Anyone Else think the 360/PS3/Wii Era is a bust???

[erik]

There is one thing that has been on my mind the last year or so. It is the fact that the current generation of systems, though selling well, are seriously lacking in must-have games. The PS1 and PS2 era were incredible with new franchises, types of gameplay and quality games coming out every month. As for the PS3, there are really only one or two exclusive games worth playing. I am not just talking about the PS3 though - the Xbox 360 and Wii seem to only get great games every 6 months as well, if even that. The only game I am really looking forward to is Resident Evil 5..........which comes out in...........5 months!!! My point is that many of our current releases are so dummied down for the 'lowest common denominator' in order to appeal to a more mainstream audience. Does anybody else think this way? Are hardcore gamers like us becoming an endangered species?? Let me know your opinions are...

[ProgrammingAce]

lolwut?

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Negative.

If you can't find games to suit your taste in this day and age ... you might not be looking hard enough and/or trying enough new properties.

[heybtbm]

Not even close. This is the best console generation since the 16-bit days IMO. I'd say the "problem" is the exact opposite of what you're saying. There's too many good games. Too little time.

[SpaceHarrier]

I feel certain franchise updates haven't innovated in the way that I would have liked, but others have blown my mind.

[swlovinist]

Negative.

If you can't find games to suit your taste in this day and age ... you might not be looking hard enough and/or trying enough new properties.

Retro, Puzzle, Classic Shooter, Shooter, Survival Horror, Casual, Hardcore are all represented in some way shape and form on the Wii, 360, and PS3.


Heck, even if you like pure retro, games like Geometry Wars and Pac Man CE are pretty sweet.

[Overbite]

Bullshit, the 360 has a bunch of must have games. Ps3 and Wii not so much.

Though I agree that the ps1/ps2 had a lot more must haves.

[Sudo]

Hell no. There are a lot of great games I've played on both the PS3 and 360 so far, and to a much lesser extent the Wii.

[Poofta!]

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/uploads/18240/lolwut.jpg

i disagree completely, and have little pity for you for not enjoying some of these awesome titles. i too agree that this generation is probably the best since the 16/32bit golden years (89 to like 97).
of course a lot (most) of todays games depend heavily on the graphical wow factor, so maybe that 24" crt is due for an upgrade. nevertheless they are all married to excellent gameplay.

[s1lence]

Howz about no............

[parallaxscroll]

Not a complete bust, but in SOME ways, yes. Though probably not what everyone else is thinking.

I am most disappointed in PS3 and Xbox 360. Even though both consoles are much more powerful than Wii, they disappointed me as far as what I believed they would be capable of back in 2002,2003,2004 and early 2005 before the 360 launched. I was thinking that Xbox2 & PS3 would be capable of much better graphics than what turned out to be. Everyone focuses on High Definition. They do HD but not a heck of alot beyond last-gen Xbox1 graphics, in HD. Yes the 360/PS3 offer better graphics than PS2/Xbox1, but not a true generational leap, like we saw from PS1/N64 to PS2/GCN/Xbox1. Framerates are also a huge disappointment.

So while the Wii is clearly last-gen in terms of CPU & GPU power, and outputs in standard definition, it offers something clearly more interesting than 360/PS3 do. The consumer agrees. Wii is outselling 360 & PS3 combined. By the time October NPD comes out, Wii will have surpassed the total LTD install bases of both HD consoles.


I hope that next gen (XB3, Wii HD, PS4) offer both a large leap in gameplay/control/interface and visual prowess.

[dylan0228]

I can`t believe this is even a topic! I think the graphical difference from the last gen is leaps & bounds better. And if you can`t find a game that interests you on today`s systems, you need to find a new hobby. There is an abundance of titles that gravitate to genres we have never seen before. Plenty of options for the hardcore & casual gamer!

[Nebagram]

I can see why you might think the 7th gen is a bust- very few new franchises, few new gameplay mecahnics not seen in the previous gens, no absolute pants-shittingly jaw-droppingly awesome and completely brand new games (think Mario 64, OoT, FFVII for examples)... but I still have to disagree. I see this gen as taking what exists and seeing how it can improved, tweaked, stretched, altered to give different gameplay experiences... and for the most part, it's succeeding. Bioshock is the first example that springs to mind, closely followed by Mario Galaxy. And that's before we get to the whole 'online for all' argument...

[Damaramu]

This thread is a bust.

Seriously though. As said before, if you can't find SOMETHING that appeals to you, I recommend you sell your PS3/Wii/360 and games and find a new hobby.

Like knitting...

[Bojay1997]

I agree on both the technical front and on the variety front. The reality is that the difference between the 16 bit and the PSOne/Saturn, and then the leap from that generation to the PS2/Xbox were much more significant in scope than the leap from the last generation to the 360 and PS3. The fact is, we are now in a situation where it takes hundreds of people to make games with large teams of graphics and animators, sound people and people that focus on design. Even with these massive teams, there is only so much time and money you can invest in a game and until computers can program themselves, truly massive games with CGI style graphics like we have been promised all along are probably not going to happen. Truthfully, there are quite a few Xbox 360 games that could have run pretty well on the Xbox and while this difference might grow over time, we are already mid-way through this console cycle and not a whole lot has changed.

On the variety front, I agree as well. With higher budgets come bigger financial risks and more conservative choices. While there are some bright spots out there, there is also a lot of very derivative content. For example, I finally played Dead Space today and after two hours, I don't really see the difference between it and Dreamcast games like Blue Stinger or Carrier. It's basically the same concept and play mechanics with similar are design.

Yes, there are a few obscure Japanese titles and Wiiware or Xbox Live Marketplace games that pop-up now and then, but there was a time when the American software development industry was creating literally thousands of new IPs a year. Nowadays, if you take out all the sequels and derivative junk, you're lucky to see a couple of dozen innovative games. As a collector and a hardcore gamer, that's just not enough for me and I agree that something has to change to keep my interest in this generation.

