I'm being accused of shill bidding and threatend with legal action??? [Archive]

norkusa

10-27-2008, 06:58 PM

Last week I listed this PC game on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250312754621

There were a few small bids on it and 4 watchers but today the price shot up to $51.00. A few minutes ago, I received this message from the current high bidder:

Using a second account that is new and has 0 feedback to bid up your own auction and thereby force the winning bidder, to pay more, is not only against Ebay rules, it is against the law. If this auction completes at the current price and is paid in full by my organization then both the crime and the tort of Fraud will have been committed. If you do not go back in and remove those false bids that you placed to drive up the price I will file a formal complaint with the police, I will also contact Ebay and Paypal to notify them of the situation and have your account flagged and the money refunded. We do this for the principle of it so please do not make the mistake of thinking this is an idle threat. We have caught and prosecuted 3 people so far on Ebay who do this, and 2 are sitting in jail right now, the other is awaiting trial. Please note that all communications are being recorded for use in a court of law.

Andrew Elmore V.P.
A.F.F.E. Association for a Fraud Free Ebay
So I guess this guy assumes I'm using a shill account to bid up my auction because the 2nd highest bidder is a 0 feedback account that was just created today. I have nothing to do with it though. Heck, new accounts with 0 feedback bid on my stuff all the time but this is the first that anyone has accused me of shill bidding.

So what should I do? To me, it sounds like this guy went over his head with the bidding and is looking for an excuse to not pay. I just know if he ends up winning the auction though, he'll file a chargeback with Paypal and I'll end up getting screwed out of my game *and* money. Should I just cancel his bids instead?

Igorr

10-27-2008, 07:01 PM

Just to be safe I would cancel ALL of his bids and add him to your blocked bidder list. Even if that hurts you money wise, it will be good for you in the long run.

How many feedbacks does this moron have that is bidding on your auction? EBAY itself WILL flag your account IF you are shill bidding. He has no idea that you are, he is just pissed off that he is having to pay more.

hogfishmaster

10-27-2008, 07:02 PM

I wouldn't worry about it.If the current high bidder isn't linked to your account you have nothing to worry about.

megasdkirby

10-27-2008, 07:05 PM

Cancel his bids and block his acccount.

You could also eliminate the newbie with zero feedback bids. I know I would, just in case.

Report him to Ebay for blackmail (or a type of). You could be even piss him off further by stating "If you where from Ebay, then you could trace IP and would realize it's not me. Furthermore, you could cancel the entire auction and not result to "idle threats".

This guy is a moron.

Cornelius

10-27-2008, 07:10 PM

That's pretty funny. It reads to me like he's trying to intimidate you into canceling other bids. I'd report HIM. Why are you worried about a Paypal claim? If you follow all the seller protection rules you should be fine. Of course, if you can avoid the hassle, that would be better, so canceling his bids might be a good idea.

norkusa

10-27-2008, 07:16 PM

I fixed the auction link so you guys should be able to see it now.

They guy has a little over 300 positive feedbacks, so he's definitely not a n00b. He's just being a dick. I want to leave the auction as-is and not cancel anything but I'm worried Ebay and Paypal will freeze my account if he complains. Can they even do that?

BTW, here's my reply to the guy:

If I'm going to remove anybody's bid, it would be yours for calling me a criminal and threatening me. I am not connected in any way with this 0 feedback account and a simple verification by Ebay will prove that. If the price of the auction is too high for you, perhaps you should not have bid in the first place. Making false accusations without any evidence is also a crime, you know.

Kitsune Sniper

10-27-2008, 07:20 PM

You know, now that you said all that... if he wins, he'll do everything in his power to screw you over. Leave you a neg, claim that the item is not as described or that it never got there, etc.

Too bad we can't see that douchetard's username... I don't want him near my PC auctions.

Edit: I support reporting him, by the way. Someone tried that with me years ago. It didn't fly, of course.

megasdkirby

10-27-2008, 07:22 PM

Problem is, if he wins, you know he will cause you lots of problems.

I also understand not tampering with the auction...but I would at least eliminate his bids. But the decision is up to you.

I wonder how he will reply with the message you sent him?

