Connecting an older videogame system to a ATSC / No tuner TV or VCR

[dhowerter]

Hi :)

I know the new ATSC tuner standard for TVs and VCRs is coming, so I thought I would ask these questions:

1. If you want to hook up an older videogame system (like the Genesis, Turbo Grafx-16 or Atari 7800) by RF Switch (for various reasons I'll probably need to use RF to hook them up),

- if you hooked up the RF Switch to a TV / VCR with NO tuner at all, would it work?
(would a tunerless TV / VCR even HAVE a coaxial post to hook it up to? :) If a TV /VCR has a coaxial post, would it HAVE to have a tuner of some type? ;-)

- if you hooked up the RF Switch to a TV / VCR with a ATSC tuner, would it work?


I ask this because the image/sound from a older videogame system will only show up if it is plugged into SOMETHING that can tune in Channel 3 (presumably analog), and if the new TV / VCRs can't do that (ATSC tuner or no tuner), that could be a problem for playing your older systems on the newer TVs or through a newer VCR). :-(



IF the answer is that ATSC tuners can not work with RF Switches from older videogame systems at all, then how do you get the older systems (outputting RF) hooked up to a newer ATSC TV or VCR?


Do they make Coaxial to Composite A / V cable converters ? (that is coaxial / RF input and composite video/sound output (via normal style AV plugs)

Any other options?


.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

There was a discussion about this recently...you might be able to find it if you search.

At this Saturday's NAVA I purchased a mint condition 2600 Jr. which I'm happy to say has a BEAUTIFUL looking, very strong output with no on-screen noise or interference, and what looks to be a perfectly adjusted color/saturation pot.

In fact, I was planning on having it AV modded, but after trying it out on all my TVs via the coaxial cable, I was SO happy with the clarity of the picture and sound, I'm not even going to bother. Couldn't be happier with that after going through a few used 2600 Jr. purchases from the DP store about a year ago that were all non-functional. :(

But, back to your question -

You CAN run a Coaxial into the "ANTENNA IN" Coaxial port of a VCR and output that feed to the AV OUT of the VCR, at least, I could on the VCR that I tried it on. No noticable improvement in picture or sound clarity.

HOWEVER, some VCRs may throw a few seconds of delay in there, rendering play useless/unplayable. The one I used did not, but I know that my LiteOn brand DVD recorder does.

And they don't really make any commercially available Coax-to-AV boxes at any type of reasonable prices - I've seen a few in deep deep web searches, but they were outrageously priced and likely used in studio type video production and sold at a professional-grade equipment price.

They DO however make PLENTY of AV-to-Coax boxes, which do not work the way you want them to.

Though, honestly, I'm not too sure about the tuner. Since the coaxial cable is still present even in high-def digital broadcasting an ATSC tuner would likely be able to carry the lower def signal that a game system would output, no??

[dhowerter]

Frankie_Says_Relax / ALL -



There was a discussion about this recently...you might be able to find it if you search.

Already tried searching; nothing really helped with my problem.





You CAN run a Coaxial into the "ANTENNA IN" Coaxial port of a VCR and output that feed to the AV OUT of the VCR, at least, I could on the VCR that I tried it on. No noticable improvement in picture or sound clarity.

HOWEVER, some VCRs may throw a few seconds of delay in there, rendering play useless/unplayable. The one I used did not, but I know that my LiteOn brand DVD recorder does.


Wait, hold on ;)

Firstly, how do you tell if there IS delay? (Are we talking a fraction of second here or what?)

Secondly, your Liteon DVD Recorder, does it have a VCR component?

Is it possible the delay only happens on DVD type devices and NOT on standalone VCRS?


Thirdly, did any of the stuff you tried hooking up the 2600 to (VCRS / TVs)have a ATSC tuner or was it all NTSC?


Using an older NTSC VCR in the way you said was my backup plan :-(

(I don't want to have any of my older systems ripped apart to be modded for composite ;)

What exactly causes this delay?
And would it be in standalone VCRs as well?

Finally, If I DO need to get an older VCR to use as a Coaxial to Composite converter like you said, how do I avoid getting one with delay ?





"And they don't really make any commercially available Coax-to-AV boxes at any reasonable prices - though, they make PLENTY of AV-to-Coax boxes, which do not work the way you want them to."

Are you sure? I could have sworn Radio Shack sold something like that...






