Nintendo Patents Difficulty Solution For Casual Gamers-UPDATED [Archive]

The 1 2 P

01-09-2009, 06:26 PM

Now here's an interesting article on how Nintendo plans to level the playing field for casual gamers: http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/news/nintendo-patents-solution-for-putting-difficult-game-sections-on-autopilot-/

Essencially this would be like a youtube cheat video except it would be right there in the game. I could have really used something like this when I played Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time.

Edit: Update is on the last page in my lastest comment.

Overbite

01-09-2009, 06:30 PM

Why dont they have a mode where the game plays itself, that will help casual gamers a lot more.

Icarus Moonsight

01-09-2009, 06:47 PM

Apparently, you've never played, or see someone walk away from a game that was crippled by brutal difficulty. Get it through your skull man. If you've been playing games for years, this. is. not. for. you.

Explain strategy guides and walkthroughs then... it's pretty much the same thing. I don't know a single long time gamer that hasn't used them or doesn't own them.

DrKwack

01-09-2009, 07:19 PM

They should just take all their extra time and make better games

SegaAges

01-09-2009, 07:32 PM

Well, there are difficult games and there are easy games. If you start playing a game that is too difficult for you, well then, I think you should find another game. Why do I not care? I have busted my ass over the years to hone in on my skills and to have somebody pwning my high score because the game played itself is simply weak sauce with extra cheese. The youtube video type deal is awesome. I am all for that, but when the game starts playing itself because you can't, well, it is too bad it is not out for 360. I would get a game, put it on the hardest difficulty, and rack in the acheivement points without even touching the controller.

Videos to help: awesome idea
Game playing itself: No, stick to wii music if you can't handle guitar hero. That is why the game is out there

This gives me an opportunity to post an awesome quote from the driving instructor dude as he is yelling at the asain girl in gone in 60 seconds:

Aw, c'mon. It's no big deal.
You can't drive. You can't.
Time to acknowledge it and move on. I
can't swim. I know I can't. So you
know what I do? I stay the fuck outta
the pool ...

and besides, if they want a game that does that, there is already one out there:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31KLlfpMVfL._SL500_AA225_.jpg

Chainclaw

01-09-2009, 08:45 PM

This is what the older brother in every family ends up doing for his siblings. I used to have to solve tough sections in games all the time.

walrusmonger

01-09-2009, 08:52 PM

Autopilot= stupid. You want to watch events unfold-> pop a dvd in instead of a game... oh wait, you can't do that on the Wii.

A sliding difficulty bar is one thing, but to have the game play itself is another. The pop up hints are *very* cool for puzzle orient games like silent hill, but they should be strictly limited or worked into the game somehow. If you want help, buy the strat guide.

Nintendo is smart in trying to get the entire casual market in their hands, the only problem is that the games that would require this type of help are the minority on the Wii.

Kitsune Sniper

01-09-2009, 08:57 PM

... Is this even legal?

The 1 2 P

01-09-2009, 09:21 PM

... Is this even legal?

Are you serious? Tell me you are kidding. Why would it be illegal?

kupomogli

01-09-2009, 10:05 PM

The gameplay shown on-screen would likely come from a developer of the game.

I'll probably see an application for a resume coming in the mail someday.

Kitsune Sniper

01-09-2009, 10:11 PM

Are you serious? Tell me you are kidding. Why would it be illegal?

I didn't mean illegal, just... beyond the scopes of patents.

There's lots of games that do this already, mostly during training modes. So I'm not sure how this got approved.

geneshifter

01-09-2009, 10:31 PM

I didn't mean illegal, just... beyond the scopes of patents.

There's lots of games that do this already, mostly during training modes. So I'm not sure how this got approved.

Yeah, I see what you are saying. I remember a few years ago when a christian group started a company to take out all cussing and nudity/violence from movies. They were busted and found infringing on copyrights if I remember correctly.

JSoup

01-09-2009, 10:33 PM

Why dont they have a mode where the game plays itself, that will help casual gamers a lot more.

In other words, you want them to make another Sonic Rush?

scooterb23

01-09-2009, 10:38 PM

So many games are just glorified interactive movies...I don't really see a problem with them making it easier for folks who get stuck to at least see the ending of the story.

The 1 2 P

01-09-2009, 10:43 PM

I didn't mean illegal, just... beyond the scopes of patents.

