PS3 taking BC totally out What the Heck

[swlovinist]

I want to first start this post with the fact that I own a PS3 20 gig and love it. I just recently noticed that the the "new" PS3 80GB will not be backwards compatible with PS2 games at all. What the heck? Is Sony that stupid? Does this mean that all new PS3s wont be able to play PS2 games at all? From a business standpoint, to alienate the 140 million console users that bought the PS2 by not allowing backwards compatibility on the upgraded system is pretty lame. The days of not having backwards compatibility are over. To not even have software emulation available for the PS2 on the new system will definitely get people talking. The ironic thing about the PS3 as the "everything machine" that plays Blu-Ray, DVD, CD, surf the net, attach a keyboard is missing one very big advantage...playing the games that helped it get there in the first place.


Sony...you have stupid monkeys coming up with your strategy to win back owners.


I apologize for the rant, I am actually a big Sony fan, that is just frustrated on how they are marketing the PS3. People are going to be confused.

[RyanMurf]

I want to first start this post with the fact that I own a PS3 20 gig and love it. I love SONY I just recently noticed that the the "new" PS3 80GB will not be backwards compatible with PS2 games at all. What the heck? Is Sony that stupid? Does this mean that all new PS3s wont be able to play PS2 games at all? From a business standpoint, to alienate the 140 million console users that bought the PS2 by not allowing backwards compatibility on the upgraded system is pretty lame. The days of not having backwards compatibility are over. To not even have software emulation available for the PS2 on the new system will definitely get people talking. The ironic thing about the PS3 as the "everything machine" that plays Blu-Ray, DVD, CD, surf the net, attach a keyboard is missing one very big advantage...playing the games that helped it get there in the first place.


Sony...you have stupid monkeys coming up with your strategy to win back owners.


I apologize for the rant, I am actually a big Sony fan, that is just frustrated on how they are marketing the PS3

I understand what you are saying but if BC is so important to you that you have to make a thread about it then just hold on to your ps2? If you never had a ps2 just go on ebay and pick one up for around 40-60 bucks? When you think about it you actually save money by buying a ps2 and a 40GB ps3 versus buying one of the 80gb BC ps3's ( which now after reading your post they dont sell anymore).

http://cgi.ebay.com/SONY-PLAYSTATION-2-SYSTEM-USED_W0QQitemZ130253483252QQihZ003QQcategoryZ13997 1QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/used-ps2-system-2-controllers-7-games-mem-card-w-manual_W0QQitemZ150292291848QQihZ005QQcategoryZ139 971QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/Sony-PlayStation-2-console-system-slim-USED_W0QQitemZ110287434871QQihZ001QQcategoryZ13997 1QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[swlovinist]

I was just ranting for the millions of people out there that rare probably on the fence about getting the PS3 this holiday. The fact that there wont be a choice of any BC in the newer sytems is pretty lame. In a fierce heated battle over consumers, who if won over will invest their hard earned money into a console, this decision seems just plain retarded. Being an ex-retail gamestore employee/manager saying that it is easy to keep the old system hooked up does not work that well. People will be pissed and speak with their wallet.

[Pantechnicon]

Is this a new thing or are there already a few units out there like this in the U.S. market? My son's friend got a PS3 for his birthday last April and we bought him a new PS2 game to go along with it. His dad told me a couple of days later they couldn't get the game to work. It worked in my PS2 afterwards so I know it wasn't the disc. I've never laid hands on a PS3, including this one, so I haven't really had a chance to test this for myself.

[swlovinist]

Is this a new thing or are there already a few units out there like this in the U.S. market? My son's friend got a PS3 for his birthday last April and we bought him a new PS2 game to go along with it. His dad told me a couple of days later they couldn't get the game to work. It worked in my PS2 afterwards so I know it wasn't the disc. I've never laid hands on a PS3, including this one, so I haven't really had a chance to test this for myself.

The 40 GIG did not have any PS2 BC. The previous 80GB did by downloading software emu online.

The new "80 GIG" will be the same as the 40GB. While it is stated on the box that it wont play PS2 games, people still wont get it.

Your story is a perfect example of why people are going to be pissed.

