Microsoft Hit With Class Action Over RROD (source: kotaku)

[7th lutz]

http://kotaku.com/5064213/microsoft-hit-with-class-action-over-rrod

[theChad]

Loved the first comment.

[Alfador]

Woo Go California! We sue everything here.

[Atari 5200]

I'm not a big fan of microsoft, but haven't they had enough?:deadhorse:

[swlovinist]

As a Xbox and 360 fan, I like their games. But even I have to admit that they totally screwed the pooch on hardware design of the 360. I do feel that they hid how severe the bad design flaw was, only to fix it with a three year get out of free jail card. As time goes on, I think we are going to just see more hardware failures and this will ultimately hurt future business.



On a side note, I am the only one of all my friends who has a day -3 2005 with no probs. I won it, and got it shipped to me three days before launch.

[SpaceHarrier]

Loved the first comment.

LOL LOL Did a DP'er post that?

[Press_Start]

I'm not a big fan of microsoft, but haven't they had enough?:deadhorse:

It happened to Sony with their DRE on the PS2, it had to happen to MS's RROD sooner or later.

I guess paying a billion dollars in extended warranties and repairs doesn't give you a "Get out of lawsuit FREE" card.

[mailman187666]

I remember when the systems were first getting the RRoD. I posted angry messages everywhere because I thought I was one of a few people it was happening to. The Xbox 360 forums over at xbox.com were being flooded with angry people with systems breaking. Everybody thought it was Dead Rising that caused systems to crash at first and everything. The people running the site were deleting people's comments about it and trying to cover it up and everything. "Please contact microsoft support blah blah blah" just so they could tell you that you need to pay them $150 to fix the RRoD. Luckily they did away with the whole charging people for thier mistake, but it was only a matter of time that RRoD would cause a lawsuit. I'm suprised it didn't happen sooner. I'll admit I like the 360s games and online service, I bought a used one for cheap when my last 360 died with no RRoD (so I would have had to pay AGAIN). I think its a fun system to play, but I think it may go down as the most unreliable game system ever made. I don't know of any that are worse than that unless somebody can correct me.

[otoko]

Agreed with milkman. I finally broke down and bought my 360 a few weeks ago. Recently I've had nothing but problems. Fortunately it's not the RROD yet... but it has:

Frozen because it's hooked to live
Frozen because I played it too long(?)
Frozen just because
scratched deep deep rings into my copy of Bioshock.

Fortunately, I was able to save it.

[chicnstu]

scratched deep deep rings into my copy of Bioshock.

My 360 did that to my Oblivion GOTY disc.

[exit]

To think all of this would have been avoided if Microsoft just spent more time fixing the problem and less time trying to cover it up when it first happened. This will probably go no where, the only thing that's going to come from it is another headache.

[swlovinist]

Mailman: Xbox 360 hardware issues are VERY LOOSELY comparable to

The Adam Computer
The Atari 5200
TI 99 4/A

While two are computers and the Atari just had Controller issues, The three above all had big fatal flaws that either kept them from being entirely successful or millions of dollars to fix

The 360 is very successful, but at the cost of 1+ billion dollars in hardware fixes.

They screwed up bigtime, and only time will tell how bad it will affect them

I for one will be more hesitant on getting any MS hardware in the future.

[garagesaleking!!]

omg that first comment is hilarious. Why does everyone hate on microsoft when the fat ps2 systems were pieces of crap. 360 is so much better than ps3, many will argue against that, but just look at the numbers and surveys and game selection.

ps3 was the bomb when blu ray players were 1000. Now they are down to 200 for certain ones and sometimes even come free with a tv.

[CosmicMonkey]

I personally hope M$ get taken to the cleaners with this one.

I understand that the machine is a very complex bit of kit, and as hardware gets more complex, so do potential problems. But iPhones, PlayStation3s, the Wii etc. are all very complex new technology, and they don't have 30%+ failure rates. The Xbox 360 simply wasn't ready to release upon the market, M$ knew this and went ahead anyway. They made this business decision as a company and now they have to live with the consequences.

[atreyu187]

Man I hate M$ now due to this. I have went through eight, that's right I will use the number so we al know (LOL) 8 Xbox 360's since launch day. And to think I waited 27 hours to get screwed by the pooch. Ahhh reminds me of when O sat for 19 hours for a PS2 that broke soon after. Thanks to both of those (and a faulty Wii DVD drive) I quit with all current console makers besides my Gamecube LOL

[modest9797]

Call me a fly hitting a lightbulb but I love my 360 and I only had it repaired once over the course of almost 2 years. Best games in my opinion.

