Surgical Strike 32X CD

[swlovinist]

I got a confirmation from one of the lead programmers that this game was indeed released in very limited quantities. Mark another one released by mail order only for the 32X CD

[theChad]

I think Bojay raises a good point, though - the programmers don't necessarily know dick about the release. They work on the game, and then it's off for production but what they hear back may or may not be true. I think someone other than a single programmer (how about the dozens and dozens of customer reports?) would be a more reliable source.

[swlovinist]

So, somone showing the disc that they found not good enough? Some people are impossible

[Bojay1997]

So, somone showing the disc that they found not good enough? Some people are impossible

I'm really not sure why you are being so strange about this whole thing. You make a post in another section of the board, someone disagrees with your conclusion and five minutes later you demand that the title be moved into the released list? That's not how it works here. We discuss things rationally and if there is some kind on consensus, then the title gets moved.

Your conversation with the programmer without some additional evidence from someone who would actually have some part in distribution is not proof of anything. In fact, in looking at the co-producer's website, it looks like the game wasn't even programmed in-house at Sega, but done by an outside team. The programmer would have been at Code Monkeys which is a UK based developer. Is the guy who e-mailed you a former Sega employee or an employee of the outside vendor?

I'm providing you with proof which has been independently verified by literally dozens of other people who were told they would be getting the disc from Sega and who instead got a note and a different game which frankly at the time was worth a lot more money since it was a fully packaged game. Why would Sega create a letter lying about not releasing the game and give away a more expensive game if they didn't have to?

The fact that someone has a copy of the game we all wanted at the time is neat, but it's not any different than someone popping up with final versions of Rent-a-Hero No.1 for the Xbox or Propeller Arena or Halflife for the Dreamcast. The games were finished and ready to be released, but they weren't. They are something more than prototypes, but not quite full retail since they never went out. I know in my collection I have some final betas of a couple of PC games that never ended up being released and they have full disc art and even mock-up boxes which were ready to go. Frankly, as several people pointed out when they saw the picture of the disc, it didn't really look like final art since the font and text was different than other 32X CD games and had some extra verbiage that seemed odd. There was also no packing and the guy who has it never said where he got it from, but he sure didn't get it from Sega.

So, like I said, I have no problem admitting if I'm wrong, but you have to provide some more evidence than just the claims of a programmer in the UK trying to recall what happened 13 years ago now.

[MrSparkle]

anyone mind linking to the original thread i'd like to checkout the picture/pictures.

[DreamTR]

swlovinist, didn't you have an argument SIMILAR to this with some Arcadia game with box/manual that could not be proven that it was released either, so you wanted it OFF the release list?

Programmers don't know if their games were released. They might have been printed, but no one has found one until now?

I had some guy who worked at Nintendo INSIST Sim City came out for NES. Not SNES. Told me I was idiotic because he "worked at Nintendo those years and should know more than I would."

Same thing with Animaniacs Lights Camera Action for DS and GBA in the US. I had numerous conversations with people at Ignition saying it was released in the US, but where is a US version?

[swlovinist]

The game I brought into question was Bingo for the RCA Studio II. Joe and some others saw it with box, but no info surfaced from someone attached to the project onto whether or not it was released in stores, whether it was mail order or else. Nada. Myself and others feel that it was not released, but that is another topic entirely.

This is different in my opionion. The person I talked to was Tony Van, Co Producer of the Game in question. I have been in email with him as of late. Here is what he has said quoting him:

"The reason it’s so limited was at the time, Surgical Strike CD was not a big seller, and even fewer people sent in for the 32X CD with the mail-in offer. I somehow did not get a spool of my own versions of the discs, and I assume Sega ultimately trashed all the other unclaimed copies many years ago.

So, I have no idea how many were printed, but I’d guess the number would be in the less than a thousand for people who actually mailed in the certificate for the 32X version."


Take care,

Tony

With that being said by someone who worked CLOSELY on the project, as well as someone scanning an actual disc of the the game in question(they were mailed out disc only), why wouldnt it be added? To me it is not having the same standards. We can count something seen in person without any proof, but when one surfaces with backing from an actual person close to the project, it does not count? I dont get it. We should have the same standards. If someone that worked on a project said it was released, with at least one copy with documentation, then it should not be questioned. Just my opinion, it just bugs me that there seems to be some games that are counted and that some are not on different standards.

[ProgrammingAce]

If i were right 55% of the time, i could make a million dollars a day on wall street.

That being said, Tony doesn't sound real confident. Even he didn't get a copy of the game. Having worked in this industry for as long as i have, i couldn't tell you with any certanty what's been released and what hasn't. There have been games i could swear up and down were released, that haven't been. I own about 10 complete, packaged, sealed games that never saw a release.

There have been projects i've worked on that i honestly couldn't tell you what happened to them. Sold off to a different developer, locked in development hell, and finally released under a new title with a new engine.

[Bojay1997]

"The reason it’s so limited was at the time, Surgical Strike CD was not a big seller, and even fewer people sent in for the 32X CD with the mail-in offer. I somehow did not get a spool of my own versions of the discs, and I assume Sega ultimately trashed all the other unclaimed copies many years ago.

