Sony is in shock

[Iron Draggon]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Sony-shock-again-Slump-may-apf-14043766.html

[mr obscure]

Sony is in trouble,big time

1. the economic crisis is not helping them.(not only playstations,but tv's and all electronics they make don't sell.)
2.they are losing the console war on all fronts,xbox is getting all of the hardcore gamers and online freaks. Nintendo is selling wii's to everybody and claiming the casual gamers market.Sony is a grey market,they need to do something fast.

[Oobgarm]

I thought we knew this already. :hmm:

[roushimsx]

I guess people are just fed up with their overpriced and underperforming tvs and cameras finally!

[Trebuken]

I believe the PS3 is selling nearly as well asthe 360 did at the same point in its life-cycle. It's tough to tell if the software side is selling as well but it might be.

Despite the gloom and doom, Blu-Ray is thriving so Sony has that one thing going their way. Might not be enough...

[jajaja]

How does the "operating loss" work again, does it mean that they didnt have any profit when all the expences were payed?

EDIT: It wasnt like that it seems. From the article it says:


In October, Sony lowered its operating forecast for the fiscal year ending March 31 to 200 billion yen ($2.2 billion) profit from an earlier 470 billion yen ($5.3 billion) it gave in July. It is expecting 150 billion yen ($1.7 billion) net profit, which includes taxes and extraordinary items.
Seems that Sony will still make profit though :)



I guess people are just fed up with their overpriced and underperforming tvs and cameras finally!
Underpreforming TVs? Maybe some of the Sony models, but my parents have a Sony Bravia W4500 40" LCD TV, and i think the quality is great! :)



I believe the PS3 is selling nearly as well asthe 360 did at the same point in its life-cycle. It's tough to tell if the software side is selling as well but it might be.

Despite the gloom and doom, Blu-Ray is thriving so Sony has that one thing going their way. Might not be enough...
Ye, i think the PS3 is selling about the same as the Xbox 360 did at the same point in its life-cycle as you say :)

[carlcarlson]

Surprise! Wait, no it's not.

Either way Sony makes one heck of an HD tv.

[megasdkirby]

I guess people are just fed up with their overpriced and underperforming tvs and cameras finally!

True.

At the store, the only reason they sell is because of one important factor...cause it's Sony!

"If it's Sony, it has to be good."

Sure...then they end up returning the item unsatisfied and leave with a Canon or Nikon...then they come back saying how wonderful those said cameras are compared to the Sony they originally purchased...

[jajaja]

True.

At the store, the only reason they sell is because of one important factor...cause it's Sony!

"If it's Sony, it has to be good."

Sure...then they end up returning the item unsatisfied and leave with a Canon or Nikon...then they come back saying how wonderful those said cameras are compared to the Sony they originally purchased...
Why do people think that Sony is a good/important brand in the first place (i would assume they think so at least since people buy Sony products) if the Sony products arent good? Because of marketing? Wouldnt the word to mouth (through reviews and through people/friends that have bought a Sony product) have spread much faster on how that the Sony products arent good, which might have resulted in that Sony wouldnt have made an overall profit?

[heybtbm]

1. the economic crisis is not helping them.(not only playstations,but tv's and all electronics they make don't sell.)

I only buy Sony electronics. No complaints from me for the past 18 years. My LCD, surround sound, DVD player, digital cameras, camcorder, laptop...all Sony. They make excellent products IMO.

[kaedesdisciple]

If anything, companies that AREN'T having financial troubles these days should make the news. The crisis is hitting everyone worldwide. We live in a globally interdependent world, reports like this don't surprise me one bit. I just wait to see who will be next to post a loss.

Also, +1 for Sony's awesome quality TV's. I have a 46" Bravia W series and the thing is all kinds of awesome. For cameras, I'll stick with Canon & Nikon, but you can't deny the quality of Sony TV's.

[megasdkirby]

Why do people think that Sony is a good/important brand in the first place if the Sony products are crap? It cant all be because of the marketing? Wouldnt the word to mouth (through reviews and through people/friends that have bought a Sony product) have spread much faster on how that the Sony products arent good, which might have resulted in that Sony wouldnt have made an overall profit?

I see your point, but when you see the amount of returns received DAILY at the store, and in every other store, I've come to realize that something is wrong.

Out of all the cameras and TVs sold, the most returned this holiday season (for instance) were Sony products. Followed by Vizio products.

Camera wise, the mayority returned are Sony's, particularly certain models, like the W120, S750, and T77. Why? Almost all complaints are universal: quality bites. They choose another camera (I always recommend Canon or Nikon) and they NEVER return it.

Cybershot S730 cams were frequently returned because the flash would crap out after a few uses. Same as S650 and S700.

TV's are returned for similar reasons, and what do people choose? Samsung or Sharp TV's. And returns on those are slim.

I know I've mentioned this several times, but I work at retail and I see this every day. Playstation consoles don't fare much well either, as they are returned much frequently than Xbox 360 and Wii consoles! I would have though X360 would have a higher return rate, but still, it's very surprising.

From experience, I can say that although Sony products are ok overall, they simply aren't the best as many customers believe.

