Game Industry Still Fighting Used Game Sales

[The 1 2 P]

It's the same old song and dance: when you rent or buy a used copy of a game, the developers of said game aren't making a dime off of it. So naturally they want you to buy it new and they are still coming up with new ways to make you do so: http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/news/game-industry-fighting-back-against-used-sales-says-epic/?biz=

As for me personally, I rarely ever buy used games for 3 reasons. First, very seldom do you find used copies in good condition, especially at Gamestop. Second, Gamestop owns about 95% of the video game market here in Maryland and I refuse to buy from there unless it's something really rare and very cheap. And third, I like getting a new copy because: either I'm the first to open and play it or I'll save it and sell it(still sealed)for a premium if I never get around to playing it.

My suggestions to the game industry would be, first try to get those retail prices down. I know all about inflation but since we are seeing so many in-game ads recently, how come the prices haven't lowered? Also they should try to keep their games fresh with new downloadable content every 2-4 months. Finally, make a really good online component. From my experience people spend way more time playing the online portions of their games than they do the single player portions.

Ok guys, nows your time to weigh in.

[chicnstu]

My suggestions to the game industry would be, first try to get those retail prices down. I know all about inflation but since we are seeing so many in-game ads recently, how come the prices haven't lowered? Also they should try to keep their games fresh with new downloadable content every 2-4 months. Finally, make a really good online component. From my experience people spend way more time playing the online portions of their games than they do the single player portions.

Ok guys, nows your time to weigh in.

I don't play games online very often, I just don't enjoy it. So I would be disappointed if most companies spent more time on the online part of games, that means less time on single player (Example: COD4 and GoW single player was so short).

But I play RPGs, adventure games, third-person action, etc so maybe it wouldn't affect me much. And most people that are into FPS are probably as or more into online play.

[j_factor]

All but the most popular games are out of production in under two years. If I want to get a game that's not on the shelves anymore, I should just be SOL?

This is the stupidest thing ever. For all their ridiculous statements, I've never heard the RIAA say anything attacking used CD sales. I don't see the MPAA urging people not to buy used DVDs. I've never heard of a book publisher referring to used book stores as "defrauding" their industry.

These game industry people are full of crap.

[TonyTheTiger]

I think that all the fire and brimstone people try to rain down usually ends up going nowhere. Amazon.com, with their used book sales, is the bane to traditional publishers yet you don't see Random House closing its doors or Stephen King jumping off a bridge. So, my take? They can bitch and yell all they want but the status quo probably won't change too much.

[heybtbm]

Ok guys, nows your time to weigh in.

Part of the reason I buy new games is the knowledge that if I don't want the game anymore, I can sell it and reclaim some of the money I paid. If games weren't able to be resold (ex: downloadable type stuff), I simply wouldn't buy as much. I'd only buy A-list titles that I was certain I'd like. I'd rarely take a chance on something for $59.99, if I knew I was going to be stuck with it.

I'm certainly not the only one who would react this way, and the game industry knows this. I don't think things are going to change anytime soon. IMO, the best way to combat used sales is with incentives that are only available to people who buy the game new. Some companies have already caught on. Gears of War 2 has those exclusive multiplayer maps included in the first wave of new copies (for instance).

[tom]

It's the same old song and dance: when you rent or buy a used copy of a game, the developers of said game aren't making a dime off of it.
Ok guys, nows your time to weigh in.


Well, they are liars, as for that said game, the royalties have been paid. Goes like this: One new game, sold, one royalty paid, he would not get royalties for that game again, so it's perfectly legal to sell the game second-hand. If the game sells 10.000, he gets royalties for 10.000 sold games, if those 10.000 games are now sold second-hand, he cannot claim payment again.

[walrusmonger]

Well, they are liars, as for that said game, the royalties have been paid. Goes like this: One new game, sold, one royalty paid, he would not get royalties for that game again, so it's perfectly legal to sell the game second-hand. If the game sells 10.000, he gets royalties for 10.000 sold games, if those 10.000 games are now sold second-hand, he cannot claim payment again.

Yes, but those 10k games that were sold second hand could have been sold new so they got paid for selling 20k instead of selling 10k once and having another store make the money on the next sale.

I kind of agree with them, but it would bring the end of game stores as we know it. If gamestop couldn't offer rape prices only to resell for $5 to $10 less, they would lose money, close stores, buy less, and the publishers would then make even less money.