[geneshifter]

Yeah, well, I hate Sony and it's crap like this why I'll keep playing my 360.

[intvsama]

Fact - Sony is losing money on every PS3 sold
Fact - Sony is making money on every PS2 sold

Solution - Remove PS2 compatability so if people want to play PS2 games they'll have to buy a PS2, Sony makes money.

I agree from a consumer standpoint it sucks nuts that Sony pulled BC out of the PS3, but if you people want Sony to stay in the race they need to make money somewhere in their games division.

[scooterb23]

Yeah, well, I hate Sony and it's crap like this why I'll keep playing my 360.

So, how's that full backwards compatibility on the 360 working out for you? Seriously now, every company does things that don't make sense...you just have to shake your head, and move on.

[Pantechnicon]

Your story is a perfect example of why people are going to be pissed.

Indeed. The reason we got him a PS2 game (Spongebob: Atlantis Squarepantis) in the first place was because of the bigger catalog and to sort of point out to his parents that they didn't necessarily have to shell out $60 a game when there were plenty of fun PS2 titles for half or less that price. This is the kid's first game console anyway so he would have been none the wiser. However, on his last visit to our house he even said he liked our PS2 better than his own PS3, so that cat's out of the bag. :roll:

I can tell you that this makes it considerably less likely that I'll be buying a PS3 in the foreseeable future.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

It's been said before here, but I'll reiterate and attempt to expand on it.

It's a cost cutting measure.

The number one gripe that consumers had about the PS3 at launch was it's cost.

Sony had Emotion Engine chips in there along with actual PS2 processors in the launch 20 and 60 gig units.

PS2's still cost about $100 MSRP, and the cost of including that hardware in the PS3 was reflective.

So, Sony took the hardware out and provided a less expensive model with emulated PS2, AND a MUCH less expensive unit with no backwards compatibility.

Money is still lost on every PS3 sold globally, and Sony still sells millions and millions of PS2 units globally. It's not really a viable option to deter consumers from purchasing PS2 systems at this point in time.

What Sony wants to do is get PS3 owners to focus on making purchases for their PS3 via PS3 games and on the PSN, AND get PS2 owners to continue to perpetuate that hardware/software market.

And, there's always this to take into consideration - at SOME point, sales on PS2 hardware will slow, and software production will drop to a place where Sony is no longer concerned about maintaining it's shelf space in the marketplace.

I'm guessing at that point we'll see PS2 compatibility return to PS3's (likely in some type of emulation).

Until then, it's not like it's IMPOSSIBLE to find a PS2 compatible PS3. 80 gig units with BC are still out there at retail (The MGS4 pack most notably), and even if you CAN'T find one ... it's not like they only made them BC for an ultra-limited period. It's been about two years.

As much as it sucks to see it go ... you snooze you lose.

And for the record, ALL PS3s are PS1 backwards compatible, so it's ONLY PS2 BC that we're losing.

[heybtbm]

I'm guessing at that point we'll see PS2 compatibility return to PS3's (likely in some type of emulation).

I'm sure we will too. Sony wants to make money from future downloadable PS2 titles (just like Microsoft is with the "Xbox Originals" on XBL). There is no doubt Sony is currently developing a near 100% compatible PS2 emulator to facilitate this.

[Trebuken]

I hope PS2 compatibility returns but I am not so sure it will. They are counting on new titles and Blu-Ray to sell the system. PS2 games are still churning out but there is clearly a dwindling.

Besides with 120 million or so PS2 units sold everyone who wants to play PS2 games likely has one...yeah I know you don't want to hook up two consoles but it's no big deal.

I think Microsoft's failure to continue with backwards compatibility (last update, November 2007 is actually a bigger deal...

Nintendo is actually winning the backward compatibility war also...damn I so want to hate the Wii...

[dao2]

thats why i got myself a nice 60 gig model :D

[briskbc]

I wouldn't be surprised if this was the first step to making BC a $20 download. There may be too many systems out there with the feature built in for this generation. Maybe next gen.

[TurboGenesis]

And for the record, ALL PS3s are PS1 backwards compatible, so it's ONLY PS2 BC that we're losing.

