View Full Version : Has anyone cd games suffered from bit-rot yet?
courtesi96
09-26-2008, 08:19 PM
Title tells all. I'm like Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde.... Yes I'd like to buy the game... but no it's a waste because eventually they will rot... but I must have.... no you cannot....
Anyone else go through this insanity?
megasdkirby
09-26-2008, 08:21 PM
No, fortunately.
But I try to conserve them as much as possible, though.
darkslime
09-26-2008, 08:26 PM
Aren't they supposed to last like 100 years though?
We'll probably be dead before they go to waste.
What's the best way to conserve?
backguard
09-26-2008, 08:39 PM
What's the best way to conserve?
buy sealed, don't open?
Sniderman
09-26-2008, 09:41 PM
This old chestnut again, eh? Well, here's the definitive thread discussing this very topic:
How long do CD-based games last? (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=114983&highlight=losing+data)
Read through it and draw your own conclusions. There are many opinions, many facts, and links to other research on the topic. There is everything from "It's a myth" to "CDs start rotting the moment you open the package."
Read up, do your homework, and let us know what the final answer is since we've not had a concrete final answer in 12+ years...
Kitsune Sniper
09-26-2008, 09:45 PM
I dunno about CD games... but I've bought several audio CDs from the 1980's, and at least two PC games, that literally had pinholes in them for some reason. These holes leave certain tracks and / or files partially unplayable.
Could that be the real "bitrot"?
ryborg
09-26-2008, 09:54 PM
It hasn't happened to any store-bought retail CD games of mine, but I have had many first and second generation CD-R "backups" that have deteriorated over the years to the point of being unplayable.
jb143
09-27-2008, 12:17 AM
Just keep a bit-bucket under your cd's to catch any bits that might be leaking out.
Sorry, old CS joke.
theChad
09-27-2008, 01:15 AM
I dunno about CD games... but I've bought several audio CDs from the 1980's, and at least two PC games, that literally had pinholes in them for some reason. These holes leave certain tracks and / or files partially unplayable.
Could that be the real "bitrot"?
One of my copies of Road Rash for 3DO would skip during some of the FMVs and then would just freeze altogether, so I tried cleaning the disc a few times and even had it resurfaced (although the disc seriously seemed fine, and I'd heard stories of CDs you couldn't even make out the outline of your reflection in playing just fine) but it still had the problem.
I asked the guy at one of my local game stores what he thought about it, and the first thing he did was hold it up to the light and showed me three pinholes in the disc. I figured it was probably damage that was done to the top of the CD, but now I'm thinking could it possibly be bitrot?
Frankie_Says_Relax
09-27-2008, 09:13 AM
Only on CDR burns I made using a 2nd generation CDR drive, and only after a period of about 10 years to total failure of the software.
I've heard that newer drives and better technology in the CDR disc manufacturing proceess make for better archival discs.
Of course there's a massive difference in the "burning" process that a CDR and "pressing" process that a retail CD goes through, and since I've been buying CD format games since they introduced the tech and experienced zero issues with failure based on age ... I'm more inclined to believe that if kept in the proper conditions that they'll last a very very long time.
Kitsune Sniper
09-27-2008, 09:56 AM
One of my copies of Road Rash for 3DO would skip during some of the FMVs and then would just freeze altogether, so I tried cleaning the disc a few times and even had it resurfaced (although the disc seriously seemed fine, and I'd heard stories of CDs you couldn't even make out the outline of your reflection in playing just fine) but it still had the problem.
I asked the guy at one of my local game stores what he thought about it, and the first thing he did was hold it up to the light and showed me three pinholes in the disc. I figured it was probably damage that was done to the top of the CD, but now I'm thinking could it possibly be bitrot?
That's exactly what happened to some of my music CDs. I found a sorta valuable soundtrack album for a Steven Seagal movie and it had those pinholes, so I was bummed. It was actually a decent album. :\
I have copies of The 11th Hour and Dune that have this same issue. And they're both over ten years old...
SpaceHarrier
09-27-2008, 05:15 PM
Is it possible for a good ol red laser to go "deathstar" on a cd every once in awhile? Always been curious... Might explain those pinholes. :?
Haoie
09-27-2008, 08:30 PM
I always thought this CD rot was a bit of an urban legend.
At least in the short term. It's supposed to last for decades, if not centuries.