There's lots of games that do this already, mostly during training modes. So I'm not sure how this got approved.

I see what you are saying. I'm guessing that they patented it in case it cetches on. That way Sony and Microsoft wouldn't be able to implore the exact same technique in a smiliar way.....atleast in theory.

slip81

01-09-2009, 10:54 PM

pretty soon best buy will be selling new geek squad packages where they go in, set up the console and then beat the first few levels to get you started.

Push Upstairs

01-09-2009, 11:18 PM

So....people pay $20-30 to have the game play itself?

Maybe time should be spent by developers balancing gameplay instead of coding sections of a game with "autopilot" functions.

Rob2600

01-09-2009, 11:53 PM

I remember Atari 2600 games featured many different modes of difficulty, including children's modes.

Gameguy

01-10-2009, 12:29 AM

Why bother even buying the game? Just watch a play through on youtube, there's already plenty up there for just about any game. That should be good enough for someone just wanting to see what happens.

Though it would be funny if a game was so bad, it couldn't even play through a part on it's own. LOL

Melf

01-10-2009, 12:32 AM

They didn't play the game for you though.

Kitsune Sniper

01-10-2009, 12:40 AM

I see what you are saying. I'm guessing that they patented it in case it cetches on. That way Sony and Microsoft wouldn't be able to implore the exact same technique in a smiliar way.....atleast in theory.

See, that's the point - how can they patent something that's been done before in games for YEARS already?

maxlords

01-10-2009, 01:54 AM

They're patenting the method. And it just says they filed.

Anyway, I'd slay for this function for a couple of games...notably Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, which I find completely unplayable due to extreme left-handedness.

joedick

01-10-2009, 10:15 AM

I'm not sure why this bothers people. I think it's a great compromise between the casual and hardcore gamers. If the option is there you don't have to use it. Why would you care if somebody else did?

Some gamers seem to have an irrational fear of casual gamers changing the way games are played. I guess they didn't see the sales numbers for Call of Duty, Gears of War 2, Grand Theft Auto 4...and that's just 2008! The two groups CAN co-exisit!

Iron Draggon

01-10-2009, 11:20 AM

Why dont they have a mode where the game plays itself, that will help casual gamers a lot more.

I've often wished that I could just sit back and watch all my games play themselves perfectly, so I could see them all from start to finish the way they were meant to be played, and not have to bother getting stuck on some insane bullshit that no human could ever do without a cheat device!

rbudrick

01-10-2009, 01:06 PM

geneshifter

01-10-2009, 01:13 PM

I've often wished that I could just sit back and watch all my games play themselves perfectly, so I could see them all from start to finish the way they were meant to be played, and not have to bother getting stuck on some insane bullshit that no human could ever do without a cheat device!

LOL, I felt this way with one game in particular: Ikaruga!

tom

01-10-2009, 01:40 PM

Why dont they have a mode where the game plays itself, that will help casual gamers a lot more.

Pokemon Channel

The 1 2 P

01-10-2009, 07:32 PM

So basically, games will have built-in speed runs.

Not quite. The article says "the CPU plays through a tough section for the player". It doesn't say anything about watching the computer beat the entire game for you. And even if it had that option(which I doubt it would) it's not like you have to watch it. As I said in my original post about this story, I would have loved to have had something like this when I played Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time. I mean, you only have so much time in a day to repeat playing the same step over and over again. And there are actually tons of games out there where this feature would come in handy, for both casual and hardcore gamers.

c0ldb33r

01-10-2009, 08:48 PM

See, that's the point - how can they patent something that's been done before in games for YEARS already?
That's an interesting point. In order for something to qualify for patent, the applicant must be able to show that it's (1) an invention - e.g. not something naturally occuring, and (2) new. What you're saying it that it's simply not new.

The patent office doesn't really hold applicants to a very high standard in proving either of those two requirements. They simply don't have the time, money or man power to do a complete and thorough examination of each and every patent application. So, some slip through even if they shouldn't.

That doesn't mean that the patent will withstand a court action. A patent being registered simply creates the presumption that it is a valid presumption. If an interested party can prove to a court that the patent shouldn't have been granted, then the court will remove the patent protection. Parties challenging a patent will have to introduce expert evidence showing that the requirements for patent protection were not met and that the patent shouldn't have been granted.