Though, honestly, I'm not too sure about the tuner. Since the coaxial cable is still present even in high-def digital broadcasting an ATSC tuner would likely be able to carry the lower def signal that a game system would output, no??

Er wait, aren't ATSC TVs and VCRs on the market already?

That's my main question, really, can a ATSC tuner tune in an older videogame system via RF Switch?


.

[megasdkirby]

An RF Modulator is all you need.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I'm not 100% sure on the delay issue and VCRs, but since the technology is basically the same - I figured if it happens on a DVD recorder, it could happen with a VCR.

The VCR I tried it out on had zero delay and worked perfectly, but even though that was the case, I didn't want to "confim" that it worked perfectly and have you run out and buy a VCR only to find that there's a delay (of about a solid second).

Radio Shack has AV to Coax boxes, but as far as I know they don't have Coax to AV boxes.

I'm fairly certain that none of my TVs have ATSC, so I can't verify anything about that, but again, I suspect that ATSC tuners will be able to carry/display the signal from older games/devices fine and that you won't need to do anything above and beyond plugging it in the way you would on an older TV.

[c0ldb33r]

Classic Video Game Room HD just recently did a video on this.

How to Buy & Hook Up Atari 2600 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38os4_ama08&feature=user)

I didn't learn anything from it, but I always find that guy entertaining to watch/listen to. Hope it helps. :)

[dr101z]

ATSC tuners are designed to receive over the air digital signals and have nothing in place to receive NTSC analog signals, which is what all classic game systems use. The best advice is to go out to some pawn shops or flea markets and pick up a couple of cheap VCR's with analog tuners to use to connect your systems to a TV.

BTW, the delay caused by some DVR's and DVD recorders is due to the fact they they are digitizing the analog signal coming in, which as stated can make the game unplayable due to the lag time. VCR's or other devices with straight through analog won't have the delay.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

ATSC tuners are designed to receive over the air digital signals and have nothing in place to receive NTSC analog signals, which is what all classic game systems use. The best advice is to go out to some pawn shops or flea markets and pick up a couple of cheap VCR's with analog tuners to use to connect your systems to a TV.

BTW, the delay caused by some DVR's and DVD recorders is due to the fact they they are digitizing the analog signal coming in, which as stated can make the game unplayable due to the lag time. VCR's or other devices with straight through analog won't have the delay.

Tada! Questions answered. :D

Good to know that ATSC tuners can't carry analog signals.

[skaar]

I used the VCR for years to route all my RF stuff through, because I could output to composite. I had this master plan to pick up an SVHS deck because it would output to svideo, but I don't remember if I ever got around to doing that.... I think I did but it didn't work.

[diskoboy]

I have a Dreamcast hooked up on my Sony SXRD directly through RF (I lost my S-video cable). And every now and then, I hook up the Atari.

They both work just fine. Pictures a bit fuzzy, but that's to be expected from older video equipment, on a HDTV.

Most HDTV's made now are NTSC/ATSC which means they will pick up both analog or digital. Your old RF NTSC equipment will work just fine.

I seriously doubt they'll stop putting RF sitches on backs of TV's because you can still hook your digital cable directly to your TV, but you have to get a cablecard from your cable company (and your TV has to have a CC slot). Not to mention all the technology that would be rendered useless in one fail swoop...

Plus, if you're an OTA viewer, you'll still have to hook your antenna in somewhere, even after the transition...

[theChad]

Is there a good way to condense the necessary elements of a VCR into some small converter box? That would be really cool, instead of having a VCR hooked up just to be able to run your game systems through it, to have a little unit in the vein of an RF switch that would take the coax in and split it into composite. Would still probably require it's own power supply to do though, so maybe it's a no-go.

[Greg2600]

I did not realize TV's were already being sold without NTSC, only ATSC. Or are they? The one TV we have has two tuners, one for each. I'd say your best bet is to get the RF to Composite modulator, which are probably $10 or $15 maximum. The only bad thing is that they almost always come with AC Adapters, which requires space on your power strip.

theChad, you are right, it would seem fairly inexpensive to modulate back to RF from something better, but there's little demand for that, so they aren't available. Especially since you could probably make something from Radio Shack parts for a few dollars, most likely.