Also, about "word of mouth", remember that many are stubborn and only focus on one particular brand, most of the time being Sony. For example, a person comes in and wants an LCD TV. Cool right? You start showing different brands and the customer right away says "I want Sony BECAUSE ITS SONY." At this point I simply look in awe but oblige to the customers demands and I show them Sony. They start talking about how they are the best, and that nothing beats Sony (ha!). They purchase and leave...only to return a few days later complaining that their new product failed to meet their expectations.

This has happened many times, mostly in Div.57 (TVs).

This is also the reason why I refuse to sell TV's and only focus on cameras. Don't want to spend an hour catering to the customers needs for a Sony product only to have it returned later on...specially when it's a $4,000 TV. No thanks.

[Nebagram]

I used to think that Sony products were naturally superior, then I bought my LG DVD recorder and haven't looked back since.

Sony'll bounce back on the whole but the PS3 will be more of a burden than a help.

[geneshifter]

I've also had bad luck similar to your customers with Sony stuff. Their cameras and camcorders suck big time and I've tried a bunch. Also, I had a Sony laptop once and it was a loud piece of junk with a screen issue. Sony TV's seem to be pretty good except I had a bad one several years ago and my parents just had bad luck with one last year. The only Sony products I have ever had that worked was a Sony water resistant portable radio and a landline telephone both of which I still use.

I think that Sony used to be much better but these days they are slipping. Those still loyal to Sony are stuck in the 90s when they were better quality. Lots of better products are out there now.

Back to topic, Sony has been investing a lot of cash into things like OLEDs. They may have a temporary downturn but I expect them to be around for a long time with these technologies. I also think the PS3 will eventually help them IF they can carve a niche out for it, specifically a lot more exclusive games (duh!).

[jajaja]

I see your point, but when you see the amount of returns received DAILY at the store, and in every other store, I've come to realize that something is wrong.

Out of all the cameras and TVs sold, the most returned this holiday season (for instance) were Sony products. Followed by Vizio products.

Camera wise, the mayority returned are Sony's, particularly certain models, like the W120, S750, and T77. Why? Almost all complaints are universal: quality bites. They choose another camera (I always recommend Canon or Nikon) and they NEVER return it.

Cybershot S730 cams were frequently returned because the flash would crap out after a few uses. Same as S650 and S700.

TV's are returned for similar reasons, and what do people choose? Samsung or Sharp TV's. And returns on those are slim.

I know I've mentioned this several times, but I work at retail and I see this every day. Playstation consoles don't fare much well either, as they are returned much frequently than Xbox 360 and Wii consoles! I would have though X360 would have a higher return rate, but still, it's very surprising.

From experience, I can say that although Sony products are ok overall, they simply aren't the best as many customers believe.

What source are you taking this info from? How big is the return rate compared to how many people that have bought the products?



Also, about "word of mouth", remember that many are stubborn and only focus on one particular brand, most of the time being Sony. For example, a person comes in and wants an LCD TV. Cool right? You start showing different brands and the customer right away says "I want Sony BECAUSE ITS SONY." At this point I simply look in awe but oblige to the customers demands and I show them Sony. They start talking about how they are the best, and that nothing beats Sony (ha!). They purchase and leave...only to return a few days later complaining that their new product failed to meet their expectations.

This has happened many times, mostly in Div.57 (TVs).

This is also the reason why I refuse to sell TV's and only focus on cameras. Don't want to spend an hour catering to the customers needs for a Sony product only to have it returned later on...specially when it's a $4,000 TV. No thanks.
Sure, there are many stuborn people that only want a particlar brand like Sony as you mention, but why do they want a Sony TV in the first place? Where did they get this idea from that Sony is the best? If they think that Sony TVs are the best, and then they come home and see that the quality isnt good enough, at last compared to their expecations, is it then likely that they will still think that Sony is the best?

As you say, people return the TV and say their new product failed to meet their expectations, which makes me assume that after an experience like this they dont think that Sony is the best anymore. Wouldnt this translate to bad word to mouth?


EDIT: I added some text.

[carlcarlson]

Sure, there are many stuborn people that only want a particlar brand like Sony as you mention, but why do they want a Sony TV in the first place? Where did they get this idea from that Sony is the best?

Personally I got that idea by going to countless stores and staring at the walls of TVs. The best picture I saw was on a $3000+ Sony TV. The second best was on a $900 Samsung (which I bought). Overpriced? Yeah, probably, but in my opinion they make the best HD TVs.

[jajaja]

Personally I got that idea by going to countless stores and staring at the walls of TVs. The best picture I saw was on a $3000+ Sony TV. The second best was on a $900 Samsung (which I bought). Overpriced? Yeah, probably, but in my opinion they make the best HD TVs.
Was that the only Sony TV on display and was the price clearly shown? If this was the only Sony TV on display and if the $3000 price tag wasnt clearly shown, then i can understand that people think that Sony TVs in general are the best, and i then understand that people might be dissapointed with the picture quality if they buy a Sony TV for like $1000 and if they are expecting to get the exact same quality as that $3000 TV (a more expencive price doesnt necessarily means that the quality is so much better though just to underline that :)).

[Deadman]

I only buy Sony electronics. No complaints from me for the past 18 years. My LCD, surround sound, DVD player, digital cameras, camcorder, laptop...all Sony. They make excellent products IMO.

