Zero Originality: The Gamestop Whistle Blower

[Muckraker]

Check these videos out. They're lovingly done in the Zero Punctuation style.

Episode 1: Used Games, Trades, and GameStop's shit products:
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/263243.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byJSoWl476I

Episode 2: Yahtzee, Game Informer, Edge Card, and Reservations
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxn2ezNDCwc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6n0E9Iz5E0

Episode 3 Part 1: Working at GameStop
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r72BRRTkOQs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFK7BKwlj8I

Episode 3 Part 2: It gets worse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFzC65kF7P0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejAaOV8hQQw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ej2dUvsz8E

Kudos to I am Sal for bringing this to my attention. You guys probably don't know who he is, but I'm afraid that if I don't give credit where credit's due, he's going to kick my ass.

[evil_genius]

Maybe he should try slowing down with that speech impetement so people can actually understand him.

[Atari 5200]

Maybe he should try slowing down with that speech impetement so people can actually understand him.

I agree. My head nearly exploded trying to understand what he was saying.

[TonyTheTiger]

He's not being entirely fair with all those points. It's not an absurd policy for a store to pay out more store credit than cash for a trade in. Nor is it absurd for a store to make more profit off of used merchandise than they would on new.

And criticizing a game magazine for being late with news compared to the internet...well...the New York Times sucks ass too then.

[Poofta!]

if you cant understand him, i feel sorry for you lol. he talks fast but cmon, listen dude.


it is interesting and funny to watch this, gamestop DOES have its benefits and some stuff is easier and cheaper to get there. especially if you take advantage of their coupons.

[Zing]

I watched one of the "working at gamestop" videos and I really didn't see anything for him to complain about. It was like "oh nos if you work here you have to put labels on a bunch of traded in games". No shit. Guess what? When I worked at Petsmart, I had to sort the cat can section, and I liked it. This is the kind of job that teenagers and minimum wage workers want and need.

If he hadn't claimed he worked at Best Buy before, I would have assumed he has never had a job in his life.

[pewing33ny]

if he used his time more wisely he could get a real job and not have to worry about gamestop

[TonyTheTiger]

I watched one of the "working at gamestop" videos and I really didn't see anything for him to complain about. It was like "oh nos if you work here you have to put labels on a bunch of traded in games". No shit. Guess what? When I worked at Petsmart, I had to sort the cat can section, and I liked it. This is the kind of job that teenagers and minimum wage workers want and need.

If he hadn't claimed he worked at Best Buy before, I would have assumed he has never had a job in his life.

It's not really a Gamestop thing. It's a retail thing. Eventually you start to grow tired of it and even a little cynical once in a while. Some people move up. Others move on. And though there are few hard and fast rules in life, one of them is probably that no matter where you work there's bound to be something that grinds your gears. And that's true even if you are the boss.

After watching the videos there were a lot of instances where you could replace "Gamestop" with any major retailer during the tirade. Look, maybe some particular practices suck but, in the end, it's a retail chain and that comes with all the benefits and detriments associated with that status.

[Muckraker]

if he used his time more wisely he could get a real job and not have to worry about gamestop

Keep watching, and you'll be pleasantly surprised!

Also, he doesn't get to the nitty gritty until the third episode. It's there that you hear some of the stuff you haven't heard before. Like the empty pocket procedure and how they pay employees.

[G-Boobie]

Keep watching, and you'll be pleasantly surprised!

Also, he doesn't get to the nitty gritty until the third episode. It's there that you hear some of the stuff you haven't heard before. Like the empty pocket procedure and how they pay employees.

Neither of those points are particularly surprising; that's working retail. How SHOULD they be paid? They're working retail. Fuck, I wish I could afford to have a nice, simple retail job again.

And you may as well drop the 'he doesn't' stuff. Like we don't already know you're pimping your own stuff, here.

[Poofta!]

i think he means that they get paid in debit cards instead of checks as the grievance. (not the minimum wage -- minimum wage is almsot expected at retail)

[Dangerboy]

I quit watching after about 3 "points" that were made because they were all wrong.

I'd love to see a Zero Punctuation episode on piss poor rip offs.

[roushimsx]

These are absolutely dreadful.

No new or interesting points raised, terrible audio quality and lives up to the name of "Zero Originality". Way to pollute the internet, buddy.

[gepeto]

Man I hate to see him when he is angry.LOL pretty interesting. I know the stores near me have a killer turnover rate and the workers there really have no game personality. You ask questions they blow you off. I really for the first time almost stopped going to one of there stores. It is really sad when the gameing environment is totally removed. On another note trade ins help when you have no money. If you know then you don't trade in but most people a casual gamers and and are looking to get something.

[heybtbm]

if he used his time more wisely he could get a real job and not have to worry about gamestop

Exactly what I was thinking.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I watched approximately 20 seconds of the first video and I had to shut it off.

I have two questions.

Why do people feel the need to BLATANTLY steal the gimmicks of other game reviewers??? (ie The Happy Video Game Nerd, The Irate Gamer, THIS TOOL of an ex Gamestop employee, etc.)

And WHY do people (especially, and most importantly, those who are AWARE of what they're STEALING from) tolerate and/or support them?

This asshole is blatantly ripping off Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw, completely fucking SHAMELESSLY stealing from him.

It's not only depressing, it's downright SAD...

...I was about to give him shit about it in his comments section, but, SURPRISE! They're disabled.

