Super Game Gear? [Archive] - Retrogaming Roundtable

Coldguy

01-02-2009, 11:53 PM

Just was wondering if anyone attempted to find a way to play game gear games on a master system? I think it be a cool thing to have to play the game without worrying about power dieing in the game gear. Any ideas?

ProZach500

01-03-2009, 12:13 AM

That's a cool idea. From what I understand the graphics should be compatible but I really don't know much about Sega so don't quote me.

theChad

01-03-2009, 12:16 AM

The Game Gear's color palette is larger than the Master System's, so I don't think it is possible.

SegaAges

01-03-2009, 12:22 AM

Yeah, somebody would have to downgrade the GG pallette for it to work.

DKTheArcadeRat

01-03-2009, 12:41 AM

How about playing Game Gear games on a Genesis?(More colors on a Genesis probably, but idk if that would necessarily work or not.)

Gameguy

01-03-2009, 12:57 AM

You can mod a Game Gear so it can be connected to a TV.
http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/ggrgb/ggrgb.html

j_factor

01-03-2009, 01:30 AM

How about playing Game Gear games on a Genesis?(More colors on a Genesis probably, but idk if that would necessarily work or not.)

The Game Gear actually has a larger color pallette than the Genesis. Genesis only has 512 colors (same as Turbografx and Atari ST); Game Gear has 4,096 (same as Lynx and Amiga).

zektor

01-03-2009, 01:39 AM

I play GG games using SMS Plus on the Dreamcast. Works perfectly and looks great...not to mention it is the most inexpensive way to do it!

vintagegamecrazy

01-03-2009, 02:26 AM

What kind of monitor would you need if you did that mod, what hookup does it use for the TV?

Blitzwing256

01-03-2009, 02:27 AM

I play GG games using SMS Plus on the Dreamcast. Works perfectly and looks great...not to mention it is the most inexpensive way to do it!

the question was refering to the legal way to do it with real hardware not warez and romz
but thanks for sharing!

Wraith Storm

01-03-2009, 02:49 AM

ProZach500

01-03-2009, 03:05 AM

What kind of monitor would you need if you did that mod, what hookup does it use for the TV?

It just looks like a VGA connection so virtually any computer monitor would work I assume and I do believe there are VGA to RCA adapters that can be purchased.

Gameguy

01-03-2009, 03:29 AM

What kind of monitor would you need if you did that mod, what hookup does it use for the TV?
It would depend on how you wire the output, but it outputs RGB.

Here's another link that's from the resources section, it's not wired with a scart cable.
http://disgruntleddesigner.com/chrisc/segahacking/ggrgb.html

Zap!

01-03-2009, 04:39 AM

The Game Gear actually has a larger color pallette than the Genesis. Genesis only has 512 colors (same as Turbografx and Atari ST); Game Gear has 4,096 (same as Lynx and Amiga).

This has got me thinking...How many colors do today's systems have? Boy, I sure do miss the good old days talking tech specs, no one does it today. :(

Greg2600

01-03-2009, 02:05 PM

SEGA did release a converter to play Master System games on a Game Gear. Amazing that will all the various add-ons SEGA released, nothing was done for Game Gear playing on another system.

Blanka789

01-03-2009, 02:58 PM

Man I would kill to be able to play GG games on either the MS or the Genesis. However, I've always heard that it would be virtually impossible thanks to the color palette.

Rob2600

01-03-2009, 05:25 PM

How many colors do today's systems have?

24-bit color depth = 16.77 million colors

Zap!

01-03-2009, 06:03 PM

24-bit color depth = 16.77 million colors

Ahh, ok. Is that the limit, or will we see even more?

