EMA Suggests Point-Of-Sale Game Activation To Fight Piracy [Slashdot]

[DP ServBot]

Gamasutra reports on a set of standards (PDF) published by the Entertainment Merchants Association to promote the use of technology that would "disable" games and DVDs until they are activated when purchased. "The effort is codenamed 'Project Lazarus,' and the EMA says it's assembled a consortium of retailers, home video companies and video game publishers to see how easily such 'benefit denial technology' could be implemented, and to evaluate possible cost-benefit analyses. The initiative is similar to security tags used in clothing retail that spill ink on garments if they're forcibly removed, thereby destroying the item. In such a situation, shoplifting is discouraged by implementing a solution that only the retailer can remove at the point of sale."http://games.slashdot.org/slashdot-it.pl?from=rss&op=image&style=h0&sid=08/12/02/0416231 (http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/12/02/0416231&from=rss)
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[Drifter 2000]

How exactly would something like this stop piracy? Once someone buys the game they could go home and throw it up on the internet. This is ignoring the fact that a lot of recent titles (Spore) seem to have leaked right out of the development studios themselves.

[Oobgarm]

Could be something far off in the future, but I don't think current games and tech would benefit from it. A system would have to connect to the net to verify a validation code (or said code is printed on the receipt) before it ran the game.

I personally think it's a great idea. There are some pricey tax software programs currently on the market that do exactly this. Look at it like a pre-paid phone minutes card or an iTunes card-no value until activated at register.

Though, I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that it would be cracked using firmware exploits or something similar on the system side. It would curtail point-of-sale theft, but software piracy would continue.

[esquire]

This sounds like more of an effort to prevent resale (Gamestop) rather than piracy. With all the talk recently (See Epic and Bungie rants), I would not be surprised if some console games go the way of Steam, whereby you need an online activation code, or need to call and register for one over the phone. Of course this would suck and I am utterly against such a thing.

[kedawa]

Nothing will stop piracy. Ever.
This is just one more headache for paying customers to have to deal with.

[nintendoeats]

Great. just great. something else to go wrong. This is only going to encourage piracy, don't people get that? Even if the goal is to prevent resale or theft, the result will be less sales all around. Why do game companies feel the need to shit on us all the time? yah, they make great games, but isn't that enough for them? do they have to have our frustration as well as our money?

[XYXZYZ]

This sounds great! But I wish they would be more thorough; I think that you should have not only point of sale activation, but also when you buy it, it only stays active for a limited time. That way, you would have to call the publisher and buy the game again in order to play it. See, even if it's stolen you'd have to pay for it eventually. Every game should require a monthly fee. Even sudoku on the DS or those Pac Man TV games.

And even better, consoles should come equipped with fingerprint scanning technology. When you play a game, your fingerprint data must match the code of the fingerprint that was scanned and locked to that copy when you bought it. And there would be periodic checks throughout the game in addition to when you load the game in the first place. This would be a great way to stop reselling, and that will allow game companies to focus on higher quality products and provide a better experience for us, the consumer. :drinking:

[XYXZYZ]

Why do game companies feel the need to shit on us all the time? yah, they make great games, but isn't that enough for them? do they have to have our frustration as well as our money?

I barely know what I'm talking about here, but I think it's because the shareholders want it, and the shareholders don't know a damn thing about piracy or care about screwing the paying customer.

[nintendoeats]

thanks XYXZYZ, youv'e just exashurbated my anger. I know your being sarcastic but that last part...aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!

[The 1 2 P]

I think on paper it's a fairly good idea. However, getting it properly implemented is another thing entirely. And even if everything goes smoothly, someone who pays for it could easily make bootlegs to give to their friends or sell online. Like others have already said(and to paraphrase in my own way) boredom+ignorance+idiot(though technically sound idiot)=piracy forever:(

[Push Upstairs]

Another hoop I, the *paying* customer, have to jump through to play the game I paid for.

