Any Plans by Playstation for Backwards Compatibility?

[greedostick]

I'm getting really tired of waiting for PS3 backwards compatibility. And the 60 gig system costs more than it would cost to buy a 80 gig system and a spare ps2. Anyone heard any updates on this? I would realy like to unhook my ps2.

[ProgrammingAce]

Doubtful, sony is still being taken to the cleaners on the manufacture of the PS3. Both the Wii and the 360 at a much lower starting price, the last thing sony can afford to do is take further losses or raise the price.

[Scawt]

Wouldn't surprise me if they were working their way towards selling PS2 games on the PSN.

[boatofcar]

Wouldn't surprise me if they were working their way towards selling PS2 games on the PSN.

Methinks you're right. Just buy a slim PS2 and put it under your PS3.

[Graham Mitchell]

Can somebody break this down for me? I bought an 80 Gig with Metal Gear Solid 4 in August, and I just spent the last hour playing Final Fantasy VII on it. I knew some of them don't have backwards compatibility, but which ones? Mine does it sort-of just fine (many PS1 games have graphic glitches; some (like Atari Anniversary Edition Redux) are actually rendered unplayable.)

[j_factor]

All models of PS3 are compatible with Playstation games, as they are done via a simple software emulator.

Here's the breakdown for PS2 games:

60GB - full BC
20GB - full BC
80GB - partial (~80%) BC
40GB - no BC
80GB (newer units) - no BC
160GB - no BC

It doesn't actually have anything to do with the hard drive itself, this is just how Sony sold them. All units can have their hard drives swapped out. The 80GB units with BC were all sold in bundles, either with Motorstorm or MGS4. Newer ones, which don't come with a game, lack BC. You can tell the difference by the number of USB ports; BC models have 4, the newer models have 2. You can still buy the MGS4 bundle at a few places, but it's just remaining stock.

[greedostick]

All models of PS3 are compatible with Playstation games, as they are done via a simple software emulator.

Here's the breakdown for PS2 games:

60GB - full BC
20GB - full BC
80GB - partial (~80%) BC
40GB - no BC
80GB (newer units) - no BC
160GB - no BC

It doesn't actually have anything to do with the hard drive itself, this is just how Sony sold them. All units can have their hard drives swapped out. The 80GB units with BC were all sold in bundles, either with Motorstorm or MGS4. Newer ones, which don't come with a game, lack BC. You can tell the difference by the number of USB ports; BC models have 4, the newer models have 2. You can still buy the MGS4 bundle at a few places, but it's just remaining stock.

I thought the 60 gig model was the only one with full backwards compability? The 20 gig model has it too? I thought it was emulated with partial compability. I should just buy a 20 gig and switch the 40gb hard drive out of my system.

[Kid Ice]

I used to have a 60 gig system and I found games that were glitchy, a couple that didn't work, that I couldn't adjust the screen size on my TV, and that the "virtual memory card" system was a headache. I ended up getting a PS2 again, trading the 60 gig, and eventually buying a new model (the newer 80 gig) strictly for PS3 games.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I thought the 60 gig model was the only one with full backwards compability? The 20 gig model has it too? I thought it was emulated with partial compability. I should just buy a 20 gig and switch the 40gb hard drive out of my system.

ALL PS3 units have PS1 backwards compatibility.

They always have, and always will have that feature considering they SELL PS1 games in the PSN Store.

PS2 backwards compatibility on the other hand is gone on all current new retail skus.

The official explanation for this is a cost saving measure as the single biggest complaint by consumers since the launch of the unit was the cost.

I assume that Sony will return the feature when they retire the PS2 from hardware production. Unfortunately PS2s still sell assloads ... so we probably won't see that in the near future ...

... however BC has been there right up until the MGS 4 unit ... so I don't really understand what you were "waiting" for, it's been available in one form or another at retail right up until the newest set of skus.

[otaku]

It'd be cool if they could do PS2 downloads. Really though I just want to play yakuza 2 and a couple of import shmups so I need a modded ps2. I don't mind needing another piece of hardware.

[heybtbm]

Wouldn't surprise me if they were working their way towards selling PS2 games on the PSN.

Wow. Someone finally agrees with me on this subject. The lure of $$$ is just too great for Sony to ignore.

In a nutshell, this is what I've been saying (predicting) for the past year:

PS2 games WILL be able to be downloaded off of PSN and they are currently working on a PS2 emulator that will facilitate this. This new feature will become available (completely out of the blue) during one of the frequent PS3 system updates in 2009.