Reminds me of the idiot Nintendo counciler who in 1988 told me the NES' 52 colors was enough. He said "Can you even name 52 colors?" Boy, would I like to meet him one day, to tell him how much of an ass he was. Him and all the idiots who told me I was crazy in 1995 for getting a 1.26 gig HD. :D

Greg2600

01-03-2009, 06:03 PM

Another link, of modding a Game Gear game to run on a Master System. This is completely unfeasible if you ask me. Also, GG had a different resolution than SMS or Genesis, right? Another stumbling block? http://disgruntleddesigner.com/chrisc/segahacking/gg2sms.html

Honestly the better path is to mod the Game Gear for video output. SEGA was kind enough to do so on the Nomad (who really needs AV out on that?) but not Game Gear.

Coldguy

01-03-2009, 07:09 PM

I'm surpised that no one actually made a solution for this, although not a common request it would do really well. I think if someone figured out how to open the game gear, place a composite cable jack to the machiene and allow it to similtaniously display, it would be a big winner.

Anyone want to give it a go?

CosmicMonkey

01-03-2009, 07:46 PM

It is possible to get RGB from a GameGear; there's a very long thread over on the SMSPower forums about it. From an RGB signal you can get SVid, Component and Composite with the right transcoder.

Jorpho

01-03-2009, 07:54 PM

Ahh, ok. Is that the limit, or will we see even more?It would seem to be a ways off at this point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_depth

megasdkirby

01-03-2009, 08:44 PM

What about doing something ala 32X on the SMS? Play GG games on the SMS using some enhancements.

j_factor

01-04-2009, 01:22 AM

Probably 10 years ago I stumbled upon a website that was about this very subject. Some guy was taking his Game Gear games out of their cartridges and plugging just the board into the Master System cart slot or perhaps it was the Master System adapter on the Genny.

Surprisingly some of the games actually worked. In every case the colors were all messed but he claimed that they actually played. The only one I remember for sure was one of the Poker games that was a later release... It had the purple Game Gear boarder and a picture of a guy dealing cards.

I'd be interested in finding out what all games actually worked this way. But there's no way I'm taking all my Game Gear games apart to find out! LOL

Fun fact: There are a few Game Gear games that are actually SMS games burned to GG cartridges, using the GG's SMS compatibility mode.

Rob2600

01-04-2009, 01:42 AM

How many colors do today's systems have?

24-bit color depth = 16.77 million colors

Ahh, ok. Is that the limit, or will we see even more?

24-bit/16.77 million colors is considered photo-realistic. Maybe future video game consoles will produce more than that, but there isn't really a need right now.

c0ldb33r

01-04-2009, 11:22 AM

It was my understanding that the human eye couldn't distinguish between between more than 16 million colours.

Greg2600

01-04-2009, 02:20 PM

The number a human can see is technically unknown, and estimated at 10 million. I think that you can still make use of more colors than that, because it gives you more possibilities with shading and hues.

As for Game Gear on SMS card slot, I don't see how? GG has 25 contacts on the bottom row, while the Sega card has only 18, and some empty space but is also much thinner.

Supposedly the only reason for the incompatibility is the color palette.
http://www.segacd.org/segabase/SegaBase-MasterSystem.html

Again, I think the key is to have an inexpensive method of playing the games outside the Game Gear. Reason being that the screens were notorious for ghosting and poor brightness, the clear plastic covers easily got scratched up, and the cheap capacitors used fall apart and kill the sound. Obviously the most logical is to say just use an emulator, but none of us would be here talking about it if we always took that route.

Zap!

01-04-2009, 02:30 PM

24-bit/16.77 million colors is considered photo-realistic. Maybe future video game consoles will produce more than that, but there isn't really a need right now.

There's also only so many the eye can see, or TV can display. :)

Gameguy

01-04-2009, 09:59 PM

There's also only so many the eye can see, or TV can display. :)
I would find it hilarious if games would be made with graphics beyond the capabilities of the human eye. LOL

Maybe there could be characters that spoke in a frequency that only dogs can hear, it could be a new genre of games. Games you can play with your pet.