The 1 2 P

10-27-2008, 07:23 PM

I agree with the fellas above. He isn't in any organization except for the special olympics and I'm sure he gets beaten there too. If you want him to stay and pay, get a tracking number and insurance. That way your ass is covered from all angles. But seriously, you have two main goals right now. First, use that same copy and paste(or forward) and report him to ebay for harrassment. Second, cancel his bid and block him from your auctions. Furthermore, be on the lookout for another 0 feedback bidder in case he tries to bid with a newly created name just to screw with you.

norkusa

10-27-2008, 07:27 PM

Too bad we can't see that douchetard's username... I don't want him near my PC auctions.

His username is 'elmoreas'. Looks like he bids on a lot of classic games, so it might be a good idea to put him on your blocked bidder lists:

http://myworld.ebay.com/elmoreas/

I'll let you know what he says when he replies (if at all).

megasdkirby

10-27-2008, 07:28 PM

Second, cancel his bid and block him from your auctions. Furthermore, be on the lookout for another 0 feedback bidder in case he tries to bid with a newly created name just to screw with you.

Is it possible to cancel and block his stupid ass minutes before the listing ends? That way it prevents him from making an account quick enough to bid and win.

norkusa

10-27-2008, 07:32 PM

Is it possible to cancel and block his stupid ass minutes before the listing ends? That way it prevents him from making an account quick enough to bid and win.

I don't think you can cancel bids within the last 12 or 24 hours of the auction (this might be why he didn't cancel his himself). I still haven't decided if I should cancel them though. If I'm going to, I gotta do it soon.

Tupin

10-27-2008, 07:41 PM

I looked up "Association for a Fraud Free Ebay" and it doesn't even have a website or anything and no one seems to be aware of it.

Besides, the only people you should worry about on matters like this is eBay, because only they can actually do something.

So yeah, cancel his bids, block him, and delete the bids of the guy with 0 feedback.

Igorr

10-27-2008, 07:44 PM

I don't think you can cancel bids within the last 12 or 24 hours of the auction (this might be why he didn't cancel his himself). I still haven't decided if I should cancel them though. If I'm going to, I gotta do it soon.

Hey, I think you can cancel bids anytime you want, unless ebay changed that too. I have canceled 0 feedback bids within the last few hours of my auctions, at least I think I remember doing that.

EDUT: Also, the guy looks like a friggin idiot IMO. Slap a hoodie and some sun glasses on him and he would look like the unibomber.

Kitsune Sniper

10-27-2008, 07:44 PM

Jeebus. This guy has an insane amount of disposable income. And he buys guns. Lots of 'em.

He's blocked from my auctions now.

Cornelius

10-27-2008, 07:48 PM

Porksta

10-27-2008, 07:50 PM

Wait, if he wins the auction and pays for it fraud has been committed? That doesn't make too much sense.

norkusa

10-27-2008, 07:51 PM

Hey, I think you can cancel bids anytime you want, unless ebay changed that too. I have canceled 0 feedback bids within the last few hours of my auctions, at least I think I remember doing that.

Ahh, okay. Maybe I'll cancel his bids then. I just don't understand why he doesn't do it himself.

I just filed a complaint with Ebay for receiving a threatening email message and gave them a copy of it. Funny thing is that Ebay says they can't respond to me with the outcome because of privacy rules, but maybe he'll at least get the idea that I'm not bidding in my own auctions and taking any of his shit.

megasdkirby

10-27-2008, 07:51 PM

I can be pretty paranoid when it comes to eBay, so bear with me here...

could it be that this person is using 3 accounts? One to make an initial low bid, one to make a very high bid, and a new one created to "shill". The second two are only there to drive the bid up to where no one else would bid, then are canceled at the end so the 'real' bid wins? Okay, so that's pretty convoluted and fraught with potential flaws (can a bidder cancel at the end?), but that's what comes to my (admittedly paranoid... sometimes) mind.

I thought that too.

But then, I recall (unless it was changed) that no one can cancel a bid during the last 12 hours of the listing. Which means that if he did that, there is no way to revert to the original amount he wanted.

The 1 2 P

10-27-2008, 07:54 PM

Wait, if he wins the auction and pays for it fraud has been committed? That doesn't make too much sense.