[heybtbm]

It'd be cool if they could do PS2 downloads. Really though I just want to play yakuza 2 and a couple of import shmups so I need a modded ps2. I don't mind needing another piece of hardware.

Yakuza 2 was released in the US last September. If this is old news to you, please disregard.

[CosmicMonkey]

Sony should have made PS2 compatibility optional from the very beginning. They could have released a single SKU with only PSone backwards compatibility.

You want to play PS2 games on your PlayStation3? Then buy this small add-on that looks like a PCMCIA card and plugs into the base of the PS3, which basically contains the integrated EE & GS, and you'll have 99% backwards compatibility. It could have meant that the PS3 could have been slightly cheaper at release and would have certainly removed this whole confusion over which machines play what.


PS2 games WILL be able to be downloaded off of PSN and they are currently working on a PS2 emulator that will facilitate this. This new feature will become available (completely out of the blue) during one of the frequent PS3 system updates in 2009.

I think you're correct. But I'm hoping they'll get rid of any stupid bloody region restrictions and games like Guilty Gear Accent Core and Fist of the North Star will see UK PSN releases.

[Captain Wrong]

If Sony is planning on adding PS2 games to PSN, wouldn't it have been easier to leave PS2 backwards compatibility in the machine?

[Scawt]

If Sony is planning on adding PS2 games to PSN, wouldn't it have been easier to leave PS2 backwards compatibility in the machine?


Easier sure, but also less lucrative. People will double-dip to play their favorite games without having to put in a disc or hook up another console. Add in the possibility of added features or upgrades (16:9 support, online play, higher resolution, etc) and you have a recipe for what is essentially free money.

Look at Microsoft. You can buy Xbox games on the 360, so Sony shouldn't be far behind with PS2 games on the PS3.

[c0ldb33r]

PS2 backwards compatibility on the other hand is gone on all current new retail skus.
Might be a dumb question, but do you mean that there is no PS2 BC at all, or that it's done via emulator. Because that would suck if it was gone entirely. I've been waiting to get a ps3 and I never thought that they'd take features away (which I guess I should know better since they did take hardware BC out of them).

[kaedesdisciple]

Might be a dumb question, but do you mean that there is no PS2 BC at all, or that it's done via emulator. Because that would suck if it was gone entirely. I've been waiting to get a ps3 and I never thought that they'd take features away (which I guess I should know better since they did take hardware BC out of them).

It's gone, period. They even say it on every new box that the system will not play any Playstation 2 games at all. Yet another reason why I won't buy a PS3 yet. When they can finally decide on what features are/are not on the console, I'll consider buying one.

On the outside, yes, it looks like Sony took it away as a cost-saving measure to make the PS3 more affordable to the consumer. They will re-sell these games as downloads, a la the 360, it's not a matter of if but when.

[j_factor]

I thought the 60 gig model was the only one with full backwards compability? The 20 gig model has it too? I thought it was emulated with partial compability. I should just buy a 20 gig and switch the 40gb hard drive out of my system.

20 and 60 are the same in terms of BC. The only partial one is the 80. The 20GB model has other differences from the 60GB -- 2 USB ports instead of 4, no built-in wi-fi, and no memory card readers.


I used to have a 60 gig system and I found games that were glitchy, a couple that didn't work, that I couldn't adjust the screen size on my TV, and that the "virtual memory card" system was a headache. I ended up getting a PS2 again, trading the 60 gig, and eventually buying a new model (the newer 80 gig) strictly for PS3 games.

It had a lot of issues at first, but over time, the issues were fixed with system updates.

[robotriot]

I got a 160GB unit a while back, but here in Europe, all consoles are sold without BC anyway. I still hope they'll produce a PS2 emulator someday, shouldn't be *that* hard, considering how far PS2 emulation is on PC already (well, for 2D games at least.)

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

And for anybody confused/frustrated by the multi-sku nature of the PS3 at retail, please keep in mind that Sony didn't create the multi-sku, multi-tiered, multi-priced game console.

That's been around in the retail marketplace since the Atari 2600, has happened across nearly all platforms since and is currently the business model that MS employs with the 360.

The Wii is the only single-sku console on the market ... so Sony's not really treading any new ground here, they're just trying to figure out what sells the best and what their consumers respond to. (answer = price drops at any cost hardware-wise)

[Sniderman]

Sticking in a Blu Ray player and doubling the price killed it for me.