I actually avoid buying Sony whenever possible. I've never gotten any Sony product that was so far superior to it's competitors that it's worth the extra 20% or so that Sonys tend to cost. Canon cameras, Pioneer audio and video, Toshiba/Mitsubishi/Panasonic TV's, and just about any computer manufacturer will give equal or better quality for a whole lot less. Some people like to pay more for a name they are familiar with (apple, sony) but I do my research and find the best price on the best product.

[carlcarlson]

No it wasn't the only Sony TV, and yes the price was clearly marked. This was definitely one of their high-end units.

And anyone buying a TV without seeing it in action is kind of shooting themselves in the foot. Even if Sony is the best their low-end TV isn't going to match a high-end Samsung or comparable brand. Don't buy for the brand, buy for the actual product.


Some people like to pay more for a name they are familiar with (apple, sony) but I do my research and find the best price on the best product.

Ha, like that! That's the way to do it.

[smork]

I think that Sony used to be much better but these days they are slipping. Those still loyal to Sony are stuck in the 90s when they were better quality. Lots of better products are out there now.

This.

Though my buddy recently bought a new F series laptop from Sony and it looked/felt great. Almost made me jealous, sort of.

When I demo'd TVs a year ago I found the Sony X series to be my second favorite TV (my favorite was the Toshiba Z series that I bought). The Sony looked great, but my Toshiba had better features (built in web browsing, built in PVR software, USB jacks for NAS and keyboard/mouse), a bit better picture quality (shockingly good), and it was 20% cheaper than the Sony.

I think Sony's prices are just too high for their current reputation. They probably should pick a few core businesses they do well and stick to those (no more cameras, no more stupid proprietary memory formats - music players, TVs, and the PS3, which is a well-built piece of work).

[megasdkirby]

What source are you taking this info from? How big is the return rate compared to how many people that have bought the products?

First hand in the store. Remember, I work at Sears and I see these returns daily. I work in the electronics section, which involves TVs and cameras. I am a sales person there. Plus I have to deal with irate customers who come complaining when this happens...which gets annoying, so I basically look at who sold the item to them and I redirect them with the same associate.

This is pure speculation/approximation, but I would say around 60% of what is sold is Sony stuff. Around perhaps 45%-%50 (of the after mentioned 60%) percent are returned and marked as "991", or used merchandise. This in turn is resold as a "slightly" lower price. I write "slightly" because some times the lower price for it being used is HIGHER. Dunno how administration thinks, to be honest... boggles the mind LOL



Sure, there are many stuborn people that only want a particlar brand like Sony as you mention, but why do they want a Sony TV in the first place? Where did they get this idea from that Sony is the best? If they think that Sony TVs are the best, and then they come home and see that the quality isnt good enough, at last compared to their expecations, is it then likely that they will still think that Sony is the best?

Not always. I've had customers come to me and say "Busco Sony porque mi novia me dijo que es la mejor marca" (I am looking for Sony because my girlfriend told me it was the best brand) or "Busco Sony porque todos en el trabajo tienen Sony y quiero la misma" (I'm looking for Sony because everyone at work has them and I want the same one). It's rare for me to get customers that want Sony because of personal experience (an item they once had). And in some circumstances, I've had the same customers come to me with a return stating "No entiendo porque esta salio mala si yo he tenido Sony y no se me han danado" (I don't understand why it turned out damaged since I've had Sony and they've never gotten damaged)

I'm not saying all Sony's are bad, because most returns are because of stupid ass reasons customers have, I believe many times because they can't pay for it. But I have to admit that a big number of the returns are products that either don't meet expectations or something happened to it. This was specially true with Cybershot S650 and onward.


As you say, people return the TV and say their new product failed to meet their expectations, which makes me assume that after an experience like this they dont think that Sony is the best anymore. Wouldnt this translate to bad word to mouth?

I have to admit that many returns, as stated previously, is simply because of stupid reasons customers give. This is why Sears, and many other stores, will reinstate the 15% restocking fee (it was taken out for some time). Why? To prevent unfair returns. Heck, many products were simply used ONE time and returned for no apparent reason! For example...a PPV boxing match. People would purchase an LCD TV just to see the fight and return it because "it didn't meet their expectations". But I can tell these apart, specially when I ask whether they want an exchange or a different model, and they simply want their money back. Honest returns I can identity faily quickly too, most being that the customer wants something else.

There are tricks one learns when working so long in retail.

I personally try NOT to sell Sony products, because of what has happened in the past. So far, I've had great success. Of course, if a customer wants a particular Sony model, I can't refuse the sale because I loose money and I can loose my job (bait and switch). But I am on the pessimist side: I always expect the customer to return it back. It does happen form time to time. But since I don't focus on Sony, my return rate is extremely low, which means better performance for me and more $$$ in my pocket.

But you are right: this should, in theory, cause sales to lower for Sony. But remember that many are masochists when it comes to brand name: they stick to it no matter what happens. I've had customers return many Olevia TVs and STILL want Olevia TVs. But hey, it's their problem.

[jajaja]

*Here comes a relatively long reply, sorry*



No it wasn't the only Sony TV, and yes the price was clearly marked. This was definitely one of their high-end units.

And anyone buying a TV without seeing it in action is kind of shooting themselves in the foot. Even if Sony is the best their low-end TV isn't going to match a high-end Samsung or comparable brand. Don't buy for the brand, buy for the actual product.
Ok :) Ye, i agree, i also think people should check out the picture quality on the TV (especially if the TV is relatively expencive) first before they buy it.