[slip81]

uuuhhhh, welcome to retail dude, it's not just gamestop

EDIT: shit, someone else already said it :(

[Tupin]

I think it's a joke that he's a rip-off.

Ripping off game reviewers as a joke and parodying them is a popular thing to do on Youtube.

Plus, the video is called "Zero Originality". Doesn't that say something about the seriousness of it all?

[G-Boobie]

I think it's a joke that he's a rip-off.

Ripping off game reviewers as a joke and parodying them is a popular thing to do on Youtube.

Plus, the video is called "Zero Originality". Doesn't that say something about the seriousness of it all?

Yeah. It means he can't come up with his own gimmick. Am I supposed to be impressed that he pointed it out before I had a chance?

[Moon Jump]

It IS a rip off, I watched it all and he even says he loved Yatzee's reviews since Psyconauts and he wanted to do it in that style so he could be anonymous. The last video is dedicated to Yatzee.

I always love hearing stories from employees, it's the same thing, different place. You can't take a break, EVERYBODY in the store is an idiot and they make you do stupid mind numbing stuff everyday.

I worked a few months at the local Toys R Us and had pretty much the same experience that guy had. I thought the job would be fun, and I'd make some money too.

Well, it's the same thing everywhere. They don't care if you know the product, they only care if you can SELL the product.

I had this one schmuck who was my R-Zone's top seller tell me all about how awesome Tom Clancy's End War was going to be. He followed up with.. "Who's Tom Clancy??" I told him, he was an author and he said "Oh..I thought he was a spy or something"

The wonders of retail baby. Just makes you wish for more independent stores, like Digital Press. And no, that's not a shameless plug, that's how a game store SHOULD be.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I think it's a joke that he's a rip-off.

Ripping off game reviewers as a joke and parodying them is a popular thing to do on Youtube.

Plus, the video is called "Zero Originality". Doesn't that say something about the seriousness of it all?

No.

It doesn't.

There's a difference between PARODY and THEFT.

There's a subtlety that's required that this tool has absolutely none of.

What's going on here is that he's hoping to catch the attention of the portion of the internet that has NO idea who Ben Croshaw is ... and then he can carefully "avoid" telling them that he's so blatantly biting off of his routine.

There are a MILLION examples I could think of as to why this sort of thing is wrong and pretty much SHITS all over whatever artistic integrity Ben C. owns in his "Zero Punctuation" reviews.

Here's a question - if YOU created something, and some asshole came along and stole it - stole the aesthetics of it, stole the way you drew it, wrote it, shot it, etc. and made it to look like THEY were the creative force behind it - would you be "okay" with it?

[Jorpho]

Reasonable effort, but sorry, the execution is way off. It would seem that this genre only works well within certain limitations that this fellow sorely neglects.

The "Some Punctuation" review from some months ago did a much better job of aping Yahtzee's style.

[evil_genius]

A question to the people who are all pissed about this guy stealing yahtzee's style.

I don't know if anyone watches Pure Pwnage episodes but if you do, then how do you feel about those guys parodying Yahtzee.

edit: I understand how different the two of them are. One is making episodes after episode in his style. The other is only a few minutes of many hours of video. But I think Jeremy from PP did a much better impersonation. If you haven't seen purepwnage, it's pretty funny and I think it's worth a watch.

Can be seen here
http://www.purepwnage.com/episodes/s2/5/

[Moon Jump]

http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/img/facepalm.jpeg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxn2ezNDCwc

Watch the two minutes.

If you can't understand him (Which I agree he's hard to understand sometimes) he said he loves Yatzee's reviews and the reason why he wanted to do his video in that style is so he can remain anonymous.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I still haven't heard any answers to ANY of MY questions - but as an artist, I'll attempt to clarify the problem I have with this guy (beyond the fact that he's highly un-funny and sounds like he's talking with a mouthful of half chewed pop-corn).

Ben Choshaw isn't "apeing" anybody else out there. Nobody presented their game reviews in the same audio/visual style before him that I can recall.

Generally speaking, it's minimalist, repetitive, and doesn't require a heck of a lot of effort to produce (which he's openly admitted numerous times).

Whether you enjoy his work or not, he's an innovator, not an imitator.

Now, I've not seen a single thing that Pure Pwnage has done, ever, but if what they're doing is exactly the same thing that this ass is doing (presenting their "fast-talking" reviews with the same pacing/graphic elements stolen directly from Ben's videos) - it's not "loving", it's not "parody" it's not even re-appropriation - it's downright shameless, fucking, theft, and it's pathetic.

Now, back to parody. Parody is a very legitimate form of comedy, and if done right (see the early works of the Zucker Brothers) can be acceptable as its own creation. What's going on here, (as I eluded to earlier) is somebody who is looking to capitalize on the success of somebody else's work.

So ... why do a portion of those of you who watched these tolerate this? Is it just apathy, do you simply not give a crap about originality / integrity?

And if this guy really "loves" Z.P. (and thinks he can do this without facing criticism from the public) he needs to put DISCLAIMERS in the front of every one of his videos (and I can only assume, but I'd bet SAFE MONEY) that he stole not only the style of this work from B.C., but likely stole a hell of a ton of GRAPHIC ELEMENTS directly from his videos.

[dao2]

He's not being entirely fair with all those points. It's not an absurd policy for a store to pay out more store credit than cash for a trade in. Nor is it absurd for a store to make more profit off of used merchandise than they would on new.

And criticizing a game magazine for being late with news compared to the internet...well...the New York Times sucks ass too then.