[otoko]

Call me a fly hitting a lightbulb...


Ok, your a fly hitting a lightbulb.

[Poofta!]

It happened to Sony with their DRE on the PS2, it had to happen to MS's RROD sooner or later.

I guess paying a billion dollars in extended warranties and repairs doesn't give you a "Get out of lawsuit FREE" card.

but sony told you to go f yourself. MS is replacing consoles left and right. i think these people are douchebags. the company already agreed to give you new consoles untill they stop breaking! stfu and play some games. jeez.

[Poofta!]

I personally hope M$ get taken to the cleaners with this one.

I understand that the machine is a very complex bit of kit, and as hardware gets more complex, so do potential problems. But iPhones, PlayStation3s, the Wii etc. are all very complex new technology, and they don't have 30%+ failure rates. The Xbox 360 simply wasn't ready to release upon the market, M$ knew this and went ahead anyway. They made this business decision as a company and now they have to live with the consequences.

yes and they paid over a billion dollars for their "mistake". wtf do you want them to do? go out of business because of this (wont happen but still -- wtf you want?!)

[CosmicMonkey]

Like I said, M$ made a business decision, and they have to live with any and all consequences. There's absolutely no reason why the 360 couldn't have gone through the standard product testing cycle and had all the bugs ironed out before release. However, M$ chose not to do this, they knowingly released a fault ridden piece of hardware onto the market.

Why? First to market = [potential for] greater market share = more money. M$ wanted to make teh monies, it's as simple as that. But that's no excuse for releasing a broken bit of hardware on the market.

So it's cost the company over $1Bn so far to fix these problems. Who's fault is that? M$'s obviously.

It's not like the failure rate is small. It's rediculous: over 30% of machines dying. That is absolutely beyond totally unacceptable. That's millions of consoles and a huge amount of customer's money.

Now if only they could be sued for making buggy, unsecure computer Operating Systems we'd be onto a winner.

[carlcarlson]

Lastly, the lawsuit seeks a court order that would force Microsoft to pay off the disenfranchised Xbox 360 owners with all profits that it made from sale of the console. A kind of RROD refund program, if you will.[/COLOR]

Isn't MS taking a loss on each console already? So if these people win they'll get... nothing?

[titanzguard]

Im so sick of this story. I was one of the people who bout the 360 within the first month of it being released and it lasted until early 2007 and finally gave way to a hardware failure. When I contacted Microsoft to get it fixed they charged me $140.00 to fix the console. After putting up a little arguement the guy lowered the price to $100.00. I think it was late last year that Microsoft finally took fault for all of the hardware failures and offered a 3 year warranty and issued refunds for people who paid to repair their console. Well 4 weeks after they announced that deal I received a check for $100.00 - refund for what I paid to get it fixed.
The only real problem I have with this issue is Microsoft is offering to fix your console for free but people are not happy with that. They want to buy something, use it for 3 years, and then receive a refund. I know a lot of people hate Microsoft and think they are a monopoly but if Microsoft loses this lawsuit and it costs them too much in damages they may decided to pull out of the console market and that would be a devastating lose for the gaming industry. I just want to say I dont condone what they did but as long as they are offering to fix your console for free and it is not costing you anything what is the problem? If an electronic device fails after 3 years then that is a change you take. I work in the IT field and I see DELL PC's fail after 1, 2, 3 and yes 4 years. If we do not have support from Dell we are stuck buying a new PC. Thats the risk you take with an electronic device. Thats how I feel about this. I know I will probably get flamed for replying and defending the 360 but I would hate to see them pull out of the console market because of this. They are already taking loses on every console they sell. Just my personal opinion.

[Fuyukaze]

California? Figures, those nut jobs would sue anything. MS was wrong to release the 360 as they did but as they've offered 3 years free replacement for RRoD, that's better then Sony ever did for either the PS1 or PS2 and no one sued them over it.

[otoko]

Wait... Didn't this get posted already a few weeks ago? http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123313

[DKTheArcadeRat]

...all I have to say is Californians need to stop being such little crybabies about EVERYTHING. They are always the first to sue over something, no matter what it is. We get it. You have no idea how to make money the old fashioned way of hard work, so you have to hide behind your winnings from rediculous lawsuits. I can't wait for there to be a major earthquake and separate California from the United States and then we can get rid of that god forsaken place.