Coldguy

01-04-2009, 10:47 PM

Again, I think the key is to have an inexpensive method of playing the games outside the Game Gear. Reason being that the screens were notorious for ghosting and poor brightness, the clear plastic covers easily got scratched up, and the cheap capacitors used fall apart and kill the sound. Obviously the most logical is to say just use an emulator, but none of us would be here talking about it if we always took that route.

Bingo!

DJTrueStory

01-04-2009, 11:12 PM

I'm very surprized that over the years nothing like this has been created, it seems people have done everything else. I've heard the excuses that "you can just get the emulators, do the DCU emulation thing and put them all on a dreamcast" which is true and also very illegal (there are loopholes, but all and all it's not something that I'm for as a collector/player... while emulators let people who would otherwise never play games play them, it also takes away alot of the magic...)

The odd thing is Sega has always been known for being "ahead of their time" in their technology for their systems. I'm very suprised things like Super Gameboy/GBA addaptor for Gamecube came out, and sega never released a way to play Game Gear games on TVs. (especially since the Nomad had hook ups to TVS)

While the most efficiant way to do this would be to mod a Game Gear... but it would be nice to find a way to mod another system already built for TVs instead

kedawa

01-04-2009, 11:58 PM

There are more differences between the SMS and GG than just the color palette.
Just off the top of my head, there's stereo sound and and a very low-resolution video mode that the SMS doesn't support.
None of those differences are enough to make it impossible to play GG games on SMS, though.
It wouldn't be a trivial process, but I can't imagine it being that difficult.

Zap!

01-05-2009, 12:49 AM

I would find it hilarious if games would be made with graphics beyond the capabilities of the human eye. LOL

Maybe there could be characters that spoke in a frequency that only dogs can hear, it could be a new genre of games. Games you can play with your pet.

Games we can only play if we have been altered. :)

rbudrick

01-05-2009, 02:32 AM

There are other major stumbling blocks. For one, the Start button on the GG and the Pause button on the SMS are NOT handled the same way. Has something to do with interrupts with the processor. Anyway, some games will start if you put the ROM of a GG game on a SMS flash cart, however, if they do start at all, they often are frozen on Pause, don't start at all, colors are completely messed up, and a host of other issues.

There is no way to simply play GG Games on an SMS unless they are of the very few that are actually SMS games put on a GG cart and played in GG resolution.

Your best bet is to mod a GG for TV out. I have one and couldn't be happier with it. Unfortunately, the DPer that did it for me does not want to do any more, afaik. I think it is just too time-consuming for him. Also, it can be an expensive mod, mostly due to labor.

-Rob

Coldguy

01-05-2009, 02:56 AM

Appearently there is a schemedic going around:

http://www.smspower.org/forums/download.php?id=143&sid=bf2b97c3a806c4c3d90791bebc4b1beb

looks like this when assembled:
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Segasonicfan/th_100_0259.jpg
Bigger Image (http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Segasonicfan/100_0259.jpg)

Now if I only had the talent to recreate this...

Rob2600

01-05-2009, 12:48 PM

Bigger Image (http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Segasonicfan/100_0259.jpg)

Judging from that photo, the picture quality is so much better on a normal screen than on the Game Gear's LCD. What a difference!

krooper13

01-05-2009, 04:38 PM

I think the Master System Girl or Compact will be as close as you manage for now! Though also whilst they seem similar the Game Gear does have teh ability to do quite alot that the Master System doesn't so that would provide a stumbling block should you wish to try.

jb143

01-05-2009, 06:07 PM

Appearently there is a schemedic going around:
...
Now if I only had the talent to recreate this...

The schematic is only for the bottom half of that PCB. It looks to be a pretty simple build (although drawn a bit confusing). It looks to be RGB output so that other board is making it composite. The resistors on the outputs of the 574 flip flops could be replaced with digital to analog chips for better results.

I don't know enough about the inner workings of a Game Gear to know exactly what it's doing...other than all the inputs and outputs are wired correctly on the chips so it shouldn't hurt your Game Gear should anyone try to build it.

