems have been addressed.

Quote (mine):

With these kind of informations and being careful we get a realistic view about the failure rates. When the PS2 had serious problems, I talked to store clerks at BB, or CC and used gamestores. I knew them for some time so they were very open about it. At this level you get the absolutely best information if you carefully listen.

I know only three guys in Germany who have a 360, two of them experienced the RRoD. I know four 360 owners here in Milwaukee, two of them had the RRoD. I talked to store clerks, and dang, the failure rate is frightening.

I sure hope you're wrong with your prediction that nearly all of the 360s manufactured in the first two years will see the RRoD. I think the failure rate is already more than 30%, in two years we'll know more about its durability, and maybe then your dark estimation will come true.

joedick
07-13-2008, 02:47 PM
I know this thread has turned into something else, but for the OP:

Dude, you have 50 games for the system and other people are willing to buy the console for you? What's the holdup?

Emuaust
07-13-2008, 05:19 PM
_____

PapaStu
07-13-2008, 05:25 PM
And we're done.

Thanks for playing guys!

I appreciate those that tried to keep this on track after my last post.

**lockerooni**