He thinks he'll end up paying more because of the bidder with 0 feedback. He thinks the 0 feedback bidder was created by norkusa to drive up his auction price. But this is obviously bull shit because norkusa hasn't done anything wrong, including making fake names to shill bid.

Porksta

10-27-2008, 07:56 PM

He thinks he'll end up paying more because of the bidder with 0 feedback. He thinks the 0 feedback bidder was created by norkusa to drive up his auction price.

Okay after rereading it it makes sense now. I just thought it was weird that "hey I won and paid for the item and in doing so have made you commit fraud."

norkusa

10-27-2008, 07:58 PM

Interesting theory, Cornelius. A pretty elaborate scam for someone to pull but I bet it happens.

It'd be funny if Ebay looked into his account after I reported his message and they saw that he really was doing that. I'd almost wish it was true in that case. :p

gum_drops

10-27-2008, 08:05 PM

You can cancel bids on your auction anytime you want. That 12 hour rule applies to bidders canceling their own bids.

Some little shit bid on a gamegear tuner as the high bidder for 6 days and then emailed me within 3 hours of auction end stating they wont pay. I canceled the bid and need to relist the tuner. I am still annoyed about that.

I dont know what the deal with your paranoid little bidder is. He could of canceled his bid if it is a simple case of buyers remose. But instead he leaves his bid and sends you that lame email. I say wait right until the auction ends and cancel all the bids.

evil_genius

10-27-2008, 08:13 PM

ebay has become an awful nasty place. I would cancel his bids and block him.

Cornelius

10-27-2008, 08:16 PM

also, fyi you have elmoreas and elmoraes in the post above. I tried to look him up w/ the wrong one and couldn't find him. Would suck to block him w/ the wrong name.

norkusa

10-27-2008, 08:21 PM

also, fyi you have elmoreas and elmoraes in the post above. I tried to look him up w/ the wrong one and couldn't find him. Would suck to block him w/ the wrong name.

Ugh, sorry about that. Fixed it now. It's "elmoreas"

Bojay1997

10-27-2008, 08:47 PM

You did the right thing in reporting him to Ebay. I wonder if he realizes that he is probably guilty of a much more serious crime than the shill bidding he is accusing you of. I really hope Ebay goes after this clown.

ryborg

10-27-2008, 09:19 PM

I've gotten a few emails like this over the years, usually from the high bidder who realized he bid too much and is trying to find a way out of paying without getting a strike. It's internet terrorism because he's trying to scare you into not completing the transaction (or if not that, he's looking for a deal).

If you're not shilling, cancel his bid, tell him to piss off, then add him to your block list. Unless you really jump though a lot of hoops, ebay will know if you're shilling or not. Reporting him can't hurt either. Good luck.

Tupin

10-27-2008, 09:27 PM

ryborg

10-27-2008, 11:01 PM

Just out of curiosity, are you the guy who runs that eBay Morons site or do you just link it in your sig?

Yep, it's my blog thing and I really need to update it now that I have some free time.

norkusa

10-27-2008, 11:09 PM

Ugh, I'm really torn on deciding what to do here. On one hand, I want to cancel this guys bids because I KNOW he'll file a Paypal chargeback against me and my account will get flagged and possibly frozen.

But on the other hand, I know I'm doing nothing wrong and I don't want to let this guy bully me around. The game only cost me $2 so it's no big loss to me. I just want my Ebay and Paypal accounts to be in good standing.

What I don't understand is if this guy thinks my auction is rigged, why doesn't he just cancel his own bids since there is plenty of time left? Ebay doesn't give you a strike against your account for doing that, do they?

Also, the fact that his message sounds like a cut-and-paste form letter makes me real suspicious too. Makes me wonder how many other sellers he sent it to.

Kitsune Sniper

10-28-2008, 12:17 AM

Cancel auction, ban the moron, relist the auction.

Better safe than sorry.

norkusa

10-28-2008, 12:39 AM

Cancel auction, ban the moron, relist the auction.

Better safe than sorry.

Yeah, I think you're right. As much as I hate caving into this asshole, it's probably the best thing to do. If this happened before the feedback rule change (sellers not being able to leave neg feedback to buyers), I'd keep the listing up and not cancel anything.