[FlufflePuff]

Couldn't disagree more. The gen has tons of great games. There are continuations of existing series (MGS4, GTA4, CoD4...too many 4s) and great new franchises (Bioshock, Gears of War, Resistance, Dead Space). Combine that with full online play for all three systems and the excellent DLC (Mega Man 9, Braid, Etc) and you have something for everyone. I would say that we are judging the prior generations by their whole lifespan versus the 2-3 years of this generations lifespan. Even if you haven't found something yet, keep looking and I'm sure you'll find your niche.

[The 1 2 P]

if you can't find SOMETHING that appeals to you, I recommend you sell your PS3/Wii/360 and games and find a new hobby.

Like knitting...

QFT, although knitting(like gaming) requires skill, so I'd suggest he tackles the intensity-laden hobby of "watching paint dry"ROFL

[erik]

I am the original poster and what I am trying to say is that this generation of consoles simply has nowhere near as many good games as the PS1/PS2 eras. That is the main reason why I am dissapointed. Yes, I do agree that there are some awesome games like Bioshock, Mario Galaxy, Gears of War, Orange Box, and Smash Bros, and I love them to death. This era seems to mirror the N64 lifespan - some awesome games, but not enough of them and often paced 6 months apart. I am 34 years old, so maybe I am just growing out of the hobby. Anyone else out there feel the same way?

[chicnstu]

I'm pretty disappointed with this generation so far. Last generation it felt like there was more variety. This generation, many of the highly rated games are FPS or TPS, I'm not very interested in those. I enjoy Ratchet and Clank, Resident Evil, and Lost Planet but that's about it when it comes to a game where I get to shoot stuff.

I'm like RPGs, action RPGs, platform, things like that, and there just isn't much of that this generation, except on DS and PSP.

So far this generation I have found only 7 games I've loved (in order of favorite to least favorite):

Mario Galaxy
Devil May Cry 4
Oblivion
Lost Planet
Blue Dragon
Zelda: Twilight Princess
Smash Bros.

But I still keep finding games for PS2 that I love (not many are new releases obviously).

I'm hoping that I will like Fallout 3, Fable 2, and Animal Crossing and luckily there are a few games coming out next year that I'm excited for.

[erik]

I agree on both the technical front and on the variety front. The reality is that the difference between the 16 bit and the PSOne/Saturn, and then the leap from that generation to the PS2/Xbox were much more significant in scope than the leap from the last generation to the 360 and PS3. The fact is, we are now in a situation where it takes hundreds of people to make games with large teams of graphics and animators, sound people and people that focus on design. Even with these massive teams, there is only so much time and money you can invest in a game and until computers can program themselves, truly massive games with CGI style graphics like we have been promised all along are probably not going to happen. Truthfully, there are quite a few Xbox 360 games that could have run pretty well on the Xbox and while this difference might grow over time, we are already mid-way through this console cycle and not a whole lot has changed.

On the variety front, I agree as well. With higher budgets come bigger financial risks and more conservative choices. While there are some bright spots out there, there is also a lot of very derivative content. For example, I finally played Dead Space today and after two hours, I don't really see the difference between it and Dreamcast games like Blue Stinger or Carrier. It's basically the same concept and play mechanics with similar are design.

Yes, there are a few obscure Japanese titles and Wiiware or Xbox Live Marketplace games that pop-up now and then, but there was a time when the American software development industry was creating literally thousands of new IPs a year. Nowadays, if you take out all the sequels and derivative junk, you're lucky to see a couple of dozen innovative games. As a collector and a hardcore gamer, that's just not enough for me and I agree that something has to change to keep my interest in this generation.

Very well said, I couldn't agree more.

[The 1 2 P]

This era seems to mirror the N64 lifespan - some awesome games, but not enough of them and often paced 6 months apart.

If you had a Gamecube or Wii than I would agree, but the 360 gets good games year round, not once every 6 months.

[TheRealist50]

I have a 360 and Wii and there are a lot of games I enjoy for both. Mainly 360 but even the Wii has a nice selection. 360 has all sorts of different games from FPS to fighters to RPGs to adventure games. lots are variety of different genres each filled with quality games.

Its pretty interesting reading everyone's opinions on this matter. Some much more different then others.

[FrakAttack]

Yeah, innovation has suffered due to the growing cost of game development, but I'm hoping some upstart indies will pull us out of the rut, same way rebellious directors shook up the film industry in the '60s (and need to do again.)

Then again, I've got such a backlog of old games I've never even touched that I'm not in a hurry to buy a bunch of new stuff anyway.

[tomaitheous]

PS2 generation wasn't a bust, but it was lacking for me. The early part of last generation was great, but then...

This generation is awesome. I wasn't into FPS until this generation. Also, I was really getting sick of PS2's aging graphics, low polys, low res and colorless textures, resolution edgies, etc of last generation. This generation couldn't have come soon enough.

[Press_Start]

Although not the best generation, it certainly isn't the worst. We're just at a junction point with the Wii's motion-sensitive technology, XBLA/PSN/VC, the return of retrogaming, and a new generation of gamer brought about by Nintendo in addition to next-gen graphics. It a whole lot for company and consumer to adjust and when they do, the next-gen console will even better.

If you kept up with recent news, then you know there's a whole cornucopia of new titles coming out for PS3, Wii, and 360. Valkyria Chronicles, Sin and Punishment 2, Punch-Out Wii, Mirror's Edge, and more. So don't jump the trains just yet, this gen has more good years to go. :D

Why not try some of these titles if you're still not convinced: Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles, No More Heroes, Zack & Wiki, Dewy's Adventures, Disgaea 3.

[aclbandit]

I agree that it's not quite the same as it used to be. I still prefer my Famicom/NES over anything else.

But I wouldn't call this one a bust just yet. Still a few that I'm really waiting for (Here's to hoping that mirror's edge doesn't blow, eh?), but nothing like my level of "OMFG" from the PSX era (FFVIII, RE3, and all that jazz).

Not a bust, but not epic. This generation leaves me with a feeling of "meh."

EDIT: That is, So Far. ^_^

[ANONPLOX]

PS2 generation wasn't a bust, but it was lacking for me. The early part of last generation was great, but then...

