True reason PS3 took out Backward Comp. (my bluetooth theory)

[BHvrd]

Ok, so I've had my 60 gigger since day one, got it, great... works fine. Months go by and slowly but surely my Bluetooth signal cuts out on occasion, no big deal at first but man does it progress and get worse month after month.

A year later my controller is cutting off every 30 minutes and I cannot get it reconnected without a restart (major annoyance), i'm starting to write off the ps3 as useless at this point. Couple months go bye, I try many recommendations to fix the system to no avail, many stupid things, i'll be damned if i'm sending in my backward compatible ps3, no way! I'm gonna figure this shit out!

Finally found out about a secret boot screen where basically the registry can be rebuilt, so I rebuild, reformat and the whole nine yards. Back in the fray, the baby is running like a dream. PS3 gaming for hours, with one disconnect but it reconnected no problem. Play PSone games...brilliant. Play PS2 games...WTF, WTF...... ok here we go again. Restart... Ok PS3 fine, PSone fine, PS2.... 30 minutes of play... disconnect can't reconnect.





Here is the theory: (after much pondering I might add)



When the PS3 boots to a PSone game the controller never losses connection, just watch and you will notice you never have to hit the button to reconnect, yet when PS2 games launch you always have to reconnect.

I noticed that PS2 games connect to a port called (1/1A), I started thinking.... could this possibly be splitting the bluetooth signal somehow? I begin to think that maybe the system considers 2 ports to be specific for PS3/PS2 as PS2 only had 2 ports (they share) and the signal may be getting crossed. I decide to log to port (1C) which I believe to be what would be considered a (multi-tap port) from PS2 standards. NO PROBLEMS. I then decide to play a two player game with my son, me on port (1C) him on (1/1A). All is fine till he quits and I re-register to (1/1A) where after a few minutes I lose signal and cannot reconnect.... Definetely a pattern here!!

My theory is that somehow the connections are interwoven with the bluetooth in the HDD. I (believe) these files can become corrupted and damage the bluetooth signal over time depending on how the system is powered off, therefore leading to complete loss of signals across all.

I know one thing for sure, this is a fixable problem, cause I have fixed it myself, just narrowing it down to exactly how it happens so it doesn't manifest itself again is the hard part, cause it seems to want to do it. I just need to figure out how to stop it (how to power off) but I have figured out this much and I know it's true (this is week two of testing and it has proven 100% so far) cause this is the most progress I have made in the past 6 months all together.

I know you people with connection problems are out there and hopefully this will help, and I can say honestly that I have very VERY little doubt that my theory is very far off, cause I have proven it to myself and seen it myself. There may be exceptions to the rule, but I know I am on to something here and i'm posting this exact message on the playstation boards.

Having a $600 that you cannot play is not cool, gotta say the PS3 is a beast of a machine though and technologically advance on MANY aspects. My favorite console since Dreamcast.

Bluetooth connectivity loss is a wide spread problem for the PS3, believe it. Time to admit it and get it out in the open. This is but one solution to many of the problems with the Bluetooth connectivity, though I believe the problem I have illustrated has been the most costly and widespread one and hard to figure out and has cost the PS3 backwards compatibility with PS2 (something we all hate).

[G-Boobie]

I had so many weird issues with playing PS2 games on the PS3 that I don't even bother anymore: I just plugged in the PS2 again and called it good(I too am rocking a 60 gig).

Thanks, though, for the tip. That's good detective work!

[nintendoeats]

But if thats the problem than why didn't they:

Fix it in a firmware update
Fix it in a hardware revision
Find it in testing
Release an official wired controllers
Take out BC to start with, rather than switching to emulation

I'm not asking to be rude or anything, but we need to consider these things.

[Lerxstnj]

This is why Sega and Nintendo need to compete with the RRoD and now the BToD. Bring on the Dreamcast 2!!!!(I hope!!!)

1-The biggest problem I ever had with my Dreamcast was a dead battery in the VMU! (and we all know that is no problem at all!)

2-I never buy launch systems.

3-I will never get rid of my PS1 or PS2.(or DC!!)

4-Can you tell which system I like most?

5-Sega - please learn from their mistakes!

[aclbandit]

I guess I've just been really lucky so far-- I've never had issues with my 60-gig model at all! Here's hoping they don't start soon *crosses fingers*

[BHvrd]

But if thats the problem than why didn't they:

Fix it in a firmware update
Fix it in a hardware revision
Find it in testing
Release an official wired controllers
Take out BC to start with, rather than switching to emulation

I'm not asking to be rude or anything, but we need to consider these things.