[dhowerter]

BTW, the delay caused by some DVR's and DVD recorders is due to the fact they they are digitizing the analog signal coming in, which as stated can make the game unplayable due to the lag time. VCR's or other devices with straight through analog won't have the delay.

Thank goodness. SO for this purpose as long as I avoid getting anything with a DVD drive in it, I should be OK :)

And lets hope you're right about them including NTSC AND ATSC tuners in TVs for years to come :)



skaar / ALL -


I used the VCR for years to route all my RF stuff through, because I could output to composite.



Since you said "ALL my RF stuff", that means multiple RF sources, correct? (like multiple game consoles)

SO did you have a way to switch between the RF sources and then output ONE of the signals into ONE VCR?
(Is there some kind of coaxial switch box? you know, like 4 coaxial inputs, 4 buttons and one coaxial output? )


Or did you need a VCR for EACH of the RF sources?

.

[theChad]

In most cases (read: all?) you can just daisy chain them and whichever system you have turned on will take priority.

[chrisbid]

I did not realize TV's were already being sold without NTSC, only ATSC. Or are they? The one TV we have has two tuners, one for each. I'd say your best bet is to get the RF to Composite modulator, which are probably $10 or $15 maximum. The only bad thing is that they almost always come with AC Adapters, which requires space on your power strip.



my HD set has two tuners, one is for cable, the other is for over-the-air. the over-the-air tuner picks up both analog and digital signals. the set nicely combinds the two platforms into the channel lineup (analog 4, DT 4-1, DT 4-2, analog 6, DT 6-1, DT 6-2, analog 10, etc) it works great for the people like me that arent willing (or do not yet have the option) to pay for digital cable.

the biggest problem is with every HDTV set ive played with, analog systems look like garbage. this happens through the tuner or through composite or s-video. its too bad there isnt a HDTV set on the market that proplery emulates an SDTV set. videophiles understand the purpose of letterboxing, so please give us that option.

[dhowerter]

In most cases (read: all?) you can just daisy chain them and whichever system you have turned on will take priority.


Yes, except in the cases where I would like to use a DIRECT RF connection
;-) (no RF Switch)

For example, I have a little adapter that does one RCA plug -female --> Coaxial - male, so I can hook up my Atari 7800 without using a RF Switch (little bit better picture without the RF Switch)

Same thing for the Turbo Grafx 16. SO what I was thinking was a switch box like I described previously that would let me select between multiple coaxial inputs and give one coaxial output :)
DO those exist?

.

[MarioMania]

I saw at Radio Shack is a Convertor that accepts a Analog Signal

[ooXxXoo]

I really feel bad for those that still use the RF modulator signal.....The VCR method only takes more space and doesn't do a huge improvement to the video quality.....the interference will always be there.

[Trebuken]

Same thing for the Turbo Grafx 16. SO what I was thinking was a switch box like I described previously that would let me select between multiple coaxial inputs and give one coaxial output :)
DO those exist?
.

Yes. The only ones I have ever found only switch between three sources though. I did buy one of mine at Radio Shack, but it wasn't recently.

I used the daisy chain method with the direct connect attached to the RF switch in order to attach six systems to each of my switches. I had three RF switches, one of the switches between the other two and then has two systems connected through the open switch. This allows for RF systems. I don't have them all connected any more though...

I also had an old cable tv box that would convert the RF to Composite (demodulate). I could then hook my systems to any TV.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Yes, except in the cases where I would like to use a DIRECT RF connection
;-) (no RF Switch)

For example, I have a little adapter that does one RCA plug -female --> Coaxial - male, so I can hook up my Atari 7800 without using a RF Switch (little bit better picture without the RF Switch)

Same thing for the Turbo Grafx 16. SO what I was thinking was a switch box like I described previously that would let me select between multiple coaxial inputs and give one coaxial output :)
DO those exist?

.

Yes, but they're often just giant "auto" RF boxes with multiple inputs/outputs. No switches like AV boxes.

http://cache.smarthome.com/images/77958t.jpg

Like a daisy chain, the highest signal takes priority, though, unlike a daisy chain, you probably won't get any interference if ONE of the RF switches in the chain tends to send "noise" or has a weak signal and happens to be at the front of the chain. (I've had that happen.)