[BHvrd]

I remember the days when everyone was glad when microsoft got bit in their greedy underhanded half ass.

Oh how times have changed.

I still don't see what is so great about Xbox Live and that seems to be what has grown so much respect for them. Personally the thing is a portal for way too much control over the user.

Everyone loves big ole master control program now I guess.

[GrandAmChandler]

Threads merged!

-GAC-

[Rob2600]

California? Figures, those nut jobs would sue anything. MS was wrong to release the 360 as they did but as they've offered 3 years free replacement for RRoD

So you think a home video game console should only last three years? What happens after that when it breaks? Your 360 game library will be useless.

[titanzguard]

Seriously... If it breaks you can purchase a XBox 360 for 199.99 right now. By the time your 3 year warranty runs up it will be closer to 99.99-129.99.

I am sorry but you are lucky getting a 3 year warranty that you do not have to pay for. Most companies only offer a 90 day warranty and if your lucky you might get 1 year. No one said it will only last 3 years. Most electronics today are not built to last. Why expect anything different from your console?

[Rob2600]

Seriously... If it breaks you can purchase a XBox 360 for 199.99 right now. By the time your 3 year warranty runs up it will be closer to 99.99-129.99.

My Atari 2600, SNES, N64, GBA, and my brother's GameCube still work great. Who wants to pay $129 every few years? Xbox 360 owners, I guess.


you are lucky getting a 3 year warranty that you do not have to pay for. Most companies only offer a 90 day warranty

True, but most products last far more than three years. Again, my Atari 2600, SNES, N64, GBA, and my brother's GameCube still work great. My twenty-eight year old JVC stereo receiver, nine year old Panasonic TV, eight year old JVC DVD player, six year old Dell computer, and five year old Creative Nomad Zen Xtra still work great, too.


No one said it will only last 3 years.

You're right...it'll probably only last two! :)

[Skelix]

My Xbox 360's break until ultimately they are 1-2 weeks outside of warranty. I've gone through 4-5 retails so far and various refurbished ones (maybe 6-8 refurbished?).

Good news is they don't seem to break on RROD anymore, now it's more of the DVD drives are shit. (but that's only a 1 yr warranty) (latest an elite 1 yr 4 days, I was offered to get it fixed for $100 a recommended $30ish warranty) This is when they changed prices to $200. I just bought a new one, oh well.

Just doing my part to make the rich richer and keep the economy flowing...

[chicnstu]

Just to make sure there is no-one here that wants to pay $200 every two years: Does everyone here agree that products should be made durable?

Because, it doesn't make sense to have a console generation of 5 years and a console that lasts 2.

I buy a console to play games, not play games to buy the console.

"(people) do not play with the game machine itself. They play with the software,
and they are forced to purchase a game machine in order to use the software." -- Hiroshi Yamauchi

[alxbly]

Just to make sure there is no-one here that wants to pay $200 every two years: Does everyone here agree that products should be made durable?

Does this even need to be asked? No-one wants to buy hardware that breaks. Although pretty much all of the major console makers have been guilty of selling us unreliable hardware at some point (Sony's PS2 disc read errors, the N64's control stick wear and the Virtual Boy's portable aspirations but easily broken internal mirrors all spring to mind), the 360 seems to be much worse than anything before. I'm totally sold on the 360's games (my Wii and PS3 hardly get used) but the hardware makes me worry. That said, I've had my 360 for over a year and a half with no problems.

Maybe I'll regret saying that...

[megasdkirby]

Does this even need to be asked? No-one wants to buy hardware that breaks.

Say that to those who justify the warranty as a "just in case" scenario. In other words, plenty of people justify the "breaking down" of the 360 with "it has three year warranty for the RROD, so it's ok".

In my opinion, it's not ok. I don't buy something to replace it two years later. I buy something that will last me a very LONG time.

[alxbly]

Say that to those who justify the warranty as a "just in case" scenario. In other words, plenty of people justify the "breaking down" of the 360 with "it has three year warranty for the RROD, so it's ok".

In my opinion, it's not ok. I don't buy something to replace it two years later. I buy something that will last me a very LONG time.