So, I have no idea how many were printed, but I’d guess the number would be in the less than a thousand for people who actually mailed in the certificate for the 32X version."


Take care,

Tony


How in the heck did you reach the conclusion based on this e-mail that the game was released? He says he didn't get one and that he assumes Sega ultimately trashed all the other copies many years ago. He also has no idea how many were printed. He doesn't state anywhere in this e-mail that he knows for sure any were sent out. He seems to speculate that Sega only shipped to people who sent in the cards. As one of the many people who did send in the cards, I can tell you we didn't get the game, just a card telling us it was cancelled and a copy of Wirehead. This is significantly different than the representation you made in this thread about what he told you.

[DreamTR]

swlovinist: This is even more telling. The guy is guesstimating based on the email you pasted/copied:

"So, I have no idea how many were printed, but I’d guess the number would be in the less than a thousand for people who actually mailed in the certificate for the 32X version."


Less than a thousand even by his guess and only ONE has been found? That's the craziest thing I have ever heard. That's the most proof you need. ONE copy in 13 years, yet 1,000 of them or less out there according to him? Everything I can think of with less/around than 1,000 copies is EASILY obtainable if you have the money these days. 1,000 is a lot. Best guess is that game was from someone who worked at Sega or had it, the guy who owned it gave it away, donated it, etc, and the guy who started the thread originally came up with the game from wherever it ended up.

[swlovinist]

Another quote from Tony Van

"Surgical Strike 32X was released, just not as its own retail package. The game itself was “duel labeled” (as you can see on my site), but only came with the Sega CD disk, with a coupon to send in to get the 32X CD.

Unfortunately, I don’t have any of the 32X CDs (not even one for me… not sure how that happened.) They exist, but are extremely rare."

We are going to disagree on this one. I feel that there is enough evidence to validate it. I have asked him additional information about the letters sent out to people back in the day about this one. To say that all, some or most people involved with a game project being released as being incorrect is a very big and incorrect assumption. Again, we have evidence of at least one popping up with a production lablel on top of what Tony Van says. That to me is enough, even if it wont deter others onto its release. If other information comes up that otherwise PROOVES that it was not released, then I will stand corrected. To me the evidence is leaning towards a very limited release.

[Bojay1997]

Another quote from Tony Van

"Surgical Strike 32X was released, just not as its own retail package. The game itself was “duel labeled” (as you can see on my site), but only came with the Sega CD disk, with a coupon to send in to get the 32X CD.

Unfortunately, I don’t have any of the 32X CDs (not even one for me… not sure how that happened.) They exist, but are extremely rare."

We are going to disagree on this one. I feel that there is enough evidence to validate it. I have asked him additional information about the letters sent out to people back in the day about this one. To say that all, some or most people involved with a game project being released as being incorrect is a very big and incorrect assumption. Again, we have evidence of at least one popping up with a production lablel on top of what Tony Van says. That to me is enough, even if it wont deter others onto its release. If other information comes up that otherwise PROOVES that it was not released, then I will stand corrected. To me the evidence is leaning towards a very limited release.

I guess my skepticism comes from my training and experience as an attorney and someone who has worked in various aspects of the entertainment industry for the last five years. I know I have personally been involved in lots of TV projects that I thought were never released, only to find they were several years after the fact. Similarly, I've done stuff that I was positive had been released and found out later that it never was. People remember things differently, especially some 13 years after an event. This is one guy and while I appreciate the fact that he sent you an e-mail, in my experience, programmers and producers can and do get release info wrong on a frequent basis. There have been many examples cited above. That's why we have a community here, to confirm and share information which the publishers might not have right or not care about.

One other glaring problem with this whole thing is that while Disc 2 of the unreleased 32X CD version references a "Key Disc" much like the Sega CD and 32X CD version of Farenheit, the example of Disc 1 provided by the original poster and confirmed with my own copy of Surgical Strike Sega CD has no reference to the first disc being a "Key Disc" or even Disc 1. I suspect that as such, the example the original poster has is really a pre-release copy with text that wasn't final or perhaps a version of the disc that was intended to be shipped in a dual disc configuration like Farenheit was since it would have been confusing to ask people to insert a "key disc" when the disc included with the game they bought had no such designation. I assume this is something they were planning on fixing before the 32X CD discs were sent out or perhaps it would have been explained in a supplemental instruction sheet.

Tell you what, why don't you tell him that lots of people around the web reported sending in their cards immediately and getting a card saying it wasn't going to be released and a different game back from Sega six months later. Also tell him that you can't find a single person that ever got one from Sega and that only one has ever been found in 13 years. Then ask him how he knows for sure it went out or if this is information based on what he was told or thought at the time. If he has a good answer for this, maybe all of our minds can be changed. Otherwise, the status of Surgical Strike 32X CD remains completed but unreleased.

[swlovinist]

I want to get to the bottom of this like anyone. I will not only try to get an answer from him, but see who I can talk to at sega for futher information. The bottom line is that I am an avid historian and collect video games for the history aspect of it. If it was released, then I will fight for the truth to shown. If it wasnt, then I will try to get some resolution for anyone. Looks like I have my work cut out for me.