As for this particular difficulty solution for casual gamers, if you don't like it, don't worry about it. I'm sure games will have an option to turn off auto-assist.

kupomogli

01-11-2009, 10:55 AM

What about high scores? Will they calculate scores for the game playing for you or will your score drop back to 0 as it's technically "you suck, so we're doing it for you or you'd continue a million times."

SegaAges

01-11-2009, 03:17 PM

Yeah. Think of leaderboards where everybody uses the developer to get through parts instead of doing it themselves.

That is the crappy part. I also agree with others, if you want a movie, go watch a movie.

If you want to play a game, play it.

And the Geek Squad post = epic win!

djbeatmongrel

01-11-2009, 03:38 PM

conceptually i think this is pretty cool. really i find myself walking away from games when i get stuck on insane parts at times and having something the could move you over hiccups or atleast show you how to do it could potentially help someone experience the full story of a game.

I do think if 360 games used something like this the should be some penalization into achievements. something like this has potential is implemented correctly

The 1 2 P

01-12-2009, 08:45 PM

Here's an update: http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/208556/will-nintendos-kind-code-ruin-your-games/

In this update it states that although you could watch a game play on auto pilot the entire way thru, you can NOT save your progress after that. Translation: as stated in the original story I posted, all this does is show you how to beat specific areas which you deem too difficult to accomplish on your own.

Example: you have to get four stories down and there are no steps, ladders, etc. You activate the auto-pilot and it shows you actually what to do. As soon as it's done showing you, YOU still have to do it yourself in order to proceed. However, there are other modes in this auto-pilot solution that would let you start at later parts in the game as opposed to starting from the beginning. I'm still curious to see exactly how they will pull this all off.

shaggy

01-13-2009, 11:47 AM

Even with the non-save feature I still think this would ruin the game for people. What's the point of playing? I can see its usefullness, though.

Icarus Moonsight

01-13-2009, 12:54 PM

Built in walkthroughs. Nice idea actually. This is going to piss Brady Games off royal. :hmm: I guess this is why Nintendo dumped Strat guides along with NP.

For all your fear mongering people... *tsk tsk*

tom

01-13-2009, 04:35 PM

chicnstu

01-13-2009, 05:18 PM

Even with the non-save feature I still think this would ruin the game for people.

I'm not sure why this bothers people. I think it's a great compromise between the casual and hardcore gamers. If the option is there you don't have to use it. Why would you care if somebody else did?
Message too short.

blissfulnoise

01-13-2009, 06:01 PM

So basically, games will have built-in speed runs. I can only hope there are built-in penalties for using such cheats, such as not getting the full ending or something. Also, I hope developers would be smart enough to know when not to include such features in a given game.

-Rob

Agreed. There needs to still be some sort of carrot available to justify playing through boring parts of a game.

Overall, I think this is an idea that will impact gamers in a negative way. You can argue that you have the choice to use the option or not, but the idea of allowing Wii Punch-Out auto pilot to Mr. Dream verses earning it through beating Mr. Sandman and Sodi Popinski seems detrimental to enjoying the game and may compromise quality, length, and playability as a whole. Likewise seeing and playing through everything Sin and Punishment 2 has to offer verses using the auto-pilot to skip the hard parts.

It diminishes the achievement of earning the right to play and enjoy the more advanced levels. As a result, it makes you a poorer player for not playing through the (theoretical) difficulty curb so you'd be skilled enough to beat the game in the first place.

That said, the code to get right to the Dynamite Kid is burned into my brain (007-373-5963... from memory). The difference is that unless you've really mastered Punch-Out you've got NO chance of knocking Tyson out.

Regardless, all this boils down to is Nintendo trying to generate Wii Sports and Wii Fit like sales numbers for all first party releases to justify making Wii Punch Out and Wii Kid Icarus in the first place. If it means we can get some solid first party Wii games, then do whatever it takes. But I'd much rather them stick with an "easy" mode that will show the newer gamers how to play the game, and let them enjoy a portion of it, but make it mandatory to improve and go up to a harder difficulty level to play all of it. This is a win-win for everyone without having to compromise a core value to gaming in the first place; challenge.

Kitsune Sniper

01-13-2009, 07:46 PM

As for this particular difficulty solution for casual gamers, if you don't like it, don't worry about it. I'm sure games will have an option to turn off auto-assist.

