Get Turbocharged!

[cyberfluxor]

I didn't see any immediate hits searching the forums, but figured some may enjoy this Turbografx-16 promo video if they haven't already seen them:
Video 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geZ7I-d8jQ0&feature=related)
Video 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59--DVnV81Q&feature=related)

They also provide an introduction to the system for those that haven't had the chance to check it out.

[zektor]

I love these! I wish I could purchase a brand new sealed cd-rom system for $149 today :)

[super nes]

Am i the only one noticing that there has been alot of Turbografx stuff recently on these forums? Cool videos though.

[c0ldb33r]

Am i the only one noticing that there has been alot of Turbografx stuff recently on these forums? Cool videos though.
Jesus, I know - it's amazing. There was nothing for the longest time and then BAM, an absolute flood of PCE and tg16 stuff. It's wonderful :)

Those videos are cheesy but fun. Thanks for posting 'em. I wanted to kill them when they slipped in a music cd and started dancing while sitting on the couch.

[zektor]

I have contributed to alot of the TG stuff in the forums lately I have to admit. This is because I kept buying lots of items for the things I *needed*, then continued to sell off the rest :) My load is getting light however. I only have a nice TurboExpress left (I actually have TWO nice expresses, but I only need one) for sale in the forums now. That may be the last for awhile :)

Actually, I decided to list my *good* cd-rom system. Gotta get some funds for my kid for the holidays :)

[j_factor]

I love how they talk about the PC Engine being successful in Japan and tout its "vast selection of titles", and then say, "We have made a commitment to offering only the best of these titles in the United States." How is "we're only bringing you a fraction of the games" a good thing?

[Press_Start]

I love how they talk about the PC Engine being successful in Japan and tout its "vast selection of titles", and then say, "We have made a commitment to offering only the best of these titles in the United States." How is "we're only bringing you a fraction of the games" a good thing?

That you can blame on Nintendo of America's anti-competitive practices. Stipulated in their contracts, 3rd party developers (i.e. Capcom and Konami) could not publish their games in the US on another system than Nintendo's. They were forced to rely on other 3rd party publishers here like Hudson and Working Designs to release their games on the Turbo Grafx. It wasn't until the early 90's that Nintendo's anti-competition clauses were deemed illegal practices but by then the damage was already done. TTI (the successor to the Turbo legacy) and the Turbo Duo were on their last leg and the years of poor advertisement and management had done them in. :shameful:

[cyberfluxor]

Am i the only one noticing that there has been alot of Turbografx stuff recently on these forums? Cool videos though.
Of course, lots of TG love on the boards. What's more interesting is that these videos were posted over 2 years ago and don't have many views, so I figured maybe not too many board members have seen them.

[stargate]

Great video. However, saddens me a bit to think how great the system could have been.

[flywheels]

Don't miss my TG16 since it never lived up to expectations, but I sure do miss my old PC Engine Duo-R console. Good times, good times.

[zektor]

I think it's funny when they compare China Warrior to NES Kung Fu Master. While there are many great games for the TG16, it really is terrible to compare the legacy that is Kung Fu Master to....well....you know what China Warrior is :) They were really betting on graphics at times back then, much like they do today!

[Bratwurst]

Those two videos are pure delicious cheese, and I love how both of them feature the dorkiest kids ever. Clueless teenagers fist pumping over losing a life, and a 9 year old with a bowl cut.

Very interesting that NEC would openly showcase PC Engine software near the end of the first video, during those years Nintendo and Sega were extremely reluctant to preview anything available in Japan. The second segment I could see confusing potential customers and even scaring them away due to all of the available peripherals and system variations.

Just recently got a Turbo Express courtesy of Zektor, and I've got two complete TG-16 systems to boot. Here's how I store my hucards: business card pocket pages in a mini date planner.

http://home.carolina.rr.com/rberube/Bratwurst/express.jpg

[j_factor]

That you can blame on Nintendo of America's anti-competitive practices. Stipulated in their contracts, 3rd party developers (i.e. Capcom and Konami) could not publish their games in the US on another system than Nintendo's. They were forced to rely on other 3rd party publishers here like Hudson and Working Designs to release their games on the Turbo Grafx. It wasn't until the early 90's that Nintendo's anti-competition clauses were deemed illegal practices but by then the damage was already done.

I know about Nintendo's practices, but how much did that really have to do with it? You're forgetting that Nintendo had similar policies in Japan. The only PC Engine game that Capcom actually published was Street Fighter II' Special Champion Edition, which came out after those policies were ended (and its lack of a TG16 release here was entirely Capcom's decision). Konami published more, but they were also late to the scene (ie they didn't have anything for PC Engine when this video was produced). You can't blame Nintendo for Snatcher not coming out here.