ProgrammingAce
09-27-2008, 08:39 PM
I don't know why people think this is imaginary...
My copy of GTA4 has already oxydized itself, it's completely unplayable due to poor quality materials.
Also, take a good look at saturn titles. They used a different plastic, some of the games are starting to "weep" (basically they're sweating an oil-like substance). I don't think saturn games are too long for this world.
otaku
09-27-2008, 10:49 PM
I've never had a problem. Only cd problems I've had were do to scratching or bad drives. My 360's drive is evil
crazyjackcsa
09-28-2008, 07:29 AM
I don't know why people think this is imaginary...
My copy of GTA4 has already oxydized itself, it's completely unplayable due to poor quality materials.
Also, take a good look at saturn titles. They used a different plastic, some of the games are starting to "weep" (basically they're sweating an oil-like substance). I don't think saturn games are too long for this world.
I've never had any problems with any of my Saturn games, and I'm not getting this weeping you mention. Over 120 Games in various condition and they all play like the day they were new.
TT
G-Boobie
09-28-2008, 08:06 AM
I don't know why people think this is imaginary...
My copy of GTA4 has already oxydized itself, it's completely unplayable due to poor quality materials.
Also, take a good look at saturn titles. They used a different plastic, some of the games are starting to "weep" (basically they're sweating an oil-like substance). I don't think saturn games are too long for this world.
There's apparently some sort of broad luck-system involved in this issue: I've never had a single problem with bit rot with any pressed optical media. Ever. And I have a pretty ridiculous number of discs, from laserdiscs to UMD to Blu-ray. Easily thousands. They all work just fine. If it weren't for the internet, I'd have never heard of physical bit rot.
Thanks to that same internet though, I no longer doubt that it's a problem. I was wrong.
I still think it's far from the apocalyptic crisis that some people have made it out to be, though. It's another case of the internet blowing things way out of proportion. You'll never wake up to find that your entire Saturn collection is ruined by bit rot. That shit copy protection on the edge of the disc getting scratched, maybe. But not bit rot.
maxlords
09-28-2008, 08:29 AM
I've seen one disc with rot ever. And it was a Jp Saturn game. I suspect it's a combination of factors including poor materials, poor storage (i.e. moisture, sunlight, etc) and blind luck. Store your collection in a dark, dry, cool room and you should be fine :)
ice1605
09-28-2008, 03:09 PM
I have only seen one, an old copy of Sol-Feace for SegaCD that I got from a Goodwill store. Other than that, I have never seen a CD with bitrot.
bcks007
09-28-2008, 07:41 PM
How do you tell if a cd has bitrot? The people who've said they've seen it, describe what it looks like....
gum_drops
09-28-2008, 07:48 PM
How do you tell if a cd has bitrot? The people who've said they've seen it, describe what it looks like....
Hold the disc up to the light, label side pointing up. Look for what appear to be small pinholes where light coming through. Make sure there are not any little areas of wear on the label side as that would also cause light to shine through and look like bit rot.
cyberfluxor
09-28-2008, 09:11 PM
To throw out my expirences since I last posted in a bit-rot thread, I've still have yet to see it. Most of my stuff is in my room or closet which are air conditioned and nothing sits in either direct sunlight or within warm/hot zones where there's lots of sunlight pouring into a room during the day. The media this consists of are: CDs, LPs, LDs, VHS tapes, and DVDs from various years/generations of manufacturing. I've only had a few floppy diskettes go bad but that's due to a few being displaced within close proximity of speakers and other EMF emitting devices.
As a side note though, the expirence means I had something that worked 100% fine and over elapsed time have stopped. I have a few CD-Rs I care nothing about that after years of use sitting in my car (sometimes direct sunlight) suffered from flaking, but still play where there's reflective material. There are a couple of Saturn games I bought last year (were in the same bunch at a store) that had a few small holes in the CD artcover. I didn't realise they were there but the games still work if you don't read those bad sectors, whatever part of the game that is I have no clue. And since they were there before I bought them there's no telling how it happened (misuse, wear, or natural).
ice1605
09-28-2008, 09:19 PM
I thought that I should point out, however, that my Sol-Feace disc still works, so even if the pinholes are there (on a data disc), it may still work (because of the error-checking and redundancy portions of the CD).