It's not that he's criticizing the magazine for that, he's criticizing the game company for pushing it saying that it is when it most certainly is not :|

[dao2]

Keep watching, and you'll be pleasantly surprised!

Also, he doesn't get to the nitty gritty until the third episode. It's there that you hear some of the stuff you haven't heard before. Like the empty pocket procedure and how they pay employees.

And I can attest that it's all true. The cart is a maestro card and accepted nowhere outside of the UK :P Also the pocket check is for every time you leave the store, breaks and otherwise.

[Tupin]

The ultimate decider will be Mr. Croshaw when he comes across these videos. He'll either watch them and not care, or take the videos down because he stole things directly from his videos.

[evil_genius]

It's pretty gay but I'm not gonna get all worked up over it or anything. I love Yahtzee's reviews and this guy I don't really care for. I agree with the fact he should put disclaimers in those videos to give credit to Yahtzee.

[Coldguy]

It's pretty gay but I'm not gonna get all worked up over it or anything. I love Yahtzee's reviews and this guy I don't really care for. I agree with the fact he should put disclaimers in those videos to give credit to Yahtzee.

I watched them, and he did. So it is simply a fair use issue on his work.

Seriously we are talking about the ripoffness of these videos and not the content itself? Cmon guys I thought you all would be better then that...

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Okay.

I watched the first video, and I didn't see a single solitary frame that mentioned the words

Ben

"Yahtzee"

Croshaw

Zero (except in the title)

or Punctuation

In fact, the closest thing I could find in the first video (which is where he NEEDS to say these things ... not the second, and certainly not the SIXTH) that eluded to the fact that he stole graphic elements from B.C. was this frame ...

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b328/FrankieViturello/Theft.jpg

in addition to being a professional artist, I'm a licensed teacher, and I happen to understand what "fair use" means.

"Fair Use" is the legal allowance of copying portions of copyrighted work for SCHOLARLY USAGE not a fucking YouTube video.

So, again, I'll pose the question to those that feel that there's "nothing wrong" going on here :

Would you be okay with somebody taking something you've created, gutting it and presenting it as their own original idea?

[Poofta!]

No.

It doesn't.

There's a difference between PARODY and THEFT.

There's a subtlety that's required that this tool has absolutely none of.

What's going on here is that he's hoping to catch the attention of the portion of the internet that has NO idea who Ben Crawshaw is ... and then he can carefully "avoid" telling them that he's so blatantly biting off of his routine.

There are a MILLION examples I could think of as to why this sort of thing is wrong and pretty much SHITS all over whatever artistic integrity Ben C. owns in his "Zero Punctuation" reviews.

Here's a question - if YOU created something, and some asshole came along and stole it - stole the aesthetics of it, stole the way you drew it, wrote it, shot it, etc. and made it to look like THEY were the creative force behind it - would you be "okay" with it?

chill the hell out. he does like a 5 minutes segment on this and says how awesome ben is. if you gave him a chance youd know this. now take those panties out of yoru ass along with that stick. the segment as unoriginal and biased as it may be -- is still a fun and interesting watch which the author did some considerable work putting together. i enjoyed it, and although it isnt going to change my purchasing habits (i already abuse gamestop) it definitely was interesting listening to a man tell his story.

edit: originality and integrity are two EXTREMELY different things. i do not give a shit about originality, we are gamers after all and there are what -- like 15 original game ideas, ever? originality does not make something good or bad. its a style, and once you create a style, it is the world's to mimic, make fun of, abuse, change, alter, use etc. last i checked Ben was not making his living off of his vid style, nor is this guy. this guy blatantly says he stole the style and its just to make it easier for himself, i actually enjoyed him doing it. either way he is not trying to capitalize on it for any purpose other than to bring you entertainment.

[roushimsx]

Seriously we are talking about the ripoffness of these videos and not the content itself? Cmon guys I thought you all would be better then that...

You must have missed about 80% of the first page of the thread. I know, I know, expecting someone to read any more than the first and last posts of a thread is asking way too much.

Start reading from here (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1428139&postcount=2) and work your way down as everyone shits on his terrible inflection, poor script, and generic points.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Well.

I was going to wait for somebody to articulate an answer to MY question, but if the consensus is that that this kind of thing is completely acceptable, I'll just leave everybody alone to enjoy it.

[boatofcar]

Would you be okay with somebody taking something you've created, gutting it and presenting it as their own original idea?

Nobody is going to confuse this mess with a zero punctuation review. Ben Croshaw did not invent stick men animations and talking fast. And I don't know what being a "professional artist" and a "licensed teacher" has to do with knowing what fair use is, aside from making you look like a pompous ass.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Nobody is going to confuse this mess with a zero punctuation review. Ben Croshaw did not invent stick men animations and talking fast. And I don't know what being a "professional artist" and a "licensed teacher" has to do with knowing what fair use is, aside from making you look like a pompous ass.

Graphic/commercial artists need to be ever-cautious of copyright ownership. If copyrighted material winds up in work you get paid for / gets published without permission of the copyright holder, the artist may be legally liable.

(If I erased the word balloons from Penny Arcade and wrote my own jokes in, or erased the audio from an AVGN and dubbed in my own audio, that wouldn't be "fair use".)

Educators photocopy things from texts all the time. If you're a teacher, in most every case, you have a right to exercise "fair use" copyright to make lessons using portions of texts / publications that would otherwise be illegal to copy / distribute for personal use.