It's not the fact that they're doing in-game playthroughs that bothers me.

It's the fact that if they patent it, they'll be forcing people to pay them money in order to include in-game walkthroughs.

That's patent trolling 101.

rbudrick

01-14-2009, 01:02 AM

It's not the fact that they're doing in-game playthroughs that bothers me.

It's the fact that if they patent it, they'll be forcing people to pay them money in order to include in-game walkthroughs.

That's patent trolling 101.

Word.

That, and there would be no point in playing a game like say, Shadowgate or something like that EVER after seeing it played through. Maybe to read all the descriptions of items and see the hilarious deaths and such, but folks who breeze their way through in this fashion aren't interested in such stuff anyway. Many gamers nowadays have zero attention span for such awesomeness and detail.

However, you know who will also benefit? Gamestop. They will buy and sell new and used games MUCH faster this way.

-Rob

The 1 2 P

06-16-2009, 03:44 PM

New Super Mario Bros Wii will be the first Nintendo game to debut this new demo play (http://www.industrygamers.com/news/nintendo-to-debut-demo-play-in-new-super-mario-bros-wii/)

j_factor

06-17-2009, 03:43 AM

If it's anything like New Super Mario Bros. DS, the feature will be entirely unnecessary.

Nature Boy

06-17-2009, 04:24 PM

Overall, I think this is an idea that will impact gamers in a negative way. You can argue that you have the choice to use the option or not, but the idea of allowing Wii Punch-Out auto pilot to Mr. Dream verses earning it through beating Mr. Sandman and Sodi Popinski seems detrimental to enjoying the game and may compromise quality, length, and playability as a whole.

What somebody else does playing a game, on their own, has *zero* impact on me. It's their decision, and it takes *absolutely nothing* away from my own personal sense of accomplishment OR my enjoyment of the game.

What do I care if somebody else decides to 'ruin' (my opinion) a game that way? In their eyes they're just happy they saw the end, and both opinions are valid.

I am most curious about the whole patent thing. Are they patenting a name for it perhaps? You know, something they could stamp on the box that lets potential buyers know it's a feature since it's been heavily marketed as such. Something like "Nintendoes-it-for-You?" :)

Hep038

06-17-2009, 09:45 PM

I cannot wait for Nintendo to come out with a game that will wipe my butt for me. It is going to be totally awesome!

Wii wipe your butt.

Famidrive-16

06-17-2009, 11:29 PM

If it's anything like New Super Mario Bros. DS, the feature will be entirely unnecessary.

From what I've read of people who played the E3 demo the new levels are much more challenging.

crom

06-17-2009, 11:49 PM

Well, there are difficult games and there are easy games. If you start playing a game that is too difficult for you, well then, I think you should find another game. Why do I not care? I have busted my ass over the years to hone in on my skills and to have somebody pwning my high score because the game played itself is simply weak sauce with extra cheese. The youtube video type deal is awesome. I am all for that, but when the game starts playing itself because you can't, well, it is too bad it is not out for 360. I would get a game, put it on the hardest difficulty, and rack in the acheivement points without even touching the controller.

Videos to help: awesome idea
Game playing itself: No, stick to wii music if you can't handle guitar hero. That is why the game is out there

This gives me an opportunity to post an awesome quote from the driving instructor dude as he is yelling at the asain girl in gone in 60 seconds:

and besides, if they want a game that does that, there is already one out there:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31KLlfpMVfL._SL500_AA225_.jpg

Autopilot= stupid. You want to watch events unfold-> pop a dvd in instead of a game... oh wait, you can't do that on the Wii.

A sliding difficulty bar is one thing, but to have the game play itself is another. The pop up hints are *very* cool for puzzle orient games like silent hill, but they should be strictly limited or worked into the game somehow. If you want help, buy the strat guide.

Nintendo is smart in trying to get the entire casual market in their hands, the only problem is that the games that would require this type of help are the minority on the Wii.

hail to these post...

hail...