This generation is awesome. I wasn't into FPS until this generation. Also, I was really getting sick of PS2's aging graphics, low polys, low res and colorless textures, resolution edgies, etc of last generation. This generation couldn't have come soon enough.

that why iv started importing PS2 wrestling/fighters/shooters from japan to breath new (and harder) life into my PS2 but if it was easier to play Japanese games on my 360 id be doing that also but id have to mod it since they dont have a swap disc/mod USB dongle option.

[Dangerboy]

Okay, I think I'll add an odd perspective.

It's not so much that this next generation is bust (we're only 2 years / 3 years in, jeez), but it's the fact that the saturation has dramatically changed. I fell out of last generation's era after playing Black; it was the end all be all game, to me. I haven't played about 95% of the GC / PS2 / Xbox libraries combined, for various reasons.

The 'saturation' part I refer to in regards to LAST generation is that there was a false sense of choice. The PS2 is at the largest fault; there were just too many damn games that were too close to each other. You had endless copy / pasted RPGs, which were compounded by the 'chapter' based ones like Dot. Hack; you had too many sequels with their "in-family xeroxing" (Dynasty Warriors, Samurai Warriors, Warriors Orochi), with the final nail being the "ambulance chasing". That is, if a game did well, EVERY FREAKING COMPANY had to quickly drop their version onto the market and flood the category. DDR gave way to Dance Factory, Pump it Up, In the Groove...World Series of Poker gives way to World Championship, World Tour Poker...and on and on and on...

The problem with this generation is that not only is the saturation level at an all time high (read: MINI-GAMES AND ANYTHING DS), but you know have a *severe* lack of creativity in the presentation department. Walk into any game store with a large 'front face' display of games. Here's what you'll see visually: brown, brown, brown, white, white, black, brown, blue, brown, black, brown, brown. Game covers nowadays are in the same CG work that their game represents; since damn near EVERYTHING these days is based in realism, so goes the cover to the dirt, dust, and evil darkness that most game stories contain. It's the rare few like Tales of Vesperia, Battle Fantasia (brown cover, but hand drawn!), and say, Project Gotham 4 that actually bring attention to themselves because they don't look like everything else on the shelf.

This is partially why I went with and still stand by the Wii; yes it's drowning in mini-games and shitty shovelware, but the gems it does have shine brighter than most. I'll take Wii Sports, Zack and Wiki, Elebits, Excitetruck, and others over anything on the PS3. Little Big Planet will probably be the first PS3 game that actually holds me for more than 3 hours.

The 360 shines in its Arcade experience; yes Halo 3, Bioshock, and others are great, but goddamn there are a TON of gems on that online service. Considering I originally bought my 360 just to play Hexic, it's a golden era of smaller game development.

So no, it's not lacking. Sometimes nostalgia just comes on too quickly.

[badinsults]

I don't know man, I was just playing Braid, and I am glad that there is finally some good 2D platforming coming back.

[Matt-El]

Pretty much it's like this: If you can't find anything good about new games, PLAY OLD GAMES.


Nuff Said, Excelsior, etc.

[j_factor]

I agree, but only to an extent. For me, as games get bigger and more serious, I get more easily bored. I got Rainbow Six Vegas 2 for free and I just don't get what people see in these games.

[DiabolicalAdvocate]

I've never loved gaming more than I do now.

[Nature Boy]

I like every new generation for what it offers that the previous didn't.

[Kid Ice]

I'm a crusty old man and even I can name a dozen or so worthwhile games from this gen without even thinking about it. I'd be far more tempted to call last gen (PS2, Xbox, GC) a bust....although not so much if you include Dreamcast.

However, in terms of the hardware itself, all three systems are frustratingly flawed.

[slip81]

Yeah, I'll jump on the boat with everyone else and say that this gen is great. Better than last gen? I don't know, the PS2 had/has a lot of killer games as did the PS1 before it, but it is in no way worse.

When you think about it, there hasn't really been that much variety in game types in the past 20 years. Really every game falls into one of a small handful of genres, but what makes them continue to be interesting isn't the graphics or sound or what have you, but the stories they tell and little gameplay tweaks that improve upon the fomula and allow them to do things in said genre that weren't allowed before for whatever reason.

Also, to anyone who says that there really isn't a big leap between generations graphically probably doesn't have the equipment to fully appreciate the games. Go play Gran Turismo 4 or San Andreas on a standard def tv, then pop in GT Prologue or GTA IV on an HD display and tell me you don't instantly notice a huge step up.

[swlovinist]

I'm a crusty old man and even I can name a dozen or so worthwhile games from this gen without even thinking about it. I'd be far more tempted to call last gen (PS2, Xbox, GC) a bust....although not so much if you include Dreamcast.

However, in terms of the hardware itself, all three systems are frustratingly flawed.

Now the hardware...that is something that I can agree with being flawed

[Electric Blue]

Couldn't disagree more. The gen has tons of great games. There are continuations of existing series (MGS4, GTA4, CoD4...too many 4s) and great new franchises (Bioshock, Gears of War, Resistance, Dead Space).

1) Bioshock isn't "really" a new series.

2) Every single one of those "great new franchises" you listed is a FPS... as is like half of the games released for the damn systems. There are gems out there for sure, you just have to dig through the disapointingly high selling all-the-same-FPSes to get to them.

[ubersaurus]

I think the idea that nothing good is out there before it's all been "dumbed down" is mad.

I've been playing Geometry Wars, Mega Man 9, Orbient, Star Soldier R, Crackdown, Mass Effect, Halo 3, Braid, Mario Galaxy, Castle Crashers, and a slew of other games this gen. There's a wide variety of awesome titles out there. Arguably I may enjoy this gen more than the previous one, just because there are more games out there that I like.

[modest9797]

To name a few titles...
-Dead Rising
-Crackdown
- FEAR
-Rock Band
- Guitar Heroes
- Halo 3
- Viva Pinata
- Fable 2
- Gears of War 1 & 2
- Resident Evil 5
- Super Mario Galaxy
- Twighlight Princess
- Metroid Prime 3
- ALOT more

[Sudo]

1) Bioshock isn't "really" a new series.