Sorry if the initial statement came accross as "holier-than-thou".

I'm a bit shocked at the overwhelming support over this ... and seriously, anybody who knows me knows that I'm anything BUT pompous, I'm just passionate about things like this.

Seriously, you guys can enjoy these all you like ... I'm personally offended by them, but it's not like I was personally attacking anybody over them, I was just trying to get some insight into why people think that it's acceptable.

If saying "I love Ben Croshaw" is enough to get a pass from the majority of the general public, then I guess I can't argue with that.

[G-Boobie]

[...]I'm a bit shocked at the overwhelming support over this ... and seriously, anybody who knows me knows that I'm anything BUT pompous, I'm just passionate about things like this.

Seriously, you guys can enjoy these all you like ... I'm personally offended by them, but it's not like I was personally attacking anybody over them, I was just trying to get some insight into why people think that it's acceptable.

If saying "I love Ben Croshaw" is enough to get a pass from the majority of the general public, then I guess I can't argue with that.

Frankie, to my eye, the overwhelming majority of posts in this thread are actually pretty negative. I'm not sure where you're getting that 'overwhelming support' vibe.

That being said, I resolve to stop posting in threads started by YouTube reviewers. It's never worth it.

[roushimsx]

(If I erased the word balloons from Penny Arcade and wrote my own jokes in, or erased the audio from an AVGN and dubbed in my own audio, that wouldn't be "fair use".)

The Penny Arcade parodies can be funny, but I've got a warm spot in my heart for the Dilbert rewrites.

http://images.roushimsx.com/dilbert_cockboat.jpg

[G-Boobie]

Well, that didn't last long.

The dude is on Kotaku now. (http://kotaku.com/5046477/disgruntled-ex+gamestop-employee-takes-it-to-youtube)

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Frankie, to my eye, the overwhelming majority of posts in this thread are actually pretty negative. I'm not sure where you're getting that 'overwhelming support' vibe.

That being said, I resolve to stop posting in threads started by YouTube reviewers. It's never worth it.

Well ... any time totally civil DP members start throwing pointed jabs over my passionate ramblings (and by any time, I mean the FIRST TIME) I get a feeling of being "overwhelmed", I suppose that my estimation of the total level of "acceptance" might have been a bit off due to that.

In any case, I was mad at the "whistle blower" not ANYBODY here ... and I sincerely hope nobody took anything I said as some kind of personal attack.

[TonyTheTiger]

I didn't know who Ben Croshaw was until just now. So I didn't actually know what this guy was jacking. I knew he was jacking something because he mentioned it but that wasn't what I was paying attention to. Putting the format of the rant aside, I don't think I'd have a better estimation of his ravings regardless so the whole infringement thing is really moot as far as my opinion of what's actually being said.

I don't have any particular love for obvious thieves. Carlos Mencia comes to mind. But I sort of take the same position George Lopez does. Maybe you can stop them from jacking your shit and maybe you can't. But sometimes it's just better to flip them the bird and leave them to dig themselves further into a hole gradually losing fans and making fools of themselves. I think the problem is that there's always going to be a selection of people who don't know about the theft. I, for instance, rarely watched/listened to George Lopez's work until more recently. I didn't know Mencia stole his stuff. I did like the routine when I heard it from Mencia which made me like Mencia. What that says to me now is that I was actually liking George Lopez and Mencia was just a proxy.

That this guy was just picked up by Kotaku annoys me double now, though. I'm annoyed that a guy who clearly isn't saying anything new and sometimes not even relevant is getting press coverage like he's some sort of actual whistle blower as opposed to some disgruntled retail worker with an axe to grind and now I'm also annoyed that he's not even original to the point where he could get the coverage for just being unique about his methods. So, really, what's worth celebrating with a Kotaku article?

[Vectorman0]

Check these videos out. They're lovingly done in the Zero Punctuation style.

Episode 1: Used Games, Trades, and GameStop's shit products:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_D45dRcehg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byJSoWl476I

Episode 2: Yahtzee, Game Informer, Edge Card, and Reservations
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxn2ezNDCwc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6n0E9Iz5E0

Episode 3 Part 1: Working at GameStop
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r72BRRTkOQs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFK7BKwlj8I

Episode 3 Part 2: It gets worse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFzC65kF7P0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejAaOV8hQQw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ej2dUvsz8E

Kudos to I am Sal for bringing this to my attention. You guys probably don't know who he is, but I'm afraid that if I don't give credit where credit's due, he's going to kick my ass.

Are you the guy that made these videos? Don't worry, you can be honest.


----


Also, Frankie, I think you overreacted. I can understand why you find it upsetting, but it honestly doesn't deserve as much attention as you have been giving it. Yeah, it's sad to see someone get copied to this extent, but getting worked up about it isn't going to accomplish anything.


It's sort of sad this guy had to rip off someones unique style to get his point across. That says something about the points he's making - they suck.

[Moon Jump]

It's not like the guy's making any money off of it. Be thankful he used spent his time making a stupid internet video then going all apeshit on the people that shopped there.

[TonyTheTiger]

It's not like the guy's making any money off of it. Be thankful he used spent his time making a stupid internet video then going all apeshit on the people that shopped there.

You're right that there are far worse ways he could have expressed himself. And with something as open as the internet you're bound to get 4 or 5 knockoffs for every AVGN and Nostalgia Critic. It's just the reality of it all, I suppose. I just think it's worth pointing out when someone is actually using someone else's ideas. Even if it's completely innocent, I don't want to be deceived like I was by Carlos Mencia.