Do you think I should really cancel the auction instead of just his bids? I don't have any problems with a new, zero feedback bidder in my auctions. If he flakes out, I'll just file a NPB and relist it a week later. Or did this guy taint my auction so much, I should just start over from scratch?

The 1 2 P

10-28-2008, 01:26 AM

Just cancel the dude that threatened you and block him from your auctions. Theres no real reason for you to cancel the whole auction.

norkusa

10-28-2008, 01:48 AM

I just canceled all his bids and put him on my blocked list. Now hopefully this new 0 feedback high bidder doesn't screw me over too:

elmoreas (http://myworld.ebay.com/elmoreas/)http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif( 307 (http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=elmoreas)http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/icon/iconTealStar_25x25.gif) http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif

Cancelled: US $51.57
Explanation: Accused me of shill bidding and sent threatening messages. This man has issues.

The 1 2 P

10-28-2008, 01:52 AM

Good job. I'm proud of you. I also love the explanation of why you cancelled his bid, lol.

Frankie_Says_Relax

10-28-2008, 02:36 AM

If you weren't shill bidding you have nothing to worry about.

I'm sure eBay logs IP addresses on each bid.

They'd know if it was you.

Oobgarm

10-28-2008, 06:31 AM

At least you'd only be out a couple bucks if the new bidder does flake. Cancelling that guy's bids was the right thing to do to cover your own ass.

Also, 'tort of Fraud' is a really funny phrase to say out loud. I think I may try to work it into a converstaion sometime.

Funk Buddy

10-28-2008, 09:48 AM

Jeebus. This guy has an insane amount of disposable income. And he buys guns. Lots of 'em.

He's blocked from my auctions now.

Where do you see he buys guns? Not on eBay, since they are not allowed.

megasdkirby

10-28-2008, 11:22 AM

PapaStu

10-28-2008, 11:23 AM

Where do you see he buys guns? Not on eBay, since they are not allowed.

In one of his recent sales he sold an Airsoft Sniper Rifle. I think thats where Kitsune came up with that line of thought.

norkusa

10-28-2008, 11:39 AM

If you weren't shill bidding you have nothing to worry about.

I'm sure eBay logs IP addresses on each bid.

They'd know if it was you.

Right, but it sounds like he was intent on winning & paying for the auction. If that happened, he probably would have left me a negative feedback and a Paypal chargeback anyways. It's better just to cancel his bid and put him on my blocked list so I don't have to deal with him anymore.

Never heard back from him either. I'm starting to think he just wanted me to cancel his bid because he didn't expect the price to go so high. The thing that makes me mad though is that I had 3 people that took this auction off their Watch lists after the price got to $51.00. So now this auction will probably stay where it is until it's over.

megasdkirby

10-28-2008, 11:51 AM

Never heard back from him either. I'm starting to think he just wanted me to cancel his bid because he didn't expect the price to go so high. The thing that makes me mad though is that I had 3 people that took this auction off their Watch lists after the price got to $51.00. So now this auction will probably stay where it is until it's over.

I would presume that if you eliminate the newbie's bid, then perhaps people will go back and bid on your auctions. They already know the newbie placed a bid of over $50, and are apprehensive in doing so because perhaps they don't want to pay that high. But if you eliminate his bid as well, then others may see this as a chance to "rebid".

It's up to you, though. I would cancel the new guys bid as well...don't trust newbies on Ebay... :(

Kitsune Sniper

10-28-2008, 12:19 PM

In one of his recent sales he sold an Airsoft Sniper Rifle. I think thats where Kitsune came up with that line of thought.

I saw his feedback. He sold a freakin' airsoft SHOTGUN. I'm sorry, but that man is probably fucking crazy. Even his picture scares me.

norkusa

10-28-2008, 12:22 PM

They already know the newbie placed a bid of over $50, and are apprehensive in doing so because perhaps they don't want to pay that high.

Ugh, I didn't even think of that. I'm afraid that if I cancel the noobs bid though, the auction will end even lower than what it is now. Guess i should just start the auction over. :(

Yeah Kit, I saw the guns and was a little freaked out too. Same with his pic. Reminds me of Timothy McVeigh for some reason.

EDIT: Guess there is a 12 hour rule for canceling bids so I have to leave the auction up. That sucks.