These are fair questions and only Sony knows the answer. It's not unreasonable that there were other reasons (cost/time wise), but again this is just a theory to the truth as the title suggests. The only fact is that my PS3 has suffered these issues as I know others have and I find it rather a coincedence, especially considering that PSone BC was never taken out and the fact that it has a total different method of connecting when booted.

This is only to shed light on the problem as I have tested and proven this to myself and to possibly help others that are having issues and don't want to give up on PS2 BC. I'm already getting very interesting replies on the Playstation forums and hopefully (if nothing else) Sony will realize how important BC is and either fix it or fess up. I just don't want to see BC of the PS2 go down the drain as the system enhances the games and makes them more accesible than ever with internal memory cards, smoothed graphics, internet connectivity without adapter, upscaled graphics for HD, etc.

If Sony never brings back BC for the PS2, this is at least a solution and theory that holds water for those that experience these problems and want to try and fix it. Sony's intentions are up for consideration, fair enough. I had something that didn't work and made it work that is a fact, even if it is short term I did it. There is definetely a puzzle piece with all this though and it's anyones guess. Why didn't they indeed.

Like I said i'm two weeks into this and so far it's 100% on the mark, we'll see how I fair after more testing. I think from comments i've gotten on the playstation forums I may see a trend in how people play PS2 games and power off their PS3 systems. We'll see.


I guess I've just been really lucky so far-- I've never had issues with my 60-gig model at all! Here's hoping they don't start soon *crosses fingers*

How often do you play PS2 games and how do you usually power your system off?

[Dangerboy]

I have a much simpler theory on the lack of backwards compatibility.

It's called the fear factor.

What better way to dump a TON of stock sitting on shelves than to threaten to remove the one thing that made the PS2 so kick ass in its heyday? As a retail worker who has been through all 3 system launches, I can tell you we had the same PS3 systems from our *original second shipment* sitting in our backroom for months. We couldn't give them away.

Sony warns of the removal, BOOM all sold. We *still* have people looking for 60 / 80g BC systems.

Second, the PS2 is now a profitable hardware. If the fan base whats their PS2 games, let them re-buy / buy the profitable last-gen system AND the current one.

I don't see BC ever coming back, unless there's some hidden software download emulator coming that will just blow the 80g's away.

[nintendoeats]

Frankly, the buissness reasons DO make alot more sense than the bluetooth one. I mean, the bluetooth could be busted, I wont deny that, but it seems much moe likely that Sony just wanted people buying consoles (plus removal of BC makes the systems cheaper). Also, PS2 game sales had been canabalising PS3 sales, and I think that this was part of Sony's offensive against that.

[linlhutz]

I don't see BC ever coming back, unless there's some hidden software download emulator coming that will just blow the 80g's away.

Once PS2 hardware sales dwindle to the point of being irreverent Sony will release a new firmware that enables all PS3's to have PS2 BC.

Honestly, If my PC can play PS2 games there's no reason the PS3 can't do it.

BC will be back. If I had to guess when I'd say by Dec 2009.

[Skelix]

OK, since you talk about different ways to power down the PS3, what is the "correct" method to do it with least chance of corruption? I have a 60 and have no problems but I hardly use the thing.

Been mostly a blu-ray player as I've been mostly gaming on 360.

[nintendoeats]

Once PS2 hardware sales dwindle to the point of being irreverent Sony will release a new firmware that enables all PS3's to have PS2 BC.

Honestly, If my PC can play PS2 games there's no reason the PS3 can't do it.

BC will be back. If I had to guess when I'd say by Dec 2009.

VERY UNLIKELY. The BC in the 80 gig PS3s still has a hardware component, namely the GPU. Sony would have to code a new emulator that could do both the EE and the GPU. It is not clear whether or not this is even possible (the EE is a very complicated CPU after all).

[Poofta!]

i have a 60gb and bc works perfectly. i never had BT disconnecting either... (in any game) however the ps3 is mainly my br player with the 360 being the game machine (sorry, its just better at it). however i still played (and play) the ps3 a lot, and beaten a couple ps2 games on it (and 1 ps3 game).

the way i shut it off after playing ps2 games is i exit the game and return to the xmb (or whatever its called) then hold the playstation button on the remote and go to shut off console. when i play blurays or ps3 games, i dont bother quitting to xmb.

out of curiousity, could you link us to the playstation forums post? id like to read it.

thanks, and good luck!

[MegaDrive20XX]

The only game I have ever seen have issues on the 60GB PS3 is Sonic Mega Collection PS2. The music on Sonic 1 is very distorted.