2) Every single one of those "great new franchises" you listed is a FPS... as is like half of the games released for the damn systems. There are gems out there for sure, you just have to dig through the disapointingly high selling all-the-same-FPSes to get to them.

Gears of War and Dead Space are not FPS, they're not even first-person at all.

[Icarus Moonsight]

I'm supporting one console (Wii) and two handhelds (DS, PSP) that are all current. Last gen was two consoles (GC, PS2) and one handheld (GBA). Dreamcast had the fork in it already before I jumped on a PS2 and GC. Otherwise this go isn't much different from the last one. Maybe I'm buying a game a bit more often this gen. It comes in spurts. Then I don't find anything for a month or two then BOOM bunch of stuff. Last gen the games came in a more steady trickle. That is certainly different from my perspective. No bust though, more like, little change.

[jdc]

My only small complaints are...the severe lack of durability in the Xbox 360, and the lack of RPGs on the PS3, but those two horses have been flogged to death. Other than that, it's all good. Software-wise, the best is yet to come.

[Slate]

I never really thought of this. I know PS3 and Wii are going rather slow in must have exclusives but the 360 has been getting enough good games for me with more coming! Not all these are exclusives but here is a list of games I enjoy or I expect to be good once they are released:

Civilization Revolution
Condemned 2
Crackdown
Ghostbusters (Not out yet)
Left 4 Dead (Coming out in November)
The Orange Box
Overlord
Rock Band 2
Shadowrun

[otoko]

Can't really tell. This generation has not fallen into my price range yet to make any large assumptions. Plus it's still in it's life cycle. Let's make judgments once we see all the games.

But, so far all the games I have purchased I have rather enjoyed.

As far as all three being flawed systems. I can't really say. Of course we know the 360 is flawed. No denying. The PS3 also had many failures.

Still, could someone enlighten me on the Wii's many failures? Me and several people I know have launch day Wii's and non of us so far had any problems with our consoles. That's also taking in consideration the several times my friend accidentally threw his wiimote into his fireplace.

[snes_collector]

This generation, many of the highly rated games are FPS or TPS, I'm not very interested in those.

I agree, the consoles way to oversaturated by them IMO. So much so, I really don't keep up with everything that comes out anymore.

The only good thing about this is when I actually find something I do like, its pretty relieving.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Well, I think many would refer you to the Wii's online components; friend codes, slow to go WiiWare, ect. Limiting VC releases (some just want the flood gates to open up on this one.) The shovelware snafu. Supply bottlenecks (some suppose it's intentional, while others may not agree). Random drive failures (infrequent, but not unheard of IIRC). Going 512MB internal flash rather than HDD in the tens of GB. Shortsighted on the waggle stick (M+ is Nintendo coping to it! Or so I've heard it said. I see it like the transition from the original Sony PS1 digital pad to the dual shock. But, that's just me I guess.) YMMV.

[megasdkirby]

I personally don't care much for this generation of games. Not that it's bad, because it isn't. But for some reason, very little has interest me, and I find myself play the older consoles more and more than any of the new consoles.

[j_factor]

Also, to anyone who says that there really isn't a big leap between generations graphically probably doesn't have the equipment to fully appreciate the games. Go play Gran Turismo 4 or San Andreas on a standard def tv, then pop in GT Prologue or GTA IV on an HD display and tell me you don't instantly notice a huge step up.

The "leap" you're describing is more due to HD than anything else, though. The vast majority of 360 games could be scaled down to 480p and put on Xbox (or probably even Dreamcast) and still have the same feel intact. This is a far cry from previous generation leaps, where you see games that just couldn't have been done on older hardware at all. It's hard to imagine an SMS version of Lightening Force, or a Sega CD version of Quake, or an N64 version of Wind Waker. It's not as hard to imagine a 360 game reduced to 480p. If Crazy Taxi had been made for Playstation or Saturn, with the corresponding quality of textures, framerate, and draw distance, it would have actually been a worse game. If GT Prologue had been on Xbox, it would've just been less pretty.

[tomaitheous]

The "leap" you're describing is more due to HD than anything else, though. The vast majority of 360 games could be scaled down to 480p and put on Xbox (or probably even Dreamcast) and still have the same feel intact. This is a far cry from previous generation leaps, where you see games that just couldn't have been done on older hardware at all. It's hard to imagine an SMS version of Lightening Force, or a Sega CD version of Quake, or an N64 version of Wind Waker. It's not as hard to imagine a 360 game reduced to 480p. If Crazy Taxi had been made for Playstation or Saturn, with the corresponding quality of textures, framerate, and draw distance, it would have actually been a worse game. If GT Prologue had been on Xbox, it would've just been less pretty.


That might be true for some games, but playing PS2/XBOX side by side of PS3/360 iin general is a huge difference. I can't imagine playing some of these newer titles on the previous generation. The detail would be horrendously dumbed down to the point that I wouldn't bother playing them. Playing Dead Space currently, I fall to see this on the PS2. Matter of fact, I can't even play PS2/GC on my HD set anymore. I've moved the systems over to the 20" SDTV so the visuals aren't as hurt'n.

[Rob2600]

I am the original poster and what I am trying to say is that this generation of consoles simply has nowhere near as many good games as the PS1/PS2 eras. That is the main reason why I am dissapointed.

Are you forgetting that the PlayStation 3 and the Wii haven't even been out for two full years yet?


Yes, I do agree that there are some awesome games like Bioshock, Mario Galaxy, Gears of War, Orange Box, and Smash Bros, and I love them to death. This era seems to mirror the N64 lifespan - some awesome games, but not enough of them and often paced 6 months apart.

Six months apart? I don't think so. If you look at the ratings (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=114086) and do an average, the N64 had a new AAA game roughly every six or seven weeks throughout the course of its life.

If you look at the Wii ratings (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=109135), there's a new AAA game roughly every month (including WiiWare, excluding Virtual Console).