We'll see how good this works the first time some minimum wage worker forgets to activate it and ('tis the season) come xmas day, the game doesn't work.

[Press_Start]

First, they want a "profit" for used games and now we have to ASK permission to play them?! I swear these companies are becoming more and more greedy like the music industry and their RIAA hounds. What's next? Coin-op consoles?

[Rob2600]

What's next? Coin-op consoles?

That would be funny. I imagine someone coming to my apartment every week to collect the quarters.

[Half Japanese]

I personally think it's a great idea.

Please elaborate on how this is in any way a great idea. It's another pointless hurdle for paying customers, and the annoyance of people who are paying for your product should always be of more concern than speedbumping people who haven't been buying your product in the first place. I also have no doubt that should this practice come to pass that it will eventually be used to curb or outright prevent the sales of used games; a business developers have made no secret of acknowledging that they despise.

I remember reading on Joystiq a while back that many developers are now including one-time use download cards as value-adds in their new product, giving incentive to buy a new copy as opposed to a used one (and when the difference at Gamestop is $5, who wouldn't just buy a new one?). This is a much more respectable approach, but they should also offer the content unlocked by the download card as DLC, so they're still seeing a few bucks on used game sales from players who want that extra content. On the other hand, I'd hate to see this strategy work as a corporate dick move, similar to EA's shenanigans with the last Battlefield game.

[Push Upstairs]

Its amazing how "fighting piracy" sounds more like "fleecing paying customers for all they got".

[Oobgarm]

Please elaborate on how this is in any way a great idea.

Simply, it reduces point-of-sale theft. No way it would ever stop piracy, as nothing ever does.

Every game, when purchased, has a unique ID code activated. The console, which *should* be online(which is why this wouldn't be feasible for a long time, if ever) would verify the code and play the game, storing the code for future use. If the game was traded to a friend or retail store, the code would still be active and usable since the game was actually purchased at retail.

It sounds like a pain in the ass, but retail activation takes like 5-10 seconds, and console makers could make verification seamless and virtually invisible to the player.

GameStop would still be able to continue business, but it would take them longer to process a trade since they'd have to verify each game. But then they would at least know the games they're taking aren't stolen from a store.

If done right, it would work with little to no noticeable change for the consumer. Like 1 2 P said, it looks good on paper, but it's all about implementation.

[Berserker]

Going over the actual "Lazarus Standards" (http://www.entmerch.org/lazarus_standards.pdf), a few things in particular stand out. Firstly, repeated mention of a "database", which I'm assuming is meant to be a centralized one, that is to be "maintained at both store and enterprise level" which, combined with what's listed under "Valuable Additions" as goals of establishing both a "Unique ID" and "Merchant identifier", seem to lay a fairly clear foundation for a potentially lucrative data-mining operation; especially if payment is done by check or credit/debit card, so that more personally-identifying information could be extracted and paired with it.

Also, under "Minimum Threshold Requirements" is listed the point that they must have the "Ability to deactivate and reactivate" games at will. Now, that requirement by itself is a bit too open-ended to know exactly how they'd go about implementing that, but depending on how closely they would be collaborating with the software publishers themselves, this point could potentially have some serious implications. For instance, if they teamed up with the publisher of a particular game and came up with a way to deactivate and reactivate your game over the internet, that's basically an open-door to be held at ransom. "We noticed that you're not doing what we want lately, so we're going to deactivate your game. When you do what we want/pay us what we want, then we might reactivate your game."

Overall, it doesn't seem like a very exciting prospect for the consumer.

[nintendoeats]

Do gamestop employees have a union? can they go on striek to prevent this system being implemented?