First hand in the store. Remember, I work at Sears and I see these returns daily. I work in the electronics section, which involves TVs and cameras. I am a sales person there. Plus I have to deal with irate customers who come complaining when this happens...which gets annoying, so I basically look at who sold the item to them and I redirect them with the same associate.
If it is based on experience from one store, then i would say this is anecdotal evidence, or do you have some sales and/or return data from other Sears stores too? I am not saying that what you write isnt the case in the store that you are working in, but you wrote previously that this situation about the Sony returns was in every other store. Anecdotal evidence might be how the situation(s) is in the market in general, but without any other evidence, i think that anecdotal evidence isnt enough to to see how the situation is in the market in general.



This is pure speculation/approximation, but I would say around 60% of what is sold is Sony stuff. Around perhaps 45%-%50 (of the after mentioned 60%) percent are returned and marked as "991", or used merchandise. This in turn is resold as a "slightly" lower price. I write "slightly" because some times the lower price for it being used is HIGHER. Dunno how administration thinks, to be honest... boggles the mind LOL
45%-50% out of 60% sounds alot, but that might be the case, unfortunately i have no idea :\ Do you know how many percentage of the stuff that your store is selling that are Sony branded?

The price for used stuff is higher than the price for the new and same stuff? If so, that is crazy indeed hehe :)





Not always. I've had customers come to me and say "Busco Sony porque mi novia me dijo que es la mejor marca" (I am looking for Sony because my girlfriend told me it was the best brand) or "Busco Sony porque todos en el trabajo tienen Sony y quiero la misma" (I'm looking for Sony because everyone at work has them and I want the same one). It's rare for me to get customers that want Sony because of personal experience (an item they once had). And in some circumstances, I've had the same customers come to me with a return stating "No entiendo porque esta salio mala si yo he tenido Sony y no se me han danado" (I don't understand why it turned out damaged since I've had Sony and they've never gotten damaged)
Ye, as you say, some people might buy Sony branded products just because their girlfriend or people at their work says that Sony is the best brand, but what about that girlfriend and those people at the work, where did they get the idea that Sony is the best brand? :) The understanding that Sony is the best brand must come from some place, where can it come from?



I'm not saying all Sony's are bad, because most returns are because of stupid ass reasons customers have, I believe many times because they can't pay for it. But I have to admit that a big number of the returns are products that either don't meet expectations or something happened to it. This was specially true with Cybershot S650 and onward.
Ye, i am not saying that every Sony product is good just to underline that. Sony has alot of products, so some of them are probably bound to not be so good. And as you say, there are probably some people that buy Sony branded products and that these products arent meeting people's expectations. I would think that this depends on what kind of expectations people have to the product(s). For example, if you buy a cheap TV, are people then expecting to get a crystal clear picture like the more high end TVs have?



I have to admit that many returns, as stated previously, is simply because of stupid reasons customers give. This is why Sears, and many other stores, will reinstate the 15% restocking fee (it was taken out for some time). Why? To prevent unfair returns. Heck, many products were simply used ONE time and returned for no apparent reason! For example...a PPV boxing match. People would purchase an LCD TV just to see the fight and return it because "it didn't meet their expectations". But I can tell these apart, specially when I ask whether they want an exchange or a different model, and they simply want their money back. Honest returns I can identity faily quickly too, most being that the customer wants something else.
Ye, some people are just returning the stuff for stupid reasons. We have a store chain where i live (in Scandinavia) that allows 30 days full return on their stuff (with some exceptions, like if you buy a game and remove the plastic seal, then you cant return it), so i guess people are taking advantage of this return system, but i dont know how many people that is doing this, or if it is many people that takes advantage of this return system.




There are tricks one learns when working so long in retail.

I personally try NOT to sell Sony products, because of what has happened in the past. So far, I've had great success. Of course, if a customer wants a particular Sony model, I can't refuse the sale because I loose money and I can loose my job (bait and switch). But I am on the pessimist side: I always expect the customer to return it back. It does happen form time to time. But since I don't focus on Sony, my return rate is extremely low, which means better performance for me and more $$$ in my pocket.
How are the returns on the other brands? If people are returning stuff they dont want as you mentioned earlier, is this affecting the other brands as well?



But you are right: this should, in theory, cause sales to lower for Sony. But remember that many are masochists when it comes to brand name: they stick to it no matter what happens. I've had customers return many Olevia TVs and STILL want Olevia TVs. But hey, it's their problem.
Ye, there are people who stick to a partical brand (or brands), i belive that too, but i just wanted to question if people are buying Sony products just because they are under the impression that Sony has good products, while the Sony products arent good :)

You first said something like that the only reason why Sony products are selling was because that "it's Sony, so it has to be good". I understood this that you ment that the Sony products werent of good quality and that it was the Sony brand alone that made the Sony product sellnot because that people actually found Sony products to be good. If this isnt what you ment, then i am sorry for the missunderstanding. That is why i asked all the question to see what you ment :)

But after reading the replies from you, then i know what you mean. Thanks for the answers! :)

[megasdkirby]

Ok :) Ye, i agree, i also think people should check out the picture quality on the TV (especially if the TV is relatively expencive) first before they buy it.