Right, not big deal because John and Jane Doe can easily get PS1 games at:

Gamestop
Wal-Mart
Target
K-Mart

:hmm:

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Right, not big deal because John and Jane Doe can easily get PS1 games at:

Gamestop
Wal-Mart
Target
K-Mart

:hmm:

Yeah, well, ease of availability of the titles aside, the issue I was addressing was the TITLE of the thread.

"... taking BC totally out ..."

They're not taking it TOTALLY out, just the PS2 BC.

I was only clarifying.

[Raedon]

Ahh! The days when no system offered any compatibility except for the console name stamped on the plastic.

Why is everyone so upset about having to have a PS2 around? I keep a couple of PS1s because some games just don't work on the PS2. Tempest X and Tomb Raider 1 don't work on a PS2.

[Kid Ice]

I had a 60 GB PS3 for about 6 months.

I thought with "virtual memory cards" it would be a nice solution to managing my large ps1/ps2 collection without juggling all these memory cards. Plus I thought remote play on the PSP would be a nice plus.

These are the problems I encountered:

-it's not 100% BC with PS1. One of the first PS1 games I tried (C12 Final Resistance) did not work. This title is confirmed not working, among others, on Sony's BC database. There are also a fair number of games that have glitches.

-it's not 100% BC with PS2. Some games just don't work. A fair number have glitches.

-On a real PS2 I can adjust the screen size on my HDTV. For example, I can play Gradius V in widescreen. While this may be "impure", I think most games look better widescreen on a widescreen TV. With the PS3, I'm not allowed to adjust the screen size.

-Forget games with specialized controllers. Forget GH1 (yes, I tried it with a PS2 usb adaptor, yes I know I can get the songs on PS3 GH). Forget playing Wipeout with a NegCon or Ace Combat 2 with a flight stick. Now I know someone is going to say "Hey wait a minute, I got those controllers to work!" Fine. I'm in the business of PLAYING games, not GETTING games to work.

-virtual memory cards take an awful lot of maintenance. You have to virtually plug in your memory card each session (as opposed to leaving the same card in for a couple months as I commonly would on my non-virtual PS1). Really, the difference between swapping out real cards and constantly setting up virtual cards is moot. It's hard to know which is less convenient.

-remote play is like Bigfoot. I have heard about it from many people, but never actually witnessed it working. I did get Einhander to kind of work while sitting three feet from my PS3. The concept is awesome...it's like someone is sitting there with a camera on your PS3 screen, and you can control it....but it doesn't work properly. Again it's another thing you have to GET to work. I'm too old for that kind of thing.

There were other things about the system I did like, but IMO the BC for both systems was sub-par.

[Poofta!]

first of all, old news.
secondly, one big advantage of ps3 BC (vs having a ps2) is hdmi 1080p upconversion, those of us with modern TVs know how important (and better) this is.
dont forget that overall, BC is something very new to console gaming, (ps2 was first since the gaming crash) and that was almost purely accidental (it shared the architecture w/ ps1, whereas ps3 does not). so dont take BC for granted.
finally, sony is smart, it doesnt WANT you to buy a ps3 to be able to play your old ps2 games. sony LOSES money on each ps3 sold, it only makes it back on the games, therefor it wants you to buy ps3 games. so please dont mistake sony for idiots, they are not (although whats his face was =P)

edit: kid ice, i dont know when you had your ps3, but most of those are fixed now. i dont remember the last time i had to 'manage' my virtual mem cards =P

[Chadt74]

Why is everyone so upset about having to have a PS2 around?

Because I really don't want to have two systems hooked up to my TV taking up room in my living room. It is such a pain esp since I have my TV mounted on the wall hooking up the system is yet another pain. I am all for anything that makes my life easier.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

edit: kid ice, i dont know when you had your ps3, but most of those are fixed now. i dont remember the last time i had to 'manage' my virtual mem cards =P

If you have a multitude of PS1 and PS2 memory cards "created" ... it'll at the very least force you to set the ones you want up in Virtual Slot 1 or Virtual Slot 2 ... but just like a PS1 or PS2, if the game "searches" both slots, for the correct format card/save you should be good from there, and the cards that you've "left" assigned should "stay" assigned until you un-assign them.