So used games are lose/lose to the publishers.

[gepeto]

If the companies offered used games to the die hards they could take a huge chunk. For me to buy new everytime is just to expensive. I look at it like a new car the miniute it is off the lot the price goes down substantially. I have found mint used games at a bunch of stores.

I Do like supporting the developer but the buy 2 used get one free or the 20 percent off plus edge is a sweet deal. Where else are you going to get gears 2 fable 2 and deep space for 110.00. I just wish there was a developers club where we could joing and get new ones for 10 bucks off. Believe it or not Ea use to let you call in and if you preordered madden or triple play it was 39.99.

I think they could do more than go after the collector with the limited edition. Cater to the frugal and tha ones that buy.

[c0ldb33r]

I usually only buy used games.

I'll buy them EB Games after they've been out for a long time and they've gone clearance, or will buy them secondhand from an actual person. Either way I'll save an enormous amount of money.

And for the game developers.... guess what? That person I just $20.00 for that used game, will now use my $20.00 along with $20.00 of their own to purchase a new game.

The game developers will be fine.

[s1lence]

Sounds like the rich bitching about not being richer. When Cliffy B is stuck driving around in a 1988 Honda Accord....then I will worry.

I buy new and used, probably more new then used. Especially with the 360 games played list, having to stay in the top 20 makes it that I need to buy new. Also all the LEs I buy are new as well. Then again I buy used copies of games from other countries too. The fact is that if a game sucks, I'm not going to pay full price for it. Or if I hate the maker of a game (Fable II ) I will not buy it until its used.

They can piss and moan all they want, but there is a large industry that has been created around used games. Consumers decide and it seems like the masses buy used games.

[AlphaGamer]

............................

[DigitalSpace]

/me still says "meh," continues browsing porn

(and buying mostly used games)

[Sabz5150]

The used piles at the GeStapo are quite often a good measure as to the quality of a title. Resale price combined with the number of copies on the shelf are a good way of telling if a title is worth your paper presidents. The dozen copies of Unlimited SaGa at 4 bucks apiece tell me this game is destined for the shitpile while the one copy of Digital Devil Saga that comes across once every blue moon for 50 bucks means I'm in for a treat.

The market speaks... and it says if you wanna make money, make decent games.

[swlovinist]

I usually only buy used games.

I'll buy them EB Games after they've been out for a long time and they've gone clearance, or will buy them secondhand from an actual person. Either way I'll save an enormous amount of money.

And for the game developers.... guess what? That person I just $20.00 for that used game, will now use my $20.00 along with $20.00 of their own to purchase a new game.

The game developers will be fine.

exactly. I too buy almost all used, and am usually only buy a few A+ titles a year along with some portable/budget titles new. Instead of fighting the used game market, the game industry needs to focus on making solid, affordable gaming that is original. Also with a Gamestop, Pawn, Used game store on every block selling last weeks big hot game for $5 to $10 less, why wouldn't anyone want to by used?

[Nature Boy]

I'm willing to bet what *really* irks the publishers about the Gamestops of the world is that those retailers PUSH the used stuff over the new stuff constantly. When haven't you been told there's a used copy of the game you want for $5-$10 less?

I see what they did with CivRev happening more often. I bought the game at BestBuy after reading I'd get free downloadable content. Not that I'd *ever*
part with my copy, but if I did the next owner wouldn't get that content. Not unless they spent the $5 as digital download material, which at least gives the publisher *some* money from that used sale.

I'm curious about what it'll all mean, but I won't be worried about anything.

[skaar]

Hey, used sales totally cut into a new game's sales figures - there's no denying that.

The slimmer margins available to retailers on games, the NO margins available on consoles, the popularity of video games in general... add those up and you're going to end up with a business trying to make money SOMEWHERE.

And unfortunately, the business that makes sense is buying and reselling used games. Hell, Future Shop (a chain similar to Best Buy here in Canada that actually got BOUGHT by Best Buy) has just launched a tradein program.

All of your arguments for why you buy used games that I have seen support exactly what the problem is - people aren't buying the A list titles at launch which is when the companies can actually make a profit to PAY for that expensive title. It's not a question of originality or making a better game, it's a matter of breaking even or losing money on a game.

