Xbox 360 "Jasper" boards finally hit stores

[XYXZYZ]

http://kotaku.com/5099691/jasper-360-consoles-hit-the-market

http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=668038

This guy still hasn't cracked it open, but everyone seems to agree that this one is the real deal.

For the uninitiated, "Jasper" is the new Xbox 360 build with the 65nm GPU that runs cooler and quieter and is speculated to reduce RRoD failures.

(EDIT here's a new thread where he's opened it and confirmed that it's a Jasper. There's even a sticker on the board that says "Jasper 1weeks run".)
http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=668104

[roushimsx]

Sadly, the 360 that I (finally) picked up today was not a Jasper. Oh well.

[MegaDrive20XX]

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2007/10/prospectorchip.jpg

[heybtbm]

The most interesting comment from the Kotaku article...


It's funny because people keep thinking these chip revisions are going to make the hardware more stable and they're not. Their sole purpose is to save Microsoft money in production costs. Smaller chipsets=fewer materials=more $$$ is MS's pocket.

The amount of heat the CPU and GPU produce are the least of your troubles folks, there many more issues with the 360's design and they're all far more severe. Let's start with the thermal paste. For those unfamiliar, thermal paste is what's used to transfer heat between the GPU and CPU to their respective heatsinks. The thermal paste that MS uses in the 360 is cheap crap that bakes into cement after a few hundred hours of use. This issue could be easily fixed if MS would just use a more effective paste like Arctic Silver 5 but that would drive production costs up ever so slightly and we can't have that.

Next problem: They mounted the disc drive on the GPU heatsink. Seriously MS? What the hell? That is the worst design idea ever, the heatsink's purpose is to pull heat off the GPU so a fan can blow air over it which will whisk it away out of the system. The worst thing you could do there is mount one of the hottest running components in the system directly on top of that. You're just asking to create a hotspot.
Problem 3: Air flow. Worst designed system for airflow ever. There are two primary intake fans on the 360. One is covered up by the harddrive. The other can't pull air in if the system is standing vertically. If you don't lay the system flat it has to rely on the incredibly tiny vents on the side of the system to pull all the air into the system. Beyond that the interior of the system does not allow for optimal airflow. It's awful. Compare the guts of a PS3 and a 360 if you ever get the chance (Google). The PS3's innards look like they were well planned out and intelligently placed. The 360 is a clusterfuck that looks like MS just schlepped all the components in and called it good.

Final problem, and by far the worst: The X-Clamps. Why these are still present I don't know. Essentially for those who don't know the X-Clamps are two X shaped clamps on the bottom of the motherboard that hold the heatsinks in place. Their fatal flaw? They warp under intense heat. That warping bends the motherboard. That bending breaks solder connections. The breaking produces the RRoD. These clamps could easily be replaced with screws, washers, and nuts. In fact many console modders have done just that and found in combination with an application of Artic Silver 5 to the CPU and GPU it fixed a red ringed console. So why these are still in use I don't know. What I do know is they are the 360's main problem.

Don't get me wrong, I love my 360, it is fantastic. But it's a terribly designed piece of hardware and it's going to take a hell of a lot more than a chipset revision to fix it; it's going to take a complete design overhaul on the level of the PS2 to the PS2 Slim.

[JLukas]

Too bad these weren't available in time for the Black Friday deals.

[kingpong]

The most interesting comment from the Kotaku article...

Interesting only in that it comes from someone who likes to think he knows what he's talking about but doesn't really quite get it. Anyone who touts Artic Silver 5 these days is years behind the times.

[eugenek]

Interesting only in that it comes from someone who likes to think he knows what he's talking about but doesn't really quite get it. Anyone who touts Artic Silver 5 these days is years behind the times.

Ha, very true. IC Diamond 7 FTW.

The underlying design flaws are valid points, but a cooler running GPU can't hurt anything.

[otaku]

I would like to get a new 360 since mine has RROD once and now has disc drive issues. Disc repair would be 100 and I need a bigger HD for downloads thats another 100. Might as well buy a new system

[Jorpho]

Are broken solder connections due to warping of the motherboard really the most common causes of RRoDs?

[XYXZYZ]

Are broken solder connections due to warping of the motherboard really the most common causes of RRoDs?

I haven't heard of anything else, maybe the heat is damaging the processor itself?

[roushimsx]

Interesting only in that it comes from someone who likes to think he knows what he's talking about but doesn't really quite get it. Anyone who touts Artic Silver 5 these days is years behind the times.
Though Arctic Silver 5 is still an evolutionary leap beyond what they're currently using.

[unwinddesign]

Interesting only in that it comes from someone who likes to think he knows what he's talking about but doesn't really quite get it. Anyone who touts Artic Silver 5 these days is years behind the times.

I've used Arctic Silver 5 on my three computer builds, and I've never had any problems with the CPU. Stock heatsinks on all of them. SLI 8800 GTs + no fans in my current build. No overheating problems, ever.