[Trebuken]

I doubt we will see PS2 backwards compatibility again on the PS3. I think someone nailed it when they suggested Sony would like to double-dip...also would cut into the sale of used games...Microsoft has not updated their compatibility list in 13 months now...

In short, keep a PS2 handy...or get one of those MGS4 systems while you can. I wonder if they will go so far as to disable backwards compatibility in a future firmware update?

[Leo_A]

Rumors been flying for a couple of days that Sony was all set to offer limited PS2 support in a recent PS3 update, but pulled it at the last minute. I suspect we'll see something someday along the lines of what MS has done for backwards compatibility.

[greedostick]

You would think that they would sell a premium version of the system like the xbox does with the elite, and include the 60gb features, and just charge more for the system. I also think the reason they don't do this is that they plan to release ps2 games on the system.

What is so special about this Metal Gear system you are all talking about?

[j_factor]

You would think that they would sell a premium version of the system like the xbox does with the elite, and include the 60gb features, and just charge more for the system. I also think the reason they don't do this is that they plan to release ps2 games on the system.

What is so special about this Metal Gear system you are all talking about?

The MGS4 system has partial BC (like the Motorstorm system before it). Newer 80GB systems don't. The MGS4 system was the most recent PS3 with any BC, and if you're lucky you can still find leftover stock at some stores currently. I think Amazon still has them too.

[kaedesdisciple]

The MGS4 system has partial BC (like the Motorstorm system before it). Newer 80GB systems don't. The MGS4 system was the most recent PS3 with any BC, and if you're lucky you can still find leftover stock at some stores currently. I think Amazon still has them too.

I wouldn't go looking at Amazon. Only the marketplace sellers have that particular model (MGS4) and expect to pay ~700 + shipping for it.

[Graham Mitchell]

I wouldn't go looking at Amazon. Only the marketplace sellers have that particular model (MGS4) and expect to pay ~700 + shipping for it.

Damn, guess I was lucky. They had literally hundreds of those things at Best Buy a few months ago when I bought it.

Now, I had heard that the root of all this confusion (and the reason the thing cost so much in the first place) is that for some reason or another the PS2 couldn't really be "emulated" per se, and they were just throwing a whole PS2 into the hardware [this is an oversimplification of course, but hey, I'm simple.] The price cut is then a result of having all that hardware essentially removed. Maybe that's what everybody's implying with their comments already, but is that true?

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Damn, guess I was lucky. They had literally hundreds of those things at Best Buy a few months ago when I bought it.

Now, I had heard that the root of all this confusion (and the reason the thing cost so much in the first place) is that for some reason or another the PS2 couldn't really be "emulated" per se, and they were just throwing a whole PS2 into the hardware [this is an oversimplification of course, but hey, I'm simple.] The price cut is then a result of having all that hardware essentially removed. Maybe that's what everybody's implying with their comments already, but is that true?

20/60 GB PS3s essentially have all of the PS2 hardware on board (emotion engine).

The 80GB units emulate the emotion engine via software.

[j_factor]

I wouldn't go looking at Amazon. Only the marketplace sellers have that particular model (MGS4) and expect to pay ~700 + shipping for it.

Apparently Sears has it.

[Captain Wrong]

Easier sure, but also less lucrative. People will double-dip to play their favorite games without having to put in a disc or hook up another console. Add in the possibility of added features or upgrades (16:9 support, online play, higher resolution, etc) and you have a recipe for what is essentially free money.

Look at Microsoft. You can buy Xbox games on the 360, so Sony shouldn't be far behind with PS2 games on the PS3.

I think you misunderstood me. In order for the PS3 to play PS2 software at all, be it downloaded or a disc, there has to be some backwards compatibility with the PS2 hardware. On the Xbox 360, for instance, there is limited backwards compatibility and, correct me if I'm wrong, you can play the retail Xbox discs of the same games you can download. What I'm saying is, if they are planning of making PS2 games available, they're now going to have to add PS2 backwards compatibility back to the system when it had it before. That doesn't make any sense to me at all.

[swlovinist]

Message to Sony: Quit fucking up your system that could be a contender. Owner of 20GB model here, and I am glad I paid the extra to get one. I personally like my PS3, but frankly, Sony has completely screwed up the consumer understanding of their system. They make a system that supposedly DOES and PLAYS everything....but PS2 games? I am specifically talking about the large percentage of the new PS3s that have the PS2 feature taken out. New produced PS3 cannot play PS2 games...no emulation nada. I am not going to defend Sony, which has single handedly screwed any way they can be competitive this holiday. I know I sound harsh, but Sony IS NOT LISTENING to the consumer at all(sorry frankie). If they were listening, they would be selling ALOT more units that not only were more affordable, but also BC. They put themselves in this position, and I predict that they will stay third due to having the worst marketing of a game system I have seen in 20 years.