This is why the smaller publishers are getting eaten by the big boys - they can afford to launch 20 titles, lose money on 10, break even on 4 and profit on 6. The little guys can't DO that anymore.

Now I'm horrible at this myself... I buy at a discount when the game has been out for awhile. I'll shell out for a big title's collector edition once in awhile, that's about it.

The used game business IS killing the industry. That`s why the XBLA and PSN and Wii downloads will be the only spot smaller publishers have a chance - and can at least know that their sales numbers are paying THEM.

[SpaceHarrier]

I don't buy used games very often.

I do buy a decent amount of heavily discounted/clearanced/Greatest Hits games though. So I guess that probably isn't helping them out too much either.

Imminent collapse is imminent

[scooterb23]

I'll buy new games. As long as they are under $20. Actually, my game buying has gotten down to nearly zero thanks to Gamefly.

[retroman]

yep your right EB and gamestop do run everything here in MD. Except for PowerGamer. Love that store. Im a Ellicott City native myself. Not to far away.

[sisko]

If this is how they feel; not one of those developers should have ever bought anything from a used car lot, thrift store, yard sale or otherwise.

I sense a bit of hypocracy.

[exit]

I really don't understand why they're still bitching about used games, especially if the game is no longer in print, it's not the buyer's fault for wanting a game that the original publisher no longer manufactures. They made their money off of the copy the first time and well if the game didn't sell well the first time around there's really nobody to blame, that's just how things go sometimes.

I can somewhat understand a company getting upset when their game doesn't sell well at all, especially when it's a game that seemed to fall through the cracks and received good reception from critics. Now if a game sells exceptionally well and the company is bitching, well then they seriously need to shut the fuck up about it. If you made twice your profit back the fist time around and still make some money off the game when it goes "Greatest Hits", then there's really no need for you to get thirds, fourths and fifths.

[swlovinist]

I DO think that the problem is quality and value. You have a flooded market right now fighting for scraps. Everyone and their mom is making a game, and now the finger is going to get pointed onto why games are making $$$$. The bottom line is that you have MANY games being made, rehashed, sequeled, and just shoveled onto consumers. There are way more choices of games this year than money, not to mention so many games that dont live up to their $50 to $60 hype. Screw blaming Gamestops and used game stores for hurting sales, that is Bull. These are the same stores that are pushing reserves and promoting new games with a ton of floorspace. There wouldnt be a problem if a sequel of a game didnt come out every year it seems(or worse if you are Guitar Hero) At some point in the near future, the market is going to have a much needed correction, and you wont be seeing me shedding a tear for the poor ol game companies.

[boatofcar]

Want to combat used game sales? Keep pushing free DLC out, a la the new Burnout. People will hesitate to sell their games if they know more (free) content is coming. You only need to promise 3 installments, say every couple or three months or so to keep your buyers happy.

[Fuyukaze]

Screw him and the horse he rode in on. If Epic pays so well the people that work there can afford to buy anything new, perhaps they should remember what their customers have to work with. Not all of us make enough to buy everything new.

I'll stick with classic games and the used market. Atleast then I know what I'm getting for my money.

[esquire]

This is the stupidest thing ever. For all their ridiculous statements, I've never heard the RIAA say anything attacking used CD sales.

Actually they did. Back in the early 90's RIAA tried to shut down used record sales. Of course they lost, or otherwise gave up. I couldn't find the exact details, but here is an interesting story on it amongst other things RIAA has tried to do over the years.

http://www.8bitjoystick.com/archives/jake_why_you_should_buy_used_cds.php

The problem I have with Game Developers making this argument is that they assume too many things for their argument. First and foremost is that the people who are buying the used games would otherwise buy the same game new at full price, especially at release. For me, unless the game is a AAA release, a collector's edition that I really want or a potential rarity or otherwise HTF game, I am not going to buy a game at release. I have far too many other games to play, and I can wait til the game drops in price to a point that I am willing to pay for it, whether used or new.

[Push Upstairs]

I hate to break it to game developers and "the industry", but there are some games that are not worth dropping $60 on.

[sonoranreptile]

Especially when those games are either very short on gameplay of full of bugs, which unfortuantely both have been pretty common lately.

[coolness432]

Especially when those games are either very short on gameplay of full of bugs, which unfortuantely both have been pretty common lately.