[Chainclaw]

I think the early controllers are just bad. I have two six-axis controllers, one of them periodically cuts out, the other one has never cut out.

And your theory is all crazy people talk. Especially the controller 1 / 1-A. That's because of how the multitap works on the PS2, and the PS3 lets you play PS2 games that support 3+ players. Read the multitap instruction manual for the PS2 for more info. The number is what port the multitap is plugged into, and the letter is the controller slot on the multitap. Some games needed the multitap in player 1's port, some needed it in player 2's. There's no signal splitting or anything crazy like that.

[nintendoeats]

I think the early controllers are just bad. I have two six-axis controllers, one of them periodically cuts out, the other one has never cut out.

And your theory is all crazy people talk. Especially the controller 1 / 1-A. That's because of how the multitap works on the PS2, and the PS3 lets you play PS2 games that support 3+ players. Read the multitap instruction manual for the PS2 for more info. The number is what port the multitap is plugged into, and the letter is the controller slot on the multitap. Some games needed the multitap in player 1's port, some needed it in player 2's. There's no signal splitting or anything crazy like that.

Quoted for truth. This theory really isn't very plausible.

[BHvrd]

i have a 60gb and bc works perfectly. i never had BT disconnecting either... (in any game) however the ps3 is mainly my br player with the 360 being the game machine (sorry, its just better at it). however i still played (and play) the ps3 a lot, and beaten a couple ps2 games on it (and 1 ps3 game).

the way i shut it off after playing ps2 games is i exit the game and return to the xmb (or whatever its called) then hold the playstation button on the remote and go to shut off console. when i play blurays or ps3 games, i dont bother quitting to xmb.

out of curiousity, could you link us to the playstation forums post? id like to read it.

thanks, and good luck!

http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=ps3&message.id=3555677#M3555677

Holding the power button in the front and turning the system off in the back after the standby button is red so far seems to be the winning formula. I'll be honest and say that many times I shut down the system with the controller in game for PS2 and PS3 both and really i've always thought maybe that was it.

I'm gonna keep that post alive over the next few weeks if it gets lost in shuffle and see, but so far I think i'm not going to power off with the controllers anymore.



I think the early controllers are just bad. I have two six-axis controllers, one of them periodically cuts out, the other one has never cut out.

And your theory is all crazy people talk. Especially the controller 1 / 1-A. That's because of how the multitap works on the PS2, and the PS3 lets you play PS2 games that support 3+ players. Read the multitap instruction manual for the PS2 for more info. The number is what port the multitap is plugged into, and the letter is the controller slot on the multitap. Some games needed the multitap in player 1's port, some needed it in player 2's. There's no signal splitting or anything crazy like that.

I have heard this so many times. I have both old and new controllers and both do it equally.

Thanks for making the point that the multi-tap indeed does need to be setup a certain way to work right, if nothing else you are proving that my point is legitimate and I may be right. The fact is the PS3 may be counted as having the 1 player slots already filled x2 plus the multitap. I don't see why you would think signal splitting is crazy talk when the PS3 controller can be used to quit the game while playing PS2 games, PS2 never had that function of course there is a type of signal splitting and the fact that's 1 / 1-A kinda proves that wouldn't you say, they didn't do this for PSone emulation it's simply (1), Imo the multi-tap emulation is the main culprit here. It's like having a PS3/PS2 and multitap all on the same port.

I would place my bets that the multitap is wondering what the hell a PS3 controller is or some sort of connection error there. Think about it, if the multi-tap has to be emulated via software the emulation must be stored on the HDD, I doubt they retrofit the guts of a multi-tap into the PS3, so the powering off from inside a PS2 game would explain the possible corruption of this port and bluetooth and signal loss in general.

I don't doubt Sony did away with BC to boost sales as Dangerboy pointed out as a matter of fact that is probably the main reason, but this is mainly for people who have experienced this problem like I have and it's to help them out. Imo the theory is sound, if it's why Sony did away with BC remains to be seen. Truth is this has worked for me 2 weeks straight, no denying that.

[nintendoeats]

If that is true, than every person who ever worked on PS2 compatiblity must be an idiot.

[G-Boobie]

Once PS2 hardware sales dwindle to the point of being irreverent Sony will release a new firmware that enables all PS3's to have PS2 BC.

Honestly, If my PC can play PS2 games there's no reason the PS3 can't do it.

BC will be back. If I had to guess when I'd say by Dec 2009.