[Scawt]

I think you misunderstood me. In order for the PS3 to play PS2 software at all, be it downloaded or a disc, there has to be some backwards compatibility with the PS2 hardware. On the Xbox 360, for instance, there is limited backwards compatibility and, correct me if I'm wrong, you can play the retail Xbox discs of the same games you can download. What I'm saying is, if they are planning of making PS2 games available, they're now going to have to add PS2 backwards compatibility back to the system when it had it before. That doesn't make any sense to me at all.

So, how does the Wii work with the Virtual Console then? Are they not just emulated through the hardware? Surely the PS3 could do the same with PS2 software?

Actually, thinking about it now, you can't have the hardware being used if you emulate the software. If you're running it off the actual hardware, that's not emulation.

[c0ldb33r]

So, how does the Wii work with the Virtual Console then? Are they not just emulated through the hardware? Surely the PS3 could do the same with PS2 software?
No actually the Wii has the internal hardware of an NES, SNES, N64, Genesis, commodore 64, Sega master system and turbografx 16 right in there. It's amazing they can pack everything in a package that small.

[kaedesdisciple]

I think you misunderstood me. In order for the PS3 to play PS2 software at all, be it downloaded or a disc, there has to be some backwards compatibility with the PS2 hardware. On the Xbox 360, for instance, there is limited backwards compatibility and, correct me if I'm wrong, you can play the retail Xbox discs of the same games you can download. What I'm saying is, if they are planning of making PS2 games available, they're now going to have to add PS2 backwards compatibility back to the system when it had it before. That doesn't make any sense to me at all.

They don't HAVE to do anything. I can't imagine it's very difficult for them to rerelease a game as a download and disable you from using the disc. All Sony has to do is claim that the downloaded game has changes to make it work on the PS3 and the PS2 disc version is not compatible. Can anyone really do anything about it? Doubtful.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Message to Sony: Quit fucking up your system that could be a contender. Owner of 20GB model here, and I am glad I paid the extra to get one. I personally like my PS3, but frankly, Sony has completely screwed up the consumer understanding of their system. They make a system that supposedly DOES and PLAYS everything....but PS2 games? I am specifically talking about the large percentage of the new PS3s that have the PS2 feature taken out. New produced PS3 cannot play PS2 games...no emulation nada. I am not going to defend Sony, which has single handedly screwed any way they can be competitive this holiday. I know I sound harsh, but Sony IS NOT LISTENING to the consumer at all(sorry frankie). If they were listening, they would be selling ALOT more units that not only were more affordable, but also BC. They put themselves in this position, and I predict that they will stay third due to having the worst marketing of a game system I have seen in 20 years.

No need to apologize.

I think they do listen to their consumer base very clearly, and frankly, as much as it sucks to hear - we of the early-adopting and hardcore gaming, are not the most important segment of a console manufacturer's consumer base in this day and age.

It's all about year-to-year new adopters/impulse/casual purchasers of console hardware, and to them PS2 backwards compatibility isn't an issue (likely because they bought their first PS2 just a few years ago) what IS important to them is/was the cost/price of the console.

While it's obvious that Sony made several mis-steps at retail with the PS3, it should also be obvious that (one of) the reason(s) that we have units with NO PS2 compatibility is so Sony can keep the cost of the system at a price that is reasonably close to their closest competitor in the market, MS.

When a "casual" consumer goes into a store be it a Wal-Mart or a Game Stop they're inevitably going to be faced with a question and an answer "which console is the best for me?". I'd venture to guess that 9 out of 10 employees that are asked that question do NOT recommend the PS3, and those that do have a problem when it comes to the price tier of the unit/skus.

PS3 is clearly an imperfect beast of a system and that's impossible to deny...but if the general public hadn't practically BEGGED Sony to drop the price from day one, there's a strong chance that Sony wouldn't have looked for things to cut for cost-effectiveness.

That, and the fact that PS2 still sell assloads globally. I'm still sticking to my guns that once Sony discontinues production of the PS2 that we'll finally see SOME type of option for BC on the PS3. Yes, I know there are differences of opinions on that matter, but that's my stance on it and anything else (just LIKE my stance) is purely speculation, so we'll have to wait and see.