Coldguy

01-06-2009, 11:14 PM

Hmmm...
http://mash-mods.com/products/Sega%20GameGear/ggtvblastIservice

They also sell the hit to make it possible too, however I think this version of the chip is a Black and White display, although can not confirm.

Jorpho

01-07-2009, 12:00 AM

j_factor

01-07-2009, 01:00 AM

I guess there's never been reports of some kind of wacky internal dev unit that could play Game Gear games on a TV? It seems kind of surprising given all the other dev hardware that's turned up over the years. (Nintendo had such gadgetry for Game Boy games apart from the Super Game Boy, if memory serves.)

Can't find a picture right now, but I know for a fact such a thing exists. It looked like a regular GG, but with circuitry in the battery compartments.

rbudrick

01-07-2009, 02:39 AM

Back in the late 90s, me and a guy in Australia tried connecting a GG to a TV and the most we got was B&W. I eventually bugged a guy in Sweden to open up his Dev GG-TV unit (I knew of the units from an old EGM and asked around to see who had one) and post pics on smspower.org. Luckily, he obliged. A few major deductions were able to be made from the pics, but not much progress was made from our findings until a couple years ago where those at SMSpower picked up where we and others left off and finished the mod.

But yeah, those dev units are pretty much impossible to find. At one time (before the mod was available) I was offering $500 to whoever wanted to sell theirs, but no one bit.

-Rob

slapdash

01-08-2009, 11:05 PM

Oo, I have one! Not for sale though. Got it from a Sega employee. Or maybe ex at the time, not sure. And yeah, it's just a GG with a AV cable running out of it.

Coldguy

01-09-2009, 12:47 AM

Oo, I have one! Not for sale though. Got it from a Sega employee. Or maybe ex at the time, not sure. And yeah, it's just a GG with a AV cable running out of it.

Any pictures of it as well as some tips on how we mere people can recreate it?

ccovell

01-09-2009, 06:11 AM

As has been iterated a couple of times:

Pictures:
http://www.smspower.org/dev/ggtv/

How to make:
http://www.smspower.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2539
or, to jump to the best design (by Villetim):
http://www.smspower.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2539&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=200

MASTERWEEDO

01-09-2009, 09:14 PM

Coldguy

01-09-2009, 09:31 PM

Anyone want to make money off of those who frequent this thread (and beyond), make this and share.

Greg2600

01-10-2009, 01:46 PM

Coldguy, eh, I don't know, the mods which have been done don't look very practical. Except for the one where the guy had some kind of small board in the battery compartment. Was that the developer-model? Mods to systems like Colecovision, Atari (s), seem to be a lot easier and faster to do. The Game Gear mod seems more difficult than the NES one.

Jorpho

01-10-2009, 02:03 PM

Remember the "TV de Advance" for the GBA? Maybe something with a similar installation method could be made.

rbudrick

01-10-2009, 03:57 PM

Actually, the mod can be done where the mod board fits quite easily inside the system in the empty space below the screen. Mine was modded for composite, svideo, RGB (a VGA style port), and even a SMS/GG mode switch, which isn't that useful but cool to mess with sometimes. No need to take up a battery compartment like the official dev units.

Alternately, you could built the mod into an external box and have a cable run from the unit to the box.

-Rob

Coldguy

06-12-2009, 02:38 AM

Guess what...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkAAEqvM9bI&feature=channel_page

We have a theorm for someone to try!

slapdash

06-15-2009, 10:12 PM

My guess is the signal's going the wrong way... He's intercepting signal going from the tuner into the unit, so there's no way to use it to pull a signal from the unit.

Rickstilwell1

06-16-2009, 01:53 AM

Actually with hacking, running Game Gear exlusives on Master System can be possible if the hack is put onto a SMS rom cart or even better, a repro cart.

Someone on www.sonicretro.org has hacked Sonic Triple Trouble, a Game Gear exclusive to run as an SMS file with increased resolution and the color palettes reduced. The game still looks and plays the same but you can see objects that were originally off-screen such as a Knuckles sprite floating above the emeralds in the opening sequence before he drops down to grab the them.