Last generation it felt like there was more variety. This generation, many of the highly rated games are FPS or TPS, I'm not very interested in those.

I own a Wii and there's already a wide variety of highly-rated games (not just first-person shooters):

Art Style: Orbient (WiiWare)
Battalion Wars 2
Bomberman Blast (WiiWare)
de Blob
Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn
Geometry Wars: Galaxies
Guitar Hero: World Tour
LostWinds (WiiWare)
Mario Kart Wii
No More Heroes
Pinball Hall of Fame: The Williams Collection
Pro Evolution Soccer 2008
Trauma Center: Second Opinion
Super Mario Galaxy
Wario Land: Shake It!
Wii Fit
Wii Sports
World of Goo (WiiWare)
Zack & Wiki
etc.

See what I mean? Again, the Wii hasn't even been out for two full years.


Yeah, innovation has suffered due to the growing cost of game development, but I'm hoping some upstart indies will pull us out of the rut

Did everyone suddenly get amnesia? Again, there are plenty of innovative games this generation, like Art Style: Orbient, de Blob, LostWinds, Trauma Center, Wii Fit, Wii Sports, World of Goo, Zack & Wiki, etc...at least on the Wii.

Are that many of you ignorant of the Wii's library?

[Princess-Isabela]

There is one thing that has been on my mind the last year or so. It is the fact that the current generation of systems, though selling well, are seriously lacking in must-have games. The PS1 and PS2 era were incredible with new franchises, types of gameplay and quality games coming out every month. As for the PS3, there are really only one or two exclusive games worth playing. I am not just talking about the PS3 though - the Xbox 360 and Wii seem to only get great games every 6 months as well, if even that. The only game I am really looking forward to is Resident Evil 5..........which comes out in...........5 months!!! My point is that many of our current releases are so dummied down for the 'lowest common denominator' in order to appeal to a more mainstream audience. Does anybody else think this way? Are hardcore gamers like us becoming an endangered species?? Let me know your opinions are...

you're officially on crack.
this generation is amazing and there are plenty of must have titles already available as well as coming shortly.
my most anticipated title lands in three weeks - Banjo Threeie, it's been 8 years since Tooie came out, need my platforming fix hehe.
but seriously you're crazy if you think this generation is lacking.

[RCM]

Besides the troubling success of the Wii, this has been a solid and at times spectacular generation. Plus, 2D and classic titles are finally getting the respect they deserve again. This gen has been far better than I expected so far.

[FrakAttack]

Art Style: Orbient (WiiWare)
Battalion Wars 2
Bomberman Blast (WiiWare)
de Blob
Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn
Geometry Wars: Galaxies
Guitar Hero: World Tour
LostWinds (WiiWare)
Mario Kart Wii
No More Heroes
Pinball Hall of Fame: The Williams Collection
Pro Evolution Soccer 2008
Trauma Center: Second Opinion
Super Mario Galaxy
Wario Land: Shake It!
Wii Fit
Wii Sports
World of Goo (WiiWare)
Zack & Wiki
etc.

See what I mean? Again, the Wii hasn't even been out for two full years.

Did everyone suddenly get amnesia? Again, there are plenty of innovative games this generation, like Art Style: Orbient, de Blob, LostWinds, Trauma Center, Wii Fit, Wii Sports, World of Goo, Zack & Wiki, etc...at least on the Wii.

Are that many of you ignorant of the Wii's library?

Are you ignorant of the meaning of the word "innovative?" Most of the games you listed are sequels and several are from loooong running franchises. :roll:

[Kid Ice]

Are you ignorant of the meaning of the word "innovative?" Most of the games you listed are sequels and several are from loooong running franchises. :roll:

His list was of top shelf Wii games. Except the list at the bottom....which are all games new to this gen to my knowledge.

The thread, as I understand it, is about the "lack" of "must have" games from this generation, not so-called innovative games. Maybe I'm alone on this but IMO most of the "innovative" games I've played in the last 10 years...Pikmin, Katamari, Echochrome, those kinds of games...really didn't do much for me.

[XYXZYZ]

My only regret for this generation is that I'm not getting into it yet. There's quite a few things that interest me for 360, but I don't have one mainly because I'm waiting for reliable hardware, also because there are other things demanding my time and money and investing in 360 (the price of the console is just the beginning) isn't high on my list right now. I doubt I'll get one until Street Fighter IV is out anyway.

In the mean time I have a Wii to play with, but very rarely do I give it any attention.

[geneshifter]

In the mean time I have a Wii to play with, but very rarely do I give it any attention.

Really?! Man, I play that thing all the time nowadays. Lots of VC stuff plus the Wii games themselves. I admit there is a lot of shovelware for the system but there are some real gems in there.

[FrakAttack]

His list was of top shelf Wii games. Except the list at the bottom....which are all games new to this gen to my knowledge.

The thread, as I understand it, is about the "lack" of "must have" games from this generation, not so-called innovative games. Maybe I'm alone on this but IMO most of the "innovative" games I've played in the last 10 years...Pikmin, Katamari, Echochrome, those kinds of games...really didn't do much for me.

Have yet to play a game from this generation that has knocked my socks off. In previous generations there were always those titles that I played for hours, days even, that I couldn't stop thinking about when I was away. Now it's like, "Yeah, that was alright, but I've got other shit to do." Maybe it's the Law of Diminishing Returns in action or maybe I'm just old and jaded now, but I haven't played a "must have" title yet.

Still looking for a game to light that "fire." :onfire:

[j_factor]

That might be true for some games, but playing PS2/XBOX side by side of PS3/360 iin general is a huge difference. I can't imagine playing some of these newer titles on the previous generation. The detail would be horrendously dumbed down to the point that I wouldn't bother playing them.

So a game's only as good as its textures?

In most games, the only difference is a more textured coat of paint. There are a few exceptions, like GTA4's massive city, but they're the minority. Last gen, almost every single game benefitted from the new technology.