[kupomogli]

Wouldn't surprise me if they were working their way towards selling PS2 games on the PSN.

I just had to quote this before showing what I found.


Let's talk more about that. I'd love to download my favorite PS2 games onto my PS3's hard drive so I don't have to worry about finding the discs. Will Sony ever provide downloadable PS2 games to play on the PS3?


We're still sorting through that. We're absolutely interested, but there are some technical hurdles there that we have to overcome first. But this is something that we're absolutely interested in. You make good points, there are a lot of people who would be interested in playing the strongest PS2 games on their PS3. Nothing's imminent on that, but it's something we are interested in as well. [Read more about the possibilities for downloadable PS2 games here].

So yeah. As you can see, Sony is working their way towards downloadable PS2 games, so instead of offering gamers the chance to play older games on their PS3 through backwards compatibility, they decide to fuck them over and force those who don't have a 20, 60, or early 80GB PS3 to pay extra for just data. Regardless of how cheap it is, it's a bullshit tactic.

I own a 60GB PS3 and like it for the system itself and I love the PSP, but this is bullshit and just fucking over the consumers.

For John Kohler. If you know people are interested in playing the strongest PS2 games on their PS3, then add backwards compatibility back you fucking douchebag. You know the majority of gamers already have those games. I guarantee they can make some sortof backwards compatibility download.

*edit*

Here's the interview btw. http://www.gamepro.com/article/features/208283/sony-talks-playstation-3-psp-success-in-2009/

[fpbrush]

I agree with Frankie, in that although most of the hardcore segment would really want full BC, the market that matters--the casual gamer--doesn't really care as much about this feature, at least not right now.

I haven't bought a PS3 because I don't have a HD setup, so I couldn't fully appreciate the games or use the blu-ray feature. However, I do see myself getting one in the future, and of course like many of you, would love to have the BC feature implemented back in--if for the only reason in order to save some space. I hope when I do purchase one I will be able to go into a store and buy a system with some kind of BC, but, I am glad at least I have the option of tracking down a 60gb with full BC, if I decide it's really worth it to me.

Of course, time will tell!

[swlovinist]

I see the other points brought up, but talking to the 20 game stores within about my 100 mile radius of my house I see the same story over and over again.

"Joe the casual consumer" into a game store and wants to buy a PS3
Wants to upgrade to one from a PS2, wants to trade his system in towards credit
Finds out that the PS3 cant play PS2 games
Leaves store to think about it

I have to disagree with you Frankie(in respect) BC is a big issue with people.

I think the big problem with the PS3 is that it is not marketed to the general public. Sony tried to go the high road, high price, and high performance system, which alienated alot of its fanbase. At some point, Sony needs to realize that having a system that is $100 to $150 more than your competator is not going to cut it with people.
As for the people "begging" for a lower priced system....the system was overpriced from day one. I was one of many people that was outraged at the cost of the system. $500 for a gimped version, $600 for the version that they should have never stopped making.
Two years later, we have a price drop, but in my opinion, selling a gimped version of the console is not going to cut it for a system that is still overpriced and underperforming against it rival/rivals...depending on how you look at it.


At some point, even the loyal Sony hardcore fans need to call it how it is...

Sony has screwed the pooch with the PS3 and it is nobody elses fault but their own

[TonyTheTiger]

I think what gets people is less the lack of backwards compatibility and more the constant removal of features. It's one thing to not be invited to a party but it's a completely different thing to get invited and then be turned away at the door. So when each new PS3 model is a little inferior to the last, people start to get annoyed. If they had cut costs before launch by nixing all the nonessentials and kept it down to one or two models that gradually dropped in price via the natural order of things then it might be a less vexing situation.

And, let me be the first to admit that even as someone who pays attention to the industry I wasn't always 100% on which model did what. I'd see the Metal Gear Solid 4 bundle and have to ask myself "Ok, which one is this?" So imagine how confusing it is for everybody else.

[swlovinist]

And, let me be the first to admit that even as someone who pays attention to the industry I wasn't always 100% on which model did what. I'd see the Metal Gear Solid 4 bundle and have to ask myself "Ok, which one is this?" So imagine how confusing it is for everybody else.

100 percent agree. This is an example of why I think that Sony has completely confused the consumer. Sony continuing to take things away(like mem card readers and usb ports) on top of the obvious(BC) just does not make sense any way you put it. To me there is no excuse for not having BC(software at least) if you are charging 400 for your system. I could see at launch this being the case, but the price to produce the system has gone down, as well the technology is now not cutting edge. Since Blu Ray players are hitting the 200 mark, Sony better do something within 6 months on price if they want to stay competitive. At this point, I dont know if the system is going to hang around another 3 years the way they are going.