That's not always easy to predict. I've known people with consoles that have died in a relatively short period of time; a few Gamecubes, a Dreamcast... consoles that I wouldn't say had reliability problems but they still ended up with turkeys. Turkeys with no warranty.

Let's face it, the RROD is the most commonly known fault for the 360 and owners will feel relieved that there's an extended warranty in place in case that should happen. I don't think anyone can justify the breaking down of a console in a short period of time but it's nice to know that it's covered in that case. And let's face it, none of the other console manufacturers offer such a long warranty on their consoles.

But, given the 360's track record, that was something that Microsoft perhaps needed to implement before consumers completely lost confidence in their product. Personally I think they're still feeling the fallout from that in terms of consoles being sold, etc. In short, more people would own Xbox 360's if consumers had more confidence in the hardware. I hope Microsoft can learn from that.

[DeputyMoniker]

but sony told you to go f yourself. MS is replacing consoles left and right. i think these people are douchebags. the company already agreed to give you new consoles untill they stop breaking! stfu and play some games. jeez.

I am afraid to buy a 360 because I don't think I will be able to enjoy my games. 12 hours into a game I'm sweating my ass off thinking, "If this breaks now, I'm going to lose it."
I just don't want that kind of worry. It sucks because I want a 360...but I'll have to hold out for a really good deal on one. I still haven't adopted a current-gen system yet. I don't have an HDTV and too few games are grabbing my interest, so I'll keep waiting for better PS3 software. The 360 isn't reliable enough...I don't want to buy it, play it for a while, spend two weeks without a console while they fix it, play it some more, send it back again and have nothing to play...screw that. The Wii doesn't have enough software that has grabbed my interest so I'm waiting for a great deal on that one too. This generation just isn't what I love about gaming. Maybe I'll change my mind when I actually have a console in my house.

[dairugger]

the waiting sucks! by that i mean when your really into a game & your 360 dies. happend to me twice. last year i was playing blue dragon & spent hours leveling my team only to hear this horrible noise from my 360, sounded like when you manually force the cd mechanism along the path, kinda like a grinding- then bam! RROD! took 3 weeks for that to be repaired.

same thing happend with GOW, happily playing when it stuttered, then a grinding noise, then RROD!

now i have multiple systems, and i always keep them properly ventilated, on a sturdy open enterainment center (no doors or back) i dust them regurally, even using the vamcume cleaner to clean any dust or errant hair they might accumilate. i dont use a power strip, and the power brick is well ventilated. i dont change its position either. but ive had 2 die! none of my other systems have died. I dont think its the consumer thats at fault on this, or that microsft giving a 3 year warranty makes it right! and to people saying it must be the consumer or that were at fault not microsft, wait till it happens to you-and it will. nothings worse when your playing a game and dread the system dying before you can save, or while your saving!

[DeputyMoniker]

the waiting sucks! by that i mean when your really into a game & your 360 dies. happend to me twice. last year i was playing blue dragon & spent hours leveling my team only to hear this horrible noise from my 360, sounded like when you manually force the cd mechanism along the path, kinda like a grinding- then bam! RROD! took 3 weeks for that to be repaired.

same thing happend with GOW, happily playing when it stuttered, then a grinding noise, then RROD!

now i have multiple systems, and i always keep them properly ventilated, on a sturdy open enterainment center (no doors or back) i dust them regurally, even using the vamcume cleaner to clean any dust or errant hair they might accumilate. i dont use a power strip, and the power brick is well ventilated. i dont change its position either. but ive had 2 die! none of my other systems have died. I dont think its the consumer thats at fault on this, or that microsft giving a 3 year warranty makes it right! and to people saying it must be the consumer or that were at fault not microsft, wait till it happens to you-and it will. nothings worse when your playing a game and dread the system dying before you can save, or while your saving!

Careful with that vacuum. If you're sucking air through the 360 cooling fans you can wear them out.

[Cornelius]

does the 3-yr 360 warranty cover everything, or just this particularly common fault?

I'm worried about what the used xbox 360 market will be like, since I've bought pretty much all of my consoles used. I just don't think I'll have the confidence in it to pick one up. Guess I'll have to buy new someday when they go on clearance.

[otoko]

I never trust a used 360.

I bought mine new very recently and I've had problems with it already.