Theres a bit more to it than that, chief. There's a huge difference between the PS3 architecture and standard PC architecture. If it were easy, Sony would have simply done it, and nevermind selling PS2's: the cost difference between the two would have kept the PS2's selling because let's face it: that's why the PS3 is sinking, not BC problems. We care about that because we're videogame nerds. John Q Public doesn't care. You can buy a PS2 at Wal-Mart for, what, 130 bucks? You can buy three PS2's for the cost of a PS3. Sony doesn't need to push PS2 sales; compared to the PS3, they sell themselves.

I have no doubt that at some point there will be PS2 BC via software on the PS3, but I seriously doubt that there's some sinister conspiracy at the root of the problem. It's just the usual run of the mill incompetence.



And your theory is all crazy people talk. Especially the controller 1 / 1-A. That's because of how the multitap works on the PS2, and the PS3 lets you play PS2 games that support 3+ players. Read the multitap instruction manual for the PS2 for more info. The number is what port the multitap is plugged into, and the letter is the controller slot on the multitap. Some games needed the multitap in player 1's port, some needed it in player 2's. There's no signal splitting or anything crazy like that.

Actually, I had my friend with the sixaxis issue try BHvrd's method earlier today, and it works. I have no idea why.




I don't doubt Sony did away with BC to boost sales as Dangerboy pointed out as a matter of fact that is probably the main reason, but this is mainly for people who have experienced this problem like I have and it's to help them out. Imo the theory is sound, if it's why Sony did away with BC remains to be seen. Truth is this has worked for me 2 weeks straight, no denying that.

Nope. Its just incompetence. That, and Sony was trying desperately to cut costs. Your method works, BHvrd, which is awesome, but yet again, lets not split too many unnecessary variables. Sony has acted like a moron this whole generation so far, and bluetooth connectivity issues are more than likely just a dumb technical problem that will eventually get worked out like every other dumb technical issue that's plagued the PS3.

[eskobar]

I think that sony eliminated the hardware backwards compatibilty to cut production cost. As any of you should know, SONY loses money for every PS3 sold .... and given the current situation of the console, SONY is taking too much loss.

SONY sure can make a very good emulator for its console, but it costs money to put a team to work in it. Maybe in 2 or 3 years we could have a better financial situation and could afford to have a team working on the emulator and have better BC.

Also, the Ps2 is still selling strong and they do profit for every PS2 sold :D

BTW, i've never had problems with my 60 gb PS3 using PS2 games.

[Poofta!]

wait, PCs can emulate PS2 now? wow i been under a rock. how good is compatibility? link ?

thanks in advance.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I also have a launch 60Gig unit.

I occasionally would get a few seconds of bluetooth disconnect on my original SixaxiS controller.

I eventually purchased a second SixaxiS and then a Dual Shock 3 controller.

Neither of those controllers EVER dropped signal on any game - PS1, PS2 or otherwise. Only my original SixaxiS ever did. (I sold that controller a few months ago.)

Have you tried out new/different controllers? I assume that you have considering how much work you've done to investigate correct the problem, but there is a chance that the dropped signal is because of faulty BT hardware in the controller and not the system.

And ... why wouldn't you send in your 60Gig unit for repairs if this is a constant issue? Does Sony force users who have 60Gig units to downgrade to non-backwards compatible units when they send in units for repair? That really really sucks if that's the case!

[j_factor]

wait, PCs can emulate PS2 now? wow i been under a rock. how good is compatibility? pcsx2. Compatibility is relatively poor, less than half.

[mailman187666]

I've only ever had troubles with my original sixaxis controller not responding. It wouldn't just be in PS2 BC either, it could happen anytime pretty much. I used other controllers and I've never had troubles. I also played a lot of PS2 on my original 60 gig. Maybe try other controllers and see what happens.

[SegaAges]

This is why Sega and Nintendo need to compete with the RRoD and now the BToD. Bring on the Dreamcast 2!!!!(I hope!!!)

1-The biggest problem I ever had with my Dreamcast was a dead battery in the VMU! (and we all know that is no problem at all!)

2-I never buy launch systems.

3-I will never get rid of my PS1 or PS2.(or DC!!)

4-Can you tell which system I like most?

5-Sega - please learn from their mistakes!

Wait. Did we just become best friends?
http://www.slashfilm.com/wp/wp-content/images/stepbro.jpg

And, Do you want to do karate in the garage?
http://bayareashows.today.com/files/2008/07/step-brother_l.jpg

[Joe West]

my ps3 was doing all kinda weird things, so i sent it to sony, for a $129.00 they fxed the problem, and i believe gave me a 90 warranty..............all i can say is AMEN

[BHvrd]

I've only ever had troubles with my original sixaxis controller not responding. It wouldn't just be in PS2 BC either, it could happen anytime pretty much. I used other controllers and I've never had troubles. I also played a lot of PS2 on my original 60 gig. Maybe try other controllers and see what happens.