[Sabz5150]

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/uploads/18240/lolwut.jpg

i disagree completely, and have little pity for you for not enjoying some of these awesome titles. i too agree that this generation is probably the best since the 16/32bit golden years (89 to like 97).
of course a lot (most) of todays games depend heavily on the graphical wow factor, so maybe that 24" crt is due for an upgrade. nevertheless they are all married to excellent gameplay.

http://ursulav.deviantart.com/art/The-Biting-Pear-of-Salamanca-29677500

NOTE FOR 4CHAN AND ALL THE REST:

Yes. I know. L0L WUT. Yes, yes. I'm aware.


That was my laugh for the day. Thanks :D

[Aussie2B]

It really depends on your view of "must-have". Personally, I'm such a jaded, cheap collector at this point that almost nothing is a "must-have" to me, at least not in terms of forking out 60 bucks (or even 30 or 40 for a handheld game). Ironically, current games have to compete with older games for my money. I have a hard time justifying buying most new games when I can spend 5 bucks buying an older game that can offer just as much satisfaction to me, possibly more.

With that said, there are some interesting games to me this generation, but not so much considering I predominantly play Japanese-developed games, which aren't as big in the US anymore, and of those I prefer RPGs and platformers. Kinda slim pickings on all three home consoles. I am pretty impressed with the handhelds, though. The DS has loads of stuff I plan on picking up cheap later on, and even the PSP has some cool stuff reminiscent of the PS1 era.

I don't find the previous generation that exciting either, to be honest. I don't think anything is ever going to live up to the games of the 8, 16, and 32/64-bit generations for me. Those were more "pure" gaming experiences to me.

[kupomogli]

I honestly think video gaming is dying. PSP and DS are the only systems that have a decent amount of good games.

-andrew- -kupomogli-

[theChad]

It feels weird to me thinking about the next generation of consoles. I mean, this is the first time I've ever been in the middle of one generation thinking about what might come in two or three years.

When I was playing Super Nintendo, I never would've imagined something like the N64, and same for going from 64 to Gamecube, PS1 to PS2 - it's just like each system owned its generation and I never thought about what might be next because I was too absorbed into what was going on at the time.

I feel like this is the first time I've ever experienced a fizzling out in the middle of a system's lifespan. I don't know if it's because I've started to understand the pattern in launching consoles or what, but my point is this is the first generation that ever left me wanting more.

[Retsudo]

Well this gen I only have a PS3. And this is the first time Im having a hard time picking games I want to buy. The last 3 Gens I never had that problem. As of now, I mostly play PSN games like Tekken 5 DR and Super Stardust. My BD drive rarely get any use.

Im sure if there were a Tekken game or an Ace Combat game on the PS3 early on, I would be a little happier. But it's all good though.

[tomaitheous]

So a game's only as good as its textures?


To a point, yes. Would you still play these same games if they were degraded to PS1 specs or lower?

I seriously would not be playing a lot of these games if they were on PS2 hardware (blurry textures, low poly count, slowdown, lower frame rate, jaggies). They wouldn't appeal to me visually. And it's not *just* textures. Look at Dead Rising screen shots for the Wii version. They look terrible (read: distracting).

Of course not all games, but a lot - yes. FPS more than most, too.


I mean, this is the first time I've ever been in the middle of one generation thinking about what might come in two or three years.
It was like that for me last generation. This generation couldn't start soon enough.

[kupomogli]

I agree with the topic more than disagree as aside from the DS and PSP, games this gen are more or less not even worth playing aside from a few.

The only games I've felt that were even worth playing and actually owning are GTA4, Stranglehold, Dead Rising, Gears of War, and Uncharted are games actually worth owning.

Now if you're an FPS gamer, then this current gen is for you. But even so, long running series end up sucking in comparison to the older games. Halo 3 is Halo 2 with a few additions(both good and poor,) but the game sucks compared to the previous title because most of the additions aren't as good, not to mention the stages suck. Unreal Tournament 3 is a great game, but then look at Unreal Tournament 2004 in which most UT fans will agree that the game is better.

What if you're an RPG gamer(Role Playing Game gamer is still fine.) You most likely have multiple games that just suck in comparison to older ones for NES, GEN, SNES, GB, GBA, SAT, PSX, and PS2. The reason reviewers seem to even rate these games highly is due to the fact that since all the latest RPGs on the system sucked, so obviously one being better would deserve a higher rating. If you were to judge any of these games with other games of similar ratings on past systems then you can guarantee that they'd suck total ass in comparison.

How about fighting games?

Soul Calibur 4 is similar to Soul Calibur 2 except for the fact that character damage is unbalanced. Siegfried takes far less damage than he(Nightmare) took on SC2 while quite a few characters take much more. Nightmare is now much weaker from his SC3 version(and is obviously not his SC2 version since Siegfried is) as well as being slower and has a worse reaction time than both his SC2 and SC3 versions.

Super Smash Bros Brawl then? Melee is a much better and balanced game. There was just the same crap, more characters balanced even worse, and then a ton of extra bs added like Final Smash attacks that unbalance the game even worse. Melee is much better aside from the wave dash.

Action games then?

Devil May Cry 4? You go from such an amazing game like DMC3 with an awesome story to one with such a bland and boring storyline plus boring boss battles and a pathetic level design throughout the game. The only good thing about DMC4 is the Bloody Palace which is much better than the choose a floor version that they've had on DMC2 and DMC3SE.

There are a ton of action games on both systems that also aren't worth touching. You have pathetic games like Dark Kingdom and those similar, but why even both playing those than taking out your PS2 and playing similar hack and slash games like Baldur's Gate or Champion's of Norrath Realms of Everquest.

Ninja Gaiden 2? I didn't even like the original on the XBOX and PS3. Don't think I'm talking about the original classic Ninja Gaiden as well as Ninja Gaiden 2 and 3(games that are far better than the crappy next gen titles.)

While the Wii, PS3, and XBOX360 do have SOME games worth playing, the majority of the games aren't worth playing. There's no way the games are even close to being as good as last gen or any generation before them.