DigitalSpace
09-28-2008, 10:32 PM
No game discs, but my copy of Metallica's Ride The Lightning has some small damage on one fourth of the edge of the disc. Fortunately, it's not deep enough to affect play.
blue lander
09-29-2008, 11:15 AM
From what I've read, if your disc was pressed poorly it'll suffer from bit rot pretty quickly after you bought it. If you've had a disc for more than a few years and it's still fine, then it'll probably stay fine.
Oobgarm
09-29-2008, 12:19 PM
Not with games here either, but I did have a store-bought audio CD develop a pinhole.
Didn't think it was bitrot, just suspected shitty manufacturing. Still do.
jb143
09-29-2008, 12:27 PM
I'm pretty sure the data layer can be damaged from the label side of the disk. That might be whats going on here. I completely blasted off the top of a CD with a tesla coil once and ended up with a clear disk and a carpet full of glitter. Scraching, rubbing, touching, or dropping a disk might do the same thing a "pin-prick" at a time.
I have had a handful of audio CDs from the early 90s rot away. As someone else said, they develop pinholes in the silver layer for no apparent reason. So far, I have only had it happen on CDs that do not have a printed "label" on them. Most audio CDs and pretty much all games have printing/paint/ink/whatever fully coating the unreadable side of the CD these days, so it should be less of a problem in the future.
Xander
10-02-2008, 11:57 AM
I never bothered too much with the stored conditions of my games. But you guys makes me worry.
They are currently stored in my basement. No direct sunlight, constant temperature. But there is also a constant moisture level of 50 to 60%, do you guys think it will cause troubles in the long term?
mailman187666
10-02-2008, 12:49 PM
does anybody have a picture of what bit rot looks like on a CD?
JohnnyA
10-02-2008, 12:55 PM
I've seen it on data backup CDs made as little as 3 or 4 years ago.
Ze_ro
10-02-2008, 02:42 PM
I've never had a single problem with bit rot with any pressed optical media. Ever. And I have a pretty ridiculous number of discs, from laserdiscs to UMD to Blu-ray.
To throw out my expirences since I last posted in a bit-rot thread, I've still have yet to see it. The media this consists of are: CDs, LPs, LDs, VHS tapes, and DVDs from various years/generations of manufacturing.
If you have a laserdisc collection and have not seen any instances of laser rot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaserRot), then consider yourself lucky. In the laserdisc world, this is a serious problem, and some research (http://www.lddb.com/laserrot.php) has tracked it down to specific titles and specific manufacturing plants.
I have a copy of Cable Guy that has pretty extensive laser rot, and it shows up as bright speckles of snow and colour throughout the movie... the movie still plays, but as laser rot gets worse and worse, the movie gradually becomes unwatchable. It eventually becomes totally unwatchable when the rot is extensive enough that the ld player can't figure out the timing signals and will refuse to recognize the disc.
--Zero
blue lander
10-03-2008, 11:12 AM
If you have a laserdisc collection and have not seen any instances of laser rot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaserRot), then consider yourself lucky. In the laserdisc world, this is a serious problem, and some research (http://www.lddb.com/laserrot.php) has tracked it down to specific titles and specific manufacturing plants.
From what I read, only a small fraction of Laserdisc suffer from laser rot. People with collections of 200+ discs only have a couple laser rotted discs. And that was when they were buying them new. Poorly pressed laserdiscs seem to go bad shortly after being bought, so most bad ones were thrown out years ago unless they've been sitting on a shelf unused. Supposedly some of the high end Japanese players can compensate on moderately damaged discs, too.
The only rotted laserdisc I have is Highlander, out of about 80 discs.
The Manimal
10-04-2008, 09:21 AM
From what I read, only a small fraction of Laserdisc suffer from laser rot. People with collections of 200+ discs only have a couple laser rotted discs. And that was when they were buying them new. Poorly pressed laserdiscs seem to go bad shortly after being bought, so most bad ones were thrown out years ago unless they've been sitting on a shelf unused. Supposedly some of the high end Japanese players can compensate on moderately damaged discs, too.
The only rotted laserdisc I have is Highlander, out of about 80 discs.
I had way less luck. About 15% rotted.
aaron7
10-04-2008, 10:17 AM
No, the only CD's I have that have rotted are crappy CD-R's from 10 years ago.
All my 80's music and game CD's are fine.
Ze_ro
10-04-2008, 05:11 PM
From what I read, only a small fraction of Laserdisc suffer from laser rot.