That's what my post says as well if you would bother reading it. It wasn't just with PS2 BC, that's just where it started for me.

This solution also fixes Bluetooth errors with PS3 as well, just access the secret boot screen and you can rebuild the registry....Hold power button down and don't let go till the unit goes off again, then hold it again till it beeps twice and you will get the hidden menu.

I just don't get why you people keep insisting it's the controllers, it isn't this is a totally different problem altogether and in my case it's the console and this is the way I fixed it period. Did noone read that I have fixed the problem? I don't need solutions.

[j_factor]

If the problem can be fixed with a simple menu option, how on earth can you say it has anything to do with backwards-compatibility being removed?

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

That's what my post says as well if you would bother reading it. It wasn't just with PS2 BC, that's just where it started for me.

This solution also fixes Bluetooth errors with PS3 as well, just access the secret boot screen and you can rebuild the registry....Hold power button down and don't let go till the unit goes off again, then hold it again till it beeps twice and you will get the hidden menu.

I just don't get why you people keep insisting it's the controllers, it isn't this is a totally different problem altogether and in my case it's the console and this is the way I fixed it period. Did noone read that I have fixed the problem? I don't need solutions.

Well, if you want to really get into semantics, you say you've "fixed" it ... but what it sounds like is that you've only found a specific routine of how to power on and off the controllers and system to avoid dropping controller sync.

And while that may solve the problem in the case of how the BT functions on your system, that doesn't mean you've actually "fixed" what's caused the initial drops.

I didn't really see anywhere in your original post that says you tried different controllers (different/new ones from outside of your collection up to and including the Dual Shock 3) so that's why I asked the question.

In any case it's cool that you've figured out a work-around that keeps your controllers synced.

[BHvrd]

If the problem can be fixed with a simple menu option, how on earth can you say it has anything to do with backwards-compatibility being removed?

Ay, yi, yi.

First you go through the process of cleaning the system and it's the BC that causes the problem in the first place so just be careful how you use controllers and exit gaming while playing PS2 BC. If you are experiencing these problems.

I'm saying all was well till I started messsing with BC and it has problems for sure, maybe just my system maybe not, I know alot of people have BT problems, but it's something to think about at least if you are having problems, again it's just a theory, I still wouldn't say it's outside the reality of being possible that Sony did it in to an extent cause it had problems. It was/is just a serious coincedence on my side.

I remember it happening in the past now i'm being careful.


Well, if you want to really get into semantics, you say you've "fixed" it ... but what it sounds like is that you've only found a specific routine of how to power on and off the controllers and system to avoid dropping controller sync.

And while that may solve the problem in the case of how the BT functions on your system, that doesn't mean you've actually "fixed" what's caused the initial drops.


True, I haven't literally fixed it I have just found a loop hole around it, which is fixed enough for me, least I can play the damn thing now.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

True, I haven't literally fixed it I have just found a loop hole around it, which is fixed enough for me, least I can play the damn thing now.

I wonder if the bluetooth transmitter/receiver in the PS3 is a separate component that could be swapped out, or if it's really hard-wired to the motherboard.

Ryan Murf has opened a few PS3s at the DP store for repairs ... I recall him saying the way that the system is layed out seems to be very conducive for part swapping (much like the layout of the original Playstation).

[kedawa]

The original Playstation has like three parts, though.

[Emuaust]

Interestingly today there will be an update to singstar on the ps3 so you can play your ps2 singstars through the ps3 version on ANY ps3, might not be much and might only be PAL but yeah maybe there is something to this.

[otaku]

on any ps3? if they can make singstar work on any ps3 why cant I play yakuza 2!!!!

[G-Boobie]

on any ps3? if they can make singstar work on any ps3 why cant I play yakuza 2!!!!

Because the code is wildly different for a karaoke game. Emulating some basic pitch detection and streaming music videos is probably easier than an open world game.

[PapaStu]

Not to mention that SingStar started in PAL land and is a HUGE seller there. People probably arn't rebuying the PS3 version of the games since they've got many of the same songs as the PS2 ones. They've got so many expansions out for it that its not even funny (though the US market seems to have a ton now as well).

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

The original Playstation has like three parts, though.

Well, the PS3 could have 10 and still be layed out for easy part replacement.