So overall. This gen in no way compares to any generation before it. I'd go so far to say as this gen is what's pushing me away from gaming. Sure many games this gen may be better than others and some titles better than those on the specific genres for older generation games, but altogether this gen sucks and if the majority of this crap was released during last gen(obviously with the lower quality graphics,) it'd be getting 5/10 rather than the 7/10 or 8/10 we see with most every release.

However, quite a few DS and PSP games actually compare to games released on the PS2 and even previous gen games(not to mention the PS2 has had some releases better than most on the 360 and PS3 since those systems have been released.) Thankfully these two systems don't suck as they're the only reason I'm still into gaming as my PS3 has been gathering dust for the last few months.

-andrew- -kupomogli-

[Iron Draggon]

I know what you mean... this gen seems to be more about the hardware than the software... in every previous gen, the focus was always on the games... but in this gen, it's more about the tech... the motion controls of the Wii and the high def of HD displays... the games are just sort of there to showcase it all... we were spoiled for decades with awe-inspiring games on hardware that we took for granted... the magic created by the consoles themselves always seemed secondary to the magic that the games made us experience, and now it's the other way around... we're more impressed with the tech itself than we are with what they've done with it... it used to be like "WOW, who knew the hardware could do THAT?" and now it's like "DUH, everybody knows the hardware can do THAT!" there's very few real surprises anymore... even the truly innovative games just don't seem to stand out like they used to... we've come to expect the cutting edge, and as a result, it's become such a common experience that we don't appreciate it as much as we used to... so I think it's a symptom of being a veteran of too many console wars... we've just been blown away so much that nothing really blows us away anymore...

[kupomogli]

Messed up. Disregard this post.

[garagesaleking!!]

i kind of agree with you op, i dont know i did not see this discussion till now.

N64 was the best evidence of games over hardware. All the games were amazing, and it was the most basic looking system ever. they did not even care that the controllers were weird, n64 does not have many bad games.

Thats just my opinion anyway.

[Mimi Nakamura]

There is one thing that has been on my mind the last year or so. It is the fact that the current generation of systems, though selling well, are seriously lacking in must-have games. The PS1 and PS2 era were incredible with new franchises, types of gameplay and quality games coming out every month. As for the PS3, there are really only one or two exclusive games worth playing. I am not just talking about the PS3 though - the Xbox 360 and Wii seem to only get great games every 6 months as well, if even that. The only game I am really looking forward to is Resident Evil 5..........which comes out in...........5 months!!! My point is that many of our current releases are so dummied down for the 'lowest common denominator' in order to appeal to a more mainstream audience. Does anybody else think this way? Are hardcore gamers like us becoming an endangered species?? Let me know your opinions are...

I agree. There is a serious lack of innovation these days. Friends of mine who work in the industry (for Konami and Squaresoft Enix) share the same opinion. It's mostly down to the fact that games have become so expensive to produce that venturing too far away from a "winning" format or design is too risky.

You've got to worry when the people who actually work in the industry share the opinion that innovation in games is dying.

[FrakAttack]

I agree. There is a serious lack of innovation these days. Friends of mine who work in the industry (for Konami and Squaresoft Enix) share the same opinion. It's mostly down to the fact that games have become so expensive to produce that venturing too far away from a "winning" format or design is too risky.

You've got to worry when the people who actually work in the industry share the opinion that innovation in games is dying.

That's what I meant by diminishing returns. Large teams working on big budget games tend to churn out product instead of passion. Individual creativity is lost in the assembly line process of "group think." Recent games, to me at least, are lacking in charm and soul, that "spark" that used to draw me in for good.

It's like dating expensive call girls instead of someone you care about. She's pretty and a good lay, and it's fun while it lasts, but it's just not the same as falling in love.

[tomaitheous]

I agree. There is a serious lack of innovation these days. Friends of mine who work in the industry (for Konami and Squaresoft Enix) share the same opinion. It's mostly down to the fact that games have become so expensive to produce that venturing too far away from a "winning" format or design is too risky.

You've got to worry when the people who actually work in the industry share the opinion that innovation in games is dying.

That's pretty funny when mentioning Square/Enix and Konami. Japanese companies (and gamers), for years, have had a higher threshold in general of what they consider overdone or drawn out when it comes to game development. Innovation is more "subtle" in their case. J-RPGs are a prime example.



N64 was the best evidence of games over hardware. All the games were amazing

Was N64 your first system or something? N64 was a major let down in the game/software department. Off hand I can't think of more than 2 games that I wanted for it (it'd probably be pretty easy to guess what they are too ;) ).

[ubersaurus]

So, Kupo...you say there's no fighting games of note?

So, let me get this straight. You're willing to write off upcoming games like SF4, HD Remix, BlazBlue, KOF 12, Tatsunoko, Tekken 6, and a slew of others?

Seriously, I look over your post, and it brain-kills me. It reeks of an obvious nostalgia bias. I mean, honestly? You look at the libraries for like, Genesis, SNES, PS1, PS2, NES, Atari, hell practically any system. You're GOING to find that the bulk of the games range from okay to shit. I honestly don't think the ratio has changed at all, you're just only noticing it because you're in the midst of this gen. I mean, I don't recall hearing many people singing the praises of old shovelware like Rival Turf for SNES.

There's a shit ton of sweet games I've personally played for Wii and 360. Some are sequels, some aren't. And guess what? Only Halo 3, Metroid Prime 3, and Portal were FPSs. And all three are fucking good games. If anything, this gen has brought a resurgence for classic genres, like 2d beatemups and platformers, shootemups, fighting games, really nifty puzzle games...it may well be one of the best years to be gaming in a good long while.

[j_factor]

To a point, yes. Would you still play these same games if they were degraded to PS1 specs or lower?

PS1? Of course not. That's entirely counter to what I was saying in the first place.


I seriously would not be playing a lot of these games if they were on PS2 hardware (blurry textures, low poly count, slowdown, lower frame rate, jaggies). They wouldn't appeal to me visually.

Okay, but you're insisting on invoking PS2, which had the worst graphics of its generation. I was mainly talking about Xbox, not PS2. Xbox was not prone to blurry textures, slowdown, or jaggies.