[theChad]

You're right that there are far worse ways he could have expressed himself. And with something as open as the internet you're bound to get 4 or 5 knockoffs for every AVGN and Nostalgia Critic. It's just the reality of it all, I suppose. I just think it's worth pointing out when someone is actually using someone else's ideas. Even if it's completely innocent, I don't want to be deceived like I was by Carlos Mencia.

I salute Joe Rogan.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Are you the guy that made these videos? Don't worry, you can be honest.


----


Also, Frankie, I think you overreacted. I can understand why you find it upsetting, but it honestly doesn't deserve as much attention as you have been giving it. Yeah, it's sad to see someone get copied to this extent, but getting worked up about it isn't going to accomplish anything.


It's sort of sad this guy had to rip off someones unique style to get his point across. That says something about the points he's making - they suck.

Yeah, I was pretty damned worked up after watching that first one.

Again, sorry to anybody that took my abrasive rants over this personally.

The kicker is, that I don't have problem one with him (or anybody) making a multi part gripe about Game Stop.

If he had just sat in front of a camera and said all the stuff he said slowly and clearly, I think it would not only be more interesting, but there wouldn't be the inherent problem of him not being understood by some.

Then again, his exposure seems to be pretty high at the moment over this ... so, perhaps he had the right idea.

[boatofcar]

Frankie, I feel like I was too hard on you with the whole "pompous ass" thing. I was just coming out of the handicapped parking thread and I was still fuming a bit. Sorry man :)

Anyway, there's a valid question here. How much can you borrow from someone else's "style" until it's considered copyright infringement. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's nothing actually "stolen" from a ZP review in these, right? Just the general idea is what is taken.

It reminds me of a case where some potato chip company wanted Tom Waits to do a commercial for them. He refused, so they got a guy that sounded like him to do the commercial. Tom Waits sued, saying that they were ripping off his style and tarnishing his no-commercial philosophy, and Waits won. So it's hard to say how much you can rip somebody off before it becomes a criminal offense.

[Moon Jump]

As I said in my other post, I worked at Toys R Us, so I could see where the guy was coming from. I loved the part where he mentioned how when you first start you're pleased as punch, then you just get dragged down.

I could see it at TRU. I knew the people that had worked there for years and the new people come in for the holiday rush. Hell, one customer even said to me, "Boy, you're in an upbeat mood." and I simply replied, "Yeah, this company hasn't beat it out of me yet.." and he gave me a huge laugh and said "That's the best thing I've heard all day!!"

So needless to say, Toys R Us laid me off with most of my other friends on Christmas Eve and most of the floor managers that were working there at the time are there either or moved to other stores.

I know a lot of people have already heard these stories a million times, but hell, if one more person can hear about the things they do to those poor kids so they can make a buck, then I think he made his point.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

No problem B.O.C., I'm sorry too.

I threw my cedentials out there in a pretty douchey way.

I should have just given the associated explanations I followed up with in the first place.

[TonyTheTiger]

Anyway, there's a valid question here. How much can you borrow from someone else's "style" until it's considered copyright infringement.

It's funny because I'm taking a copyright law class this semester and we just touched on that subject. From what I can tell so far, it's...not very clear.

It might be hard to define but I think we know it when we see it. Young Frankenstein = parody/homage. Irate Gamer = pathetically shameless ripoff. Most things where this becomes an issue fall somewhere in between.

And, by the way, you guys are being way too cordial for an internet message board. Why hasn't anyone resorted to caps and threats of physical violence should you ever meet in real life? I mean, come on. Get with the program already.

[evil_genius]

Can we all still be friends?

[boatofcar]

It looks like a third party has entered the litigation. (http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s3i1569)


In a stunning victory today, Stick-Figure-Man (S-F-M) won his decades long lawsuit against the world. Experts predict that the reward he'll earn for copyright infringement and libel will be in the high billions if not trillions.

Anyone who has drawn him without the expressed written permission of himself and/or Stick-Figure-World will be forced to pay monetary damages. Those being forced to pay will include doodlers, Flash animation artists, safety label manufacturers, Aborigines (and their ancestors), spoof news sites, cross-walk sign makers, and most of all, little children.

A retraction and public apology will be demanded as well.

Experts predict that S-F-M will acquire 25-30% of the world's economy. The news has sent all global stock markets into a tailspin. Riots with burning cars have been reported around the world as well.

Mr. S-F-M had a few words to say outside on the courthouse steps:

"I want to thank my lawyers for their tireless efforts in this matter on my behalf. And oh yeah, up yours you three-dimensional freaks! Ha ha! How you like that, huh? (shaking booty at cameras) I'm going to rule the world! Oh yeah! And as for my lawyers, I'm going to buy their firm and fire 'em all. Don't like it? Tough doo-doo you losers! Where's Bill Gates? He's gonna ride on the back of my Harley, if you know what I mean. Yeah, baby! Yeah!"