Japanese PC Engine software was dominated by Hudson and NEC Avenue, with games from Namco for a time (when their contract with Nintendo ran out), Taito (not sure how they got around it, but they'd been supporting SMS too), Telenet (who never made games for Nintendo), and Naxat Soft (also a non-Nintendo company). Other third parties supported the system by licensing their games to NEC or Hudson.

[c0ldb33r]

Here's how I store my hucards: business card pocket pages in a mini date planner...
Wow that's a great idea. I'm stopping at staples on the way home tonight to get some. Good job.

[Press_Start]

I know about Nintendo's practices, but how much did that really have to do with it? You're forgetting that Nintendo had similar policies in Japan. The only PC Engine game that Capcom actually published was Street Fighter II' Special Champion Edition, which came out after those policies were ended (and its lack of a TG16 release here was entirely Capcom's decision). Konami published more, but they were also late to the scene (ie they didn't have anything for PC Engine when this video was produced). You can't blame Nintendo for Snatcher not coming out here.

Hence, my point. The PCE eventually outsold the famicom at one point and with further support, they could have keep the momentum going stateside with the Turbo Grafx to a larger audience.

Lest you forgot, the Playstation's huge success was attributed by how Sony was able to get major game software companies to ally with it. If Nintendo's anti-competitive practices were to continue in the N64/PS1/SS era, Sony had to rely on non-N-affiliated companies and other unknowns and with lack of support, the PS1's success would measure half as high at best.

[GarrettCRW]

Hence, my point. The PCE eventually outsold the famicom at one point and with further support, they could have keep the momentum going stateside with the Turbo Grafx to a larger audience.

j_factor is saying that Nintendo had the same policies in play in Japan, but the PC Engine was a success. IOW, NEC mismanaged the console to its doom.

BTW, the narrator for the second video is Tom Kenny. Hello, demo tape.

[SpyHunter]

Just recently got a Turbo Express courtesy of Zektor, and I've got two complete TG-16 systems to boot. Here's how I store my hucards: business card pocket pages in a mini date planner.

http://home.carolina.rr.com/rberube/Bratwurst/express.jpg

Cool. I use the baseball card 9 pocket pages but I like your idea better.

[c0ldb33r]

Just recently got a Turbo Express courtesy of Zektor, and I've got two complete TG-16 systems to boot. Here's how I store my hucards: business card pocket pages in a mini date planner.
Do they fit in the card holder if they're in their plastic sleeve?

[Press_Start]

j_factor is saying that Nintendo had the same policies in play in Japan, but the PC Engine was a success. IOW, NEC mismanaged the console to its doom.


That I agree...to an extent.

The PC Engine's success did give software developers a reason to try the system once. With the mitigating Nintendo "leashing for non-cooperative", the developments of these games had an "all or nothing" mentality. Such a high expectancy bar, many games for PCE never came stateside as companies didn't feel it was worth another "choking" from Nintendo. Some did get around this by hiring third party publishers like Taito did with Working Designs, however it meant lower returns.

I'm not blaming Nintendo solely for the downfall of the Turbo Grafx, but they did played an extensive part. If they hadn't been so restrictive on their competition policies, maybe companies wouldn't have been so fearful to publish their product on Turbo-grafx or the Sega Master System.

[Bratwurst]

Do they fit in the card holder if they're in their plastic sleeve?

Nope, gotta slip them in nakies.

It's a very snug fit but not too tight, you still want to get pocket pages that are very soft and not rigid like baseball card protectors.

[zektor]

Nope, gotta slip them in nakies.

It's a very snug fit but not too tight, you still want to get pocket pages that are very soft and not rigid like baseball card protectors.

That is a nice idea. I previously used 9 pocket baseball card holder pages in a UltraPro binder, but the problem with this was the way the cards slid in. They could fall out easily. Do these slide in from the side (like hucard sleeves) or top in?

[Bratwurst]

That is a nice idea. I previously used 9 pocket baseball card holder pages in a UltraPro binder, but the problem with this was the way the cards slid in. They could fall out easily. Do these slide in from the side (like hucard sleeves) or top in?

They slide in from the side, I took another picture, they even have the end cutout for your thumb. Ultimately I think your baseball card box with individual sleeves is ideal for a collection as large as yours, because a complete collection would fill 31 3-pocket pages, and that would make for an awfully thick book. This is best for travel use, though I'd be paranoid to let $500 worth of games out of my sight wherever I went.

http://home.carolina.rr.com/rberube/Bratwurst/sleeve.jpg

[j_factor]

Hence, my point. The PCE eventually outsold the famicom at one point and with further support, they could have keep the momentum going stateside with the Turbo Grafx to a larger audience.