At the store, they do! But for some odd reason, they start complaining about "the picture is not as bright as it is here". The problem here is that many customers expect the image to be EXACTLY like the one they see in the store, not knowing they need an HDTV signal. And even when one tells them, it is as though they forget or they don't pay attention... LOL


If it is based on experience from one store, then i would say this is anecdotal evidence, or do you have some sales and/or return data from other Sears stores too? I am not saying that what you write isnt the case in the store that you are working in, but you wrote previously that this situation about the Sony returns was in every other store. Anecdotal evidence might be how the situation(s) is in the market in general, but without any other evidence, i think that anecdotal evidence isnt enough to to see how the situation is in the market in general.

Good question. At least we (as in the employees) can see what all other stores in the area have sold EXCEPT those that are independent franchises. Since they don't belong to the main company, data is not available from those stores. However, all other stores are *basically* the same (a few differences here and there, but nothing mayor), however it should be noted that the store I work in, and two other stores...the ones that make the most sales...suffer more from Sony returns than any of the other stores. Perhaps it's because of high volume sales, which could also mean high amount of returns.

I don't know about other stores, like Walmart and Costco. Would like to find out, but I don't think management will tell me if I ask them "Hey, how's your return rate?" I think they will kick me out if the store :p


45%-50% out of 60% sounds alot, but that might be the case, unfortunately i have no idea :\ Do you know how many percentage of the stuff that your store is selling that are Sony branded?

In the electronics division, around 60% sold is Sony stuff, give or take. Of course, this is because most of the items in stock are from Sony! This doesn't apply to the appliances division, since most of the items there are from Kenmore/Galaxy. But I am pretty sure that returns are based to sales volume: the more you sell, the more returns are to occur. It's pretty much inevitable.


The price for used stuff is higher than the price for the new and same stuff? If so, that is crazy indeed hehe :)

Here is an example, but be prepared to laugh like crazy! A camera is on special for $100, original price being $170. The item is purchased during this special and eventually returned. It is put up for sale again, but for $150, not $100. Why? Because they take into consideration the MSRP value instead of the special value! What's even funnier is when the price drops in price (normal price drop, not a special price) to the point that the normal price is cheaper than the "used" price! LOL LOL


Ye, as you say, some people might buy Sony branded products just because their girlfriend or people at their work says that Sony is the best brand, but what about that girlfriend and those people at the work, where did they get the idea that Sony is the best brand? :) The understanding that Sony is the best brand must come from some place, where can it come from?[/quote[

I'm guessing becuase of past experiences. Maybe they had an old TV or radio that worked great for years, so they recommend it for their friends and families. And I gotta admit, Sony stuff back them were infinitely better than the stuff they make now. But that's pretty much the same for all electronic equipment (IMO, all items made now are...finicky...they don't last as long).



[quote]For example, if you buy a cheap TV, are people then expecting to get a crystal clear picture like the more high end TVs have?

YES! And what is even funnier is the fact that many buy $4,000 TVs just to watch ONE channel THROUGH THE AIR!! Then they come back to the store complaining that their crappy program looks like shit. -_- I will be honest...I sometimes want to laugh in their faces, but I don't just to be respectful.


How are the returns on the other brands? If people are returning stuff they dont want as you mentioned earlier, is this affecting the other brands as well?

Although I refuse to sell TVs anymore, I do see the returns. I would say Vizio and Sylvania are the next in line for returns. A shame too, since those are good brands. Most of the times they return it for stupid reasons, or they simply don't know how to use it. Or people purchase it expecting the same quality of that of a more expensive TV. For instance, some return Vizio TVs (32" LCD for $500) just because it doesn't look as good as a $4,000 60" Sony LCD. People are idiots. LOL



You first said something like that the only reason why Sony products are selling was because that "it's Sony, so it has to be good". I understood this that you ment that the Sony products werent of good quality and that it was the Sony brand alone that made the Sony product sellnot because that people actually found Sony products to be good. If this isnt what you ment, then i am sorry for the missunderstanding. That is why i asked all the question to see what you ment :)

It's not about the quality per se, but due to people's mentality. It's virtually getting married to a particular brand. Many of the customers say the "It's Sony, so it has to be good" because in their eyes, Sony can do nothing else than excellent products. But this is actually a blind perception because other companies, like Panasonic, Sharp, Samsung all make equal or better products. But oh well...that's up to the customer.

[Itachi_the_fallen_god]

Wow a drop in stock. Not suprising considiring all the psp hackers there are who can download any game they want so they dont heve to pay and not to mention the PS3 is so damn expensive that not as many people bought taht as the ps2 or psp so the games are'nt selling as well as they used to. I just hope sony dosn't go to far under before they finish making final fantasy dissidia for psp. After that, i could care less what hapens to sony

[tom]

Sony eh?
Betamax, Mini Disc, and oh this was good:
http://www.videogamecollectors.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=202685&g2_serialNumber=2

[Sudo]

Wow a drop in stock. Not suprising considiring all the psp hackers there are who can download any game they want so they dont heve to pay and not to mention the PS3 is so damn expensive that not as many people bought taht as the ps2 or psp so the games are'nt selling as well as they used to. I just hope sony dosn't go to far under before they finish making final fantasy dissidia for psp. After that, i could care less what hapens to sony

Dissidia has been out for a a while in Japan, and Sony didn't make it. Also, these sensationalist threads are so stupid. It's not like Sony is the only company losing money in this shitty economy.