Arctic Silver 5 used to be the name du jour, so it's not really surprising that he dropped it. Not everyone keeps up with what thermal compound is #1 in PC building. Arctic Silver 5 would be more than sufficient.

[RyanMurf]

I have a Jasper board and Its man. date is Sept. 08 so these should have been available on black friday

[XYXZYZ]

I have a Jasper board and Its man. date is Sept. 08 so these should have been available on black friday

What's the lot #? I've read that 843X can be Falcons or Jaspers, but I saw one guy who had lot # 849, which was also a Jasper.

[kedawa]

I would like to get a new 360 since mine has RROD once and now has disc drive issues. Disc repair would be 100 and I need a bigger HD for downloads thats another 100. Might as well buy a new system
$100 to repair a $10 part is highway robbery.
Just force a RRoD and get a replacement.

[heybtbm]

Just force a RRoD and get a replacement.

Forcing a RRoD is unnecessary. To those who haven't figured it out yet, let me clarify...

YOU ALWAYS HAVE THE RROD WHEN CALLING MICROSOFT FOR REPAIR ISSUES. Disc drive shot? RRoD. Strange rattling noise? RRoD. Video issues? RRoD.

MS doesn't check what the problem is. If you call and claim your 360 has the RRoD, they will replace it no questions asked. When your unit arrives in TX, all they do is receive your 360 and immediately ship out a refurbished unit. It wasn't always like this, but in the last year or so I think they just went into triage mode. Serves them right IMO.

[kedawa]

That makes sense. RRoD can also be an intermittent problem, so testing it doesn't necessarily prove that the problem isn't real.

[The 1 2 P]

So the new Jasper boards reduce the RROD or have little effect?

[XYXZYZ]

So the new Jasper boards reduce the RROD or have little effect?

We don't really know yet. As previously stated, RRoD failures are due to the GPU overheating, and the new GPU in the Jaspers run much cooler; read the testimonials in the thread linked in the first post. But only time will tell if the RRoD issue is actually solved.

[Jorpho]

We don't really know yet. As previously stated, RRoD failures are due to the GPU overheating, and the new GPU in the Jaspers run much cooler; read the testimonials in the thread linked in the first post. But only time will tell if the RRoD issue is actually solved.So, I guess it's not the solder connections breaking due to warping, then.

[ProgrammingAce]

Are broken solder connections due to warping of the motherboard really the most common causes of RRoDs?

Almost entirely.

and microsoft had an outside vendor completely redesign the motherboards and manufacturing process, btw...

Also, the system logs all major errors. They know if you've ever had a red ring or not. Luckly most systems have triggered one at some point

[s1lence]

What about the E-74 error? That seems to be the new RRoD.

[The 1 2 P]

I'm getting an Arcade soon(I already have a 120 gb hard drive) and hopefully it has the Jasper chip in it.

[eugenek]

I have a Jasper board and Its man. date is Sept. 08 so these should have been available on black friday

How is that possible? The earliest Jasper is, as far as we can tell, 43rd week of 2008, and not even all of those. That's a production date well into October.

Also, I don't know who claimed to have an 849 system, but that's gotta be BS. A console produced last week can't possibly be in the retail channel already.

[ProgrammingAce]

What about the E-74 error? That seems to be the new RRoD.

Blown GPU. Usually a bad solder joint. Same result as a RRoD

[XYXZYZ]

How is that possible? The earliest Jasper is, as far as we can tell, 43rd week of 2008, and not even all of those. That's a production date well into October.

Also, I don't know who claimed to have an 849 system, but that's gotta be BS. A console produced last week can't possibly be in the retail channel already.

It's discussed here, and the guy bought it in England. He double checked and it does indeed say 849X.

http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=668138

[PapaStu]

Yes but that dude is an idiot. He's going to try and transfer stuff from his first 120GB system to his other 120GB system. What would the point of that be? I didn't think that one could move the 120GB stuff to another drive once it was moved at least in how I understood the HD transfer process.

[ProgrammingAce]

Yes but that dude is an idiot. He's going to try and transfer stuff from his first 120GB system to his other 120GB system. What would the point of that be? I didn't think that one could move the 120GB stuff to another drive once it was moved at least in how I understood the HD transfer process.

I can't say i've ever tried it, but i don't think you can either

[j_factor]

So... how can you tell if a 360 is a Jasper or not? They kind of explained it, but I don't really get it... and the pics are gone. Someone explain it to me like I'm 5.

[PapaStu]

Without opening it, it involves looking at the power adaptor and the serial #. The Jasper boards can run on 150w not 200w.

Eh I found the mirrored pics since Photobucket took the dump due to the bandwith explosion.

http://pictures.xbox-scene.com/xbox360/jasper/

[XYXZYZ]

So... how can you tell if a 360 is a Jasper or not? They kind of explained it, but I don't really get it... and the pics are gone. Someone explain it to me like I'm 5.