Famidrive-16

06-18-2009, 12:44 AM

If you want help, buy the strat guide.

that goddamn sonic 3 strat guide i bought when i was eight didn't help me at all for that barrel room

so i'm okay with this feature

otaku

06-18-2009, 12:44 AM

I love this idea as I tend to suck at games haha so I like having the option of cheating. The patent thing is worrying though if it prevents others from doing it without paying nintendo or being denied the ability to etc

Mac Tonight

06-18-2009, 07:03 PM

Rickstilwell1

06-18-2009, 08:08 PM

that goddamn sonic 3 strat guide i bought when i was eight didn't help me at all for that barrel room

so i'm okay with this feature

You know what did help me past that part? An autofire controller and bubble shield. B-b-b-b-b-boom! Bounced through.

Kitsune Sniper

06-18-2009, 08:27 PM

This really is a non-issue.

If you don't like the feature (and I don't imagine anyone here, myself included, does), don't use it. The days of non-compromised game difficulty ended the moment that the first Game Genie was strapped like a condom on an NES cart.

Just have fun with the games. If you want to play them with integrity, continue to do so. If the next generation of kids can never appreciate the true feel of accomplishment when beating a video game, it's their loss. It just gives me one more reason to be thankful to be a product of the 80s.

I said this months ago:

It's not the fact that they're doing in-game playthroughs that bothers me.

It's the fact that if they patent it, they'll be forcing people to pay them money in order to include in-game walkthroughs.

That's patent trolling 101.

The patent would potentially include even short instructional walkthroughs that teach you how to use a weapon or perform a move. Stuff that games have been doing for decades. That's PURE PATENT TROLLING.

Kid Ice

06-18-2009, 08:47 PM

Wipeout HD has something called "pilot assist", which is supposed to help you avoid crashing into walls. Since avoiding crashing into walls is more or less the point of the entire game, I set this feature to off.

However, many more casual gamers would simply like to fly around really fast and listen to techno. Fine by me.

"finishing" or "beating" a video game is not an "accomplishment" or an "achievement". Just because the clever marketers have tapped into your adolescent instinct for chest thumping, it doesn't make you superior to the kid down the street who just wants to play the game for fun.

ScourDX

06-20-2009, 12:08 AM

If Nintendo starts doing this, might as well just make a movie instead of playing.

The 1 2 P

06-20-2009, 07:10 PM

It's pretty much like an interactive walk thru(which they already have dvds for a few last gen games such as Chronicles of Riddick, Hitman and TMNT). Plus, it isn't mandatory so it shouldn't matter to those who aren't interested in using this feature.

unwinddesign

06-21-2009, 12:01 AM

I'm not sure what use this feature is. Seems like it defeats the purpose of "playing." 90% of modern games I can beat on Hard mode if I sat down and tried. In the SNES games, that figure would probably be at like 10% (granted I was like 7 at the time, but most of them are still ridiculously difficult). Games are pretty easy and forgiving these days anyways. In Call of Duty 4's easy mode it's almost impossible to die, even if you've never played the game before.

I don't care, but I have to wonder why Nintendo spent money developing such a feature. Are gamers really clamoring for this type of stuff?

chicnstu

06-21-2009, 01:29 PM

I don't care, but I have to wonder why Nintendo spent money developing such a feature. Are gamers really clamoring for this type of stuff?

I'm sure my sister would love to have this in most of the games she plays. She has me do the parts she has trouble with. She tries so hard to play Zelda and Gears of War because she loves watching people play them, but it ends up being all she's able to do, just watch.

The 1 2 P

06-22-2009, 06:08 PM

I'm sure my sister would love to have this in most of the games she plays. She has me do the parts she has trouble with. She tries so hard to play Zelda and Gears of War because she loves watching people play them, but it ends up being all she's able to do, just watch.

I have a niece who I use to do the same thing for. Back during the PS1 days she loved Crash Team Racing but I had to complete the harder challange races for her so that she could get everything 100% complete. People like her and your sister will whole heartedly welcome this new feature, while people like us will continue gaming the way we have for years.

I would only use this feature once I beat a game, just to see if the computer did it any differently.

Mac Tonight

06-23-2009, 12:50 AM

Kitsune Sniper: It may be patent trolling, but I can't see that as being very important. I suppose if you're a game developer who is hell bent on including an in-game tutorial, it may be a financial burden, but for the everyday gamer/collector, it really doens't matter too much.

I'm far from a Nintendo apologist (my newest generation Nintendo system is an SNES), but I have to say kudos to them for being clever enough to patent it before anyone else. Good artists copy; great artists steal.