And I don't know why you're even mentioning frame rate. One of my biggest complaints about this gen is that frame rates don't seem to have improved much. I was a big fan of Tokyo Xtreme Racer and its sequel on Dreamcast, so naturally, the game that came to be known as Import Tuner Challenge was one of my most anticipated 360 games. Then it came out, and I was stunned to find that it ran at 30 frames per second, when the series had run at 60 fps on Dreamcast, even though the first one was a launch game. Project Gotham Racing ran at 60 fps on Xbox, whereas PGR3 and 4 only run at 30.


And it's not *just* textures. Look at Dead Rising screen shots for the Wii version. They look terrible (read: distracting).

True, but part of that is because they're using the RE4 engine. Last-gen systems could do better that those screen shots indicate. Capcom has commented that they might be able to make the game have 100 zombies at once. None of the screens they've released show anything near that number; more like 20, max. But last-gen systems have done way better than that, with games like Spartan: Total Warrior, which often had well over a hundred enemies and allies on screen at once.

I will say that games with huge swarms of enemies are one of the good uses of current-gen hardware, with Dead Rising and N3 being examples. But not many games call for that sort of thing.


Of course not all games, but a lot - yes. FPS more than most, too.

Well, I'm not sure how many "a lot" is. I'm not saying the better hardware is useless, I'm just saying that far from all games really benefit from it, which is very different from the last gen, when even ports showed major improvement. Dreamcast ports of previous-gen games, like Tony Hawk and Rush 2049, tended to be much easier on the eyes on DC. I played the 360 version of GUN and could barely tell the difference.

Heavy Rain looks absolutely amazing, and is a great showcase of what next-gen power can do. But very few games impress me like that.

[G-Boobie]

1) Bioshock isn't "really" a new series.

2) Every single one of those "great new franchises" you listed is a FPS... as is like half of the games released for the damn systems. There are gems out there for sure, you just have to dig through the disapointingly high selling all-the-same-FPSes to get to them.

Man, I am tired of people hating on FPS games on consoles. There are a million shady, crapped-out JRPG's for PS1, PS2 and every other system ever produced(and now with Infinite Undiscovery and Enchanted Arms, even the 360 isn't immune), but I seldom hear anyone whine about that. Try Burnout Paradise, Dead Space, Eye of Judgment, Dead Rising, or Uncharted if Halo 3 pisses you off so much.


I honestly think video gaming is dying. PSP and DS are the only systems that have a decent amount of good games.

-andrew- -kupomogli-

Huh.

Dead Rising, Stranglehold, Oblivion, Guitar Hero/Rock Band, Earth Defense Force 2017, Siren: Blood Curse, Everyday Shooter, Geometry Wars, Rez HD, Virtua Fighter 5, Call of Duty 4, Project Sylpheed, Dead Space, Metal Gear Solid 4, Viva Pinata, Uncharted: Drake's Fortune, Crackdown, Lost Planet, Linger In Shadows, Valkyria Chronicles, Little Big Planet, Resistance: Fall of Man, Disgaea 3, Fight Night Round 3, Assault Heroes, World of Goo, Super Mario Galaxy, Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles, Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, Boom Blox, Wartech: Senko No Ronde, Orange Box, Eye of Judgment, Elefunk, The Last Guy, Pixeljunk Eden, Braid, Devil May Cry 4, Battle Fantasia, Otomedius, Castle Crashers, Shred Nebula, Wipeout HD, Hexen, Pure, Ninja Gaiden II, Fallout 3... And that's without the remakes and re-releases.

Do you have that kind of time?


That's what I meant by diminishing returns. Large teams working on big budget games tend to churn out product instead of passion. Individual creativity is lost in the assembly line process of "group think." Recent games, to me at least, are lacking in charm and soul, that "spark" that used to draw me in for good.

It's like dating expensive call girls instead of someone you care about. She's pretty and a good lay, and it's fun while it lasts, but it's just not the same as falling in love.

Innovation in game development is an iterative process, and now that we have multi-million dollar budgets, the iteration has slowed down a bit because quite simply, it's expensive to take risks. But make no mistake: games ARE still evolving. Dead Space(my current obsession) has absolutely no HUD and refines some of the mechanics from RE4, Gears, and Lost Planet into something truly new. Fallout 3 looks like it's trying some new mechanics, and Resistance 2 has a few interesting ideas. It wasn't a very good game, but Alone in the Dark was chock FULL of revolutionary concepts.

Will we ever see something as revolutionary as the move into 3D was with the introduction of the N64 and PS1? Other than little stuff like online play on consoles, digital distribution, and player created content, probably not all at once. But it will happen.

A few other games by big publishers that have pushed boundaries this generation include Burnout Paradise, Eye of Judgement, Portal, Bioshock, and Condemned 2(otherwise known as "'Breakdown' that works").

I invite anyone to look at the list of up-til-now published PS2 games and come up with a favorable ratio of innovative games to clones and sub-standard, by-the-numbers bargain bin fodder. I'll save you the time: you can't.

Besides, as it's already been noted, we're at the very start of this generation. We have YEARS yet to see where we'll end up. If Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, and all the huge third party publishers go belly up and we're stuck with mobile phone games and plug and play Atari ports til the end of time, I'll concede the point. Until then, yer nuts.

Every generation this question pops up. I heard the same shit at the N64 and Saturn nadirs, again at the PS2 launch, and again at the Xbox and Gamecube launches. All of those consoles have proud libraries of must-play games. If your opinion is that this generation is a bust, that's your choice and I accept that. I also contend that your tastes are so jaded and rarified that it comes from an extremist viewpoint and should probably be disregarded as such.

[murdoc rose]

as with all systems a lot of the games are crap, yes maybe this gen is worse than last and yea the industry has changed some. As long as people play guitar hero and games of the sort the future of main stream gaming is doomed but gaming will not die completely. Some one will eventually take the time to put out a system that isn't a cheap, buggy upgrade from the last thing they put out and there will always be gamers like like to design good quality games so just wait and maybe be a bit picky on your newer game purchases so in the mean time I advise getting your atari out to kill some time till something cool comes out.