[eskobar]

I remember the Sony TV ads in the 90's : "Es un Sony" ("It's a Sony") with a Japanese accent in the announcer proudly voicing the ad.

I have always tried a wide range of products before i buy and I've ended up with Sony Products most of the times.

My 2 "point and shoot" cameras are Sony and they do a magnificent job, one costed 499 usd and the second costed 179 usd; i cannot expect similar performance because one is much more expensive but i use it for simpler things and i get the job done.

Same with the Sony TVs, i remember the CRT days when the WEGA was unmatched in too many models and today they have much more competence but the higher end products are usually the best.

Today i am going to buy a TV for the living room and the competitors are a High End Sony Bravia and a Samsung LED Tv

[dendawg]

Sony eh?
Betamax, Mini Disc, and oh this was good:
http://www.videogamecollectors.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=202685&g2_serialNumber=2

Are those diskettes? @_@

[Clownzilla]

Sony has become just another commodity electronics brand (with the exception of TV's). Here is a list of better quality products(and many time lower priced) than Sony products(Does not include game systems because due to significant differences in product types and tastes):

1. Walkman = Zune, Samusung Players
2. Cameras = Canon, Nikon
3. Vaio = Lenovo, Apple (if that's your thing), Asus
4. Video Cameras = Canon, Samsung
5. GPS (Sony GPS's are a disaster) = Garmin, Magellan, Tom Tom
6. Memory Stick = Any other non proprietary media standard.

Sony WAS my favorite brand years ago but I have found MANY other brands that give me a better quality product at a better price. Sure, Sony isn't a bad brand but they certainly are not better than the competition.

[tom]

dendawg asks: Are those diskettes?

3" CDs

[jdc]

I buy a lot of Sony stuff, and so does my friend. We aren't exclusive PS3 fanboys....but we're happy with the console, same as we were with our PSXs, PS2s and PSPs. Funny enough, he'll be the first to tell you that my Sharp Aquos beats his Bravia, and I'll agree.LOL

[UK Collector]

"extraordinary items". Sounds fun. Anybody have any idea what this means?

[Arcade Antics]

First hand in the store. Remember, I work at Sears and I see these returns daily.

"Way to make a guitar, Sears."

[jajaja]

Here comes another long post from me =)



At the store, they do! But for some odd reason, they start complaining about "the picture is not as bright as it is here". The problem here is that many customers expect the image to be EXACTLY like the one they see in the store, not knowing they need an HDTV signal. And even when one tells them, it is as though they forget or they don't pay attention... lol
Ye, if they dont have a HDTV signal the picture/broadcast on the TV will be worse indeed compared to they had a HDTV signal :) It is a pity that not everyone seems to realize this, since i guess there are several of people who got a HDTV at home, but they are still using a non-HDTV signal.

Does stores in general run their TV on the standard factory settings by the way?




Good question. At least we (as in the employees) can see what all other stores in the area have sold EXCEPT those that are independent franchises. Since they don't belong to the main company, data is not available from those stores. However, all other stores are *basically* the same (a few differences here and there, but nothing mayor), however it should be noted that the store I work in, and two other stores...the ones that make the most sales...suffer more from Sony returns than any of the other stores. Perhaps it's because of high volume sales, which could also mean high amount of returns.
Ok :) Ye, if Sony products are of a higher volume, i would guess there is a bigger chance to get more Sony products returned.



I don't know about other stores, like Walmart and Costco. Would like to find out, but I don't think management will tell me if I ask them "Hey, how's your return rate?" I think they will kick me out if the store :p
Hehe ye, maybe :) You dont have to ask for my sake, i was just wondering if you had any info at the moment regarding the return of Sony products =)



In the electronics division, around 60% sold is Sony stuff, give or take. Of course, this is because most of the items in stock are from Sony! This doesn't apply to the appliances division, since most of the items there are from Kenmore/Galaxy. But I am pretty sure that returns are based to sales volume: the more you sell, the more returns are to occur. It's pretty much inevitable.
Ye, that is true, i agree =) I think that a store that has 60% of one brand (in this case Sony) sounds like a pretty big share. I think that Sony has alot of different products though, so maybe that is why there are more Sony products in the store compared to other brands?



Here is an example, but be prepared to laugh like crazy! A camera is on special for $100, original price being $170. The item is purchased during this special and eventually returned. It is put up for sale again, but for $150, not $100. Why? Because they take into consideration the MSRP value instead of the special value! What's even funnier is when the price drops in price (normal price drop, not a special price) to the point that the normal price is cheaper than the "used" price! lol lol
Haha :) Good luck on selling that used (or atleast returned, was the camera used by the way?) camera to a higher price that a new camera, i dont know if there is anything more i can say about that case hehe =)



I'm guessing becuase of past experiences. Maybe they had an old TV or radio that worked great for years, so they recommend it for their friends and families. And I gotta admit, Sony stuff back them were infinitely better than the stuff they make now. But that's pretty much the same for all electronic equipment (IMO, all items made now are...finicky...they don't last as long).
Ye, i think that sounds like a highly plausible reason, i agree, that the older Sony stuff were better than the new one. My parents has a Sony vinyl player from the 1970s or so, and that vinyl player still works today. I was at my parents' house earlier and we actually tested that vinyl player today (or yesterday since the time is past midnight now) since my dad had hooked the vinyl player up to a new receiver that he had bought, and the vinyl player still worked fine =)