Bojay1997

10-28-2008, 12:54 PM

I saw his feedback. He sold a freakin' airsoft SHOTGUN. I'm sorry, but that man is probably fucking crazy. Even his picture scares me.

Why would anyone put up their picture on Ebay? He looks totally nuts.

Dark_Sol

10-28-2008, 01:03 PM

This dude is some nazi maybe... Look at his pics. He's mad! lol
You did the right thing.

norkusa

10-28-2008, 02:49 PM

Okay, now this is getting ridiculous. My auction is back up to $46 thanks to dickiethonphils, a 3 year Ebayer with -1 feedback. He's not the current high bidder (0 feedback guy is) but he put in a bid for $45. Check out his feedback comments (both from the same seller):

http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/icon/iconNeg_16x16.gifUNTRUSTWORTHY EBAY BUYER DO NOT SELL TO THIS GUY OR YOU WILL GET A NEGATIVE BAD

http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/icon/iconNeg_16x16.gifSELLERS BEWARE THIS IS A NAME USED FOR GIVING NEGATIVE FEEDBACK CANCEL ALL BIDS

I just want to cancel my auction now but it's too late to do anything. I put this dickiethonphils bidder on my blocked list so he can't place any more bids. Here is his profile:

http://myworld.ebay.com/dickiethonphils/

jb143

10-28-2008, 03:04 PM

If you havn't already, I would inform Ebay of all of this. It's true that sellers can't leave negative feedback anymore but you can cause buyers to be banned from EBay if you turn them in for these kinds of shenanigans.

norkusa

10-28-2008, 03:22 PM

I'm clicking on the 'Report Item' link on the bottom of my auction page. When the screen comes up, I see 4 selection bars all saying "choose one" but I can't select anything when I click on them. Tried using 2 different browsers too. What a mess.

Is there an easier way of contacting Ebay about this? I went thru the site map and didn't see any other options.

jb143

10-28-2008, 03:45 PM

It is annoying navigating their menu's. I've had luck starting a live chat before though...they were actually somewhat helpfull too.

megasdkirby

10-28-2008, 03:59 PM

Cancel the entire listing.

I feel that this won't go well at all. I bet the new bidder from before and the negative bidder are one in the same.

Also, I feel that if you leave this auction up any longer, it will go very high and force you to pay more fees.

If you relist, put in your listing that you do NOT accept anyone below X feedback or anyone before Y date.

super nes

10-28-2008, 04:05 PM

well it looks like the guy with zero feedback bidded again and theres an hour to go....

Funk Buddy

10-28-2008, 04:22 PM

I saw his feedback. He sold a freakin' airsoft SHOTGUN. I'm sorry, but that man is probably fucking crazy. Even his picture scares me.

You know that's a toy gun right? What's the big deal? Not saying he's not crazy and pulling something, but it's got nothing to do with him selling a toy gun.

Kitsune Sniper

10-28-2008, 04:28 PM

You know that's a toy gun right? What's the big deal? Not saying he's not crazy and pulling something, but it's got nothing to do with him selling a toy gun.

I wouldn't know, to be honest - airguns are for the most part illegal where I live.

I still get a bad vibe from him. I didn't mean to offend anyone who uses guns or such. :(

norkusa

10-28-2008, 04:47 PM

I contacted Live Support. I asked if they could end the auction and all they said was that it looked suspicious and "our team will investigate and take appropriate action". Whatever that means. :roll:

Tupin

10-28-2008, 04:47 PM

I wouldn't know, to be honest - airguns are for the most part illegal where I live.

I still get a bad vibe from him. I didn't mean to offend anyone who uses guns or such. :(
I don't blame you.

Who puts their picture on eBay, anyway....

norkusa

10-28-2008, 04:53 PM

I don't blame you.

Who puts their picture on eBay, anyway....

No kidding. The threatening message and airsoft guns he bid on didn't phase me but when I noticed he posted his picture, I knew this guy was mental.

jb143

10-28-2008, 04:54 PM

Also, I feel that if you leave this auction up any longer, it will go very high and force you to pay more fees.

But if the buyer doesn't pay then EBay will return all fees. If the seller gets propper tracking/delivery confirmation then he has nothing to worry about. Except maybe wasting time.