Last time I looked he wasn't 100% done with the hack, needing to change the palette in the last couple levels but these guys at Sonic Retro are quite productive most of the time.

CRV

06-16-2009, 04:54 AM

Actually with hacking, running Game Gear exlusives on Master System can be possible if the hack is put onto a SMS rom cart or even better, a repro cart.

See also some of those late Brazilian SMS releases.

todesengel

06-17-2009, 02:49 AM

rbudrick

06-17-2009, 12:26 PM

I remember reading years ago that Sega made a prototype GG to Genesis cartridge that worked like a Super Gameboy but scraped the whole thing. Don't remember where I read that in since it was about 13 years ago.

Now THAT is something that is possible (and would have been excedingly awesome), considering the SGB used enhanced GB internals and was simply powered by the SNES. A similar method could have been used for GG. However, you can't just natively run GG games on a SMS or Gen/MD, as already discussed.

-Rob

BetaWolf47

06-17-2009, 01:01 PM

Question: Wouldn't a peripheral that allowed the Mega Drive to play Game Gear games be called "Mega Game Gear"?

Jorpho

06-17-2009, 02:30 PM

Question: Wouldn't a peripheral that allowed the Mega Drive to play Game Gear games be called "Mega Game Gear"?I'm sure if Sega actually made such a device they would ultimately have come up with a name just as obscure as "Power Base Converter".

(Seriously, what's up with that name? It suggests a device that could do any number of things, none of which would be playing SMS games on a Genesis.)

BetaWolf47

06-17-2009, 02:33 PM

I'm sure if Sega actually made such a device they would ultimately have come up with a name just as obscure as "Power Base Converter".

(Seriously, what's up with that name? It suggests a device that could do any number of things, none of which would be playing SMS games on a Genesis.)

Heh, you've got that one right. It's the most random thing I've ever heard.

PingvinBlueJeans

06-17-2009, 03:33 PM

Probably 10 years ago I stumbled upon a website that was about this very subject. Some guy was taking his Game Gear games out of their cartridges and plugging just the board into the Master System cart slot or perhaps it was the Master System adapter on the Genny.

Surprisingly some of the games actually worked. In every case the colors were all messed but he claimed that they actually played.
That's nonsense. Even if the hardware were totally compatible, the cartridges are a completely different size, use different PCBs, etc.

I'm sure if Sega actually made such a device they would ultimately have come up with a name just as obscure as "Power Base Converter".

(Seriously, what's up with that name? It suggests a device that could do any number of things, none of which would be playing SMS games on a Genesis.)
Heh, you've got that one right. It's the most random thing I've ever heard.
A silly name, but hardly random. Sega always referred the Master System console itself as the Sega 'Power Base' (read any SMS instruction manual). It's also printed right on the system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ms1v1.png).

c0ldb33r

06-17-2009, 06:59 PM

That would be amazing if there were homebrew groups working on such a thing. I don't imagine that it would be particularly difficult to do (if one had the knowledge).

If someone released this as a genesis cartridge, it would be the first homebrew that I bought.

Jorpho

06-17-2009, 11:15 PM

That's nonsense. Even if the hardware were totally compatible, the cartridges are a completely different size, use different PCBs, etc.Makes sense enough to me. After all, Famicom and NES carts have different sizes and PCBs too. And I doubt there's any sophisticated electronics in the MasterGear converter.

A silly name, but hardly random. Sega always referred the Master System console itself as the Sega 'Power Base' (read any SMS instruction manual). It's also printed right on the system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ms1v1.png).Ah. Well, I'm schooled.

Greg2600

06-18-2009, 12:02 AM

Considering neither the 32X or SegaCD were powered by the Genesis, would a Super/Mega Game Gear have to use an AC Adapter as well?

PingvinBlueJeans

06-18-2009, 12:15 AM

Makes sense enough to me. After all, Famicom and NES carts have different sizes and PCBs too.
Huh?