The only rotted laserdisc I have is Highlander, out of about 80 discs.
True. And as far as I know, Cable Guy is the only ruined movie I have out of about 50 (Though I still have some I haven't gotten around to watching). However, there are some titles that are especially risky... like Eraser. You've got something like a 20% chance that any copy of Eraser will have laser rot (And I would say that the other 80% are at risk of rotting in the future).
I've been looking to buy The Game (the 1997 Micheal Douglas movie), but it's another movie known for laser rot. However, it was pressed at two separate plants. The ones from Kuraray are likely okay... but good luck identifying mint marks over eBay! Luckily, there's a later DTS version that was only pressed at Kuraray, so I've been trying to keep my eyes open for that copy, but it's less common.
--Zero
Gamejunky
10-07-2008, 11:43 PM
Someone call Mythbusters and get them on the case!
ProgrammingAce
10-08-2008, 12:06 AM
For LaserDiscs, one disk out of my 9 disk set for StarWars is rotted. Unfortunately it's the first disc for Ep IV... There is more static then content.
Xian042
10-08-2008, 08:27 AM
The only rotted laserdisc I have is Highlander, out of about 80 discs.
How could this happen to the greatest movie of all time??? NOOOOOO!!!!!
Ze_ro
10-08-2008, 11:10 PM
For LaserDiscs, one disk out of my 9 disk set for StarWars is rotted. Unfortunately it's the first disc for Ep IV... There is more static then content.
Sadly, this set is also well known for laser rot. Though in this case, I suspect it may be simply because laserdisc collectors are far more likely to actually WATCH these.
In any case, for any other laserdisc collectors, if you're looking for the best version of the unedited trilogy, they seem to be the "faces" releases (the front of the jacket features half of a face on the right hand side... Darth Vader, a Storm Trooper, and Yoda respectively). The packaging looks like total ass compared to the amazing Definitive set, but there are actually some improvements to the movies themselves (I forget the specifics, but stuff like subtitle errors, screen ratio and timing issues and such). These discs are also less prone to laser rot.
They're CLV discs, so less disc changing, but no CAV tricks... personally, I like CLV better.
--Zero
Ze_ro
10-09-2008, 12:49 AM
Double post... nothing to see here.
--Zero
I still have my widescreen trilogy discs I got from Columbia House's laserdisc "club". I was just happy to own them in a format that didn't look like ass and was able to skip around freely.
I have to admit that I dropped the $350 for the LD player in 1990 solely for Scarface.
AlphaGamer
10-14-2008, 08:02 PM
............................
Xtincthed
10-15-2008, 05:52 AM
most of my older CD-R's have deteriorated.. thats pretty much from back when i was in gradeschool so about 7 - 12 years ago
often DVD-R's from only a few years back are faulty.. but thats usually due to bad burner or cheapass dvd's
c2000
10-15-2008, 07:51 AM
Someone call Mythbusters and get them on the case!
Good idea! :)
ProgrammingAce; I haven't had much trouble with my Saturn games really. Hopefully it stays that way (most are PAL or JPN).
Kyle15
10-15-2008, 11:09 AM
I have a Memorex CD-R from a few years ago that has a pinhole in it.
Maybe it's just because it's a Memorex. :/
None of my games or DVD-Rs have any though.
AlphaGamer
10-15-2008, 10:44 PM
............................
Cornelius
10-15-2008, 11:13 PM
Uh oh. I remember when I bought Parappa the Rapper a few years ago (brand new and sealed) that I checked the disc and saw some weird marks on it. There were circles and what looked like factory scratches (the scratches were perfectly done, not like the ones you see from people's misuse). It worked fine though so I didn't really care.
However, I looked at it again today and there's little black circles all around the disc. They are mostly visible when I hold it up to the light. Is this the "disc rot" you guys are talking about? Is it going to deteriorate completely? I'm disappointed because I always figured that this game would be a permanent part of my collection because it's so damn good. To get another brand new copy in this day and age would cost upwards of $70. :bawling:
I made a diagram of exactly what you are talking about in a thread some time ago. I've seen this on brand new discs (I'm guessing you just didn't notice at the time). My assumption is those circles are a reflection of some aspect of the disc's constructions, and not something to worry about. Just my speculation, though.
ah, here's my graphic. I'd have to do more searching than I care to in order to find that thread.
http://home.comcast.net/~evanwink/images/games/cd_circles.jpg