[Nick]

...all I have to say is Californians need to stop being such little crybabies about EVERYTHING. They are always the first to sue over something, no matter what it is. We get it. You have no idea how to make money the old fashioned way of hard work, so you have to hide behind your winnings from rediculous lawsuits. I can't wait for there to be a major earthquake and separate California from the United States and then we can get rid of that god forsaken place.

Jeez..thats pretty screwed up. You really shouldn't say things that arrogant and idiotic...I promise you the majority of people that live here work just as hard as the rest of the United States. Go somewhere else and say fucked up bullshit because we just talk about video games and stuff here.

[DeputyMoniker]

Jeez..thats pretty screwed up. You really shouldn't say things that arrogant and idiotic...I promise you the majority of people that live here work just as hard as the rest of the United States. Go somewhere else say fucked up bullshit because we just talk about video games and stuff here.

He's emo. He probably lives in California and that was his "I hate my life" rant.

[carlcarlson]

does the 3-yr 360 warranty cover everything, or just this particularly common fault?

I'm worried about what the used xbox 360 market will be like, since I've bought pretty much all of my consoles used. I just don't think I'll have the confidence in it to pick one up. Guess I'll have to buy new someday when they go on clearance.

The 3-year only covers the RRoD, though there are ways around that. Shady ways, but ways nonetheless. For what it's worth I bought my system used and haven't had any problems. I've also resold about fifteen 360s and they've all been fine.

The people that aren't getting a 360 because of hardware issues kind of confuse me. I mean I understand the trepidation because these things DO die, but that's what the warranty is for. The FREE warranty. You're missing out on so many good games. It's a nuisance to have to replace your system, but that's all it is. Are you really going to wait until they've perfected the hardware, because honestly, that may never happen. It's been almost three years already, how much longer are you going to deny yourself all of this good gaming?

Ha, that's my dramatic plea. But seriously, don't let the hardware problems get in your way. If the games don't interest you or you're more an old-school guy then fine, skip the 360, but don't let a two-week wait be your only reason.

[DKTheArcadeRat]

He's emo. He probably lives in California and that was his "I hate my life" rant.

Nope. I live clear on the other side of the United States in what I would say is an area where I see a lot of true hard work to make not so much money(farming areas literally 5 seconds down the road).

ANYWAY.

All I ever see or hear about California is either regarding some pointless BS or yet another frivolous lawsuit. Have you ever checked to see how many things have warnings that state things such as known to cause/proven to cause X in CALIFORNIA? It's because there are obviously wayyyyyyyy too many crybabies in California that need to suck it up and take things for what they are.

Foods high in fat and calories are going to make you gain weight. Lead based things might just cause disease. Xbox 360 systems have overheating issues(which have been previously addressed many, many times). There are certain things that should be common knowledge by now and accepted as such. But no. They can't just accept things for what they are. Prove me wrong. I implore you.

[Lothars]

Nope. I live clear on the other side of the United States in what I would say is an area where I see a lot of true hard work to make not so much money(farming areas literally 5 seconds down the road).

ANYWAY.

All I ever see or hear about California is either regarding some pointless BS or yet another frivolous lawsuit. Have you ever checked to see how many things have warnings that state things such as known to cause/proven to cause X in CALIFORNIA? It's because there are obviously wayyyyyyyy too many crybabies in California that need to suck it up and take things for what they are.

Foods high in fat and calories are going to make you gain weight. Lead based things might just cause disease. Xbox 360 systems have overheating issues(which have been previously addressed many, many times). There are certain things that should be common knowledge by now and accepted as such. But no. They can't just accept things for what they are. Prove me wrong. I implore you.

Well your acting like an idiot but that's just the beginning of it

To say that we have to just sit by and take the 360 rrod is bullshit.

I can't believe you think it's alright that we accept that but whatever, I really wish that Microsoft would be hit by lawsuits from all over for this problem because the 3 year warrenty is not enough.

[TheDomesticInstitution]

The people that aren't getting a 360 because of hardware issues kind of confuse me.


Not that my opinion matters at this point, because this issue has been beat to death. But... 1st off, this is a classic gaming website. Right? A site dedicated to systems that are no longer current, and no longer manufactured... Right? A lot of the members here amass large collections of games after a system is dead.