Your point is a misplaced one, as it has nothing to do with what we were just talking about, which is existing PC Engine games being held back from the US. They were all published by companies unencumbered by Nintendo. I'm no fan of Nintendo's policies but you can't blame them for PC Engine games not getting a US release. In fact, the video makes it pretty clear that it was a conscious decision on the part of NEC's US division to not release too many games. Maybe they believed that too many releases would make the system look bad.


The PC Engine's success did give software developers a reason to try the system once. With the mitigating Nintendo "leashing for non-cooperative", the developments of these games had an "all or nothing" mentality. Such a high expectancy bar, many games for PCE never came stateside as companies didn't feel it was worth another "choking" from Nintendo. Some did get around this by hiring third party publishers like Taito did with Working Designs, however it meant lower returns.

I'm not blaming Nintendo solely for the downfall of the Turbo Grafx, but they did played an extensive part. If they hadn't been so restrictive on their competition policies, maybe companies wouldn't have been so fearful to publish their product on Turbo-grafx or the Sega Master System.

There was no "choking". Companies weren't fearful of publishing their products elsewhere, they were contractually obligated not to. They often got around this by licensing their games out to other publishers, but that was the case in both Japan and the US. Some companies went that route even if they weren't under contract with Nintendo (Falcom for example), I guess due to limited resources or something.

[zektor]

These contractual obligations were precisely the reason the Sega Master System didn't gain ground here in the States as it did in Europe. I couldn't even imagine what the videogame industry would be had Sega been able to release all of the awesome titles they were "allowed" to in Europe. We may have seen a completely different gaming world...perhaps even with Sega reigning supreme right now. They had the superior hardware, and they DID have the games. They just didn't have the RIGHTS to release them here. Very sad indeed.

But, in Nintendo's defense, it was a solid business strategy. They took it first and they got away with it...crippling the rest. They really are where they are today largely because of that.

[Press_Start]

There was no "choking". Companies weren't fearful of publishing their products elsewhere, they were contractually obligated not to. They often got around this by licensing their games out to other publishers, but that was the case in both Japan and the US.

I doubt it. Nintendo wouldn't allow such acts to go unpunished. I'm sure Tecmo, Namco, and whoever associated with big-N felt the burn for going behind their backs. Whether it was limiting the number of releases, disapproving games for their next-gen system, or stopped doing business altogether. Taking a look at the releases for SNES for Tecmo, Namco, and Data East, the frequency rapidly increased after Nintendo's usurping was condoned. By the time that happened, the damage was done.

It's just like zektor said, they took all the best pickings and left NEC/Hudson, Sega, and others to fend for the scraps. Partly why Turbo-Grafx ended in the first place.

[zektor]

Don't get me wrong, there are other issues that caused NEC's system to ultimately fail here:

Release Time:

The PC-Engine was released in Japan in '87. This could have (and should have) been a worldwide release. If we had the likes of the PC-Engine at that time, we would have been mesmerized. The systems we had at that time couldn't touch the power of the PC-Engine. Had it arrived HERE in 1987 I think it would have been a hit. Much more powerful than anything that we had, and companies could have simply ported games in English (many they didn't even have to!) and really built a solid base for the console in the states.

Name:

Ok, so we deal with the fact that the TG16 came to us a little too late. But the name change was an issue too. The name "Turbografx SIXTEEN" more than gave us the idea that we were dealing with 16-bit power. I recall reading articles and talking with friends at the time that were just completely bashing it. "It's not even 16-bit!" is what was heard all over the place. The truth that it really was an 8-bit system at heart was bound to surface sooner or later, and when the American people found out they had a field day with it. The name also ties into the release time in that if it were released back in '87 I do not think NEC would have felt compelled to change the name so drastically.

Games:

It ultimately all comes down to the game. Sure, there were some great TG16 games released here. I have the entire set, and I love most of them. I am one of the biggest TG16 fans you will find. But, there just weren't enough games. Not by a long shot. I am not sure exactly what the reason was (if it was the infamous Nintendo monopoly or poor decisions on the part of NEC and affiliates), but I do believe that if we were privileged with what Japan received, the system would have made a MUCH larger impact.