[Leo_A]

I just had to quote this before showing what I found.


So yeah. As you can see, Sony is working their way towards downloadable PS2 games, so instead of offering gamers the chance to play older games on their PS3 through backwards compatibility, they decide to fuck them over and force those who don't have a 20, 60, or early 80GB PS3 to pay extra for just data. Regardless of how cheap it is, it's a bullshit tactic.
[/url]

No where in what you posted said anything worth getting that upset over. Just because Sony is working toward a software solution for PS2 playback and are interested in downloadable PS2 titles, doesn't mean the emulator won't be available free like the 360's BC emulator, for our disc based PS2 titles. Support for downloadable PS2 titles and disc based PS2 titles aren't mutually exclusive, I'm sure they'd do both if they ever do this.

[kupomogli]

I own a 60gb PS3 so there's no problem for me. Also, yes, I know companies would rather make money, but just like Nintendo and Microsoft at points, Sony should attempt to stop screwing over their customers. I just don't like for gaming companies to continue using their cheap tactics, even subtly. Like removing PS2 compatibility to make PS2 games downloadable instead.

[Rob2600]

the Wii has the internal hardware of an NES, SNES, N64, Genesis, commodore 64, Sega master system and turbografx 16 right in there. It's amazing they can pack everything in a package that small.

You forgot the Neo Geo.

[G-Boobie]

So, how does the Wii work with the Virtual Console then? Are they not just emulated through the hardware? Surely the PS3 could do the same with PS2 software?

Actually, thinking about it now, you can't have the hardware being used if you emulate the software. If you're running it off the actual hardware, that's not emulation.

The systems supported by the Virtual Console are eight through sixteen bit(Neo geo is sort of twenty four bit, I guess, but we won't go into it). It's pretty simple to code software to emulate games of those generations with a processor as (comparably)fast as the Wii's. I mean, the Master System is a Z-80 processor: I could run that on my alarm clock. With processor overhead that low, emulation is easy. Single processors, standard memory mapper set ups... No problem. Convincing a PS2 game coded for the PS2 hardware to run properly on a PS3 with the Cell is apparently more of an issue. I'm sure they're working on it, but what with their dismal sales, the global economic crisis, and looming layoffs for their technical division, it's probably not a priority.


No actually the Wii has the internal hardware of an NES, SNES, N64, Genesis, commodore 64, Sega master system and turbografx 16 right in there. It's amazing they can pack everything in a package that small.

Wouldn't it be ironic to crack open your Wii and see the Sony SNES sound chip sitting in there?

[nintendoeats]

Interesting bit of information. If your PS3 does not have BC, then it NEVER WILL. there are 3 types of PS3s

The ones with both the Emotion engine and the full GPU (I think that a few things are handled by emulation, but nothing that matters).

The ones that still contian most of the GPU, but no emotion engine. The emotion engine is handled through emulation.

The ones that have no Ps2 components at all (except for the ones whih are integrated into the PS3 design, i.e. input controllers).

The PS3 is NOT capable of running a full PS2 emulation, however it can emulate an Emotion engine OR a GPU. So if your PS3 has no BC, it never will.

sorry guys.

(BTW, I have an MGS4 system, bought in early Sptember. did I luck out or what? stupid Sony.)

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I see the other points brought up, but talking to the 20 game stores within about my 100 mile radius of my house I see the same story over and over again.

"Joe the casual consumer" into a game store and wants to buy a PS3
Wants to upgrade to one from a PS2, wants to trade his system in towards credit
Finds out that the PS3 cant play PS2 games
Leaves store to think about it

I have to disagree with you Frankie(in respect) BC is a big issue with people.

I think the big problem with the PS3 is that it is not marketed to the general public. Sony tried to go the high road, high price, and high performance system, which alienated alot of its fanbase. At some point, Sony needs to realize that having a system that is $100 to $150 more than your competator is not going to cut it with people.
As for the people "begging" for a lower priced system....the system was overpriced from day one. I was one of many people that was outraged at the cost of the system. $500 for a gimped version, $600 for the version that they should have never stopped making.
Two years later, we have a price drop, but in my opinion, selling a gimped version of the console is not going to cut it for a system that is still overpriced and underperforming against it rival/rivals...depending on how you look at it.


At some point, even the loyal Sony hardcore fans need to call it how it is...