I wouldnt say that i really have THAT much experience with Sony products in general though, but from what i have tested out of different Sony products, i would say that i have been satisfied, at least from what i can remember =) The only serious problem i can remember having with a Sony product is that my Playstation 3 stopped reading discs a while ago. I was covered by warranty so it was no problem, except that i had to wait for like 4-5 weeks. But i think it was "ok", my Playstation 3 is working now at least =)

And maybe i had an old portable CD player from Sony that stopped working, but i can recall if that was a Sony CD player or if it stopped working :\ It was maybe 10-15 years ago. But other than this i cant recall any serious problems with the Sony products that i have tested. Maybe i have been lucky when it comes to Sony products and how they work? =)



YES! And what is even funnier is the fact that many buy $4,000 TVs just to watch ONE channel THROUGH THE AIR!! Then they come back to the store complaining that their crappy program looks like shit. -_- I will be honest...I sometimes want to laugh in their faces, but I don't just to be respectful.
It is a pity to hear that :\ I wish that people knew alittle better what they were buying and what they could expect from the product. Then it might have been less returns.

Hehe, paying $4,000 for a TV just to watch one channel through the air doesnt seem like a good buy indeed, then it would probably be more economic to buy a cheaper TV =) I can understand that you want to laugh at them then. What do you tell them by the way, that they need a HDTV decoder or something?



Although I refuse to sell TVs anymore, I do see the returns. I would say Vizio and Sylvania are the next in line for returns. A shame too, since those are good brands. Most of the times they return it for stupid reasons, or they simply don't know how to use it. Or people purchase it expecting the same quality of that of a more expensive TV. For instance, some return Vizio TVs (32" LCD for $500) just because it doesn't look as good as a $4,000 60" Sony LCD. People are idiots. lol
Ok, thanks for the info! :) Ye, i agree, it is a shame that people are returning the stuff :\
Hehe, it is a pity that some people dont know that a 32" LCD for $500 wont give the same picture quality as a $4,000 60" Sony LCD =( But hopefully they will at least know after they have returned the TV. I guess that all these returns leads to much "unnecessary" work?



It's not about the quality per se, but due to people's mentality. It's virtually getting married to a particular brand. Many of the customers say the "It's Sony, so it has to be good" because in their eyes, Sony can do nothing else than excellent products. But this is actually a blind perception because other companies, like Panasonic, Sharp, Samsung all make equal or better products. But oh well...that's up to the customer.
Ah ok, i first thought you ment that people were returning the Sony products because they wernt satisfied with their products. And with "satisfied" i mean realisticly expectations, like that the quality on the Sony products are poor in general, for example that the Sony TVs got poor a picture and other things compared to other TV brands. With "satisfied" i am not thinking about that people arent satisfied with a $500 US dollars Sony LCD TV because they expected the same picture quality as a $4,000 US dollars Sony LCD TV, because when that is the case, then i can understand that people arent satisfied. But after reading your other replies i see that this isnt what you ment, so i am sorry about the missunderstanding! :(

Ye, i agree, some people definitly got that mentality, that a brand (not neccessarily just Sony) is the only thing that they will get. I would think that the reason for this might be "valid" (or what i shall say) though. I mean, if someone have only had Sony products, and if they have good experience with Sony products, then i can understand that they will stick to Sony products.

Although, as you mentioned earlier, some of the older Sony products might be better than the new Sony products, so sticking to Sony (or any other brand in the same situation for that matter) products doesnt necessarily means that the people always will be satisfied with the Sony products.

And as you say, sticking to only one brand no matter what might result in that you wont get to experience other brands that might be just as good, or maybe even better, and perhaps even cheaper as well, and it might be a pity to miss out on things like this, i agree =)

But i think that the most important thing is that people is happy with their products. There might be better products out there compared to what people are buying, but as long as they are happy with what they got, i would think that this is the most important thing :)

Thanks again for the detailed answers! :)


(I had to edit some of the smileys since i am allowed to have max 10 smileys in a post).

[rbudrick]

I bought a Wal Mart Vizio TV and the quality is excellent. Sony makes them, btw. They cost about one third to one half what the equivalent Sony branded model does.

-Rob

[DeputyMoniker]

I guess people are just fed up with their overpriced and underperforming tvs and cameras finally!

Initially, the Bravia's caught my eye. Shortly after that, Samsung stole the show and for the past two years, as a contractor, I've recommended and sold nothing but Samsung LCD's.
As for the cameras, I have experience with only one. I bought a $250 Sony and returned it the next day. I had to use it to take pictures at OU (The Sooners) and the reds were coming out brown...it was a disaster.

[The 1 2 P]

Sony is definitely not experiencing the best of times right now. But they will bounce back eventually. I don't think the PS3 will bounce back as strongly as they would like but eventually it will increase it's sales numbers. As for the company as a whole, they just have to continue to ride this economic storm out, just like pretty much every other company is doing at the moment.

[DeputyMoniker]

Does stores in general run their TV on the standard factory settings by the way?