[MarioMania]

Insignia makes one with Analog pass though

[Sweater Fish Deluxe]

An RF Modulator is all you need.
Actually, a DEmodulator is what you need. Or as the thread topic says, a TV tuner. searching eBay for one or the other of those terms always turns up a number of results. Some of them are expensive professional equipment, but there usually seems to be a couple demodulators available for a reasonable price. VCR is almost always going to be the cheapest option, though.


Since you said "ALL my RF stuff", that means multiple RF sources, correct? (like multiple game consoles)

SO did you have a way to switch between the RF sources and then output ONE of the signals into ONE VCR?
(Is there some kind of coaxial switch box? you know, like 4 coaxial inputs, 4 buttons and one coaxial output? )
Since every system that can think of carries its RF on an RCA cable from the system to the switchbox, why not just use an RCA input source selector and then send the output from that to a single RF switchbox or RCA-to-coax adapter?


...word is bondage...

[dhowerter]

BTW, the delay caused by some DVR's and DVD recorders is due to the fact they they are digitizing the analog signal coming in, which as stated can make the game unplayable due to the lag time. VCR's or other devices with straight through analog won't have the delay.



OK, I got a question about this ^^.

He mentions that the delay between the inputting in coaxial and outputting in composite / RCA jacks is caused by the fact that "they are digitizing the analog signal coming in", presumably so a DVD Recorder or DVR can *record* it.

That being said, would a normal DVD PLAYER (only plays dvds, does not record at all) have the delay too?
Would a DVD player (player only) have to digitize the analog signal coming into it? (since you're not recording it)

.

[Sweater Fish Deluxe]

I don't think I've ever seen a DVD player with a built-in tuner. If it's not able to record, there's no reason to put a tuner in it.

If DVD players with tuners do exist, then no, there's no reason the signal would *HAVE* to be digitized, though depending on why the tuner is there perhaps it does it anyway.


...word is bondage...

[cyberfluxor]

Quick and painless question, how are these adaptors (http://cgi.ebay.com/Atari-RF-TV-Adapter-Direct-2600-7800-5200-FREE-SHIPPING_W0QQitemZ280277554712QQcmdZViewItem?hash= item280277554712&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C 240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14) which I believe are mentioned above, and just tune into the channel set on the console?

[zektor]

Quick and painless question, how are these adaptors (http://cgi.ebay.com/Atari-RF-TV-Adapter-Direct-2600-7800-5200-FREE-SHIPPING_W0QQitemZ280277554712QQcmdZViewItem?hash= item280277554712&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C 240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14) which I believe are mentioned above, and just tune into the channel set on the console?

Simple answer, they are great. I use them exclusively on all of my RF based consoles.

[cyberfluxor]

Simple answer, they are great. I use them exclusively on all of my RF based consoles.

Sounds good. Just ordered one for my 2600 and see how it goes. Switch boxes are sold at local game stores for several bucks, tis why I haven't really gotten around to playing it in the few months I've had. I burnt my other VCS last year from a terrible 3rd party power block, such a bad idea. This unit however has all of the original Atari cables. Looking forward to using some of those variety of controllers I own. If I don't watch it I'll accrue a bunch of carts again.

[theChad]

If there's a radio shack near you, you probably wouldn't have had to order one - I think they're cheaper at RS too.

http://www.radioshack.com/sm-phono-plug-to-f-jack-adapter--pi-2123169.html

EDIT: Ah, but then again that auction had free shipping, so I guess it weighs out almost even between tax on 3.79 and the extra 20 cents to have one shipped. Maybe just for convenience sake, check out Radio Shack.

[AdamAnt316]

An adapter like the one listed multiple times in this thread will work with a TV which still has an NTSC tuner, but not with something which lacks one. I use them in conjunction with my Sony TV Tuner, and the combination does a nice job of allowing the use of RF video game systems on non-RF monitors.
-Adam

[cyberfluxor]

If there's a radio shack near you, you probably wouldn't have had to order one - I think they're cheaper at RS too.

http://www.radioshack.com/sm-phono-plug-to-f-jack-adapter--pi-2123169.html

EDIT: Ah, but then again that auction had free shipping, so I guess it weighs out almost even between tax on 3.79 and the extra 20 cents to have one shipped. Maybe just for convenience sake, check out Radio Shack.

Yeah, I realised that but I can't stand Radio Shack. Sadly there was a great electronics store several miles away that I never had the chance to visit. They were bought out a few years ago and closed, all inventory went off someplace.