Stick-Figure-Man then ran down the steps and entered a black Ford Excursion stretch limo where a busty Stick-Figure-Girl was awaiting him with champagne and cigars. As the vehicle sped off S-F-M rolled down the window, gave everyone the finger and shouted, "Bling, bling, you dookey-heads! Bling, bling! "

[slip81]

It looks like a third party has entered the litigation. (http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s3i1569)


good for him

[DigitalSpace]

/me says "meh," continues browsing porn

[Iron Draggon]

well I'm glad someone got Frankie relaxed, so I don't have to do it myself LOL

now, as a pissed off gamer who will never do business with GameStop again, I hope this guy's videos succeed in igniting a ton of class action lawsuits and other forms of protest that get that pathetic excuse for a retailer shunned out of existence forever... and I'd be thrilled if such a public outcry ended up eliminating all retailers with similar business models and practices as well... it's about time that someone stood up to companies like this in a significant manner... such entities and their bullshit only thrive because of apathy and a sense of powerlessness against them... what can one stick figure man do?

well for starters, we can all refuse to work shitty hours at shitty jobs for shitty pay... because we all know that most companies who pull this kind of shit make enough money doing it that they could afford to pay their workers real money for working real hours doing real jobs... but instead we all put up with McJobs like this, because we don't really care about them anymore than they care about us... we're only doing it to work our ways through school or whatever... but should that be an excuse for whoring ourselves out like that?

I say HELL NO! fuck working jobs like that, and fuck shopping at places like that... let them all go out of business due to lack of willing workers and lack of paying customers... such things wouldn't even be as commonplace as they are now if most people had united against them the first time someone tried to pull that shit and pass it off as an acceptable way of conducting business!

as for GameStop in particular, if even only the worst of those accusations are true, they sound far worse than WalMart, the retailer everyone loves to hate, which would make them pretty much the lowest of the low... and I don't mean low prices! if paying their clerks with debit cards and charging them fees to withdraw their earnings isn't illegal, it sure as hell should be!

I think that's pretty much the most outrageous thing I learned from watching all those videos... the rest was no surprise, as unfortunately the majority of the rest does go with the territory of working in retail... it's simply not the sort of job that most people would want to pursue as a career... although some retailers do offer enough benefits to make it reasonably worth your while to stay with the company and work your way up the corporate ladder as far as you can get before retiring and collecting pensions from them...

now as for fair use, if we didn't have a world so full of selfish greedy assholes expecting perpetual exclusivity forever, just because they did whatever first, our courts wouldn't be so tied up with so much bullshit that the things people really should be sued for don't reward the plaintiffs with what they deserve!

sure, the person who was first deserves some recognition for it, but after that... FUCK 'EM! why should they just keep on getting richer and richer from it, while tons of people who had the same or similar ideas that were even better get NOTHING, just because some other asshole beat them to it? FUCK THAT! it's only yet another reason why we have so many huge corporations running amok these days, acting like the whole world owes them the world!

V for vendetta... free yourselves from their slavery... YOU have the power!

[megasdkirby]

I remember that near Sears is a local GameStop (Santa Rosa Mall) and I once asked the manager about a job there (kidding of course, and he knew that since we talk a lot), and all he said was...

"Josh, stick with Sears. TRUST ME."

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

"paperless" debit-card payroll is a very very very common procedure with corporations with millions of employees.

Do you have any idea how much money companies SAVE a year by not mailing out paper payroll checks/stubs on a weekly basis?

Thousands of dollars easily.

And as far as the allegations of "forcing" employees to use these cards or not have any other option ...

... if an employee has a checking account, they can get direct depoist.

If you have a job where you make more than $100 a week, you should REALLY have a checking account, no?

Though, if they don't, they can get the "employee debit account" which is maintained by the corporation's payroll department like a bank account tied to their debit card, and yes, there are charges on cash withdrawls from ATMs ... but seriously, you ALWAYS get charged per ATM withdrawl unless it's your "home" bank.

Even if they got PAPER checks ... if they don't have a bank account ... they're going to have to go to a check cashing facility, which usually charge a hell of a lot more than a $2 ATM fee.

[TonyTheTiger]

now as for fair use, if we didn't have a world so full of selfish greedy assholes expecting perpetual exclusivity forever, just because they did whatever first, our courts wouldn't be so tied up with so much bullshit that the things people really should be sued for don't reward the plaintiffs with what they deserve!

Copyright law exists for two reasons. Some countries focus more on one than the other but both theories keep it going.

1) Because of a moral concept that a person's creative work is an extension of him or herself and he/she should be entitled to that work and all the benefits that come along with it. Likewise, he/she should have the power to decide the fate of the work.

2) To encourage creative endeavors. A purely utilitarian notion exists that argues copyright law is important because without notable benefits creators won't create and thus society would be stifled.

[Lady Jaye]

Now, the videos are being mentioned on wired's Game|Life section. Guess the road to fame is mediocrity, isn't it?

[Poofta!]

Frankie, I feel like I was too hard on you with the whole "pompous ass" thing. I was just coming out of the handicapped parking thread and I was still fuming a bit. Sorry man :)

Anyway, there's a valid question here. How much can you borrow from someone else's "style" until it's considered copyright infringement. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's nothing actually "stolen" from a ZP review in these, right? Just the general idea is what is taken.

It reminds me of a case where some potato chip company wanted Tom Waits to do a commercial for them. He refused, so they got a guy that sounded like him to do the commercial. Tom Waits sued, saying that they were ripping off his style and tarnishing his no-commercial philosophy, and Waits won. So it's hard to say how much you can rip somebody off before it becomes a criminal offense.

i dont think any of it is copyright infringement if there is no patent. and afaik you cant copyright STYLE. style is meant to have many similar things under it (ESPECIALLY ART! - did Renoir shamelessly rip off Monet?!)

edit: regarding ID's copyright thoughts: i have to agree, having such strong control over this actually stifles creativity, if someone thinks of a way of improving an existing technology, they are pretty much screwed since they can never bring it to light. likewise as everyone knows these days, patent farms exist for the sole purpose of copyrighting vague prototype-less ideas and just sit on hundreds of them waiting on someone to make something vaguely similar and sue the hell out of them. patents should expire 1 year after file if no progress is made or 4 years if it brings a profit. better products will surface if people dont have to worry about stepping on greedy asshole's toes.