Not always but they may as well. In general, they give each set the exact same calibration. 90% of this, 80% of that...it isn't like they set each one to its individual optimal white level or anything of that nature. They either leave it at factory setting, or set it to what they determine to be standard floor model levels. It's a terrible policy because one set on the floor can look better than a vastly superior set that is right next to it. I can't imagine the cost of custom calibration though...so whatever. Consumers either have to do their homework or buy whatever the store sells them. What I don't understand is if I can take the time to calibrate my set so that the black levels are near black, why doesn't it just come from the factory that way? Why is ti that every time I look at a new set, the levels are so terrible? Is it that gray really means black to everybody else? Just start with black and if people don't like it, they can calibrate it from there. Makes no sense to me.

[Lothars]

Sony is definitely not experiencing the best of times right now. But they will bounce back eventually. I don't think the PS3 will bounce back as strongly as they would like but eventually it will increase it's sales numbers. As for the company as a whole, they just have to continue to ride this economic storm out, just like pretty much every other company is doing at the moment.

I agree but I do think that the PS3 will do better in the long run than people are saying, it's not going to die and neither is Sony,

They will ride it out.

[tom]

About the 'selling higher than the original price':
I used to work in a clothing store in UK, and when an item didn't sell, and it was like, let's say, original price GBP 9.99, my boss put up a sales sticker displaying 'original price GBP 16.99, now only 12.99', and guess what, people buy the stuff like crazy.

[jajaja]

Not always but they may as well. In general, they give each set the exact same calibration. 90% of this, 80% of that...it isn't like they set each one to its individual optimal white level or anything of that nature. They either leave it at factory setting, or set it to what they determine to be standard floor model levels. It's a terrible policy because one set on the floor can look better than a vastly superior set that is right next to it. I can't imagine the cost of custom calibration though...so whatever. Consumers either have to do their homework or buy whatever the store sells them. What I don't understand is if I can take the time to calibrate my set so that the black levels are near black, why doesn't it just come from the factory that way? Why is ti that every time I look at a new set, the levels are so terrible? Is it that gray really means black to everybody else? Just start with black and if people don't like it, they can calibrate it from there. Makes no sense to me.
Ah, thanks for the info! :) Ye, this doesnt sound like a too good way to show off the picture quality on the TVs in the stores :\

About the factory settings, that is a good question. I wonder how the TV manufacturers are choosing what should be the factory settings for a TV.



About the 'selling higher than the original price':
I used to work in a clothing store in UK, and when an item didn't sell, and it was like, let's say, original price GBP 9.99, my boss put up a sales sticker displaying 'original price GBP 16.99, now only 12.99', and guess what, people buy the stuff like crazy.
That is some really great business accomplishment, to make a thing sell more at GBP 12.99 compared to 9.99 GBP :)

[DeputyMoniker]

Ah, thanks for the info! :) Ye, this doesnt sound like a too good way to show off the picture quality on the TVs in the stores :\

About the factory settings, that is a good question. I wonder how the TV manufacturers are choosing what should be the factory settings for a TV.



That is some really great business accomplishment, to make a thing sell more at GBP 12.99 compared to 9.99 GBP :)

My wife used to work at Wilsons Leather. (They're going out of business now.) The very day they would get a new item, they would "mark it down." So the coat that said "Regular Price: $329.99. Now only $149." will, in reality, never be more than $149 at any time in its shelf life. They got me with that a number of times before my wife took that job.


That is some really great business accomplishment, to make a thing sell more at GBP 12.99 compared to 9.99 GBP :)

Six Flags did something similar to that. They had a theory, and IDK this may be a common business practice, but they believed that discounted season passes were hurting their business. They raised the price in the hope that the higher pricetag would make their passes more desirable to their target customers.

[jupitersj]

My Sony KD-36XS955 hdtv and Cyber-shot dsc-p72 camera are

THE BEE'S KNEES

I don't care what anyone says :bigmac:

Sony's audio department on the other hand is meh :shameful::shameful::shameful:

[jajaja]

My wife used to work at Wilsons Leather. (They're going out of business now.) The very day they would get a new item, they would "mark it down." So the coat that said "Regular Price: $329.99. Now only $149." will, in reality, never be more than $149 at any time in its shelf life. They got me with that a number of times before my wife took that job.
I guess that might lead to more sales, since then the customers think they are getting a good price :) Is it legal to do this by the way, to say that the price has been reduced when it hasnt been that, i forgot to ask about that earlier.



Six Flags did something similar to that. They had a theory, and IDK this may be a common business practice, but they believed that discounted season passes were hurting their business. They raised the price in the hope that the higher pricetag would make their passes more desirable to their target customers.
Like the discounted the price was too cheap, so the item(s) didnt look to attractive (or what i shall say) because of that, but when the price was higher, then the item(s) might look more attractive?

[jdc]

It's not legal to do that where I live, jajaja. *IF* you were to get audited for it, you have to be able to prove that the coat DID at one time or another sell "through the cash register" for the stated "regular" retail price in your store. There are chains of larger discount clothing stores that get slammed with it on a regular basis.

[jajaja]

It's not legal to do that where I live, jajaja. *IF* you were to get audited for it, you have to be able to prove that the coat DID at one time or another sell "through the cash register" for the stated "regular" retail price in your store. There are chains of larger discount clothing stores that get slammed with it on a regular basis.
Ah ok, thanks for the info! :) Ye, i think it makes sense that it isnt legal to say that the price(s) has been cut when they actually havnt been cut.