Sony has screwed the pooch with the PS3 and it is nobody elses fault but their own

Funny, you keep disagreeing with me, but honestly, we're not of completely opposing viewpoints, just different perspectives on the same subject.

BC is a big issue for anybody who has an above-average acumen when it comes to gaming. They don't have to be hardcore-to-the-bone ... or even a quote-unquote loyal Sony fan ...

... the problem is, and I agree with you - a big mistake on Sony's part - is that they've completely de-valued that segment of gaming from that level, all the way up to the hardcore crowd IN FAVOR of the ultra-ultra casual consumer who never even knew that BC was an option with their PS3 systems by all of the removing and revising of hardware within the period of the past 2 years.

They've gutted the BC feature as a cost-saving measure, which has made a lot of hardcore, yet, cost prohibited against early-adoption PS3 gamers feel SPITED by Sony.

When I look at the big picture, I'm not sure who to really be angry with - Sony for choosing to axe feature which most gaming "collectors" and "enthusiasts" like myself had come to expect from Sony in this generation (as it was a STAPLE in their previous 2 systems) OR the (in some cases) impatient masses who rallied against the initial retail price point of the PS3 which in many ways influenced Sony cutting that feature.

Sony has made a mess of things in a lot of departments with the development and marketing of the PS3, but me, I can pretty easily see past those mistakes and see a wonderful system that still has tons of potential in the same way that I can look past the system-specific flaws that the 360 and Wii are littered with.

The bottom line is that in this generation more than others there are no "perfect" systems. They're all gimped and janked and lacking in certain areas (be it in constant hardware failure, or revised hardware, or overwhelming shovelware at retail, etc. etc.) and we can only keep our fingers crossed that they learn from their mistakes and our criticisms moving forward.

[Leo_A]

Interesting bit of information. If your PS3 does not have BC, then it NEVER WILL. there are 3 types of PS3s

The ones with both the Emotion engine and the full GPU (I think that a few things are handled by emulation, but nothing that matters).

The ones that still contian most of the GPU, but no emotion engine. The emotion engine is handled through emulation.

The ones that have no Ps2 components at all (except for the ones whih are integrated into the PS3 design, i.e. input controllers).

The PS3 is NOT capable of running a full PS2 emulation, however it can emulate an Emotion engine OR a GPU. So if your PS3 has no BC, it never will.

sorry guys.

(BTW, I have an MGS4 system, bought in early Sptember. did I luck out or what? stupid Sony.)


Where's your proof? I'm betting on you being incorrect.

[heybtbm]

Interesting bit of information. If your PS3 does not have BC, then it NEVER WILL.

The PS3 is NOT capable of running a full PS2 emulation, however it can emulate an Emotion engine OR a GPU. So if your PS3 has no BC, it never will.

sorry guys.

This is the first I've heard of "EE or GPU, but not both". Where did you get that from?

[nintendoeats]

I had to dig to find this (I don't think where I first read it, but anyway). enjoy.

http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2007/10/08/40gb-ps3-missing-key-components-for-ps2-emulation/

[Leo_A]

That link says nothing about the PS3 not having enough power to fully emulate the PS3 via software. In fact, it says its possible and was decided against on a basis of cost.

[nintendoeats]

"The 60GB model launched in Europe was a new model (shared with the 80GB model launched subsequently in USA) which contains only a modified version of the Graphics Synthesiser chip from the PS2 and not the Emotion Engine chip. The European launch model therefore used a combination of software and the modified version of the PS2 Graphics Synthesiser chip to deliver backwards compatibility for PS2 titles. As a result the percentage of backwards compatible PS2 titles was slightly reduced.

"The 40GB model, to be launched in Europe on 10th October, is a new model and is not equipped with any of the semi conductors from the PS2, and backwards compatibility would therefore have to be achieved by software emulation alone." Because each game would have to be individually emulated (much like on the Xbox 360), Sony decided that an effort like that would be much too costly, and opted to remove BC support from the 40GB system entirely. That decision has not only produced a cheaper system for Sony to manufacture, but for consumers to buy as well."

[nintendoeats]

Your right, it doesn't say that the PS3 could not emulate them. my mistake. I was speaking off-hand. Still, the overall idea of the GPU and CPU is still supported.