Microsoft has been accused of having a 360 failure rate north of 50%. That means over 1 in 2 will fail, if the reports are correct. I understand that Microsoft gives one a 3 year warranty now days against the RROD. But who knows if any of these warranty repairs correct the problem? So after the 3 years are up then what? Buy a new console? What if there's a new generation of xbox out, and you can't buy a new one? What about that library you've amassed? I guess you could try to find one used... but with a 1 in 2 failure rate, it could be a real bitch finding a working one. I didn't start buying most of my original xbox games until after the system was dead. While the 3 year warranty works for 70% of the gamers out there, who ditch the system once a new one comes out... it isn't acceptable for some of the collectors and gamers that reside here. We want to be able to enjoy a system well into the future, and it seems the 360 is gonna be a very tough system to collect for down the road. If only because it'll be a challenge to find a good console.

I would totally jump on a 360 if I was assured that the RROD was a fixed issue. But until I hear a good solid report that the repaired consoles aren't still dying after they've been repaired... then fuck Microsoft. A 50% failure rate is not acceptable in any consumer electronic device. I don't care how good the games are. I'll stick with the PS3 and the Wii... and my original xbox. Until Microsoft has fixed the issue they will not get my money. What other voice does a consumer have than not spending their money? I understand that for some of you guys, the games trump hardware failures. Awesome. Is it so hard for you to understand, that it's my right as a consumer to not buy every shitty product thats thrown at me?

Anyway neither side is gonna see eye to eye, so what does it matter.

[Press_Start]

The people that aren't getting a 360 because of hardware issues kind of confuse me. I mean I understand the trepidation because these things DO die, but that's what the warranty is for. The FREE warranty. You're missing out on so many good games. It's a nuisance to have to replace your system, but that's all it is. Are you really going to wait until they've perfected the hardware, because honestly, that may never happen. It's been almost three years already, how much longer are you going to deny yourself all of this good gaming?

Whenever I buy any electronic (game systems, appliances, laptops, etc.) my expectation is that 10 years from now, it'll work just the same as the day it came out of the box. Gaming is my escape from the pressures of day-to-day work and life. The last thing I need is worrying whether my game console is going to blow up in my face every time I press 'ON'. I'm sorry--but the 360 lacks what the Wii and PS3 provide plenty of...peace of mind.


All I ever see or hear about California is either regarding some pointless BS or yet another frivolous lawsuit. Have you ever checked to see how many things have warnings that state things such as known to cause/proven to cause X in CALIFORNIA? It's because there are obviously wayyyyyyyy too many crybabies in California that need to suck it up and take things for what they are.

Dude, that's not cool. Labeling people based on what a select few did is stereotyping and we are above all that. How would you feel if someone called the people in your area psychotic skinheads cause he/she read numerous reports of hate crimes near your hometown?

[Rob2600]

this is a classic gaming website.

We want to be able to enjoy a system well into the future, and it seems the 360 is gonna be a very tough system to collect for down the road. If only because it'll be a challenge to find a good console.

A 50% failure rate is not acceptable in any consumer electronic device. I don't care how good the games are. I'll stick with the PS3 and the Wii... and my original xbox. Until Microsoft has fixed the issue they will not get my money. What other voice does a consumer have than not spending their money?


Whenever I buy any electronic (game systems, appliances, laptops, etc.) my expectation is that 10 years from now, it'll work just the same as the day it came out of the box.

100% correct.

[carlcarlson]

(paraphrase) What happens to your 360 collection 10 years down the road if you can't find a working system?(/paraphrase)

That's a valid point and I agree, we could all be screwed. Honestly I don't really worry to much about it, though, because I get all my games for free (no, not THAT way), so it's not like this is an investment. I'm buying them to play NOW, and that I do and I love every minute. From a collector standpoint, yes, we could have a problem. From a players standpoint this is the most fun I've had with a system in a looooooong time.


Gaming is my escape from the pressures of day-to-day work and life. The last thing I need is worrying whether my game console is going to blow up in my face every time I press 'ON'. I'm sorry--but the 360 lacks what the Wii and PS3 provide plenty of...peace of mind.

That's a bit extreme I'd say, a bit "tinfoil hat". If the 360 really worries you that much though then you really should stear clear. If you're looking for peace of mind buy a plant, if you're looking for fun gaming buy a 360 (a joke, I know what you're getting at).

[koster]

All I ever see or hear about California is either regarding some pointless BS or yet another frivolous lawsuit. Have you ever checked to see how many things have warnings that state things such as known to cause/proven to cause X in CALIFORNIA? It's because there are obviously wayyyyyyyy too many crybabies in California that need to suck it up and take things for what they are.