[XYXZYZ]

A database? So they're going to have a profile on you, what kind of games you like, when and where you buy them, and how often? And they can cross reference, say "People who bought ABC also bought XYZ" so they'll send you advertising (through the console) for XYZ in case you don't have it yet. I wonder what else they can do with a profile- "XYXZYZ only buys games that feature an abundance of bouncy breasted female characters, buys them at 3:00 AM at Wal-Mart, so he's definitely single and perhaps a dope fiend. Let's turn that data over to the Marine recruiters." and then I'll get a call from Col. Murdoch saying "Son, I understand you don't have much to live for, and we need all the help we can get fighting Iran and Pakistan and Russia, and whoever else the CIA has equipped to fight us in WWIII. Report for your physical on Monday!" And they can also sell that data to drug companies, civil engineers and junk food distributors. :eek 2:

[Oobgarm]

Oof. That extra stuff bites. I was just going on the basic principle of it and didn't really look deeply into it.

[Porksta]

I don't see how this is bad, or can cause a headache for anyone. Here is this new plan would work:

You go to a store and buy the game.

There, you are done. What's so bad about that?

[nintendoeats]

I don't see how this is bad, or can cause a headache for anyone. Here is this new plan would work:

You go to a store and buy the game.

There, you are done. What's so bad about that?

You go to the store. you buy a game. it works. 24 hours later the DRM gets messed up and you have a 60 dollar piece of plastic.

[icbrkr]

You go to the store. you buy a game. it works. 24 hours later the DRM gets messed up and you have a 60 dollar piece of plastic.

Or the servers go down. Or the company goes out of business and you have a collection of non-playable coasters.

[Mr Mort]

HELL NO.

If I'm paying $60+ for a game, I don't want anyone else to have the ability to grant and/or deny my access to the game.

You buy a game, bring it home, pop it in your console, and it starts. It should always be that simple, no authentication, no internet connection, no codes, no bullshit. Don't make it harder for me to play a video game, because if you do, I will stop buying them. Gaming is supposed to be a fun recreational activity, since when do I need proper authentication and clearance to do that? We're not talking about classified government files here, we're talking about a video game that the consumer is BUYING. The harder and more convoluded developers/publishers make it to actually play a game, the less people will buy them. I think it will actually encourage piracy in some instances.

I already have issues with Xbox Live Arcade games requiring you to be online in order to play them, and if it gets any worse than that, I absolutely will show my distaste by not buying their product, and that goes for anyone who even tries to pull any more authentication crap.

[Fuyukaze]

Lots of good points being made on theft at the store, but nothing on how it'll prevent piracy. If this idea ever goes into pratice, that'll be the time I stop buying new games at all. Something tells me I'm not alone in this feeling either. Plenty of classic games to be had as there is, I could live without new systems easy.

[Porksta]

You buy a game, bring it home, pop it in your console, and it starts. It should always be that simple, no authentication, no internet connection, no codes, no bullshit.

This is exactly how it is planned to work. Like I said in my description, all you do is buy the game as normal. Then you go home and play it. That's it. There is no online authenticating. If the company goes under, you won't lose the rights to play the game.

[Push Upstairs]

Well, can't you do that *NOW* without having to worry about some point-of-sale nonsense?

[nintendoeats]

Lots of good points being made on theft at the store, but nothing on how it'll prevent piracy. If this idea ever goes into pratice, that'll be the time I stop buying new games at all. Something tells me I'm not alone in this feeling either. Plenty of classic games to be had as there is, I could live without new systems easy.

Yeah, this would give me a chance to finally finish Super Metroid.

[XYXZYZ]

Lots of good points being made on theft at the store, but nothing on how it'll prevent piracy. If this idea ever goes into pratice, that'll be the time I stop buying new games at all. Something tells me I'm not alone in this feeling either. Plenty of classic games to be had as there is, I could live without new systems easy.

Piracy? Well... I guess when you play the game it'll go online and try to match registered authenticity codes and whatnot. So all we need is for some Chinese guy to make a modchip that disables the "phone home" instruction, and patch the ISO when you burn the game. But then again the new consoles are pretty good about detecting modchips with all their online activity.

Is store theft really a problem? I thought the "keep the discs behind the counter" thing was working out well enough.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Do gamestop employees have a union? can they go on striek to prevent this system being implemented?