[Oobgarm]

http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/img/facepalm.jpeg

Thank you.

[G-Boobie]

Now, the videos are being mentioned on wired's Game|Life section. Guess the road to fame is mediocrity, isn't it?

Yeah, it looks that way :(

[Icarus Moonsight]

"paperless" debit-card payroll is a very very very common procedure with corporations with millions of employees.

I've seen Visa/MC mostly. But, Comdata? Never for payroll from a major retail chain. It's mostly used by the transport logistics industry. I don't even know how to use a Comdata card unless your buying diesel, and/or getting a cash out at a truck stop or as an ATM card.

Your job sucks, plus, they hold your wage hostage for 'interest ransom'. I knew GameStop was scummy and all, but this is just ludicrous. I guess in this day and age it's wonderful to have asshole policies as long as it saves paper...

"Take it in the ass and save a tree!!!" LOL

LJ/G-Boobie: Riding the coat tails of others that have already made it is the classic way to success and notoriety. The oddest thing is the rants are about stuff the target audience [should] already know.

[TonyTheTiger]

Maybe I'm just disappointed at the whole "no shit, Sherlock" feeling the whole thing gave me. Throughout the rant he had this attitude that came across as "I'm from the inside and let me tell you about what this mysterious world is really like." When in reality he decided to go off and explain that Gamestop charges more than Amazon and Craig's List. :-/ Like, are you serious?

And bringing up Gamecrazy is kind of a double edged sword, as well. There aren't exactly a whole lot of those. I have maybe 4 within reasonable driving distance and they're all further than 7 or 8 Gamestops that each have larger inventories. So doing used game browsing wouldn't necessarily be that practical if I avoided Gamestop like the plague. Not to mention Gamestop's online inventory search is incredibly useful even if it is a little unreliable at times.

While I was all geared up to hear how Gamestop employees wipe their asses with game manuals when customers aren't looking and how corporate headquarters refuses to hire minorities, all I ended up getting was, "Yeah, retail sucks."

[boatofcar]

While I was all geared up to hear how Gamestop employees wipe their asses with game manuals when customers aren't looking and how corporate headquarters refuses to hire minorities, all I ended up getting was, "Yeah, retail sucks."

QFT. You could make these videos for most retail chains.

[roushimsx]

While I was all geared up to hear how Gamestop employees wipe their asses with game manuals when customers aren't looking and how corporate headquarters refuses to hire minorities

I smell a potentially awesome spinoff series of videos waiting to be made.

Don't forget to mention the standing company policy that any stray dogs or cats found wandering outside of the store during closing time are to be strangled and thrown in the trash out back.

[Jorpho]

If he had just sat in front of a camera and said all the stuff he said slowly and clearly, I think it would not only be more interesting, but there wouldn't be the inherent problem of him not being understood by some.

Then again, his exposure seems to be pretty high at the moment over this ... so, perhaps he had the right idea.

Indeed. There have been articles by ex-Gamestop employees before that weren't half as noteworthy as this. Which is not to say that it is not possible to write an article or essay or whatever that puts these videos to shame. Remember the Acts of Gord? (That, of course, was at least partially a work of fiction.)

I also wanted to mention that though it seems like a small thing, the white backgrounds really do a lot to set these apart from Yahtzee's work.


Now, the videos are being mentioned on wired's Game|Life section. Guess the road to fame is mediocrity, isn't it?

You mean Wired.com ? I don't see it.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I've seen Visa/MC mostly. But, Comdata? Never for payroll from a major retail chain. It's mostly used by the transport logistics industry. I don't even know how to use a Comdata card unless your buying diesel, and/or getting a cash out at a truck stop or as an ATM card.

Your job sucks, plus, they hold your wage hostage for 'interest ransom'. I knew GameStop was scummy and all, but this is just ludicrous. I guess in this day and age it's wonderful to have asshole policies as long as it saves paper...

"Take it in the ass and save a tree!!!" LOL

LJ/G-Boobie: Riding the coat tails of others that have already made it is the classic way to success and notoriety. The oddest thing is the rants are about stuff the target audience [should] already know.

It's not about saving paper, it's about saving stamps, as in postage, as in cash money, this isn't an environmentally friendly move by Gamestop. It's a money friendly one.

And again ... if you're working a minimum wage job that pays more than $100 a week - get a free, low-to-no-interest checking account at your local bank, they'll give you a Visa check card, and you're good to go.

Of course, you'll still have to pay fees on ATMs.

Everybody pays fees on ATMs.

And if it wasn't clear the first time - if you're getting paper checks and you don't have a checking account, the hoops and fees you'll have to jump through and pay to get them cahsed are just as if not more expensive than a meager ATM fee.

Seriously guys ... there are some valid points made in these videos, but not everything that this kid is saying holds water.

If you're too lazy to open a checking account and fill out a direct-deposit form, then you deserve to have an odd-branded ATM card that's controlled by the company you work for.

[roushimsx]

Of course, you'll still have to pay fees on ATMs.

Everybody pays fees on ATMs.