Exactly if the game is short or is not very good the company probably should not make very much money off of it...

[exit]

"Epic's Michael Capps: Make game ending DLC!" (http://www.bingegamer.net/2008/epics-capps-make-game-endings-dlc/)

Holy shit you've got to be kidding me. Now I've let the whole DLC thing slide, I've purchased tracks for Rockband (really the only acceptable DLC) and the expansions for Super Stardust HD, but this has to be one of the stupidest things I've ever head of. I think the market is due for another crash, or at least a borderline crash, maybe it will get some sense back into their heads.

[j_factor]

Actually they did. Back in the early 90's RIAA tried to shut down used record sales. Of course they lost, or otherwise gave up. I couldn't find the exact details, but here is an interesting story on it amongst other things RIAA has tried to do over the years.

http://www.8bitjoystick.com/archives/jake_why_you_should_buy_used_cds.php

Wow, that's interesting. Thanks for the link.

[TonyTheTiger]

If they want people to buy more games new then they have to find a way to make them cheaper. Most games devalue pretty quickly so the incentive to wait three months and buy that game for $20 instead of $60 is huge. If publishers want to increase the number of people who buy most titles new then they have no choice but to find a way to sell them brand new for no more than $35 to $40. Something comparable to new DVDs would be even more preferable.

This is all about money. And not so much from the publisher's end but from the consumer's. If I bought every game new I'd buy maybe 5 or 6 games a year. Make them cheaper or put up with used game sales. Take your pick.

[Atari 5200]

I wish these guys would STFU. This has been going on for years at flea markets, etc. Just stop whining and crying over this crap. The movie industry never did or attempt to do anything about the movie rental places. So just stfu, please. Thank you.

On the other side:

I know it's all about the money, but it may rid us of all these gamestops!

[Kid Ice]

Unlock code, ehh? Heh heh heh. I remember those. Don't make me put on my pirate hat again!

[Push Upstairs]

Pay to see the game ending?

Riiiiiiight......

[geneshifter]

The day they start charging for boss fights and end games is the day I cut off future purchases from my hobby and focus on older games only. I have a hard enough time wanting to pay $60 for some games nowadays but this would be it for me guaranteed.

[Rob2600]

If they want people to buy more games new then they have to find a way to make them cheaper.

Exactly. Big production budgets don't automatically equal big fun. I have a stack of Wii games that cost $20 to $30 each, brand new. They're good, polished games, too (Pinball Hall of Fame, Mercury Meltdown Revolution, Link's Crossbow Training, Ghost Squad, Endless Ocean, etc.).

Also, these days I'd usually rather pay $15 for a quick, challenging, fun, polished WiiWare game like World of Goo, Lostwinds, or Mega Man 9 than spend $60 on a repetitive 60 hour quest that I no longer have the time or patience to finish.

[chicnstu]

Exactly. Big production budgets don't automatically equal big fun. I have a stack of Wii games that cost $20 to $30 each, brand new. They're good, polished games, too (Pinball Hall of Fame, Mercury Meltdown Revolution, Link's Crossbow Training, Ghost Squad, Endless Ocean, etc.).

Also, these days I'd usually rather pay $15 for a quick, challenging, fun, polished WiiWare game like World of Goo, Lostwinds, or Mega Man 9 than spend $60 on a repetitive 60 hour quest that I no longer have the time or patience to finish.

That's what doesn't make sense to me, this is a classic gaming site that just happens to have a modern gaming section. Yet many posters here see those games you listed and their simple graphics and think "What a low-budget piece of crap."

Anyone that likes games from PS2 to Atari would love those games. Oh well that the Wii gets a Barbie's Horse Adventure each month, people don't have to buy them. Seeing "Tasty O's" next to "Cheerios" in a grocery store doesn't make me want to want to quit buying groceries.

[TonyTheTiger]

One reason why I think this is one of the best generations we've seen in a while is specifically because there's so much diversity. We aren't starved for inexpensive, yet good, games. The problem is that there are also a shit load of good standard priced games which if I were to buy them all brand new I'd have to sell a kidney.

So, really, if for whatever reason used games vanished that wouldn't mean the publishers would get any more of my money. I just wouldn't play those games at all or might resort to piracy. If games were cheaper out of the gate then they'd probably make more money off of me because I'd buy more games new.