A fine feature of the PS3 is that if you have the Memory Card reader/writer, you can actually write the virtual cards OUT to cards of the "real" variety.

[Kitsune Sniper]

A fine feature of the PS3 is that if you have the Memory Card reader/writer, you can actually write the virtual cards OUT to cards of the "real" variety.

... Can I do this on a Windows machine?

I'd love to be able to take downloaded game saves and use them on my games... sorry for the off topicness >_>

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

... Can I do this on a Windows machine?

I'd love to be able to take downloaded game saves and use them on my games... sorry for the off topicness >_>

The short answer is no. No PC drivers for the device.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Why is everyone so upset about having to have a PS2 around?

Maybe because BC is a standard feature, mostly, thanks to Sony. The most expensive box omitting a 'standard feature' is read as a rip off.

[norkusa]

first of all, old news.
secondly, one big advantage of ps3 BC (vs having a ps2) is hdmi 1080p upconversion, those of us with modern TVs know how important (and better) this is.

This is exactly why I want a BC PS3. I have a crappy early Vizio L37 and PS1/PS2 games look like total garbage on it with a PStwo. You can literally count the individual pixels from 5 feet away because they're so chunky.

It's so bad that with the exception of a few Bemani titles, I've pretty much stopped playing Playstation games all together. Would be a totally different story if I had a BC PS3 though.

[chrisbid]

Ahh! The days when no system offered any compatibility except for the console name stamped on the plastic.

Why is everyone so upset about having to have a PS2 around? I keep a couple of PS1s because some games just don't work on the PS2. Tempest X and Tomb Raider 1 don't work on a PS2.

the biggest reason is HD upscaling. A PS2, even with component cables looks like garbage on an HD set (save for the painfully few games that support progressive scan). As a collector, im keeping my older systems, but they will remained hooked up to an SD television. My 60GB PS3 (look for used ones on gamestops website, 449 is a deal and a half compared to ebay) will play most ps1 and ps2 games and make them look halfway decent on an HD set.

[Chadt74]

Ok so what is the the best PS3 to get for BC? is it the 60 gig (sounds like it) or the 80 gig with emulation?

[Putney]

60 gig is probably the best since it's PS2 hardware in there, while the old 80 gigs are software emulation. Though harder to find, 20 gig models work too (they lack the memory card reader and the built in wi-fi, but are cheaper). When I finally broke down and bought a PS3 this summer, I managed to get a refurb'd 60 gig, and then retired my PS2 to the bedroom.

I think the simple fact is, it's a pain in the ass to keep too many systems hooked up at once. I keep the current gen ones in my living room, the classics in the bedroom, because otherwise it's just way too much clutter.

[Zing]

Why is everyone so upset about having to have a PS2 around? I keep a couple of PS1s because some games just don't work on the PS2. Tempest X and Tomb Raider 1 don't work on a PS2.

Because the PS2 compatibility was there to begin with and is being taken out? We know that PS2 games can be played via software, so we know they are intentionally crippling the system.

In regards to the PS1 games on PS2 thing, there are literally about a dozen games (out of how many?) that have any sort of issue on the PS2, and most are just cosmetic problems.

[alexkidd2000]

I have a 60GB but none of my PS2 games work in it. heh.

In all honesty though, I think most people who care about BC, have already purchased a system.

[Sudo]

I have a 60GB but none of my PS2 games work in it. heh.

In all honesty though, I think most people who care about BC, have already purchased a system.

Seriously? I have about 50 games, and all of the ones I've tried have worked perfectly.

[Leo_A]

They never emulated the PS2, just 1 chip. There still was some PS2 hardware inside.

[Poofta!]

I have a 60GB but none of my PS2 games work in it. heh.

In all honesty though, I think most people who care about BC, have already purchased a system.

i think you got scammed then lol. unless you have only 2 ps2 games, which just happen to not work - and they are quite horrible anyway.


anyway, buying a ps3 60gb for upconverting is the SOLE purpose i own it. i got it on ebay when Microsoft was doing their 35% cashback promotion (lol yes MS helped pay for my model!) and i managed to get a pristine one. however you can get great complete models on www.gamefunk.com (380$) i got my Sony BD remote from them. good company, reliable.