Depends on the bank and which networks they cut deals with. A lot of banks on the Allpoint and KeyBank networks don't have any surcharge at all (or if there is a surcharge, they'll refund it to you). If you're stuck with a bank screwing you on ATM transaction fees, you should shop around for a new bank.

[Lady Jaye]

Jorpho: http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/09/video-youtube-s.html

[Oobgarm]

Gave these more of a watch and came to the conclusion that this person worked for either a shitty manager or was a shitty employee, was extremely lazy and bitched about having to do actual work they were being paid to do, and was intending to be a thief and complained about the fact that they were being "searched" for the possibility of theft.

As a former GameStop employee for 7+years(1998-2005), I shall offer my thoughts on the points this fellow is trying to make:

1. The Game Informer Subscription/Edge Card.

We pitched these for the entire time I worked for the company, all the way back to the FuncoLand days. It was their idea to begin with, one that GameStop clung to after the buyout. Generally speaking, this employee is a bit too harsh on the value of the card/sub. It all depends on the customer's buying habits as to whether or not the card will be 'worth it' for them-and that determination of worth varies from person to person.

I was pretty good at offering them to customers, mainly since I only seriously offered it to those people I felt could really justify the purchase. I'd ask if people had the card with almost everyone buying used, but only went into the 'pitch' if they asked for more information or if they were buying enough at one time to make it worth getting.

I personally do have one, mainly since I do like reading the magazine and do use the card from time to time for trade-ups and discounts.

Bottom Line? It's a perceived value.

2. Trade In condition/etc.

This is where I was shown that this guy's manager was incompetent. I never had a recurring problem while I worked there. Our store took pride in what we accepted on trade and what our customers left with. We always sold the best looking stuff first, and were up-front about condition. There was(is?) a refurbish sku for a reason...so the crap doesn't get sold and returned. Of course you're going to have a return here and there, but the story he tells is a sign of poor management.

If they never tried systems out competently before the took them in, they weren't doing their jobs.

3. Menial tasks/actual work/customers.

Having to sticker game cases and organize the displays? This guy actually has the audacity to complain about performing the tasks he was hired to do? That's why it's called WORK. Best Buy may have spoiled him a bit since their main focus is to sell only and leave the merchandising stuff for the designated crew, but 97% of retail work isn't like that. (I made up that statistic, though it's gotta be close)

And he's met the general public. Welcome to the real world. No matter where you go, it comes with the territory.

4. Dismal trade-in values.

I don't like them, either. But GameStop makes more money in one month than most people will likely ever earn in their entire lifetime. This is one of the few places where you can actually learn the company's markup factors without being an insider, so it's an easy target. Other places are just as bad, only it's not public information.

If you think you got your money's worth out of a game and have absolutely no regard for what you get in return, I don't see what the problem is. I strongly believe that the adage 'a fool and his money are soon parted' applies here. Don't like the trade in value? Don't do it. If you're buying, trading in, and buying something else and then complaining about the trade-in prices, you're a fool.

5. Theft Searches.

People aren't being frisked. Can't blame a company for wanting to protect their assets. Videogames have a rather high theft rate.

6. Payroll.

This is the major point that I actually agreed 100% with. Forcing employees to use this system is completely ridiculous. It was instituted while I was there, so I know full well of how it works. GameStop gets a kickback; I'd be willing to bet any amount of money.

But seriously-you need a checking account one way or the other, so why not get one(or jointly with a parent/guardian) so you can avoid this headache? And if you're having trouble getting direct deposit set up, don't give up until it's taken care of.

[Lady Jaye]

Yeah. My only experience working retail was at Canadian Tire (hardware department store) and I worked in the auto parts department. My job was to empty the new shipments, restock the shelves, do an inventory, clean up paint (yay for people who try out spray paint on the edge of shelves or on plastified factsheets)... I also had to help customers out.

And then the store manager decided that I was going to put together the giant Christmas tree, since I didn't work on Fridays.

Like any job there were some good and some bad things to remember, but it helped pay the bills before my career actually started, and I learned a lot about how retail stores work, which actually came in handy in my job as a translator. Oh, and I'm horrible at merchandising. It's not easy to set up a wall properly.

BTW, our bags were checked for theft before we left the store after every work shift. Never had a problem with that, since if you're honest you'll understand why it's been done. Even my previous office job had a daily search requirement, and that was also justified because the warehouse was in the same building as the head office.

[Nature Boy]

Yeah. My only experience working retail was at Canadian Tire (hardware department store) and I worked in the auto parts department. My job was to empty the new shipments, restock the shelves, do an inventory, clean up paint (yay for people who try out spray paint on the edge of shelves or on plastified factsheets)... I also had to help customers out.

Hey, a fellow Crappy Tire employee!

I worked in the automotive department back when I was in high school. Knew nothing about cars but that's where they needed people so that's where I was put. Restocked shelves, helped customers find parts for their cars, refilled batteries with acid, carried salt to cars for customers who needed help. Good times.

I think these videos are great. It's great that someone so young has figured out what's going wrong with the system and they know exactly what they'd do to fix it. Now they just have to put their money where their mouth is!

(And in no time they'll be grumbling that the staff wants too much money and they can't find *anybody* qualified enough and why don't they just get to it and stock those damn shelves?)...

[skaar]

Old thread - but the dude's account got suspended. Was just looking through old threads and came across this old 'un.

Anyone know what happened?

[Kitsune Sniper]

Gamestop got pissy and had them taken down?