Gamestop employees, PLEASE SAVE US! ROFL

Oh, your on break smoking a bowl by the dumpsters? That's ok, this is important, we can wait for you to finish.

I'm sure they'd save themselves from their own plight (constant threat of termination if their numbers are low, off-clock hours ect.) before worrying too much about their customers. We are free from that crap at least. :)

[Iron Draggon]

Lots of good points being made on theft at the store, but nothing on how it'll prevent piracy. If this idea ever goes into pratice, that'll be the time I stop buying new games at all. Something tells me I'm not alone in this feeling either. Plenty of classic games to be had as there is, I could live without new systems easy.


Yeah, this would give me a chance to finally finish Super Metroid.

you know, I just might join you guys in that revolt... provided all my sequels are maxed out, so I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything by stopping...

[CosmicMonkey]

XYXZYZ - Your posts in this thread are absolute quality.

But really, doesn't everyone see how this is all going? ID Cards, the Set-top-box dream (via games consoles) and mobile phones. It all boils down to one thing: absolute total control.

On the surface, it's all good: you sit on your sofa and buy your games directly via your PlayStation/Xbox/SuperWiiCube. Game is paid for immediately and 20 minutes later you have a new game sat on your console. Smashing, and the world at large loves things that are nice and convenient. It'll totally wipe out piracy and second hand game sales too, all in one go.

Now, if the developers can sell their games directly, it should mean cheaper games. No publishers, no discs to be pressed or manuals/covers to be printed. So even if the end product is cheaper, the developers should still see more money than normal, which in theory means happy coders = better games. And really, if brand new games are cheaper and I can get a downloadable game like WipEout HD for £13 then there's no need for piracy or second hand sales.

However, as XYXZYZ as pointed out, there's a very dark side to all of this. I'll spare you my rants on (supposed) conspiracy theories about the Illuminati/International Bankers (as they don't exist, and I'm just maaaaad), but this really isn't going to end well.

[Icarus Moonsight]

I don't know about y'all, but I always take the word of a monkey in a diaper toting an Uzi very seriously. LOL

I wonder. Has RFID ever been considered for this type of protection system? It could work. But, then again. No real benefit because those with the knowledge can just spoof the signal or bypass it completely.

I think game companies are just going to have to accept some percentage of piracy as unpreventable (it's not a real loss anyway, people who habitually pirate won't buy the legitimate item instead, they'd just go and get something else they think they want - for free) or they [game co's] will end up fighting windmills (DRM anyone?). Kinda like the RIAA and MPAA has been doing since Napster got sacked.

Take a DVD movie for example. I buy it in a store and bring it home to watch. I have to sit through the "Piracy IS stealing!" Bullshit cause they coded it to be unskipable. If I say, dl'ed the torrent there's no BS. Just straight to the opening. So, tell me, why am I paying to be hassled and being suggested to that I might be a thief or worse still? Anti-piracy measures just makes piracy more prevelant. They actually drive some people into piracy.

[Rob2600]

What if video games went back to being released on cartridges or small discs like the GameCube?

[XYXZYZ]

XYXZYZ - Your posts in this thread are absolute quality.

There's a first time for everything right?



I'll spare you my rants on (supposed) conspiracy theories about the Illuminati/International Bankers (as they don't exist, and I'm just maaaaad), but this really isn't going to end well.

Well...

Bill Gates (XBOX) has exclusive dining events, inviting several CFR members (http://www.parascope.com/articles/0597/gates2.htm). His wife is a member of the Bilderburg Group. He oversees a very influential social network. I know everyone thinks this is crazy, but I don't really reject the idea that Xbox Live is a big data gathering operation and that the current popularity of war games is "conditioning". The US military is starting to work closely with the game developers now, aren't they? Think about how much Microsoft knows about the average teenagers virtual killing habits. Next will have "Call of Duty 6 - Domestic Protest Control" with subliminal recruitment tactics. Obama was saying something about a massive domestic security force for the "unpopular decisions" he warned us about, didn't he?


