Reasons Why All New Dreamcast Releases are Shmups

[allyourbase]

Does anyone know why nobody makes anything but average shoot-em-up's for the DC anymore?
I know it isn't very financially viable to program a big-budget game for an extinct system- but considering all of the cult following this console has, not to mention it's popularity in the Asian market why hasn't anyone (at least one) put together a project for a new game just for love of the system? Considering projects like Pier Solar in dev for the Genesis- I KNOW for a fact that the DC could use some more english RPG's. I would love nothing more than a 16-bit homage rpg for the DC, anyone else?
I would love to see a new game that isn't just another insanely difficult 2d shooter that might as well just be 1942 on steroids (granted, these HAVE been good looking shmups). Any other gamers with me that they would be all over a new DC release? Does anyone know of anything that has been or previously was in development for the late DC, minus shmups?

Maybe I'm just still bitter about Sega leaving the system out to dry, ha. Like a lamb to the slaughter... She never stood a chance against what Sony and ultimately Microsoft brought to the table. Great peripherals, though.

[nectarsis]

I agree a "throwback/retro" rpg would be SWEET for the DC.

[roushimsx]

Because of development costs. It's entirely possible for a team of 3-7 people to port over a Naomi release that they'd already completed to the Dreamcast and churn a profit from a limited print run than it is for a larger team to try to make any amount of money on an exclusive RPG (that'll be instantly pirated anyway).

Hell, the DC port (and publishing and marketing and support) of Trizeal was done by one person (I believe the arcade version was simply him and something like two contract workers).

G.Rev saw more money in moving over to the 360 (for whatever reason :( ) and Milestone was the last to release an official title (Karous) and it was a little while ago anyway. Chaos Field was a bit of a misstep, but I really thought they did a decent job with Radirgy and Karous. Both companies are incredibly small (I think Milestone may be the biggest with ~7 people?).

Trigger Heart Exelica was pretty well done as well, but I've got a bit of a hard on for Warashi anyway (Shienryu is one of my favorite Saturn games). Again, they're a tiny company porting over a game that had previously been released in arcades on the Naomi hardware.

My biggest gripe about people moving to the 360 is that it's a bitch to import titles now. One of these days I'm going to have to break down and pick up a Japanese 360 :( (it's cheaper and prettier than buying arcade boards, I guess). More of those guys need to hop on board XBLA and PSN. Great that Warashi and Treasure got on board, but we really need Cave and G.Rev to stop fucking around and get with the program. :(

tl;dr - blame pirates! There's not enough money to be made.

[gameofyou]

I was always hoping that the 3rd Dynamite Cop game would get released on the DC. I think that the GD-roms are no longer made, so we probably won't see any more official releases.

[j_factor]

Wind and Water Puzzle Battles just came out last month.

[G-Boobie]

Roushimsx nailed it; the Dreamcast hardware is pretty much the same thing as the Naomi arcade board, so porting stuff is almost no work at all. Shmup development is also a snap compared to developing RPG's, fighting games, 3D action titles, etc. etc., and comes with a built-in hardcore niche market(especially in Japan).

Something else to consider: Sega stopped charging licensing fees for Dreamcast development. Add in the fact that a lot of arcade shmup releases are done on a shoe-string budget by tiny studios who develop on the cheap and well-understood Naomi platform, and there you have it.

[bangtango]

@ allyourbase:

It isn't just shmups that have been released for Dreamcast. There have been some puzzle games. Like it or not, that's what you are going to get.

Stuff like puzzle games and shmups are done for a system like that for a few reasons. One of those is that a good game in either genre can be developed on a smaller budget, assuming whoever is developing it knows what they are doing. The other reason is time. It takes a lot less time to throw together some derivative of Tetris or 1942 (as you put it so well) than it does to develop even a rudimentary, linear, 16-bit style, paint-by-numbers rpg.

Take on developing an rpg, for example. Even if it is a generic, no-frills homage to the 16-bit SNES/Genesis days, think about the work. You have to write a story, create original party members, create original enemies, figure out a battle system, figure out hit points and damage points, figure out weapons and armor, decide what type of magic characters might be using, design appealing settings.....the list goes on. And that is just creating a concept. Then you have to go and develop/program it then work out any bugs before you have a finished copy.

Let's say somebody has the money to create such an RPG for Dreamcast out of thin air. The typical audience for that type of project (people on forums like this) is impatient as hell. The wait will be so long on this type of game that every person on the net who is waiting for it will beat the game to death before it ever gets released. Then when it does get released, you can count on people saying it wasn't worth the wait or didn't live up to the hype. Fact is, anybody coming up with an RPG for a system like Dreamcast will be taking on one of the most thankless tasks in recent memory.

[Vroomfunkel]

Then when it does get released, you can count on people saying it wasn't worth the wait or didn't live up to the hype. Fact is, anybody coming up with an RPG for a system like Dreamcast will be taking on one of the most thankless tasks in recent memory.

Let's not forget the most important criticism of all ... the quality of the the cover graphics!

[kedawa]

I'm still waiting for Age of the Beast...

[Brian Deuel]

@ allyourbase:

It isn't just shmups that have been released for Dreamcast. There have been some puzzle games. Like it or not, that's what you are going to get.

Stuff like puzzle games and shmups are done for a system like that for a few reasons. One of those is that a good game in either genre can be developed on a smaller budget, assuming whoever is developing it knows what they are doing. The other reason is time. It takes a lot less time to throw together some derivative of Tetris or 1942 (as you put it so well) than it does to develop even a rudimentary, linear, 16-bit style, paint-by-numbers rpg.