[nintendoeats]

So to summarise, in order to make a game available for downlaod, Sony would only have to make an emulator designed to function WITH THAT GAME. However, making a moe general emulator would be a serious task and Sony probably doesn't consider it worthwhile. Remember, the PS1 emulation comes from Bleem, which alreayd existed. all Sony had to do was port it over.

n order to make all those 160 gig PS3s BC, Sony would have to buid half of an emulator. That may be doable for a small operation that can take years to release a product, but Sony has to maintain standards and find a buissness justification to do so.

[FxMercenary]

I know that he 60 gig PS3 was the only one launched with an actual emotion engine ps2 processor in it just for BC. The other models just emulate the ps2 hardware ( 80 gig ) and can be buggy.

Sony is working on a fully compatible PS1 and PS2 emulator that will be available for download on the PlayStation store for around $49.99 ( disc playable ) and downloadable ps1 and 2 games will come bundled with a lite version of the emulator, but it will only play downloaded games, it will not run disc based ones.

Late spring/early Summer 09.

Compatability and patches for old games to offer up multi-player support over the new PlayStation Home is in the works for major titles on ps1 and 2 such as the Gran-Turismo Series, and arcade based fighters.

Many of the old games will transfer to the HDD of the Playstation 3 via emulator program.

Production of the PS2 will cease sometime after the holiday season.

[kaedesdisciple]

I know that he 60 gig PS3 was the only one launched with an actual emotion engine ps2 processor in it just for BC. The other models just emulate the ps2 hardware ( 80 gig ) and can be buggy.

Sony is working on a fully compatible PS1 and PS2 emulator that will be available for download on the PlayStation store for around $49.99 ( disc playable ) and downloadable ps1 and 2 games will come bundled with a lite version of the emulator, but it will only play downloaded games, it will not run disc based ones.

Late spring/early Summer 09.

Compatability and patches for old games to offer up multi-player support over the new PlayStation Home is in the works for major titles on ps1 and 2 such as the Gran-Turismo Series, and arcade based fighters.

Many of the old games will transfer to the HDD of the Playstation 3 via emulator program.

Production of the PS2 will cease sometime after the holiday season.

Wow, that's a lot of information. Reputable source or rumor?

[Leo_A]

Its fiction, he made it up.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Its fiction, he made it up.

Quoted for truth.

[ProgrammingAce]

Yer, that aint right.

Truth is, the emotion engine is a complicated beast, far more so then the Xbox1's x86 pentium 3. Even the development TOOL for the PS2 wasn't entirely compatible with the retail systems, there were 20-30 bugs that developers had to account for. And the TOOL basically had an emotion engine inside

[robotriot]

Still, I find it interesting how those systems that don't have any form of PS2 BC have the option of creating a virtual PS2 memory card. I never tried it on my PS3, but what's it good for when you can't run PS2 games?

[Leo_A]

To store your PS2 data if you have the memory card adapter and want to clear some space on your memory card without erasing the data. Same idea behind why you could archive your PSOne memory card data on to a PS2 memory card, but wasn't able to actively access it from such a card within a PSOne title.

[robotriot]

Oh I see, makes sense!

[G-Boobie]

Plus, the virtual memory card is a function built into the OS by Sony. It makes less sense to remove that function than it does to leave it in, since both BC capable machines and non-BC capable machines use the same firmware.

Personally, I'm rocking a 60 gig, and after experiencing multiple crashes and freezes while playing PS2 games, as well as having issues accessing my virtual memory card, I plugged my PS2 back in and called it good.

[kupomogli]

You can transfer files to a virtual memory card but you can't transfer files back to the regular memory card.

[Leo_A]

I'm a new PS3 owner so I may be incorrect, but I believe that was resolved in a firmware update quite sometime ago.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I'm a new PS3 owner so I may be incorrect, but I believe that was resolved in a firmware update quite sometime ago.

That is correct. You CAN transfer both ways, that was resolved a looooooooong time ago.

[kupomogli]

That is correct. You CAN transfer both ways, that was resolved a looooooooong time ago.

Didn't know that. I never transferred data for that very reason and just use my PS2 to play PS2 games. If that's the case then I guess I won't mind making a new character on my PS3.

[G-Boobie]

Didn't know that. I never transferred data for that very reason and just use my PS2 to play PS2 games. If that's the case then I guess I won't mind making a new character on my PS3.

Assuming the PS3 recognizes your (virtual)memory card. I still have problems with that when playing SoulCal 3 and Persona 3.

[kainemaxwell]

I hate how the newer ps3's now have no backwards compatibility for ps2.

[PapaStu]

Really? Bumping a 4 year old thread to say that? Come on.

[crazyjackcsa]

Do you have any better plan to get to 12,000+ posts?