You can post the picture of the tin foil hat guy now.

[XYXZYZ]

What if video games went back to being released on cartridges or small discs like the GameCube?

If they went to cartridges I imagine the ROMs would cost a fortune. But I think eventually discs will be obsolete and all media will be in the form of ROM chips on little cards or something.

[Rob2600]

If they went to cartridges I imagine the ROMs would cost a fortune.

Would they still? I know they're not exactly the same as cartridges, but 16 GB USB memory sticks retail for $30. Compare that to three years ago when a 512 MB USB memory stick was $50. The price of solid state memory has dropped quickly and continues to do so.

[XYXZYZ]

Would they still? I know they're not exactly the same as cartridges, but 16 GB USB memory sticks retail for $30. Compare that to three years ago when a 512 MB USB memory stick was $50. The price of solid state memory has dropped quickly and continues to do so.

Yeah, but consider what the price of a blockbuster video game is now, and consider that the manufacturing cost of a DVD is like, a dollar or less. And there was some thread around here about how only 4% of video games actually make a profit. So I don't think the manufacturing cost difference would be negligible.

And like you said, it continues to drop, so like I said everything will eventually be on memory chips, but not quite yet.

[Gentlegamer]

Take a DVD movie for example. I buy it in a store and bring it home to watch. I have to sit through the "Piracy IS stealing!" Bullshit cause they coded it to be unskipable. If I say, dl'ed the torrent there's no BS. Just straight to the opening. So, tell me, why am I paying to be hassled and being suggested to that I might be a thief or worse still? Anti-piracy measures just makes piracy more prevelant. They actually drive some people into piracy.Gaaah! I hate that crap on DVDs! And the unskippable previews that auto-play!

[Push Upstairs]

Yeah that "Piracy is Stealing" thing annoys me too.

I bought the goddamn DVD, why am I forced to see this? Are they hoping I see it and tell my friends?

[Rob2600]

Yeah, but consider what the price of a blockbuster video game is now, and consider that the manufacturing cost of a DVD is like, a dollar or less. And there was some thread around here about how only 4% of video games actually make a profit. So I don't think the manufacturing cost difference would be negligible.

And like you said, it continues to drop, so like I said everything will eventually be on memory chips, but not quite yet.

Actually, it turned out to be 20%, not 4%, but good points overall. I miss cartridges. :)

[Icarus Moonsight]

Yeah that "Piracy is Stealing" thing annoys me too.

I bought the goddamn DVD, why am I forced to see this? Are they hoping I see it and tell my friends?

When I see it first hand it pisses me off. If someone I knew started telling me about the Piracy is Stealing stuff second hand I think I just might snap and knee cap 'em.

[XYXZYZ]

I have to sit through the "Piracy IS stealing!" Bullshit cause they coded it to be unskipable. If I say, dl'ed the torrent there's no BS.

Come to think of it, people who download everything and haven't bought a legitimate DVD in years have never seen it.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Tragic irony is it not? O_O

[monkeychemist]

And even better, consoles should come equipped with fingerprint scanning technology. When you play a game, your fingerprint data must match the code of the fingerprint that was scanned and locked to that copy when you bought it. And there would be periodic checks throughout the game in addition to when you load the game in the first place. This would be a great way to stop reselling, and that will allow game companies to focus on higher quality products and provide a better experience for us, the consumer. :drinking:

I think we should go farther and also lock out friends that want to play. We could license a number of users and check their fingerprint ID at all times from a sensor on the controller!!

[esquire]

I think we should go farther and also lock out friends that want to play. We could license a number of users and check their fingerprint ID at all times from a sensor on the controller!!

Better yet, charge a usage fee by the number of times we play it, or how far we play into a game. :roll: Of course that could backfire if the game is utter crap and no plays the game after purchase.

Come to think of it, what is good for the goose should be good for the gander. If game companies want to charge licensing fees per user, why not also give refunds for when the game is crap. Of course they would never go for that.