Take on developing an rpg, for example. Even if it is a generic, no-frills homage to the 16-bit SNES/Genesis days, think about the work. You have to write a story, create original party members, create original enemies, figure out a battle system, figure out hit points and damage points, figure out weapons and armor, decide what type of magic characters might be using, design appealing settings.....the list goes on. And that is just creating a concept. Then you have to go and develop/program it then work out any bugs before you have a finished copy.

Let's say somebody has the money to create such an RPG for Dreamcast out of thin air. The typical audience for that type of project (people on forums like this) is impatient as hell. The wait will be so long on this type of game that every person on the net who is waiting for it will beat the game to death before it ever gets released. Then when it does get released, you can count on people saying it wasn't worth the wait or didn't live up to the hype. Fact is, anybody coming up with an RPG for a system like Dreamcast will be taking on one of the most thankless tasks in recent memory.

Anyone making ANY sort of game on the Dreamcast better make it either a clone of another game or an emulator, or NO ONE will play it. I speak from experience. Originality counts for DICK these days. I have a completely finished game (an old-school style shmup with some original elements not found in any other game I've ever played) that I'm keeping to myself due to the FOUR people who downloaded the gameplay demo in an entire years' time. Not one single comment or criticism; I don't care if anyone thought it sucked. The indifference killed all of my motivation to even bother, and led me to conclude that unless it's one of the two types of programs I mentioned, no one will play it.

More proof- go to dreamcast.dcemu.co.uk and check out the comments under the posts. If it's an emulator or "commercial" game, it'll get a fairly large number of comments. If it's a hobbyist production, ZERO comments. No one cares about original games on the DC anymore. They'd rather play Super Mario 3 for the millionth time, on yet another NES emulator.

I sure enjoy my game from time to time, though. I have yet to beat it.

[GameNinja]

Despite the obvious difficulties in creating an original DC game, I would love to see a good, official RPG for the platform. The controllers just make me so happy...

[CosmicMonkey]

The last few official Dreamcast games have been Naomi GD Rom conversions, all of which happen to be arcade shmups, which are rather popular in Japan. Since Sega ceased production of the GD Rom format, there's been no more official Dreamcast games. And the last lot of Naomi games have reverted to cartridge format.

Had the Dreamcast continued as a viable format, I'm sure we would have seen conversions of Melty Blood and the various Guilty Gears (and Mushi King with VMU card reader peripheral :P).

I'm still waiting for Age of the Beast myself.

[j_factor]

Anyone making ANY sort of game on the Dreamcast better make it either a clone of another game or an emulator, or NO ONE will play it. I speak from experience. Originality counts for DICK these days. I have a completely finished game (an old-school style shmup with some original elements not found in any other game I've ever played) that I'm keeping to myself due to the FOUR people who downloaded the gameplay demo in an entire years' time. Not one single comment or criticism; I don't care if anyone thought it sucked. The indifference killed all of my motivation to even bother, and led me to conclude that unless it's one of the two types of programs I mentioned, no one will play it.

More proof- go to dreamcast.dcemu.co.uk and check out the comments under the posts. If it's an emulator or "commercial" game, it'll get a fairly large number of comments. If it's a hobbyist production, ZERO comments. No one cares about original games on the DC anymore. They'd rather play Super Mario 3 for the millionth time, on yet another NES emulator.

I sure enjoy my game from time to time, though. I have yet to beat it.

I don't know what game you made, but I remember Alice Dreams garnering some attention. Interest has waned due to slow progress, but I like what I've seen/played.

[Haoie]

I'm frankly amazed they're still releasing honest to goodness real games for it.

[boatofcar]

Let's not forget the most important criticism of all ... the quality of the the cover graphics!

You win this thread.


To tell you the truth, though, I'm surprised we haven't seen at least one RPG on the DC since we've had, what, three on the Genesis?

[bangtango]

Does anyone know why nobody makes anything but average shoot-em-up's for the DC anymore?

Because the marketplace is already saturated with both "lousy" and "great" shoot-em-up's. Somebody has to fill that area in between. It's a tough job but these little developers are taking it on.

[chandler_455]

I think it is because they are pretty easy to develop and they are a pretty fun genre that people will buy

[SegaAges]

Not all are.

Where is the goat dude who runs the goat store.

3 or 4 games have been released through his place like feet of fury, sheep herders (sorry, I forgot the name), and a few more that were not schmups.

Also, is last hope a schmup?

[Iron Draggon]

OK, so where's the big master list of DC aftermarket releases, since everyone seems to know but me? I wouldn't mind collecting all those SHMUPS someday!

[Icarus Moonsight]

Same here.

I have;

Psyvariar 2 (2004 release... not sure if this is one, could be)
Trigger Heart Excelica
Under Defeat

I know of, Karous, Trizeal and Border Down. Would like to know of more so I can keep an eye out. :)

EDIT: Just need Trizeal, Border Down and Last Hope! Will get Karous and Radio Allergy on the Wii Ultimate Shooter Collection soon so I can skip them for the DC. I feel really good now! LOL

[Dire 51]

OK, so where's the big master list of DC aftermarket releases, since everyone seems to know but me? I wouldn't mind collecting all those SHMUPS someday!
Here's a good list:

http://hg101.classicgaming.gamespy.com/dcshooters/dcshooters.htm

[Icarus Moonsight]

There's Drill and Dux too. Drill -- doesn't look like this homebrew has been finished or released but, there was a demo. Anyone have more info? Here's the linky;

http://www.dreamcast-scene.com/index.php/Main/Drill

Dux apparently is set for release this month...

http://www.dreamcast-scene.com/index.php/Main/DUX

[G-Boobie]

Also, is last hope a schmup?

Yessir it is.