[Press_Start]

Don't get me wrong, there are other issues that caused NEC's system to ultimately fail here:

Release Time:

The PC-Engine was released in Japan in '87. This could have (and should have) been a worldwide release. If we had the likes of the PC-Engine at that time, we would have been mesmerized. The systems we had at that time couldn't touch the power of the PC-Engine. Had it arrived HERE in 1987 I think it would have been a hit. Much more powerful than anything that we had, and companies could have simply ported games in English (many they didn't even have to!) and really built a solid base for the console in the states.

The fault lied with NEC by waiting one year from what I heard was used to "redesign" the system. Should have added a second controller port, at least this way, people didn't have waste extra money for the Turbo Tap. Funny thing is more of their future games (pertaining Bomberman and most shooters) had the option playing with a second player. Anyway, they lost their advantage and having to contend with the Genesis from the get-go.



Name:

Ok, so we deal with the fact that the TG16 came to us a little too late. But the name change was an issue too. The name "Turbografx SIXTEEN" more than gave us the idea that we were dealing with 16-bit power. I recall reading articles and talking with friends at the time that were just completely bashing it. "It's not even 16-bit!" is what was heard all over the place. The truth that it really was an 8-bit system at heart was bound to surface sooner or later, and when the American people found out they had a field day with it. The name also ties into the release time in that if it were released back in '87 I do not think NEC would have felt compelled to change the name so drastically.

Known TG at the core was an 8-bit machine. Though, it was a combination of two 8-bit CPU producing 16-bit graphics. Technically, it can process 16-bits, just not on the same chip. Never realized so many made a big damn fuss about it. I always figured those who had one didn't really care as long as the games were good or those who did haven't it, be having their Genesis vs Super NES standoff.



Games:

It ultimately all comes down to the game. Sure, there were some great TG16 games released here. I have the entire set, and I love most of them. I am one of the biggest TG16 fans you will find. But, there just weren't enough games. Not by a long shot. I am not sure exactly what the reason was (if it was the infamous Nintendo monopoly or poor decisions on the part of NEC and affiliates), but I do believe that if we were privileged with what Japan received, the system would have made a MUCH larger impact.

In the back of my mind, I've pondered what would have happen if PCE/TG had Capcom's, Konami's, and all other companies' support from Day 1. Would NEC been more successful? Maybe. Would major titles like Castlevania and Megaman bring stateside attention to the system? Absolutely! Look at Castlevania Dracula X Chronicles for the PSP, people have bought it just to play Castlevania and the same can be said for Rondo X Blood or Street Fighter II CE. These eye-catcher had a good chance in breathing life back into Turbo, but we'll never know now.

[j_factor]

I doubt it. Nintendo wouldn't allow such acts to go unpunished.

Really? Capcom licensed a pretty large number of games to Sega and NEC, including arcade conversions that they didn't bother making for Nintendo's system at all. In what way was Capcom punished?

[c0ldb33r]

Known TG at the core was an 8-bit machine. Though, it was a combination of two 8-bit CPU producing 16-bit graphics. Technically, it can process 16-bits, just not on the same chip.
IIRC it had an 8 bit CPU and a 16 bit video card.

[Press_Start]

Really? Capcom licensed a pretty large number of games to Sega and NEC, including arcade conversions that they didn't bother making for Nintendo's system at all. In what way was Capcom punished?

Strider, Mercs, Buster Bros, Forgotten Worlds, all were arcade ports. Nintendo didn't have much love for the arcade market having a niche on console market and all. As long as Capcom and Konami was feeding the big-N exclusive console titles ONLY for its system (i.e. Castlevania and Megaman) and don't opt to share with others, their punishment were minimal at worst.


IIRC it had an 8 bit CPU and a 16 bit video card.

Maybe, but I still can't see ONE 8-bit processor handing a 16-bit video card. I need to look into this matter further.

[zektor]

He is right (actually the 8 Bit CPU is working with a DUAL GP setup):

* CPU: 8-bit HuC6280A, a modified 65SC02 (a separate branch from the 65C02, of the original 6502) running at 1.79 or 7.16 MHz (switchable by software). Features integrated bankswitching hardware (driving a 21-bit external address bus from a 6502-compatible 16-bit address bus), an integrated general-purpose I/O port, a timer, block transfer instructions, and dedicated move instructions for communicating with the HuC6270A VDC.

* GPU: A dual graphics processor setup. One 16-bit HuC6260 Video Color Encoder (VCE), and one 16-bit HuC6270A Video Display Controller (VDC). The HuC6270A featured Port-based I/O similar to the TMS99xx VDP family.

[tomaitheous]

I still can't see ONE 8-bit processor handing a 16-bit video card.

You can't? Maybe you should take the cover off the system then and get a better view <_<