Yes, Famicom and NES carts have different sizes and PCBs...which is why you need a converter to play FC games on an NES. You can't just stick a bare board pulled from a Famicom cartridge into an American unit. That's exactly what the previous poster was claiming (that some guy stuck bare Game Gear PCBs into a Master System console or Power Base Converter and was able to play some of them).

Again, that's nonsense.

And I doubt there's any sophisticated electronics in the MasterGear converter
There doesn't need to be, since the Game Gear was based on the SMS hardware and was designed to be backwardly compatible with that system. The Master System, on the other hand, was obviously not designed to be compatible with the Game Gear (since the SMS came out first).

Rob2600

06-18-2009, 12:22 AM

Considering neither the 32X or SegaCD were powered by the Genesis, would a Super/Mega Game Gear have to use an AC Adapter as well?

If I remember correctly, the Power Base Converter was powered by the Genesis, so a Game Gear adapter could go either way.

Wraith Storm

06-18-2009, 03:04 PM

Yes, Famicom and NES carts have different sizes and PCBs...which is why you need a converter to play FC games on an NES. You can't just stick a bare board pulled from a Famicom cartridge into an American unit. That's exactly what the previous poster was claiming (that some guy stuck bare Game Gear PCBs into a Master System console or Power Base Converter and was able to play some of them).

Again, that's nonsense.

Well you certainly can't believe everything you see on the web, but that is what the web page showed. It had pics and everything. I could be wrong but I believe the game that he plugged into the Master System was one of the Poker Face Paul Game Gear game's, because I had never heard of it at the time. But I remember the pics quite well and how the color pallet was all messed up, but you could still make everything out.

Again it could have been fake, I never really gave it a second thought, because I could care less about the game. Had it been Shining Force II: Sword of Hijya however, I would have been freaking out and already tried it myself. LOL

geezuzkhrist119

03-26-2011, 10:14 PM

is there a cart that you can play gamegear games on a master system?
something like the super gameboy.

i know that the gamegear is the same as the sms but handheld

fahlim003

03-26-2011, 10:17 PM

is there a cart that you can play gamegear games on a master system?
something like the super gameboy.
No, no such thing exists. There is the Master Gear which allows you to play SMS on Game Gear but...

i know that the gamegear is the same as the sms but handheld
Also no. They're close but the problem lies in the fact Game Gear displays more colours which poses a problem when trying to run GG on SMS without some patching.

Pantechnicon

03-26-2011, 10:21 PM

There's no such animal. The main hurdle here is that the Game Gear actually supports more colors than the SMS (4096 to 256, I believe), so the hardware isn't a perfect match.

It is, however, possible to play SMS on Game Gear. I have an adapter that allows for this.

Kiddo

03-26-2011, 10:30 PM

What game might you be interested in playing on a SMS?

There have been various hacking projects to convert Game Gear exclusives into SMS ROMs.

tubeway

03-26-2011, 11:06 PM

Alternatively, there may have been hacks for Game Gears to send output to TV.

Jorpho

03-26-2011, 11:41 PM

What say we just merge this with http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126389 ?

allyourblood

03-26-2011, 11:53 PM

I'd love to have some sort of "consolized" Game Gear to play games on a TV with a controller. The screen is so hideous to my eyes these days that I can't stand to play the thing for very long anymore. Funny that I used to think it looked so impressive in its heyday. Sega was so quick to fire off all sorts of crazy add-ons for the Genesis -- funny that they never made a Game Gear-to-Genesis cartridge.

(I've tried making do with emulators, but as always, I can't seem to play them for more than a minute or two before I quit; for whatever weird reason, I have to play from the original cartridge on the original hardware.)

tomaitheous

03-27-2011, 01:18 AM

There's no such animal. The main hurdle here is that the Game Gear actually supports more colors than the SMS (4096 to 256, I believe), so the hardware isn't a perfect match.

256? I remember when EGM or some magazine misprinted that. It's 4096 vs 64.