Also, not all 0 FB are scammers. I've had the oportunity to sell to many 1'st time buyers over the years and have had very little problems. I will admit that this case seems a little fishy but I'd still let it play out.

In the end, if the buyer is trying something then they will be kicked off EBay and the fees will be refunded. I've seen it happen with a buyer that wasn't paying me. I just wanted my fees back and Ebay gave them the boot.

super nes

10-28-2008, 05:11 PM

And bidding is over lets see if this zero feedback user who registered yesterday will pay up...

rcc8756

10-28-2008, 05:20 PM

who would pay 450 bucks for a toy gun anyway, you could be a nice firearm for that.

Funk Buddy

10-28-2008, 05:31 PM

who would pay 450 bucks for a toy gun anyway, you could be a nice firearm for that.

The same kind of person that'll spend crazy money on anything they collect.

Funk Buddy

10-28-2008, 05:32 PM

I wouldn't know, to be honest - airguns are for the most part illegal where I live.

I still get a bad vibe from him. I didn't mean to offend anyone who uses guns or such. :(

No sweat. They look like real weapons for the most part, but shoot plastic pellets. Some folks like to dress up and play mall ninja or war... kind of like paintballers.

Kitsune Sniper

10-28-2008, 05:58 PM

No sweat. They look like real weapons for the most part, but shoot plastic pellets. Some folks like to dress up and play mall ninja or war... kind of like paintballers.

Plastic pellets?

I thought those things shot tiny metal balls.

Tupin

10-28-2008, 06:08 PM

Plastic pellets?

I thought those things shot tiny metal balls.
Those are BB Guns.

Airsoft guns shoot plastic pellets.

Kitsune Sniper

10-28-2008, 06:12 PM

Those are BB Guns.

Airsoft guns shoot plastic pellets.

... Oooooooooooooooooooooooh.

Well.

I feel stupid(er) now. :P

Tupin

10-28-2008, 06:23 PM

... Oooooooooooooooooooooooh.

Well.

I feel stupid(er) now. :P
Don't feel bad, the only difference is that when one hits, it just stings a little and bounces off, but BBs dig in.

BB guns are treated like real firearms around here for that reason, you have to be 18 or have a parent with you to buy one.

murdoc rose

10-28-2008, 06:25 PM

wow I keep seeing these threads and after dealing with these past few hundred auctions I think I'm going to go post some more stuff on my sales thread lol.

wow lol that's funny kitsune, can't believe air guns are illegal at all that's lame and kind of scary. Personally I do think air soft is kind of lame but I think that's just because I've always played paint ball.

It's also sad and scary that there is even talk of a scam on a 50$ item.

Drexel923

10-28-2008, 07:03 PM

I might have missed someone else mentioning it, but when you list an item you can make it so 0 and -1 feedback bidders are automatically blocked from bidding. Just for future reference.

The 1 2 P

10-28-2008, 07:17 PM

Who puts their picture on eBay, anyway....

A few weeks ago I had a 0 feedback bidder win one of my auctions and she had her picture up too. Today she has 6 feedbacks and her picture is still there. Btw, she's hot and from Canada. "Ohhhhhh Canadaaaaaaaaaa............."

Kitsune Sniper

10-28-2008, 07:20 PM

I might have missed someone else mentioning it, but when you list an item you can make it so 0 and -1 feedback bidders are automatically blocked from bidding. Just for future reference.

Actually, you can't block zero feedback bidders, just the ones with -1 or lower.

Drexel923

10-28-2008, 07:39 PM

Actually, you can't block zero feedback bidders, just the ones with -1 or lower.

You are correct...my mistake. Well at least the -1 will be taken care of ;)

megasdkirby

10-28-2008, 09:23 PM

A few weeks ago I had a 0 feedback bidder win one of my auctions and she had her picture up too. Today she has 6 feedbacks and her picture is still there. Btw, she's hot and from Canada. "Ohhhhhh Canadaaaaaaaaaa............."

Link! Now!!!

:p

ryborg

10-28-2008, 10:37 PM

WOW there's a lot of new replies to this thread.

The funny thing about ebay is that if the high bidder pays and doesn't do anything strange, this could be considered a successful transaction after all the initial nonsense. Assuming of course that $46 is a good price for the item. I know nothing about the value of games like that, so is that a good price?