The way I understand it, you can tell by the label on the box. If it says Lot# 843X or higher, team FDOU, with a manufacturing date of 2008-10-23 or later, it should be a Jasper. (See the date by peering into the hole for the console's SN, look above the barcode.)

And if you already have it out of the box, the label for power requirements will say 12.1A instead of 14A. And the power supply will be 150W, with a new connector that can't be plugged into an older model 360.

[The 1 2 P]

I just read OXM'x article on Jasper boards. They opened up a Jasper and Xenon to compare differences. Their final input was:

Lot Number(on box next to upc code): Jaspers are 0844 or higher but there are some 0843 Jaspers too

Build Date(above the serial number on the console): Jaspers are from November 2008 and later. However, their test model had a build date of 10/14(October 2008). On the motherboard it's labeled "Jasper 1 weeks run" so it was most likely an early test batch.

Power Brick: Heres where we will have some discrepencies. Their initial indication was: 203W=Xenon, 175W=Falcon, 150W=Jasper. While having 150W is a pretty safe bet that you have a Jasper, you could also have one at 175W(like I do). Their guess was that Microsoft had left over power bricks from the Falcon chip models and decided to incorporate them into the earliest batches of Jasper models.

Number Designation: On the back of your console above the words "made in China" will be either 16,5A(Xenon), 14,2A(Falcon) or 12,1A(Jasper).

Time will only tell how much longer the Jaspers last. However, there is a rumor of one final revision: "the Valhalla". The article states it's due in the fall and will combine the CPU and GPU on a single 45nm chip. Thats cool and all but I really just want my Jasper to live a nice long productive life and not retire until 2030 or later.

[heybtbm]

I really just want my Jasper to live a nice long productive life and not retire until 2030 or later.

When the next Xbox is released and the 360 goes down to $100 - $150, I'm just going to buy 10 or so. That way I should be covered. I've invested way too much $$$ to possibly be unable to play my games. Backwards compatibility is unlikely, so the stockpile plan just might work.

[The 1 2 P]

Backwards compatibility is unlikely.

They absolutely better make the next Xbox bc. Thats one of the reasons why I just got a 360 last month instead of a year ago. I want to be able to keep playing my old games. I also want to be able to transfer my saved data from my old games so I don't have to play thru everything on the new system to unlock stuff I already unlocked. This is one thing that Sony has consistantly done right with their systems: making them bc and making sure you can transfer all your old saved data to the new system.

[XYXZYZ]

I want to be able to keep playing my old games. I also want to be able to transfer my saved data from my old games so I don't have to play thru everything on the new system to unlock stuff I already unlocked.


Why don't you just keep the old system and use it?

[eugenek]

When the next Xbox is released and the 360 goes down to $100 - $150, I'm just going to buy 10 or so. That way I should be covered. I've invested way too much $$$ to possibly be unable to play my games. Backwards compatibility is unlikely, so the stockpile plan just might work.

I love how you plan to reward Microsoft for putting out a shitty console.

[Gentlegamer]

I just bought an Elite with manufacture date of 10-31-08, and it is a Falcon (14,2A). I guess it takes a while to use up all the Falcon boards in each of the SKUs.

[eugenek]

I just bought an Elite with manufacture date of 10-31-08, and it is a Falcon (14,2A). I guess it takes a while to use up all the Falcon boards in each of the SKUs.

Yeah, Elite turnover is slow. Now that I think about it, has there been a single confirmed Elite Jasper? I haven't heard of one...

[heybtbm]

I love how you plan to reward Microsoft for putting out a shitty console.


...because MS really gives a shit about that $1000, right? It's not my battle. I just buy games to have fun. If I have to buy extra consoles to play these games for the next 30 years, so be it.

[eugenek]

...because MS really gives a shit about that $1000, right? It's not my battle. I just buy games to have fun. If I have to buy extra consoles to play these games for the next 30 years, so be it.

Now that is dedication. But I'm sure somebody will have emulated the 360 by 2039.

[The 1 2 P]

Why don't you just keep the old system and use it?

Because the 360 isn't exactly a "keeper" system considering it's reliability issues. Any other system and I would be fine with holding on but holding on to the 360 may not be enough.

[XYXZYZ]

Because the 360 isn't exactly a "keeper" system considering it's reliability issues. Any other system and I would be fine with holding on but holding on to the 360 may not be enough.

Ah, that's true. Hopefully these Jasper things will end up with a better performance record than their predecessors.

[Greg2600]

A new Xbox? Way too early for that. What technical advances would need even more of a system? The game programmers I think are getting close to their peak with what they can do without having to spend 10 years developing a game.

As for the 360's reliability, it's the reason I did not buy one. Also don't have an HDTV in my room to make proper use of it. Any analysis on the "Jasper's" reliability in case I change my mind?

[The 1 2 P]

Any analysis on the "Jasper's" reliability in case I change my mind?

We're going to have to wait a good three plus years before we can give you a legitimate answer.