Dude, that's not cool. Labeling people based on what a select few did is stereotyping and we are above all that. How would you feel if someone called the people in your area psychotic skinheads cause he/she read numerous reports of hate crimes near your hometown?
Be careful what you say - otherwise you might find yourself 'sleeping with the fishes'. Not that all people from New Jersey are mobsters (another stereotype, right?)... LOL

[Press_Start]

That's a bit extreme I'd say, a bit "tinfoil hat". If the 360 really worries you that much though then you really should stear clear. If you're looking for peace of mind buy a plant, if you're looking for fun gaming buy a 360 (a joke, I know what you're getting at).

Didn't mean it would "blow up" literally. LOL

But, yeah, the 360 is low on my wanted list. Eventually, I will get one for myself, only when MS finally worked out the bugs and clean up the mess they made. Could take a long while...oh well, more time with my Wii. :D

[Nophix]

Im so sick of this story. I was one of the people who bout the 360 within the first month of it being released and it lasted until early 2007 and finally gave way to a hardware failure. When I contacted Microsoft to get it fixed they charged me $140.00 to fix the console. After putting up a little arguement the guy lowered the price to $100.00. I think it was late last year that Microsoft finally took fault for all of the hardware failures and offered a 3 year warranty and issued refunds for people who paid to repair their console. Well 4 weeks after they announced that deal I received a check for $100.00 - refund for what I paid to get it fixed.
The only real problem I have with this issue is Microsoft is offering to fix your console for free but people are not happy with that. They want to buy something, use it for 3 years, and then receive a refund. I know a lot of people hate Microsoft and think they are a monopoly but if Microsoft loses this lawsuit and it costs them too much in damages they may decided to pull out of the console market and that would be a devastating lose for the gaming industry. I just want to say I dont condone what they did but as long as they are offering to fix your console for free and it is not costing you anything what is the problem? If an electronic device fails after 3 years then that is a change you take. I work in the IT field and I see DELL PC's fail after 1, 2, 3 and yes 4 years. If we do not have support from Dell we are stuck buying a new PC. Thats the risk you take with an electronic device. Thats how I feel about this. I know I will probably get flamed for replying and defending the 360 but I would hate to see them pull out of the console market because of this. They are already taking loses on every console they sell. Just my personal opinion.


Man, I can't say I could agree with you more! As long as MS is covering the repairs, I'm happy. If it's a continued problem with a specific console, be sure to track it and replace the system. I don't think people realize this, but most systems are repaired and sent back. They aren't getting new systems.

I also work in IT, and can say that on the customer service standpoint(aside from Xbox Live), MS has the best. I honestly HATE calling Dell! HP or Lenovo? Even worse! MS is usually very helpful.

One other thing to add to this would be a look at the stats. The Xbox 360 has more market penetration than any other system, by a huge margin. So, lets say they have a failure rate of 20%, and the PS3 has 15%.

However, the 360 has sold, we'll say, 10 million units, while the PS3 has sold 2 million. Not accurate, just using these number for math examples.

That would mean that the 360 has approx. 2 million faulty units. That's more than the PS3 in our fictional world has SOLD, so yes, it will make it look like they fail a lot more than they actually do.

This same thing happened with the newer Ford trucks. I was seeing them more regualrly for trans issues than the Chevy at a rate of about 2 to 1. Then I found out they were outselling the Chevy at a rate of 2-2.5 to 1.

[Rob2600]

As long as MS is covering the repairs, I'm happy.

Yes, Microsoft is covering the repairs, but only for three years. After that, once your Xbox 360 breaks again, you'll have to pay for another one...and that one will break, too. The cycle will never end.

If you only plan on playing your Xbox 360 for three years, then you're fine. If, like many retro gamers, you plan on playing your Xbox 360 for twenty years, you're out of luck. :(


look at the stats. The Xbox 360 has more market penetration than any other system, by a huge margin.

It does? In North America, roughly 16 million Wii consoles have been sold vs. roughly 12 million Xbox 360 consoles (vs. roughly 6 million PlayStation 3 consoles).


So, lets say they have a failure rate of 20%, and the PS3 has 15%.

However, the 360 has sold, we'll say, 10 million units, while the PS3 has sold 2 million. Not accurate, just using these number for math examples.

That would mean that the 360 has approx. 2 million faulty units. That's more than the PS3 in our fictional world has SOLD, so yes, it will make it look like they fail a lot more than they actually do.

Except the Xbox 360's failure rate has been reported as 30% to 50%. That means in North America, roughly 3.6 million to 6 million Xbox 360 consoles (out of 12 million) have failed. Microsoft even knew about this problem prior to launch and released the 360 anyway.

What percentage of PlayStation 3 consoles have failed? What percentage of Wii consoles have failed? 1%? Maybe 2%?

[carlcarlson]

What percentage of Wii consoles have failed? 1%? Maybe 2%?

Ironically that's also the percentage of Wii titles that are worth playing. HA! :)

Anyway, the failure rate has also been reported to be 16%-33% That's still bad, but not nearly the 50% a few people in this thread have quoted. Nobody knows the true number but if we average all the reports it's probably around 30%. That means that your system isn't guaranteed to fail despite what many of you are saying.

[Rob2600]

the failure rate has also been reported to be 16%-33%

Regarding the 16% figure:

"In February 2008 an examination of 1,040 Xbox 360s by SquareTrade found a 16.4% failure rate... However, SquareTrade also admits that their estimates are likely much lower than reality... the consoles were only tracked for 6-10 months, and in the longer term, many more consoles will have failed. This ties in with most other sources claiming 30%-40% failure rates."

Wikipedia - Xbox 360 technical problems (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360_technical_problems)


That's still bad, but not nearly the 50% a few people in this thread have quoted. Nobody knows the true number but if we average all the reports it's probably around 30%. That means that your system isn't guaranteed to fail despite what many of you are saying.

You're right, 30% seems more realistic...but that still means roughly one out of three Xbox 360 consoles will fail.

Again, Microsoft will repair them for three years, but what about people who want to play their 360s ten years from now? 30% of them won't be able to without paying for a replacement, and there's a 30% chance that the replacement will fail, too.

[carlcarlson]

That's assuming that the newer boards still suffer from the 30% failure rate, which I don't believe to be the case. As far as I know the Zephyr board has eliminated a huge percentage of RRoD. Faulty disc drives... maybe not so much.

[Rob2600]

That's assuming that the newer boards still suffer from the 30% failure rate, which I don't believe to be the case. As far as I know the Zephyr board has eliminated a huge percentage of RRoD. Faulty disc drives... maybe not so much.

Gizmodo - New Xbox 360 Failure Rates Still Around 10 Percent? (http://gizmodo.com/346891/new-xbox-360-failure-rates-still-around-10-percent)

"estimated failure rates on new, smaller, and cooler-chipped Xbox 360s seem to still be around 10%"


Much better, but still unacceptably high...if it's true. According to Microsoft, the typical failure rate for most consumer electronics is 3% to 5%. (The PlayStation 3 and Wii are lower than that.)

[alxbly]

If, like many retro gamers, you plan on playing your Xbox 360 for twenty years, you're out of luck. :(

You can pretty much apply that to all disc based systems (including CD players and DVD players); it's likely that the majority of them will die within twenty years, probably less than that. I think most people already know this.

That's not to say that I think the failure rate in 360's is acceptable, but I'm not gonna jump to the conclusion that they'll all only last 3 years either.

[DeputyMoniker]

How does the warranty work? Do you have to have the receipt? Do you have to be the original owner? Do they ask you loaded questions? (Like when Sony would ask if you ever used your PS2 in its vertical position.) Would they say "Sorry but we repaired your system for a different owner three months ago."

[theChad]

You just enter your serial number to add the system to your Windows Live ID on xbox.com and they will determine if it's still under warranty. Nothing more than the serial number though.

[DeputyMoniker]

You just enter your serial number to add the system to your Windows Live ID on xbox.com and they will determine if it's still under warranty. Nothing more than the serial number though.

You don't have to call? They send you a coffin just like that?

[theChad]

Yeah, I've had to do it thrice now so I'm getting good at it.

[DeputyMoniker]

Yeah, I've had to do it thrice now so I'm getting good at it.

I figured they would want to talk to you so they could ask if you tried (such and such).
What about the scratched disks people talk about. Does MS replace them?

[theChad]

That's all automated through the online repair service now. They ask what color light is on the power supply and a few other things to try to narrow the problem down and give a few suggestions before it finally gets to the shipping end of things.

No experience with the disc thing though.